Hello everyone, and welcome to Shapers of Motor Marketing, our interview series with global leaders who are redefining how business is done and how brand communication is done. I'm Alejandro Máas, head of... for SAMI, and today I have the enormous pleasure of interviewing Fernando Fernández, Global CEO of Unilever.
Many of you have surely heard Fernando speak about Unilever's strategy and its performance. So here we want to do something different: for you to meet the real Fernando Fernández, the Fernando Fernández behind the role — who he is, and how he inspires and keeps reinventing the business. Hello, Fer, how are you?
Very well, thank you. A pleasure that you're receiving us here at the iconic Unilever House, which brings back so many memories from my Unilever days, and with a friend, of course. So this is more of a chat than an interview.
Thank you, I know, and thank you because I know you told me you don't do these things and that you were going to make an exception for us, or for me, and I really appreciate it.
Well, we want to get to know the real Fernando Fernández, and I'm going to start with a question that might make you uncomfortable or not, but let's go back to that Fernando Fernández who was 9 or 10 years old, back in our beloved Buenos Aires, in the Floresta neighborhood. What did that Fernando Fernández want to be when he grew up? Was he already thinking about being a global leader of a great corporation like Unilever? Or, for example, in my case, I wanted to be an inventor. What did that little Fernando Fernández want to do?
No. Hey, I never had it very clear what I wanted to do, and I always let things carry me along like that as a kid. I loved playing football, I was relatively good at school. I always liked math a lot, I always thought I'd go in that direction of economics, which is what I ended up studying.
My old man had a little bar right across from the courts. He wanted me to be a lawyer, so it was between things like lawyer, economist, and all that. But maybe a bit older, right? Like as a teenager, right? When I was younger, I don't really remember having something specific, you know, that was what I wanted to do. If I liked something a lot, I loved playing football, that would have been my dream, but I wasn't good enough.
Who among today's players would you compare yourself to?
No, stylistically, no. Not a Cuti Romero, no, not the ones from today, no, but I really liked Ramón Díaz.
And I played as a number nine, so I loved playing in that position, but there I was a goalscorer without talent, without the talent of a professional.
If today we did a DNA study of Fernando Fernández — not biological, but human — how would you say that DNA is composed? What is the blend of the different components that make up your DNA? And how much of that young Fernando Fernández who I met in the offices of Unilever Argentina on Fraga y El Cano is left?
I think the essence is the same, you know? And it's always linked to what your story is, right? My parents were immigrants in Argentina, I mean, my parents were Spanish, they were born during the Spanish Civil War, in a small village of 100 houses, and they immigrated to Argentina, and well, they made their lives there. My brother and I grew up in Argentina, and I think I always remember something my mom used to say to me, which was, she always said, 'Nene, if I had had your opportunities.'
And I think that in the essence of who I am, it's fundamentally that principle of trying to — in English it's called 'fulfill potential', you know? I hate not performing below what one can perform, you know? In life, in everything. So for me, the essence is always that middle-class kid who saw progress, you know?
Yes. And who was born into a family where the concept of progress — which is a bit what mobilizes the middle class everywhere in the world, right? — that idea of always a little better, and fundamentally that essence of fulfill potential. So I think the essence is the same. And well, I think that's the same way I behave in life, I behave in business, maybe that's the most important vector that has always defined me.
That's an interesting angle because some people say there's a professional positioning and a personal positioning. In your case, from what you say and from what I've always seen in you, what you see is what you get.
No. Look, I think one of the great reasons I've been at Unilever for almost 38 years is that I never had to disguise myself to work here, you know? The same guy you see on the street is the one who's here, I behave in a similar way and I never had to make trade-offs, you know? So that gives you a lot of peace of mind, it gives you, again, being comfortable in your own skin, right? It gives you that possibility of being yourself. I believe a lot in authenticity, and I think it's very hard to lead teams, to lead, you know? We have 120,000 people. It shows a lot when you're not authentic. So I think for me, authenticity is a very, very important value. And well, you get what you see, you know? So I think it was always a principle for me to be myself, right? Not having to compromise on those things.
And well, this is a company where it's a bit strange, right, that a guy who was born in Argentina — in, to put it nicely, in a corner of the world, you know? — is leading the company with a personality that was never very mainstream, you know? You know me. I was never very mainstream, and that says a lot more about Unilever than about me. But yes, I always privileged authenticity and being who I am.
Great. You have a long track record, correct me if I'm wrong on something. Four continents.
Well, I worked in Latin America, in Asia, North America, Europe. I'm missing Africa.
Seven countries, more or less. Argentina, Uruguay.
Yes. Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil, the Philippines, England, France, the United States.
The United States. When you look back, personally, what did each of those countries leave in you? Those moments that obviously, beyond the maturation and evolution as a person, as a family, with your family, moving along and building an international career, what things were being built in the Fernando Fernández that you are? That you kept being the same as always, but you're not the same as always either.
No, no, not at all. I feel privileged, you know? These things. I always say, you know? That the first time I took a plane, I took it with Unilever. The first time I saw a hotel, I went to a hotel, I went with Unilever. The first time I saw a computer was at Unilever, you know? So it's incredible, right? All the opportunities the company gave me, and probably one of the greatest things is the possibility of living in such different cultures, you know? So yes, different countries leave you different things, different experiences leave you different things.
I think that Argentina — growing up in Argentina and starting to work in Argentina — I think it gave me, you know? In Argentina it's that thing of rolling up your sleeves and finding a solution, you know? I think the volatility of the country, right? All the difficulties the country has historically had make one creative in finding solutions to deal with volatility, you know?
The Philippines, which for me was a very striking experience because I was one of the first Latin Americans to go to Asia to work, particularly in Unilever, but there wasn't such a big community in a country like the Philippines. It gave me — Filipinos are very special people, you know? It gave me first the concept of extended family, that feeling, you know? That they're always there for that extended family. And second, it gave me something incredible in terms of ownership and commitment, you know? The people, if you treat them well, they give you everything, and second, their commitment to the organization they're part of is incredible.
Brazil, I think, taught me to enjoy life, you know? I think Brazilians are very special, and you work hard, but at the same time there's always a very special joy in the country. I think that after that, developed markets are a bit, you know? When I went to the United States or to England or to France, I had to do it at high levels of the organization, and well, there I was very exposed to working with high intellectual levels and adapting to that situation. And then, well, they're societies that are very developed, right? Sometimes you realize why they're so developed — institutions work — and you learn about the value of institutions, even within the company, you know? So I think all those things really marked me. Again, I feel super privileged.
In Uruguay I was there a short time, it's probably where I'll retire, I have enormous appreciation for Uruguayans, I love going over there, but well, I worked less there, right? But yes, I think it's an enormous privilege to have been able to live in so many places, for my daughters to have grown up in so many places — it made them, right?, citizens of the world. And I think also, you know, traveling so much, living as an expatriate for so long, makes the family, the family core, become very united.
And at the same time it makes you very independent, you know? Because I would love, you know? To be eating an asado on a Sunday, I would love to go see San Lorenzo on Sunday, etc. And those things you don't have, you know? And you have to learn to find other things that connect you with the place where you are, you know?
What things are you finding here or in other countries? What were those things you found that connected you?
Well, it's always people. It's hard to replace the asado and San Lorenzo.
Yes, it's always, you know?
And well, everything has a lot to do with your tastes. In the Philippines, for example, there was a very interesting Latin community — Colombians, Ecuadorians, Mexicans, you know? We made a ton of friends, it was a permanent party. Here in England, well, the access you have to — it's like they say, 'God is everywhere, but he attends in London,' you know? Here you have everything you want, you have shows, you have concerts, you have football, you have — I mean, you live in the center of it. Same in New York, right?
In Brazil, again, that joy that's in Brazil. And I think there is — I mean, in every place, I always say, you know? When you live a life like this where you're — you have to choose between being happy or being miserable, you know? And I always chose to be happy, you know? And well, there are always problems, there are always things you have to resolve, but when you do this kind of international career, where you leave a lot of affections behind — you leave family, you leave friends, you leave rituals — you have to — you can have two visions, you know? One is to always be remembering what you lost, right? Or to be fundamentally enjoying what you acquired. And I, well, my wife, my daughters, I think we always found a way to enjoy what we acquired, you know?
Great. You talked about choosing to be happy.
Sometimes stress gets in the way in roles like yours. How do you deal with stress?
No, I feel privileged, you know? And I don't suffer with this kind of work. I keep doing it because I like it, you know? And I think I can have an impact, you know? There are people who are — you know? — who don't have a job or who have a job that doesn't satisfy them, you know? I'm lucky to work in something I like, with people who are spectacular, with young people who keep you young, in a company that allows you to learn all the time. And for me, that vocation for learning was always in me, you know? So obviously sometimes, you know, you have moments of tension, etc., but I have the ability to switch, to switch off quickly, you know? I get out of here, leave the office, switch, and well, I go home. I never talk about work at home or things like that because I don't think I have the right to disturb my family with those things.
And I think for me it's always a refuge of other things of interest to me. I'm a very curious person, I'm interested in many things, and work is very important in my life, but my life is much more than work. So I feel privileged, and the truth is I don't suffer with this, I enjoy it.
Great. Let's talk a bit about what stayed with you personally across different countries. Now let's not talk about countries, but let's talk about your career as a whole. If you do a flashback — I don't know if it happens to you, but sometimes I have mental photos, or today they'd be mental videos, of key moments. Diego Torres said, 'The moments lived, memories that will remain.' What are those? Speaking professionally now, in your career at Unilever, what are those moments lived, memories that will remain deep in your soul?
Uf, imagine, right? In the number of years I've been here, thousands, right?
