A Human-Centered Economy with Andrew Yang, CEO of Noble Mobile

Hey, it's great to be here, Caitlyn.

Yeah, we have four events in November. Brooklyn, Chicago, San Francisco, and LA. And it's in conjunction with Scott Galloway's podcast tour. So, if you're a Scott Galloway fan, he's actually going to show up to at least a couple of the events, depending really on whether he has to run to a plane or not after his talk. So, if you want to attend, just go to offlineparty.com and they're free.

Yes. Yes. Hence the no cap, which for the cool, you know, that means no BS. But for us it's like kind of no to brain rot, no to being subject to like overstimulation via your phone, which unfortunately is just about everybody. But Scott is an investor in Noble Mobile and one of Scott's passions is telling people to get out there, meet somebody, have experiences, maybe, in his words, I think, make a bad decision or two.

Yeah. And but Scott's an investor and been an awesome friend and champion to Noble because he believes in the mission and also he sees that that space, that telecom space, is ripe for innovation.

Wow, you should be a Noble ambassador.

What? The entire Noble family.

Let's go. You know, so I would run into people when I was running for president and they were their last name was Yang. And I was like, well then you literally have to be part of the Yang. So in your case, you have to be part of the Noble Gang.

Well, sure. I mean, we've been through a lot together trying to improve people's lives and when we realized that this is a way we could get money back into people's hands directly and also improve everyone's mental health, Zach and I decided to work together to try and bring this to market.

And it takes a minute to launch a telecom. So, we went around the country installing cell towers. No. We went and got a deal with T-Mobile to access their towers. But it's been awesome working with Zach because he's like a fantastic partner.

I would love to. So check it out. There are three carriers in the United States of America. Verizon, of which I was a customer for approximately 25 years, AT&T and T-Mobile. And then there are a bunch of other brands you've probably seen out and about. So it might be Cricket or Boost or Mint. And so the three big ones have the networks and the towers and then other people like us can cut a deal with them where we can access their spectrum and then make it available to our customers. So it's called an MVNO, which is a mobile virtual network operator. And you'll never have to know that acronym again but you get the idea. And so the premise is you pay $50 a month for unlimited data and that you actually get money back if you use less data.

Well, well, first Kaitlin, I'm going to put you on the spot. I don't know the answer to this, so we're going to find out together. Who is your wireless provider?

And for you alone?

Wow. Because like that's really high though. This makes me happy on a certain level, Caitlyn, because I was paying Verizon 145 a month.

Yeah. No, and it was just me. People like, just you? I was like, yeah, just me. So the average American, to also make us feel bad, maybe some of your listeners feel a little better, pays $83 a month. And so some people hearing this would be like, yes. Some people would be like, it's high. Some people, you know, it's lower than what they were paying, like you and me. But 83 is much higher than in other countries. Let's say Europe, it's between 40 and 45. Australia between 40 and 45. And so then you start to back into it if you're like, hey, is it possible that Americans are paying more for something than people in other countries? And you're like, oh yeah, that does seem to happen to us. And so, my hope, my goal is to return about half of that money that we're spending to us, to the American people. So, you got the pricing right. It's $50 for unlimited, which would save you and me. I mean, I've saved myself some money happily. It's $50 for unlimited, but we pay you $20 back based upon what data you use. So, our tagline is get paid to use your phone less or put your phone down because if you use less data, then you get more money at the end of the month. And then we put a 5.5% interest rate on any money you save with us so that it becomes like your friendly savings plan with this little angel on your shoulder saying, hey, maybe doom scroll less. Maybe look up more. Which is why I'm on this awesome program, you know, podcast because we're the progression to analog. We're kind of this hybrid where we accept that most people are going to have a device that they need connectivity for, but we don't want you paying for data you're never going to use and maybe you don't even want to use. And so the average American will save between $500 and $1,000 a year with Noble. I'm saving more than $1,000 because I was paying Verizon 140 a month. I also do want to observe as a numbers guy, kind of a geek. Verizon is paying a 6.5% dividend as a stock. And so though some of your listeners might own Verizon stock for that reason. So they're taking 11 billion dollars a year from customers like me and then giving it to their shareholders. So what I'm going to suggest is it's probably better to be a shareholder than a customer at this point. And so if you're a customer out there for Verizon, please do check out Noble Mobile because we will save you a ton of money and we will give you an incentive to get off your screen a little bit more.

Oh my god, you went the whole like...

So I have two big motivations, passions around this. I will say they touch each other at this point. So number one is I firmly believe that getting money back into people's hands will make them feel more at ease, more relaxed, happier, healthier. And I've lived this myself where when you are burning through your savings, it just stresses you out. It makes you feel really agitated. And then if your savings are growing because you know you're making more than you're spending, then you actually feel good at the end of every month or you feel like the sense it's really abundance versus scarcity.

And I'm very confident that someone's monthly balance sheet affects whether they're feeling optimistic about the future or they feel like the walls are closing in.

They really are. And one of the things that I've been championing is that polarization is bad and something that pits us against each other is bad. And then when you delve in, you realize, wait a minute, 90% of that is emanating from our phone.

Because it's not like someone from quote unquote the other side is going to run up to you on the street and yell at you. That almost never happens. But someone might yell at you on your phone or you might witness someone yelling at someone on their phone and then you naturally identify with one side or the other. So if you're trying to save people money and depolarize them, then Noble becomes an awesome vehicle to do that and I'm someone that gets attracted to impact. If I can return billions of dollars to the American public away from Verizon, sorry Verizon, but you know, whatever. And reduce our screen time, pay us to log off and touch grass. That's like a win-win-win.

I think Jonathan Haidt's book, The Anxious Generation, has been like a real catalyst. And I'm proud to call John a friend. And the fact that... So, it's funny. So, I was having dinner. I don't think John will mind if I share the story. So, I'm with John and be like, John, amazing that you wrote this best-selling book that's changed laws in 39 states and counting. Like, you must feel great about yourself. And then he said, Andrew, it helps to write a book on a topic that 50% of parents are freaking out about.

And I was like, it's so humble of him because like someone might be like, oh, I'm brilliant or something. But he's like, look, I just hit this chord that every parent is actually stressed about and I'm a parent and I, you know, I have a 12-year-old who's surrounded by screens and wants one, etc., etc. So I think Jonathan put a coherent argument around something we all sensed and it's one reason why the zeitgeist is now flowing the way that it is.

Say more, Kaitlin. This is awesome. I got to get some of your research, Kaitlin.

Oh, and parents are really addicted to their phones. They really are.

And this is one reason why, you know, so I talked to Jonathan about this and Jonathan said, look, like if you talk to John, it's like, hey, do you think adults have a problem with smartphones and whatnot? He's like, oh, yeah. But he didn't want to try and frame a public policy argument around something that, you know, like seems like it's somehow impinging into like, you know, like the freedom of people to do what they're going to do. But then he said, look, around minors, particularly around teenage girls, the data is incredibly compelling. And so then it becomes like a very different argument. You know, if you came in and said, hey, smartphones are a real problem. I'm going to be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then John was like, smartphones are a real problem for our kids, particularly girls of this age group, and that's something that we can 100% do something about. Then everyone's like, oh, yeah. And so he is brilliant and he chose a terrain that I think was more winnable.

Yeah. And as a society, you'd be like, okay, guys, we're like screwing up our kids. Like got to do something about that. But then if you go to adults and be like, hey, not only are we screwing up our kids with these things, we're also screwing ourselves or screwing adults. Then it gets into territory where it's like, hey, I'm allowed to screw myself up. You know, like there's like I'm allowed to pursue very self-destructive behaviors. Like I love my screen or whatever it is. Not to say, I mean everyone is very, very now increasingly ambivalent at best like about their screen.

Like in my case I'm like trying to get the word out about Noble Mobile. I'm like, I, you know, I do work and then my wife very generously says, Andrew, like you are on your phone so that the rest of us don't have to be. Yeah. Would be like the optimistic presentation. The pessimistic would be like, hey, Andrew, you're a screen addict like everyone else. To which I would say, yeah, like I very well like I almost certainly am because you know like I'm not immune to these things. But I passionately believe that we could and should be doing better not just for our kids but for ourselves.

Oh, well this is the tough part too because check it out. I'm like a diligent individual and so I have a bit of time at, you know, 9:00 p.m. and I'm like, oh, I'm going to do work on my phone. And then does that then like veer into mindlessness like really quick? Like yeah, it kind of does because that's like the genius and madness of these devices. Like you might go on intending to write something and then before you know it, you're watching some weird video, right? And that's the problem with it is that it's all about creating the intention, but there's, I mean, the devices at the end of the day are designed to be addictive. And the darkest thing is when you are in an app and you're like, what did I intend to do? Because I didn't come here intending to watch this video, but like watching it like what? It's like, oh, yeah. I came to respond to that email or that text, which obviously isn't even in that app. Or maybe in my case, like maybe I went on the app to post something and then I went down the rabbit hole for a little bit. By the way, too, I mean, I now thank my lucky stars that I was born when I was born because I came of age before all this technology. But like I, you know, I mean, our kids like geez, like I had a fully formed brain before I started frying it really. But like if you have like, you know, someone who's like an adolescent or whatnot and your brain's still plastic in that way.

Yeah. I managed to predate all of that which again I'm very, very thankful for.

Hey, I think if it works for you, then I'm thrilled and I'm kind of indifferent to whether they're, you know, charging you or whatnot. I mean, it's a very small price to pay in my opinion if it works for you. It's true. Is my attitude. So I am thrilled. I will say on a personal level, Caitlyn, like I looked for years to find an opportunity to save people money at scale because I'm convinced that Americans are under increasing financial pressure and then our jobs are unfortunately going to be dislocated by AI in many cases. And so I wanted to find something that made life more affordable for Americans. But if someone has a business where they're charging you and it's helping your mental health, then I'm sure it's well worth the investment for the people that make use of it.

Oh, yeah. And again, these are very much interconnected. But AI is coming. It's going to eat a lot of customer service jobs and driving jobs, a lot of other jobs. And my solution in 2020 was, hey, let's just start distributing economic value to people because AI is going to create so much value and if it's in the hands of a handful of people and the rest of us are just looking up wondering what happened, then that's going to be very nasty. And unfortunately, we're a living version of that. We are. And the reverse is like if the value was being distributed very broadly to people, then we can start engaging with things like, you know, why do we work? Like what do we care about? What do folks in our community lack right now? So that would be a dream and I can't give everyone $1,000 a month as I was running on, but I can save you $1,000 a year on your wireless bill. And it almost sounds like a joke when I say that, but it is true. And this is the thing that I landed on as like a very concrete step we could take that I hope leads to a more human-centered economy. And my dream is that imagine first of all you're paying way too much for your data right now. So if I can save you a thousand bucks a year, then that's fantastic. But imagine a world where if you got together and volunteered in a community or painted a mural or did something, then you got money on your wireless account or money off your bill. Like there, I mean, Noble Mobile is actually I hope like this first step in a more human-centered economy. Because I've and anyone who listened to me, you know, back in 2019 or 2020, we can't win a race against machines. Yeah, like it's dumb to think that. And I guess I'm glad on one level that we stopped even pretending that that was going to happen. Like because like a number of years ago, people would actually say that to me. It's like, oh, you got to retrain and reskill. It's like now everyone's like, okay, like that's not a real policy answer. And so what you have to do is design an economy that's centered around what we want and our flourishing regardless of whether that makes sense from like a strict capital efficiency standpoint because the capital efficiency goalpost is just going to keep running away from us. Yep. I mean and by the way like if you pursue this to its logical end then you realize we should build an economy around like nurturing and education or health and wellness or arts and creativity. Because those are things that we value and those are things that we would like to do more of.

And that we also need more of.

Oh my gosh, I love this question so much, Caitlyn, because like I was trying to figure out like which of these costs we could reduce. So check it out. Average American spends money on in order. Number one, housing. Number two, healthcare. Number three, education. Child care if they have it, food, fuel, transportation, media, and then wireless. So wireless lands at number eight on the list. And if you look at each of these, you think to yourself, by the way, I did sit there and think about which of these I could take a whack at. So, you know, in Mark Cuban's case, he landed on drugs, which is part of healthcare, and that's freaking awesome. Housing would be very difficult unless you had like zoning authority and a bunch of... I'm all for trying to improve these things. Education, it's a fascinating one. Food, tricky. Fuel, maybe with renewables. Transportation, interesting. Media, like has its, you know, sets of issues. And then I landed on wireless. It's like, could I make wireless cheaper?

for everyone, and it turns out you can, by the way, just go to mobile and we'll make it cheaper for you. But if you look at each of these, that is the direction we should be going because what's happening right now is that the staples of a decent life are getting more and more expensive. Incomes are not — incomes are, if anything, becoming more uncertain, and then we're being driven into distress. So there are a few moves you'd make. Number one, in my opinion, just put money into people's hands. Like, hey, guess what, you know, AI is here. We're going to be up to — we're already up to 85k ahead in GDP if you use GDP, which again is imperfect, but whatever you use it. So it's like 85k, it's enough to start distributing some value. AI is going to produce trillions in value on top of that. Then you try and lower costs, and then you try and find productive pursuits for people that again would be on these more human dimensions. So I want to do all of these things as quickly as possible because all of this stuff is accelerating.

Yeah, I mean, you can imagine. So one of the things that some political candidates championed, which I was generally very, very for, is like, hey, we should make education like cheaper and more accessible because, you know, why is it so expensive? And I was like, yeah, I'm into it. I mean, I was into it. I will say that one of the problems with that often in the conversation was like it was like let's make college free, and it's like, hey, news flash, like 35% of Americans go to college, 65% don't. So it's like you're just going to try and sub — like, you know what I mean? It's like you might want to broaden something a little bit. But trying to reduce the costs of things that Americans want — the main one should be housing. And the fact that we've let housing become so unaffordable in this country is like it should really piss us all off. I mean, the madness.

Yeah. I have no idea what — we have not doubled around. I have no idea what's going on either. I was like, how are these rents going up? Because like our incomes aren't going up, and like more and more people are like looking around being like, how am I supposed to afford this stuff?