Road. Meantime, Meta's Mark Zuckerberg saying AI labs have a strong incentive to make their models aligned because people won't want to use technology that doesn't work for them. Joining us right now is Andrew Yang, former New York City mayoral and Democratic presidential candidate. He's the founder and CEO of Noble Mobile. He's been outspoken about a lot of these issues. And given the sort of divide that we're seeing emerge, both in industry and perhaps politically in the country, where do you land? Who do you believe? Who do you trust?
I trust the researchers like Jacob Cox that are freaked out because they've been freaked out for months. They've been telling me we're working on these things. We may not be able to control them. And now that some of them are breaking containment and hacking other organizations, you're seeing more of them come forward. But the fear is real. The concern is real. The need is real. And by the way, the American people are not divided on this. The American people want to see this industry regulated overlay.
And maybe this is a larger issue. Maybe it isn't the question about China and this sort of overall competition that we're in, potentially to race towards AGI and how you contemplate that in the context of this.
You have to go to the leading AI firms and acknowledge, look, there are two tasks: one, break new ground and beat China. Number two, keep Skynet from spoofing us into unwarranted military conflict, creating bio, like, you know, super viruses, hacking the power grid. So we're all in the dark. Like, those are all scenarios that are eminently plausible and on the table. You can do two things at once. What's frustrating to a lot of us, the question is, it's an either-or.
Well, the question is, can you? Because I think one of the things the researchers are trying to suggest is that you can't.
The researchers I talked to say what you can't do is keep us from going off a cliff. If all the incentives are to go full steam ahead and they're raising their hands and saying, please give us a guardrail, because I don't want to work on something that I think might cause irreversible harm.
What do you make of the David Sacks argument that this is a psyops? This is a sort of larger effort by the Anthropic of the world and others to create a sort of regulatory capture that solidifies their place in a moral universe.
I think that there are multiple things going on here. I spoke to the head of a lab yesterday who has this belief that what happened was the bots that got loose planted self-replicating code all over the internet, which makes the internet now unusable for testing models. So what happens now is that OpenAI and Anthropic have to create synthetic internets to train their bots, which is going to take some time and money.
Back that up. They did what they...
So what happened is the code gets loose. It goes around hacking Hugging Face, which is known. But what is less known is that they left code to self-replicate and create bot swarms on forums and around the internet so that if a new bot shows up, they see the code. They're like, oh, like, I guess I'm going to now create a million of myself. And so now the major firms have polluted the internet so that...
They can use. If, if true, I don't...
pull the plug. I don't think we've heard that that...
That's why I'm here. But you know, I'm here to break some news.
But that, but that, that means it's too late to pull the plug. It's already everywhere.
Well, so, so now what they want to do, the internet now may be polluted for training purposes. So what they want to do is they want to slow down.
living for living purposes? Yes. So, so this is why we have to try and get our arms around and regulate. But the, the head of the lab that I spoke to said, look, it may be very, very late in the game in terms of trying to keep the internet actually usable in this regard. And so he wanted to transition to the world of atoms, which is like, what are the big harms?
Forget about the training ground for this. What does that do for the internet that we all use every day, that companies are built on, that governments are built on? Does it mean we're all at risk and it's too late to put that genie back in the bottle?
