These two people are two of the kindest people I know. And I think it's super important as you head into this tonight. People can be smart and sassy and sarcastic and funny, but truly the guiding principle of these two people is kindness. That they do everything they do is because they want their children, they want the next generation to have a better, smarter, more just world than the one we live in today.
So yes, neither are afraid to take a tech titan, a politician or an athlete to task or anyone for that matter. But I know that both of them do it from a true place of goodness and kindness. And that's why they got me here rolling out tonight when the last place I want to be is on a stage and I'd rather be in a bed. So let me bring out my two dear friends, Kara Swisher, Scott Galloway. It's their show.
Hi everyone, live from the Beacon Theater in New York City's Upper West Side. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher
Well done. Nice. That was good. We're in Toronto tomorrow. I want to hear it a little bit louder because the Canadians rock. Let's go.
Okay. Before we start, I want to send a big thank you to our title sponsor, Beehiiv. The platform for building an audience and a business around your point of view, from newsletters and websites to podcasts and communities. Beehiiv brings content all together in one place. Thanks also to our official sponsors Tanium and ODU. Thank you so much for sponsoring this.
We are taping this show for audio and YouTube distribution because kids love YouTube. So, you'll be able to hear it or watch it on Tuesday, November 3rd, election day, which is tomorrow, everybody, which is probably why we're going to be in Canada in case it goes bad. Okay, as we tour the country this week, we'll be sending out three special editions of our new newsletter filled with photos and behind-the-scenes content. Go to pivotshow.com to sign up.
We're going to start on a high note by someone I've been cheating on Scott with in a podcast point of view to talk about the election that's coming up. We're trying to find out who would be really great to do this. And so our special guest tonight is co-host of High Stakes, my other podcast. She's also a Grammy-winning former Secretary of State and a Scorpio. Please welcome Hillary Clinton.
All right. Are you ready to hear some real wisdom here? Hey, looking good with those glasses.
Yeah, I picked them up from somebody.
Yeah. Well, before you were born, I used to wear glasses like this and it brings back a lot of memories.
Good. Well, it works for you, I got to say. Don't you think, Scott? Scott's looking at us like, 'Oh, this is too bad.' We're also going to be announcing our 2028 presidential bid again because, you know, so let's get to it.
We're going to start asking questions about stuff. We've been doing a lot of this on High Stakes, which is our new podcast. And one of the things that was great, I was at dinner where Hillary was at, and she was laying down so many truth bombs, and they were so smart. I was like, I wonder if this woman was like valedictorian of something. And I wanted to create a podcast that was the world's greatest civics lesson and she has been everywhere and so we're going to ask her some questions obviously about the election. So let's start. Ted Cruz, Elissa Slotkin, AOC, Newsom, Klobuchar, you've met all of them. Who in that group is the real deal for the next 10 years and who's peaking too early?
Oh my gosh, we have an election tomorrow which is called the midterms. Remember that? I think I thought I taught you about that. And um
we'll put that at the end.
Yeah. And so we're leaping ahead beyond even that election. We have no idea. We have no idea. I think, you know, having run for president, you don't know until people actually get on the field and they start competing who's going to rise, who's going to fall, who's going to come back. I mean, it's an actually exciting prospect for me to believe that we're going to have a dozen really good Democrats running to compete starting, you know, probably after the first of the year,
which is a good thing for the Democratic party to happen.
It's a good thing. It's a very good thing. And, you know, we're going to have a bunch of governors. We're going to have people with a lot of experience. They're going to be out there, as we say, testing the waters. I think it's going to be not just good for the Democratic party. I think it's going to be good for the country because we haven't really had politics. We've had a cult in charge of our country over the last years. And I think we need to get back to having like real debates where people are exchanging views and audiences like this here at the theater get to make up their own minds. So, I'm looking forward to it.
Yeah. So, what are we going to wake up to on November 4th?
Yeah. I think we're going to wake up to a Democratic House and a Democratic Senate.
And why? Give your case, do a Hillary Clinton case.
First of all, I think that the issues that people are responding to are real to them. They are living them. They are seeing the results. So when we started talking about the affordability issue, that was something that most Americans could say, 'Hey, you know what? I can relate to that. My health care costs are going up. Why is that happening?' Well, maybe because this administration and this Congress have cut back on health care subsidies for the Affordable Care Act. Oh my gosh, my gas prices, if I use diesel, my diesel prices, they're all going up. Why is that? Well, most dramatically and recently because of the war in Iran or maybe also because of tariffs which get passed on. They are not some kind of deus ex machina that can be put out there with no consequences for consumers. So you go down the list and all of the efforts to distract attention, to make up other reasons why things were hard, to try to claim as we keep hearing from the president that, you know, we're living in a great time and people are saying it's not so great for me. It's not so great for my kids.
Well, it is good for the Trump family.
It's very, very good for the Trump family. And one of the smartest moves that was made in this campaign was to link affordability and corruption. And I want to thank not just Democrats, but you go back and look at the election in Hungary. And this is a bit of an aside, but think about what happened in Hungary. Orban had been in power for what, 10 years. And the opposition had tried to defeat him before. They were unsuccessful. He'd been corrupt for years. There were problems in the country, but finally Peter Magyar and his party made the linkage. Part of the reasons why you're having trouble is because they're getting rich. They're taking advantage of being in government to make themselves and their families rich and it's costing you money. And now I think you're finding in polls and research and focus groups when voters are asked, 'What do you think about corruption?' They say, 'It's costing me money. Somebody else is making a lot of money and I can hardly make my rent. I can hardly pay to fill up my gas tank.' It's the linkage.
So assuming, let's count our chickens and assume we take the House and the Senate and it's November the 4th. I would argue it's at least not a mortgage, dating, not a relationship. I think that it'll be a function of not them loving Democrats but hating us less. What do you think the Democratic Party needs to do or Democratic leadership? What are two or three things you think they need to do immediately such that we can turn this into something enduring going into '28 instead of just them flipping back in 24 months.
You're absolutely right, Scott. If the Democrats don't go in with an agenda and have the discipline to enact that agenda, then they're going to lose the kind of support that they're going to gain in this election. Number one, they ought to look at the affordability agenda, what's going to be in that. I think there are several things, one of which is health care costs, but there also can be even more fast-tracking of, you know, housing starts, taking a hard look at how we can, you know, shift the burden on fossil fuel costs from consumers to the oil and gas companies which have recorded record profits. So I think that there's a lot of good work being done right now to put together an affordability package.
Secondly, an anti-corruption package. You know, people have to feel that this issue of corruption is going to be front and center because it has been costing money. People have been benefiting at the expense of, you know, everyday Americans, consumers, people who get up every day and, you know, try to, you know, make a living. And so, what's that going to look like? Well, I think that has to be linked with closing loopholes. I thought the emoluments clause in the Constitution meant something. I thought it meant that you could not be the president of the United States and report a $1.2 billion, you know, income from making deals through crypto and other things while you were in the Oval Office. I'm amazed that we can't enforce the Constitution. And so we need legislation to close these loopholes to make it very clear.
And finally, they're going to have to do some investigations to get to the bottom. And you know, when Kara and I were on a couple of programs earlier today, The View and CNN with Anderson Cooper, you know, she was making the point, we still don't even know the damage that Elon Musk did through DOGE. We don't know what data was illegally taken, your social security data, your Medicare data, whatever data, tax data, where is it? What's it being used for? We need to get to the bottom of this. Not for the sake of investigating, just to kind of hold hearings and look like we were, you know, pointing fingers and scoring points, but let's find out what damage has been done so we can begin to repair it.
So, let's get to the simple breath test. There's a lot of races that are... You had been worried in a couple of our things. Yes, you're always like, Texas, we'll see. Even though Ted Cruz is clearly popular, right, and Ken Paxton is pretty low as a candidate. But there's a couple of races. One, obviously, the Michigan Senate race, which is taking up a lot of time. And Scott has a point of view on this, too. Democrat Haley Stevens, who lost the Michigan Senate primary to Abdul El-Sayed, flipped and endorsed Republican Mike Rogers over the weekend. I know, I know, I know, I know. So, yeah, that's, I was going to say, is she a traitor? Or is she just saying out loud what some moderates really think about where the party's going. Do you think it helps or hurts? I'll say Scott does have a point of view on this. So, first, oh, why don't you go first?
Let's see what the professor thinks.
I have a lot of disagreements with El-Sayed, but at the end of the day, we get to have a discussion with El-Sayed. Whereas Rogers, you don't get to have a discussion because he's an election denier. So, we don't even have a democracy. I would vote for another Democrat, but given the situation, I'm a supporter of El-Sayed because at least we get to have these important discussions.
Yeah. Yeah. And you think it's a distraction?
Look, I'm with Scott on this. I mean, the most important objective has to be to rein in Trump and to defeat as many Republicans as possible in this election tomorrow. And El-Sayed won the primary. I don't know what's going through the congresswoman's, you know, head about her feelings or her opinions, whatever it might be, but it is a sideshow because it has nothing to do with what's really at stake in the election. I'm sorry that, you know, people's feelings get hurt. I've won elections and I've lost elections and I have also lost elections where I got more votes than the person that allegedly won. So, you know, I think I know a lot about this. And my attitude is we need to win these elections and I am pulling for all of our Democratic nominees.
So, is there any election you're most worried about? I suppose Texas is the one that you've seen. You're always like, you never know with Texas.
Look, I think Ted Cruz is a fabulous candidate and I love... I also think Gina Hinojosa is a fabulous candidate, the woman running for governor of Texas. They are polling really well. They have a lot of energy. They are great both in so-called real life and online. They communicate effectively. Texas is just huge and there is so much infrastructure that the Republicans have built over so many years that they are, I'm telling you as we are meeting here tonight, working overtime to turn out every Republican voter and their sister and their brother and their cousins, and, you know, they're going to do everything they can to flood the zone tomorrow as well as what they have, you know, done up till now, right.
I just have a really hopeful, good feeling that, you know, Ted Cruz is going to pull it off because I think that there are enough Republicans and independents in Texas who will not be able to vote for Paxton, who is the poster child of corruption in Texas. And so I think that we've got a very good chance to win in Texas.
Win in Texas. So remember when all the CEOs lined up to kiss Trump's ring? That was yesterday. Mostly tech CEOs. The donations, the investment pledges, the ballroom donations from Apple and Nvidia. If Democrats win the House, how far should they go with investigations and subpoenas of these people? And by the way, Trump said he'd preemptively pardon Elon and also close aides. Now, is that something you think is going to happen? And how do you look at tech CEOs right now?
Well, I'm disappointed in a lot of them. You know more, both of you do, about them than I do, but they made their bets on Trump. And they have all different rationalizations, but most of them wanted contracts. Most of them wanted some kind of monetary reward for supporting him. So, you know, they've contributed and they've, you know, kept their mouths shut and haven't criticized him. I think that will begin to change if we win the Congress, because all of a sudden, you know, we get back closer to, you know, politics where guess what, you got to find common ground. You have to, you know, understand the other's point of view.
When it comes to what Trump said today, which was he was thinking about pardoning Musk and pardoning other people, he may well do that, but that doesn't mean they can't be called and forced to testify because just because they're pardoned for something unclear what does not remove the obligation to respond to a subpoena in the Congress. And in fact, some legal experts argue that if you're pardoned, then you have no protection.
You cannot take the Fifth Amendment because you have no jeopardy. So, let him pardon Elon and then let's call him in and figure out what he has to say.
A few more things. I'll get, we'll do the next question. A New York Times analysis of a decade of Trump's speeches finds he's getting cruder, more extreme, and harder to follow. I think they're talking about dementia, but they weren't quite going to say it. Let me bring up something you said in 2016 because you're like Cassandra, you were right about quite a few things. A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with the nuclear codes. Democrats got destroyed over Biden's age. And why isn't Trump paying the same price? Because we had talked about that you were dying.
Oh, I was, I died many times. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, you are looking at a reincarnation.
I don't know all the reasons why he has been consistently held to an easier standard than anybody else in politics.
Yeah. I mean his word salads are legendary and if you try to follow it's really complicated and difficult to make sense. But it hasn't until recently been covered particularly as indicative of his inability to really think clearly about very important issues.
So I can't explain that but I think we're catching up to it. It bothers me a lot that he goes in and out of what I consider to be coherence. I don't know whether he's distracted. I don't know if it's medical. I'm not going to speculate on that. But, you know, when you're making like, he's about, I believe, to make another decision as to whether or not to renew active attacks on Iran.
The consequences of that are so serious and they need to be thought through carefully and I don't think we have a commander-in-chief who is either interested in or willing to have that level of careful deliberation before making a decision. And so this is not just that he stands up there and he goes on and on and makes, you know, lots of non sequitur comments about all kinds of things. This is what happens inside the Situation Room. And I am worried that post this election if we do get back both the House and the Senate it's going to even further short-circuit his thinking. It's all going to be, here's what I believe, here's my, you know, impulsive take on this situation. You're going to do what I tell you to do. And I worry about that. But I hope that maybe with Congress in Democratic hands and the threat of investigations, you know, the people around him will be able to rein him in.
Oh, yeah. Stephen Miller is a real reiner in.
Well, he is obviously one of the main provocateurs. But there are other people who I hope will exercise some respect.
Yeah, that Pete Hegseth, that's going to go. I'm just saying.
At this point I'm rooting for Kristi Noem. I mean really.
Well, you'll notice he only gets rid of women.
Yeah, I did. So that's another thing,
But they're also incompetent. So I don't know how I feel about that.
But even, you know, I think, you know, outgoing Congressman Massie's already introduced articles of impeachment against Hegseth and it couldn't happen soon enough because he is really a danger to our country.
Yeah. Scott, last question. We talk a lot about young men and young people and a big belief of mine is that your success is a function of your willingness to mourn and move on. What can you tell or say to young people or anybody else who faces disappointment around how you get back on your feet? What gives you strength? How do you repair? How do you mourn and move on? What did you do? I don't know you, but I sort of know you and my sense is you're doing just fine. What? And honestly, I know a lot of people that hit a fraction of that disappointment and just get stuck for the rest of their lives. What advice do you have for people that face that type of disappointment?
Well, there's so many different kinds of disappointment in life. Everybody's faced disappointment and you know, I feel very much grateful to my parents because my mother had a really miserable life and was literally on her own by the age of 13. But she found it in herself to keep going. And part of what she really taught me by example and by advising was that everybody gets knocked down in life. You know, it's not always on a big stage where everybody can see you get knocked down. It's often in the most private, personal, difficult moments of your life when it happens to you, whether it's death, relationships, you know, work disappointment, whatever it might be.
And you know what she said to me over and over again. And I took it really seriously because I saw and understood how she'd been treated, how she'd been, you know, basically given up by her mother and father, abandoned, how she'd been mistreated by her grandmother, kicked out of the house when she was 13. How she'd gone to work in somebody else's house taking care of their kids. How she had hoped that her mother would love her at some point and her mother asked her to come back to Chicago because she'd been sent to California when she was like 8 years old and she came back thinking she could maybe have a relationship and her mother was, you know, basically just wanted her to work for... I mean just disappointment and abandonment and despair, but she found it in herself to get back up every day and to keep going and that's really what she conveyed.
To me, it was, look, everybody gets knocked down. Everybody gets disappointed in life, in love, in work, whatever it might be. And you got to make a decision every single day. Are you going to lie down there and give up on yourself and let people walk all over you, or are you going to get up and, you know, start a new day and make a new path for yourself?
It's a great piece of advice.
That's how I was raised and that's how I've tried to live.
Yes. You're a game gal, as my grandmother would say. We really appreciate it. I went out and got that present you asked me to get for Donald Trump. He's been talking about men's asses a lot.
It's very strange, but I think I found the perfect present for January when he leaves office because it's super cold. Okay. So, if you could give this to him.
