Knock knock. Democracy.
Hi everyone, live from the State Theater in Minneapolis. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
Great. Yay.
Before we start, let's thank all our sponsors. First off, the title sponsor, Beehiiv, the platform for building an audience and business around your point of view. From newsletters and websites to podcasts and communities, Beehiiv brings all your content together in one place. Thanks also to our official sponsors, Tanium and ODU, and for our supporting sponsor, Quint, who outfitted us today. It's actually very comfortable. Um, Scott, you look very in that sweater, by the way.
I'm just trying to sell sweaters. Um, anyway, uh, we also...
I'm going to turn you into a double lesbian.
Is there such a thing? What does that mean?
You'd have to go back to being straight, right? And then come back.
Yeah. Okay. No, you cannot. All the women, right?
We are in blue Minnesota. Whatever.
You want to hold on to these swing voters? Stop being such snowflakes. Let's have a sense of humor, right?
This is, you know what? This is woke 3.0. We laugh. That's right.
We laugh at you. He thinks things are funny now.
Except for Shane Gillis. And that's enough of him.
All right. We also launched our first newsletter this week, Pivot Post. You can sign up at pivotshow.com. All right, we're going to get in now to some of our main events here. And the first one is we hear you elected a new governor here in Minnesota, who I knew as a senator, who I talked to quite a bit because of tech issues. Um, this evening we have this very special guest joining us. Please welcome the winner of the 2026 gubernatorial election for the state of Minnesota, Governor-elect Amy Klobuchar.
There you go. I think they like it.
The good night. Yeah. I think they, I think...
Welcome to the State Theater. Now that I'm their first woman governor, it's my theater.
That was a Trump joke. It was a Trump joke.
Wait, are you the first woman governor?
I'm the first woman governor of the state of Minnesota.
And Keisha Lance Bottoms is the first woman governor of Georgia.
In fact, we're going to have a record number in January. 15 Democratic women governors, right? Which is amazing.
And maybe more. So they flipped...
...five governor's seats last night. Two we're waiting on. Very positive for a number of governors overall. And in the US Senate, if you guys are watching this, my workplace, we flipped seven seats with two more to go.
Um, and I remember you telling me when all the women senators do things together, right?
Yeah. Well, we have a dinner every couple times a year and we never talk about the male senators. Never. Everything that's said in that room, it stays in that room.
Yeah. And you do different trips right around the place.
Yeah. No, we have a... it's a good group, but it's about to get even better.
Yeah. And were you going to do the same thing with the governors...
...when we add Annie Andrews from South Carolina? I'm not going to keep dropping names, but it's kind of incredible what happened last night. It was like when Donald Trump said, remember when he said in the last week, when you go to the voting booth, picture me. When he said that, they did.
Uh, there's so many good memes about it right now, like...
No, no, no. My... hold on. Susan Collins' reign of concern is over.
In any case, um, I do want to share... let's focus on you. I want to share a quick stat. You won by roughly 13 points, the largest margin for a Minnesota governor since 1994 and the biggest margin for a non-incumbent governor for 44 years. Um, I actually texted her to come and she's like, 'If I win,' I'm like, 'Oh, stop it.' Thank you.
Well, I want to establish that I accepted this gig before we knew how good last night was going to be. Right. Absolutely. Because I like you guys so much.
I know. So, lots of Democrats are writing the postmodern post-midterm memo this morning. What is in yours besides Trump is upset?
I mean, clearly it is one moment of celebration that everyone deserves after what has been going on here. And you think about the voters. These weren't just city voters or they weren't just suburban voters. They were also rural voters. The fact that we flip states like North Carolina and South Carolina in the Senate as well as the state of Maine, and then you go down to Texas with Telerico, and you go to Ohio, and you go to Kansas and Iowa, our neighbors, because these guys know that I know the difference between hawks and Hawkeyes. Um, and then what we believe is about to happen in Mississippi where a candidate is ahead, and of course in Alaska. So my memo would be: one, you know, we have to look at what happened here. We had a bunch of rubber-stamp Republicans that did everything Donald Trump asked them, and last night they ran out of ink. Um, so that was the first thing. But the second thing is as we go forward, yes, there has to be a check on power and a protection of people's civil rights and liberties, but there also has to be a reminder of why these people who voted for Donald Trump, especially in these red states, switched over. And a lot of this was patriotic to them, because they love our country, but it was also because costs have been up, chaos have been up, corruption has been up. And so when I think of the practical things that we can do immediately in the Congress, I will be here with you guys doing everything good for Minnesota. But the things that we need to do are: one, to make sure that people can afford health care. Um, when they refused to re-up the Affordable Care Act tax credit, 8 million people have been tossed off their health care nationally. That's between now, since that happened. This is...
No, no, we could do it this year.
I hope we do, but it also may be next year. The Medicaid cuts, which are decimating our hospitals throughout the country, ending the war in Iran, um, when we have now voted against it 14 times. Um, and then doing something about these tariffs. You know, one soybean farmer in southern Minnesota said to me, it's like a perfect storm of ugly between their input costs up, their markets drying up. So, there are some real deliverables that I think have to happen. Now, of course, you still got this guy in the White House, so it's going to have to be the Congress pushing and pushing, but people have to remember, yes, accountability, but they also have to remember that what people voted on were the fact that they did see his face. They didn't see his face on that big beautiful ballroom. They didn't see his face as he wants on the Kennedy Center. They saw his face on the gas pump. They saw his face on those premium increases. So, I do think it's really important that we focus on that when we go into next year, that we remember why we won this election.
You know, one of the things they're talking about revenge or retribution, but accountability is not retribution. It is accountability. Right. I mean, that's the thing. Um, when you think about that, a lot of different Democrats are debating. People are very angry at what has happened, but a lot of people say there's no use in impeaching him. There's no use of using your time to do that because, as Scott has said, the Democrats are paying rent, not the mortgage here. They haven't sort of closed the deal yet. So what is the balance of doing that because there is a lot of possible criminal behavior here?
Well, there obviously has to be hearings about what has happened here. And you think about, we saw this firsthand with the civil rights violations and of course the horrific killings of Alex Prey and Renee Good, but also just people being picked up because of the color of their skin and the fact that they put 70 billion extra dollars into ICE, which made it bigger than the FBI or the Marines. On those kinds of things, which we have done as Democrats in spotlight hearings on our own and called in witnesses, I think you are going to see that, and there has to be this kind of accountability, and the new Congress is going to have to decide that balance. But I did want to make the case first that what people are looking for immediately is some relief when it comes to what's been happening with costs in their lives.
So, ending the war in Iran, affordable health care, geopolitics, and then domestic policy that quite frankly is an expense. Over the long term, it might save money. But as you move from a legislative to an executive role, people leave and come to a state largely for economic growth. That's the swing. And the reason why Texas and Florida are doing so well is they have been very pro-growth. And I apologize, I'm a glass-half-empty kind of guy. So I'm going to go to the...
You're exactly right about the economic growth issue. So...
...but if you were to look at the migration patterns, generally speaking, a reductive analysis would be cold and high-tax states are losing populace to warm and low-tax states that are considered, quote-unquote, pro-growth. What is the executive for Minnesota? What is your plan for actual economic growth? Because if you look at the two groups that swung hardest to blue, I would argue we're renting them. We don't own them: Hispanics and young men. And they mostly vote based on who they think is going to put more money in their pockets. So as an executive for the great state of Minnesota, what specifically are your plans to inspire growth, attract industry?
Sure. So from day one, as my constituents here know, I ran on a growth agenda. Um, we have lagged, as you've noted, like a lot of states in the upper Midwest have been lagging in the last decade. Uh, but this year actually we did have... but we've booked sixth in the country for growth. I hope it stays. It's the first two quarters we've gone up 3%. Um, but this is how I look at this. Number one, we have to cut through the red tape. Things were put in for good reasons, but it's too hard to start a business, too hard to expand a business. So that's one: really having a state government that matches the drive and ambition of the people in our state. We have 18 Fortune 500 companies in Minnesota. Our per capita is way up there. We have 500,000 small businesses, and to make sure that we can keep those businesses, expand them, is number one. Number two, workforce. Um, I always would say on the presidential debate stage, we're not going to have a shortage of sports marketing degrees, thereby losing the support of everyone with a sports marketing degree. Uh, but we are going to have a shortage of nurses and doctors and electricians. And as we look at this, plumbers, as we look at AI especially, uh, being very aware of that as a governor, as an executive, it's going to be really important to look at the AI-proof jobs, the good-paying jobs that are out there, uh, to get student achievement up in our classrooms and screen time in the classrooms down, to make sure that we move to more apprenticeships. I've pledged to double the number of apprenticeships and to look at some of the things like the University of Minnesota has done in Rochester, home of the Mayo Clinic, uh, where there... thank you, one person... uh, where we have a four-year degree that you can get in three years with all the credits, and then they work in the health care field at the same time. Looking at that, rolling that out across our state is very important. And just looking at what people need to be able to afford their lives. We need more housing in Minnesota. We're 100,000 units short, from apartments to single-family homes. Working with the private sector, I pledged to get those 100,000 units.
But that's also a federal thing, too. That's an idea that...
Well, the road to housing bill that we passed with the interesting duo of Tim Scott and Elizabeth Warren. Um, but that bill is a major housing bill that will actually pay that way for more modular housing, which is less expensive to build. Manufactured homes are like where my husband grew up in what was called a trailer home. Those aren't your grandpa's manufactured homes anymore. And looking how we can reduce the cost of mortgages and rent, um, as well as bring down child care, and we already talked a little bit about health care costs.
So you spend so much time... by the way, Tim Scott and Elizabeth Warren are always out partying in DC together all the time. You can't stop them.
Happy hours. I mean, after parties are a little embarrassing, I'll be honest with you, whenever I run into them.
Um, but you spent almost 20 years in the Senate. Uh, what do you know now about Washington that makes you glad or sad to leave it? And you know, you and I have talked a lot about tech legislation, and I'd love to know how you feel about... you tried and tried, and you know, you're like this, 'Yeah, Kara,' and I'm like, 'No, you shall not.' It was like it went back.
You've done endless podcasts about my very excellent bill in a minute. I would say you were the strongest voice, one of the strongest voices, if not the strongest.
You were... um, what do you think? How do you look at that? Because you were there with privacy, with algorithms, with all manner of things, and now it's come home to roost with data centers, with fears about AI, with public opinion against it. At the same time, we can't completely ignore this as a governor. So how are you going to operate as a governor differently? And what are you gonna miss about Washington?
Oh, like Ted Cruz. I mean, I don't know. So he actually does a lot of the tech bills with me. The only AI bill that's passed was our Take It Down Act. But, uh, the truth is, is that I really, just stepping back on that front, um, I actually love my job in the Senate. I'm third in leadership. But looking at what happened in our state in the last year, from losing our beloved speaker of the house, Melissa Hortman, the kids gunned down in Annunciation Church, ICE, um, and the serious fraud issue, I decided I love my state more, and that's why I decided to run for this job. Um, and as I look at leaving the Senate, you know, you always want to leave a job when you're on a high point. I think, you know, gaining nine seats potentially, I'm feeling pretty good that I can leave it in good shape, as well as with our new senator, Peggy Flanagan, that is coming in. And, um, so I, you know, so there's that. But when it comes to tech, yes, and I've thought a lot about this because areas that I've led in have been on taking on pharma, on some of the agriculture rural issues, and then of course on this. And there has been a growing group of people. It actually used to just be like me and, um, and Ted Cruz, and, um, and there were a few others that were doing it. And now, you know, you have got Blumenthal's always been really strong on it. Um, we've got a number of other senators that have gotten activated, and there have been a few people that stood up in caucus that have said, 'Amy said this a long time ago.' You did. And the idea that we need some guardrails, um, when it comes to, yes, AI, and that is something I hope we can get done, at least a bill included in the end-of-the-year must-pass bills, um, that would require the companies...
Well, there's that, yeah, but would require some version of this that would require the companies, and they now wanted a number of them, um, to have to get their products and their models verified before they can go forward, that they have to alert the government when there's imminent harm, right? And there is some growing support for that. But then of course Donald Trump truths it. That's the verb they use. Truth Social it. Um, and then everyone in the past, not next year, says, 'Oh, um, but I don't think we can wait on that.' But then you get to the next level, which is the privacy legislation, the protecting kids online. Um, and I just think over time too many people said, 'Trust me,' and it went along and along, and now there is growing concern. So that there is the actual possibility. I hope I've left them some products that they can pass. Um, and I'll come back.
Can you do anything as a governor in that road? Obviously.
Oh, yeah. So as a governor, we have... um, Minnesota has actually been a leader. We were, you know, one of the few states that said no, you can't use AI in political ads. Uh, that pretty much held during the months, at least the ones that were on TV. It's not to say we had a lot of great ads. I had $16 million in negative ads. And thanks to the person, when I walked in, said, 'You look so much better in person than you do on TV.' Those were negative ads. My big joy last week, by the way, was when Uline, this guy out of Wisconsin, the billionaire, decided to put his last million in radio. I'm like, great. Doesn't have my face. The people of Minnesota spoke when they outdid me two to one on ads, and they said we are not gonna let a Packers fan buy the Minnesota governor's office.
Um, he spent 9 million. He spent 9 million.
No, there was hidden money every which way with this guy. So there was a lot of negative ads that ran. It was more than that. There was also, I bet people in this room got it, false flag flyers and mailers going in that were trying to hit me to say I wasn't left enough to try to suppress the vote. Um, and I did appreciate the progressive group that put a post out with one of the mailers and said, 'Look, this is false. You are trying to suppress the vote from the left, and guess what? We're the only ones that can say this stuff about Globe.' So anyway, it was a really bad scene, and I was thankful that Minnesota had actually banned AI in these political ads, and they also have taken other measures and have a data center bill that can be improved. For instance, we've got to ban the non-disclosure agreements and do a whole bunch of stuff later. But they did, on a bipartisan basis, pass a bill that was more progressive a year or two ago that I think is helpful. So there is just a number of things where Minnesota and the states have acted. And I think one of the ways you get the feds to finally do something about privacy and what kids are exposed to and, you know, selling fentanyl online and these horror things is when the states act, because the companies that lobbied against these for a long time don't want a patchwork of regulations. And that's right. It would be much better to have federal laws on this stuff. It's the best...
That doesn't supersede good...
That doesn't... but the point is you need some kind of federal laws, and I hope that this is the Congress that will finally get it done.
So data centers, just such a hot topic, kind of, you know, triggers a lot of people. Um, I just want to take the over-under here, or the under. I look at Minnesota, and of course there shouldn't... I love the legislation, no NDAs. People never want the factory or the nuclear power plant, but the reality is every state needs economic growth to pay for wonderful things like food stamps and Medicare and Medicaid. I look at Minnesota and I think, okay, you got power, you got land, and it's cold up here.
Really? I mean, it's been a great fall, right? So, yeah. Okay.
It strikes me that Minnesota is hand-in-glove for data centers and to tack onto some of that AI growth.
I think so much of this is, first of all, to have local control. So the localities are going to be able to make this decision. The second thing is to make sure people don't get hosed on their electric bills, that the water is protected, that there's... I mean, these protections, that's what we've learned from other states. So the way I look at it, the fact that we... I think we have 61 of them, it's not like some of these other states. And the fact that we put this law into place, that obviously can be improved, is a good thing because we have learned a lot from what has gone wrong, and it clearly has gone wrong in a lot of other states. So that's how I look at it, and I think there's a general sense of that in our state. Can I just do a quick follow-up? Because now that I find that people get a lot more honest once they're leaving office. Um, can you...
I know, I hate my life less and less every day. Um, give us some Republican senators that you really enjoyed working with, that you think are good people and good lawmakers.
Sure. So I have worked with many over the years, and I have worked with my neighbors a lot, which has included Senator Hoeven and Senator Cramer up in North Dakota. We did a lot on infrastructure, and they call it Fargo-Moorhead. I call it Moorhead-Fargo. Um, between our states, I've done a lot with Senator Rounds, who cares a lot about Native American issues and a number of other things in South Dakota. Um, Senator Boozman and I... I still hope we can get a farm bill done by the end of this year because we need to fix these SNAP food nutrition program shifts that are coming up. Um, I have worked well with a number of the women senators, including Senator Capito, who just got reelected last night on eating disorders. I can go through the list of them. I do really... and then from the past, I was going to lead with this, but then I thought you were going to say you only mentioned a senator who isn't alive, but I had a really good relationship with Senator John McCain, and he taught me a lot when we traveled around the world. We would be in rooms with foreign leaders, and they would only look at, say, him and Senator Graham, and then he would speak, and then they'd look at Senator Graham. And John McCain would always say, 'Senator Klobuchar is the lead Democrat on this trip. She will be speaking next' in this room of, you know, 20 male leaders. And at the end of his life, Cindy invited me and my husband to see them at the ranch. He was in the last few months of his life, and he was still irascible and making hilarious jokes about what had happened with what the Ukrainians had given us when we went to Donbas on the front line in the Navy and confiscated the weapons. And he goes, 'Where's that machine gun that the Ukrainians gave me?' But he... where is that machine gun?
They took it away. They took it away. They took it away.
And so the true story was that he and Senator Graham and I were in the middle of a blizzard, because I only like to do things in blizzards, after the original invasion by Russia in Donbas on New Year's Eve. Tons of cameras. Before Zelensky, the former president Poroshenko of Ukraine, and they gave John McCain a machine gun, Ukrainian-made, and they gave Lindsey Graham a revolver. And we're on this huge stage, and they gave me this little box that had a dagger in it. And I'm like... so John McCain, to his credit, complained to the president of Ukraine the whole way back in this black helicopter about how this was sexist. And by the time I got to the hotel, they gave me a revolver. And so our last visit, when he can hardly talk, he's still making jokes about the situation. But the very last thing he did is he couldn't speak at the end of the meeting, and he had me take out one of the books that he had written, and he pointed to a sentence, and he said, 'Always remember this.' And this sentence says, 'There's nothing in life more liberating than fighting for a cause larger than yourself.'
Um, and so, you know, that was what he stood for for me. And so I have learned a lot from him, and really, people from both parties in that place. And I believe that there's so much more good we can come out of Congress. And this election was about hope over hate. This election was about people who believed in our country versus divisiveness and ugliness. And when I saw those people cheering in Austin, I don't know if you saw the video.
I know. It was like unbelievable. Austin, Texas, not Austin, Minnesota, because...
It's raining there right now. So we couldn't... we would be doing that, but it's raining.
Okay, we need to take a quick break. We come back more with Governor-elect Amy Klobuchar.
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Scott, we're back, recording live from the State Theater here in Minneapolis with more from the state's newly elected governor and current senator, Amy Klobuchar. Um, this past winter, the federal government sent thousands of agents into Minnesota. DHS called it the biggest immigration operation ever. 3,000 people arrested, dozens of kids detained, two US citizens killed. Talk about... now just agreed. Um, but today, I can't ever say his name, Markwayne Mullin said deportations aren't going to stop. He was very aggressive, which was an unusual thing to do today. Um, what, how are you thinking about this going forward? Will they pull back? Do you feel they're going to continue?
