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John Hayes
Founder & Advisor, PURE STORAGE INC

Collision 2015 - Lew Crine of New Relic, John Hayes of Pure Storage with Diane Brady of DBMedia

🎥 Jan 04, 2016 📺 Collision Conference ⏱ 21m 👁 426 views
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About John Hayes

At a 2015 Collision conference panel, John Hayes, co-founder and chief architect of Pure Storage, discussed enterprise technology and his company's approach. Hayes stated that Pure Storage's strategy was to "come out guns blazing" to challenge the idea that products could not be significantly better. He noted that the company hired a CEO because he and his co-founder are "tech people" who needed others to run sales and other functions. Hayes described Pure Storage's hiring process as testing skills over experience, explaining that they did not want people with "lots of storage experience" due to a perceived acceptance of the status quo. Hayes argued that enterprise and consumer products are becoming more similar, with enterprise purchasing decisions now being "bottom-up" and purchasers being 54% through their decision before contacting a salesperson. He said Pure Storage designed its product to be set up without a sales engineer, comparing it to the first iPhone's self-activation. Hayes also stated that CIOs spend 90% of their time on operations and that Pure Storage aims to reduce that to allow more time for innovation. He predicted that at least half of the top 10 software companies in five to ten years would be newer cloud companies, and expressed a desire for Pure Storage to be among them.

Source: AI-verified profile updated from John Hayes's recent appearances. Browse all interviews →

Transcript (43 segments)
H
Host0:00
Junkies, I want to start. We have a terrific conversation, but I think it's interesting to just talk about enterprise tech because I think one of the impressions that a lot of us have is it's either those are the people where you put on a suit and you start talking about ultra low latency and stuff like that, or it's just upgrading your picture on LinkedIn and bringing Twitter into the companies. It's obviously something very different. All the disruptive technology that we've seen transform the consumer space, I think, is really accelerating right now in the enterprise space. It's very hot. We have two of the hottest men in the industry with us right here to help us in the enterprise tech space. They will live up to it, I promise. We have Lew Cirne here, CEO founder of New Relic, and John Hayes, co-founder and Chief Architect of Pure Storage. Solo, I'm going to start with you. You started New Relic back in 2008. This is the longest, I think you're a serial entrepreneur. You've been in this role. Give me some sense of what prompted you to start it and what are you seeing right now in the market.
L
Lew Cirne1:15
Sure. So essentially, you mentioned it's kind of the longest run with this. I definitely founded the company with a goal of making this a company that had real durability and hopefully outlast myself. And that's rare in enterprise software. But at the core of it, I think we have a chance because we're at such an interesting time right now. You know, people spend so much time in front of software. It's increasingly becoming just how we spend most of our lives, and life's too short for bad software. If you're spending eight hours a day at work using technology products, it shouldn't be painful, it shouldn't be like taking medicine. It should be a joyful experience. Certainly the consumer companies get that, and I think that the traditional enterprise software companies don't understand that. It's not their DNA. So there's this opportunity for companies that get how important great software is to making people's lives better and to have an impact. At New Relic, our mission is to help companies deliver great software experiences for their customers, and we do that by measuring everything about the software. So we think it's a big mission and we have an opportunity to have an impact.
H
Host2:23
Talk a little bit about what's different about the enterprise. John, I want to go to you a second because you with Pure Storage were very much looking to disrupt behemoths like EMC. Give me some sense as to, do you come out guns blazing in that situation? Do you come out in stealth mode? Because one of the things about enterprise is you've had big players like Cisco, Oracle, SAS. What was your strategy and tell me why you also brought on a CEO, not call yourself CEO?
J
John Hayes2:56
So our strategy was come out guns blazing, and that's because fundamental air product is really simple. And what we had to do was break through the idea that the products could be much better than they are. It took a lot to explain that, much more than you would think, because expectations say 10 times deeper. Well, everyone says that, so the question is how do you prove it? You have to say it over and over and over again and basically change the expectations for what people want. In our case, in storage, which hadn't changed for almost 20 years before, five years ago there was this great blossoming of new technologies and no one was prepared for it. It took a lot to push that into the market. We hired a CEO because, well, I'm not qualified. I'm a tech person. My co-founder John Colgrove also a tech person. We knew that we could push the implementation, build the products we wanted to build, but we also needed much more talented people than us to run the company, drive sales, drive all the functions of what we need to do to make our vision actually work.
H
Host4:08
Think about with enterprise tech, it immediately folks being a Larry Ellison, a John Chambers, all the people who essentially were maybe 1.0. Give me some sense of what in fact is different when you're building an enterprise company these days. I mean, is it a bit of a false divide? You talk about delight. I mean, hey, everybody's turning the enterprise. Facebook has an enterprise strategy. I mean, what's not enterprise?
L
Lew Cirne4:36
Well, I think what's different these days about what you see in enterprise leadership is that you increasingly see product-centric enterprise companies. I think of New Relic as a product for his company.
H
Host4:47
Hasn't that always been the case?
L
Lew Cirne4:49
No, no. I mean, I think a lot of the most successful companies, particularly in the 90s and early 2000s, were channel-centric, sales-centric companies. That's why you saw all these acquisitions. These big companies would just acquire stuff to shove through the channel, and they really didn't care that much what the products were, whether they fit together. Whereas New Relic, we have five different SKUs. We built them all from scratch, lovingly made, like organic made software, right? Artisanal stuff. No, but we care about the details. It's in the core of what we do. I go away six weeks every year. Six times a year, I take a one-week coding retreat, which is a lot for a public company CEO. But I feel like it's a way for me to help think and stay connected to the technology, and sometimes ideas come out that drive the product direction. That type of leader wouldn't be running public tech companies 10 years ago, but now I think the market's recognizing that the innovative companies, it's not one good idea. You got to have a system that continues to generate great innovations on an ongoing basis.
H
Host5:53
One of the concerns every company has is, are you going to be around six months from now? So they all love the idea of the young startup, but they want clarity and predictability. How did you sort of get in and start to steal business away from bigger, more predictable companies? Obviously there's the advantages. Was that sufficient? Anything you think that is also important?
J
John Hayes6:15
So early on, we had to market on the things that were much, much better. Almost every company we sold into in the beginning had some very specific pain that they couldn't solve any other way. So that was the baseline. It was sort of the classic crossing the chasm, and it just takes time to build up a reputation. One of the differences with enterprise products is there's a great deal of trust involved because if you fail, you can take out their entire business. So you can't fail, and you have to earn a reputation for actually working. That's just a slow process to build up, and there's no way around it. At the same time, we had to make that real. We had to focus on the inside and get better all the time because every single failure is magnified much more than an incoming company.
H
Host7:07
So is this a failure magnified? Give me a sense of even just how you hire or if you hire differently. I think for example, when you're selling into the enterprise, I would think that industry expertise is more important. I don't know even if talent is a bigger issue. I mean, it's easier for me to tell my mom, hey, I work at Google, than I work at a company where I then have to add a sentence as to what they do and then add another sentence as to what that is. Lou, what's been your experience?
L
Lew Cirne7:35
I think there's a benefit to it actually, because there's a filtering or self-selection process of people that actually interview at New Relic. By and large, they know who we are and care about what we do. That's a core requirement for us. That's more important to us than the resume. Are they passionate about the mission? Are they going to bring their very best? I speak all the time at my company about how for me, it's important for me to love my Mondays. I want to look forward to doing what I do professionally, and I want that to be true for all of our employees. If you love your Mondays, then you're not distracted by things like what's going to happen in the more that's outside of your control. That's true in every company, but basically there are these well-known consumer companies that are just going to attract people that are just looking for a job. They go to the most commonly known companies.
H
Host8:33
What's your advice? You're an enterprise tech company, you're hiring. Any sort of thoughts as to what you would do even differently or what you've learned about hiring for this space?
J
John Hayes8:46
So there's actually a really big divide in our company. Most of our sales staff is from storage companies, coming to storage companies. Almost none of our engineering staff is. We look for, we actually test skills and then fit. It's a very abstract process. It's kind of like more like an SAT than looking at someone's resume. One of the nice things about being in the middle of a technology change is everything is new anyways, so we actually didn't want people with lots and lots of storage experience because they're not going to disrupt. They have too much of a sense of the status quo being okay. Maybe it's my own bias. I'd never worked in storage before this either, and the structure of the product and the kind of company we wanted to build was very, very different. So you need different people to actually make that happen.
H
Host9:37
It's interesting. We've seen so many places want to be tech hubs. We've got downtown Las Vegas, Ireland, Silicon Valley, Silicon Alley. Do you find there's any, does Silicon Valley still have a lot of natural advantages when it comes to the enterprise tech space? Or less so? I mean, I feel like we should have the Invest in Canada folks here by the way, because we're all Canadian and we're not talking about Canada. So there you go, out of the way. But give me some sense as to what you think the Silicon Valley equation is, because that's essentially been the mecca that everybody thinks about in the consumer tech space. Any thoughts about that?
L
Lew Cirne10:16
I mean, there's positives and negatives. There is certainly some tunnel vision or echo chamber factors where the commonly held viewpoints in Silicon Valley don't take into account the broader world often. But there is something special about the fact that there's so many companies in Silicon Valley that people can move from company to company, hopefully after a significant 10 years where they've really had an impact. Then that knowledge they can bring in from another company like a Google or a LinkedIn or Salesforce, that knowledge and that expertise can help grow your company. Whereas if everybody's only worked at one company like Armonk, New York, IBM, it's all IBMers, so you don't get that difference of perspective.
H
Host11:02
Are there disadvantages?
J
John Hayes11:05
So there are definitely disadvantages with having perspective with your customers. Most of our early customers were actually like Midwest manufacturing companies, city councils, schools, very busy mid-range businesses that people don't think of as adopting new technologies well. The first thing is a business isn't innovative, a person is. So you have to find the person within that business. But it's also something that you have to make a deliberate effort in Silicon Valley to cultivate respect for your customers who aren't other tech companies. Even in Silicon, not only there's lots and lots of tiny sub-regions within. I think two miles of our office, there are 10 other storage companies. So even within Silicon Valley, these little super clusters actually exist.
H
Host11:54
So give me some sense as to what's, because everybody talks about enterprise tech being so hot right now. What do you think is changing? How's the landscape going to look differently? If I gave you each five million dollars, what would you short? But not that. What do you think is making it such a hot space at the moment? What do you think are some of the misperceptions, the overhyped or underappreciated?
L
Lew Cirne12:22
So I think there's two things. The curve we're riding is technology change, but then there's also a cultural change in that enterprise and consumer are a lot more like each other than there used to be.
H
Host12:36
People think is how you sell to them exactly.
L
Lew Cirne12:38
It changes. You think about in terms of bring your own device, well that's now affecting software, it's affecting infrastructure where you're selling from the bottom up. When I think of what causes people to re-buy our product, it's not about performance. It's about that people who actually have to use it get their evenings and weekends back because they can actually work on it during the day without it blowing up. So I think that the big change in enterprise is it is now a fundamentally more bottom-up type product.
J
John Hayes13:12
No question. And I learned something quite stunning to me. It makes sense when you hear it. Because of the internet and how transparent information is compared to 10, 15 years ago, purchasers of enterprise technology are 54% through their purchasing decision before they engage with a salesperson.
H
Host13:30
Oh really?
J
John Hayes13:31
Yes. So you can't be thinking about, I've got control over the message to the customer when they engage with me. It's far prior to the sales engagement. Often how they get their information is by trying out the product or trying out your competitor's product. So you want to obsess on that, how does somebody discover and fall in love with your product without somebody there to hand hold them? This is just a foreign concept from the incumbents. They are so into the PowerPoint presentation, then the white glove install, then the long negotiation, then the purchase. We designed our company from the ground up. The inspiration for it was I founded the company the year the iPhone came out, the first iPhone. That was the first phone you could activate on your own. You didn't need someone in the store to turn on the phone for you. I thought we should do that in enterprise software. We shouldn't require an SE to set up this software for me. People should be able to set it up. There's a joy in having the control over your own consumption experience. CIO or CTO to sell to, they show up, they got to think offense with software, not defense. They can't be thinking about cutting costs. They got to think about empowering the front line people to be as productive as possible. I think those are the CIOs that are growing in influence and they're getting promoted. Whereas the people that are all they're thinking about is how do I reduce the cost, do what I did last year faster cheaper, they're not going to have jobs in five years. I really believe that.
H
Host14:52
Give some real concrete advice even in terms of personally. What weaknesses did you feel you had to supplement? You are the coding CEO. When you're building an enterprise tech company, what advice do you have to people who actually want to get into the enterprise themselves? The rules are changing so quickly. What would be your observations?
L
Lew Cirne15:18
I think the most important lessons you can learn, and this is a guaranteed thing you're going to learn if you start a company, you'll learn more about yourself and discover your weaknesses.
H
Host15:25
And what are your weaknesses?
L
Lew Cirne15:27
Oh my goodness. Well, I can't, I have a short attention span. I can't sit in a long meeting, so I don't go to meetings. I've hired a great president who goes to meetings. If the meeting has more than six people, I don't go. Except my board meeting tomorrow, I have to legally go to my board meeting tomorrow. But other than that, I'm not an operational planning person. I'm not into the administrative side. So I hire world-class people that in some cases they could be great CEOs. If they were CEOs, they'd probably be complementing themselves with people more with my skill set. I'm passionate about innovation, I'm passionate about telling the story about our company, and I'm passionate about attracting great people to the cause. So that's what I like to do.
H
Host16:13
How about yourself?
J
John Hayes16:15
So I almost think that I'm the opposite. I love building the products so much. I love meetings? No, okay, no, I don't like these. I love building the product so much. I think it took me a while to figure out that explaining our product is really, really hard. The simpler it is, the more you have to explain. Avoid like something that will give us the one word. I think pure flash storage.
H
Host16:38
Give me what's the immediate elevator pitch.
J
John Hayes16:46
Okay, okay. What are you selling and when can I have it? What have you found hard to explain? I found hard to explain the things that you don't have to do anymore. So we focused on making products that are super, super simple. There's a huge list of things that don't take time anymore. So it shows up, you plug it in, you have storage. It works well in a market where most of our competitors market speed. We market simplicity because we think ultimately that's more important. To come back to Lou's comment on the CIO, a lot of CIOs spend 90% of their time just trying to operate what they have. How do we reduce that to like 70 so they have 30% of their time on innovation instead of 10% of their time on innovation?
H
Host17:40
I want to learn what's happening here. There is, we're in a space where obviously the cycle of winner to loser is a matter of months, sometimes years. How quickly do you feel the giants in enterprise tech are being disrupted? What do you see the landscape looking like three, five years from now? Give us some sense of what you get excited about. I'm going to start with you because there aren't many software companies, there are less intense software companies in existence with more than a billion in revenue. One of them is a SaaS company, Salesforce. So I predict that the traditional software companies are going to continue to consolidate and or decline. If you look at the top 10 software companies five or ten years from now, at least half of them will be Salesforce or newer, and they're all going to be cloud companies. They're going to have the mindset of delivering amazing products people love to use. So that's exciting. We want to be one of them. I think it's good for people who consume enterprise technology to actually have products that you actually like to use.
And what about yourself? Give me some sense of how you see the landscape changing, especially since you're in a space where it's hard to disrupt legacy systems, it's hard to pivot billion dollar customers, never mind your own create a billion dollar company.
J
John Hayes19:08
So I think that the opportunity is that there's a technology change that makes the excuse to make a new product. But at the same time, cloud is a big force. It's a big force not because it's in someone else's data center versus yours, but because it's a massive change in usability. So I think that the existing companies, there's going to be incumbent, they're all tearing each other apart as well. We're just a part of it. But you're going to end up with at least a couple of new large companies in enterprise infrastructure.
H
Host19:41
Like besides yourselves?
J
John Hayes19:46
Well, I can't predict which companies will survive, but that's what happened last time. That's how we have the current slate of companies we have. You go back to the early 90s, there's a big transition to open systems, and that formed the winners that we have today. They were all declared in the early 90s and they've been stable since then. It's going to be turned over again.
H
Host20:08
Okay, so we have less than a minute left. So I'll give you each 30 seconds. Give some takeaway that you think is important. Let's crystallize it down to how to build an enterprise company. What advice do you have? What would you be thinking about? Any poem, fortune cookie motto? What do you have, Lou?
L
Lew Cirne20:26
I feel like when you're beginning, when you're founding a company, you're thinking about the problem you want to solve. Think hard not only about the business model and the product, but how the product and business model work together. The product ought to be built with the business model in mind. The business model has to be built with the product in mind. For example, that whole how do people discover your product and fall in love without the help of a sales engineer or sales rep, that's as important as what does your app product actually do once they're using it.
H
Host20:55
Final words to you.
J
John Hayes20:57
So enterprise products are more similar to consumer products. I go even further and say the way technology is flowing is from consumer to enterprise. Consumer has all the new technology and hardware today, and it's coming into enterprise. In addition, when you're marketing to enterprise, you have to think about how that affects every single constituent in the company. That's something that's very interesting. One person, you have to make one person love you, but you have to make five people understand you because there's five people who can say no. That's good. So make one person love you and five people understand you, and you're good to go.
H
Host21:35
Please join me in thanking these two gentlemen. Obviously the space will be talking about a lot more. Thank you.