Hubert Joly & Ole Rosgaard Talk Leading Through Uncertainty | Leadership Conversations Part 2

So it's leadership from the inside out, as opposed to top-down. But it's tough. It's a lot of work. It's a journey. Let me put it this way exactly. Yeah, it is a journey. On that journey, over the last couple of years, we've actually changed our executive team and importantly how we work together.

Yeah, well, it all ties. I think in fact, you know, there's diversity, there's inclusion, and I would maybe underscore inclusion as the first thing. If we want everybody at the company to be their best and do their best, what I've learned is that everyone needs to feel included, that they belong. I remember when I was visiting a store earlier, there was a young man who had been at the company for a couple of years. He told me his life changed the day a manager who he had seen at training orientation recognized him and took an interest in him. So my compatriot, I'm originally from France as you know, my compatriot René Descartes said, 'I think, therefore I am.' I think he's wrong. It's 'I am seen, therefore I am.' I'm seen and I'm respected and I'm cherished and I'm celebrated. That's the beginning, because you can build diversity, but if the diverse population doesn't feel they belong, they're not going to stay. Now diversity is indeed important. The country is evolving. The country is quickly becoming majority brown and black. Half of the population has always been women. How stupid would it be to build an organization just with people like you and I, aging white men? There's nothing with white men, but we need to embrace the richness of the population because it gives us more effectiveness. I believe that if it had been Lehman Brothers and Sisters as opposed to Lehman Brothers, you remember in 2008 when that bank went bankrupt? I think it could have been a different outcome. I think it's essential in business that our teams represent the customers we're trying to serve. There's places in Orlando. If your store employees don't speak Portuguese, they're not going to be able to serve the Brazilian tourists. Or in parts of Chicago, if the blue shirts don't speak Polish, they're not going to do a good job. So we need that beautiful diversity of talent and expertise and backgrounds so that we bring the collective best to perform for the company. I think it's a business imperative. It's a moral imperative, but it's also a business imperative for sure.

Ah, so I think that's in many ways for everyone to define their own secret source of leadership. I'll share my opinions. The belief I have is that the model of leadership last century was very much around the 'know-it-alls,' the people who were the smartest person in the room and had all of the answers and would tell other people what to do. That's how I grew up in business. The role models, the Jack Welches of the world, were very much along these lines. Nobody wants to follow a leader like this, except if there's a fire, we want to follow the instructions of the fireman for sure. But in a world that has become so volatile, uncertain, and chaotic, most of us don't have the answer. During COVID, maybe you had the manual on how to deal with COVID. I did not. So we have to learn humility in leadership. At Best Buy, we had developed the five B's of purposeful leadership. The first B was be clear about your own purpose in life, your true north, as our good friend Bill George talks about. Be curious about the purpose of people around you and how all of this connects with the purpose of the company. The second B is be clear about your role as a leader. Your role as a leader is not to be the smartest person in the room and tell other people what to do, but to create the environment for others to be successful. The third B is be clear about who you serve as a leader. I've told the officers at Best Buy when I was CEO there, if you're here to serve yourself or your boss or me as the CEO of the company, it's okay. I don't have a problem with that, except you cannot work here. We're going to promote you to customer and we're going to love you up and take care of you. On the other hand, if you believe that you're here to serve others, in particular the frontliners, then we're good. The fourth B is values-driven. Integrity is essential. The fifth B is around five qualities of great leaders. You talked about authenticity. It's essential. Empathy is essential. Vulnerability, being able to say, 'My name is Hubert, I don't know and I need help.' Humility, and then humanity. These are five words we would never have used 10 years ago to describe great leaders. I think today they are essential. At least that's my opinion. But I think everyone needs to define what kind of leader they want to be. That's an important discussion.

Yeah, these are very challenging times. Status quo is not a great option, so of course you need to be on this transformation journey. But we have to say it out loud: from a leadership standpoint, these are very hard times. We get thrown all of these crises on a continuous basis for which we had no training. So this is hard. I spent a lot of time with senior executives on that topic. A few thoughts: one is don't forget to take care of yourself. Remember when we are flying, if the oxygen mask comes down, we're told put the mask on yourself first before you can help others. So take care of yourself physically, mentally, spiritually. Be surrounded with a support network because this is going to be a marathon. The second thing is to reflect. I heard somebody say, reframe things: pressure is privilege. Clearly it's challenging, but it's also an honor to be put in positions of leadership. Everybody listening is a leader. At the minimum, we're leaders of our lives. Consider that there's a lot we cannot control. Wisdom is about knowing the difference between what we can control and what we cannot control. Consider that this is a leadership moment, an opportunity to rise and be our best. It'll hopefully be remembered 10 years from now as their finest hour, the rise to the occasion. The third thing is that in this mess we're in, try to see opportunities to serve. I think that's what I've learned from other leaders and from my own experiences. Spend time with the frontliners, spend time with the customers. What are their needs? They're also in pain. Your key role is empathy. Understand the pain they're going through and transform that into opportunities. I know that a couple of other alumni from the True North Workshop, Christophe Beck at Ecolab and Laxman Narasimhan at Starbucks, worked with their customers McDonald's and Hilton respectively and created safe solutions. During COVID, the hospitality sector needed to create a safe environment to welcome customers. Using science and their products, they created certified safe solutions for McDonald's and Hilton. The other one is that in a world of massive change, the resilient organizations, those who will survive, are not just there to withstand the shocks. They will be there to thrive in the new environment. This is a time of opportunity to refound. This is a time of refoundation for businesses, revisiting the key needs in the world. This is not about what products have we been selling. No, what are the underlying needs in the world we are uniquely qualified to address? Then rematch business around these needs. It's not the dinosaurs who survived when 66 million years ago planet Earth was hit. So I think what you're doing with your purpose and your strategy built to last is very profound. Be on the journey to execute, because that's going to be a journey. The last thing I would say in that context is be kind to yourselves. In a context that's highly unpredictable, this is not going to be linear. It's not a straight line from where you are to where you're heading. There will be step backs. Be kind to yourself. When the world was highly predictable, you could hold yourself accountable to achieving certain targets. That's become really hard because there's so much we don't control. The new standard for me, which is going to sound weird, is: are you doing your best? Are you doing everything you can to move in that direction? If you've really done your best, that's the only thing you can do. And by the way, if today you didn't do your best, still be kind to yourself. There's still tomorrow. Navigating towards it seems weird. If somebody had told me 20 years ago that what we expect of leaders is to do their best, I would say this is too weak. In the current environment, that's really what we can do.

Instead of advice, maybe I can share a couple of thoughts that have helped me in the past. During COVID, only when we couldn't go outside could we go inside. As you begin the year, spend time reflecting as a leader: how do I want to be remembered? What kind of a leader do I want to be? Yes, there will be business goals to accomplish. That's the what. The purpose is the why. But there's also the how. What do I want in 12, 24, 36 months from now? What do I want people to say about me? What kind of a leader I was? So create, write down your leadership purpose, your leadership principles, your key values. The reason it's important is that in this uncertain world where lots is changing outside, it's best to go back to what is not changing: purpose, principles, and values. The other thought that's related: I read many years ago this great book by Ben Zander, The Art of Possibilities. At the end of each class, he was the conductor of the Boston Philharmonic but he was also teaching. At the beginning of each class, he would tell his students, 'In my class, every one of you were incredibly talented. Everybody's going to get an A.' Which seems weird in the academic setting, but it's equally weird when you are in these elite schools. These are amazing students. But he said, 'The only condition to get an A is that you write to me a letter within the next two weeks that explains why you will get an A.' Of course, this led the students to actually do what deserved an A. My suggestion to everyone is, as you begin the year, maybe write yourself a letter that looks at what you would have done in the next 12, 24, 36 months or maybe longer. It's a bit like your retirement speech, right? What is it that will lead me to be? Then keep that letter handy and go back to it. It sounds simple. It would be like a set of KPIs to achieve. It's actually more profound than this. Use this at your own peril. There's a product liability disclaimer when I say these things. But these two things have helped me navigate challenging times.

You're welcome. Have a great meeting and a terrific 2024. The world needs you to be the best version of Greif that you can be. Good luck with that. Thank you.