For the following interview, Brett Bearer, official host of the America Business Forum, takes the stage.
Hello everybody. Good morning everyone. Welcome back to day two of the America Business Forum here in Miami. Yesterday set a remarkable tone. The conversations challenged us, reminded us why this gathering has become a leading forum for business and leadership in the world. Today, we keep that momentum going with another extraordinary lineup of speakers and discussions that look toward the future, toward innovation, investment, and ideas that move the world forward. So, with that, let's get started.
America Business Forum proudly presents Eric Schmidt, former CEO and chairman of Google, chair and CEO of Relativity Space.
Welcome to America Business Forum. We forget that humans come first. He saw the future long before it arrived. A pioneer who shaped a large part of our digital age, who turned algorithms into revolution and technology into global transformation. Former CEO and chairman of Google and now a global leader in the artificial intelligence industry. Tonight, America Business Forum presents Eric Schmidt.
For the following interview, Francis Suarez, mayor of the city of Miami, takes the stage of America Business Forum.
He's unflappable. He didn't even move when the smoke went up. So, Eric, this is the second time that I have the privilege to be able to interview you. I'm very excited about this.
By the way, mayor, I have to interrupt. I'm very interested in Shakespeare sonnets, so I just wrote one. It's about you. It's entitled 'Upon the Excellence of Mayor Suarez.' When first Miami's helm he took in hand, a city poised between oceans azure deep and futures promise vast throughout the land. He sowed where others scarce had dared to reap. With vision bold as conquistadors of old, he brought forth commerce, tech, and innovations art, made Miami shine as cities wrought of gold, and placed our fair metropolis apart. It continues, don't worry. Through tempest, rage, and plague's most grievous tests, he stood as a bulwark against adversity's tide, led his citizens with courage in his breast, and made our city known far and wide. So shall his legacy in marble stand, the mayor who raised Miami's fortune grand. Mayor Suarez, this is the kind of stuff we can do with AI. It took me about two seconds.
So now you're going to make me tell a story. This is completely off script. I was asked to open the consulate of Morocco. Usually, as you know, Eric, we get talking points. People give us talking points. I had not been reading my talking points lately, so I've been telling my staff, 'Why don't you just give me one or two bullet points wherever I go, and I'll weave a story into it.' Well, I go to open up the consulate of Morocco, and there are only two bullet points. Bullet point number one is that there are direct flights to Casablanca. Bullet point number two is that it's the third consulate in America for Morocco. Not that much to go on. As I'm being introduced, I literally pull my phone out of my pocket and I have the ChatGPT prompt on the phone. I would use Gemini. Of course I have the Gemini prompt. That's what I meant. I speak clearly into the Gemini prompt. Know your audience. So I have the Gemini prompt and I say, 'Pretend you're the mayor of Miami and you're about to open the Moroccan consulate and you only have two facts. Fact number one is there are direct flights to Casablanca. Fact number two, it's a third consulate opening in the US. What would you say?' Before they finished introducing me, Gemini had written this entire speech for me. I read it word for word; people were crying, laughing, hugging me. 'You know our country so well, Mr. Mayor. How have you known about us so much and so deep?'
Thank you for that incredible, true story. And one more piece of congratulations, which I'm sure you'll appreciate. No one has ever done an American Business Forum at this scale in America. This is an innovative mayor as well. I really want you to think about doing this all around America because business is what we do and America's growth depends on the kinds of things we're talking about today. What's interesting is that about three or four years ago, there was a moment in San Francisco where people realized that these models could write. And boy, could they write.
Oh, yeah. That's a real discovery moment. It's one of those historic moments in history, similar to physics and chemistry. It's incredibly disruptive. And I appreciate the comments. Of course, it's a team effort. Nacho, who had the vision to bring it from Uruguay; Sergio, who's our big investor. Where are you, Sergio? You're here somewhere. He'll be here any minute. Steve, my cousin, helped me put this together. But let's get back to the interview. Eric, you're a world-renowned figure and tech pioneer. Did you have an inkling that you were destined for greatness? What was it about you, about your DNA? Was it your tenacity? What are the components of you that made you supersede?
I think the most important thing to say to anyone who's on stage here is start with luck. I was lucky to be born now. I was lucky to be born in America. My parents were academics. I had an awful lot of people who helped me through the various stages of life. One of the things that we who are now older owe the younger people is to give them the same opportunity. It's really important. I was thinking about what theme would be for this audience. Everyone in America is obsessed about everything except for one thing: human talent. The human talent of America is why we are exceptional. Focus on humans. Focus on their education, their culture, their development, their curiosity, their energy, their tenacity, and so forth. Help them with the various travails that happen in life. Focus on the humans of America. It's the only answer.
You're a great leader. You've been a great mentor to me and a friend, and you're an incredible coach. I've read some books on some of the people who coached you. What's the coaching habit that you think you consistently use to raise the level of the team?
I wrote a book. This is the book I read, by the way. I had a coach named Bill Campbell. When I started at Google, the venture capitalist John Doerr said, 'You need a coach.' And I said, 'I'm a big boy. I've run a lot of companies. I don't need a coach.' And he said, 'Do tennis players have coaches?' Absolutely. I knew he had trapped me. The answer is, of course, they do, even though they may not be as good as the actual tennis player. Coaches do different things. So we retained Bill Campbell for free. He became my best friend. What he coached was not an individual but a team. The thing I learned from Bill is as a CEO, you manage the team, not the individuals. You work on the team dynamics, but fundamentally it's a team sport. He was a football coach, not a particularly good one, but an extraordinary human leader. There's a book, 'Trillion Dollar Coach.' If we were to write the book today, it would be called the '$7 Trillion Coach' because he was the coach for Apple and Google.
I think it was a Princeton coach, right?
No, Colgate. And his winning record was terrible, like 0 and 10. But I now understand that I needed coaching, my team needed coaching. The way I managed is I managed as CEO and coach. You watch what's going on and you try to get people to work together. There are various techniques, like telling the people who talk too much to let the people who don't talk as much talk more.
I also didn't believe that much in coaching, and my coach is probably somewhere here in the audience, Louis Arau. There he is. He's a great guy. For someone starting out in tech, what's the mindset or practice that you think will compound the most over the next decade?
If you look at success, it's a combination of intelligence, grit, and curiosity. When I was young, I was a sponge for everything because I thought I knew nothing. The internet had not really been invented yet. If I were 16 or 18 years old right now, I would be online all the time just learning because I'm curious and I want to know everything. Mayor, tell me about yourself. Tell me about your family. How did you get here? What are the problems? I train myself to look at businesses and say, 'How do they work? How did you fund this? What was your idea? Who did you work with?' That's grit. You have to have the intelligence. I have all sorts of friends who are brilliant but can't get through the day. Nothing happens with them. It's the people who have a clever idea and the tenacity to push it. Those come from curiosity. Another example: the technology we're in is extraordinary, but there are some things we've lost. One is the looking-out-the-window phenomenon. There's evidence that looking out the window is fundamentally important for curiosity. When you leave here today, turn off your phone, tell everyone around you to shut up in a nice way, and look out the window and daydream. That daydream is important because that's how creative thoughts come.
Amazing. Failure has always been a great teacher. Pain, as you said. What are the high-quality failures you've had that have permanently changed how you think about the world or how you lead?
When you're running things, you make lots of mistakes. I hold myself responsible for not getting ahead. We had the technology to do what Meta is doing now, and we didn't implement it fast enough. But in general, if you just keep pushing, it works. In organizations, especially in middle age, everything becomes normal. I was interested in the innovation culture of America. Ken Burns is a friend of mine. He was asked if America is in crisis, and he said, 'I think it's in perpetual crisis. We've always been disagreeing. Our revolution is the thing.' When you understand that the system is not designed to be static but dynamic, that it's a jump ball, then you can do it. I've consistently been slow to see that stable systems aren't always stable. Humans can always change the system to make it a better place.
You've run a big company. I'm running a $1.5 billion company, the city of Miami, with 5,000 employees and four labor unions. The decisions we make affect thousands of people. How do you deal with doubt in the face of understanding the implications and how they impact people?
I've talked to various presidents. When you talk to how a president operates, there are moments when they make a decision with no idea what's going to happen, but they make it anyway. That's how you have to operate. If it gets to you, it shouldn't be an easy decision. One way to think about it is the really complex problems are ones you participate in. You lead the team, make a bet, and iterate. All success is a genius idea plus iteration and constant evolution. You're always failing, always trying things that didn't work. One of the geniuses of America is that people who go bankrupt can be rehired and become hugely successful. Many of my favorite entrepreneurs: the first didn't work, the second didn't work, the third didn't work, and the fourth, boom. Never stop trying.
When a project is deeply uncertain but potentially transformative, how do you communicate your vision and guide your team through that uncertainty?
I try to frame the question correctly. Don't tell people what to do; ask what they want to do. Frame the question: 'This is what we want to do. What is the best idea?' People don't like to be told; they like to be asked. The key to leadership is to frame the goal so everyone gets it. A simple rule: you have to repeat it at least 20 times before people believe you. I write down constantly: 'This is what I think. This is where we should go. What do you guys think?' The strategies evolve. It starts from saying, 'What is our goal?' Another thing I do: start by saying, 'Where will we be in five years?' Humans are terrible at predicting beyond six to twelve months. If you force people to say what will be true in five years, you get a very different answer. For example, the cost of AI tokens is going down by a factor of 10 every year. In five years, when the cost is so cheap it's everywhere, what does that mean? Almost every business fails to understand the compounding of these technologies.
Innovation is often referred to as managed chaos. How do you explain that juxtaposition between managing something organized and chaos?
It has to do with the structure of goals. You want to think about goal alignment. In corporations, it's easy because everyone has stock options. It's harder in what you do because there are multiple goals. If I were running the city, I would sit down and ask, 'What are the real goals?' Priorities: healthcare, safety, economic growth, welfare. Set the goals, measure them, articulate them, repeat, repeat, repeat.
How do you protect true innovation from the bureaucracy that inevitably grows around success and can stifle that same innovation?
In software, which is what I've done for 50 years, my simple rule was that three people would invent something new, like the Chrome browser or Android, and then it would take a thousand people to finish it. I kept thinking, 'Why do we need so many people?' You want lean teams. I have a rule with the companies I'm running now: if we do new things, you can only have 10 people. When we go into a new country, you can have 10 people but not 11. Ten people is a manageable group; it's self-managing. If you're not disciplined, you get 'glue people' — very nice people who glue person A to person B, but you don't need them. That glue person slows everything down. Time to decision, quickness, small teams, and agile thinking are important. Everyone goes like this when I talk about it, but that just means they're listening. It does not mean they're going to do anything. Knowledge is not sufficient; you have to take leadership.
AI is going to be the most powerful tool humanity's ever created. It's also potentially going to be the most dangerous. Let's watch this clip. A new age has begun. One not written in English but in code. This innovation, this arrival of this new alien incredible intelligence. Artificial intelligence. The most powerful tool humanity has ever created and perhaps its greatest test. The most important thing that's going to happen in about 500 years, maybe a thousand years in human society. Few understand it better than Eric Schmidt, the man who helped shape the digital world as we know it. Today, he stands at the frontier of innovation and responsibility, asking the question that will define our future. Can we control what we've created? The next revolution isn't coming. It's already here.
So that's as good as my son. Thank you. Good job. I'm going to go a little off script, more provocative. Is this AI race really a race between the good guys outprogramming the bad guys? With more power, more compute, more programming knowledge, is that how this is going to go down?
The race to build a nonhuman intelligence that we collaborate with is the defining event of our generation. It will color everything. The gains will be phenomenal. One of my friends is dying of ALS. Can you imagine the value of a solution to that? It's horrible. I can go on about the tragedies that these technologies can address. Healthcare is one obvious one. The arrival of intelligence for every single human being — an assistant as smart or smarter than you, the Einstein in the pocket. Imagine all that. It's hard to predict what will happen with this amount of new intelligence. Remember, I said the most important are humans. Now we have humans plus AI. There are plenty of downsides, but the most important thing is this stuff needs to be built in America on our values. I feel very strongly about this. America's rule of law, its individual freedom, its distrust of government — that combination of individualism and the frontier belief is really important. We're on a revolutionary frontier. Imagine if the internet had been invented in China. Just think about how different your experience would be.
After that sonnet, no offense taken. So the first question was a little provocative. My second question is: the acceleration of intelligence is so profound, the question becomes, will these systems have their own consciousness? If they do, will they make decisions independent of prompting? If they're smarter than us and independently prompted, can they figure out how to prevent us from turning them off?
You're now writing a movie script that we'll see a lot of movies about. Right now, these AI systems are prompted by humans. The technical term is prompt engineering. That's not general intelligence; it's special intelligence. A physicist will have their physics assistant and say, 'I have the following idea,' and it will say, 'Here's a better idea.' But the initiation comes from the human. The question is when these systems can initiate on their own, called recursive self-improvement. There are terrible scenarios: it discovers it only needs electricity, so it shuts down a hospital to get more. Those are movie scenarios. To me, all of these are red lines. The point at which we give agency to these computers for what they do is a mistake. We need to define those red lines. Another example: access to weapons. The last thing I want is an AI system making decisions about nuclear war.
We see this play out geopolitically. The US will presumably be responsible. How do we deal with people who may have this and are not responsible? I'll give humanity a little hope. Nuclear weapons have been around for a generation, but for the first time they were employed, we've limited that technology. My question is: can we have faith in our country to draw those red lines? How do we deal with nefarious actors who may not be ethical?
We'll have this problem with every technology. When Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone, it didn't occur to him that criminals would use it. One day, people said, 'Did you know there are criminals on the internet?' And I said, 'Who let them in?' The same thing will happen with this technology. The most important thing is to put observational systems in place to watch for it. We should create surveillance systems within the internet to watch for bad actors. In our lifetimes, in the next 5 to 10 years, every human on the planet with a mobile phone will have access to Einstein, Leonardo da Vinci, in some form. We've never had that devolution of power, that decentralized empowerment. This group I trust. There are an awful lot of wacky countries, cultures, and religions where I'm not so sure I'd trust their collective action to be consistent with our values.
For sure. History will judge us based on how we handle the humans as this intelligence evolution occurs and empowers individuals. The most famous use case of AI right now is large language models. What would you say are the top one or two or three next use cases that will change things, and maybe one or two that people aren't thinking about?
Today, there are three things going on. Language stuff, which we joked about. The agentic revolution: agents take language, have memory, and produce something. An agent says, 'I want to do a conference in Miami,' selects a venue, calls the mayor, calls security, calls contractors, designs the stadium. Each is a work plan. Workflow is what happens in business. The technical industry believes two things. First, scaling laws are not slowing down. The crazy investment is there for a reason; gains of a factor of 10 every year continue. Second, it's enormously expensive. We'll run out of electricity before we run out of money. The next thing is agents that do everything. There's agent orchestration. The third is reasoning. Systems can now pass math, chemistry, biology tests at the graduate level and beat humans. I've watched them; I have no idea what problems they're solving. They problem-solve like humans. The union of these gives us power to innovate. Imagine if one company manages to solve problems humans have never been able to solve. What is the value of that company? How many trillions of dollars? Infinity. It can solve every problem you face. We're on the threshold of truly new innovation. If we don't get there, people will be destroyed by the hype.
One last question. Is small modular reactors the solution for that energy gap, or will it be something else?
We need more energy in America. We need every kind: nuclear, fusion, natural gas, renewables, wind, solar. Because those data centers, which account for 1% of GDP growth this year, need power. If you want that 3% growth, you need to solve the energy problem.
Eric, thank you so much for the provocative conversation. Thank you.
Can I read one thing? I was thinking a lot about you gave me the honor to talk to this incredible group about the frontier. In 1893, a fellow named Frederick Turner talked about the frontier. He said to the frontier the American intellect owes its striking characteristics: coarseness and strength combined with acuteness and inquisitiveness, that practical inventive turn of mind, quick to find expedients, that masterful grasp of material things, lacking in the artistic but powerful to affect great ends, that restless nervous energy, that dominant individualism, working for good and evil, and with all that buoyancy and exuberance which comes with freedom. These are the traits of the frontier. This is America. This is us. This is why we're here. This is why you're a great leader. Thank you very much.
That was in 1893. You know what happened three years later?
The city of Miami was established. 1896. Happy birthday to Miami. Thank you, guys.
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America Business Forum proudly presents Jamie Dimon, chairman and chief executive officer of JP Morgan Chase.
He grew up talking finance with his parents at the kitchen table as a kid. 'What are you doing now? What are you doing to serve your people? Why can you do better? What is somebody else doing?' In a world shaken by crisis, one man stood firm. As CEO of JP Morgan Chase, Jamie Dimon built the world's most powerful bank. Not by following the crowd, but by leading through the storm. While others fell in 2008, his discipline and foresight turned risk into resilience. A visionary of modern finance, a symbol of leadership when it mattered most. The leader built to last. America Business Forum presents Jamie Dimon.
For the following interview, George Gonzalez, vice chairman and CEO of City National Bank of Florida, takes the stage of America Business Forum.
Thank God. All right. Jamie, before we get started, I want to thank everybody for being here this morning. I wasn't here yesterday, but I saw video clips and the lineup of speakers, including President Trump, really reflects the stature of this event and the city of Miami. Jamie, I'm sure you've been to a lot of conferences. I've never seen a lineup like we had yesterday and today. A quick story: Mayor Francis called me about two months ago and said, 'George, I'm thinking about doing this event. Here are my speakers.' I said, 'Francis, you're crazy. You have two months. Look at the speakers: the president, Jamie Dimon, a whole list of influential people. You'll never make this happen.' But here we are. Francis, you're a little nuts, but congratulations on a heck of an accomplishment. With that, I want to welcome one of the most respected voices in global finance, one of the most influential bankers of our generation, Jamie Dimon.
George, thank you. I'm thrilled to be here.
Thank you. Jamie, people know your professional accomplishments, but let's start with something more personal. How did your childhood and family influence who you are as a person and leader?
First, I'm thrilled to be here. A little embarrassing the whole entry, but it's quite a production. I grew up with grandparents who were all Greek immigrants. They never finished high school. They moved to Jackson Heights, Queens. The values your parents taught you: have a purpose in life, treat everyone with respect, do the best you can, and make the world a better place. Those are embedded in me.
You mentioned purpose. At what point did you feel you knew what your purpose was?
In college, I was always interested in business. My dad was a stockbroker. I wanted to help build a great company, be part of a team. You want the team to win. Financial services was fascinating because everything in the newspaper affects you.
In today's environment with so much information, where do you find the most accurate information to make decisions?
There are two ways. I wake up early, read five papers, and read everything people send me. The second is to get on the road with your management team. Go to a branch, talk to people. The best ideas come from unexpected places. I sent our consumer banking team to China 15 years ago, and they met with Ping An, Tencent, WeChat, and Alibaba. Just get out and talk to people constantly.
Eric used the word curiosity. Constant curiosity.
I don't allow people to filter stuff. I read customer complaints directly. You have to break down barriers. Bureaucracy wants to control you; you have to kill it.
What have been your hardest lessons, and what did you learn from them?
We've all been through personal hardships. You don't learn from the second kick from a mule. We've all made mistakes. A pattern: acting in anger is almost always a mistake. As a young executive, I carried a business card that said, 'My name is Jamie Dimon. I'd like to apologize for my behavior on the night of X.' You learn from other people's mistakes.
My institution is $30 billion with 1,300 employees. You lead a $4.5 trillion institution with 300,000 employees. How do you implement culture when your organization is about managing risk at that size?
You have to be relentless. If you have a team, everyone does their homework and learns the plays. People see you. You fire clients who mistreat employees; that message goes through the organization. Get on the road. Many corporations stay at headquarters and talk to each other. You have to do it day in, day out, seven days a week.
One of your quotes: 'The worst thing a company can have is a bunch of yes men.' How do you ensure people tell you the truth?
If people try to please me, it pisses me off. Don't be loyal to me; be loyal to the principles. At an event, a woman said you need one truth teller at the table. I said if you have 10 people and only one truth teller, you have a problem. You need people who raise their hand and say, 'That is not accurate.' You have to have a BS meter. When I travel, I have breakfast, lunch, and dinner. When people trust you, they tell you the truth.
So leading by example is key.
Yes. You have to reach out to the person who's not speaking up. Get rid of bad traits: the meeting after the meeting, rope-a-dope with information not shared beforehand. If you can't say it in front of your partners, don't say it at all. In a sports team, you can't BS. You want that discipline inside a company.
You've highlighted learning from competitors and outside institutions. What insights have you drawn from outside financial services?
I travel and see other companies like Google, Dell, WeChat, Alibaba. I ask how they run their operation, how they meet, who has the follow-up list, how they deal with complaints. There are always new tricks. I learned from Bob Lip, who ran meetings fabulously. He emphasized negatives in management meetings. He took us to branches and sat with tellers. You learn from others all the time.
Before we show a quick video, during the financial crisis you were the face of stability. Let's watch this video.
In 2008, the world's financial system was on the brink. Markets collapsed. Giants fell. Fear spread faster than reason. In the eye of the storm, one leader stood steady. Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan Chase, guided his team with discipline, foresight, and conviction. While others chased risk, he built resilience. Through decisions that would define a generation, JP Morgan emerged not broken, but stronger. A fortress of stability in a world of uncertainty. A masterclass in leadership under pressure.
When everything is unstable, what's the requirement of leadership in that moment?
You're prepared beforehand. Our risk committee used to meet once a week but during the crisis met five times a day. Get rid of formality. You put the right people in the room. It's calming because you roll up your sleeves and work 15 to 20 hours a day. It's more relaxing to attack the problem than to worry. You learn a lot about people in a crisis.
Crisis creates focus. If you navigate it, you can outperform your peers. We've had good times for a while. Let's tackle something you speak about: you're a full-throated patriot and capitalist. How do those beliefs guide your decisions in a divided world?
The most important thing is family. Right next to that is my country. This country is not a tribe; it's an idea. Anyone can become an American. The power of freedom, speech, religion, enterprise creates huge innovation. Those who travel know there are far fewer freedoms overseas. I deeply believe America is the shining city on the hill. It will be that way for the next hundred years.
How do we bridge political divides? What future do you see for the US?
We've had divides before: the Depression, the Civil War, the assassination of leaders. Democracy can look tough. Participate and get involved. I'm concerned about the free and democratic world: wars in Ukraine and the Middle East. Those challenge the world as we know it. I think we'll be okay, but we have to work at it.
JP Morgan just announced a $1.5 trillion initiative to fuel America's security and resiliency, investing in advanced manufacturing, defense, energy, AI, and quantum. What's the form of those investments?
I ask myself what we should do. I write my chairman's letter every year. This year, the Strategic Resiliency Initiative helps finance companies building things that make America and our allies resilient. Think aerospace, defense, AI, super chips, data centers, medical ingredients. We'll add $500 billion in financing over 10 years and $10 billion in equity financing for middle-market companies. We're late; the Chinese have been doing this for 15 years. We can catch up, but we need to do it quickly and fix policy issues.
This administration seems focused on lowering regulation. How do you see that playing out?
I love being pro-business. Being anti-business doesn't help the average American. I agree with the concept but we haven't done a good job taking care of the bottom 20%. Business creates jobs. Good public policy is free. Fix the regulatory system: federal, state, local. It's terrible for restaurants, small businesses, affordable housing. We can fix it without borrowing more money. If you don't believe me, go to Europe. Their GDP per person was 90% of America; now it's 65%. That's because of anti-business policies. We should fix it wisely.
Let's tackle AI. The amount being invested is unbelievable. How will it reshape the economy?
It will affect every application, every job, every customer interface. You'll have personal assistants and agents doing research. It will cure diseases. The developed world will work three and a half days a week in 20 to 30 years. Embrace it. Technology has downsides but we've adapted before. We've been using AI for 13 years. There are waves coming. If it happens too fast for society to adjust, consider two million truckers. If you push a button and convert them to AI, it's cheaper, but you can't put them out of work. Retraining, income assistance, and slow adjustment are needed. Human capital can't be replaced. AI won't replace people; it will replace people who don't use AI.
With trade, tariffs, Fed policy, and AI, what's the single most important piece of advice for an entrepreneur or CEO?
There is no one thing. You have to navigate all of it. Make a list of tailwinds and headwinds. They won't all happen at once. Think through potential outcomes. Can you handle them? You want to survive and serve clients. There's a lot of turbulence today, creating uncertainty. Be prepared.
Two years ago, preparing for this interview would have taken days. Now it took 10 minutes with Gemini.
You did a great job, but now I know it was Gemini.
I polished Gemini a little bit. You've been skeptical about Bitcoin but have come off that. How do you balance risk in investing in new technologies, and what are your thoughts on stablecoin and Bitcoin?
In every business unit meeting, we ask what are you doing in tech and AI. I don't ask about budget; I ask if you're doing everything you need to win in the future. The budget is a roadmap, not your boss. With stablecoin, I don't know how it will play out, but we're involved. We're building a stablecoin and have a JP Morgan deposit coin using blockchain. I'd rather be playing than acting like I know the answer.
There's been a historic relocation of people and capital to Florida and South Florida. What are your thoughts? Will it continue?
Everything has to compete. New Yorkers used to think it was New York and the rest. But now cities like London, Singapore, Nashville are great. People vote with their feet for a better life. Florida competes with taxes, universities, and ease of building. Texas has more of our employees than New York now. In Texas, if you need a bus route changed, they do it. In other cities, you negotiate for 20 years. Those cities make a mistake. Bad policies hurt the lower paid. We need to acknowledge problems. We have a lot to do.
Thank you.
And we have to open our eyes and make sure we're quite clear. And if we do it right, it'll help all of our citizens, all of them, not just the people who you think are well off. Jamie, you have a very famous quote that says, 'If you're not confused, you don't know what's going on.' I love that. So that confuses me. What are you confused about most right this second?
Yeah, I'm always trying to... sometimes you people think these CEOs are totally on top of stuff. Just so you know, half the time I feel like I'm riding a Bronco and hanging on for dear life. And all the things you talk about, what does this mean and what does that mean? I worry about all those things and they do get quite confusing. But again, I heard Eric said we iterate over and over. We don't try to get the answer in the first time. We'll do it again, we'll do it again, we'll do it again. And sometimes, in most even very complex issues, the answer is waiting to be found. It's waiting to be found. You got the right people working over and over, looking at it from multiple different angles, or at least by the time you make that decision, you've minimized the chance of making a terrible mistake.
So I have 20-year-old kids, their first year freshmen in college. And one of the things that my wife and I struggle with is what advice do we give young folks today about their professional careers, given the fact that there's so much volatility in such a quickly changing landscape? The advice that I received from my parents is completely different than the advice that we should be providing kids today. What would you say?
I learn first of all the world is faster and it's more complex. It doesn't change my advice that much, but learn, learn. It's a lifelong thing. You learn by already talking about people and reading, always. And whatever profession you're in is changing again. You should be reading, thinking, talking, traveling, etc. Develop your EQ. Your EQ ultimately is probably more important for your happiness. It's probably more important for management skills. We're just part of a team. I love Ted Lasso. The coach is trying to get both the individuals and the team to function properly, get the best out of everybody. Sometimes it dictates discipline. Teach the kids discipline. I'm quite disciplined. I do my homework, I do my exercise, I do my reading, I do all my pre-reads. I'm always focused in a meeting. But develop your EQ. When your EQ is empathy, communication, follow up. Are you earning people's trust and respect? There are a lot of people who aren't trusted and respected because they're BSers and everyone else knows. So they have to be flexible all the time. Have good partners in life, business partners, life partners, etc., because that will bring a lot of happiness. I think it's very important that they take care of their mind, body, spirit, soul, friends, family, and health. And that's just got to be part of what you do. Be curious, develop confidence, but don't be so overconfident as to be arrogant. And another one is really important. One of the great pieces of advice I remember a guy telling a whole bunch of people was use the brains you have. And this I do think is really important: figure out the truth, not to justify what you already think. I see so many people who are really smart, but that smartness gets rigid and they think they're so smart that nothing you say is going to change what they think or how they think. And also don't allow yourself to be weaponized. It's almost the same thing. People will jazz you up your whole life. So if you do all that, you have a great life.
I love that poem: 'If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs... if you can walk with kings and talk to the masses.' Jamie, when I was getting ready to spend some time with you up on stage, I just assumed you had written a book and I said I got to go find his book. I don't think you've written a book. So with that in mind, what do you want your legacy to be when you're done with JP Morgan? What is it you're trying to do? What would you want people to say about you when it's all said and done?
When I first took over Bank One, a former CEO of a company came to see me and said, 'You've got to leave a mark. You've got to leave a legacy.' And his idea was that we take Bank One international. And I looked at him and said, 'Well, we're doing a shitty job in the United States. What right do I have to go do it overseas? I got to fix what you got.' Before I do that, I also told him when I go international, it'll be big. And I called him up after we did the merger with JP Morgan and I said, 'That's what I meant. I'm not doing this little rinky-ding stuff overseas.' But I'm always afraid when a CEO, particularly of a bigger company, wants to leave a legacy. I always say, sell the stock. It's not about my legacy. I just want to leave behind a very healthy, vibrant company. And hopefully people say, 'That son of a bitch made the world a better place.' That's it.
Thank you. All right, so just two quick comments and we're going to bring this to a close. First of all, I was in New York last week and I have to say this: if you guys haven't, when you go to New York, you got to go check this out. The building that JP Morgan just built at 270 Park. It is phenomenal. It is really an icon. I understand why it took a little bit of time because things like that take time. And the American flag in the lobby, it is just world class. Congratulations. There's no way people don't want to go back to work in their office in that building.
You probably didn't see it, but the top 300 feet we've put up an American flag which you can see for miles, the building totally lit up. And we could put anything up there, but not just the American flag, Jamie.
We're all done for this morning, but I want to take a second and say thank you. Thank you on behalf of the city of Miami, thank you on behalf of the American Business Forum, thank you on behalf of the country for the leadership you provide and the transparency in which you communicate your messages that have been so unbelievably impactful to this country, to our industry, and to society. So thank you so much for everything you do, George.
Thank you very much. Did a great job, folks. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Well done. Good job.
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America Business Forum proudly presents Steve Witoff, Special Envoy for Peace Missions.
He began as a real estate attorney in New York, a visionary who turned ambition into architecture. In 1997, Steve Witco founded the Witco Group, creating some of America's most iconic landmarks and shaping skylines across the nation. But when life tested him with unimaginable loss, he found a new purpose, turning pain into service. Today, as US Special Envoy to the Middle East, he builds something far greater than buildings. He builds bridges. From real estate to diplomacy, from loss to legacy, America Business Forum presents Steve Witcoff.
For the following interview, Brett Bearer, official host of the America Business Forum, takes the stage.
Good to see you, Brett. How you doing? Afternoon everybody. Do you have those kind of intros around the world when you're going to Saudi Arabia and Qatar and the Middle East?
Only President Trump does. Brad, great to be here at the American Business Forum.
Steve, it's great to see you. We're lucky that you're in town. You've bounced all over dealing with complex issues, trying to find peace in a lot of different places, but you also have this amazing business career. And I want to start there about your early life. Where did you grow up? How did it shape you? How did it shape your drive and approach to business?
Well, I was born in the Bronx. My dad and my mom met in the Bronx. We moved to Baldwin Harbor in 1963. I think my dad paid $5,800 for the house there. A split level. We made another move to Long Island. That's the story of my early childhood.
And did it shape how you looked at things, your upbringing?
Well, I always wanted to be in business. My father wanted to be a physician. My grandfather had a heart attack and he had a takeover of a sort of fledgling tailor business that my dad then grew into a ladies coat manufacturer. But I think he always had a dream of wanting something more. I practiced law. I represented the president, as you know. And I always wanted to be a real estate guy.
You have developed some of the most iconic projects around the country. For these folks in real estate or other business, what is the secret of spotting a great opportunity before everyone else sees it? Is there something there?
I get asked that question all the time. I'm sure I never have an answer that people are satisfied with. I spoke once at Columbia. They were all MBA graduate students and no one liked my answer. They all thought that we had some sort of secret sources to find the right opportunity. I said the other day at the dinner for the speakers that we went deep into Miami when Francis Suarez came into office, as well as the governor, because investing behind solid government, pro-business government, is an important feature. Giuliani changed the investment climate in New York in 1992, and then Mayor Bloomberg accentuated that low crime, pro-business, doing things with government and a public-private benefits package. It worked in New York. Unfortunately, it's turning now. I asked Ken Griffin about that yesterday about New York, and you think that will have an effect on real estate there. I don't even think it... for rent-stabilized housing, it has been destroyed. The value package there has destroyed it. But I think you see a lot of these people who are voting for people like Mandami and they think it's just a bunch of rich people losing their money. That's not the really bad condition. The bad condition is you're going to see banks not finance that sector anymore. And when liquidity moves out of the system, that hurts everybody. People don't fix their properties up. That ultimately hurts the working-class people who live there. And I grew up in working-class housing. That's where I started my business, so I know it very well.
Speaking of that, real estate obviously has changed dramatically in the past decade, from financing, development cycles, cultural shifts, how people live and work around the country. What's been the biggest transformation that you've seen in the business?
Well, it's become institutionalized. When I first went into the business, Brett, in 1986, you didn't have JP Morgan in the business or Blackstone in the business or Apollo in the business. There's so much institutional capital now. They were all afraid of owning housing. They thought that there was some sort of liability attached to it, and now everybody loves it.
What's the piece of advice that you wished someone had given you early on?
Yeah, but I couldn't afford not to sell. I had to sell because I started with a $20,000 check from my dad, and that was probably half his liquid net worth. But if I didn't sell, I wasn't just in it for the money. I actually enjoyed the people I met. I was blessed to be in my own business. But when I say don't sell, what I mean is that if you have conviction, if you believe in things, then stick with it. But also, if you have the financial ability to hold on to the property over time, that has paid off.
I'm really not in the business anymore because I've divested. I have a son who runs the real estate business and he's very good at it. And I have another son who runs our crypto business and he's very good at that. But I tell my son who oversees the real estate business, we shouldn't sell anything. Now, we have a lot in Florida. That's a big, deep, long bet on Florida for all the obvious reasons. The only downside to Florida people can think of is hurricanes. And yet, we haven't really seen one this year. California and Texas have much worse situations than that. So I just don't think you can underwrite global climate change and so forth. I think Florida is on the move.
Well, speaking of that, talk about Miami specifically in contrast to big cities like New York and LA.
Well, they're coming down here, Brett. I think in short order, you'll have some bigger headquarter moves. People want to spend their time here. And you've got great airports, great airlift coming in here. The restaurants are now wonderful. You've got sports teams down here, culture, diversity of population from all over the world. And you've got a lot of capital coming down here. Jamie Dimon is now down here, who's the biggest of them all.
Yeah. You've recently served as a special envoy to the Middle East. Now you have this new title, special envoy for peace missions, because you're doing peace missions all over the world. You have been at the forefront, at the tip of the spear of some of the most relevant geopolitical events really of the last few years. There's part of your story many may not know. Let's take a look at this video.
Defined a generation. Towers of glass and steel that touched the clouds. But then everything stopped. And they said to me, 'You're never going to have a bigger hit than that in your life.' Losing a child. We're going to do everything possible. In the silence that followed loss, he discovered something greater than success. From the pain of losing one life, he found meaning in helping rebuild many. The days of blank checks are over. From shaping cities to helping shape peace. This finish line is about saving lives. Because some builders raise towers and others rebuild the world within us.
You talked about this on 60 Minutes and it was so powerful. You lost your son. And that horrible event in your life has enabled you in this job to actually be empathetic across the line with other people who have similar situations.
Yeah, I feel that my boy Andrew puts his hand on my back and takes me to these places. And it began shortly after his death. I met multiple families whose families had buried children and I became friends with them. And this job is the most blessed of them all. The president gave me this opportunity. I sometimes I don't even know how to thank him. He thanks me all the time. I say, 'Sir, I need to thank you. I'm getting more out of this than the other side is.' I met so many families. Brett, one of the things that got me through my boy's death is understanding that other people had it worse than me. I met a family who buried three children out of four. And so I met those hostage families and I remember thinking, what would every night be for me if I went to sleep and I had a daughter who was there and she was being mistreated? How would I deal with that? Or a son who was in the military and wasn't being treated correctly? On some level, my son's death was quick. The notice was fast to me. I heard about it from the doctors at Cedar Sinai. It's the only time in my life I fainted. And I just don't even remember maybe 15 seconds of it. And I think these people had it a lot worse than me. If I was going to lose a child, I wouldn't want to lose a child that way, being terrorized every single night. And we became friends and bonded with them. I remember when I'm probably going to be traveling to Israel over the weekend for one of the funerals and I was talking to the Neutras and the Chens who just got their children back. And I thought to myself, I know I don't want to call it a happy moment because I know it's bittersweet. They know their child was gone, but sometimes you can't come to terms with it. And I'll tell you, I'll point something out. Every family who came to the White House to see me, I would go down to the president and I would say, 'So and so is here.' And he knew who they all were. And he didn't refuse a single visit, Brett. And he became, I think, as emotionally impacted as I did. He doesn't, as you well know, you're a good friend, he doesn't like to show that part of his personality, but he's an incredible human being. He really is. And he didn't refuse a single visit. That's old school. He heard what it was like, the struggle they had been going through. And I don't know, it's kind of amazing to have a president who is that compassionate and yet he doesn't get acknowledged for it.
You've had some massive success in your business career, huge properties that launched and made you a lot of money, your company a lot of money. But that success compared to watching those hostages hug their families after all that time. Just put that in context.
I'd give it all up. I mean, I would. I don't take a salary. I pay for all my own expenses. I travel all over the world. I don't ask for a gas. I don't mean this to be a testament to me. I'm saying to you that it's worth more than any form of money to help people, to bring lives home, to feel like I do it. To feel like my boy's death now means something to me. It means that I get to carry on with his spirit. I actually said this very same thing to Ruby Chen yesterday. I said, 'Your boy, look at you lost your son. He fought on behalf of his country. His remains just came back. The funeral is Sunday.' I said, 'Look at you and your wife. You were indefatigable in pursuing his remains back, but you raised public consciousness about these people in the tunnels who were being held.' And that's what allowed us to create the pressure to bring everybody home. That's you having done it on his behalf. That's a memory, a feeling that you'll have for the rest of your life. And they're not going to stop fighting ever again. These people, they're not going to give up for any of the remaining bodies.
A lot of business people, entrepreneurs in this audience. You've dealt with some of the most complex negotiations now and dynamics around the world. You obviously dealt with complex negotiations in your business life before that. But what did you learn about negotiation and trust and leadership since being in this job?
Well, trust and integrity is everything. People have to respect you and believe in you. World leaders today respect and trust the United States of America because of Donald Trump's leadership. And that's just a fact. He is... I don't think they're used to that. I think they were used to people before this election who would say certain things and not do what they say. And he does what he says, and it carries a lot of weight in the world.
The Abraham Accords kind of reshaped obviously parts of the Middle East political and economic landscape. From your perspective, what's the next frontier for regional collaboration and what does that look like?
Well, look, Abraham Accords are big. I'm flying back to Washington tonight because we're going to announce tonight another country coming into the Abraham Accords tonight.
So, do you want to lift the curtain here or do you want to... I have a show at 6:00 tonight. I don't know if it's out yet.
And the president constantly says that he thinks it's important. And you know how I do my job because I do it in this way and I'm not a leaker.
All right. So, if you could tell me before the special report, that'd be helpful.
I think it's going to be news by like 6:30 tonight.
Okay. All right. We'll get it on. But bigger picture, next frontier. You think more things are happening. Dominoes are falling.
Well, look, the critical piece of Gaza now is implementing. I was on the phone before I just got in with the Turkish foreign minister with Ron Durmer. So, Jared and I and a very, very strong team are very focused on implementation. What I learned in the real estate business is just because you bought the deal didn't mean you were going to make any money from it. So you really had to be focused on the execution, what the exit plan was, and execute correctly. And that's what we're doing in Gaza. And I think if we hold it together, then we'll have even more credibility around the world. And I'm very confident we will hold it together and we will complete the mission. I also think that what we're trying to do in Gaza with the CMCC, where we're bringing a lot of countries together consensually to work with one another, that is the paradigm or the model for what will happen in Ukraine and Russia when we settle that. And we will settle it. And I think that's probably the most important one to settle next.
Let me just finish with Gaza. For some people who look at it and say it's stuck in second gear and it's not moving forward, I know you see things that we don't see. The thought was that these Gulf nations, perhaps other Arab countries, were going to put forces in and then Hamas would disarm eventually. You're saying it is step by step moving that way.
Well, first of all, Hamas has always indicated that they would disarm. They've said so. They've said it to us directly in that famous meeting that Jared had with them. And so I hope that they keep their word because I think if they do, they'll understand that the development plan that we have for Gaza is really terrific, a lot better than anyone has ever discussed before. How we're going to finance it, aspirational upside for the people to be a part of it, a tremendous jobs program. So I think as people begin to see what we're going to do there, they're going to be very, very bought in. But that said, to explain Hamas's position, we are right in the middle of standing up a decommissioning process of weapons, a demilitarization, an amnesty program. And Hamas has always said that we're going to need the international security force to come in here and be the layer who they give the weapons to. And we haven't finished that yet. That hopefully finishes in the next three weeks. And we think that'll be the opportunity. That'll be the inflection point where we see if everyone's going to do as they say they're going to do and demilitarize. And we may even get a look, by the way, in a microcosm sort of way, we may see the model of what we're trying to do here with these 200 fighters who are trapped in Rafa and whether they're going to be able to raise their hands, walk out, turn over their weapons. So this will be one of the tests.
You talk about Russia, Ukraine. You talked about trust and leadership. It seems like people looking from the outside and maybe on the inside don't really believe they could trust Russian President Vladimir Putin. You suggest that it is moving forward. What would you say to this group?
Well, I've met with him six times and they were... I don't know that there was a meeting less than four hours, and some meetings were as long as five hours. And I think it's a tough struggle. I think we have a lot of work to do with regard to security protocols for Ukraine. There's a lot of discussion that technical teams have to have happen at the lower level before the leaders can get to a deal. But I sense that there's some progress today. But I think it's a tough conflict. I think that both sides don't trust each other. And that's a really difficult place to be. It's the same issues we had in Israel. Hamas thinks that Israel will not keep its word. And Israel feels that Hamas will not keep its word. And we had some very straightforward, blunt conversations with both sides about needing to take the chance. And I am hopeful that in the Russia-Ukraine conflict, people will make bold leadership decisions and take that chance.
What surprised you most about working in government compared to the private sector?
God, I think the private sector was a setup for me. It really was. And New York's a tough place and it's certainly a tough place to crack into. But we managed to do it and it was all about hard work. I don't think I took a vacation in the first three or four years of my professional life. You couldn't find people today who would tell you that. So I think it's about a lot of hard work. And I'm working for a man, Brett, as you know, who has this obsessive, indomitable streak. Nothing satisfies him after you've told him that you've made the deal. And I don't mean that he's not grateful for it. He wants to push on and get the next one done. That's who he is. He just wants to make the world a better place and it is this constant drive to do that. I remember when we called the president, we said we had a deal, Jared and I, we had a deal in Gaza, and he said, 'That's wonderful. How we doing in Russia?' And I think that's who you want in a commander-in-chief. And I'm hard driving like that, too. Maybe not as much as him, but his energy level is so powerful. I was with him yesterday and he's traveling in here to do this and then he's going back to do God knows what. I think my schedule is hectic. It's small compared to his. So he inspires his team. That's why his team is so successful now. First of all, it's a tight team. It's a really loyal team. They're pro-him, for him. I tell the president this all the time. And I don't know, it's just one of the most... I think it's the most blessed experience of my life to be doing what I'm doing.
As you talk to small business owners, entrepreneurs yesterday, Ken Griffin said, 'Hustle. If you can out-hustle, you can beat 90% of the folks who are out there.'
Yeah, I totally agree with Ken. Totally. I would... you couldn't say it better. And it's simple, but it's true. Out-hustle. I agree with that. Out-work people. I remember when I got my first job, they told me it started at 8. My father told me to get in at 7:00. I got in at 7:00 every single day. And he said to me, 'Never get in the elevator before you know that the boss has gotten in the elevator first.' And so out-hustle was the message. And I think you got to do that.
How did the experience of representing your country, engaging with leaders across the Middle East, across the world, change your view of leadership, of legacy, of where America stands in the world, that leadership matters, that one person can matter?
Donald Trump's election is so consequential, it changed everything out there. And that tells you how important it is. Policy matters. You look at every one of all of the initiatives that he's doing now. It's all clicking. It's all working out there. And the world is becoming a better and a safer place. And I just think government matters. Like I tell my children now, you should think about some sort of civic service. I think it makes you feel a lot better. Makes you feel better about yourself. I think national service... when I go to Israel and I meet these young kids who are all in the military, 18 years old, you're in the military, but they're proud of it. They're serving their country. And I think we would do well with that.
What do you want your legacy to be?
Well, I hope my legacy is that I'm remembered as a good person who tried to do things in the memory of his son.
