On the Jacob Beer Show today, I am so happy to have on cryptocurrency expert Chris Larsen. How are you doing today?
Doing great. How are you?
Pretty good. So take us through, where did the entrepreneurial journey start for you at a young age?
Yeah, I mean, it probably started when I was, I guess, 15. I actually had an auto dent repairing company in my front yard, so that was my first taste. And you know, there's good things and bad things about having your own business. Bad is when your customers don't pay you, but it's nice to be your own boss. So I guess that's when I got the bug.
Awesome. And for you, would you ever imagine yourself working for somebody else, or has it just always been something where you know you want to run the company yourself? Kind of what's that been like for you running your own companies over the last few years? You've now had three startups that have all succeeded in great places, so what's that kind of been like for you?
Well, I had many jobs where I had bosses. Boy, I think I just about every odd job you can imagine, so I do know what it's like to work in an organization. And I never really felt great having a boss, so I guess you may call that a character flaw. I do like being the designer of my own destiny, and that's what's so great about having a business, even with all the stress you've got to put up with, especially in those early days when you don't have money, you don't know where you're going to get the money, you're getting told no all over the place. I mean, it's incredibly stressful. You don't sleep, you don't eat, but in the end, there's nothing like it. And there's nothing like it in the country we live in, right? We live in a country of entrepreneurs. America is business, so this is where you want to be if you're entrepreneurial.
Correct. Land of free markets. And obviously you mentioned sleep. If you don't mind me asking, what was it like in the early days when you say you got six hours of sleep or even less than that in your early entrepreneurial days?
Six hours would have been great. No, I mean, you're talking two hours. I mean, always just sleep deprived. You know, I would say this though, I didn't do a very good job of trying to figure out sleep, and sleep is really important. Now I sleep great, but I spent time figuring it out and getting to a routine. So look, as an entrepreneur, these are like athletic events, right? You got to take care of your body and mind or you're just not going to be effective. So yeah, it was not a good thing. I think this is pretty common, especially in the first couple years when the stress is just overwhelming and you just can't shut the mind off. But it is something entrepreneurs need to pay attention to: eating right, exercise, sleeping. This is why it helps to have a co-founder, by the way. I always found having a co-founder, they're the only ones that understand what you're going through, and that way you can sort of commiserate with each other and you could trade off when one has full capabilities and the other might be overly stressed. So I think it's always great to have two co-founders, never more than two co-founders though. Three is like 3D chess, it never works.
Wow. Well, thank you for explaining that because I've interviewed several entrepreneurs and they've never mentioned that impact right there. I know you're a very busy man, only have a few more minutes, but what is something that looking back you would do differently? If there was anything that you would do differently, obviously a lot of people could look and say everything turned out very well for you, but would there be any small things you would do differently if you were 19, 20, 21?
Well, yeah, I think spend more time in the early days of making sure you get the team, an awesome team, the team that you need to succeed. Your instincts early on are just kind of like taking anybody that's going to be part of your vision, and that can hurt you, right? So I think, and I think this is what Elon does really well, by the way, the greatest entrepreneur in the history of the world. He builds the right team from the early days, even if it's more expensive, even if it's harder to recruit. Take the time to get the right people. And when you don't have the right person, when you know that, don't let them on, right? Or if you realize it later, make sure you separate from them. So this is all about your team.
Which goes into our next topic that I wanted to discuss real quickly, which was what does it take to run big companies? Because obviously we kind of mentioned how you start, you mentioned the hustle, the grind, how you don't get sleep, how you should never have more than two or three co-founders. But what is it like once you've made it and then you have thousands and thousands of employees or hundreds of employees? What's that leadership like in your opinion from your aspect?
Well, yeah, so it's a great question. I think number one, you have to recognize what kind of person are you. So are you the kind of person that can do the early startup, which is about basically reality suspension, right? You're doing something that no one's done and everybody you talk to will say that's a stupid idea that will never work, right? So you have to be able to withstand that. That's a certain type of person. When you get bigger though, what you're talking about, that's very different. That's product-market fit, that's now OKRs, your objectives and your goals, and then managing to them and holding people accountable. That's a completely different world. And I recognized early on I'm good at the first part and I'm terrible at the second part. So what I did at Ripple, for example, is in 2016, after we were around for five years, recognized okay, we're at that point of product-market fit, I need somebody who's really good at that second part. And that's why I brought on Brad Garlinghouse and I stepped down and became controlling shareholder but executive chair. So I think very few people, maybe Bill Gates, right, Elon Musk, who can do both, but I think that's a rare person.
Very true. And just three last quick, I like to call them fireball questions. Was there an entrepreneur that has inspired you? I mean, you mentioned Elon Musk, but obviously going back from your early days long before he was at the top, was there somebody who inspired you, like a John D. Rockefeller or anybody like that?
