As we've invested $200 plus million dollars a year now in generative AI, we're going to see, I think, some really significant breakthroughs over the next few years, which will be great for humanity. I also think we'll see some really scary examples, too.
How important is the cyber security aspect to all?
Critical. Absolutely critical. We welcome more and more startups coming into the space, but we do notice that a number of them are pretty cavalier when it comes to this.
They pointed a finger and said radical leftist. What is your response to that?
We focus on the facts.
So, we're going to see even bigger winners. And I think the consequences for the losers will be even quicker to materialize. I think companies that are not figuring out how this next new wave of generative AI technologies will affect their customers, their businesses are at peril.
We are in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and we're going to be talking to the CEO of Thomson Reuters, Steve Hasker. Thomson Reuters is a global content and technology company and they did $7.3 billion in revenue in 2024. They have over 26,000 employees globally. We're going to be talking to Steve about AI, all the sectors of their business and the media landscape that they face today. I'm William Salvi and this is the CEO series where we have real conversations with real CEOs. I hope you subscribe to our channel. We have more stories coming out with more CEOs and more businesses. And let's go talk to Steve.
We are with the CEO of Thomson Reuters, Steve Hasker. Steve, thank you for joining us.
Hey, Will. Good to be here. Thanks.
So, when we were first presented with this opportunity, I saw Thomson Reuters and all I thought was the media arm because that's kind of what I see all the time. So, if you could, could you talk about the entirety of the business and just tell us a little bit more about it because I think most people would probably think of Reuters versus...
Yeah, I mean Reuters is the part of the brand that people recognize because it's the largest and oldest news agency in the world. So, the Reuters part of the business is the largest wholesaler of news across the world. 2,700 journalists who really are the source of a lot of the news that we consume not only through Reuters.com but through all sorts of media outlets that each of us use every day. The rest of the business which is really 90 plus percent of our revenues serves professionals in what we call the big three segments. So we serve legal professionals both law firms, in-house, court systems, judges, attorneys general etc. We serve tax and accounting professionals and auditors and then we serve corporations including the heads of tax, the general counsel and that as I said is 90 plus percent of our business.
How does that affect your business relationships because you do have the media arm and it reports on all things. You know a number of friends and former colleagues who are CEOs have had stories written about their businesses and even then that they haven't liked.
They have acknowledged the fact that the Reuters team has written a story that was fact-based and was free of bias. And so while they may not have liked, you know, the particular story itself, they've always respected that.
They can't get mad at you just being like, 'Look, we're trying to be our best at just...'
Can you talk more about generative AI and AI changing the tax and legal landscape?
When you think about generative AI, it really has the ability to transform the production of the first version of a document. So whether that's the first version of a research memo, the first version of a contract or a briefing or an opinion, all of these things can be produced by automated tools within a GenAI environment. And that we think is going to change the business model of the law firms. It's going to change the apprenticeship model, the kinds of talent that law firms bring in, the amount that they spend on technology. And it'll start to, I think, change attorney-client privilege and how lawyers think about data privacy and data protections. So all of those things, I think, over the next few years will start to transform as a result of GenAI. And you can apply versions of that thinking to the tax and accounting and the audit professions as well. These are professions that are to varying degrees ripe for increasing automation, enabling the professionals to do less of the grunt work and more of the sort of value-added, you know, the highly specialized thinking and applying judgment. And I think that's what we're going to see over the next 3 to 5 years.
Do you have any fears about job displacement?
The belief here at Thomson Reuters is that we will not be replaced by AI but we may well be replaced by people who are using AI. So in other words, you know, I think it's sort of incumbent upon all of us to understand these technologies, start getting comfortable and using them for our benefit and for the benefit of the institutions we work. I think if we don't cross that bridge, then we're at risk. But to predict widescale job losses, job replacement, I think, you know, requires a set of assumptions around level of economic activity and what new jobs and entirely new professions are going to be created by AI and it's too early to do that.
Since we're talking about such sensitive information, how important is the cyber security aspect to all?
Critical, absolutely critical. I mean, if you think about, you know, the idea of a law firm's document management system and all of the IP that's contained within that, but more importantly, the client sensitive information, the client proprietary information, if that were to leak into a model and leak from a model to a competitor, competitive firm or heaven forbid a client's competitor, then you know, that's a big step backwards for generative AI and its application to the legal profession. So the way we think about this is to say that is sacrosanct. As a client or customer of TR, your IP cannot and will not be output of a generative AI product of ours. And you know we welcome more and more startups coming into the space but we do notice that a number of them are pretty cavalier when it comes to this.
Did you always know you wanted to be CEO of a large company like this?
I'm not someone who's ever had a career plan. You know, I envy people who say, 'Okay, I want to go from here to here to here and I have a well-trodden path.' I never had that in mind. You know, I came from a family where my mother was a social worker and had a psychology degree and my father was an engineer turned CEO. So, I had a sense of what it might be like to run a business. And I was sort of always attracted to that, but I never set out on that path necessarily. What I've been able to do though is to focus on opportunities that afforded me the chance to learn in the course of my career. I've always used that question, will I learn more if I say yes to this opportunity versus stay where I am? And I've always followed that and it's served me pretty well.
Both your father and your mother had a big impact on you and who you became.
The two attributes that both of my parents had or have is they're both hardworking. There was sort of never a sense of entitlement or certainly not one that I detected. Everything that any of us achieve we had to earn. And I think the second is a degree of modesty. You know, and that my mother particularly has that in terms of there are things you can learn from everybody. And if you shut up and listen to them, they'll teach you something.
Do you have any siblings, too?
Yeah, I have an older sister. She's the CEO of an institution in Australia called Vicsport, which is the big body for community sports. And I have a younger brother who's a cattle farmer.
What are your general thoughts on the media landscape as the CEO? I know there's a separation of church and state there with the company, but tell me a little bit.
I'm in that category of people who sort of hopefully in a healthy way paranoid about all of our end markets. So not just the news and media end market but the legal, the tax and accounting and the audit, the risk and compliance within news. I mean I think we've seen huge disruption as a result of first digital distribution and then social media and a ubiquity of access to news and also the rise of citizen journalism. It's worth remembering that Reuters since the early 1940s and now all of Thomson Reuters is guided by what we call the trust principles. And in essence, what those principles dictate that we do is that we stay independent. We focus on independent, third-party, fact-based, free from bias. And I think in this environment there's never been a more important time for a news service to stick to those principles. We will make sure that our facts are triple checked, we will make sure that there are at least three people prepared to go on the record and substantiate that which we are asserting. I think that provides us not only with an essential role to play in this environment but also a competitive advantage. You know, it's not the most entertaining news source or service that you're going to be able to access, but that's its secret.
That's not the point either. That's not the point. Exactly. Do you think that there are too many CEOs out there, and I mean that specifically like CEOs of large companies, and I'm not asking to talk about one in particular, but we hear a lot about certain CEOs right now, and they're very media forward. And sometimes I think they're overexposed. And so I guess my question is do you think there's a little too much of that in the world right now where people aren't having as much humility and not enough listening?
Look, I think we'll have to balance. You know, there's certainly I think there's a role for business to play in having a voice on all manner of issues and certainly some CEOs are comfortable wading into that space. The way I've interpreted my role is it is first and foremost leading Thomson Reuters for the benefit of our customers, our colleagues and our shareholders and doing that as best I can and that consumes all of my time.
When we were first presented with the opportunity, I know about Reuters the news division that they have. I did not know about how dynamic this company was, nor did I know how large or the history of the company. I found it very interesting that the news division accounted for 10% of their business. And then 90% was for everything else. But we all know about Reuters. And on top of that, Steve had mentioned that as the CEO of a global company, he's had dialogue with other CEOs that the news division covers. That's a very interesting dynamic that Steve has to deal with and that the leadership team has to deal with because at the end of the day they are providing products and services to a lot of clients of theirs and customers of theirs, but they also have a news division that's very in the middle and reports the truth and facts as they see them. So that's just an interesting dynamic that the CEO has to deal with. So I loved hearing his perspective on that.
Two of the most powerful men tweeted about you and they said radical leftist. One, what is your response to that? And then two, how do as the CEO, how do you manage outside noise like that? Because you don't want two people with that much influence to say things like that. So I'm just interested in your thoughts.
Yeah, I mean, as I said, we're governed by the trust principles. We adhere to the trust principles. We are neither left nor right. And so if you consume our news, any one of our stories, I think you see that, you know, it comes through in the way we report the facts and we focus on the facts.
