This is the deposition of Mr. Leslie H. Wexner conducted by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform under the authority granted to it pursuant to House Rule 10. Accordingly, House Rule 10 grants the committee broad jurisdiction for the committee to conduct investigations of any matter at any time. On January 7th, 2026, the committee voted to approve a motion directing the chairman to authorize and issue a subpoena to you for a deposition. On January 23rd, 2026, Chairman Comer issued a subpoena for Mr. Wexner to appear today for a deposition in furtherance of the committee's investigation into the actions and investigations of Mr. Jeffrey Epstein and Miss Ghislaine Maxwell. I will enter the subpoena and corresponding cover letter as exhibit one. The committee noticed the deposition for Mr. Wexner on February 9th, 2026. I will enter the notice for this deposition as exhibit 2.
Can the witness please state his name and spell his last name for the record.
Thank you. Under the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform's rules, you are allowed to have a counsel present to advise you during this deposition. Do you have a counsel representing you in a personal capacity present with you today?
Will counsel please identify themselves for the record.
Michael Levy of Ellerman and Zen Levy on behalf of Mr. Wexner.
Elizabeth Martin with Ellerman and Zen Levy for Mr. Wexner.
And Matthew Ziger from Ziger Tickets and Little on behalf of Mr. Wexner.
For the record, starting with the majority staff, can the additional staff members please introduce themselves with their name, title, and affiliation.
Congresswoman from Phoenix, Arizona.
Thank you all. Mr. Wexner, before we begin, I would like to go over the ground rules for this deposition. The questioning will proceed in rounds. The majority will ask questions for an hour and then the minority will have an opportunity to ask questions for an hour if they choose. To the extent members have questions for the witness, they will be propounded during their side's respective rounds. The clock will stop if you need to confer with counsel, your counsel is speaking, and when members or staff are speaking during the opposing side's rounds of questions. We will alternate back and forth until there are no more questions. Do you understand?
There is a court reporter taking down everything I say and everything you say to make a written record of the interview. For the record to be clear, please wait until the staffer questioning you finishes each question before you begin your answer. And the staffer will wait until you finish your response before proceeding to the next question. Further, to ensure the court reporter can properly record this deposition, please speak clearly, concisely, and slowly. Also, the court reporter cannot record non-verbal answers such as nodding or shaking your head. So, it is important that you answer each question with an audible verbal answer. Do you understand?
Exhibits may be entered into the record. Majority exhibits will be identified numerically. Minority exhibits will be identified alphabetically. Do you understand?
We want you to answer our questions in the most complete and truthful manner possible. So, we will take our time. If you have any questions or do not fully understand the question, please let us know. We will attempt to clarify, add context to, or rephrase our questions. We ask about specific conversations or events in the past and you are unable to recall the exact words or details. You should testify to the substance of those conversations or events to the best of your recollection. If you recall only a part of the conversation or event, you should give us your best recollection of those events or parts of the conversations that you do recall. Do you understand?
You are required by law to answer questions from Congress truthfully. This also applies to questions posed by congressional staff in this deposition. Do you understand?
If at any time you knowingly make false statements, you could be subject to criminal prosecution, including but not limited to perjury. Do you understand?
This includes both knowingly providing false testimony, but also stating that you do not recall or remember something when in fact you do. Do you understand?
Furthermore, you cannot tell half-truths or exclude information necessary to make the statements accurate. You are required to provide all information that would make your response truthful. A deliberate failure to disclose information can constitute a false statement. Do you understand?
Is there any reason you are unable to provide truthful testimony in today's interview?
Please note if you wish to assert a privilege over any statement today, that assertion must comply with the rules of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. Pursuant to that, committee rule 16C1 states for the chair to consider assertions of privilege over testimony or statements, witnesses or entities must clearly state the specific privilege being asserted and the reason for the assertion on or before the scheduled date, testimony, or appearance. For the purposes of this deposition, objections must be stated concisely and in a non-argumentative and non-suggestive manner. If the witness refuses to answer a question to preserve a privilege, the committee may seek a ruling from the chair. If the chair overrules any such objection, the witness shall be ordered to answer. If the witness continues to refuse to answer a question despite being ordered to do so, the witness may be subject to sanction. Do you understand?
Ordinarily, we take a five-minute break at the end of each hour of questioning, but if you need a longer break or a break before that, please let us know and we will be happy to accommodate. However, to the extent that there is a pending question, we would ask that you finish answering the question before we take a break. Do you understand?
Finally, I will note for everyone here today that the contents of what we discuss in the deposition is confidential under the House deposition regulation. Under the rules, the chairman and ranking minority members shall consult before any release of testimony or transcripts including portions thereof. This means it is a violation of House and committee rules to disclose contents of this deposition prior to its official release. For this reason, the marked exhibits that we will use today will remain with the court reporter so that they can go into the official transcript and any copies of those exhibits will be kept at the table or returned to us when we wrap up. Can the reporter please swear in the witness?
Would you raise your right hands for me, please? Do you solemnly declare and affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Do you have any questions before we begin?
We will go back on the record. Another member of Congress joined. Can he please identify himself for the record?
Dave, California.
The time reads 10:17 and the majority's time will begin now.
Mr. Wexner, is it true that you submitted a statement to the committee this morning?
I will now enter as exhibit three, the statement of Leslie H. Wexner submitted to the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, February 18th, 2026. Mr. Wexner, let's start by briefly discussing your education and experience. Where did you attend undergraduate school?
The Ohio State University.
And what degree did you graduate with?
And I know you had a long career, but can you briefly summarize your professional career for the committee?
Well, I was raised in a very poor family and we had no money and I had an aunt Ida and she gave me a loan of her life savings which was $5,000 and on the understanding I could put it in the bank so it appeared that I'd have money and I could borrow money from a bank. And I opened a store in 1963 and I opened a store every year for the next five or six years and so by 1969 I had six stores. I took that company public not to raise money because it was remarkably successful and I wanted the associates of the business to own a piece of the business. So I gave stock to virtually everybody that worked in the stores and the back rooms and cleaning people. I mean, I'm very proud of that. And then opened more stores and more stores and figured out at one point that there was a limit to how many limited stores I could open. So I opened up, invented a second business called Express and opened up more and more stores and what the business then turned into was the largest multi-division fashion specialty business in the world. And in hindsight, I kind of invented multi-store national and international store retailing. And just remarkable as I look back, I don't know how I did it but probably in my lifetime I opened 10,000 stores around the world, probably 20 different brands. So that's what I did. And that's what I did in business. Started to tell you what I do personally, but that's another story.
Thank you. Let's move on to your relationship with Mr. Epstein. When did you first meet Jeffrey Epstein?
Probably 35 years ago. 40 years ago. I don't remember exactly. And met him through friends.
Approximately what year would you have met him?
Probably between 80 and 85. I don't remember.
And how did you first come to meet Mr. Epstein?
It was really by accident. I was friends with a couple, Bob and Wendy Meister, and I was in Florida and I'd never been to Florida. So, they were driving me around showing me what South Florida looked like and passed, and they showed me the Breakers Hotel and they were just driving around the driveway and Bob stopped the car and he said, 'There's somebody you should meet.' A really smart, savvy guy named Jeffrey Epstein. And so they stopped the car. I was sitting in the back seat and they introduced me to Jeffrey and we drove off. That was about it.
So at that time you had no knowledge of Mr. Epstein until Mr. Meister introduced you to him.
Never heard of him, never saw him, never met him.
Did Mr. Meister ever raise any concerns about Mr. Epstein?
And you meet him in Florida. What's your first impression of Mr. Epstein?
Kind of a medium dark-haired guy. I don't remember saying much more, shaking his hands or maybe nodding from the backseat of the car.
What was your first impression of Mr. Epstein? Just a guy of medium height and with dark hair at that time. Did you have any understanding of what he did for work?
Did you understand Mr. Epstein to already be wealthy when you met him?
At this time, I'd like to introduce what will be marked as majority exhibit four. This is a Vanity Fair article entitled 'Inside Jeffrey Epstein's Bond with Les Wexner' from 2021. The article reports on the origins of your relationship with Mr. Wexner.
I'll note a hearsay objection for the record.
For the record here, to apply the congressional definition. I'm noting my objection. I'm not instructing him not to answer. I'm noting that this is hearsay. That's all.
So in the article it says that you met Epstein sometime around 1986. Consistent with your testimony today, it says that you were introduced by Mr. Meister. Do you agree with the article's characterization?
I don't know. I remember seeing the article.
Do you agree with the article's characterization that you met Mr. Epstein through Mr. Meister?
Objection. What characterization? He said he didn't read it. What characterization are you referring to?
So, you previously testified that Mr. Meister introduced you to Epstein. Is that right?
Meister. Bob and Wendy introduced me to Jeffrey Epstein.
And at that time, what was your relationship with Bob and Wendy Meister?
Well, I met Bob because he was a national international insurance broker and they had our business insurance business and Bob wanted me to meet his wife and Bob and Wendy became friends.
Did you trust Mr. Meister with advice?
Well, I trust him with insurance advice because that's what he did. He was the vice chairman of an international insurance company, but I didn't trust him for business advice or anything beyond the scope of his professional expertise.
I want to direct your attention to page nine of the article. And we're specifically looking at the paragraph, the sixth paragraph from the bottom. It starts 'In September 1997.' And when you're ready, I'll read the relevant section. It reads, 'In September 1997, Wexner celebrated his 60th birthday with a dinner at his Ohio estate. Meister says he used the occasion to once again tell Wexner how untrustworthy Epstein was. My wife and I told him and Abigail hundreds of times to stay away from Epstein.' Mr. Wexner, do you recall this occurring?
Objection. Double hearsay.
Are you directing your witness not to answer?
No, no, no. I will direct the witness not to answer if that's my intent. I'm just raising an objection for the record.
I need to understand this. I never had a birthday party for myself. In fact, I never had birthday parties that my mom and dad just didn't do that. And Abigail's been great because every milestone birthday has been a surprise party. And I think I don't remember for sure, but the 60th birthday party if Senator Lieberman was there and Marshall Rose was there, Shimon Peres was there, John Glenn was there, Max Fisher was there. And I don't think he was there. So he never said this. He wasn't there and had never said this.
Let me ask you a different question, Mr. Wexner. Do you recall Mr. Meister and his wife repeatedly warning you to stay away from Epstein?
I want to now direct your attention to the fifth page. And we are looking at the sixth full paragraph.
For the record, it reads, 'Soon after introducing Wexner and Epstein, Meister started hearing disturbing stories about Epstein's sexual proclivities. Think of whatever the worst thing anyone could do is, and Epstein did them all,' Meister said. Did Meister ever express concerns related to Mr. Epstein's sexual proclivities?
Objection. Double hearsay. The answer is never.
The very next sentence continues. 'Epstein showed up unannounced at Meister's Park Avenue apartment with five models for Meister's sexual entertainment. Epstein thought he was bringing me a gift.' According to Mr. Meister, were you aware of this occurring?
Objection. Double hearsay.
Did Mr. Epstein ever present you with women for your sexual entertainment?
Mr. Wexner, at any time did Jeffrey Epstein ever inform or represent to you that he was a part of any intelligence service of any nation, including the United States?
Did you ever learn that he was involved with any intelligence service?
Let's move on to talking about Miss Maxwell. When did you first meet Ghislaine Maxwell?
Probably about the time that I got engaged to Abigail. So, must have been about 1990.
And do you recall how you met Miss Maxwell?
Well, Jeffrey wanted me to meet the person he was going to marry and I was engaged to Abigail.
Do you have any recollection of where you met Miss Maxwell?
And based on your testimony, is it fair to say that Mr. Epstein introduced you to Maxwell?
And you mentioned it previously, but what was your understanding of Miss Maxwell's relationship to Mr. Epstein?
They dated. They were in love. They were going to get married.
Would you characterize it as a monogamous relationship?
So during this period you had no knowledge of Mr. Epstein ever having any relationship with any man or woman besides Miss Maxwell?
How would you characterize your relationship with Miss Maxwell?
Like Wendy Meister was Bob's wife and we were friendly and friends. I met Ghislaine Maxwell because she was Jeffrey's girlfriend, fiance. It never went beyond that. I knew she was smart. I think she was an honors graduate of Cambridge or something. So, she spoke with an English accent. So, I thought he was really lucky because he finally met somebody that was really smart, nice.
And you said that Miss Maxwell was Epstein's fiance. So, it was your understanding that they were engaged to be married.
I don't remember if they were engaged to be married or they were planning to get married, but I was engaged and they talked about they were going to get married. So, I don't know if it was engagement or just they both agreed.
During your relationship with Miss Maxwell, how often did you see her?
Mr. Wexner, the committee is investigating the circumstances surrounding Mr. Epstein and Miss Maxwell and the trafficking and sexual abuse of young women or girls. Did Miss Maxwell ever introduce you to any young woman or girl?
No, I don't think she ever introduced me to any female or man.
Did Miss Maxwell ever ask you to introduce a young woman or girl to your friends or associates?
Did you ever introduce any young woman or girl that you met through Miss Maxwell to any of your friends or associates?
Objection assumes a fact not in evidence.
Question. Did you ever introduce any woman or girl that you met through Miss Maxwell to any of your friends or associates?
Did Miss Maxwell ever visit your home in New Albany, Ohio?
We're going to discuss your business relationship with Mr. Epstein in more detail later, but did Miss Maxwell ever play a role in your business relationship with Epstein?
During your relationship with Miss Maxwell, did she ever represent or inform you that she was a part of any intelligence service of any nation, including the United States?
Did you ever meet Ghislaine's father, Robert Maxwell?
When did you hire Mr. Epstein to officially work for you?
I think it was about the mid-80s.
Do you have any recollection of how long you knew Mr. Epstein prior to you hiring him?
Not specifically. Maybe I met him and that is it in the car and maybe it was six months or a year later that I asked Bob about I needed somebody to help me and I think he said, 'Did you talk to Jeffrey Epstein?' I think so. I'm guessing from when I met him first to actually having a conversation was probably a year.
Just to clarify, that's not actually the time that you hired him, though. That's the time you had the conversation.
For the record, you don't recall the exact date you said you hired him.
Another member of Congress has joined us. Can she please introduce herself for the record?
I mean, we have the video set up.
Okay, I'll try to speak louder. If I'm not speaking, if you wave something, it'll remind me.
Mr. Wexner, would you characterize your relationship with Mr. Epstein, at least initially, to be solely business related?
Did you at any time ever consider him to be a close friend?
How often did you interact with Mr. Epstein throughout your relationship?
A lot of phone conversations but meetings, didn't see him much. Most of the stuff I was traveling a lot because of business. So and it was erratic. He might call three times in an hour and I talked to him for three months. That's how I remember.
When you were interacting with Mr. Epstein, did you enjoy spending time with him?
Enjoyment was fun? No, it was work.
Can you elaborate on that? What were the nature of your interactions with Mr. Epstein?
Like professional, you know, this is what's going on. Have you paid this bill? Do you know about that? Or, you know, I took an inventory of your house and no one ever taken an inventory of your furniture. Do you know how much furniture you have? And it was like, no, I never thought about it. Well, you should know that I have an inventory. Things are buttoned up. It was like when an office... I don't think how can I explain it. It's like people talk about family offices and I managed all my stuff or my admin paid my bills because I was so busy and I realized it was a complexity of my personal life and somebody had to just do this stuff because it wasn't getting done properly. And so it was like, you know, professional, I guess what a fiduciary would do, more than what just your accountant would do or your lawyer would do and something was I thought was unfair for my secretary to do.
And you testified that you had at times he would call you three times a day. Is that a fair characterization of your testimony?
No. What I'm saying is that he would call me three times maybe in an hour. He wanted to tell me something about what he was doing or would ask me a question about taxes so he could understand what he was preparing. But he might not call me for three months, maybe six months. I wouldn't pay attention. It wasn't important at the time.
Mr. Wexner, is it your testimony today that your conversations with Mr. Epstein were predominantly focused on your business relationship with him?
That'd be very accurate. That would be very accurate.
What common interest did you share with Mr. Epstein outside of work?
So, you didn't have any personal relationship with Mr. Epstein whatsoever?
I don't think I ever went to lunch or dinner or a movie or had a cup of coffee with Jeffrey. And I thought about that recently and I'd say the same thing about my attorney. I'd never been to his office, my current attorney who's been our family attorney for 30 years. How could you... I mean I can't explain to myself how I could have an attorney who lives in Columbus who was my personal attorney and I'm friendly with and never visited his office. I just... my focus was on my business and my focus was on community before my family existed.
Until your family, not before.
Until, yeah, that's a better way of phrasing it.
This is a general question, but approximately how many years were you associated with Mr. Epstein?
And to be clear, you at no point ever considered him to be a friend?
No, I didn't see Jeffrey as a friend. I saw Jeffrey as I see Matt, my attorney, is a friend. We're friendly, but we're not friends. I mean, obviously someone that worked for you in a trust position and you're friendly with, you're not in a hostile, adversarial, argumentative position with the people that are advising you.
It's been reported repeatedly that you were close friends with Mr. Epstein. Why do you think people would come to that conclusion?
Objection. Hearsay.
Speculation because he would tell them that he told me he was friends. I mean, if you told me that you were friends with Bill Clinton, I would believe it. Or if anybody told me somebody was a friend, I would believe it. So I think the perspective that I have now and I think what's really important for this group to understand is that as I look back at it I was conned by the world Olympic all-time con artist. And when you look at I read in the news all the people he knew, royalty, kings, princes and all that. An incredible con artist.
Do you think Mr. Epstein thought you two to be friends?
Objection.
I don't know what he thought.
When did you learn that the Palm Beach Police Department was investigating Mr. Epstein?
Mr. Epstein was convicted in 2008. Did you maintain any contact with Mr. Epstein after his plea deal?
As I recall, concurrently with Abigail taking over the finances, and my wife is an M&A lawyer. She worked for Davis. She's really smart and she took over the finances and kind of concurrently she was discovering that he had stole money from us and concurrently finding out about these accusations and the criminal activity that he pursued. And when we found out about it, we severed relationships with him immediately.
Mr. Wexner, I appreciate the context, but when was the last time you were in contact with Mr. Epstein?
Did you have any contact with Mr. Epstein after 2008?
What happened in 2008? Again?
Mr. Epstein entered a plea deal related to the solicitation of minors.
Oh, okay. Never talked to him, never saw him. As far as I was concerned, once we knew how bad he was, he was dead.
Did Mr. Epstein ever ask you for personal favors of any kind?
Did you ever ask Mr. Epstein for personal favors of any kind?
How involved was Mr. Epstein in your personal life?
If you think about that, no, not at all really. I think he met Abigail after we were engaged and he didn't know we were going to be engaged because I didn't discuss my personal life with him. Or anything. He was kind of the business manager of my personal affairs and you know at the time I probably had 20 CEOs reporting to me and so I had business relationships. I was used to having business relationships with people whether it's attorneys, accountants, investment banks that we were doing business with, commercial banks, but I never had personal relationships with people that I worked with. I was pretty much a loner.
Is it true that Mr. Epstein oversaw your prenuptial agreement?
I don't recall that I had one.
If you did, would you consider that to be a business transaction between you and Mr. Epstein?
Some calls for speculation, but you can answer.
If I had one, I would guess I would have talked to my attorney.
Was Mr. Epstein involved in hiring personal staff?
I think the answer is none. I can't remember anybody that he would have met that I hired personally. I'm personally thinking also business and household staff, people like that. I can't think of an exception.
We will discuss your financial relationship with Mr. Epstein in greater detail later but broadly did Mr. Epstein ever ask you for any financial favors?
Let's talk about your property here in New Albany. When did you first buy the New Albany property?
Probably in the early mid-80s I started buying up the land. This was what you saw today if you drove around, this was all farmland. Where the house was was sad farm, so it was just in the country.
Did Mr. Epstein play any role in the acquisition of the property?
Did he play any role in the development of New Albany?
On your property, would you often conduct business meetings?
With anyone he's doing business with.
Okay. Including L Brands?
I think the only business meetings we ever had in the house were business meetings in L Brands community meetings, some university meetings, but no, I don't think we ever had a New Albany meeting as a business in the house. We'd have it at the New Albany office.
Mr. Wexner, did you ever meet with, socialize with, or otherwise engage with Jeffrey Epstein at your New Albany, Ohio home?
Did you ever meet with, socialize with, or otherwise engage with Jeffrey Epstein at your New Albany home?
I'm sure he was in the house, but I can't remember a specific time. I don't remember setting meetings with Jeffrey. Most of the business I had with him was over the phone.
Do you have any recollection of when he first visited the property?
And do you have any recollection of how often he would visit the property?
So, is it your testimony today that you would not have been aware of every time he visited the property here in New Albany?
Without a question, I wouldn't have known. It wasn't something I've explained to you. It's like that I wonder about now. Like Jeffrey would call the office and my admin would say, 'Mr. Epstein's on the phone. He has to talk to you right away.' And I pick up the phone say, 'What is it?' And he'd say, 'Well, I'm in Switzerland talking to a Swiss bank about something.' And he tried to explain it to me. He said, 'You wouldn't understand the transaction. It's really complex.' But I'm really busy, but I needed to tell you this or know that. And I'd say I'm in the middle of a meeting and I'd hang up and then as I said earlier 15 minutes later he might call me back and I'd look at it now and say he was probably in bed in New York. I didn't know where the hell he was.
Were you aware that Mr. Epstein stayed on your property?
I know he bought Jack Kessler's house but I don't know when he was there and that wasn't on your property. No, that's my neighbor's property, my business partner in New Albany's friend or his house, right?
Were you aware that Mr. Epstein stayed at one of your guest houses on the property?
No, that the house he stayed at was Jack Kessler's house, which is an adjacent property. It's about a half mile away.
Mr. Wexner, Epstein survivor Maria Farmer was reportedly brought to the guest house located on your property in 1996.
Objection. He's already told you it wasn't on his property.
I am only bringing up the recollection of an Epstein survivor. For the record, your client is welcome to provide a statement. So again, Maria Farmer was reportedly brought to the guest house in 1996. She stayed there for a summer and claimed she was assaulted there by Mr. Epstein and Miss Maxwell. Mr. Wexner, do you recall who Maria Farmer is?
I know her name from the press.
Did you ever meet Maria Farmer?
Is it your testimony today that you do not know whether Maria Farmer ever stayed on your property?
Do you have any reason to not believe Maria Farmer's account of being abused by Jeffrey Epstein on your property?
Objection. On his property.
Make sure I answer this correctly. I never met her. Didn't know she was here. Didn't know she was abused.
You have a large staff that works on your property in New Albany.
I'm laughing. I don't know. There's a lot of people around, but I don't know how many.
Can you estimate how many people are working on the property at any given time?
Do you have private security on the property?
I've had private security since 1975.
Are you aware of allegations that security staff on the property stayed with Maria Farmer until her family was able to pick her up?
I didn't know she was here, so I didn't know her. I didn't know she was here, so I didn't know about her. Pardon me.
And I believe that you testified to this earlier, but to your recollection, did Mr. Epstein personally own property near your home?
He bought the house from Jack. So half a mile away if that's near.
Was that the address at the 7500 block of King George Drive?
I don't know that address.
Are you aware of the entity New Albany Company LLC?
I think that's what we call the New Albany Company.
Why was this LLC organized?
Because it made business sense.
What was the LLC used for?
I would assume was for the New Albany project.
Was Jeffrey Epstein involved with this entity?
Only to the degree as a fiduciary financial advisor would be. As Dennis, it was a complex project and you know if you would the family office would look at it.
To be clear the LLC was used to develop surrounding properties in New Albany?
I don't know that. I would assume that it's an LLC or it could be the New Albany Company or corporate inc. I don't really know that.
How would Jeffrey Epstein travel to New Albany in the beginning of your relationship with him?
I would assume he flew. Either that or he took the train or drove.
Did he fly on your plane?
When he did fly on your plane, did you charge him for using it?
Do you have any recollection of when you first would have started providing flights to Mr. Epstein?
I think that's kind of a trick question. I don't think I ever provided flights for Mr. Epstein.
And you testified that he very rarely flew on your airplane. Can you elaborate on that?
The only time I really remember that I mentioned earlier, my wife would have surprise parties and I'd get on the airplane and there'd be acquaintances, you know, friends, you know, and I was always shocked who was there or some people might fly to wherever we were, the party was, which was always a surprise to me. And then some of guest friends would be at the party when I got there and that was another surprise. So I don't remember specifics.
So Mr. Epstein would have been invited to surprise parties for you?
Obviously. So because he was there.
You testified earlier that you didn't consider him a friend. Do you invite people you don't consider to be friends to surprise parties?
Objection assumes that he invited them.
Don't need to answer that again. Why would Mr. Epstein have been invited to these surprise parties?
My wife would have invited him.
Why do you think your wife would have invited him?
Because he was our financial advisor.
Did your wife consider him a friend?
Can we take a quick break?
Yes, we can go off the record.
We can go back on the record. The time is 11:10. We took a short break for the witness to confer with counsel. We have approximately 15 minutes left in the majority's hour. We understand that the witness would like to make a statement of clarification.
Yeah, I think I was inaccurate in that I remember Jeffrey being on a plane at a surprise birthday party, but I don't remember him being at the party because I think you asked the question at the party and then where did he go? I don't remember him being at the party. I can remember being on the plane.
You bring up the surprise party. On the plane, do you recall where the plane was going?
This party wasn't on the plane.
Where was this surprise party?
I don't... There were a bunch of them. I don't remember specifically which one it was.
Were you on every flight with Mr. Epstein when you traveled on your plane?
Objection. How's he supposed to know that?
If he doesn't, he's not. So, say the question again.
Would Mr. Epstein ever use your plane while you were not present?
Did Mr. Epstein have to ask you for permission to use your plane?
He would have, but he never did.
In regards to using your plane, would you...
It wasn't my plane. It was the business's business had an aircraft. We didn't own our own airplane till maybe 15 or 20 years ago. And he wasn't on that plane either.
Do you recall Miss Maxwell being present when you were traveling on your company's plane?
Do you recall if Mr. Epstein would bring other guests besides Miss Maxwell while traveling on your company's plane?
There's an address at the 7500 block of King George Drive. Are you familiar with that property?
No, not familiar with that address.
Mr. Wexner, how did Mr. Epstein act towards women or girls around him in your presence?
I guess the answer would be normal and nice. He would like send my secretary or admin flowers for birthday. Courteous, I would say.
Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein have sexual contact of any kind with young women or girls?
Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein sexually abuse young women or girls?
Did you ever witness Mr. Epstein receive massages from young women or girls?
Did Mr. Epstein ever discuss sexual acts of any kind with you?
Did he ever discuss receiving massages?
What were the nature of those conversations?
He told me massage therapy was great and I should get massages.
Did he ever discuss who he was receiving massages from?
So, it is your testimony today that you don't recall him ever saying anything about receiving massages from young women or girls?
Absolutely not. Didn't do that.
Was it common for Epstein to bring young women or girls to any other place where the two of you would meet?
Did Mr. Epstein ever request that you bring Victoria's Secret models to events at your home?
No. And no Victoria Secret models ever came to my home, even for business purpose. Didn't... talk about one exception. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. There's one exception. My wife had for about 20 years a horse show here for charity and one of the models' husband was a polo player and I don't know how they showed up as a couple and he gave either me or my wife a polo horse which was I don't ride and Abigail wasn't interested in a polo horse so that would be the only exception.
Did Mr. Epstein ever request that you introduce him to Victoria Secret Models?
And I just want to clarify your testimony earlier, but did you ever receive any massages from any young woman or girl brought to you or introduced to you by Mr. Epstein?
We discussed Mr. Epstein's arrest previously, but I would like to return to it just to make sure the record is clear. In 2005, police in Palm Beach, Florida began investigating Epstein. In July 2006, Epstein was arrested for the first time for soliciting prostitution for minors. Prior to Mr. Epstein's arrest, were you aware of any investigation into Mr. Epstein?
When did you become aware of an investigation into Mr. Epstein?
Probably whenever it was in the press. I don't know when that was.
And you mentioned the press. Was there anyone that was a part of your business that may have alerted you to his arrest?
And for the record, did you have any knowledge of illegal activity by Mr. Epstein prior to his arrest in 2006?
The only I recall is my chief of staff told me, and I don't know if he knew from the press whether it was the newspapers or radio or TV, that Jeffrey had been accused or a woman was suing him for being aggressive. And I remember calling him and saying, 'What the hell is this?' And he said I was being shaken down by a hooker and I believed him. And I think the follow-up to that conversation was, 'I hope you know you're not bullshitting me because if it is, you know, the party's over.' He said, 'Absolutely not. You think I'm stupid?' Which is probably what I would say to an attorney or say to you or anybody that I worked with, if you do something off, you're out.
So, after you had that initial conversation with him, did you discuss the allegations as they were being investigated with Mr. Epstein?
No, I don't think I discussed it. It was done, you know, and I believed that he wasn't stupid.
And you mentioned your chief of staff. For the record, who is that?
His name is Bruce Saul. And I met him through an acquaintance.
The question, okay? It's going to help if you answer the question that he asks.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you. We'll all get out of here a lot faster.
Did your chief of staff have any relationship with Mr. Epstein?
Other than, you know, is that how I answer? I don't know, none except if he would call him I wouldn't know. You know, everybody knew where I was all the time so if somebody wanted to find me they would call Bruce or call my admin, 'Where's Les?' I try to be available to people but I don't tell everybody where I am and where I'm going because I'm traveling so much. So it would be, I would guess, conversations, I'm speculating that those conversations might have happened.
For the record, you were surprised by Mr. Epstein's arrest.
Do you recall people around you being surprised by his arrest?
Don't specifically recall. Probably at the time they were, but I don't remember it.
Do you recall whether anyone around you advised you that you should cut ties with Epstein after his arrest?
I'm going to instruct you not to disclose any communications you had with your wife or your lawyers in answering that question.
So, are you asserting for the record attorney privilege and spouse? To be clear, the house does not recognize common law privileges and so if you're asserting that in order for him to not testify to those in order to preserve that, we may and make that up to the chairman for a rule and then potentially may direct your client to answer those questions.
That's fine. The Supreme Court's also made clear that those privileges do exist in the congressional context and I doubt very much that whatever his answer would be to this is not important, but I'm directing him to preserve those two privileges, those two well-recognized common law privileges.
I forget the question. Did after Mr. Epstein's arrest, did anyone around you advise you to cut ties with Mr. Epstein?
And I'm going to again instruct you to answer without discussing any communications you had with your wife or your lawyers in answering that question. So, you can go ahead and answer.
Refuse to get... did anybody answer? Nobody? I can't remember anybody.
Did you instruct your companies to do an internal review of your company's relationship with Mr. Epstein at this time?
I probably would have, but I don't recall that. That would have been anything that was untoward that happened in the business or around the business. I would always say this has to be investigated and I would always, in communities and business, had the same attitude. But I don't specifically remember.
Were you suspicious of any others around Mr. Epstein that they may have aided in the solicitation of minors for prostitution when you learned of his arrest?
Do you repeat the question?
Let me clarify. Mr. Epstein had individuals such as Maxwell, Sarah Kellen, among others who have been identified as potential co-conspirators. Were there any individuals that you understood to be affiliated with Mr. Epstein that you may have suspected to have aided in his crimes?
No, because I don't recall any people around him and his business. My business is with him. I don't know my attorney's admin or who his associates are.
Mr. Wexner, we're approaching the end of our hour. So, I will just ask you one final question before we take a break. With the benefit of hindsight, were there anything you witnessed or observed about Mr. Epstein that could have suggested he was trafficking and sexually abusing women?
Absolutely not. I've asked myself that question over and over why I didn't see it. There should have been a clue or something that I should have picked up on. There's nothing I can recall. Nothing, not even a clue of a clue. And I think the reason in hindsight, and I think for the understanding to get to the bottom of what Jeffrey did, is to understand how great a con he was because that's the explanation I have to myself. How could I have never thought he was a thief? How could I never thought he was a pervert? You know, all the terrible things. Never a clue.
We will go off the record.
We can go on the record.
Good morning, Mr. Wexner. My name is... I will be doing most of the questioning for the minority today. We appreciate your time. As you know, our conversation today will focus on your relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. We'll touch on probably your financial and business relationship with him. We'll also discuss your personal relationship with him. You already discussed with our colleagues the way that you originally met Jeffrey Epstein. I would just like to ask a couple of questions on that topic. When you first met Epstein, how did he originally present himself to you? What services did he say he was offering?
Well, when I first met him, it was just alone. He didn't represent anything and I didn't ask anything. I was just meeting a friend's acquaintance.
As that business relationship became closer and you eventually hired him, I assume he pitched his services in some way. What was his way of framing what he was offering to you?
I think it was his experience at an industrial level, like working for a big company like Bear Stearns, and then he had done personal work for the Rothschild family in France.
Personal wealth management essentially?
We've seen some reports that he would present himself as a bounty hunter, that he would find people's missing money. Do you recall him saying anything like that?
One of the articles that my colleagues already introduced, I won't make you look back through it, but it was the Vanity Fair article. I will just read you a paragraph out loud. It's the only paragraph I have a question about. But that article reported that during a conversation, Jeffrey Epstein asked Mr. Meister to introduce Epstein to you, Mr. Wexner. And Epstein told Meister that Epstein had learned that Wexner's current money manager was stealing from him. And the article identifies Harold Levin, I think, as your previous financial adviser. Do you have any recollection of whether Mr. Epstein ever claimed that Mr. Levin was stealing from you?
Objection to the article on your cigar. You can answer.
As I recall, Jeffrey never thought Harold was stealing and I didn't think Harold was stealing.
Did anybody ever say that Harold was stealing?
Okay. No recollection of that.
That article also describes a story where you sent Mr. Levin to meet with Mr. Epstein and just discuss an investment opportunity, but Mr. Levin came back to you and told you to stay away from Mr. Epstein. Do you have any recollection of that type of a warning from Mr. Levin?
When you initially hired Mr. Epstein, do you recall, and some of this may be repetitive, so you have my apologies. Do you recall what year you initially hired Mr. Epstein?
Would it be right to say that it may have been either 1989 or 1990?
Do you recall anybody warning you not to get involved with Jeffrey Epstein when you first hired him?
I'd like to talk about Epstein's roles and responsibilities while he worked for you. You touched on this in the last hour. The total amount of time that he worked for you. How long was that approximately? It started maybe in 1989 or 1990 and I think you testified it ended in 200... What year did you say?
Okay. Well, what year do you recall the relationship ending? Did your statement help refresh your recollection?
Yeah, but it already said in the statement it would be the correct date and so whatever period that 89 or 90 it had been back then. And it ended when it ended.
Was that upon his final plea in 2008?
Whatever I said in the statement is accurate. I remember this being concentrated.
In terms of the different things or roles that he would play for you, is it right to say that he acted as an investment advisor or a money manager? What would be the right term for that role?
The term wasn't part of my vocabulary, but he was kind of like the family office manager. And so where they oversaw investment, oversaw people getting paid, made sure taxes were done, and talked to accountants. Just then I had, in hindsight, a very... because I had done so well and I was dating Abigail and we were engaged and I was married and running 20 businesses. I was very busy and just all that stuff that was in my personal life was either managed or wasn't managed by me. It was like my admin was like the, which sounds kind of crazy, was the closest thing I had to any kind of supervision.
Would he be making investments on your behalf the way a traditional investment advisor would?
I must have known at the time. I don't recall specifically asking him about investment.
I would like to introduce minority exhibit A. And this is an article from the Wall Street Journal titled 'Epstein flourished as he forged bond with retail billionaire.' And you don't have to read through this whole article. It's just helpful to have it in front of us. But on the bottom of page three, I will read just a single sentence to you. And that sentence, I'll read it out loud as well, says that soon Mr. Epstein was presenting Mr. Wexner with a variety of investments, including apartment buildings and a development involving a former post office building, says Mr. Maroski. And we understand that to be Robert Maroski, a former vice chairman of your company. Is that consistent with what you remember Epstein doing for you?
Objection, hearsay. You can answer.
No. Okay. Do you have any recollection of Epstein presenting you with investment opportunities such as these?
I'm sure he did, but they weren't apartment buildings or post office. Could have been.
Is it that you don't recall at all or that as far as you recall that statement is just not accurate?
Well, there's two parts of it in reading this one. Not accurate and I fired Bob Maroski for bad behavior.
But as to the substantive part, is it that you don't recall whether or not Epstein would present you with these types of investments?
I don't know. I do not recall.
Okay. And the quote is from somebody that I fired.
In addition to the family office role that you described, I'd like to ask about whether Epstein provided other services to you. We know that he provided some later clients with tax planning services. Did he ever do anything like that for you?
Must have. No specific recollection. Me, somebody, my attorney, tax attorneys, I'm kind of a model about who did what.
And so is it fair to say again that that is that you just don't recall either way?
Yeah, I don't recall at all.
Okay. Separately from that, Mr. Epstein was a trustee for various trusts and charities of yours. I'd like to touch on both of those roles starting with trusts. And so I will introduce minority exhibit B. And that article is from ABC News and it's titled, 'Billionaire businessman Leslie Wexner refuses to reveal full scope of Jeffrey Epstein's alleged multi-million dollar theft' dated January 23rd, 2020.
Ah, great. Thank you. Well, I have January 23rd. So, I'm looking at the date in the upper right. You're right. Under the byline is January 23rd. There you go.
It's got two dates. I don't know which is correct.
All right. On page three of this article, and I'll let you take a moment. In the middle of that page, the article says that they identified nearly a dozen trusts connected to you. I don't think...
Sure. It starts in the paragraph 'Bolshshire and Boyd' in the middle of the page.
I think they're associated with ABC's investigative reporting team.
Thank you. And it tells us that they found nearly a dozen trusts with names like health and science interests, arts interests, and community interests connected to Wexner that listed Epstein as trustee and received large gifts of stock in Wexner's company. So, I'll stop there. Do you have a recollection of the trusts that are described here?
None. And so, do you have any recollection of Mr. Epstein's role with those trusts?
Okay. We will come back to that, but I'd like to touch for a moment on Epstein's role with the Wexner Foundation. And for that I will introduce minority exhibit C. And this document is titled 'Independent review of Jeffrey Epstein's involvement and interactions with the Wexner Foundation.' And the document is dated February 24th, 2020. I'm not going to ask you to read through this. It's a long document. I will point you to a specific part of it. But first, we understand this to be an independent review that was undertaken by a law firm at the request of the Wexner Foundation in the wake of Mr. Epstein's arrest in 2019. Is that also your understanding?
I never knew of it. And I'm looking at this, I'm laughing because the address is 65 East State Street and that was the address of my dad's first store when I was 13.
Okay. Well, so is the report unfamiliar to you?
And I think page four of the report says that you were interviewed by the law firm for this report. Do you have any recollection of that?
Do you have any reason to doubt the report that you were in fact interviewed for the report?
No. I don't remember it, so I can't doubt it.
Page nine of the report simply tells us that Epstein was elected as a trustee of the Wexner Foundation in 1992 and that he remained a trustee until September 2007. Epstein would not have been the only trustee of the Wexner Foundation. Correct?
Objection as to hearsay as to the document. The question is fine. Can you repeat it?
Sure. Did the Wexner Foundation have more than one trustee?
I'm sure it did. And I think there was a legal requirement to have three and I don't... but I don't know that. I just think that.
Okay. On the next page, page 10, under the header number two, there's a header that reads, 'Epstein played no role in the operation of the foundation's fellowships or other programs.' And the first sentence afterward says, 'Based upon our review of foundation records and interviews with foundation leaders, we concluded that although a trustee, Epstein played no role in the management or administration of the foundation's operations or programs.' Now on that topic, I'd like to introduce one more single page exhibit for you.
So, I'm just going to object to the statement as both a statement and your sake. But go ahead.
I think as the majority general counsel noted, the objections have no legal grounding in this forum.
I'm making it for the record. It is a deposition, so I'm making the objection. That's all.
So is this single page?
Single page. And I'll give you a moment to look it over. This is D.
I'll describe it briefly. This is a chance for me to read it. Thank you.
I think I just read it. I've never seen this before, but go ahead.
Great. It's an email chain from 2006 starting with Peg Uglund who we understand was the financial controller for your family office, a person named Darren, who we understand to be Mr. Epstein's lawyer, Darren Indyke, and Jeffrey Epstein. And the chain appears to relate to a foundation grant. And the question is whether the funds should come from the Wexner Foundation or some other related entity. Epstein appears to make the decision that if the recipient is a US charity, then the funds should come from the Wexner Foundation. There are other emails with similar themes. This email chain seems to clearly show Mr. Epstein acting as a final decision maker with respect to the disbursement of Wexner Foundation funds. And that obviously does not square with findings in the independent report. So having been interviewed for the report, my question is whether you had any understanding of Mr. Epstein playing this kind of role for the foundation.
I'm not sure I understand the question.
No problem. Are you asking me did Jeffrey decide that money should be given even or do I write a personal check or is it a foundation check?
It seems in this example, Mr. Epstein was deciding whether or not the funds for this entity should or should not come from the Wexner Foundation or from someplace else, not whether the donation should be made itself. I think that's the distinction he's trying to draw.
I had no recollection of where it came from. I regularly helped Abba even after he retired from government and I probably would have started with writing a personal check and then I would speculate how it was paid. I don't remember writing the check. But Abba was a very good friend and he had no money. He worked for the government of Israel and social security was his income, was nothing. He was living in public housing and my sense was that that wasn't fair. So I took care of him privately and his wife Susie until they both died.
Did you have any knowledge that Mr. Epstein was acting as a final decision maker for whether or not to spend foundation funds?
Not at all. He would never have done that.
He does appear to have done it here as a decision maker.
No. Absolutely not. Wasn't... I wouldn't have thought, didn't know it. Wouldn't have thought it.
So this role would have occurred without your knowledge.
Objection. Seems like not evidence.
It happened without my knowledge, but I did give money to my friend Abba Eban and his wife Susie.
Okay.
I think we've had an additional member of Congress join us. If that individual could identify themselves, please.
Congressman Steve Lynch, Congressional District of Massachusetts.
Also touched on that topic. Could you just briefly describe for us your role in the development of New Albany? I know it was substantial. So, a brief overview.
It started out with me thinking I wanted to live, have a house in the country. And it began with thinking I would buy an old barn and restore it and kind of a cool thing. And as I worked through the project, my personal project, I asked my friend Jack Kessler, who was a professional in the real estate business and a developer, you know, what land cost and what he thought of the idea. And then I got to thinking, do I really want to build a barn? And then I thought I would want to build a house. And I kept telling Jack about what I was thinking I was going to do, having not done anything. And it started out pretty modestly. I think I bought like a 30-acre farm, which is about a mile from here. And then which I thought was a good location. And over time, I kept thinking about it, decided that wasn't a good location. This was a good location. And in the conversations with Jack, he kept saying that these are good ideas. You're not overpaying for land. This was something entirely new to me. And one day I said, 'Jack, if it's such a good idea, why don't you want to live here?' And he said, 'I would, but my wife wouldn't move.' And then one day he called up. He said, 'She thinks it's a good idea and we're going to sell our house and we'll build one near yours,' which is the house that's half a mile away. And I said, 'If we're going to live here, do you think any of our friends might want to live out near us or acquaintances of his?' And he said, 'Yeah, I think a lot of people would like that. You know, the idea of having more land around and it's not that far from the airport, stuff like that.' And that's how the idea began. And then the next idea was how do you do it? And Jack as a professional, the only professional I knew in the real estate business other than shopping center developers, relied on his judgment about prices we were paying and acquisitions because I had a full-time job and I didn't know anything about this. And then I got to thinking one day, how do you do it? I mean, not acquire the land. How do you plan it? And I thought, there's a lot of smart people at Harvard. So, I made a cold call to the school of architecture. Talked to the dean. I said, I have this idea. You don't know me. Could you recommend some architects? And he said, I don't recommend architects to strangers and projects I don't know about. And we talked a while more and he said, 'If you'll buy a day of my time, if you're really serious, I'll come out and look at it because I don't know whether you're really serious about doing this.' And then he gave me a list of architects and I didn't know any of them.
No, I think I've got the sense of it.
And it kind of just grew by topsy.
I appreciate it. You also touched on this earlier, but what was the role of the New Albany Company in the development of the town of New Albany?
Well, it was just the name of the community, so we called it the company because we were developing New Albany. If we had developed it in Poughkeepsie, it'd be called Poughkeepsie Company.
What was, as far as you recall, Mr. Epstein's role in the development of New Albany?
What was his role with the New Albany Company?
As a fiduciary, read my financial advisor to understand what was going on financially. You know, I thought I knew what was going on in our businesses, but we always had a CFO. So I'd rely on the CFO to do what the CFO do because I did the marketing and the planning. But I... every business had a CFO, every business had over a year, and I had a lot of complexity that I didn't realize at the time in my life. So it was either, you know, somebody had to do this.
And there's paper. I don't want to throw paper at you if I don't have to. But I'll represent to you that yourself and Mr. Epstein were at least at one point co-presidents of the New Albany Company. I'm happy to show that if that would be helpful, but I guess my question would be what would his role have been as co-president of the New Albany Company?
I think it... I don't remember it, but if he did it, it was just... I don't know. I was the president, chairman of the board, and then the CEO of the company. But I really just thought my job was to be the president. So that the titles wouldn't have meant anything to me.
It is right, I think you tell me that the purpose of the New Albany Company was to assist in the development of New Albany. Is that right?
It was more than that. New Albany was just a farm village and I bought land here and developed it. Built the schools, built the fire station, built the police station, did all the community, public facilities, you know, platted streets. I can remember did all the drawings. So, I was the master developer of New Albany as a community.
Did the New Albany Company have any purpose other than to assist in the development of New Albany?
Mr. Epstein was at one point president of the New Albany Company.
Objection. I think you said he was co-president.
That's correct. Co-president.
But just so I understand it, your testimony is that Mr. Epstein played no role in the development of New Albany.
Like to talk about the Limited Company. Was Mr. Epstein ever employed by the Limited Company or any of its affiliated entities?
Did Mr. Epstein ever have an informal role with the Limited Company or any of its affiliated entities?
Did he ever provide any services or advice to the company regardless of compensation?
The Vanity Fair article we looked at earlier. I'll just relay the anecdote. You're welcome to look at it if you want to, but it retells a story that in 1996, the Limited was preparing to spin off Abercrombie and Fitch on the New York Stock Exchange and Epstein reportedly flew to Columbus and told your executives that he would decide the share price. Do you have any recollection of that occurring?
And the article says that Tom Hopkins, who I think was the vice chair of the Limited at the time, told you at that point that Epstein was a con man. Do you have any recollection of that occurring?
Okay. I'll note there's been a lot of reporting that Mr. Epstein held himself out as affiliated with Victoria's Secret. We will come back to that topic a little bit later. Were there any instances at all that you can recall in which Epstein got involved in the Limited's business affairs?
In terms of Mr. Epstein's compensation, how was he compensated for his work for you?
I don't specifically recall, but I would guess fairly.
I should be more clear. Was he compensated with salary or would it have been investment based or securities or fee-based? Do you recall what was the way in which you would compensate him?
We discussed earlier I think that the breadth of his theft from you I think has been estimated by your counsel to be the hundreds of millions. Do you recall approximately what Mr. Epstein's total compensation would have been in his time with you?
I'm sure I would have known them, but I don't recall.
I'd like to talk about Mr. Epstein's misappropriation or theft of your assets. And so I will introduce as exhibit E. So, this is an excerpt from a memo that the Department of Justice wrote in December of 2019 and DOJ was assessing the extent to which people around Epstein might have been liable for their conduct. Okay. The memo is long. I will represent I have given you only the excerpt that relates to you. There's nothing else in this document that relates to you directly. The section that I've given you on pages on the second and third pages of the document. It's 65 and 66 at the bottom. This is a summary of a proffer that your lawyer or lawyers gave to DOJ in July of 2019 with respect to Epstein's theft from you. In the second half of the second paragraph, I'll read it out loud. Your attorneys explained that over his years handling Wexner's finances, Epstein stole or otherwise misappropriated several hundred million dollars from Wexner. That misconduct together with the fees that Epstein paid himself for his services to Wexner appears to account for virtually all of Epstein's wealth. So, several hundred million dollars is a large but not precise figure. To the best of your knowledge, how much exactly did Epstein steal?
I don't know. I don't think I'll ever know.
I'd like to try to understand a little bit better how Epstein was able to steal or misappropriate that many funds. One way reportedly is that the trusts that we described earlier, which I know you said you have no recollection of. I just want to be thorough. The trusts that he was trustee of would receive gifts of Limited stock and he would then sell that stock on the New York Stock Exchange and then use a portion of those proceeds for his own personal purposes. Do you have any knowledge or recollection of what I just described?
I'm effing surprised. I'm in shock. I didn't know this.
Is it that you have not previously heard what I just described?
I never heard of it. Never saw this document.
And it was publicly reported, I think, by ABC several years ago, but not ever on your radar.
The report indicates that it was more than or around $1.3 billion of stock that Epstein moved around that way. Not that he kept all of that money for himself, but the total amount of stock sales was over a billion dollars. You have no knowledge or awareness of that.
I don't know the amounts. The only trust that I'm aware of is my wife set up trusts for our kids, you know. So, wherever she set them up in the amounts, I have no idea what's in them then or now.
And then separately, it's been reported that around $20 million of stock and cash were contributed by two of your charitable foundations to one of Epstein's charities. Do you have any knowledge or awareness of that?
Effing shocked. I just, I'm appalled. I never heard that.
We have some additional questions with some questions from some of the members here. I'll start. I want to just go back to something. Now earlier in the deposition, you said that you were never aware of Jeffrey Epstein or Maxwell sexually abusing minors or adult women. Is that correct?
I know Jeffrey was accused by an adult woman of abusing her and that's the only thing that I knew until the hit the fan.
So prior to becoming public knowledge you were never aware Jeffrey...
Correctly. Absolutely not.
Were you ever...
Wait till he finishes asking the question.
Sorry, the court reporters will get mad at you if you don't.
Okay. So I think you said that you think or not. Were you ever aware of Jeffrey Epstein or Maxwell sexually abusing men or boys?
How about trafficking men or boys?
Prior to it becoming public knowledge, were you ever aware of Jeffrey Epstein or Maxwell arranging for a prominent person to have sex with another person?
Can I ask you, Mr. Wexner, were you ever with Jeffrey Epstein in the presence of women or men in bathing suits or underwear?
Never in the presence of women or men in bathing suits or underwear with Mr. Epstein?
No. If he was at the fashion show, he certainly saw women in underwear, but you know...
So you're saying that if he was at a fashion show with you through the fashion business it may have been the case but maybe, but could it have been the case that you were with Mr. Epstein maybe prior to the fashion show or in another space?
So did any women or men ever model clothes for you in the presence of Mr. Epstein?
So, not at a fashion show and not in a private home or residence?
Being in the audience of the fashion show would have been the only possible time.
Are you aware of any individual that has given either a public statement or any information of anyone that has actually said that they believe you were with Mr. Epstein in the presence of women or men modeling clothes or underwear?
I think the answer is no, but I'm not sure I understand the question.
I'll move on. Did, just a direct question for you, sir. So, did you yourself ever have a sexual encounter with any individual that was introduced to you by Jeffrey Epstein or Maxwell?
Did you personally have a sexual relationship with Jeffrey Epstein?
Are you aware that others have claimed that you had a sexual relationship with Jeffrey Epstein?
Did you ever suspect, sir, if Jeffrey Epstein ever had any sexual relationships with other men?
But you, since it being public knowledge, you are now aware that Jeffrey had inappropriate relationships with other women. Is that correct?
Yes. What I know from the press, the service. Yes.
Thank you. I'd like to ask you about Epstein's properties and your visits to them. Of course, Epstein's New York and New Albany houses were originally we discussed earlier and you also had a house in Palm Beach. That's correct?
Objection. I think you testified that the one in New Albany was Mr. Kessler's.
I'm just trying to clarify.
No, thank you. And the house in Palm Beach, is there a house that you had in Palm Beach?
I did have a house in Palm Beach.
Okay. Did you ever visit Palm Beach?
Can you tell us about that visit?
He bought a house in Palm Beach and he wanted me to see it. I think he wanted me and Abigail to see it. And we flew down on like a Sunday morning with friends of ours from Columbus. Walked, looked at the house, you know, congratulations. Got back on the plane and came home. So, and it was a pretty modest house.
Nothing special. One trip. In that trip, did you ever witness Donald Trump at the house?
Do you recall any other prominent figures at the Palm Beach house?
No, just Jeffrey and my friends.
Who were the other friends?
Judy and Steve Tuckerman. Dr. Steven Tuckerman and his wife Judith.
I'm sure they'll be delighted about that. No, they won't be. Did you ever visit the island in West Island?
Can you tell us about those visits?
Yes. Jeffrey invited us to see it and we were on a boat and we went to the island with our kids. So Abigail, myself, I can't remember how many kids we had. Two or three or four, at least two. Walked around for a while and left. Probably an hour visit.
Okay. An hour. So on that trip, do you recall seeing any prominent figures on the island?
No. It was a pretty crummy island.
Okay. Did you ever visit his ranch in New Mexico or his house in Paris?
You want to break those up for clarity?
Did you ever visit his ranch in New Mexico?
It was the same kind of thing. He wanted Abigail and I to see his ranch. We flew down there and drove around for an hour or two, got back on the plane and came home. And I don't think he had a house.
You would fly just to go visit for one hour?
Yeah. I would fly to Europe for one hour on business trips. As crazy as it is, getting to planning one place for me was like going to the mailbox. And he didn't have a house on the ranch and I never knew he had a house in Paris.
And in the ranch in New Mexico that you spent an hour at, were there any prominent figures or anyone that you recall else being there?
No, as I recall, it was just Abigail, myself, and I think he'd rented a trailer. So, it wasn't a house and that's all I know.
Okay. And so to clarify, you didn't know he had a house in Paris. You did not ever go to Paris?
I didn't know he had a house in Paris and therefore I didn't go to the house in Paris.
Okay. During any of your visits to any of these properties, did you ever see any girls or women that looked unusually young?
Did you ever hear rumors of any girls or women who looked young?
During any visit to Epstein's property, did you ever see photographs or other images of women or minors?
Did you ever become aware of Epstein transporting women or minors using assets that you owned, whether that's a plane that you owned or a yacht that you owned?
And did you ever hear of any rumors related to Epstein's personal life or his sexual activities? Rumors that you may have heard in the grave.
It's kind of ambiguous. I mean, I'll answer you in just... I think you're asking an ambiguous question. I would go to visit David Gergen at Harvard because I was very interested in the center of public leadership and David would say, 'Jeffrey was up here. Your friend Jeffrey was up here and he was visiting Henry Rosovsky who was the dean of Harvard College and he was visiting Larry Summers and he always has an admin with him or a girl and he says he never... a woman could be more happy. He never travels by himself.' And I think that's what I've referred to. I mean, I don't think I'd get through a day without hearing a rumor about somebody. So, I'm not close to you, probably heard.
No, but it wasn't... it was more like he was traveling with his admin or his secretary or his lady lawyer or his lady accountant. That's what I would hear.
But it wasn't... I never heard rumors about Jeffrey, you know, Jeffrey was traveling around with a girlfriend or this or a girl. It was like it was part of his... I don't know, social visits or something. It was always, if I heard it, it was in reference to work, his work.
Yes. Thank you. I actually want to... Dr. Mark Landon. Are you familiar with him?
Yes. He was paid by Epstein on your behalf to consult on biomed. Is that correct?
I just heard about that. I didn't know that till maybe the last few days.
Okay. So, with you knowing Dr. Mark Landon, are you aware as to whether or not Dr. Landon ever was paid to render medical services to any of the alleged victims of Jeffrey?
What is your relationship with Dr. Landon?
Abigail had a complicated pregnancy and their general obstetrician I believe referred her to Mark and he is an obstetrician and that's how I met him and he delivered our children.
Okay. And so our relationship, my relationship with him is my wife's doctor.
Did you ever introduce him to Jeffrey Epstein?
No.
All right. Did you ever spend time with Epstein and Donald Trump?
I want to answer this question accurately. I would go to some of the Victoria's Secret fashion shows. It was very important to the brand. At some of the fashion shows, Jeffrey was there and some Trump was there. And I remember because Trump would always introduce himself to me. And I always thought it was kind of odd that he was at the fashion show because he had nothing to do with fashion. So the coincidence of them being together at an event, it could have been that, but I have no specific recollection. They never had a social or like a drink or a cup of coffee, something that would put them together.
Okay. So just to clarify, because I want to make sure we're clear on the record, you're saying that you can recall instances potentially where Epstein and Trump were together and you were in their presence or just a random scenario where Epstein may be there, Trump may be there. So, and then you...
It would be at random. That would be accurate if it happened, but I have no specific recollection.
Okay. Did you ever see or become aware of President Trump having a sexual relationship with a person who was introduced to him by Epstein or Maxwell?
Has Donald Trump ever discussed Jeffrey Epstein with you?
I would describe it. He would name drop. So he would say things like I know President Clinton or I know the Pope or...
I know God or I know you. It was that kind of name dropping but never... I can't remember specific place but Jeffrey dropped a lot of names.
Okay. Just to clarify, you believe he specifically dropped Donald Trump's name?
No, I'm saying it could have, but I don't remember.
Okay. Did Epstein ever share any information with you about Donald Trump's sexual activities? Do you have a relationship with Donald Trump?
But you've met him before.
He introduced himself to me at the fashion show a couple of times, but I wouldn't say hello, how are you? Like you say, met like we knew each other. We don't know each other. I'd be shocked if he remembered me.
Okay. And I know that you specifically mentioned the island that you have been to, Jeffrey's Island. Do you recall seeing any of those persons that Jeffrey Epstein name-dropped while we were on his island?
No, nobody was there, but Abigail, myself, Jeffrey, maybe somebody cutting grass or something. There was a maintenance person, I think. I don't specifically recall. I know for sure I was there, Abigail was there, Jeffrey was there. And there wasn't anything abnormal about the appearance of the home on the island.
And the reason that I asked, just to give you clarification on what I mean by abnormal, we've heard reports of people being thrown off when they walked into his home in New York because there was a massage table that was just sitting randomly in the middle of a room. Did you see anything like that when you visited any property that belonged to Jeffrey Epstein?
Well, just to clarify, when we visited the island, there was like a prefab building, maybe a one-room and a bathroom or something. It was pretty crummy. And the island was crummy. There were no trees, there was no sand, there was no beach. It was just a peculiar thing. It was an island, but it was like a pile of rocks. I was kind of shocked that anybody would buy it for any purpose. As far as seeing things, I never was in the house. I was never at his house in New York, the house in Florida. We were there after we bought it, as I mentioned, with the couple. So, never saw a massage table or anything.
Thank you so much. Thank you for your ability to answer a lot of questions. I think when you meet the survivors, it becomes incredibly personal, especially for women living on this committee. So, appreciate it. But I'd like to introduce exhibit. The article is titled 'Jeffrey Epstein's Science.' Records show... passing it out. But in the article, it explains that recent Department of Justice files indicate that in early 2000, Epstein was making payments to Dr. Michael Landon, who's the OB/GYN and the chair of the OB/GYN department at Ohio State University. And you said that your wife received services from Dr. Landon. So you know him?
Dr. Landon said the payments were for consulting services he provided for New York Strategy Group, which was some kind of firm associated. Do you know why he is getting paid for payment by... do you know if there are services being offered to victims, women?
Because you're very associated with Ohio State University, right?
Were you aware that Jeffrey Epstein was paying him quarterly payments?
Okay. So, the article suggests that Epstein would bill you and your wife for at least one of these payments in 2015. Quote, 'as we have in prior years, that's evidenced within the Department of Justice.' Mr. Wexner, are you aware of these $25,000 payments coming from your accounts in 2005 and earlier?
You know, Mr. Wexner, I'm watching this all unfolding. I just want you to know it's incredibly hard for people to understand. You don't know this. Maybe you don't know the specific details. Maybe you don't know what the dollar means, but Epstein was able to be empowered and able to hurt more people with your money. You understand that?
I know. But you don't know the purpose of the payment and the money's coming from you. It's your money and you don't know why he's paying a doctor at Ohio State University.
Did you introduce him to Dr. Landon?
How did he meet Dr. Landon?
I wouldn't know that he met him.
Because your wife received services from Dr. Michael Landon.
Yes. And so did my daughter.
So was it a routine practice for the New York Strategy Group's expenses to be paid by your accounts? It's weird because it's your money going in to pay for the consulting services of another company.
So Dr. Landon never talked to you about these payments? Something else that comes up because one of the claims that you're saying that you're not close friends and everything, some of us have access to the redacted emails. There is constant claims from survivors. Again, they're redacted from some of the communication directly with Maxwell or directly with other women that were helping that scene. And your name comes up synonymously sometimes with that. Did you know that?
Well, they also said that you were lovers and I know it's nothing to be ashamed of. I just want you to know. It should... no, no, it's nothing to be ashamed of, but it would explain, I think, the closeness that everyone consistently says. No one ever says you're not close. Everyone says that you had a close relationship, that you and Epstein were close friends? Did you know that?
Objection. Your side.
Okay. I think, Mr. Wexner, could you provide us with the name of every registered legal entity? And this is important because if you don't know, then give us information. Help us find the people that hurt the girls with your money. I'm asking, encouraging you to please. You started your business with your aunt's money. You don't want your legacy to be not just Epstein but Dr. Richard Strauss, who also... well, it doesn't matter. You were chair of Ohio State University, the board chair at the time that he assaulted other women athletes on campus. This is to say to you, it's not only one person that hurts women, but now two that are affiliated with you directly. And I just want to urge you that if you don't know the answers to this, follow up with our committee. Give us the information so we can find out who hurt the women and who benefited from it. So could you provide us with the name of every registered legal entity of which you were the beneficial owner between the start of your relationship with Mr. Epstein and his death? Can you provide that to the committee, sir?
I would provide you with everything and anything I could to nail it. Where they were registered and the date of registration and the names of whoever acted as the agent of those entities.
Yeah. Can I request that you just put that request in writing and direct it to me and we will take it and respond. It's important because, Mr. Wexner, so you know, the women, the survivors told us to follow the money consistently. The other question, and this will be my last. You claimed that you have been a victim and defrauded by Epstein. Correct. Then why didn't you file charges, go after him? He used money to hurt girls and probably young men. Why didn't you do anything to recoup your name which has been synonymous with Epstein? Do you know your name comes up in the emails among victims who never met you, but your name was used consistently?
I'm not sure I understand what the question is.
Why didn't you file any charges against Epstein if he stole $200 million that we know of? Why didn't you go after him?
Well, at the time I didn't know.
And when you found out, why didn't you go after him? Is it because he was a good friend?
No. My dad is probably laughing. You know, one of the things my dad told me is that you don't get in a pissing contest with an elephant. And running a public company for a long time, I'm not good at public relations or financial public relations. And so I would answer questions to analysts. I'd call people up and I'd tell them the truth. And what I learned in the course of my business career is whether it was my chief of staff, a company lawyer, personal lawyers, what should I do? And the advice is let us handle it. Don't you don't want to get ahead of this. So I'm happy that today is happening because I want to help and I would do everything I can to nail that son of a...
Please let him just finish.
And I can't tell you how much I value my own ethics, my own moral compass that it has a true north. And what I think happened now knowing about all the cons is that Jeffrey would tell somebody that they were me or this was somebody else. Like I don't... you and I've never met. I don't recognize you, but you're a congresswoman, I think, because...
Yeah, I never met you, but you're all over the email.
Yeah, but so I presume you're a congresswoman, and I presume you're not a man in women's clothing. I don't know what I didn't know. And this is, you know, now it...
So, Wexner, you claim that you cut ties with him in '07. Okay. She emailed. Quote, 'Abigail told me the response. All I can say is I feel sorry. You violated your own number one rule. Always be careful.' End quote. That was an email in 2008, Mr. Wexner.
I know. I'm letting you know that the public knows. Probably. I was giving him the finger.
That's... real briefly. Did the FBI or Department of Justice ever directly speak to you about Epstein or Maxwell? Has the FBI or DOJ ever directly contacted you or spoken to you about...
And then finally, would you consider Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein friends or friendly? Would you classify them that way in the information that you have?
I think it's really two questions. Would I think they were friends? No. Jeffrey Epstein held him out as a friend.
Thank you. We can go off the record.
We'll go back on the record.
What's that?
That is a microphone. Mr. Wexner, it is 1:17 in the afternoon. Our minority colleagues touched on a lot of different subject areas and I just want to go back through and parse out some things. First though, I want to enter as exhibit five the letter from Les Wexner... This document is titled 'Letter from Les Wexner' directed to the Wexner Foundation community. I will stipulate to you there's no date on here. The date it was posted on the website was August 8th, 2019. Do you guys have any reason to dispute that? In this letter that you wrote in August of 2019, you mentioned that Mr. Epstein had various well-known, respected individuals as financial clients and in his inner circle. My question to you is could you elaborate a little bit to who some of those financial clients were that you were aware of?
Well, just to clarify, it says Epstein represented that he had them. He wouldn't know if he did or not.
Were you aware of any of Mr. Epstein's other clients?
Well, specifically I talked to the Rothschilds since I mentioned that earlier. So he represented their whole family. So there have been a whole bunch of people, most of whom I never would have met in New York or LA. I never met people, but there were people that called me that either insinuated or said they knew Jeffrey through a financial relationship. And so, I mean, they could have been actors, but at the time a guy calls me up, I'll give you an example. Just... it's just...
No, no, because I want you to understand this because it's so confusing to me.
He would say like, 'I'm providing financial advice to the founders of Google. I'm providing financial advice to Jeff Bezos. I'm providing financial advice for the chief technologist at Google.' Wow, I'm in good company because these are really smart guys with a lot of money. And you have to put yourself in the mindset of... if my attorney said he was qualified to argue in front of the Supreme Court, I'd believe him. I didn't call the Supreme Court and say, 'Tell me, is he really an attorney or did he do this?' And I get a phone call from someone like a guy named Marv, who was the chief technology officer of Google, who said, 'You know, Jeffrey has been helping me, financial advisor. I told Jeffrey I was building a boat, he told me to call you.' I had never built a boat, but if I wanted to build a boat, I would go to Feadship because reputationally they're the best boat builders. Then, you know, it was... and that's the part that is so embarrassing is what a con he was. And if you... I don't know if you believe your priest or your minister or your rabbi is what they are, you believe them. And people would... it was mostly phone calls that people would say or if you'd bump into someone, 'Jeffrey's my advisor, Jeff talked to me about stuff' or 'Jeffrey's helped me with financial things.' I can't remember specifically, but as I look back at it, it was part of the con. So I never met my...
One second because I think you'll move this thing along a little faster. Okay, just to answer the question. Mr. Wexner, you mentioned some of these phone calls from other individuals, you know, boasting about their ties with Mr. Epstein. Do you have a recollection of when most of these would have occurred, these phone calls?
Pretty regular, but I specifically can't remember any of them.
So, in majority exhibit three, your statement from this morning, your written statement from this morning, you mentioned on the second page, I believe it is, second paragraph, approximately middle of the paragraph, that you consulted Ace Greenberg and Jimmy Cayne of Bear Stearns, Epstein's former employer. Did I read that correctly?
What did you reach out to Mr. Greenberg and Mr. Cayne about at Bear Stearns with regard to Mr. Epstein?
And as far as checking those references, did anything come up surprising to you about Mr. Epstein's background?
And you also mentioned... let me take a step back. Bear Stearns has mentioned and previously reported that Mr. Epstein didn't have a degree or some of the proper qualifications for his job there. Did you have any reason to doubt the qualifications of Mr. Epstein when it related to being your financial adviser?
I don't recall ever questioning that he had a degree. I don't remember asking the question.
And so going off of that, other than making some phone calls to some individuals, did you ever formally check into Mr. Epstein's past?
Not beyond talking to the people I mentioned.
Understood. You also state... sorry to jump back and forth, the letter from Les Wexner, exhibit five, that same paragraph, the third one in the middle there. The last sentence after the comma says, 'I believed I could trust him.' What about him being Mr. Epstein did he do that you thought you could trust him?
Well, I put him in a position of trust. He was a fiduciary that was to act in my interest and I trusted that he could do that.
And your trust in him came before he actually handled any of your finances. Is that correct?
Correct. Initially he was like a friend of a friend who I perceived of as being skilled to review Errol's work.
Understood. Moving along a little bit. You may have touched on this with our minority colleagues. What was the rough portfolio that Mr. Epstein was handling for you?
Probably all my personal finance, houses, equipment, cars, just inventorying of stuff. All the financial things that someone would handle outside of their business. I have someone do because it was so much stuff.
And your previous financial adviser before Mr. Epstein, did that individual have power of attorney?
I don't specifically remember it, but I think he did.
And Mr. Epstein did have power of attorney over your financial matters?
And why did this become your practice to give them power of attorney?
I was so busy traveling so much. The papers had to be signed, tax returns filed, people had to act on my behalf. So many things to sign. I needed to have somebody to do that.
Understood. How involved were you with Mr. Epstein's determinations over your finances? Did you have any involvement?
More of like a... did you have any oversight of what Mr. Epstein was doing as your financial adviser?
Well, I'm sure he did at the time. Yeah.
And did he bring every decision to you, some decisions to you? What did that look like?
I don't know. I was running a 20-division business and community responsibilities. So if you ask me what the president of the university brought, tell me you're the head of the foundation, I can't remember. But I was involved in everything except just a lot of stuff.
So, is it a fair characterization of your testimony that Mr. Epstein had pretty wide latitude over your financial affairs?
And Mr. Epstein had access to your personal bank accounts. Is that correct?
Do you recall if he had access to any of your business bank accounts?
Did Mr. Epstein ever ask you to lend him money for any reason?
Did Mr. Epstein ever make any attempt to blackmail you for any reason?
Did Mr. Epstein's control over your personal finances extend to any decisions that affected the rest of your family members?
Mostly that's just like... I want to say no, but I know that he was involved with the Children's Trust because I learned that today or what he did that I didn't know that would have been personal. I don't know what I don't know. But to my knowledge, he would have in a civilian way been involved.
And just to clarify your testimony earlier about setting up trust for your children, was it Mr. Epstein who helped set up the trust for your children?
Did Mr. Epstein handle any other financial decisions in regard to your children?
And sorry, gonna switch gears a little bit here about your foundation. Why ultimately did Mr. Epstein become a trustee of your foundation?
Just convenience for signing documents, financial oversight. Not for the foundation, not anything that would be the operation of a foundation, its purpose or review of people. It was just part of the complexity of my personal life.
And forgive my ignorance, you have usually board members of foundations and separately trustee members. Is that an accurate statement?
I wish I could tell you. I think we just had trustees.
Okay. And just to clarify, Mr. Epstein, did he receive any compensation for his role on the board of the Wexner Foundation?
Do you recall who Mr. Epstein replaced on the board or how that board seat became available to him?
Did your mother used to be a member of the foundation board?
And was she forced to step down from the board?
No, she left her board position willingly.
Yes. Can you describe in a little bit more detail the circumstances for why your mother left the board of the Wexner Foundation?
I don't recall. Probably age.
Mr. Wexner, what sort of materials did you use to prepare for today's deposition?
I'm going to object to anything that counsel showed him. That's my work product. Anything he reviewed on his own, he's welcome to testify about. A few documents and smart advice like just answer questions. Don't discuss what your attorney... for.
Okay. Say it again. I want to be honest.
Excuse me. What documents or other materials did you use in preparation for today's deposition? Other than anything that your lawyer showed you?
Are you aware of any litigation from your mother and the Wexner Foundation about her stepping down from the board?
Was there ever any pressure from Mr. Epstein to keep his position on the foundation's board?
When you were in the, I'll call it the prime of your career as a CEO over your companies and corporation, would you say that you were heavily involved in the operations of the company and its related entities?
Heavily isn't a big enough word.
Could it be described that you like to micromanage what was going on through your companies and your corporation?
No, that was how I would describe my involvement. I don't think people that I worked with ever described me as a micromanager, but I was involved in so many things in the business. I love the business.
And did you ever face any criticism from your corporation or its related entities about allowing Mr. Epstein to handle finances in any way?
We never handled business finances and no one in the business was critical of Jeffrey handling, you know, his responsibilities to me personally.
No one ever brought any concerns to you at all?
I want to circle back again to some testimony you provided earlier. You testified that Mr. Epstein stole large amounts of money from you. Is that correct?
Yes, I did. That's a statement.
And I can't recall, did you know some partial amount of how much he stole?
Well, I didn't know he was stealing till after we discovered that he was a crook. And my wife and attorneys told me about it.
They told you what you understood?
What I understood. I only understood what they told me. I didn't discover it or count it or whatever one would... that's the essence of your question.
