About N. Murthy
N. Murthy, co-founder of Infosys, participated in the launch of the book "The Inspired Leader" in July 2025, where he discussed the practice of self-introspection. He stated that he has conducted an annual review of his mistakes for 20 years, describing it as the "most single most powerful factor" for personal development, though he noted it took him three to four years to write honestly. In May and June 2026, Murthy spoke at the Bharat Innovates 2026 event in Nice, France, where he praised India's startup ecosystem, attributing its growth to Prime Minister Modi's Startup India initiative. He contrasted the challenges of entrepreneurship in the 1980s—such as lack of venture capital, poor communication, and travel restrictions—with the current environment, which he described as "even more difficult" due to the need to compete globally with world-class innovations. He advised young entrepreneurs to articulate their product's business value in a simple sentence and to lead by example in sacrifice, hard work, and values.
Transcript (66 segments)
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Host0:00
Don't do tuk tuk. Introduce yourself, the faculty that you represent and ask your question that is short and crisp. And after the talk, may we please invite you to join us for lunch which has been so graciously hosted by the University of Delhi, our co-host for the day.
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Narrator0:31
What is the School of Ultimate Leadership? The School of Ultimate Leadership is India's first of its kind institution. It is dedicated to shaping authentic, relentless and conscious leaders in the public domain. Through our portfolio of leadership programs, SOUL empowers individuals across the public sphere to lead with integrity, altruism and a vision for a Viksit Bharat. Our vision is to enable authentic leaders to advance public good. We were launched nearly one year ago on 21st February 2025 by the honorable prime minister at our first leadership conclave that brought together eminent leaders to exchange ideas and inspire future leaders such as yourself. Today we would like to share some glimpses from the SOUL leadership conclave. Exactly a year ago.
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N. Murthy2:31
Leading from the front, leading from the back. You always have to lead from different things because that can-do attitude is so important.
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Narrator3:40
IIM management school of the west or Harvard of the East. If you make that little bit of difference in the way you do your work, you begin to get noticed.
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Audience Member4:00
Two days journey of SOUL conclave was incredible.
The experience has been tremendous.
This leadership conclave has taught us so many mantras, so many good speakers, so many people have come across here.
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Narrator4:51
At SOUL, I have often been asked, can leaders be made? It is a question young people always ask. Can leadership be taught? At SOUL we believe that leadership is a lifelong journey that can be learned and largely it is through self-mastery. It can't be taught but it can be learned. Let us have another look at how the prime minister put it.
As the honorable prime minister said, SOUL is not merely a name but truly the soul of India's public life. Its establishment marks an important milestone in our nation's journey towards our Viksit future. SOUL is a facilitator, a mentor and a guide in public life. In the last one year since our launch, SOUL has facilitated over 10 cohorts of public officers, brought to our young leaders five leaders talks, including this one, signed three memorandums of understandings and progressed our campus development at Gandhi Nagar rapidly. Each program design and each learning space at the School of Ultimate Leadership is curated to enable authenticity and relentlessness in public life while deeply internalizing the values of integrity, altruism, and excellence. Before we begin the proceedings, we would like to screen a short two-minute clip that introduces the School of Ultimate Leadership.
In the happiness of the subjects lies the happiness of the leader. In their welfare, his welfare. This is the Indian wisdom of ages. A guiding light for leaders who choose the path of Seva. Leadership begins not with a crown but with a question. How can I serve? It is a journey of action, humility and purpose. Leadership is not about dominion but about duty. It is not about authority but about service. This is the foundation of the School of Ultimate Leadership. Driven by our prime minister's vision of Viksit Bharat 2047, SOUL will help forge a new generation of authentic leaders shaping India's journey into a developed nation. Set within India's innovation corridor in Gandhi Nagar, SOUL is where tradition meets the future. Inspired by the timeless circle of Indic knowledge, this campus is designed as an ecosystem where architecture itself becomes an enabler of dialogue, discourse and deep thought. At its core is a central assembly hub, a forum for policy, ethics and governance. Around it, the academic and administrative wings forming the foundation of leadership education. Here the leaders of tomorrow will draw from India's timeless teachings, excellence, integrity and altruism. These teachings will shape them for the greater good of the country. In this campus, the heart of leadership lies in listening, collaborating and reflecting. Every detail of SOUL is intentional. Green roofs, shaded courtyards, and intelligent design create an environment that nurtures both intellect and well-being. At SOUL mentorship is not confined to lectures. It is in the corridors in shared meals in the very spaces designed to cultivate dialogue and exchange ideas. SOUL is not just an institution. It is India's commitment to shaping leaders for a future that demands wisdom, resilience and vision.
We would request all our young leaders to follow us on social media to enable deep engagement on topics of governance and leadership in public life. Even on personal account, we are happy to connect with you personally over LinkedIn or any other professional medium. We are always happy to connect and hear from you. The leader talk series is an initiative where we bring to our young leaders eminent personnel to share their journeys, achievements, challenges and values. There is nothing quite like learning from listening to experiences firsthand. In the past, we have been privileged to host luminaries such as Mr. Ganesh Mantra, Mr. Ajay Piramal, Mr. Uday Kotak, Dr. R. Balasubramanyam and Professor Mahadevan. Today, as you know, we are privileged to host Shri Narayan Murthy, someone you already know and admire. But here's the exciting part. The inspiration continues beyond the stage today. We are joined today by other distinguished members you may get a chance to meet over lunch. Please allow me a couple of minutes to introduce these remarkable leaders to you. Dr. Hasmukh Adhia is a former union finance and revenue secretary. He's a key architect of some of the country's most important economic reforms. You may wish to Google him. Currently, he wears several hats. He is the principal adviser to the Chief Minister of Gujarat, chairman of the Gujarat Administrative Reform Commission, the non-executive chairman of the Gujarat Alkalies and Chemicals Limited, the Gujarat Mineral Development Corporation and others. But most importantly, he's a mentor to many and an inspiration to millions. Academically he's associated with a number of educational institutions including being the chancellor of the Central Gujarat University and the Indian Institute of Management Bangalore as a member of board of governors. You may wish to interact with him to know that governance can be guided by values. Our conversation today will be guided by a voice that asks bold questions and seeks honest answers. From the ruffle there, I know you know him. Mr. Sudhir Chaudhary has spent decades shaping national discourse through fearless journalism and deep public engagements. He's one of India's most influential journalists known to connect complex issues with the curiosity of the youth and the conscience of the nation. He would be our anchor this morning. We all know him, don't we? But to complete the formality, Mr. Murthy is the founder of Infosys and the man who helped India, who helped put India on the global technology map. He built a world-class company on the pillars of transparency, trust, and long-term vision. From a small startup with borrowed money to a global technology giant, his relentless journey defines the power of vision, integrity and his core values. Mr. Murthy is not just a founder of Infosys. He's a role model for ethical entrepreneurship in India. His journey teaches us that success and values can indeed grow together. Today we all stand much to benefit by listening to his experiences firsthand.
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Host15:26
May I request all of you in the audience to please maintain silence and decorum as we await the arrival of the dignitaries to the convention hall. Thank you.
A quick reminder, phones to silent. Quiet, please.
Please be seated.
Good morning everyone. On behalf of the School of Ultimate Leadership, it is our privilege to welcome Mr. Murthy and our anchor, Mr. Sudhir Chaudhary. I was going to request you for a huge round of applause, but I think that's been done. May we have another round of applause. Also, a very warm welcome to our distinguished guests, partners, colleagues, and friends. This event is co-hosted by the University of Delhi and we extend our heartful gratitude to them for helping us curate this very special experience. May I please request Dr. Hasmukh Adhia, the former union and finance and revenue secretary, a key architect of some of the most important economic reforms in our nation, currently the principal adviser to the chief minister of Gujarat, chairman of the Gujarat administrative reforms commission, the non-executive chairman of the GMDC, the chancellor of the central university of Gujarat and the vice chairman of the School of Ultimate Leadership to please come on stage to welcome our guests and introduce SOUL, sir.
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Hasmukh Adhia19:12
Good morning friends. A chief guest for today's lecture, today's SOUL session, Shri Narayan Murthy ji. The chief anchor Mr. Sudhir Chaudhary. Unfortunately the vice chancellor of Delhi University is not here today because he had a parliamentary committee engagement but I would like to remember him, Professor Yogesh Singh the vice chancellor, the faculty members, the heads of various institutions of Delhi University, my dear colleagues from SOUL, the director Mr. Sourabh Jhunjhunwala and the joint CEO Commodore Gaur. And dear friends, young friends. It gives me a great pleasure to welcome all of you to this special edition of leaders talk series which is jointly hosted by School of Ultimate Leadership and the Delhi University. It's my great great pleasure to warmly welcome Shri Narayan Murthy to this gathering of young leaders. Mr. Murthy is not only the founder of Infosys but one of the architects of modern Indian enterprise from humble beginnings to building a globally respected institution. His journey embodies vision, perseverance and ethical leadership. Beyond building one of India's most respected global enterprises, Mr. Murthy has also shared his wisdom through several acclaimed books including A Better India: A Better World, The Wit and Wisdom of N. R. Narayana Murthy and A Clear Blue Sky offering timeless lessons on leadership, values and purpose to generations of young leaders. What makes his story truly powerful is that he proved to the world that values and success are not opposite but they are partners. He's got many accolades as we know and you can imagine what a pride he would feel that his own son-in-law also became the prime minister of UK, a country which once ruled India. So I'm sure it's a great honor to have you here sir and your life continues to inspire even today millions of young Indians to dream boldly, to act responsibly and to lead with integrity. We are really grateful to you sir for your presence today and for sharing your life lessons with our young leaders. I also extend a warm welcome to Mr. Sudhir Chaudhary, a dear friend who will be anchoring today's conversation. Mr. Chaudhary is among India's most influential journalist and communicators. Through decades of fearless journalism, he has helped shape Indian national dialogue on governance, leadership and society. His ability to ask the right questions and connect with the aspirations of the youth makes him an ideal person to guide today's fireside conversation. We are delighted to have you Mr. Chaudhary. Thank you for coming. I'd also like to express my heartfelt gratitude to the Delhi University led by its vice chancellor Professor Yogesh Singh and the entire leadership for co-hosting this event with us. Delhi University has been a cradle of ideas, leadership and nation building for generations. We deeply value this partnership and thank you for your generosity in opening your campus and your community to this dialogue on leadership. Friends, at SOUL, School of Ultimate Leadership, we believe that leadership is not merely about position or authority. True leadership begins with self-mastery, the ability to govern yourself before governing others. Leadership is a lifelong journey of learning, reflection and service. This school was created with this very purpose to nurture the leaders in public space, public sphere who combine competence with concerns. SOUL is not merely an institution. It is a movement, a bold step towards cultivating authentic value-driven leadership for the greater good of the country. In an era where leadership is often inherited rather than earned, SOUL seeks to create a new paradigm, one that nurtures individuals with merit, commitment, and an unshakable passion for public service. The lessons of leadership are treasured in our own Indian wisdom. It'll be our goal to use that knowledge base fully in all our programs. SOUL is a section 8 not-for-profit company. It's an organization not for profit with seven distinguished promoters. Mr. Sudhir Mehta of Torrent Group, Mr. Deepak Parekh of HDFC, Mr. Uday Kotak of Kotak Mahindra Bank, Mr. Sajjan Jindal of JSW Group, Mr. Pankaj Patel of Zydus Life Sciences, Mr. Dilip Shanghvi of Sun Pharma and Mr. Sunil Mittal from Bharti Limited. Our 22 acre campus at Gandhi Nagar on the outskirts of the city, the foundation of which was laid on 14th of February 2025, is progressing on schedule. This beautiful one of its kind institution would be about 80% green. It aspires to have a platinum IGBC rating and embodies creative learning spaces. The RCC work is more than 85% complete and the campus is likely to be commissioned mid next year. The leadership programs at SOUL will empower aspiring youth, political leaders and civil servants to lead with integrity, altruism, excellence and a vision for Viksit Bharat. Our flagship programs, and some of you might be interested in this, our flagship program is going to be Youth Political Leadership Program where we will try to train young people aspiring to get into politics. This will be our flagship program. The admissions for this shall open this year, sometime in September of 2026, and the program will commence next year sometime between July and September of 2027. This will be our flagship program of a longer duration. It will nurture the next generation of political leaders thereby making politics accessible, achievable and aspirational even for those who do not have a background or legacy in politics. As the honorable prime minister has said, SOUL is meant to be a facilitator, a guide and a mentor in India's journey towards Viksit Bharat. Once again I warmly welcome Mr. Narayan Murthy and Mr. Sudhir Chaudhary to this leaders talk series. May I request you sir to please take the stage please.
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Sudhir Chaudhary28:19
Good morning. Okay, I know it's a T20 era and the attention span is really really going down but I will urge all of you to take it not just like a classroom where Mr. Narayan Murthy will give you some tips about leadership about your future but take it like an experience and believe me last night I was very anxious about this interview because I'm meeting him for the first time but I have heard, I have seen him so many times and I have been following his tips about leadership about life about philosophy. I'm sure you will have a lifetime memorable experience for the next 40 50 minutes. So Mr. Narayan Murthy, boss, we welcome you on behalf of entire Delhi University, our young friends, the faculty here, the SOUL management and Mr. Hasmukh Adhia because of whom we are all here. Thank you so much sir for giving me this opportunity. Can we have a louder applause? You know these days I have seen people are very reluctant, you know, when they clap for somebody or AI, we should build some app where it can create a clapping effect. If people are not clapping then maybe we can run it. Thank you sir. So my first question to you will be looking back at your student days what experience shaped your character the most because we have so many students here and they will be, you know, looking forward to take some tips about your life. So how about starting with your early life and what was that turning point?
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N. Murthy30:27
Sure. Well, first of all, Sudhir, thank you very much for this opportunity to share this conversation with you. I have heard a lot about you and it's a privilege to spend the next hour with you. I am also very grateful to Shri Hasmukh Adhia. I have known him for a couple of decades now. In the early part from a distance later on I did have opportunity to interact with him. He's one of the finest civil servants that our country has produced. So we're all very grateful to him. I'm also very grateful to the vice chancellor of this university to sit in this beautiful conference, beautiful hall. You know, it's really such a nice feeling. One of the finest halls that I sat through and most importantly to be able to spend an hour with India's most important asset which is our youth. That is a very valuable opportunity for me. I'm 80. So therefore I... You know I better you should put it here. Yeah. Wherever whatever. Yeah. So therefore to have this opportunity of spending this precious hour with India's most important asset that's the youth is a great privilege. Thank you for that. Now let me come to your question. I came from a lower middle-class family. In some ways, you could call it a poor family because my father for most of his career was a high school teacher. He taught physics, mathematics and English in schools. We were eight children, five sisters and three brothers. My grandmother was also there, my parents and my mother used to invite a child from a poorer family once a week. In other words, seven children on seven nights for dinner under an age-old practice called 'Vana' in Kannada. That means inviting a child once a week for dinner. So in other words, we were 12 mouths to feed on the salary of a high school teacher. So we were poor but we were very happy. Our house was full of joy. We used to compete with each other in games, in studies and everything. And father was a strict disciplinarian. Mother was very compassionate, very understanding. And we went from one Mysore taluka of Karnataka to another during our early days. So our life was in a very small insignificant world but it was full of joy. We were highly influenced by father's eloquent talk about Jawaharlal Nehru. At that point of time Nehru was building atomic energy, steel plants, Bhakra Nangal dam, IITs. In other words, every day he would talk about... we didn't subscribe to a newspaper at home because we couldn't afford. However, he would read it in the office and in the night he would tell us about all the wonderful things that were happening in India. So it was a very educative environment but a very simpler life because there was no social media, no smartphone, no internet that time, no distractions, nothing of the kind. Now, you know when I was in my high school second year which those days was the 10th grade, high school was 11 years, pre-university was one year, so I was in a high school called Sharada Vilas High School in the city of Mysore. And we had a headmaster Sri K. V. Narayan, KVN we used to call him. He used to teach us chemistry. He was a strict disciplinarian and one day he was conducting an experiment and he was to use common salt or sodium chloride for that experiment. And he was to put a little bit of sodium chloride or common salt into a test tube. And he was being very careful about how much of common salt he put into the test tube and a classmate of mine who was sitting in the front bench along with me he burst out laughing. So KVN came to our bench and he asked him, 'Man, what was it so funny about what I was doing? Why did you burst out laughing?' Children in general are more honest than elders. And therefore this young man of whatever 14 years, he said, 'Sir, you were so stingy with common salt which is so inexpensive. That's why I burst out laughing.' Then he said something which in some way shaped my career, my values with respect to the community, with respect to the public governance, all of that. He said, 'Young man, remember that this common salt belongs to this community of Sharada Vilas High School. It belongs to you. It belongs to every student in the class that is 60 of you. It belongs to me. It belongs to every section of this high school. It belongs to every staff member, every peon, everybody. Therefore, this is community property. I have to treat this property with utmost care.' And he said, 'Look, at 5:00 the class is finishing.' That was the last period, 4 to 5. 'You please come with me to my house and I will give you a glass jar full of common salt free because that is my personal property. This is the community property. Therefore, I have to be very very careful. On the other hand, you come to my house and I will give you a glass jar full of common salt because that is my personal property and I can deal with my personal property in whatever I want. But when it is a question of community property, I have to be extremely careful.' That was the biggest lesson I learned. And that formed the basis for how we put in the best public governance, best corporate governance principles at Infosys and that in essence was one of the most important lessons I learned and that is very important in India where we see lot of corruption in public life. Unfortunate.
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Sudhir Chaudhary40:13
My second question was on honesty and the corporate governance because people think that, you know, to get success and that to get success at a faster pace you need to compromise on your ethics. You need to go on a fast track where ethics and principles are left behind.
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N. Murthy40:37
No, no, no, not really. You know, right from my first day when I assembled six younger colleagues of mine, there were about 10, 11 years younger, Nandan, Kris and all these people. I assembled them in my house and I wanted them to tell me what their vision of Infosys was. Generally my style was not to say anything in the beginning because if I did that they would all accept my influence, they're very good people, very decent people, they would accept it. So I would allow them to say what they wanted and finally I would say. One fellow said we must become the company with the largest revenue. Second fellow said we must become the company with the largest profits. Third fellow said we must become the company with the highest market capitalization. Finally when they all finished when it came to my turn I said I want to be the most respected company in India. They said, 'How does it help us in terms of revenues, profits and all of that.' I said, 'Look, if we want to seek respect from our customers, we must deliver what we promised on time, within budget, and exceeding the quality that they expected. If we did that, we would get more and more business from that customer. They will refer us to other prospects and therefore our revenue will grow easily.' Do you think revenue is a byproduct when your main aim is not money and revenue. Your main aim is the quality and to keep your word in the market. Revenue becomes a byproduct. And it comes automatically. Respect should be the main purpose of any company because if you are respected, revenues will come. Then I said good employees will join you. They will stay with you long and they will also recommend other good employees to join your company and therefore you will become stronger and stronger. If you followed, if you sought respect, then you will not violate any laws of corporate governance. You will not create any related party transactions. Therefore, more and more long-term investors will stay. If you sought respect from vendor partners, they will help you in the time of your financial difficulty and they will extend the payment terms. If you sought respect from bureaucracy and political leadership, they will look at you with sympathy and appreciation and create policies that will help your industry grow. And finally I said if you seek respect from the society, all these stakeholders form part of the society and therefore you will go further. And therefore my belief was that if every corporation in the country were to seek respect as the most important objective, money will automatically come, profits will come, market capitalization will come, customers will come, good employees will come, good investors will come and then growth becomes easier. That is my belief.
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Sudhir Chaudhary45:09
As we know sir, you started Infosys with the initial capital of 10,000 rupees. And you had very limited resources. What was the most difficult time of your life and maybe the hardest leadership decision you took?
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N. Murthy45:25
Well, I think that is another very important question. It was in the early years of Infosys, 1995. We had been working with a very well-known Fortune 10 corporation from the US. Their style was to come once in five years and renegotiate prices down. There were four or five Indian companies of which Infosys was one of them who had been assembled in different rooms in Taj Residency in Bangalore. They would go from room to room and say they have reduced it by this much you have to reduce further etc. That was a standard technique. But when our turn came again I listened to all my youngsters. All my youngsters wanted us to continue at reduced prices. Those days there was no mobile. So I went out into the lobby. I used the landline, called my wife and said, 'Look, I know you're doing a great job of bringing up our children, but I'm going to take an important decision now, and I will most probably be spending 200 to 250 days in a year traveling in our markets, US and Europe. And you will have to take even greater responsibility for children.' Of course, as always, she said no issue at all. So I came back and despite all my younger colleagues wanting to continue the relationship with that Fortune 10 company. I said very respectfully, I declined to continue because I told that customer that if I were to reduce the prices for you, actually you will suffer because we will not be able to invest enough in attracting good employees, in providing reasonable compensation to them, in providing good training to them, in creating good technology and physical infrastructure in R&D, in quality and productivity etc. Therefore, by taking this short-term decision of reducing the price, you will actually suffer a lot more in the medium and long term. And as an honest person, I don't want to do that. And I'm telling you right now and therefore we, I very respectfully decline to agree to your terms and we will part with it. Please tell us to whom we should transition all the work that we are doing and we will do it. At that point of time this customer formed 25% of our revenue and we had gone public just two years before that and everybody told me that it was the most risky decision that I took. The most dangerous decision that I took. You know and I should not have done it but I took that decision. I worked very hard and I brought back our revenue. By 1998 1999 we went on NASDAQ and all of that. So in some way that was the toughest decision that I have taken. I took it because my wife supported me fully and the rest is history.
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Sudhir Chaudhary49:49
Your wife will be very happy when she hears all this. But since you mentioned your wife, family, children. It's like you know going to a flashback watching a black and white film of, you know, which mentions about his success and how he founded a great company like Infosys. But sir, it brings me back to the old debate about work-life balance. You... and you know where I'm going now. So you mentioned about family life, kids and so these days people talk about weekends, work-life balance. They don't want to work 70 hours in a week which I think you said so do you still think that productivity is equal to long hours or long hours necessarily lead to productivity and maybe you were misquoted that time when you said that 70 hours is important so we'd like to know the right perspective about your views on this.
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N. Murthy50:56
Well, I think that is another very good question. See, I may be able to run 100 meters in 15 seconds, whatever it is, but for me to do it in 13 seconds is almost impossible. But Carl Lewis, you know, the famous sprinter, he did it in 9.9 seconds. So it all depends upon how you train your mind, how much of work you can do. You see, when I say hard work, it does not mean go and sit and sleep in the office. That's not what I'm saying. Hard work means using that time productively. Now India whether we like it or not India is a poor country. Our per capita GDP is $2,818. Of that we, you know, about 850 million Indians require support from the government and the government very rightly gives them free ration. In addition in Karnataka I know they give free electricity, free buses, everything. The other day at 6:00 a.m. in the morning, I had come out of my house and there was a lady with a vegetable cart and there was a three-month old child lying at one part of the vegetable cart. So I asked her in Kannada what is this, you know, why is this poor child? She says, 'Sir what can I do? My husband has left and this is a three-month old child. I can't leave it at home. Therefore, I bring the child in whether it's hot sun, cold weather, whatever it is.' So, the reality of India is that there are lot of people who are suffering. However, this country has made huge sacrifice to give all of you education. You know I got scholarship every year from my pre-university. I got fourth rank for the state in SSLC. At that time there were four scholarships in Karnataka for four national scholarship students and I was the fourth one. I got scholarship in pre-university every year, of engineering, masters, everything. And this country, there are politicians who have sacrificed so much, I mean our prime minister has sacrificed so much, so much to take this country forward. There are people, there are factory workers, there are people who are working so hard to make both ends meet. So as a person who has received so much from our government, the least I can do is I have to give back a little bit more than that poor lady who was pushing the vegetable cart or that poor factory worker who works 8 hours a day then, you know, commutes for 2 hours for a paltry sum. This is what family is all about, right? What did our parents do or what did any parent does? If there is a bright boy or girl in the family, the entire family will make adjustment, make sacrifice so that that boy or girl comes up. And if that boy or girl does not show gratitude, what kind of a human being are we? Therefore, in my own lexicon, as my parents have taught me, as my teachers have taught me, as my bosses have taught me, I have no hesitation in saying that those of us who have received so much from our government, so much from our public governance system, we owe it to the country to work harder than the less fortunate ones.
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Sudhir Chaudhary55:59
Okay. I'm now redrafting this question. Do you think India in today's circumstances and the way we are today is ready for a 5 days week? Ready for long weekends, ready for work-life balance, ready for the people who are now even demanding a half day on Fridays so that they can, you know, go on a weekend mode from Friday afternoon onwards. Are we ready for that or do we need to wait for some more years, decades to be like the west people who are majorly into it?
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N. Murthy56:38
Well, you know there is a very simple way to solve these problems. We have to define productivity standards in every sector of our economy. For example, productivity standards in factory that's well known. If a factory worker can achieve in four and a half days what he or she would take five days to do and if he or she were to agree to increase the work productivity by 5% 8% every year I have no objection because everything has to be a positive sum game. The employees should benefit but at the same time the company should also benefit because otherwise we won't be able to pay taxes. If we don't pay taxes, who will build our roads? Who will build our public health system? You know, who will improve our primary education system? So therefore when you look at it from that perspective as long as outcomes are important rather than the time you spend I have no objection.
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Sudhir Chaudhary58:10
So you are so soft-spoken, comes out to be a very soft person, very humble. How were you like a boss? Were you very strict? How did you ensure that all your employees are giving you not 100% but 200%. And did you ever face a situation when you had to fire somebody?
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N. Murthy58:34
Well, you know, I am extremely friendly outside the office whether it is a peon, whether it is next person. Outside the office, I'm the friendliest person. For example, you know, just recently we built apartments three blocks from our house, three houses from our house for our cooks and drivers. It is exactly the same as my house. There is no difference between my house in terms of flooring, in terms of lighting, in terms of dining table, in terms of furniture, sofa, no absolutely no difference, refrigerator, microwave, oven, everything is provided. But so in other words outside the office I practice compassionate capitalism very much but in the office I have to do my job, my colleague has to do his or her job. If they don't do their job, I have to sit down with them in private because I follow the principle praise in public, criticize in private. That is the best philosophy. And we came out with a program called, what is called PCP, whatever that is. If an employee fell below minus sigma on this side of the normal distribution curve. We would put him or her into what is called PIP, performance improvement program for 6 months. We would of course counsel him or her. We would put him in performance improvement program. There would be special attention paid to him or her and all help will be given for him or her to improve. If that person did not put in extra work to make sure he or she improved at the end of 6 months. Why? So hard decisions have to be taken because at the end of the day the community is more important than individual. The community of Infosys, its interests will have to be guarded first before I guard my interest or your interest or his interest. So in my lexicon it is very clear, Infosys comes first and then I come. So we have but we will do it very nicely, you know, all of that we won't use bad words, none of that, very courteous but he or she will be shown the door after giving an opportunity to improve. So that's the way we have handled it.
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Sudhir Chaudhary1:02:19
It was like, you know, till now we were talking about 70s, 80s, 90s so let me come back to 2026 in present day today while we speak there's a global AI summit happening in Delhi just around 10 15 kilometers from here and people are saying that after the emergence of AI especially the, you know, tools like Anthropic, now Anthropic will end the glory days of India's tech giants. What will India's IT industry do when these AI tools emerge and take over. Do you think we are in danger?
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N. Murthy1:03:04
You know, I have always believed and I continue to believe like my friend Stephen Wolfram. Stephen Wolfram as you know is the person who invented Mathematica. Remarkable individual. He did his PhD at Caltech in physics at 18 and a brilliant person and he invented Mathematica that is a tool to solve differential equations, integration, you know, all of that. Anyway, I believe like him that there is nothing more supreme than the human mind. While AI as a productive tool will help us to automate certain kinds of work. What it does is it pushes us to go to do a higher level of work and that is where preparation, proper training, reskilling, different mindset, different way of thinking become very important to all of us. Yes, autonomous cars will come and I'm very happy if autonomous cars come to India because our people honk unnecessarily. It's a headache, you know, sitting in a car in India because a minor slowdown of traffic people start honking. Fortunately, if you use autonomous drivers, then it won't happen. So there are similarly remote surgery that'll be fantastic. Precision manufacturing AI will be very useful and certain aspects of software development will automatically be taken over. For example, simple code generation will be automatically done. But the biggest problem in software development, software services industry is requirement definition. What is that? That is defining the problem and putting it in a format that computers or AI can actually understand and then automate the downstream. That is where more and more of us will have to be trained to learn those techniques and to do a better and better and better job. So I don't think human beings, the power of human mind will be diminished. Human mind will continue to be the boss and human mind will invent new things, new activities and do those activities better and better and this is an opportunity for us. The fact that AI has come is to me a blessing not a pain. I think AI will do lower level automatable tasks but higher level human thinking kind of jobs will definitely be continued to be done by human beings and there will never be a day when the ability of human beings to think creatively will be stopped. That's my view.
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Sudhir Chaudhary1:07:12
So how are companies like Infosys gearing up to face this AI surge and did you, like people like you who are visionaries? You saw it coming in 80s, 90s and you, you know, brought new technology, new ideas, new concepts to the world. How are leaders like you looking at AI and are you also preparing yourself, your team, your product, tweaking them, fine-tuning them to face this AI surge to stay relevant in the market?
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N. Murthy1:07:41
Yeah, you know it's not fair for me to go into the details because I retired from Infosys in 2014 in the best traditions of public governance system. We at Infosys too, we said once you retire you don't go, you don't interfere, you don't participate only when they invite you you go there. So therefore I go to Infosys only when they invite me otherwise I don't participate. Having said that I think the key to all these things is to remember one thing: change is constant. Our technology changes rapidly. Business models change rapidly. New industries come up. Therefore, the most important thing is for our youngsters to improve their learnability. What is learnability? Learnability is the ability to extract generic inferences out of specific instances and use them in new unstructured situations to solve new problems. So our focus at Infosys has always been right from the time we founded it is to teach our youngsters learnability that is how do you learn a new technology? How do you learn new domains? How do you learn new customer practices? So my own belief is that a company like Infosys which has had a strong foundation on learnability rather than knowledge. We never taught a certain language. We didn't teach C or Python or whatever it is. What we taught them was what are the kinds of algorithms that we use? What are the attributes of each class of algorithms? What are the kinds of problems that these algorithms can solve? What are the dos and don'ts of those algorithms? So in an environment where the focus is on learnability, our youngsters I do believe will be trained pretty well to handle change and they will not become redundant. As long as they're willing to work hard, as long as they're willing to learn new things, as long as they're able to exercise their mind.
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Sudhir Chaudhary1:10:47
Okay. So, we can take few questions from the audience. We can take two, three questions.
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N. Murthy1:10:58
Yeah. No problem. Only I have only one request. It should be a girl first and then a boy alternately.
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Sudhir Chaudhary1:11:07
Okay. No, it has to be a girl first. So, and introduce yourself, what you're doing, what you're studying and then... I can see your hand there. Yeah, please.
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Audience Member1:11:16
Good morning, sir. I'm Grati Adav. I'm from Faculty of Commerce. I am a first year B.Com student. I wanted to know that what sir Murthy believed as young Narayan Murthy in the journey of building Infosys and which should be believed in everyone sitting here around the corner wherever one is to be the young future leader. Thank you, that's my...
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Sudhir Chaudhary1:11:47
No can you please put your question in a simple sentence. You know we, you know I'll tell you we Indians somehow have this habit of using very complex sentences. Let's have it as a simple sentence kindly. What is the question in a simple?
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Audience Member1:12:02
Yeah. The question is what did you believe in yourself in the journey of building Infosys as a young Narayan Murthy?
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N. Murthy1:12:16
Oh, thank you. I think it's a good question. You know, whatever beliefs we embraced were the product of our culture. That is what our parents believed in, what our grandparents believed in, what our siblings believed in, what our early teachers taught us, what our early bosses taught us. By and large, that's how your belief system gets built. And right from the beginning, my father was a person who believed in constant improvement. For example, when I got the fourth rank in SSLC in 1960 or so, I went to him. He didn't congratulate me. He didn't smile. He said, 'What happened to the other three ranks?' And he went away. And I was completely upset. I went to my mother. I said, 'What is this? I've got fourth rank out of two lakh students.' And this man didn't even congratulate. She said, 'No, no, that is his way of encouraging.' That's what she told me. Okay, next question. So then as I got third rank in pre-university at that time I didn't go to him but the point is father taught constant improvement. So I think the belief, our belief was you can do it if you use your mind, if you work hard, if you have good values. That was our belief. That's what my parents and my teachers taught me.
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Sudhir Chaudhary1:14:18
Now, now it's a boy. Yeah.
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Audience Member1:14:21
Good morning sir. I am Krishna Singh and student of electronics and communication, faculty of technology, Delhi University and one of the co-founders of CubeSunshar which is a space tech company. I want to ask a question that can leadership, can deadline be a compromise in leadership while still maintaining respect and credibility. As you mentioned that you are building a company not for the profit but for the respect. So can a leader compromise a deadline with the respect and the credibility of a leader of the employees?
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Sudhir Chaudhary1:14:56
Say it in a simple sentence.
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Audience Member1:15:02
Okay. So I mean that there's a deadline for a particular work you have provided to an employee which is a good...
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Sudhir Chaudhary1:15:07
Deadline for what?
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Audience Member1:15:11
For any task or a work you have provided a deadline there is a deadline but you know that might be, it might not be finished at that time. So will you be strict to the person, yeah you have to finish that work in that time only or you will provide some extra time.
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N. Murthy1:15:24
No, simple, simple, work harder, work more. If the deadline is there and you think that you won't be able to finish, work two hours extra. Make sure that you as the leader lead by example. If you did it, your colleagues will also do and you will complete it. But there is no need to compromise on respect. Where does that come in? All that is needed is to work harder. You know I'll tell you in China there is a very famous saying now it's called 996. What it means is 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. 6 days a week. And you know China has become world's number one exporter. 3.6 trillion dollar of export. And China for the first time in the history of this planet created a trade surplus of 1.2 trillion. No country, no America, no Germany, no UK, nobody did. Now, how did they do that? Because they had smart people. They had smart leaders. They had smart corporate leaders. They had smart employees. They realized that yes, we are smart, but we need to work harder. You know, I'll give you another example. My brother-in-law, my wife's younger brother is a very famous professor of astrophysics at Caltech. Caltech as you know is number one in physics in the world and he has produced 77 papers in Nature. If somebody produces two or three papers in Nature, he or she is considered big. This fellow has produced 77. Once I asked him, 'Shrinivas, what is the secret behind this kind of achievement?' He said it's very simple. People around me are all as smart as I am. Therefore, I have to work slightly harder. So I work hard and I am able to succeed better. So that's all there is to it. Nothing more.
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Sudhir Chaudhary1:18:00
So work harder and don't compromise on deadline. Last question we can take now.
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N. Murthy1:18:04
Now a lady, no now a lady. You see this is the indiscipline of Indians. I right in the beginning I explained I thought people understood basic English but once again the fellow is trying to violate that, break the line.
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Audience Member1:18:30
Good afternoon sir. I'm Yesi Singh from faculty of technology, first year student of computer science. I want to ask you that what is that uncomfortable truth about leadership which people don't talk about?
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N. Murthy1:18:44
Wow. What is the one uncomfortable truth about leadership which people don't talk about? No, I don't know that there's anything uncomfortable about leadership.
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Audience Member1:19:04
Like everything has, there are two faces. A coin has two faces. So there can be two faces of leadership as well.
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Sudhir Chaudhary1:19:09
Maybe she wants to know the secrets of a boardroom.
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N. Murthy1:19:11
No, you know my belief is that Mahatma Gandhi taught us an extremely important secret of leadership particularly when you're surrounded by people who can think and that is leadership by example. Walk the talk, practice the precept. So for example, at Infosys, I realized pretty early that instead of giving big lectures on why people should come on time and all of that. I said if I came before all others then I don't have to give lectures. So I used to leave home at 6. At 6:20 I was in the office throughout my career of 33 years and everybody was watching me. Everybody watches a leader and they want to learn good things from them. Even those that don't like that leader. So if you lead by example, it is somewhat uncomfortable because you had to get up at 5:00 in the morning but you know I used to get telephone calls from the US at even 1:00 in the morning but then I had to get up at 5, leave for office at 6. It was uncomfortable. Nothing worthwhile in the world can be achieved without discomfort and hard work. Please keep that in mind. Yeah.
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Sudhir Chaudhary1:21:00
So, sir were you also following the formula of 996 throughout your life?
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N. Murthy1:21:07
More than that I think because I used to be in the office at 6:20. I left office at 8:30 and reach home around 9:15 and by then the children would have finished their studies thanks to my wife and then, you know, we would have dinner together, we would spend quality time, you know, discussing how their school went and all of that and three times a week I used to take them to restaurants because I wanted to in some way incentivize them. So, no, I would say 14 into 6. I used to work six days a week and Sundays I used to work half a day. So 84 plus about 4 to 5, 80 to 90 hours a week I used to work.
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Sudhir Chaudhary1:22:14
Amazing. But you know, that's a very good takeaway from today's session.
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N. Murthy1:22:18
No, but you know I am 80 years of age now. Do I look like I'm dying or falling down? No. So hard work never killed anybody. Please understand this. And number two, there are lots of youngsters here, boys and girls. Let me also tell you that quantity is not as important as quality. Therefore, you don't have to spend lots of time with your life partner, with your children, with your parents. What is important is make whatever time you can spend with them quality time. Bring happiness, pleasure, pride to them. That is the secret of saying I want to spend more time with my children, with my parents, with my wife, with my husband. So on the other end, if you were to come home early and sit, someday your spouse may say, 'What the hell? Why don't you go to the office?'
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Sudhir Chaudhary1:23:41
Amazing. Okay. So, last question from me and this is like an audience not like from a journalist. Sir, you must have seen these days flamboyant leaders they are becoming the brand themselves. Take for example Elon Musk, Jack Ma, Sam Altman, Jeff Bezos, they are the brands. Whereas if we look at a leader like you, you have always been humble. You have stayed away from the limelight. Your product is the story. You are not the story. What is the right proportion of getting into the limelight, being the brand yourself or building a brand?
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N. Murthy1:24:17
You know, before I answer that, let me tell you it's some kind of apocryphal story. I believe once somebody went to Winston Churchill and said, you know, look at the prime minister, I don't know if some of the youngsters may not know how humble he is. And Winston said, 'He has a lot to be humble about.' So I think the reality is that at the end of the day all these brand glory, you know, applause, encomiums, they all stay on your face for a short period. It's like a revolving light. That light is revolving for a short period it will fall on your face and then it'll go away. So the most important lesson for a leader is to remember that all these encomiums, appreciation, slogans, great words, all of that, that's all transitory. Therefore, when that light falls on your face, it is very important for you to be humble, to be courteous and to be grounded. That's the way, that's the belief that I have learned it from my parents and from my teachers and from my bosses both in India and abroad and I have seen them extraordinarily humble, very courteous, unaffected by any of their extraordinary achievements and in my own small way I'm trying to follow them.
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Sudhir Chaudhary1:26:41
Thank you so much sir. Lot of tips, lot of wisdom we got from this session and as I said it was less like a classroom and more like an experience to spend some time with you. Thank you so much sir for your time. Thank you. Thank you.
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Host1:27:05
So, we'll take a selfie with all of you and question.
We can stand there. Just a vote of thanks for the national whatever whatever he has.
At work we must do our job well. If we all do our duty and do it well, Bharat will be unstoppable. That's what we got today. With values and hard work, you can do it. Thank you, sir. Thank you indeed. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your generosity of thought and for engaging with us so candidly. Thank you. A special word of thanks to Mr. Sudhir Chaudhary for hosting this very beautiful and riveting conversation. Thank you Sudhir ji. Thank you. A special word of thanks to Dr. Hasmukh Adhia whose vision continues to guide us and also to team SOUL and our larger team of volunteers from the University of Delhi and our volunteers from Mirabat without whose dedication this event would not have been possible. Thank you. We also extend our gratitude, our very deep gratitude to our co-hosts the University of Delhi and to Professor Yogesh Singh and his leadership team for their gracious support for hosting us in this beautiful auditorium and finally to each one of you in the audience for your participation, your enthusiasm and for being part of this very lovely journey this afternoon. Thank you. May I now invite Professor Rajni Abbi, director of South Campus, Professor Piyali Mang Mago, director, Campus of Open Learning and Mr. Sourabh Jhunjhunwala, the CEO of School of Ultimate Leadership to please come on stage for a short felicitation ceremony.
Mr. Jhunjhunwala, may I request you to hand over a token of our appreciation to Mr. Murthy.
Mr. Jhunjhunwala, may I request you to felicitate Mr. Jhunjhunwala? Professor Rajni, may I request you to felicitate Mr. Chaudhary. Professor Bile, could you please do the honors on behalf of Delhi University? Thank you ma'am. Thank you sir. A small felicitation also for Dr. Adhia and Miss Radha in the audience. Professor Hanit, could you please do the honors. Professor Rupam, could you please do the honors for Miss Radha? Please, ma'am. It's just a token of the University of Delhi appreciates your presence. Thank you. Thank you everyone. May I please request you to rise for the national anthem.
A selfie moment Sudhir. A selfie moment, please. A selfie moment for Mr. Sudhir Chaudhary with everyone. Sir. Yes, you can raise your hands. Thank you everyone. There is a lovely lunch hosted just outside and we will join you shortly. Please stay on for lunch and enjoy the lunch. Thank you University of Delhi for hosting this lunch. Thank you.