This is a show about facing fear, unlocking courage, and taking action.
Courage isn't necessarily a daunting thing. It's going to give you more purpose. It's going to give you more drive. It feels like making a courageous decision is going to get you closer to who you aspire to be. It's knowledge plus faith plus action equals courage. Always look for that road less traveled because you can always choose the easy path. The reality is that where you're going to grow as a person and as a leader is by going through those difficult moments that are going to push you to grow because you're going to come out of those as a stronger leader, a stronger person.
I love that we're starting with you having coffee. I've got my coffee because I mean let's we're kind of back to where we started, right? I mean what a journey it's been. I mean how long ago was that? Six years ago. It was during COVID, right?
I mean it feels like three lifetimes ago because if I think about the last six years, you know there was the two years of COVID, it's like you don't even know how to think about them, you know like did they really happen, you know and yeah it's all very strange.
Are you um by the way I do feel that makes a lot that resonates with me. Like I feel like I'm so different than the guy I was when we met way back when. You know, you've just I've like lived a thousand stories and I can't even imagine what you've seen since then. We're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about it today. But I guess I should start by asking are you are you in where are you? Are you in Puerto Rico or you?
I'm in I'm in Chicago at home today. So it was uh it's uh cloudy uh no great day but you know but better days are coming so you know spring is here baseball started let's see what happens now in the next few weeks.
All right I'm very curious I mean you know you go from a gig that has to be exhausting. I mean, I'm just I'm sure you're energized by it, but like I don't want to know what your calendar look like. And now, for once, you have a moment, right? And I'm sure you're excited about whatever it is that you're going to do next, but like what does non-CEO Carlos look like? What does Carlos like? Does Carlos play pickleball? Does Carlos golf? What are you doing? Like, you've got free time. Are you a runner? What's your jam?
Yeah, listen. I um I tried golf once and I said, you know, I don't get it. Uh so I tried a second time and I said, I definitely don't get it. So no, listen, I it's interesting because I am actually, you know, listen, I've been working since I was like eight years old. My dad had a business, you know, like a small pharmacy. So I worked every weekend and every summer. So the way I'm approaching this right now in this moment of transition is actually like a work. So I actually see it as a now it's a little different kind of work because it's about working on myself. So it's a little bit of opportunity to grow. So I've been reading a lot. I've been networking with people talking to leaders that I on industries that I have never spent time with. Um so it's it's great to almost kind of think about this moment of say okay how many times you get a chance to truly invest in yourself to grow in different ways. Uh in fact I also started advising a family company so it's it's always experiences that that I haven't had you know and until now certainly I continue to spend time and you know on the physical aspect of fitness and so forth and quality time with my family so I think it's a the calendar looks very different but I'm fully I would say it's a it's a different type of investment on time as I approaching this moment right.
Yeah. I I feel like you've always been a family guy and I know that's where like that there's trust there. Like I remember when we did Next together, I think it was and you told a story from a stage about you go queen.
Right. And you're like, Right. And like you're and your point your point was like your daughter's like, 'No, you're a queen. I'm a queen. We're all queens.' It was a compliment like you go queen. And I think I remember times when I would email you. I'm like, you go queen. Like, you know, it was just an endearing terminology. So, how you you've already you've already mentioned family. I mean, but your kids are out of the they're out of out of the house, right?
Right. Right. Right. You know, but but it's a well, first I will say, let me just give you a little context. I mean, well, I think of this moment as a transition for me personally. It's also a transition for the family, right? They get to see you more. They know that you're not, you know, working 15 hours a day. So this idea of of having the family before the transition is something that we actually discuss and like no it's a family. So I think it's a sometimes I think people think that this happening to the transition happens to somebody as a leader. It's like no it happens to everybody around you and and it's been helpful to hear the counseling of of people who have gone through this. And I think the second part of it is like it allows you to spend quality time with them. You know, uh as much as I I spent time with them in the past, we're trying to find experiences that that we haven't had. You know, I'll tell you one in particular, in a few weeks, we're actually going to go to Disney World, which they haven't gone since they were little girls, right? But it's like it's one of those things like hey we have the moment right now the family we have a week in which we're all together so we're all going to go to Disney World together you know so so it's it's actually embracing the moment too right now.
I got to ask is it just the core is it just the family or is there like a boyfriend sneaking into this trip too or is it just No way.
That's a different conversation my friend. No no boyfriend.
All right, good. So, so you guys are going to head down there. It's um Yeah, it's I don't know if your wife is like my wife at all, but there's times when I'm around I mean I travel like I you know I can't imagine I travel a lot but I imagine that you were also on the road. I can't imagine you weren't on the all over the place. I I get like worried for her. I get anxiety more like I'm breaking her routine when I'm home if that makes sense. like she's she has a routine and then suddenly I'm like she's like get on the road like get out of here like is is your are you are you traveling still as much or is it like half the amount of time or what's that?
I was still traveling but certainly not with the intensity that I was and I think that uh but it's funny you said about the routine because I think that's part of the acknowledging the transition that you're going through right cuz you know my wife has her own kind of kind of rhythm and and things that she wants to do with her girlfriends and so forth. And I think at the beginning I think she thought well I'm here so she should be more with me. And I'm like, 'No, you do you still have to do the things that you care about and the things that you want to spend time with and and don't worry about me.' And and I think that that took a little bit of like adjusting on both of our sides, you know, but I but it's worked, you know, well, but it takes it takes some adjustment, too.
I completely agree. Right. So, you know, I'm just fascinated by, you know, again, it's called the Courageous Podcast, right? So, like you just had this intense six-year run, right? At least since I've known you and you know, here we are. Kraft Heinz, it's officially in the rearview mirror. I'm If when have you had a chance to like step back now and go, you know what, as I think about what I do next, I'm going to carry forward into my next chapter X, Y, and Z. And I'm also just as curious to know if there's anything you wouldn't carry forward. Like, you know what? if I did this again, here's what I'm leaving in in that past life. Is there anything you can you can share?
Yeah, I mean, good question. You know, first of all, I think that the thing should carry forward, first of all, for me at least, is the people, right? Is, you know, there there are people that you can tell pretty quickly uh who are those who are going to be with you forever. And I think that has been very rewarding, you know, and you know, and and I remember having a conversation with uh Marshall Goldsmith, who I'm sure you know, and he said, 'Listen, what you're going to learn is that you're going to have the list of people who you think are going to be with you forever, the people who are not, and you're going to be right half of the time.' And and he was absolutely correct. You know, it's interesting to see the people you kind of carry forward now into the near future. So that's one that I definitely going to carry forward with me is some critical people that I trust and I care for. I think the second part of it to be honest is a lot of lessons. Um you know the reality is that one of the things you go through on transition is to give you opportunity to reflect. I mean after it was announced I was leaving Kraft Heinz I think it was within the first maybe three days I got a call from Hubert Joly who you know used to be the CEO of Best Buy. He's a professor now at Harvard and and he he what he would encourage me to do was like listen take the time right now to think about the lessons and and don't let this moment kind of go to waste and he was absolutely right. I mean it took like two or three weeks of intense reflections to think through what are those lessons you're going to take to make sure that you come out of this as a better stronger leader. So that that's something that I kind of carry forward as I go to the next stage and and frankly the things that I'm going to leave behind is a lot that you know anything that has to do with toxic whether is toxic people, toxic situations like you know I I I also have maybe a shorter patience for that as I go forward too.
Man, I I have a ton of empathy for you and not in a like a a sort of way like just trying to be as I don't think people realize it's not their fault either, right? But like they have no idea what it's like to be in your seat. They just don't. So So I love hearing that another CEO from another company reached out cuz that person's been in the seat and has dealt with all the chaos and all the crazy that you've that you've had to to navigate. And what a great lesson like like take a minute to audit and right again what's coming forward with you what isn't and and I and Carlos one of the things I've said about our company this is my third creative business I've started I'm still working still have to work but I I love the fact that courageous tells the universe who we're not for as much as who we are for and in some ways that filter is like you you're talking about that toxicity like if someone just wants to play it I'm probably not the person you should call, right? There's there's other companies you can turn to, right? But but if you really want to take on change, and I think this is why we're probably aligned. You you've shared with me in the past that courage is one of your three key leadership traits that you believe every leader should have. So, first of all, give me the give me the full suite. What are the three?
Uh is courage, vision, and empathy. Um, so in fact, if you go to my LinkedIn page, you see that I created an advisory called EVC to represent the acronym of empathy, vision, and courage. Those are the three key things I think every leader needs to have.
Well, now I feel like I should I I'm going to have to sue you because you have courage in your name. I've got courage in my name. So, Carlos, you'll be hearing from my lawyers, right? Okay. All right. So, talk me through the three because there's so many words you could choose, right? There's so many words you could choose and obviously we have a we have a love of courage but like take me through the three like how did you get here?
First of all I think that you need to have ambition in order to be to be successful as a leader and I think that's where the vision comes. You need to have kind of a dream a destination of where you want to go. You need to have empathy to bring people along because the reality is that nothing great happens by yourself. So you need to make sure that you have a combination of understanding the direction you want to go, the empathy to bring other people with you. And the reality is that along the way there's going to be so many headwinds that if you don't have the courage to be able to navigate through those, you're not going to achieve what you want. And frankly, you know, many times you feel like, you know, you look at people who have been successful, you seem like, oh, they have it easy. It's like never a successful story have been easy. There's always been so much challenges so many times that you have to have courage to to to go after I mean today you know every talk everybody talks about Nvidia and Jensen and you read and if you listen to his you know podcast he has done you know he talks about the fact that the many times the company was ready to go bankrupt you know and and this idea of moments in your life that you have to have the courage to be able to achieve that dream you know so to me being able to navigate those three things I think is a critical part of every great leader. Does that make sense to you? Did that resonate to you, Ryan?
I mean, like I I don't know what else. It's like you could end the episode here and I'd be happy, you know? I mean, to me, the I could have probably called our business clarity.
Because to me, I think when you talk about vision, it's the same thing. It's like, you know, you can't be courageous when you're cloudy.
And just you know, we we talk about north stars like can you see your north star in a cloudy night? No.
Right. Like and so the job of the leader is number one like do we have a clear path like it is vision and then you nailed it but this this clarity thing is interesting because you know as a leader that's one of the key things you owe your team and your organization you know I talk about the fact that if people are not clear then it's on the leader right it's not on them you need to make sure that people are clear on to you point is that vision but is that vision translating into communication that people can understand. So it's not so that idea of clarity I think is a is a it's something people don't talk too much about but I think it's an important nugget that you kind of hand it out.
