Anthony Scaramucci on His 11 Days in the Trump White House

I flew around on President Trump's plane. He'd call me 11:00 at night. He won. He named me to the transition team. The way he was handling himself to me is like so reprehensible. You know, I'm surprised that more people aren't speaking out about it. To be honest, the United States has a 95% reelection rate of incumbents and yet the Congress has a 14% approval rate. We got to get our arms around that as a society and we have to have a reckoning. Donald Trump might have added some lighter fluid, but the kindling and the sparks were there already.

Yeah, you listen. It's great to be on. It's great to be having lunch with Jamie. Thank you for having me.

Well, I mean, the hardest place for me to take you would be Ryo. So, we'd have to really organize that. But, I could get you in there. We could go to dinner there. It would have to be a week night, though. Uh, because that's just the way it works for civilians like me. Uh, but I'd probably take you to San Pedro right here on 54th Street, which is uh my favorite non-reo Italian restaurant. It's been open for 40 years. And these guys uh they grew up near my uh where my grandmother's village was before she left for the US. And so it's old school Napoli Don food. And you know, Jews and Italians like food, you know, and you would come and hang out with me at a great Italian restaurant.

So, I was I was there one time about, you know, 15 years ago, maybe longer. And my father got a reservation from a friend who who called him and said, 'Listen, I'm going uh I have surgery in a month and it's the night of my Ray reservation, so I need someone to take it. Can you take the reservation for me?' And I went and we were so excited and of course it was perfect. Tony Danza got up and sang when we were there. I mean it was like it was that was before Mr. Pelgrino, you know, Frank, if you don't if you remember Frank Pelgro, but he was the FBI agent in the Sopranos. Uh you went on a Thursday night, they opened up that juke box and guys like Tony Danza, Jimmy Darren, they all went and sang in front of the juke box with Frank. I've got videos of me doing that, but Frank passed away. Since then, we probably a little bit more low-key, but it's still it's one of the one most wonderful places in New York. It's the fixture of New York, but that's where I'd want to take you.

Well, I mean, listen, I'm going to think a tiny bit further back because I think it's important to understand the uh the history that I've had with the Republican party. So, I mean, I am a nobody from nowhere. I grew up on Long Island. My father was a crane operator and my mother was a makeup artist. I went to Tufts and Harvard Law School and when I got to Goldman Sachs, I failed at my first job at investment bank and they actually fired me and then luckily enough they rehired me in a private banking and so I was in private banking. I didn't have a rolodex but I can hustle and uh I was trying to figure out a way to meet influential people. Well, Jamie, I don't swing a golf club. I don't swing a tennis racket. I had no experience. Never been inside a country club. So, I went into politics. I wrote my first check to Rudy Giuliani in 1993 for $250. It got me into the salons of the influential in New York. He won that election uh which gave me some gravitas. I then went to go work for Pataki and then I worked for Bob Dole and I had this whole legacy of working for what I would call establishment Republicans. And so I was with Jeb Bush on the 2016 campaign and Trump bounced Bush out of the race. He called me and asked me to join his campaign and I made a series of mistakes in my life. But that was mistake number one because I could have just said, 'Hey, God bless you. I'm sort of establishment Republican. I'm not into white nationalism. I'm not into white national populism.' But I didn't do that. And I think this is a big cautionary tale for your viewers and listeners. That's where my pride and my ego kicked in. And I wanted to experience the presidential campaign in its full glory and I flew around on President Trump's then Mr. Trump's plane. So, it's very important to understand that piece of it because I worked on comms for that campaign, fundraising, position papers, uh, logistical management in terms of like where we're going to put the bunting and things like that. We had a very small short staff campaign. Uh, the Clinton campaign outspent us two to one. They outmanned us 3 to 1. So, this was like a presidential gorilla operation, if you will. And I was pretty close to him. I used to talk to him every night like he does with Scott Bessent or Howard Lutnick today. He'd call me 11 o'clock at night. We had a bilateral relationship where we were able to go back and forth with each other. Jared Kushner once said to me that Trump liked me because I reminded him of Fred Trump. I made my own money. Didn't honestly care uh two cents what people thought of me. I would tell you my opinion whether you liked it or not and wasn't a sycophant. And so that worked during the campaign. He won. He named me to the transition team and then my ego really got the best of me. Uh because I started believing I had something that's called Potomac fever. Jamie, do you know what Potomac fever is?

Okay. So, Potomac fever is when you think your shit does not stink and you're going to come down from Wall Street because you're smarter than everybody. Washington is a group of dummies, but not you. You're a genius. You know, you're coming from Silicon Valley. Washington is a group of dummies. I'm a superior technologist and I'm a rich guy. I'm going to descend on Washington and fix Washington, right? It's called Potomac fever. You're going to cross the river Potomac and you're going to change Washington. Haha. Because that doesn't happen. Washington changes you. And one of the sick parts about Potomac fever, one of the symptoms is you don't know you have Potomac fever. That's the sick part of it. Okay. And so, you know, Howard Lutnick, I mean, this think his name is Lutnick, but I call him Butlick, you know, or, you know, someone like Scott Bessent or a guy like Elon Musk, they all have Potomac fever. Okay? And so, they hit Washington. In Elon's case, you know, I lasted one Scaramucci, which is 11 days. Elon, I mean, I like Elon, he lasted 11.8 Scaramucci, but we round up for the people we like, so that was like 12. And so what happens if you're not careful with your pride and your ego? Your pride and your ego can get the best of you. And so I had this false narrative going in my head. I was going to help out. I was going to go work for the president of United States, fly around on Air Force One, do press conferences from the Brady press room. And Jamie, you know, my wife hates Trump like almost as much as Melania hates him. So it's I mean that's a very high standard of hatred. I mean, it's like Eastern European hatred, which is like permanent, like, you know, generational hatred. And I didn't listen to her. I ended up go work for Trump. I got fired after 11 days. But here's the message in that story. I tried to stay loyal to him. I'm a long serving Republican. I've been in the Republican party for 40 years and I tried to stay loyal to him but it became impossible because I thought the stuff that he was doing and the way he was handling himself even if you like certain policies which they're now even more narrow the policies uh you couldn't stand as a principal person for the behavior and and you know look I know this is going to be coming out in January I just say you know among you the Rob Reiner rhetoric that came out of Donald Trump's mouth after the murder of Rob Reiner, okay, and his wife and this unfortunate situation with their very troubled son. The notion that somebody who's the leader of the free world and the president of the country could talk like that, okay, to me is like so reprehensible that uh you know, I'm surprised that more people aren't speaking out about it to be honest. So, so that's my story. That's the arc of my story. Ambition, pride, egoentrism. This is a cautionary tale for people who believe their own shit like I once did. And so that humbling experience of getting fired like that made me uh more psychologically minded, more self-aware, uh more empathetic, but it was a real comedown, Jamie. And uh you know, it's life. You know, what are you going to do? you know, I learned a lot about myself and I also learned a lot about my friendships uh going through that.

So I mean, can I respond to that though? I think it's very important to understand the cognitive dissonance that goes on because Donald Trump is a great goalpost mover. So you're a Republican and you're running against a Democrat. Are you a Democrat or a Republican? Well, I'm a Republican. Well, Trump is repugnant. He's saying really bad things about Mexicans. He's repugnant. He's saying really bad things about Latinos or he wants to ban Muslims from the country. Uh, he's repugnant. And what you do is you you do this equivocation in your personality and you move the goalpost with him. Okay? And you do that because you say, 'Oh, well, he's a Republican. I'm a Republican.' And even though his uh his style and his personality is repugnant, his policies are Republican. So, I'm going to stay with him. And so, I I stayed too long. Frankly, I broke in 2019, two years after my fire. I mean, I didn't want to be that baby Jamie where I I got fired, turned on the president. I said, 'No, let me try to be loyal to him.' Uh, I stayed for two extra years. And then he started saying that the women of the squad, these are four liberal Congress women, three are black, one is Hispanic, three are born in the country, one is naturalized from Africa, that these women should go back to the countries they originally came from. He's still saying it, by the way. And I said, 'Okay, that's American nativism.' They may have said that to your grandparents. They certainly said it to my grandparents. They wanted him back in Italy. It's a form of racism. I spoke out against it. He hit me on Twitter. I hit him back. I think I called him the fattest president since William Taft because I know he hates being so effing fat. And then the fight started. Um, and you know, I I lasted and went too far. So, this is what happens to you. these people are sitting there and maybe the Reiner thing is too far for them and you're looking at them saying, 'Well, that's too far for you. You probably should have left when he said the Mexicans are rapists in June of 2015 when he started the process of running for president.' But I think it's a very important thing for your listeners to understand about this country. This is the country, okay? We have had a veneer of aspirational rhetoric. We've had a yoke of soaring idealism and American concepts of American exceptionalism, but underneath that there's a group of unsavory people. I'm not saying it's the majority of the country. It may be now. He won the popular vote uh a year ago, but it is a very large group of the country are nativist. A very large group of the country are isolationists. A very large group of the country are uh race baiting and have issues related to other races. They're anti-immigration. I'm not just talking about illegal immigration. I'm talking about legal immigration. And so we got to get our arms around that as a society. And we have to have a reckoning. And I and I and I sort of weirdly feel that Donald Trump represents that for us. I feel I feel like he's going to force us now to have this reckoning with ourselves and then hopefully some type of redemption and reconciliation.

I mean I'm I'm I'm smiling because we are generally okay with each other in front of each other. Uh but when we are clothed in anonymity uh we have a tendency to go off on each other in social media. We've also let our adversaries into our social media. So we have weapons-grade intelligence technology known as Tik Tok. Uh in addition to weapons-grade intelligence gathering, it's also weapons grade propaganda. So, we've got uh a reasonable percentage of white males below the age of 30 that think the moon landing is fake. They also think u Osama bin Laden is some kind of revolutionary uh to be admired as opposed to a terrorist who took down the World Trade Center. So, so you you have big tech which hasn't gotten its wakeup call even though there's a country uh by the that's a whole continent by the name of Australia that has now banned big tech social media for people below the age of 18. Uh the UK government is now thinking about this. Uh this stuff is extremely dangerous. It's uh it's monolithic in terms of how they run the rage in the algorithms because the rage is what keeps people uh transfixed and the the emotional charge is what keeps people's eyeballs on the websites. So, so and they they have no interest in changing it and they've spent so much money lobbying the government that the government may not necessarily change it and they certainly uh you know these companies would have been broken up in past cultures in America. You know, you talk about the Supreme Court being a statement of the culture through the weather and not a specific daily forecast. The the Americans would have broken up these seven companies. You know, I'm I'm old enough to remember when Judge Harold Green broke up AT&T, which ironically unleashed the technology. They were sitting on all of this technology. They unleashed the technology that created the Mag 7. So everything you're saying is correct. Face to face. There's levels of harmony face to face. There's levels of niceness. And in general, I think the American people when they're polled, they want a centrist government. when they're polled, they want fairer, more exacting gun control laws. Uh it's not a perfect system. You know, if you think about the best of class western liberal gun control laws, that's Australia. Yet, we had these anti-semitic rage killings over the weekend, which are also reprehensible, but we've had far fewer of them in Australia because of the way the gun control is mandated there. So, but you know, even though the American people want it, the money that goes to the politicians is tied to allowing the kids to get shot in school. So, if the incentive is I can allow the kid to get shot in school, but I can get reelected, shoot the kid in school, give me the money, I want to get reelected. And so, we've lost our way, Jamie, in terms of the public service. We have people in place now that are serving themselves. They're insider stock trading. They're flipping different types of uh stocks pursuant to legislation that they have the heads up on before everybody else. They're taking money in godless amounts of money. Uh they're they're a gerontocracy and uh listen, I have no problem. I'm not an ageist sort of a person, but I do think if you're staying too long in the government, you get stale, you get complacent. And we know something about power. Jamie Lord Acton was right about power. Power corrupts. Okay. And what did he say? An absolute power corrupts absolutely. And so you put somebody in the Congress for 40 years, they're going to do loose and fast things that are potentially harmful to the public uh in their effort to self-serve. And and by the way, we gave Trump another chance at the White House. He went he went in the first 10 months of his second term to rack up $4 billion for himself. And I'm sure we're I'm sure we're low by half. So So to me, yes. In a face-to-face environment, we do we bully each other? We generally don't. If I call myself QP749 and I I can attack you viciously and if you're a 14-year-old boy or a 14-year-old girl and I'm doing that to you viciously, you can have very harmful psychological effects on somebody.

Well, there was no other option. But the other thing he also did was by doing what he did, he highlighted the problem. So now there's many interested Americans that are coming in and saying, 'Whoa, this is terrible.' Right? Governor Schwarzenegger who started out as a Republican, but if you really follow him these days, he's a 78-year-old centrist. He's trying to explain to people that it's not fair. If you have 45% of the population in Massachusetts that are Republicans, how can you have absolutely zero representation of those people in the House of Representatives? And then the flip side, of course, would be uh in in red states, you know, state of Tennessee, you know, 40% of the people are Democrats. No representation in the House from the state of Tennessee. This is all done through the process of gerrymandering. And then you know institutionalists and traditionalists Jamie will push back and say well that's happened for several hundred years and it's not that big of a deal but it has happened at a exponential exponential lift in policy. Now it has become very very scary and very very dangerous. Trump is calling the governor of Texas. I may lose the house. figure out a way to gerrymander even though you've got lots of Democrats in your state and they should from a pluralistic theory perspective be represented cut off their air supply make those districts Republican and by the way we have the technology to do that you know we can scan the cookies on your phone uh your hardtop computer your laptop and we can figure out uh with a 99% accuracy whether you're Democrat Republican or you're an independent dependent and we can move your house, move your voting situs out of our district to protect our incumbent. And and I want you to think about this. The United States has a 95% reelection rate of incumbents. And yet the Congress has a 14% approval rate. I mean, the approval rating is slightly above Kim Jong, the North Korean dictator. Okay? Yet these people, it's like if you and I open a restaurant, I was the chef. I stunk as the chef. My Yelp ratings were ones, but I never got fired. And that's what's going on in the body politic right now. So, when you hear me speak about this, I'm talking about the disease, and I'm also talking about something that you know intuitively. If you're a software engineer listening to this, you get the you get the thing started and then you do an iPhone 1, 2, 3, and lo and behold, we have an iPhone 17. Same thing with the software from Zoom that we're talking on. Uh, the Constitution was a living document, Jamie. 27 amendments. Uh, it's a 236-year-old document. We should be getting an amendment every 7 to 8 years. And yet, we've had no amendment since 1993. And in '93, the 27th was procedural. The big one was a civil rights amendment. That's 59 years ago. uh 60 years ago actually because it's uh it's uh it would it would have been passed in 1965 by this time. But the point I'm making, you have stultified the system. You had four constitutional amendments in the United States from 1960 to 1971. Four. You've had no amendments for 32 years. And so now we've lost our way. The social contract doesn't foot to the constitution. But if it did, we would want an end to gerrymandering for sure because that would liquefy the process and make the thing less dramatic and less tribal. I would want to end Citizens United. And for your viewers and listeners that may not know what that is, let me just be brief. It's a Supreme Court decision that was made in January of 2010 where Justice Scalia said if you got money, it's your first amendment right to put as much money as you want into any political cause or any candidate. It's your first amendment right. But what that's created is a separate but equal democracy. So if you look at the legislative agenda, Jamie, from January 2010 to today, it is skewed to big business, big pharma, tax cuts for the rich, corporate welfare, a kleptocracy funnel, all of which is dominated by wealthy people and they'll line up behind willing takers. You know, they'll go to the inaugural and they'll sit behind the president's family and they'll light the president up on his inaugural. They'll give them money for Melania documentary and they'll say, 'Okay, please don't break us up. Please don't use the antitrust laws that you've had in place to make the system fairer and more meritocratic to break us up. We're trying to become trillionaires. We don't mind that our fellow neighbors are suffering and we don't mind that the disposable income and purchasing power is down in the country. We want to be trillionaires.' And so where are the public servants that are going to come in and say, 'Hey guys, I'm sorry. We can't live like that. It's not fair to it. It it makes for a very unhealthy country.' I want I before you ask me another question, I want to make sure I hammer this home for people. You need $131,000 today in America to live in a house and to have some level of comfortable living standard where you're not under an amazing amount of financial pressure. If you're below that number, you're missing doctor's appointments, you're missing dental appointments, you're likely missing some prescription drugs that you need to take because lo and behold, you have to forego certain things as you're as you're doing the rotisserie of trying to meet all your bills. So you 131,000 if you're on the northeast corridor on the northeastern seaboard of the United States, you can double it. Okay? But I'm talking about the average in the 50 50 states. Jamie, the median income in the country is $84,000. That means a very large percentage of the American population is doing without. They've got a busted car. They've got a broken window. They've got a a a medical procedure that they're delaying. They've got a cracked tooth that's rotting in their mouth right now because they can't get the help that they need cuz they don't have the money. So, what are we doing, guys? Honestly, what are we doing? Is that how we want people to live in this country? What are we doing? And so, so for me, I'm talking out about it because I really feel I don't want to live in a barbed-wired security compound in my McMansion, Jamie, while my fellow neighbors are struggling and suffering. But I'm just telling you the numbers so people understand how dire the situation is.

Well, Trump one, she would already be out the door. Trump two, he's defending her, calling him an alcoholic's personality because he doesn't want the embarrassment of firing people. You know, Hegseth would have been gone. Bondi probably would have been gone. Cash Patel would have been gone. Trump one. But Trump has decided that if he's firing people, it makes him look bad and they're scalps for the left and he's getting owned by the liberal media. Okay? So, he's not going to fire her anytime soon. But her coattails are going to get cut. Her access to his power is going to get cut. She's having a hard time right now because she told the truth, you know, and what do we hate, Jamie? We hate the truth. You know that. I mean, there's a great allegory from 3,000 years ago. Homer tried to explain this to us. He had the character of Cassandra in the book, The Iliad. This is, of course, about the Trojan War. And the goddesses gave Cassandra, this was the king of Troy's daughter, they blessed her with clairvoyance and they told her she could see the future, but they cursed her with nobody believing her. So she went to her father and said, 'They're going to launch these ships against us and they're going to destroy our city.' And he laughed. But Homer was trying to tell us 3,000 years ago that we don't like the truth. And when we hear the truth, we don't like the truth. And then we attack the truth teller. We shoot the messenger. So Susie, who I know forever, I worked with her on the Romney campaign. She's been a Republican operative for multiple decades. Susie has got the white flag up. Susie knew exactly what she's doing. She's going to claim now that she was off the record. She's walking back the statements. Scott Jennings out there putting tweets out to support her. But she knew what she was doing. She wanted people to know that Vance is an imbecile. She wanted people to know that Vought, the guy running OMB, is a horrific person. She wanted people to know what she thought of these people, including Donald Trump. She wanted them to know. Okay, why did she want them to know? Because she is taking incoming in that seat like you cannot believe. The pressure on her to do abnormally stupid things as his chief of staff is overwhelming. She's 10 months in the job and she's ready to explode. You know who was like that? John Kelly. John Kelly fired me. His first official act as chief of staff was to fire me. And then he spent 18 months pulling whatever remaining hair he had left on his head trying to corral and tame the absurdity of Donald Trump. And by the way, General Kelly and I are personal friends. I love his wife Karen. I will tell you that he saved us on more than one occasion. And so Susie Wiles is trying to tell you, hey, I've been in here as a hockey goalie trying to stop every stupid Trump shot on net I'm trying to block on behalf of the country and these imbecilic sycophants around him are making things worse. Okay. And that was an SOS. Okay, if you've ever seen an SOS before, that was an SOS. And so she'll leave. She'll leave unceremoniously. He'll kick her to the curb. But he's a very unwell guy. Okay? And I'm not talking about physically with his ankles swelling and God only knows how many MRIs he's getting for whatever health reason. I'm talking about his mentality. I'm talking about the sociopathic, bizarre, uninhibited, grotesque behavior that this man is creating from the Oval Office on a daily basis in order to get your attention and if you're a liberal, to own you and to make you feel horrified and to catch your hair on fire. Okay? And by the way, you know, I knew Rob Reiner. I didn't know him super well. He came to one of my conferences. I saw him at MSNBC at Rock Center when I used to go over there for interviews. I met him and his wife. They're very very nice people. He had a political ideology. He was strongly opposed to the president as am I by the way. Okay. But he was murdered. Okay. If you're opposed to me, okay, and I'm in the political world and you get murdered, I'm going to act like Donald Trump. I mean, you gotta... and by the way Reiner was on the television two months ago talking about the tragic death of Charlie Kirk. He didn't agree with Charlie's philosophy or his ideology, but he said that this was a horrific tragedy and a horrific act and a man shouldn't be slain or gunned down for their views. Even if I don't agree with the views, and even if I think some of the views are out there, that's political violence. There's no place for it. Now, this was a dysfunction in this man's family. You know, it's pretty clear. I mean, there's evidence now with the cameras. Everyone's innocent until presumed guilty, but I think as the evidence unfolds, it's pretty clear he was murdered by his son. You have to think of the horror of that and you have to think about how horrific that is. And then for the president of the United States to talk like that, I mean, come on. This is not normal. This is a country that has problems. A country that started in slavery, civil rights movement, was cantankerous, segregation. This is not a country without problems. But this is a country that is based on some soaring ideals. And we're trying to fix these problems. And as Lincoln said, it's not a perfect union, but we're trying to make it more perfect. We're searching for the improvements. And then you got a jackass like this that's sitting there to create more hatred and more division in the country. You know, look, I'm sorry I'm on a soapbox today discussing it with this level of fervor, but people have to wake up. There's hopefully there's a few Republicans that listen to your show and they say, you know, we got to wake up. This is not right behavior. If you're a Republican and you may not agree with Republican ideology, Jamie, but at least a Republican president like George Bush or Republican president like Ronald Reagan, George Herbert Walker Bush, at least they handled themselves with some modicum of decorum and respect and dignity that that office demands. And the same thing I would say to a Republican listening about a Bill Clinton or a Barack Obama or even a Joe Biden. You know, this is reprehensible. And we need reform and we need people on both sides to step back and look at this and say, 'Hey, man, we can't go in this direction as a country.'

Well, I mean, Wes Moore is a guy like that on the Democratic side. I think Gavin, look, I'm not a Democrat. You know, I'm a centrist Republican, but if you told me I think Gavin has the best chance to win. This is politically incorrect. Hopefully, you won't cut it from the show, but two women have unsuccessfully run for president as Democrats right now. And the party went too far to the left with the wokeism and somebody like Gavin could help bring it back into the center and the fact that he's a white male I think is important for the Democrats right now. I know that's people's heads will get blown up and the hair will get set on fire for me saying it that way, but I'm just being honest with you about it. Okay? And I would say on the Republican side, someone like Youngkin is a more respectable person. And he's somebody that holds himself with some level of dignity. These are the types of people that I would look to and say, 'Okay, that's a good guy.' You know, Cory Booker is rock solid. It's not clear to me he could win, but he's a rock solid sort of a human being. He's a great public speaker. He's an artful guy. I don't know if he's going to run again, but it's not clear to me he could win. But I'm just saying to you that there are normalesque people on both sides of the aisle. Again, you and I might go through their policies, might go through their ideology, and may or may not disagree, but at least we say, 'Okay, that person is not going to disgrace the office of the presidency.' You know,

But she's not wrong, though. See, this is the thing. The problem with us now, we're so crazy with each other, right? Like the way we talk to each other in the 1970s. We're not allowed to do that anymore. You know, there was something on Twitter made me laugh. Archie Bunker, you're probably not old enough to remember Archie, but I'm old enough to remember Archie. And Archie Bunker was saying to the woman, 'Who makes the meals in your house?' And the woman said, 'My husband does.' 'You have your husband make the meals in your house?' He goes, 'Why? You'll think of him less masculine?' and he goes, 'No, I'll think he's a queer.' Right? That's offensive. I'm not saying it isn't offensive. I mean, maybe you'll censor me for saying that, but that's how we talk to each other in the 1970s. Okay? Yes, there's room for improvement. There's room for reform. I certainly wouldn't say that today, but we're missing something. We're missing a beat in the culture if we're going to try to purify our language towards each other in every step of the way. You're going to miss a lot of people are going to quietly say, 'Oh, I agree with Jamie and Anthony.' And then they're going to close the curtain. They're going to vote for the orange maniac. They're going to say, 'I got to vote.' You know what they said in the exit polling, Jamie? You ready? 54% of the white women in the United States, they voted for Donald J. Trump. Did you know that? And you know what they said? I'm voting for my... And by the way, 46% of the overall women, you know what they said, Jamie? I'm voting for my husband. I'm voting for my son. I'm voting for my brother. I hate the woke culture and I know that Donald Trump is going to represent something that's dead set against that.

How's that for messaging?

All for those improvements. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm a gay rights activist. I was one of the Republicans that worked with Cuomo in 2008 to create marriage equality in New York. I will help to make that a national movement. I'm all for the equanimity and for the equality of people. But what I'm not for is overly sanitizing our comedy, overly sanitizing Hollywood, overly sanitizing our discourse because it's unnatural, Jamie. Okay. And it's going to come back and bite us.