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And yeah, we're going to get started with the big event. We are going to be talking about how one of the most influential companies in the world will stay. One of the most influential companies in the world, the CEO of Alphabet and Google, Sundar Pichai is here with us. Let's welcome Sundar to the stage. Thank you so much for being here. We talked last year about a year ago on the circuit. So, it's really good to catch up. Good to see you again. Starting with the most important question. Did you come in a Waymo?
I would have loved to. We're still working on making sure they are safe and can get through freeways. We're making great progress, but hopefully same time next year I can do it all the way from Mountain View.
All right. I'm going to hold you to it. So I just want to start with a vibe check post IO. I feel like we saw a slightly more confident and cohesive Google. How would you describe it? Like are you getting better at choosing your own dance music?
Look, I think when you undertake a set of things, it takes time, but internally we have known all of this was in progress. We've been training Gemini, releasing versions every few months. I think 2.5 was a real breakthrough in terms of capabilities and it's at the frontier of where the models are and so putting that in our products across our suite of products. I think that's what makes the story come alive.
So candidly I'm using chat bots more and I'm using Google less. Maybe you are too. What is the fate of search in a world of AI agents and personalized answers? Is it evolution or extinction?
Look, people have been asking this question now for a couple of years. You've had these chat bots scale up to hundreds of millions of users. We've grown in queries. So I think it feels very far from a zero sum game to me. To use other areas in parallel like Tik Tok came in, everybody started using Tik Tok, YouTube grew and did very very well in those moments too. So I do think search is very very good at what it does. Empirically people value it for what it does and they're actually showing it by using it more.
So investors are clamoring to know but you haven't shared the specifics. How much money are you pouring into AI and how much money are you actually making from AI?
Well, in 2025 our capex is $75 billion, right? So we are definitely investing for the long run but it's the same investment which powers businesses from search to YouTube to cloud to workspace to Android and play to way more. And to our subscriptions business we just launched Google AI Pro and Ultra and it's definitely doing well. I've been pleased to see the reception. So I think it's such a profound technology. I feel the opportunity ahead is bigger than the opportunity we had in the past.
So to double click there if I may. What specific new revenue streams do you see increasing and what revenue streams do you see decreasing?
There is, look, our entire, the growth in cloud like Vertex AI is up 40x in usage on a token basis just in the last 12 months. So obviously we have billions of dollars in providing AI based solutions in AI as an infrastructure, AI subscriptions. So there are many many new businesses.
YouTube and the web more broadly is being overrun with AI generated content. What effect is that having on Google products and services? Are you finding you need to allocate more resources to filter out the low quality content?
I mean, look, anytime there are these technological inflection points, it's always a cat and mouse game, right? So, the new technology creates new opportunity. More people can create content, but you also have a rise in low quality content. I think moments like this is what we actually, it's what Google is good at, right? Separating, finding the needle in the haystack, making sure you surface the higher quality content. We are using Gemini to help improve YouTube's recommendations. So we're using AI to help improve how we direct content etc. There are good content being created using AI as well. So we're just trying to elevate high quality content.
There is a lot of anxiety out there about the health of the open web. You know AI as you just said, it relies on the good stuff like it relies on high quality content. As you push further into AI generated content does that undermine the entire system like does the web become just a watered down version of itself?
Look, it's another area. People have had questions about the web now for the past 10, 20 years, right? I said this during IO, but if you look at the index, we index the web, the number of web pages that we are indexing is up 45% just in the last two years alone.
What about the last two months?
There's just definitely people are creating a lot more content. I do think creation is getting easier not just in web across, if you look at YouTube etc the amount of content is exploding. So I do think as a content creator you have to think about many many modalities, platforms etc but the opportunity space gets bigger.
You've said AI overviews are good for publishers. The publishers we talked to say it's tragic like studies show dropping clickthrough rates. I don't always click through when I see an AI overview. You're answering the question for me right there on Google. Publishers say they can't opt out or they might be de-indexed from Google entirely. So what is the concrete evidence that this is actually good for them and not just good for Google?
A few things. I think compared to most companies in the world we take care to design experiences which is going to showcase links. We took a long time testing AI overviews and prioritized approaches which result in high quality traffic out. I'm confident that many years from now that's how Google will work. We think the value proposition in Google is people come, yes sometimes they may get answers. That was true when we launched featured snippets many years ago. But people come back, people are curious, people are expanding their use cases and people do seek out sources on the web and we are going to prioritize approaches. Obviously with AI overviews, the quality improves, the context we are giving users improve. What we are seeing is people are clicking and going to a more diverse set of websites and they are spending more time on average per click.
You announced new spectacles at IO. Maybe Google Glass was ahead of its time, but I'm curious what evidence you have that we really want to put computers on our faces now, and give tech companies even more of our information.
Look, ultimately, you could have asked questions like this about driverless cars, right? Ultimately, it's the people who choose what they want to do, right? And so, you will only succeed in these things if you're building something delightful. I am wearing glasses right now, right? So, for me, they don't have a camera in them, do they? They don't. And they don't have a display in them. They don't have audio in them. But if you could make something which is no additional cost for me, but when I want it to, it's going to give me important information. Make it more useful. My life gets better. Look, I've been playing around with the AR glasses. In fact, I was talking with a friend who had it on and shot a basketball and he had an airball and it told him like that was a bad airball, right? So, look and he still wants to wear them. He found the experience delightful. His natural instinct was like, 'What should I be doing better?' Right? And so you're going to have these things, be a companion, be a coach, all of it. So, I think we have to do it tastefully, but if done correctly, I think people will respond positively.
The Jony Ive of Sam Altman alliance, it seemed perfectly timed to crash your IO party. Did that rain on your parade a little and are you at all worried?
Well, look, I expect in this moment to be that there'll be a lot of innovation, right? Enormous respect for what Jony has done and I'm looking forward to seeing what new computing devices are on the horizon.
Mark Zuckerberg has said that almost all of Llama's code will be AI generated very soon. Satya Nadella has said it's as much as 35% for Microsoft right now. You've said 25% last year, I believe. You said that of Google's code is AI generated. You have over 180,000 employees right now. Is it half that in the future?
Look, I expect we will grow from our current engineering base even into next year. Right. Because it allows us to do more. Right. I think the opportunity space is also increasing. I just view this as making engineers dramatically more productive. Getting a lot of the mundane aspects out of what they do, allowing them to spend on higher value added tasks. But that means it's an accelerator. People will be able to do more, which means maybe we'll create new products and hence we will need more people. At least in the near term to me it looks like we will expand engineering velocity and that doesn't mean we're constrained in what we will do. We'll end up doing more as a company as well.
What about the long term?
Look, I mean, long term horizontally as a technology it's tough to predict all effects of it long term. Just the fact that today 60% of the jobs today didn't exist in 1940 right at least by an MIT study by an economist called David. So it is so tough to sit at any given time. I was just looking at YouTube in India there are 100 million channels in India alone there are 15,000 channels with 1 million subscribers. Just imagine describing this world to someone in India 15 years ago, right? It would make no sense. So, I don't want to, I think it's a bit pointless to think that far ahead, but I think we underestimate how expansionary this moment is.
So, this isn't too far ahead. So, I hope you'll humor me, but Anthropic CEO says AI could eliminate 50% of white collar jobs in the next five years. Unemployment rising to 10 to 20%. Do you agree?
Look, I think we should take those concerns super seriously, right? With this technology, to my earlier point about new jobs getting created, you're going to create new opportunities. I look at something like Veo 3 with video. It's clear to me you're going to allow pretty much everyone in the world to be a sophisticated creator. I can't sit and linearly imagine what the impact of that will be. So you're creating all these new opportunities you have tremendous positive externalities. We will tackle tough vexing problems, make progress on areas like cancer, educate a lot more people. As part of that, there could be job displacement. I mean those are serious concerns so as a society you have to think about how do you reskill people, what are new social safety nets that you would need, those are super important conversations for society to have. But I think being too specific and saying that many jobs will, I just don't see the, we have made predictions like that for the last 20 years about technology and automation. It hasn't quite played out that way. But I do respect that, I think it's important to voice those concerns and debate them and I think that those are important conversations to have.
In two trials now, judges have said that Google is a monopoly in search and partly a monopoly in ads. How do you address the concern that your AI is built on an existing domination of search and ads and that this is just reinforcing original monopolies?
First of all, we disagree with the rulings and we are in the process of appealing these things. Look, if anything this moment has shown, I don't think there's anyone here who is using anything they don't want to use. You look at the success of ChatGPT or any other product. People literally have more choice than ever before. The reason people use Google is because they want to use it, right? And so I think we continue to innovate. I think choice is good for users. Competition is good for the world. So that's how I see it.
You've said the remedies proposed are too extreme. Would you ever voluntarily break yourself up, control your own destiny?
Look, I mean, those are, they seem compared to what the initial scope of the ruling was some of the proposed solutions are far overreaching. We'll see how it plays out. I look at the amount of, we spent over $50 billion in R&D last year, right? We are one of the top R&D investors in the world. We take such a lot. We didn't build things like Chrome and we've invested couple of decades into these. Waymo we've been building it over a decade. We've been doing that with quantum computing for over a decade. This amount of R&D, this amount of innovation I think makes sense to do and we take a long-term view so that's how I think about it.
I've heard you say a few times that you think of AI as an expansionary moment but so far it does seem to be favoring tech giants and well-funded startups. Access to GPUs and data centers and enormous amounts of capital. Like, isn't this really concentrating power in fewer hands? And is AI just another winner take all game?
Look, I think there are, well, I'm confident there is a company that's going to be created with AI just like when the internet happened. Many years after the internet happened, Google didn't exist. So there's no doubt to me that three years from now there'll be a company which will be dominant in this AI age which we don't even know the name of today. Yeah that's the only way things work in the future.
Right. So you have all this information about us and I mean you have our deepest darkest secrets. It's already hard to fix. Not me personally. Well yeah actually you do not you personally but your company does. It's already hard to trust big tech and now you're going to be using more of this information to integrate AI into more personalized experiences. Why should we trust you now more than ever before?
Well, we earned that trust by, we've been storing people's emails now for many, many years, but we've handled that content responsibly, right? I hope we protected from bad actors. We fight against unwarranted requests. So I think more than any other company I think we've taken, this is a responsibility people trust us in those moments and we are only evolving the products in the way people are telling us with their feedback. Look, the biggest thing people ask with Gemini and Gmail is why can't it write more like me. It's an ask which we are responding to.
Google's rolling out Gemini to kids. I mean, I've got enough on my plate parenting with more screen time and social media. Are our kids' best friends going to be chat bots?
Look, there's always going to be a sense of discomfort with new technology. I don't know, like when online dating first came, people would ask questions like, 'Are you really going to meet someone online?' So, people adapt to these things. Will people comfortably naturally interact with AI in their lives in the future? Yes. We are seeing it empirically in terms of how people are using them. I see people coming to Gemini asking questions like, at an aggregate we see questions like how should I prepare for this interview? They're talking as if it's a companion. So we do see evidence of that. But what about kids like Gemini for kids? With kids just like today when we design YouTube for kids we design it with a different set of guardrails and so for kids I think you would scope it down to those appropriate experiences.
Obviously you just unveiled Veo 3 which you were talking, I mean it is mind-blowing seeing these super super lifelike videos but it is also really scary. Is this the end of truth as we know it?
No, I think this is part of the role when you ask, I think this is part of the value proposition. This is why people will come to places like Google because they're trying to ascertain what's reality. And I do think it's, well we are going to evolve new norms around, for example with Veo we are watermarking videos they are built with SynthID so people can detect that they were generated with Veo. You can upload any video to Google and ask about this, any image to Google ask about this image and it would tell you if it was generated by Veo 3. We built a SynthID detector for researchers and journalists. So all these things are going to evolve in parallel. Down the line, we will need regulations maybe to say something which is a true deep fake just like your financial fraud. You would need new norms around things like that. So we have to evolve as new technology comes along.
I just wonder like are we going to have a shared sense of reality again? Like it's just like this is made with AI. It's insane.
I think so. I think humans as humanity we would value that shared sense of reality and so you would value human experiences even more in the future. Right? That's how I think about it.
YouTube is arguably the most influential media platform in the world now. I mean it is a political force. It's a cultural force. Our kids are learning there. All kids think they want to be creators. 75% of teenagers, I believe, say they're watching it every single day. I'm a mom. You're a dad. Like, I know you're in charge of the thing, but does it ever terrify you to have that much power?
Oh, I mean, I think that sense of power is an illusion. I think like when you're working in the tech industry, you've simultaneously started with the conversation with like are you about to go extinct and then you're ending the conversation with aren't you the most powerful thing in. Fair enough. So you got to choose in this continuum. Only one of that can be the truth.
Fair enough. I'm curious about your approach to the Trump administration. You were front and center at the inauguration. Google has rolled back some of its DEI policies. Did you compromise on something that you believe in?
Look, first of all, we are one of the leading American companies, global companies in this particular moment with the point of inflection around AI. I do think the next few years are critical from many aspects. So we are committed to engaging. We did that with the first Trump administration. We are committed to doing that. Look around the world we comply with laws and regulations in all the countries we operate in. Doesn't mean we agree with every aspect of everything right but as a company we do have our set of values and so we are committed to them as well. So I think for example as a company I think we are committed to making sure we develop AI in a way that protects the planet. That's an important value for us and you've seen us prioritize efforts around renewable energy. So we'll continue doing those things but look I think it's important that as a company we engage. There are many many people in the administration particularly around critical energy needs, critical infrastructure these are all important areas we want to work together on.
When you were on the circuit last year we spoke about the criticisms that Google and you personally have been too late to the AI game too late to get AI to market and I wonder how has your own leadership style evolved over the last couple of years specifically like have you changed at all to meet this moment of radical disruption?
Look, I feel like this is the main thing I did as a CEO setting up the company is to really be at the forefront of AI. When I look at the depth and breadth of what we are doing as a company across everything we are doing on multiple fronts I think we are incredibly well positioned but definitely through this moment it's a moment in which we realize it's a moment to accelerate at scale what we are doing and that involves stepping back and thinking about how you can make the company work faster, setting up Google DeepMind, bringing our best teams into one team. Scaling up our AI infrastructure. Our capex is 75 billion. That was $20 billion a few years ago. So, we're dramatically scaling up our infrastructure. So, you're undertaking these big bets. Waymo people are talking about it now, but 3 years ago, people were very pessimistic on it. I increased our investment in Waymo at that time. So look, you are making decisions not based on what people are currently saying at any given moment, but with a long-term view in mind.
Are you still getting involved in nitty-gritty product decisions or is that leaving that to Sergey?
Look, I'm fortunate to have Sergey. He's deeply working on the Gemini models, but I'm very very involved in various aspects of our product decisions. I think you have to do that in the tech space.
You've been CEO for 10 years now. However many years out it is. What kind of person do you think Google's future CEO should be?
Look, I think it's important to understand like the products we build tremendously impact society and the journey of technology is doing the hard work to make sure you're harnessing it in a way that it benefits people and that takes a lot of work and I think that'll be an important quality to have.
You're driving this massive technological change that's also bound to create major societal disruption. How do you personally wrestle with that? Like is there some philosopher or religion or deeper code that you turn to to help you answer some of these questions?
Okay. First of all, there are many of us doing this. I think ultimately it comes down to you don't need much more than having empathy for your fellow people on this journey and I think I am doing what I'm doing and so are many others in the industry because you get a chance to positively impact people with the work you do and that's the true north star at the end of the day.
What should kids be studying these days? Like should they still be learning how to code? Should we still be getting computer science degrees? Like I've got four of them. So I probably they're probably going to be talking to an AI asking this question. So my answer doesn't matter. Maybe.
Look, I think one of the things that's great about this moment is I think AI over time will allow us all to pursue our passions more, right? And I think that's the truly liberating aspect of a lot of this. You're giving pretty much everyone a powerful tool to express themselves in the way they want to. And so I wouldn't change anything of what you're studying. I think I would still ask encourage people to follow their passions and find something that's of interest to them. I think pretty much all disciplines which are valuable today there'll be a version of that valuable in the future.
What are the limits of AI? Like is it possible we don't reach AGI?
Oh, with the current, it's entirely possible. I mean, like we could be dealing with, look everything we can see. I feel very positive there's a lot of forward progress ahead with the paths we are on. Not only the set of ideas we are working on today, some of the newer ideas we are experimenting with. So, I'm very optimistic on seeing a lot of progress. But you know you've always had these technology curves where you may hit a temporary plateau. So are we currently on an absolute path to AGI? I don't think anyone can say for sure. The pace of progress is staggering and looking ahead I sense you will have that pace of progress but there could be limitations in the technology. The technology currently feels like you're seeing dramatic progress but then there are areas where oh this thing can't do this obvious thing. Waymo is doing very very well but remember you can teach a kid to drive in about 20 hours. So both the technology is amazing but we are quite far from a generalized technology as well.
We talked a little bit about your vibe coding backstage. Would you like to share? How often are you vibe coding and what are you working on?
I wish I could do more but I just been messing around be it either with Cursor or I coded with Replit trying to build a custom web page with all the sources of information I wanted in one place so I could type a location and get it all. Partially complete. So but it's exciting to see how casually you can do it now. And compared to the early days of coding things have come a long way. It feels so delightful to be a coder in this moment in time.
Even after that you still need all those software engineers are you sure?
Last question. We've got a new episode of the circuit out this week actually about Microsoft's 50th anniversary. Google's 27 years old. What is Google at 50?
What's Google at 50? Look, I hope we are nimble and innovating and in the technology industry, you have to earn your success every year. And so for me, it's more about building a culture that's really innovative at its core. Takes a long-term view and does deep technology work and translates that into products that impact billions of people.
All right. So, is there gonna, is a human going to be running Google or an AI?
Well, I do think whoever is running it will have an extraordinary AI companion to help.
All right. All right. Sundar Pichai everyone.
Please welcome to the stage Madhav Thakur, senior vice president and chief operating officer of agent force product at Salesforce and Sagar Ma, chief technology officer at OpenTable.
All right. Well, it's great to be here with all of you. So, thank you so much. Sagar, thank you for being great customers. Salesforce. A lot of customers, a lot of companies have this question about where do they get started on their agentic journey? What use case? What's the thing that I should go after? You guys have done a lot across your customer experiences, your employees. So, how did you get started? How did you think about where you should focus?
Yeah. So when we started really we were looking for efficiencies for our three audiences: restaurants, diners and our internal employees. AI agents allowed for natural language conversations in a much more fluid and authentic way. So we started by saying well where do we have those conversations across those three audiences? Customer service was a natural first step. Thank you Salesforce. We partnered with you to launch AI agents in our chat experiences. For us, a key metric was how many questions are we resolving without escalating to a human agent. And we were able to improve that pretty dramatically. But the potential is just so much higher as well, right? As we see how does the agent interact with our own internal tools and APIs, we know that over time we can just get better and better. For our restaurants actually, a common thing that they had to deal with was people calling the restaurant to make reservations. And it's funny because OpenTable when it was founded 26 years ago was founded with a simple premise of make a reservation online 24/7. You don't have to talk to anyone, right? But despite that, people still pick up the phone, call the restaurant. And so what we said was, okay, how can we partner with great voice AI companies to bring a solution to market allows a restaurant to answer the phone automatically, make a reservation, answer questions. Seeing great success so far. Millions of calls answered, hundreds of thousands of reservations. A lot of times the person calling doesn't even realize they're talking to an AI.
Yeah. What I love about that is I think picking an outcome, picking a clear KPI, this is what I want to orient my experience towards, I think is a much healthier approach to this versus just kind of trying to boil the ocean with a bunch of experiences. So that's really great. Now, as you've been on this journey, would love to hear about what are some of the challenges that you've seen? What are the things that you felt like you had to put more energy around? How did you get ready for it? So would love to hear what that implementation journey has looked like for you.
Yeah, I mean one of the, in addition to figuring out what's your metric, what are you targeting? I think understanding the data and is your data in a state where it can be consumed by this AI is a critical concern. So for internal efficiencies we use a tool called Glean. Enterprise search knowledge management and what it's based on is it says hey I'm going to take all this internal data and provide you an answer in a more intuitive way without having to read through all the documents. Previously it might have just shared the links now it's going to give you an answer. Obviously like anything it's only as good as the inputs. So ultimately you need to really think about how do I make sure if I'm creating a customer facing experience especially what are the data going into it and how do I evaluate the answers coming out? That can be testing, right? Okay, I have a set of questions that I know the answer to and I'm going to compare and do some evaluations. Also be things like monitoring for sentiment. So, is the person that is interacting with this AI frustrated? Can you detect that from the conversation trace or the voice? And how do you actually then incorporate that into your learnings and your feedback loop? Because if you're not doing that, then you're kind of have this thing out there and you just don't know how to evaluate is it doing the right thing or not.
Yeah. And I think, every step of that journey from let's pick the outcome, let's think about the configuration, let's think about what the data sources are all the way through deployment, implementation, monitoring, testing. It's like we're in this world now where we're kind of creating an entirely new development cycle for these agents as they're starting to experiment. I'd love to hear how are you managing like across your teams across these experiences particularly on are we getting the outcomes we want? How do we know how to improve things? How have you thought about that at OpenTable?
Yeah, I mean when we started it was definitely more top down of hey here's the initiatives we want to go after. At this point we've tried to democratize it to some extent where we said look we can as an executive team or as a leadership team figure out all the potential use cases you as employees know what you're spending your time on and we want you to set goals for your own teams and organizations on how you're going to use AI to make your processes your workflows more efficient. And that's actually been pretty interesting in that you can potentially take a lot of wrong turns but in this world experimentation is key and honestly it helps us bring the employees along for the journey. Like okay how are you going to use AI to make yourself more efficient is different than us saying here's a new tool please use it. So it's been pretty empowering for the organization to hear that message of actually part of your job as a leader or as a person on a team is to actually get better at AI and use AI in your job every day. If you're a recruiter and you're thinking about how do I more effectively source candidates or filter through applications. If you're a marketer saying how do I reach the right influencer on Instagram or Tik Tok so I can run a campaign. All of those things actually we start seeing bits and pieces bottom up being built out like, hey, I built a small agent workflow using the tools you gave us. Or the development budget you gave us and it's been actually pretty phenomenal and with the right controls and governance mechanisms. But different problems need different governance and controls. So like what does OpenTable do? We match diners to restaurants. I'm not building a self-driving car. I'm not making medical recommendations. I think we can take a little bit more risk as an organization and that's the thing I try to tell my teams is if this is a little bit wrong, but we can get feedback and learn and improve it, it's better than the alternative. So you just have to put that into context of what is the actual risk in what we're doing and in our products and can we take more risk? I say yes.
No, that's great. And I think you've kind of led to my last question here, which is when you think about the future of OpenTable as an organization, from Salesforce's vantage point, we believe customers are going to have lots of different kinds of agents, agents facing their customers, agents facing their employees, and then a whole class of agents that are just doing kind of work in the background, kind of at scale work. How do you think about your agentic workforce? How are you all planning for that? What does that future look like for you?
Yeah, and it's interesting because we're a hospitality company, so we bring people together, right? And that human touch is really important. That said, agents are here and they're here to stay. One thing I think about is how do I take my human workforce and
Help it be the people who are training and building out the digital workforce and really involving them in the journey. I have like seven or eight different coding co-pilots in trial right now. And you know for some people like, well that's a lot. Do you need all of those? It's like look I want to engage with my engineers. I want them to try and test different things and find out what works, what doesn't work because ultimately you know your most valuable employees are going to be the ones who learn how to use AI very effectively. And you know want to empower them to do so. That's great. Well, Sagar, thank you so much for spending some time with us. All right. All right. See you. Thank you all. Appreciate it.
The two most powerful words in the world that we know are what if. And today, thousands of organizations are saying what if with the power to act on those words like never before. What if you could empower every employee with a limitless digital workforce? One that listens, learns, and acts all day, every day. Well, this isn't some far-fetched science fiction fantasy anymore. No, it's happening right now with AI from Salesforce. It's called Agent Force. Agent Force turns your vision into reality. Think about it. A future where every student, client, citizen, and customer experiences the best service possible. And your people, well, now they're free to focus on the work that matters most. All you have to do is bring your dream. Imagine that. What if?
Please welcome to the stage Andrew Bosworth, chief technology officer and head of reality labs at Meta for a conversation with Bloomberg's Tom Giles.
Hi again everybody. Boz, thanks for being with us today. We're talking to a room full of CTOs and I want to start out by asking you about your role as CTO. You've been in place since 2022, I believe. In that short time, I want to hear, you know, we've all read about the changing role of the CTO and how they've taken on a whole lot more responsibilities. How has your role evolved in that very very short time? And then I have a follow-up.
