Why Wyndham’s Dimitris Manikis sees big growth ahead in Europe, India

I'm very well. I'm really pleased you pronounce my name better than I do. Well done.

Exactly. That's fantastic.

No, not really. Because think about it, if you look at the US, 80 to 90% are branded hotels. In Europe, I think it's about 25 to 30%. So there's a lot of opportunity for us to grow in Europe. The other thing that we're doing which is really exciting for us, not that Europe isn't, is the new territories, the new markets that we're opening as people are looking for new experiences, as people are looking for new things to explore. Look at the CIS, right? Five years ago we made a decision. We said, 'Okay, where's the next big thing?' Because if you think about it, everybody talks about where's the next big thing, right? Either in their personal lives or business life, where's the next big thing? And we said, okay, what about if we go to Georgia? What about if we go to Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan? And then we realized that this is where one of the next big things is. So today we're the biggest international brand in the country of Georgia. We are either leading position or among the three top international brands in places like Armenia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan. So these are places that when you go you realize what you've been missing. When I went to Tashkent for the first time I said, 'My goodness, what have I missed all these years?' I mean the people, the food, the experience, the archaeology, the history. And that is something that gives me the comfort to answer your question that no, it's not enough. The other thing that is happening, Terry, and you know that better than I do, is the way the world explodes and the way the world is actually changing travel habits. Tier two and tier three cities are now becoming more important. You know, yes, you talk about capital cities and metros, but now smaller cities in Denmark, in Sweden, in Norway, in Greece, smaller islands are becoming far more popular because why? Infrastructural development allows that to happen. So, is growth enough? The answer is no. You can still grow as long as you do it in a very sustainable manner and you do it in a way that actually respects local communities and respects the fact that you are actually invited in somebody's land to develop a new property or a new brand. That is something that we always have to keep in mind and that's what we've done in those new areas. We really respected the way the countries actually wanted to grow their tourism.

India is a very... but again, one size doesn't fit all. If you look at our trajectory in India, we have 100 hotels now in India in Eurasia. I think we have about 96 in India and another four in Bangladesh and so forth. We just opened our newest hotel in Nepal. India is twofold. We see the opportunity. We see the opportunity of growing in India. 80% domestic business, Terry, India to India. But the fastest growing middle class in the world, the fastest aviation order in the history of aviation, 800, 900 planes between IndiGo and Air India. An economic class or a middle class that economically... what is the first thing they want to explore? They cannot afford to buy an apartment. They want to explore the world. They want to go out. That population to us is the second biggest opportunity in India. So we grow in India for India. But at the same time we see the outbound of India as a huge opportunity for us. The other thing that is important for us is the inbound tourism to India. Think about this. Greece, 9 million people population, 34, 35 million tourists. India, 1.4 billion people, 10 million tourists. Think of the inbound opportunity for us. We have 120 million Wyndham Rewards members. A fraction of those that travel in our hotels in India. That opens up a completely new opportunity for us. That's why India for us, it's not just about growing within India. There are all sorts of other opportunities that we see in doing so. So, I'm very excited about India. I spend every second month I go to India. We have a great office, great talent. So yeah, I'm glad that you mentioned it because you know India for us, it's a huge opportunity for the future.

Look, it is tough. We have about 65 to 70 hotels in that region. As I said in the panel this morning, this is not... this is just a pause. That's the word I was looking for. It's just a pause. I'm not going to determine Wyndham's future in MENA or the UAE or Saudi or whatever of what is happening at the moment. I'm personally devastated because I'm a father of two. I'm personally devastated of what is happening, of course, from a humanitarian point of view. But equally, I look at my team and I get a lot of confidence in terms of this is not over. The destinations, they have a lot still to offer. It's just a pause for us. In cases like this, you have to mind for your own team members, your team members of the hotels. Make sure that you put the right measures in place to help the hotels through this difficult period. But we're not going to pack and go. I'm telling you categorically, we are not going to pack and go. We believe in the region. We believe in the perspective. We believe in the future. And one thing that I've learned through my 36 years of experience in this industry, when you fall, you fall fast. But when you rebound, you rebound equally fast. So when the rebound happens, we are going to be there because we're not going to leave.

That's a good compliment. Thank you. Yes. People between the two of us, we've got about 140 years.

Yes, possibly. Yeah, we can delete that. 80 years.

Look, owners always want more, right? That's the definition of an owner. They always want more. Why? What is the reason of getting into hospitality, right? If you look at a guy in India, right, he's made his money in X industry and then he buys a hotel. Why? Because he wants to leave something tangible from a real estate to his kids, legacy to the family and so forth. That guy wants to do it right and he wants the brand to deliver. That's our duty of care. I said in the panel this morning, we have a duty of care to deliver. Obviously, there are a number of different players in hospitality. You have the institutionals, you have the sovereign funds, family offices, but equally you have SMEs, the small medium business enterprises. And these are the biggest owners group of Wyndham because of our brands and because of the way our brands have been developing. Doing business with these individual owners is our number one priority and at the same time making the right thing, duty of care. Look at Turkey. In Turkey for example, we have 140 hotels. Out of those 140 hotels, I think we have 135 owners. So, every owner, one hotel. Every owner of one hotel. What does that guy want? A better yield for his asset, better performance, obviously. Recycling that, when he has to recycle that asset, that asset will have a residual value. So, that asset can provide more proceeds for his family. But above all, he's proud of what he's got. He's proud of that asset. We need to respect that and we need to provide and we need to do the best for that asset. Now interest rates are changing. You see the cost of running a hotel changing. You see the energy... yes, I get all that but at the same time I see technology helping a lot those owners to become more innovative. Food waste, mobile check-in, checkout. And this is where Wyndham advantage for us is a huge advantage. You know, we're digitalizing the guest journey. We're bringing a lot of technology to help those owners minimize their cost. We're introducing through our Wyndham Green program, the sustainable plan that we have at Wyndham, food waste, energy cost savings. All of that together makes it part of our duty of care to those owners. So, do we get everything right? No. Are we perfect? No. But we are actually learning a lot in the process and we are delivering far more.

They are in parallel. One size doesn't fit all, obviously. The good news about us is that we learned to play in both camps. We are equally comfortable with an institutional investor and a bank this morning and 5 minutes later talking to a guy who wants to develop a 65-room hotel in Bangalore or in Mumbai. That's the beauty of Wyndham. That's the beauty of what we do. And I don't take exclusivity. If you look at some of our friends in the industry, the other brands, they equally do the same. I think we've all adapted to a world where again one size doesn't fit all because the ownership scale of hospitality is changing. For me, what is important is to make sure that whatever you do, either being institutional, sovereign fund, family office or the guy who just opened up 65 rooms, you do equally good for him and his business. I'll give you an example. I was in Cappadocia about 3 months ago. We opened up 28 rooms, the cave hotel in Cappadocia, 28 rooms. I mean, somebody would say, 'Oh my god, Wyndham, you know, 9,000 hotels around the world. Why are they making so much fuss about 28 rooms in Cappadocia?' It was our first cave hotel that we opened in a unique location like Cappadocia.

Exactly. Exactly. Those 28 rooms are equally important to me as the 500 rooms in terms of what it stands for us in duty of care. We opened up our first Wyndham Grand in India, a magnificent property. You got to do the right thing for these guys. It's their money. It's their family. I met the whole family. It was an amazing occasion when we opened that hotel. You wake up in the morning and the first thing is how can I stay relevant? What is the best that me and my team can do to actually do the best for those owners? I think that's the ethos at Wyndham and one of our cultural acronyms that we use is 'Count on me.' That's what drives everything that we do. Count on your colleague but equally count on us to deliver the right value to those franchises.

Look, first of all, for Wyndham, sustainability is not a flash in the pan. It's not just another thing that we care about. It has never left our narrative. What I'm really disappointed, a bit disappointed, is that I go to a lot of conferences and AI seems to be taking now the center stage versus sustainability, which I always thought that sustainable hospitality is the future. For us at Wyndham, our Wyndham Green program, I mean we are the first brand I think in the economy scale that we made the level one as brand standards. So if you want to do business with us, at least the level one needs to be met. We're investing a lot of money on technology to help, as I said, food waste, energy, water. But more importantly, we work constantly with our franchises to make them understand that sustainability is not, as I said, one flash in the pan. And second, it's a long-term game. You cannot wake up one day and say, 'I just became a sustainable hotel.' I'll give you an example. I was talking about six months ago to the owner of our Ramada in Lucknow in India and we handed him level five certification which is the top certification in Wyndham Green. And I said, 'You know what, sir, I'm so gobsmacked. You know, you spend millions of dollars, you got level five, even bigger hotels in other locations haven't managed.' What was the drive? And he said, 'Look, I didn't do it for you. I didn't do it for your brand. I didn't even do it for me. I did it for my kids because they deserve a better day and a better tomorrow.' That to me is the main message. Hospitality, they tell us we are the most unsustainable industry in the world. We're the biggest employer in the world. I think we have to prove to the world and that's why keep on doing all of us that we do care about the planet. We do care about sustainability and we're now using AI and technology to help us in this journey. This is where I see AI and sustainability actually meeting. I don't want the AI conversation to replace the sustainability conversation but to complement. Technology can actually help us become far more sustainable in the next 5 to 10 years on all the things that I said from energy cost, food waste, water supply, everything. AI can really help us a lot. So it is very relevant, it is important and as I said is the best thing that we can do to give back more than we take.

We will. Absolutely. As always.