Interview with Susan Gerock

Okay everyone, welcome to the next episode of the PropTech Genius Show. And the local genius I have today is Susan... is it Gerock? Gerick? Oh man, I do this all the time. Don't feel bad, I like spend all this time chatting with you before the show and then I don't even get like, how do you pronounce your name? Like, did that...

Well, you should see my last name. I'm Amy PV. You should see what people do to me.

All right, well I'm so excited to have another multifamily woman in the house. This is going to be so awesome. And we're gonna talk through all sorts of different stuff, but you know, kind of like what you're seeing in innovation in real estate and what you're like, challenges you're facing and any insights you can see. It's great to have someone who's... because y'all have a REIT and you're doing large, you have large footprints and it's really, really cool. So this will be great, but I'm not going to introduce you. You can introduce yourself. So take it away, Susan.

Oh, I bet. I mean, you basically, you're leading the change because it's all technology-driven. You went from asset managing to now you're property managing and learning all the different systems that the property managers have to go through and try to muddle through in their day and the 16 to 20 logins they have to do to live their lives. And like, oh man, that's insane. That's a huge transformation. Do you still feel like you got it under your belt or you all still figuring it out? I mean, that was three years ago.

You were talking about just how much technology is out there and what's happening from an innovation standpoint. I tell everybody, I think multifamily is the place to be. There are so many people out there coming up with great solutions for our industry. And I feel like our industry for a long time really was a laggard and has honestly leapfrogged just about every other type of real estate at this point in the ways that we can use technology to connect with our potential residents, our current residents, to make things better for our community teams. There's just so much opportunity there that we can use to make things easier for everybody.

Because I remember back in the day, especially during COVID, it was like all these front-end solutions. The first thing around proptech was chasing was the money because it was easy to justify on these revenue... like Knock and all these other people that were helping you on the revenue lead generation side. But then what they were doing was they were setting up a false expectation because it was really, really cool to lease an apartment and then when you got into the apartment you had to go like walk in and hand a piece of paper for a work order or you had to call somebody that would not answer the phone because something broke. You know, I was like... and so now it's really like we have to make this seamless experience for them because you set that expectation up front. It's like, 'Hey, you can virtually tour, you can do this, you can do that, you can do all these great things.' And then when you get in there, you know, they expect the same things, right? It's really kind of interesting to see where it's going for sure.

Oh yeah, for sure. Like you can order something and it's there later that afternoon, like, and a drone dropped it off. Like, oh my God, you know, nobody had to knock on the door and then, you know, you're working from home and it's going like, no one does that because the drone just goes, 'Dink, here you go,' and leaves. It's great.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's really good. Yeah, Dallas has it, so I'm jealous of all my Dallas friends. I was... that's how I know that Austin doesn't have it yet, but Dallas has it. And yeah, and it's amazing. A couple hours and it's there. So it's like not even like, you know, you think about it in the shower and then later after you get done with... oh yeah, I really wanted that. And then you go outside and it's there and it's like amazing. And I have to leave my house and go to the store? It's just so cool.

And I think the biggest thing that... well, you can tell me what you're seeing, but you know, the experience part is we're reframing our stuff around the resident experience. I think a lot of that has to do with all the new visualization technologies that are coming out, right? And people... but sometimes the visualization tech... well, like, okay, CoStar bought Matterport, y'all, it happened. Like, if you didn't know, if you were under a rock, it happened. But I think even Matterport's technology is a little old and I think there's newer and newer technology coming out to where it's truly... because sometimes Matterport technology was really representative. You didn't get a good idea if you're doing a virtual tour of what it really like felt like or like, how could I put my furniture there? Will my couch fit? Will my TV fit? Like, is it... you know, where can I... like, how can I really live in this space, right? And I think there's better and better visualization technology coming out now. And I think that that lends itself to, you know, because I remember back in the day someone actually like rented an apartment for me and they never even looked at it. And I was like, 'Okay, they're going to show up here and they're not going to want it.' Like, I just told my people, I'm like, 'They've never seen it.' Yes, I know it's a six-month lease or whatever, but they didn't look. The neighborhood... this is like 2014. But they were a contract person and they didn't care. They just wanted a place to live. And I'm like, when... okay, you've seen pictures, yes, you saw pictures, but you didn't look at the neighborhood. This is probably... there's a good chance that they were not going to stay, right? I mean, it's like you don't have enough information. Yes, I know you're just trying to find a place to live, but now we can do all of that. They can see the neighborhood, they can see what it looks like, they can see how it feels, and they can see... you have good... they're very, very educated when they walk in the door. You know, and I think it's cool to see all that new technology coming out. Are y'all trying to look at... are y'all doing that already on the forefront of that?

Right. Yeah, you know, I... old property manager, I remember those negative reviews you would get and you'd be like, 'Going... you don't even live here! Like, shut your face! Like, seriously, nice try, nice try, good try.' Yeah, no, I'm not going to engage with you. They'd be like, 'This tenant doesn't live here.' You know, do you remember back in the days you'd have to have someone that... that's all their job was to look at the reviews and respond to the reviews. Now AI can do a lot of that stuff, which is so nice. You know, all the crazy things. Have you started looking at helping your tenants virtually stage the units yet? Have you done any of that?

Yeah, for sure. And I mean, that sort of capability, I think, is really, really nuts for that renter that is looking for that kind of option. I think anybody who goes through the moving experience more than once hates it. And like, no joke, is like, 'I'd rather just sell everything and start over.' Like, oh my gosh. And then not only that, I would just want it to be there when I show up. Like, I think that's why Airbnb became so popular because it was a unit you didn't have to think about it and you just showed up and you brought your clothes and your bathroom stuff and you moved in. I mean, it was fabulous, right? I'm just like, I'm so there. I've moved too many times and I'm like, oh, this is like so '80s. Like, oh my gosh, let's not do this anymore. Ah, but yes, no, I'm with you. Are you seeing... are you seeing that your tenants are staying longer in your leases? Like, I know back in... oh, back in the old days when we were multifamily, people like the average tenancy was maybe one to two years, but you know, you had your outlier that's been there for 20 years, right? Or whatever. But are people staying longer in the units overall? Have you seen for the most part?

Yeah, so yeah, no, for sure. You see the... I remember there was like a real... like 2021 especially, there was this... the apartment complex really had two communities in it. You had the Baby Boomers and the older folks and the really young families and young people and there was the missing middle. But it was these two generations that were living in the same community a lot of the times. That happened kind of all over the place. And it was interesting to see what some of the apartment communities would do to kind of, you know, help those generations, you know, collaborate so you didn't have them segregated out. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you would just have, you know, like, how can we help this community interact more? Because it's all about building community now. It's really kind of... is really kind of interesting. But I would say the other thing too is like everybody would wonder, 'Well, why would this one community be outperforming this other community?' And a lot of times it had to do with the staff that was at that community, right? All the time. Well, as we look at how we staff our properties, it's... do you look at how technology can kind of take the... not take the place of, but, you know, create that same kind of environment and not just be so dependent on one person that was just a phenomenal person that was your connector, everybody loved, and they all wanted to be there because, you know, because Margie was there and Margie was the manager and she took care of you and she did all these other great things. Well, you can't have Margie all the time, y'all. I mean, you just can't. So, are you looking at that? How do we use technology in a way to kind of create that feel without being so dependent on one person? Have you looked at that?

Yeah, I mean, there's some that... I mean, there's some that could be temperature-sensitive, right? Like, so warm or cold, right? Yes. You know, say somebody got flowers, you'd want to keep that cool. You know, or whatever. If somebody got, you know, whatever they got in the mail, maybe it was a HelloFresh package and it only lasts a little while. So even if... you know, I had that happen to me where someone stuck it by my front door and I didn't know it was coming. It was my HelloFresh day and it sat out in the sun for like freaking six hours, right? So I had to throw all that food out. But yeah, it's bad. So, you know, it could be even that or it's, you know, they get food deliveries, they get all these things, or even the warm side where they get, you know, 'My pizza just made it here and, you know, I'm not down there to get it.' So, yeah, I mean, it could be really, really... you know, who had that idea, by the way? I had to digress. I do this where I squirrel every once in a while. Elon Musk was at a conference back like, I don't know, 14 years ago and he was talking about how... and I hate to give credit to the guy because, you know, he's just Elon Musk, whatever. But he said that at a conference in San Francisco, he goes, 'In the future, there will be places by somebody's apartment where there'll be warm or cold storage. Like, the person delivers it in a box and they can pick warm or cold. And then that person would just, you know, notify them, the box would just notify them the delivery's arrived and then the person could just go get it and it'd be the same box.' And I was like, 'Okay.' But he went on to like make Tesla cars, but whatever. I mean, but I was just like, I'm like, 'Huh, interesting. Okay, all right, Elon, maybe you're a little smart. Maybe you are. Maybe we'll get there. I might give you credit every once in a while.' All right, okay. Yeah, I was like, I heard that like, I don't know, six years ago. I was like, 'Oh, that's crazy.' That's interesting. I had not heard that he had said anything. I know, and that... I was like, 'Weird, maybe insightful every once in a while.' But, um, all right, no, no, it's fine. You know, he's in Austin. I'm like, 'Dude, this is still my town. I've been here for 25 years. You did not take it over.' I'm just saying out loud. Sorry, it's my town.

So what kind of other things are you looking at? Like, what is the... the data, obviously, that's a... you know, which speaks to me because we're a data aggregator, so I love that. But what else are you like taking a look at as far as trying to get insights from? Just curious.

Wrong amenities and those... oh, let's not even talk about... I'm not going to talk about amenities. Like, oh my gosh. I mean, we... oh, just like, it just changes all the time. You know, you spend all this money to put in a Topgolf station and then nobody uses it because they didn't really want it, right? And so preferences change all the time. And ah, okay, anyway. But there's... I will tell you one of my favorite stories is a few years ago we had bought a community and it was, when I say it was an older community, it was probably built in the '80s. And back then racquetball was like hot. Like, I remember being in college and, you know, playing racquetball at college and it was a big deal. So we had racquetball courts at this community. Well, I mean, nobody used them. I mean, because I mean, you never hear of any... I mean, I guess people still play racquetball, but I never hear of anybody talking about... We, when we did a refresh of that community's clubhouse and other amenity spaces, we turned those racquetball courts into an indoor basketball court that gets used all the time. Whereas that was just dead, unused space that, you know, was not appealing, that really just showed the age of the community. Now we've turned it into an amenity that people really like and use. And I love it when we're able to do things like that and really stay with the times as what people are looking for. You know, having outdoor patios with televisions and things like that and good Wi-Fi, those are things that people enjoy and, you know, are going to be attractive to them. Especially, you know, if you live in a small apartment and you feel like your community as a whole needs to be like sort of part of your living room in a way, is making all of those common spaces spaces that people can really enjoy.

No, no, no, it was great. It was a great idea just to get them together. And then it ended up being there was like this one group of old ladies that sat at this one table and it became their table. Like, don't mess with their table. Like, it was... oh no, you never ever mess with the table.

I like that. Yeah, it was awesome for sure. And it was great to see. And you didn't even do anything. We just... they saw us moving the picnic tables and they saw us put out the coffee and we left. That was it. And then we announced that was Coffee Fridays and then that's all we did. And every day we put this out. That's very cool. Yeah, yeah, it was very cool. That's awesome. So, let's talk about AI a little bit. I know that there's some new innovations around... I like the one where, you know, it helps you... it understands your email and your phone calls to know like, is it a lead or not a lead. That's... so it's taking out those mundane tasks of somebody's day. Are you... how are you integrating AI in some of your things?

But isn't that like a trust issue and a fear issue? Isn't it? Like, do I trust that the AI is really handling this the way I want to handle it? And, 'Oh, is it going to take my job?' Oh, I'm sure.

Right. No one wants to sit through emails to figure out if there's a lead and then kick yourself because it happened, you got that email three days ago. Like, no one wants to do that. Like, come on, people. But then they'll say that, they'll say, 'Oh, no, no, I gotta do that.' And like, no, you don't, crazy person. You do not want to do that. I know you're scared, but you really, really, really don't want to do that.

Oh yeah, no, for sure. I can remember responding on Facebook Marketplace. That was back in the day, Facebook Marketplace was the hottest place to rent an apartment. And I was like, you know, 2:00 in the morning having to respond to people. I was like, 'Why can't there be something to do this for me? Like, why am I so attached to Facebook Marketplace trying to rent my units?' And it was the same question so often, 'Do you have a one-bedroom available?' It was like, I just wanted to have a clip to go respond. I mean, you know, because at the end of the day, yes, that's a precious lead. It's somebody just trying to find the information. So let's just let the chat or AI handle all of that stuff and you can go to sleep at 2:00 a.m. Like, you know, and they want it when they want it. I mean, they don't want it next day. They don't want... it's like, we're not fast food generation anymore. It's like hyperspeed fast food generation. I mean, we want it now. We want to know what it is and we want to move on with our lives. And we want the information now, now, now. We can't get it on your website or we can't get an answer, then we move on and find somebody else who can give us the information. It's like, that's how it is today, you know.

Oh, for sure. I mean, it's great to have the virtual tours, you know. I was like... we had... I worked in a community where it was contract workers and it's oil and refineries and they're working 24/7. So what, you know, what I did, I just trusted them that they weren't going to ruin the apartment and I said, 'Here's the code to the door. Come to the community. I know it's at night. Well, you'll get a good perspective because this is when you're coming home. You'll see how well lit it is. You'll see how safe it is. Here's the code to the door. Go look at the unit and then call me the next day or text me the next day and let me know if you like it or not.' Right? I mean, so nobody... I didn't have to have staff there. I just gave them the code to the door and I, you know... and we actually put codes on the door because keys are the bane of my existence. Oh my God, I hated keys. Ah, that's all we were was like a key shop. That's all we ended up being half the time, a damn key shop. I'm like, ugh, it was horrible. But yeah, but I mean, you have that. So true. Like, so now you have virtual touring and you have all these other great things and you don't have to have somebody be there to help leasing. I mean, do you think that the leasing agent is dead? Do you think through virtual touring and all these other great things you're just not going to need a leasing agent anymore?

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, you bet that leasing agent can then become... I don't know, I tried this at one community where it was like, you manage the whole experience from the tenant to the day they move in. So you're this person. So it's like the front-end person, you're the... and then from the day they move in, it hands off to this other person and they just become tenant relations. So you're marketing and prospecting them to here, once the lease is signed, you hand it over and then this person picks them up. And so I did that for... and that seemed to work really well because this person is managing the make-ready, they're managing the friend... the whole thing is, is the apartment ready? Can we lease it? We can. So you can add more tasks instead of just the leasing agent, right? So it's good, you know, you can flatten your organization out a little bit, but that's okay. It just gives me more skill sets for people to learn, different challenges for them to learn, you know, all those great things. So, the technology that you're looking at or that you're... you know, broad strokes, like, what cool things are you looking at as far as... is it connectivity? Is it more, you know, different ways to create a different experience? What are you looking at differently that you haven't implemented today? I'm just curious.

Yeah, it's like, the half the battle is just getting them to the unit, right? Like, I just want to follow something on my phone like Pokemon Go and I'm like this and I'm gonna walk around. Oh, I'm here, okay, great. You know, it's like, how do I get to my unit? I don't know where it is. It's so confusing.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. That's awesome. That's really, really cool. I think, yeah, that goes back to tenant experience and how do we make it easy from beginning to end, right? And all those great things. I also am so excited, I don't know what you think, but I think AI is so cool. Obviously it's cool, but my dad is 81 years old and he still works and he's still active. I think the coolest thing about AI is it's going to reconnect that generation. So now they can just talk to their phone going, 'Hey, I need to do this,' and it does it. And they don't have to know the codes, they don't have to type. Oh gosh, seeing my dad type is like horrible. But it connects that generation back because they can now use AI to do really cool things and all you do is talk to it, right? And say, 'Hey, I need to submit a work order,' or 'Hey, I need to do this,' or 'Hey, this,' or 'Hey, that.' And now they can feel connected again and they don't feel lost. They're like this, you know, the lost tribe of whatever because they're so disconnected from technology and the world almost. I mean, some can... my dad can text, it's great. I got him to text, right? But he still calls me every once in a while, 'Amy, how do I attach this to any...' like, it's tech support. 'How do I attach this to email?' But I think that's the... I think that is like one of the coolest things about AI is like, you know, and in your communities you'll have the ability to really, really reconnect that generation, which is, I think, awesome for sure. You know, I think it's cool. So, so good. Well, this has been such a fun conversation. I've had so much fun. This has been so good. Thank you so much for coming on my show. This has been my pleasure.

Well, you are, you are the genius for today. See, there you go, that's how it goes. Well, if somebody would like to get a hold of you and you're willing to let them get a hold of you, how would they do that?

Yeah, that's awesome. Well, great. So thank you so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate it.