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Andrew Bailey
Governor, Bank of England

Bank of England Interest-Rate Decision

📅 Nov 07, 2024 Bloomberg Television 86 MIN 14895 VIEWS 102 SEGMENTS · 23 SPEAKERS
Watch Bloomberg Television's live coverage of the Bank of England's interest-rate decision and press conference by Governor Andrew Bailey.

Questions asked in this interview

12
  1. 24:47Governor, is the message from this report that as a result of the budget, interest rates will stay higher for longer than they otherwise would have done?
  2. 28:32And are you happy that the market response post-budget has been orderly?
  3. 34:09In that light, could I ask you about the result of the US election and the potential for higher protectionism, trade barriers, tit-for-tat retaliation around the world?
  4. 36:29And given the UK exports more services as opposed to goods to countries like the US, are we more immune?
  5. 44:33Does that then mean that you have to respond by cutting rates faster?
  6. 46:43Thank you very much. Sorry, can you hear me?
  7. 48:30Do you think that you're being slightly over-optimistic that inflation won't rise as much, particularly on that point on food inflation, because your number is quite low and this is the UK's second biggest supermarket?
  8. 55:33So if those moves do continue to persist or grow in time, just how do you feel like that will affect the UK economy and your outlook for inflation?
  9. 57:44And if that's not a reasonable interpretation, can you improve it?
  10. 1:02:48Do you expect at the very least a more volatile and less predictable US administration to have to deal with?
  11. 1:04:37What kind of lessons can we learn from the past?
  12. 1:08:29With that backdrop, does it become a particularly unpredictable venture to make a big increase in employment taxes the centerpiece of the budget?
Host 0:00 ↗
You can also stream all of this. Our coverage is on the Bloomberg TV YouTube channel, so look for that as well. Let's talk about what we've got coming up. We're going to be taking the press conference shortly. We've also got a conversation, our conversation with Bank of England Governor Andrew Bailey. We're going to be playing that sound out at around 4 p.m. UK time, so look forward to that. Let's recap the decision and talk about what we've had. As anticipated, we have a second cut. We have another 25 basis points that has been delivered by the Bank of England. The language around this cut, though, sounds significantly more hawkish. The Bank of England had been anticipated to deliver this cut, therefore the market was really looking for guidance as to what happens next. And the budget recently delivered by the Chancellor, Rachel Reeves, seems to have changed things significantly in terms of the inflation outlook. We'll come on and analyze all of this in just a moment, but a 25 basis point cut which was delivered 8 to 1, Catherine Mann, Kathy Mann voting for a hold. Let's take a look at the market reaction to all of this. We've had a little bit of a round trip. Front end of the gilt curve, the UK 2-year, moving initially to higher yields and then we faded that a little bit, as you can see, from factoring in what's happening on the other side of the Atlantic too. But you've also seen a movement in the pound which has been a little bit more sticky this morning. So you can see that in the cable rate. If we move the board on, we have Sterling recouping some of the losses that we saw yesterday when we saw the Trump trade being firmly put on and the dollar bouncing as strongly as it did yesterday. We're at 1.2934. I've already talked about what is happening on the gilt curve and the 2-year up by around 61 basis points. Interesting in terms of kind of the growth outlook and the inflation outlook, but broadly I think equities are higher today and I think that probably is more what is being factored in to the UK story this morning. In terms of our analysis, we have a fantastic team lined up as ever. I'm joined here on set by Bloomberg Economics Chief UK Economist Dan Hanson. But let's go first of all to the Bank of England. Our UK correspondent Lizzie Burton is standing by. Lizzie, can I use the word hawkish?
Lizzie Burton 2:03 ↗
You can use the word cautious for sure. Look, this is a very different world to the last meeting, Guy. We've had that budget and we've had Donald Trump's victory. So the days of Andrew Bailey dangling hints about more aggressive policy to come seem a long time ago. But remember, he did have the cover of the Fed's 50 basis point cut as well then. Look, they have priced in the impact of the budget here, the biggest fiscal loosening in decades. They now see peak inflation of 2.8% by the third quarter of 2025. And now inflation may be below target, but it means inflation is going to go up again. They haven't been able to factor in the Donald Trump effect into these forecasts, nor have they used the post-budget yield curve. But I'm sure that this is going to come up in that press conference with Andrew Bailey.
Host 2:55 ↗
Let's talk about that inflation story. Can Andrew Bailey, the Governor of the Bank of England, repeat the mistake that many argue that this central bank and other central banks made a few years ago, and that was letting inflation out of the bag? Can he make that mistake again?
Lizzie Burton 3:13 ↗
Well, you would hope not, Guy, but there's going to be no one making that argument more loudly than the so-called dove here, Catherine Mann. She has described herself as being on the hawkish side of things. But let me refer you to some of her recent comments. She has said that it's easier to rectify the economy nosediving than failing to raise rates enough to stem inflation. She is focused on core inflation and she wants a, quote, sustained deceleration in services inflation. Now, that isn't going to be helped by some of the things announced in the budget: the rise in the minimum wage, the employer National Insurance contributions going up as well. And never mind the budget and Donald Trump, remember we already expected inflation to be going up towards the end of the year because of the energy price effect dropping out. So this is not a world where Andrew Bailey can afford for inflation to go up again, which is precisely why I would expect caution to be the watchword at this press conference. Note the guidance hasn't changed in this decision.
Host 4:15 ↗
And does that point us still towards the idea that we do see another cut this year? We'll wait, we'll watch, and we'll continue to see how the pricing evolves around that. Lizzie Burton outside the Bank of England, thank you very much indeed. So let's bring in Dan Hanson, Chief UK economist for Bloomberg Economics. Cautious or hawkish?
Dan Hanson 4:33 ↗
I'm going to go with hawkish. So that 2-year inflation forecast is up at 2.2%. So we thought once you took account of the budget measures you might be up, maybe 2 would be a topish estimate. So 2.2 is high. And remember there's always this question mark: do we focus on the 2-year, do we focus on the 3-year window for this? I tend to focus on the 2-year window when I look at what the bank's going to do and try and think about what's ahead. And it feels like, you know, 2.2 number, it's really hawkish. And looking just looking at the chart here, you've not got inflation coming back to target till late 2026, early 2027. It's a long time. And I think it's a really interesting question now. I mean, you said there, posed the question about December. I think that it's very unlikely.
Host 5:18 ↗
You think very, very unlikely?
Dan Hanson 5:19 ↗
I think it's very unlikely they'll cut rates on the back of this. I think it's very unlikely they'll cut rates in December. You've got inflation, at least on their forecast, reaccelerating through the course of next year. It's a very difficult backdrop to be cutting interest rates.
Host 5:30 ↗
What sort of cadence do we... okay, so when does the next cut come then?
Dan Hanson 5:34 ↗
I think they're going to stick on quarterly and keep to the, as they have been doing, the Monetary Policy Report meetings that they have. They have four of them a year, they have a press conference to accompany that. So the next one will be February. We think it won't be December. Coming back to the question you asked Lizzie, the bank cannot let inflation out of the bag again. This has got to be the primary risk that they now face and it is the biggest challenge that the MPC has to deal with, greater you could argue than the growth story.
Host 6:04 ↗
Is that where the focus is going to be?
Dan Hanson 6:06 ↗
Should be. I think it is. And the lesson from the past couple of years is that we've had these big supply shocks, these big lifts in energy prices, these big supply chain disruptions. Everyone thought they'd be transitory and they just weren't. They had, there were these second-round effects, they fed back into wages and that's made all of this a lot stickier than anyone would like it to have been. So I think when you're coming moving into 2025, and obviously we've got Trump as well, when you're faced with above-target inflation, inflation expectations that at least to my mind don't look particularly well anchored, you just really have to focus on that side of the mandate, the inflation side of the mandate. There is, I mean there isn't really a growth side of the mandate for the Bank of England. It's an inflation-targeting central bank, but the inflation story is the key driver. And if that means weak growth, then it sort of so be it from the Bank of England's perspective. It's getting inflation back to sustainably is the most important thing.
Host 7:00 ↗
Is this a stagflationary environment? Like what you've described there sounds like it could be. What's the challenge with it?
Dan Hanson 7:08 ↗
And the really difficult part of the stagflation, or if you want to talk about UK as being a stagflationary economy, is that trend growth is really, really weak. So you shouldn't expect growth to be more than sort of 0.2, 0.3, maybe 0.4. That's trend growth in the UK. And that sounds bad, but that's where we are in the UK. So it sounds weak, but much more than that is inflationary. So, you know, if we get those numbers, the Bank of England isn't going to be too concerned. But if we get sort of 0.5, 0.6, 0.7s, everything starts to shake a bit, everything, they get worried. And that's what happened in the first half of this year. We had strong growth numbers and it did worry them a little bit that the economy was going a lot stronger than they'd expected.
Host 7:48 ↗
Lizzie brought up the issue of folding in the Trump story into the UK. In some ways the concern in the rest of Europe is that you could see tariffs being applied. Much of Germany, Sweden, other economies in Europe are goods economies. We are a service economy and therefore potentially less exposed to that tariff narrative. How do I think about what Trump policy is going to mean to the UK economy and by extension what happens with monetary policy?
Dan Hanson 8:14 ↗
Yeah, I mean particularly with trade with the US, it's very services-heavy as well, so that specific point. But I think for me at least, it goes back to the answer to the previous question, is that I don't think the Bank of England in particular has the luxury of worrying about the growth side because it will be growth, possibly a bit growth-negative, but certainly inflationary. Of course, you've got to factor in the tax cuts as well. And if, you know, if that provides a boost to the US economy, the UK will import that in terms of a boost to global demand. So I think, you know, even if you have this world where slightly weaker growth, slightly stronger inflation, it continues to be that inflation story that is the most important to the Bank of England. And unlike in the period following the financial crisis where they looked through these spikes in inflation, oil price rises, pound drops, I think they'll be much more focused on the inflation side of the mandate rather than supporting the economy.
Host 9:05 ↗
It's always felt like the governor has taken cover from the Fed. He has used language, more dovish language from the Fed, the 50 basis point cut that we saw from the Fed as a reason to sound more dovish. What is, if the Fed is going to be in a difficult position, if the Fed is facing a Trump presidency, potentially higher inflation, significantly higher inflation, how does that change the communication maybe that we get from the Bank of England, from the governor?
Dan Hanson 9:33 ↗
Well, I think you've given a really good answer to your previous question there, that if this point about that Lizzie made about the aggressive cuts and the opening the door to that point, I think it was because what was going on around the world with the Fed going on, at the ECB. So if next year the Fed's in a world where it's not able to cut interest rates very quickly, the pressure on the bank goes immediately. So I think the Fed will lead the world and it continues to lead the world when it comes to how quickly interest rates will fall. And the fact that that pressure essentially will go away on the bank essentially to follow the Fed down quickly, I think that's one more reason to think that this narrative around caution will prevail for next year as well.
Host 10:13 ↗
Can I just, let's just go back to the granularity of the UK story, the labor market and what is happening in terms of wages. We've seen an increase in the minimum wage, you've got National Insurance contributions going high, presumably that's, there's some sort of pass-through effect there. You've got what appears to be an environment where actually employers are taking a reasonably benign view still to wage hikes. How strong is the wage picture here?
Dan Hanson 10:37 ↗
I mean, much stronger than say Europe and even the US, I would say. And actually the thing to remember here is that wage growth is fine if it's driven by productivity growth. That's fine. But it's not here. It's driven by an expectation, if you look at the decomposition, and the bank has done it again, it has been doing it recently, decomposing the drivers of wage growth, a lot of it is to do with inflation expectations. And that goes back to this point about second-round effects. So if you do get an inflationary shock, workers, as long as the labor market is tight, which it is at the moment, it's not as tight as it was, but it's still tight, workers have the ability to chase wages higher. And that's what is making inflation sticky. So I think the wage story is still a difficult one for the bank. It's come, that wage growth has come down a lot, don't get me wrong. But in the context of very weak productivity growth, you have to have wage growth maybe 2.5, 3% for it to be consistent with the inflation target. We're still at 5. Forward-looking indicators tell us we're going to get down to about 4. So we're just not, we're not there yet. So it is still essentially the thorn in the bank's side.
Host 11:44 ↗
So where do rates ultimately settle? Where's the bottom of the cycle?
Dan Hanson 11:47 ↗
Well, I think one of the takeaways from today is how that view might have changed at the bank based almost entirely on the budget. That you had inflation coming well below target in August on a very similar curve, it's certainly in terms of its terminal rate, about 3.5%. Now we've got inflation above target in two years on a terminal rate of 3.5%, slightly above 3.5%. So maybe the bank's beginning to come around to the idea that the neutral rate isn't sort of closer to 3, maybe it's actually a little bit 3.5, maybe even closer to 4. And I think that's one of the takeaways here is that that thought process I think at the bank is shifting. And Huw Pill has already flagged this risk that the neutral rate may well be higher and there isn't as much space to cut as everyone thinks.
Host 12:31 ↗
So how does that, just kind of walk us through the implications of that and how that actually factors into the way the economy actually functions. This is UK, this is UK economy that needs investment. We talked about what happens with productivity. The housing market data though still seems to be actually quite strong. In fact, housing data this morning revealing record highs. How does that higher for longer narrative stick?
Dan Hanson 12:54 ↗
Well, I think I'd flip, I'd actually flip the other way to say that because the housing market is, as you say, sort of held up and is recovering, investment has actually been really strong since the pandemic. Investment, business investment growth, the economy hasn't fallen off a cliff. It's been weak. I think they are all signals that do tell you that the UK economy probably can sustain a slightly higher interest rate than maybe we all thought going into this. You know, maybe the neutral rate is in that 3.5, 4% range rather than down at sort of 2.5, 3, which is, say, you look at the Fed's forecast, that's, we were closer to that level. So I think that's one of the interesting things that's come out of this. And we'll see how that thinking evolves and particularly what Bailey says in the press conference given the moves we've seen in the market as well.
Host 13:39 ↗
Right, Andrew Bailey, the Governor of the Bank of England, has walked into the room. Deputies are there. Katie Martin, the press officer that you see here, is introducing the panel to the group. There will be journalist questions obviously that will follow the opening statement that we get from the Governor of the Bank of England. Just to recap, the Governor of the Bank of England, the MPC has today at the Bank of England lowered rates by 25 basis points, an 8 to 1 vote split. Here is the Governor.
Andrew Bailey 14:05 ↗
Inflation has been close to our 2% target for more than half a year now, and today we have been able to cut bank rate again by 0.25 percentage points to 4.75%. The best and most sustainable contribution that monetary policy can make to growth and prosperity is to ensure low and stable inflation. I'll start my remarks on recent developments and the near-term outlook for inflation, then turn to our medium-term forecast and its determinant drivers, before concluding on today's monetary policy decision. Chart one, let's just come up, shows the evolution of 12-month consumer price inflation, that's the purple line, over the past year. It's fallen a long way to an average of 2% over the past five months and 1.7% in the latest data, which were for September. This is 0.4 percentage points below our August projection, which is shown in orange, and around one and a half percentage points below our projection from a year ago, which is the blue line. So the disinflationary progress process has progressed well and indeed faster than we expected. Both oil and gas prices have been significantly lower than market pricing suggested a year ago, but the downside news on inflation over the year has also reflected lower than expected food, core goods, and services price inflation. Since August, services inflation has fallen quite sharply to 4.9% in September, 0.6 percentage points below the projection we made in August. Looking further ahead to the next six months, which is shown in the shaded area of chart two that's just come up, we expect consumer price inflation to rise somewhat as the drag from lower energy bills wanes, that's the orange bars, and the contribution of services price inflation comes to dominate, that's the yellow bars. It's encouraging that we can now move forward from a lower starting point, but services price inflation remains elevated and recent downside news has tended to be driven by more volatile components such as airfares and accommodation. We still need to see services price inflation come down more broadly to keep headline consumer price inflation at the 2% target. Monetary policy has been guided by the need to squeeze remaining inflationary pressures out of the economy to achieve the 2% target sustainably. We have needed restrictive monetary policy to lean against domestic second-round effects from those global inflationary shocks. We now face the question of whether the remaining domestic inflationary pressure, for instance manifest in services price inflation and pay growth, will dissipate naturally now that the global shocks initially driving up inflation have unwound, or whether achieving this disinflation will require a period of economic slack in the UK economy. Alternatively, are we experiencing sustained changes in the structure of the economy with longer-lasting effects on inflationary pressures? These have become important cases in the MPC's deliberations. As policymakers, we can think that all three cases are of relevance, albeit to different degrees. Now, the forecast that we published in the Monetary Policy Report today is based on the second case. In the projection, second-round effects on domestic prices and wages are expected to take somewhat longer to unwind than they did to emerge, but a margin of slack emerging over the forecast period is sufficient to ensure that consumer price inflation falls back to the 2% target in the medium term. Now, this is shown in chart three. The blue line is the projection for consumer price inflation conditional on the 15-day average of the market-implied path for interest rates to the 29th of October, that's our usual convention. Headline inflation increases to around 2.75% by the second half of next year before falling back to around the 2% target over the medium term. Alongside the forecast, the committee has also considered the two alternative cases for how the persistence of inflationary pressures may evolve. In these cases, inflationary pressures may prove to be either less persistent or more persistent than in the projection. And this is set out in more detail in a box in the report. I'm now going to add some reflections on the key judgments that we've made on the outlook for inflation. Our November projection is conditioned on government policies as announced in the autumn budget. Chart four shows public sector net borrowing and how it is projected to change relative to the previous March projection by the Office for Budget Responsibility. In the autumn budget, the path for public sector net borrowing is higher than it was in March, but the chart on the left also shows that the difference is more pronounced in the first than in the future years. Public sector net borrowing is still projected to fall significantly over the forecast period. We provisionally expect the measures announced in the budget to boost the level of GDP by around three-quarters of a percent at their peak in a year's time. This reflects the stronger and relatively front-loaded paths for government consumption and investment, more than offsetting the impact on growth of higher taxes. Overall, fiscal policy is still expected to tighten over the forecast, but all else equal, the changes announced in the budget are expected to reduce the margin of spare capacity in the economy over the forecast period. The marginal effects on our inflation projections from the autumn budget is shown in chart five that's just come up. Combined measures push up on inflation by just under half a percentage point at their peak, that's the white line. The extended freeze on fuel duty pushes down on inflation over the next fiscal year, that's the orange bars, but as it is assumed to rise thereafter in line with announced government policy, fuel duty then pushes up on inflation from the second quarter of 2026. Other measures directly push up on inflation over the first year, that's the purple bars. Now, there are different ways in which the increase in employer National Insurance contributions could play out in the economy. It represents an increase in the cost of employment. There are at least four margins of adjustment. Firms could pass on higher costs to consumer prices, or firms could absorb the increase through lower margins or higher productivity. Firms could increase wages by less, or firms could respond by reducing employment. Now, let me be clear, public policy measures of this kind serve other objectives and it's not for us to opine one way or the other. What we must do is respond to any consequences for inflation in order to meet our 2% target over the medium term. Now, we will get information on how the consequences for inflation evolve over time. A gradual approach to removing monetary policy restraint will help us to observe how this plays out along with other risks to the inflation outlook. Developments in the UK labor market continue to be very important for assessing developments in inflationary pressures. There are mixed signals from the data. Wage growth remains strong relative to our models, perhaps reflecting some continuing real wage catch-up in a still relatively tight labor market. As chart six shows, annual growth in private sector regular pay, that's in blue on the left-hand side, has eased to 4.8% in the three months to August, down from a peak of just above 8% in mid-2023, and indeed in line with our expectations in August. A normalization in inflation expectations and easing in labor market tightness have supported that moderation in pay growth. Consistent with the slowing in the official measure, a bank staff indicator model of underlying pay growth has also declined in recent quarters, pointing to underlying wage growth of around 4.8%, that's the orange line. Along with some, but not all, outside surveys and measures seen on the right, this points to a gradual but progressive move down in wage growth towards levels consistent with the 2% inflation target. The bank's agents also suggest that wage settlements could continue to come down, perhaps to around 3 to 4% next year, compared with 6 to 6.5% in 2023. And I would add that this is the story that I've heard consistently when I've joined them recently on visits to businesses in different parts of the country. But two further observations should give us cause to reflect. First, one-year-ahead expectations for wage growth of firms in the bank's Decision Maker Panel seem to have stabilized at a higher level of around 4% in recent months. Second, the evidence, such as it is, points to the quantity side of the labor market remaining relatively tight while showing some loosening. Both of these observations could point to lingering persistence in wage pressures beyond what we're assuming in the projection. So let me conclude. There's been continued progress in disinflation, particularly as previous external shocks have abated. So at this meeting, the committee voted to reduce bank rate to 4.75%. Based on the evolving evidence, a gradual approach to removing policy restraint remains appropriate. Monetary policy will need to continue to remain restrictive for sufficiently long until the risks to inflation returning sustainably to the 2% target in the medium term have dissipated further. The committee continues to monitor closely the risks of inflation persistence and will decide the appropriate degree of monetary policy restrictiveness at each meeting. And with that, Claire, Dave, and I will be happy to take your questions.
Host 24:38 ↗
Thank you. Right, we'll start today with Larry for his last press conference, and then we'll go to Faisal.
Larry 24:47 ↗
Thank you. Governor, is the message from this report that as a result of the budget, interest rates will stay higher for longer than they otherwise would have done?
Andrew Bailey 24:59 ↗
Well, let me begin by echoing what Katie just said, if you don't mind, Larry, on a personal note. I know this is your last, I don't know how many of these you've done, but it must be a lot.
Larry 25:09 ↗
Too many.
Andrew Bailey 25:10 ↗
No, that can't be true. There's no such thing as too many of these. But look, Larry, I think we all want to join to answer the question together and A, thank you for all you've done for British economic journalism, and B, wish you all the best for the future. It's been a pleasure working with you.
Host 25:29 ↗
[Applause] And you are of course the first person ever to get applause in this press conference, because we will never get a... so all the best.
Andrew Bailey 25:41 ↗
So on the question about the budget, we've set out the picture. I would say, look, we've cut interest rates today, so I mean that of course is actually obviously significant in the context of the news. You'll see that the view we've reached, so the first thing I'll say, yes, there is some upward effect on inflation, but the path of inflation as we've set out, we think, you know, returns to the target in the horizon that we look at. And that is what has, you know, given us, in a sense, support for cutting rates today. But what I would say, and I just re-emphasize what I said earlier, is that there's obviously a lot that we will learn about the effects of the budget as they pass through. I think it's important that, you know, we have time to do that. We will have time to do that. And so that underlines again the message we've given today. We'll need to see how these effects pass through. You know, you saw I laid out quite carefully the channels through which the impact, for instance, of employer costs can work. They are obviously quite different channels. Actually, we can have combinations of those. We no doubt will have combinations of those channels. And we want to observe very closely how that works. Our agents are fully primed to go out and start asking about it and, you know, we'll want to get that information.
Claire Lombardelli 27:03 ↗
Can I add one thing? Just, I mean, the market curve always moves around. And as we flag in the minutes, I mean, in the run-up to the budget, it was being pushed up by US data developments. That's quite common. There has been movement since the budget, but we're seeing, you know, we're seeing quite a lot of movement in the curve at the moment given the events that are taking place either domestically or globally. I can add a bit about the detail if you like on the impact of the budget as we have seen it. You can see in our projections, we've been quite clear. So obviously, you know, the front-loaded fiscal loosening that the budget represents means we've got higher inflation by 0.3 percentage points at the end of next year, 0.4 the year after, 0.3 the one after that. That's quite similar to what the OBR have actually, they've got a slightly different profile because we, you know, have slightly different views on the multipliers. They're slightly more front-loaded. But, you know, you can see there the impact of the budget on inflation. And that is of course set in the much wider context of what we've seen on inflation in terms of actually the numbers coming down and coming down by more than we expected recently, but also on the inflationary pressures that we see and those also coming down, which explains basically the decision today.
Host 28:30 ↗
Give me a go to Faisal.
Faisal Islam 28:32 ↗
Yeah, hello, Faisal Islam, BBC News. Just to reiterate that point, should people at home, should households expect mortgage rates, for example, to be higher than they otherwise would be, even a bit, as a result of the budget? And are you happy that the market response post-budget has been orderly?
Andrew Bailey 28:51 ↗
Well, I think on mortgage rates, we've actually, you know, we've seen some reduction in mortgage rates since the August report. Obviously, we've cut rates today, so we'll see how that feeds through. But obviously, how it feeds through for most mortgages now depends on how the curve moves, because most mortgages obviously price off the swap curve because they're mostly fixed-rate mortgages. So I don't, you know, I don't think that it's sensible to conclude that the path of interest rates will be particularly different in that respect. And of course, we don't, let's be very clear, we don't set out an end path ourselves, because we respond to the news as we see it and form our views as we see it. So I would, you know, I would emphasize the points I made that the profile that we have of inflation starts lower, does go up, but, you know, let's be clear, when we talk about going up, I mean these are, you know, a different order of magnitude of numbers compared to what we've, you know, been talking about in press conferences here for recent years. And it's an altogether better magnitude in that sense. But then the key point is that it comes back down to target, you know, we think sustainably within the forecast period. So that's, just to reinforce Andrew's point.
Claire Lombardelli 30:09 ↗
I mean the curve, what we've seen, you know, the 2-year rate for a 75% LTV mortgage has come down by 78 basis points since May. So that's in chart 2.7 that shows you what's happened to all the key savings and borrowing products. And as Andrew is saying, that's been, you know, the reference rate for that important mortgage is the OIS rate, which has also come down over that period. But I mean, I think just on the second part of your question, Faisal, and just looking at market, you know, market movements over the last week or two. I mean, to start with, I think if you go back to the beginning of last week, I think the market was positioned long at the sort of shorter end of the Sterling curve, so it was positioned for interest rates. I think what you saw sort of in the latter part of last week was, yeah, some adjustment, there was some closing of those positions as the curve moved up. Not surprising, because those positions have stop-loss orders on them typically and those stop-loss orders can be quite highly correlated. I think that, yeah, that process happened. So we've had that process, but then of course what happened was, and this was really from Friday afternoon onwards, that the dominating, if you like, event was the US election, not anything going on in this country. And the curve obviously has been, curves have been moving around quite a lot over recent days. But I mean, it's quite clear that, you know, that's been the more dominant factor. And I think what we were picking up from market intelligence was that there was quite a reluctance in the market to take positions while the outcome of the US election wasn't known. So you did get, I think, these two things coinciding. I think there was some closing out of positions in Sterling into a market which was increasingly, certainly from Friday afternoon onwards, not really wanting to take positions given the uncertainty of the outcome of the US election. So I think that's the context. But I think now, look, you know, you look at the market today, it's a lot more, it's pretty settled today. And throughout the period, it could, because obviously you'd expect us to, you know, keep a very close eye on monitoring, you know, we've been seeing orderly market conditions.
Host 32:23 ↗
Right, let's go to Helia and then Sam, please.
Helia Ebrahimi 32:29 ↗
Helia Ebrahimi, Channel 4 News. Governor, what's your message to households today? You seem to be saying that you're cutting interest rates because inflation is coming down, in fact it's coming down faster than you expected, but you're also in the book saying that inflation isn't returning to target now until the middle of 2027, compared to the middle of 2026 which you thought before the budget. On balance, has the budget made your job harder?
Andrew Bailey 32:59 ↗
So the message I would, let's take two parts to the message. The first part, as you said quite rightly, is look, we've got good news. The disinflation process, as I showed in the first chart, you know, not only continues but actually has been faster than we expected. And not just faster over the last year, faster than since we were last here in August. And that's good and it's encouraging. There is greater uncertainty out there now. I would, you know, point to two things. I mean, first of all, there is greater global uncertainty, you know, without doubt. The second thing to say is that there are, of course, there are domestic uncertainties. And I, you know, I pointed to two of them in my remarks. One was just, we need to obviously see how the budget measures pass through in terms of their economic effects. And then I pointed again, as I have done in the past, obviously to the labor market and how the adjustment of the labor market continues. And those things obviously are related as well. So it's a point about uncertainty. And that's why, as you'll have observed, the word gradual once again appears in our language.
Sam Fleming 34:09 ↗
Thanks, Sam Fleming from the Financial Times. In the box, you talk about unexplained strength in import prices in the report and its importance for inflation. In that light, could I ask you about the result of the US election and the potential for higher protectionism, trade barriers, tit-for-tat retaliation around the world? How do you think about that, sure, in terms of upside and downside risks, especially in light of...
Andrew Bailey 34:36 ↗
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure Claire wants to come in, but let me make two points to start with. First of all, the point we were making on import prices is not really about, it's not at all about the US election. It's really based on an observation in the data that the relationship between world export prices and Sterling and UK Sterling import prices has not moved as we expected. In a sense, they've not really moved together. We've seen some divergence with stronger UK import prices than we would have expected based on world export prices. And frankly, we've adjusted our assumption to reflect the fact that we don't see any evidence of that really sort of coming to a conclusion. On the second point about the US election, can I just make this point first of all, you know, we always respond to announced policies, and that's true in the world, it's true in the UK, not to, you know, stories about what they might be. So we're not going to respond to anything. The second thing I'll make just to be very clear on this, you know, we work with all US administrations, more obviously on the financial stability side than the monetary policy side, because that's the nature of financial stability versus monetary policy. But we work with all administrations. We will look forward to working with the new US administration. We worked with the previous Trump administration, we work with the current administration, and that's our job. I mean, that's what we do. We do it without any, if you like, sort of, you know, presumptions, and we will do that constructively.
Claire Lombardelli 36:03 ↗
I've not much to add on the import box and the global export price, except to sort of reiterate your point that what we've done here has made a sort of changing our judgments reflecting what we're seeing in the data particularly. And, you know, the effect is not sort of insignificant on inflation further out.
Host 36:24 ↗
Can we go to Sue and then Joel, please.
Sue Chan 36:29 ↗
Hi, Sue Chan from the Telegraph. Just following on from Sam's question, I wouldn't dare ask you a question about policy, but just about the structure of the UK economy. How exposed is the UK economy to a potential global trade war? And given the UK exports more services as opposed to goods to countries like the US, are we more immune?
Andrew Bailey 36:49 ↗
Well, I mean, the UK is an open economy, let's, you know, that's one of the things we always say about the UK economy, and it's true, it's an open economy. Of course, many economies are open, so we're not unusual in that respect. So look, I think we will have to watch this very, very closely, as we will. We'll watch it very closely. As I said, I'm not going to make any, you know, any presumptions about what will happen, because I don't think that's either consistent with our policy remit or B, wise, frankly. I think let's see what happens. And, you know, there will, I'm sure, be a very open dialogue between both our government and the US administration. And I say, we, appropriate just to reiterate the point, you know, we work very closely with US administrations because it's obviously the right thing to do. And, you know, we will no doubt over time be able to get a better sense of A, what the policies are, and then B, to answer your question, how they, you know, might affect the UK economy. And of course, we'll do that. But I'm just not going to, I don't think it's useful or wise to enter into sort of speculation at the moment of what they might be, because we just don't know.
Joel Hills 37:59 ↗
Joel Hills from ITV News. I have a couple of questions. We have had a significant rise in UK interest rate expectations in the last few weeks. How much of that do you assess is down to domestic UK factors and how much of that is down to international factors, please? And you have just cut to 4.75%, a level you say is restrictive. You'll get a round of applause if you do answer this one. You are talking about gradually removing policy restriction. What level of interest rates is no longer restrictive? You must have that in mind when you make those statements.
Andrew Bailey 38:36 ↗
Well, that's of course the Ben Broadbent Memorial question. Yeah, but you're not, you're probably safe from getting the Ben Broadbent Memorial answer where he'll talk about John Williams, the Welsh economist. So we'll save you that one. Look, start with the interest rate points. Look, let me give you one, I think, quite interesting fact. And actually, I'll take it back to sort of a couple of days ago. If you look at movements along the interest rate curve from the beginning of October to a couple of days ago, and you compare the US curve with the UK curve, they basically moved by about the same amount. You know, particularly if you go out sort of a bit along the curve. So, you know, what I would say from that is there's clearly quite a lot of international, you know, input going on to that. And certainly when our staff do their decompositions of contributions to curve movements, which they do for us every time we meet, there's quite a substantial international element in that. On the neat way you tried to get to the r-star question, that we don't, you know, very, very deliberately we do not have a level of the equilibrium interest rate or the neutral interest rate, r-star, call it what you like, in mind, because it will be very dependent on factors. And, you know, there is a long-run concept which is much more related to sort of structural things in the economy, and then there's a shorter-run concept which is more cyclical and more immediately relevant, which, you know, will be influenced by a lot of things, some of which we've already talked about. So, you know, I'm always very careful in saying I don't expect interest rates to go back to the very low levels that they were at prior to obviously increasing rates, unless there was some completely unknown shock of the nature of the sort that caused them to go down in the first place, you know, back into the financial crisis and COVID. So that, but that obviously leaves quite a bit of territory in between for us to, you know, for that rate to settle in.
Joel Hills 40:48 ↗
I ask, it's hard to make sense of the statement that policy is restrictive if you won't say what you think the neutral rate is.

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Bailey, A. (2024, November 7). Bank of England Interest-Rate Decision [Interview transcript]. Bloomberg Television. CEOInterviews.AI. https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/938618/

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Andrew Bailey. "Bank of England Interest-Rate Decision." Bloomberg Television, 7 Nov. 2024. Transcript, CEOInterviews.AI, https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/938618/.

BibTeX
@misc{bailey2024_938618,
  author       = {Andrew Bailey},
  title        = {Bank of England Interest-Rate Decision},
  howpublished = {Interview transcript, Bloomberg Television. CEOInterviews.AI},
  year         = {2024},
  month        = {nov},
  url          = {https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/938618/},
  note         = {Speaker-attributed transcript with timestamps}
}