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Narrator0:00

The proposal has only been introduced and even faces a long legislative process before it can really become a law. And US President Donald Trump has drawn criticism after re-sharing a social media post that used derogatory language against immigrants from India and China. The post has surfaced as the US Supreme Court indicated it is likely to strike down his executive order aimed at ending automatic birthright citizenship. The re-shared message, originally written by a US radio host, attacked immigrants in strong terms while also arguing against current citizenship rules. This episode adds to tensions around immigration rhetoric as the court weighs the constitutional challenge.

And viewers, a geopolitical twist has entered football's biggest tournament with the senior US envoy suggesting that Italy replace Iran at the 2026 FIFA World Cup. The envoy, aligned with US President Donald Trump, confirmed to the Financial Times that he has raised the idea with both Trump and the FIFA president. The proposal is being seen less as a sporting decision and more as a diplomatic move aimed at repairing strained ties between Trump and Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni amid recent political frictions.

Delhi Capitals are set to receive a major boost with Mitchell Starc cleared by Cricket Australia to return for IPL 2026. The left-arm pacer has completed his rehabilitation after shoulder and elbow issues and is expected to link up with the DC squad shortly. Starc is targeting a return in Delhi's clash against Rajasthan Royals on May 1st, with Delhi currently placed fifth and struggling for power play breakthroughs. Starc's return could add much-needed sharpness to their bowling attack.

And with that, it's a wrap on this edition of Market Express. Stay tuned to NDTV Profit for more news and updates.

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Tamana3:22

Hi, I'm Tamana. Watch me on NDTV Profit, where I break down the day's biggest business stories. What happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

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Nidat Sha3:36

Hi, I'm Nidat Sha. Watch me on NDTV Profit for the most incisive market intelligence and meaningful corporate conversation.

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Alex Matthew3:46

And I'm Alex Matthew. Markets, mutual funds, insurance, personal finance. I help you cut through the noise and make smarter financial choices. And here's where you can watch us.

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Narrator4:07

He has been tracking markets for over a decade, spots the trends before they hit the screen. And he is now bringing his analysis to the show that the market watches. Watch Shah Dubet on Know Your Company. A show that puts the most traded stocks under the scanner. We dissect the company so that you, the investor, don't have to get the management to answer questions relevant to you. Watch Know Your Company weekdays at 11:30 a.m. to understand your next big bet.

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Narrator5:23

A lackluster handover continues to keep the markets in the red. Nifty ends in red for the second day in a row. Broader markets outperform the benchmarks today. The war premium is back in the barrel. Oil is ripping higher as diplomacy stalls and tankers stay frozen at the Strait of Hormuz. Brent surged past $103 a barrel as peace talks headlines fade fast with ships not moving. Rupee weakens against the dollar, closes at 94 rupees 11 paise against the dollar after it opens weaker at 94, down 20 paise from the previous day's close. As the Indian delegation wraps up three days of negotiations on the bilateral trade agreement with Washington, USTR representative Jamieson Greer says that India is a tough nut to crack. They have protected their agricultural markets for a very long time. Banks have flagged a cybersecurity threat from Anthropic's new AI model, Mythos. DFS secretary says the Finance Minister has met with the banks on Mythos concerns. Voting for state elections is underway in the states of West Bengal and Tamil Nadu today. 62.18% voter turnout recorded till 1:00 p.m. amid clashes in Bengal, while Tamil Nadu sees robust midday voter turnout at 56.8%. Indian cheese goes global by bagging four medals including super gold at a Brazil event. Prime Minister Narendra Modi applauds the historic milestone.

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Nisha Podar7:32

Hello and welcome to Profit 360. I'm Nisha Podar. Let's take you through all the top stories that you must know about. First, beginning with the Indian markets. Well, markets ended lower for the second straight day today and the Nifty closed below 24,200 levels, sliding over 0.8%. In fact, Trent and Shriram Finance were the top losers in trade today, both falling more than 3.5%. In fact, the broader markets did better than the main indices. Let's take it across to my colleague Parth who's getting us the entire market action. Parth, tell us.

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Parth8:12

So, Nifty has ended in red for the second day in a row. The market closed below 24,200, down almost 0.8% today. Trent and Shriram Finance were the top losers in Nifty, both of which were down almost 3.5%. The broader markets have outperformed the benchmark indices today with Nifty Midcap 150 snapping its 2-day gaining streak and ending almost 0.5% in red. Union Bank of India was the top loser in Nifty Midcap 150, down over 7% after the company posted its Q4 results today. The Nifty Small Cap 250 also has snapped its 2-day gaining streak, ending almost 0.6% in red with IIFL Finance being the top loser, down by over 10% today. Now let's have a look at the sectors. The sectoral indices ended on a mixed note with Nifty Pharma being the top gainer, up by over 2%. In Nifty Pharma, Dr. Reddy's and Piramal Pharma were the top gainers, both of which were up by over 6.5%. Nifty Auto was the top losing sector, down by over 2%, led by Ashok Leyland and TVS Motor, both of which were down by almost 4% today. Also, let's have a look at the sectoral trend. Nifty Pharma has ended in green for the second day in a row, while indices like Nifty PSU Bank and Nifty Oil and Gas have snapped their 4-day gaining streak. Also, Nifty Realty, Nifty Metal, and Nifty FMCG have snapped their two-day gaining streak, while indices like Nifty Auto, Nifty IT, Nifty Bank, and Nifty Financial Services have ended in red for the second day in a row.

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Nisha Podar9:49

All right, thanks Parth for rounding up the market action for today. Now given this uncertainty in the markets, Matt Auton from Raymond James Investment Management pointed at one space that is really relatively insulated from the geopolitical turmoil. He said that the growth in artificial intelligence seems to be shielded not just in India but globally as well. Listen in.

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Matt Auton10:18

A lot of the strength that we're seeing not just in the US but globally. Take a look at Korea. SK Hynix numbers coming out this morning, incredibly strong. That is the tale of two cities of the world right now because a lot of this AI buildout and the capex is insulated from the geopolitical conflict that we have going around the world. And if anything, the need for behind-the-meter power for additional power supply sources, that's accelerated because of what's happening in the Middle East.

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Nisha Podar10:49

All right. Oil prices rose nearly 2% as Iran and the US make no visible progress in peace negotiations. As a result, the Strait of Hormuz, which is vital for global energy supply, continues to be disrupted. In fact, Brent ran past the $100 mark today and is trading near $103 per barrel, while US WTI crude is hovering close to $95 per barrel. Back home, the rupee weakened by 0.33% today to close at 94 rupees 11 paise against the US dollar. All right, so that was the roundup on the market, but the suspense over US-Iran talks really continues. Donald Trump says dialogue is possible on Friday. However, Islamabad prepares for round two of the negotiations. The US says that there is no time pressure on ending the war with Iran, while the White House says that President Donald Trump has not set a new deadline for an extended ceasefire. Meanwhile, Hormuz continues to be on fire. In fact, Iran media released video of IRGC gunboats seizing one of the ships that was fired upon on Wednesday. Iran's chief negotiator, Mohammad Bagheri Ghalibaf, really says that it is not possible to reopen the Strait of Hormuz because of flagrant breaches of the ceasefire by the US and also Israel. Meanwhile, my colleague Pradeep Dutta is in Israel and he spoke to people about the current situation and gets us this ground report.

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Pradeep Dutta12:36

I'm trying to get the reaction from the people here in Israel, trying to find out what they have to say because a negotiation between Iran and Washington has failed because Iran has made it clear that they will not be sitting on the talking table. They've almost rejected this negotiation offer from the Pakistan side. Let me speak to the people here. How do you see this thing that Iran has rejected this offer? They're saying that they will not be coming and sitting on the talking table.

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Israeli Citizen13:00

We are very disappointed. We know that Iran is against Israel all the time. They are doing things against Israel. We don't understand why they are doing it and we think they will not change their color. We are very, very disappointed.

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Pradeep Dutta13:18

So what do you really want the United States of America to do at this stage because they are keeping conditions that you should open a naval blockade?

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Israeli Citizen13:26

First of all, they damaged the economic situation. And second, Iran needs to collapse and destroy all the things that can be against Israel, all the atomic and all the things that we don't know. Because right now, the Iranian people are building missiles and everything in order to attack and destroy Israel. Why? Nobody understands. We like and we love the Iranian people. The Iranian people are good people. They want peace. 40 years ago, they were the best of our country. Why not now?

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Pradeep Dutta14:07

So the people here feel that they are here for peace. They want negotiation. They want diplomacy and dialogue to be given a chance. But if Iran is not keen for the dialogue, they feel that there is another option left for them, and that is kinetic warfare. They should unleash that kind of warfare and teach Iran a lesson. Once again, they should start bombing that country if they don't mind the risk.

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Nisha Podar14:28

All right, India's rice exporters are feeling the heat of the Middle East war. In fact, rice exports fell 7.5% in 2025-26, hit by the disruptions from the West Asia conflict. The shipments to key Middle East markets led by Iran really slowed due to payment delays and also shipping issues, pulling March exports down over 15%. Now, before we talk to Rajiv Satya, he's the Joint Managing Director and CFO at Chaman Lal Satya Exporters and he is representing the exporters of rice. Let's take it across to Mahima to understand this particular scenario. Mahima.

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Mahima15:13

You know, we've seen a dip of around 7.5% in terms of rice exports in 2025-26 so far, and overall exports have seen this dip on account of contraction in shipments to major destinations. This is as per the Ministry of Commerce data that we've gotten. The exports in March itself have seen a decline of around 15.3% and shipments to Middle East regions including Iran, UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Oman have been impacted. Iran is one of the biggest basmati rice export destinations for India. I think the more concerning part is that overall shipments are witnessing growing stress in terms of order flow. Payment cycles are getting impacted, and ship schedules due to prevailing instability are also getting hampered. Plus, on top of that, importers are now saying and have conveyed their inability to honor existing commitments and remit payments to India. So it's not just about overall exports going down, but payments are also getting stuck to a major extent. Now, this as compared to how things fared in 2024 and 2025. Overall, in 2024 and 2025, we exported around 20.1 million tons of rice and produced around 150 million tons of rice, and overall average yields had also improved to 2.72 tons per hectare since the cycle began, from 2014-15 to almost 3.2 tons per hectare in 2024-25. So overall, I think yields are also going to get impacted, plus exports being impacted will overall see a dampening and impact in a lot of these rice exporter names. So that's the overall perspective of what's happening in the rice space.

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Nisha Podar17:00

All right, thanks Mahima for giving us all the details. And onto the fresh developments really coming in. Banks have flagged fresh cybersecurity concerns linked to Anthropic's new AI model, Mythos. Now bankers say that Mythos could really access internal bank data. Let's take it across to my colleague Push who is getting us all the details on what this really means and this concern for our financial system. Tell us, Push, what are you gathering?

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Push17:28

That's right, Nisha. In fact, bankers are spooked from the fact that Mythos can find out vulnerabilities that have been in the system, that tech processes have had for a lot of years. Mythos recently highlighted one bug which was around 27 years old. So bankers feel their systems, the gaps in their systems, whether they'll be able to fulfill that in record time once Mythos figures out where the bug is. Essentially, Mythos is very capable of finding out vulnerabilities in a tech system. So banks today, Finance Minister Nirmala Sitharaman met with top bank CEOs and discussed this concern. Banks say that this model may access their internal data, internal operational structures. It can find any vulnerabilities. And in fact, we also hear that the RBI is talking with global regulators including the Bank of England, and we understand the Bank of Japan is likely to hold a meeting over the risk to discuss risk associated with this new Anthropic AI model called Mythos. Banks, as you are aware, Nisha, are a particularly sensitive entity when it comes to data. They have data of depositors. They have APIs which are linked to fintech. Banks have a lot of sensitive data which is important to their organizational structure and also from a reporting standpoint. So broadly, bankers are discussing this with the RBI and the government, and there is a process that is going on to find out what can be done to prevent these risks.

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Nisha Podar19:10

All right, stay on with us, Push. In fact, this is a very concerning matter and a big one at that. We'll have more details coming in. Meanwhile, remember DFS Secretary M. Nagaraju also has confirmed that the Finance Minister has met with the banks on Mythos threat concerns. He also said that Mythos is a threat and an opportunity for the fintech ecosystem. Listen in.

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M. Nagaraju19:40

Everybody is talking about it. That is also both a threat as well as an opportunity for the fintech industry to experiment what actually can be done to address this. We have three strategic outcomes for Vision 2030. We are all clear that growth alone will not be enough for the country. What we need is growth that is deeply financed, widely accessible, and sustainably supported.

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Nisha Podar20:09

All right. It's a threat and an opportunity. Rishab Bhatnagar, my colleague, joins in with more on that. Rishab, what's the word coming in from the actions, measures, and at least allaying concerns of the banking sector from the government?

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Rishab Bhatnagar20:27

Absolutely. What we're picking up from government sources is that a meeting was chaired by the Finance Minister today. This was, of course, in relation to the various concerns that banks have put forth to the regulator as well as the government. What we're picking up from the government is that they have taken and addressed these issues. What they are trying to do now is sort of understand what exactly is the scope of all of these things. This is a very, very new development even for the ecosystem. Even global regulators haven't really assessed the entire impact of the situation. So the Indian government alongside the banks has taken this up on an urgent basis as well. What we can also expect is some sort of a statement to come out later in the day from the Finance Minister's office with regards to what was discussed in the meeting. What we also can gather is that general cybersecurity and artificial intelligence themes were also discussed at the meeting. There were also officials from the Ministry of Electronics and IT present at the meeting, apart from CERT-In, which is essentially the government's cybersecurity arm. So they were also present in the meeting. What we're picking up is that, of course, the DFS Secretary was also a part of this meeting. So a high-level meeting was called today. The most details will be out hopefully by evening today. We'll see more and more clarity come in on what exactly was discussed, but that's what we have on this entire Anthropic AI Mythos issue so far.

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Nisha Podar22:01

All right. This is a matter which is developing. Thank you so much, Rishab and Push, for getting us both sides of the details on this very important developing story. Thank you. All right, let's shift focus to the earnings momentum. And yes, stocks are being rewarded as well as punished based on their performance in the quarterly results. So shares of Tech Mahindra fell over 2% and extended yesterday's losses after the company reported an in-line to marginally better Q4 result. While the company's revenues at 15,000-odd crore rupees were higher than what the analysts were really expecting, profit is where they missed the market estimates, and therefore the stock was down. We in fact interviewed Mohit Joshi, who's the CEO and MD of Tech Mahindra, on the AI-related opportunities. Listen in.

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Mohit Joshi22:56

The way we see it, there is a very significant modernization opportunity. There's a very significant opportunity to deploy agentic AI to our clients. And also, a lot of the R&D work we've been doing, for instance, building sovereign large language models, building a telco reasoning model, all of these we feel will result in significant revenue opportunities down the line. In the short term, though, there is a concern that some of the productivity asks that are being driven by the client will result in some revenue compression for the industry as a whole.

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Nisha Podar23:29

All right. From the consumption space, shares of Havells India also fell more than 6% after the company's Q4 revenues came in below estimates. In fact, brokerages also cut their target price on this particular counter. We spoke to Anil Rai Gupta, who's the Chairman and Managing Director of Havells India. Listen in to the part where he talks about protecting their cables and wires business.

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Anil Rai Gupta23:56

We have continued to invest in the capex cycle in the last couple of years, which has given us good capacity for our industrial cables business, which is underground cables. There we saw fast growth in the entire year, in the fourth quarter last year. In fact, the stronger segment, which is the largest segment amongst cables and wires, which is the domestic wires business, did see revenue flattening in the fourth quarter because of the fact that there were raw material price disruptions and destocking of the channel during the first half of the quarter, and also a high base over last year. So I think overall it's a mixed performance, and we look forward to the coming year.

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Nisha Podar24:40

All right, on to our next earnings candidate. Well, SBI Life Insurance, those shares of the company also dropped over 3% today due to a mixed Q4 performance by the company. While profit slightly dipped by 1%, the premium income saw some strong growth coming in. My colleague Shashwat caught up with Amita Jingran, who's the MD and CEO of SBI Life Insurance, to really talk about the Q4 earnings. Listen in to the part of that particular conversation.

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Amita Jingran25:15

For the current financial year, that is FY27, we are maintaining the guidance of around 14% growth on the IRP basis and also on the APE basis. There was a little softness in the fourth quarter of the year for the entire industry, in fact for the entire financial segment, you can say.

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Shashwat25:35

And why was this?

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Amita Jingran25:36

We think that this is the result of the geopolitical events that are happening. A lot of turmoil is going on all over the world, and the financial markets all over the world are affected by these events. We are also a part of that only.

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Nisha Podar25:55

All right. So, the Middle East war creeping into the show of the earnings as well, as stated by SBI Life's management as well. All right. The government's notification on sustainable aviation fuel is being seen as a key step in building a clear regulatory framework for the sector, giving a strong push to India's clean energy transition. Now industry players believe that this could really accelerate the development of a domestic SAF ecosystem and also position India as a global leader in this particular space. Let's listen into our exclusive conversation coming in with Rohit Kumar, who's the SAF Association chief. Listen in.

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Rohit Kumar26:42

Definitely, this is a very important moment for SAF in the country. Actually, SAF is India's leading industry body working for aviation decarbonization. I think this is a great moment when the notification has come, and it really defines a policy moment for development and deployment of SAF in the country. We understand that the present regulatory framework is definitely going to give a good boost for the new energy transition in the country. I think this is very important in the current geopolitical issues, and India has the capability to build this ecosystem by itself. I think I'm very happy as an industry body, and we are taking it ahead with the government.

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Nisha Podar27:17

Sir, we are also seeing that as far as the SAF targets for India are concerned, there is a target of 1% by 2027, and this will go up a notch between 2 to 5% by 2030. So how ready is the industry, and how does India really want to move ahead with SAF?

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Rohit Kumar27:38

Before that, I'm very happy to mention that India is going to lead the SAF transition to the world, and we have more than 10% of global biomass available with us. So we are ready with all pathways and all technology approaches because we can produce ethanol to SAF, we can produce UCO to SAF, we can produce carbon capture to SAF. I think we are ready with that. And in a recent development, Indian Oil is already setting up a SAF plant in Panipat. I understand that this green fuel ecosystem in the country is going to play a very important role, and I think SAF is going to really take a lead and it's going to establish India's leadership to the world.

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Nisha Podar28:16

All right. India-US trade talks remain in focus with a key three-day round of negotiations now concluding in Washington DC. The US Trade Representative, Jamieson Greer, has described India as a tough nut to crack, highlighting long-standing protection of agricultural markets, even as both sides look to find common ground on specific sectors. Let's listen in to what Greer's remarks look like.

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Jamieson Greer28:47

India is a tough nut to crack. You know, they've protected their agricultural markets for a very long time. As part of this deal, they're going to want to protect a lot of that still. There are things though where I think we can find mutual agreement. You know, DDGS is a good example of this.

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Nisha Podar29:03

Polling momentum really remains strong with voter turnout at 70% in the state of Tamil Nadu and 78.7% in the state of West Bengal. In fact, as of 3:00 p.m., as voting really gets underway in the two politically crucial states of West Bengal as well as Tamil Nadu. Well, these elections, remember, are significant not just regionally but for the broader national political landscape, shaping alliances, equations, and leadership narratives. And also, center-state dynamics are at play in West Bengal. Remember, over 3.6 crore voters across 152 constituencies are casting their ballot in the first phase, and key battlegrounds include Nandigram and parts of North Bengal. Now, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has really welcomed the strong turnout, calling it a sign of potential mandate for a change, while also noting that poll-related violence has remained at historically low levels. Meanwhile, down south in Tamil Nadu, the contest remains a three-cornered fight between the DMK-led alliance, the AIADMK-BJP combine, and also actor Vijay's political entry adding a fresh dimension to the politics of Tamil Nadu. Let's now go across to our reporters on the ground, Saurabh Gupta in West Bengal and Deepak Bupana in Tamil Nadu, for the latest. Saurabh, first, you go. The Prime Minister has already flagged the high turnout as a sign of change. Is that sentiment really visible on the ground, and give us a mood check on what's really taking place.

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Saurabh Gupta30:48

Well, you know, there has been a high turnout, and this is something that obviously the Prime Minister has flagged. But also, one must remember that Bengal, and West Bengal especially, has historically always recorded high turnout. This time, of course, while there is a BJP campaign that's been on in full swing and the BJP expecting victory, the Trinamool says that the swing and, of course, the voting result will be totally in its favor. However, one of the things to note also is the fact that as the C-SAT has happened, there is a baseline that's lower. So with a lower base, you're going to have a higher turnout. Remember, lots of people are still under the adjudication process and they are going to tribunals etc. to get their names included in the voters list. There's also been a massive deletion of voters who've died or voters who shifted elsewhere, who were all part of the voter count earlier. But in spite of that, there has to be a high turnout. So this time, one expects the turnout to be even higher. But the Prime Minister, of course, is billing it as a sign of change. The Trinamool is saying no, that's not going to happen. The voting pattern is totally in its favor. However, there is no denying that indeed there is a very high voter turnout, and the Prime Minister is billing it as a sign of change, and there are multiple reasons for the high voter turnout.

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Nisha Podar32:07

All right. Saurabh, high voter turnout could be music to the ears of the BJP-led alliance there. Thank you so much for joining in. With that, it's a wrap on this edition of Profit 360. Keep it with NDTV Profit. Thank you so much for tuning in.

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Tamana Anamar33:29

Hi, I'm Tamana Anamar. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories. What happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

N

Ned Sha33:43

Hi, I'm Ned Sha. Watch me on NDTV Profit for the most incisive market intelligence and meaningful corporate conversation.

A

Alex Matthew33:53

And I'm Alex Matthew. Markets, mutual funds, insurance, personal finance. I help you cut through the noise and make smarter financial choices. And here's where you can watch us.

N

Narrator34:14

He has been tracking markets for over a decade, spots the trends before they hit the screen, and he is now bringing his analysis to the show that the market watches. Watch Shah Dubet on Know Your Company. A show that puts the most traded stocks under the scanner. We dissect the company so that you, the investor, don't have to get the management to answer questions relevant to you. Watch Know Your Company weekdays at 11:30 a.m. to understand your next big bet.

New year, new power panel. India Market Open, now in its boldest lineup. This is where the trends get tested and stocks get conviction.

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Speaker 135:16

I'll recommend a buy call on a stock only when fully convinced on the stock with a tickle buy.

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Speaker 235:22

And when the street wants the levels, he brings the chart. Charts speak the truth and I deliver the levels with no frills.

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Narrator35:32

Parag Thakkar and Kush Bohra are now part of the morning crew with Mana, Niraj, and Alex. Same show, sharper voices, every morning on India Market Open. Your favorite market show just got better.

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Mahima Arajani36:22

Hello and welcome to KYC, that is Know Your Company. I'm Mahima Arajani, and let's try to figure out what company we are going to decode today for you, our viewers, as well as people who invest in a lot of stocks. But you know, let's try to guess the company that we're going to talk about. The first one, let's try to pull up this slide and see. Leadership in the Mangal Sutra segment. This company basically holds the leadership in terms of the B2B segment in the Mangal Sutra segment. Listed on September 17th, 2025, so fairly recent listing that we are talking about. The stock is up 29% from its IPO price, and that's not been the case for a lot of IPOs that have been recently listed in the past six odd months. Now moving into gold bridal jewelry, which is a high-margin business and also a high-value business, which is going to give them leverage going forward, considering the manufacturing capacity also that it has. So that's the guess the company part. Let's try to understand which is the company that we are exactly talking about. We are talking about Shingar House of Mangal Sutra. With regards to this company, what it does and what exactly is the manufacturing capacity and what is the exact flow of manufacturing for this one. Basically, it specializes in design, production, and distribution of Mangal Sutra, both in terms of B2B and it also gives it to retailers. So 15 distinct collections and more than 10,000 active SKUs is what the company has in terms of only Mangal Sutras right now. In terms of prominent customers, big names are there: Titan, Reliance Retail, Nova, Joy Jewelry, Lucas, Malabar Gold. All of these are the clients for Shingar House. The company also serves 34 corporate clients, 189 wholesalers, and 81 retailers. So it's a complete B2B business that it does in Mangal Sutras. The company is focusing now on high-value added jewelry segment going forward. In terms of where the capacity goes, it has around 2,500 kg per annum capacity and also has an integrated manufacturing facility. So completely in-house manufacturing is what it has, and that too an integrated one. In terms of the key news coming in, I think an astute investor, S. Aiyar, has acquired five lakh shares on 22nd of April. So this was a big news coming in, that's why we saw movement in the stock price as well. The company is now diversifying into gold bridal jewelry, like I mentioned earlier as well. It's a high-value business and high-margin business as well. In terms of where the other news aspect is concerned, the company is also shifting its manufacturing capacity from Lower Parel to Kandy Valley, so that's also another news to keep in focus and keep in mind. Now, in terms of how the industry is faring, overall India's wholesale gold jewelry, as per data from various sources, says the segment is expected to reach around 48,900 crore by calendar year 2029, and this suggests a CAGR growth of anywhere between 9 to 10%. And this is the CAGR growth we are talking about from calendar year 2024 to 2029. So that's the CAGR growth at which the entire industry is growing, but the company is growing at a much faster pace. Now, strong HNI interest is also there in the counter, and in terms of volumes as well, we've seen good growth coming in as to where the share price action is concerned. A strong distribution network is helping it in cross-selling also going forward when it diversifies into high-value and high-margin business of bridal jewelry. The other reason as to why it is in a sweet spot is because larger order wins are expected from corporate clients going forward once it diversifies, plus its existing business as well. The company is targeting the unorganized sector and underserved tier 2 to tier 4 markets. So I think the focus more right now is from tier 2 to tier 4 markets, and that will give the company overall leverage going forward in terms of its distribution and its selling opportunities as well. Now let's try to take a look at what are the parameters that we're going to talk about in this segment. The first one that we are going to pick up is the income statement, followed by balance sheet, then cash flow, and then return ratios. Then we are also going to talk about how the shareholding pattern is for the company, followed by street cred as to how the counter has performed so far since listing, valuation metrics, as well as what's the outlook going forward. Then we'll also be speaking to the management of the company to understand what the outlook of the company looks like. But let's start talking about the first parameter, the income statement. In fact, we'll be speaking to Virat Teshwar, who's the ED and CEO of Shingar House of Mangal Sutra, going forward. But let's start talking about the parameters, the income statement first. Now, if you take a look at the last three-year CAGR growth in terms of where revenues stand, it's been a strong growth of 21%. EBITDA growing at almost 45% three-year CAGR, and net profit has seen a growth of 46% CAGR. Now, a lot of this growth in the past 2 years has also come in with rising gold prices. Because of gold prices going up, we've seen a lot of value growth coming in. But we'll try to understand from the management as to how volume growth has also fared. Now, because we've seen strong CAGR growth in the past 3 years, we've given it a thumbs up. In the past 9 months also, the company has done fairly well. Revenue growth of 41% year-on-year basis. For EBITDA growth, it's even stronger as compared to how its 3-year CAGR has been, like a 65% growth, and net profit growth at 76%, much better as compared to what it's done in the past 3 years. In terms of margins, I think this is where the pain point is, because margins have been reducing for them. But them foraying into other segments might improve their margins going forward. So that's with regards to where the income statement goes. But let's try to take a look at the balance sheet aspect as well, as to how the balance sheet has been in the past five odd years. In terms of where the balance sheet goes overall, from a perspective of share capital perspective, we've seen that it got listed recently in September 2025. In terms of reserves, they've been growing in the past 3 years from 128 crore to almost an increase of 500 crore. So they've been reserving whatever profits they're making. Even in terms of total equity, that aspect has also gone up because of reserves going up. Borrowings have also slightly increased. So we try and understand from the management as to why these borrowings have gone up, and this is largely on account of both short-term and long-term. Short-term largely on account of working capital, but we'll try to understand what the debt repayment plans are looking like. Cash and bank balance is an area of concern. We'll try to ask the management if there is any fundraising on the cards considering the expansion that they're planning, because overall cash balance has remained in that range of just 3 to 4 crores. So that's with regards to where the balance sheet goes. Now let's try to pull up the cash flow statement as well. This is the third metric that we are going to talk about. In terms of cash flow statement, cash flow from operations has turned negative in FY25 and has also stayed negative in September 2025, and considering 9 months at a negative 7%, the year will also close at that negative number as well. But overall PAT has seen a good increase, but cash flow to PAT ratio has been on a negative footing. So I think that is an area of concern. We'll also speak to management about it. But overall, even net cash flows has been on a negative footing, and that's okay. We've given it a thumbs down. Now let's try to pull up the return ratios aspect and see how they have been. A healthy return ratio has been largely maintained in that range of 20 to 24%. So your RoCE has been stable and has been at that 24% mark in the last 3 to 4 odd years. So I think there's no area of concern here, and we've simply given it a thumbs up when it comes to the return ratios. Now let's try to see the street cred of this company, as to how the company has done when it comes to the share performance since its listing and how the entire performance has been like. But before we talk about that, let's try to take a look at the shareholding pattern as well. There is skin in the game when it comes to the promoters, because promoters have been constantly holding 75% in this counter, and it doesn't look like they're going to reduce their entire holding. But FII holding, there is FII interest coming in from 4% just during listing, it's gone up to 6% in just a matter of two quarters. DIIs, of course, have been selling, and FIIs have been buying that. So from 4% in September 2025, DII holding has come down to around 2%. Public holding remains fairly stable around that 17 to 20% mark. As of March 2026, it stood at 17%. So that's with regards to how shareholding goes, but there's skin in the game, and that is why we've given a thumbs up. Let's try to pull up the street cred. Like I was talking about, from the life high, of course, it's down 19%, and this is considering the way markets have moved in the last couple of months. But overall, from its IPO price, it's up 29%. And from 2026 low, it's up 26%. So there is gain coming in from 2026 low as well, and that shows high investor interest in this counter. Just to point out here that IPOs in the recent past 6 to 8 months have not done very well. As compared to that, at least this IPO has seen gains of 29% versus its issue price. So that's with regards to where street cred goes. Let's try to pull up the valuation. This is an interesting aspect because overall, if you take a look at the valuations of all these jewelers, Titan is trading at an 80 times P/E right now, Thangamayil at 49 times, Kalyan Jewellers at 36 times, and this as compared to Shingar just trading at 21 times. Valuations as compared to where peers are concerned is much more attractive for something like a Shingar House of Mangal Sutra. And considering that it's growing at a very fast pace at a very good CAGR, the valuations right now are justified at where they stand. Let's try to then look at how the outlook of the company looks like in the coming years and near future as well. They are diversifying into gold bridal jewelry, and that's certainly a thumbs up because, like I said, it's a high-value, high-margin business which is certainly going to benefit the margins for the company. Plus, it's targeting the unorganized sector that is tier 2 to tier 4, where there's a lot of unorganized sector playing its part in different ways. I think organizing it is going to definitely benefit the company. Third-party facilitators are onboarded to drive scale from here on, and that is something that is going to augur growth for the company going forward as well. Lastly, in terms of where the outlook stands in terms of expanding, the company is planning to expand to five cities and has identified more for further rollout as well. So the company is not just planning to diversify into segments, but also planning to expand in terms of where geographies are concerned. Plus, it's also building a strong presence going forward when it comes to their overall presence. This, of course, is with regards to where the outlook goes. Let's try to now see how the cumulative ratings look like of all the eight parameters that we talked about. The first one being income statement. We've given a thumbs up. Good CAGR growth all in terms of revenue, EBITDA, as well as net profit. Margins, of course, still a concern. But overall, balance sheet is a thumbs down because cash position is at a very thin lining, plus there are borrowings which are growing. So we talked to management about that. Cash flow, we've seen negative cash flow in FY25. Operating cash flow negative in FY25 as was as of September as well, and that's why we've given it a thumbs down. Return ratio is very positive, very healthy near that 22 to 24% mark. So given it a thumbs up. Shareholding also a thumbs up because there's skin in the game, 75% held by promoters, plus FII seeing an increase in stake. Street cred is slightly a thumbs down because overall, if you take a look at the picture as to how it's off from the high point, we've seen some pressure coming in the stock. Valuation's definitely a thumbs up, much better as compared to where the peers go, and that's why we've given it thumbs up. And outlook most certainly a positive one because the company is planning to expand into segments as well as geographies coming in. So the total rating that we've given this counter is five out of eight. So that's the overall rating with regards to how Shingar House of Mangal Sutra goes. But you know, let's try to get in the management as well. We are now joined by the management. Sir, my first question to you with regards to what we talked about. We've been talking about how significant growth you've seen in the past three odd years. Just wanted to first understand, now that you're trying to foray into this bridal jewelry that we talked about, it's a high-value business plus high-margin business as well, if I'm not wrong. What is the foray looking like? What are the plans to grow the segment as a whole?

V

Virat Teshwar49:54

Hi, good morning. So, you the point about the bridal jewelry. So as you know, we have been in the Mangal Sutra segment for over decades. And for us to grow being a Mangal Sutra, it is the most key product in a bridal jewelry. So for us to grow in this segment, bridal jewelry was a must-do point because the customers we have, currently we are having more than a thousand customers who are constantly and consistently working with us, and we are growing with them. And these customers are not only just unorganized players, but giants and organized players as well. So in the whole entire process of growing, even these customers are growing big, and we want to grow with them. So Mangal Sutra is a key product for us, but to grow multifold times, we have to increase our product categories. So bridal category was a big demand from our customers to us, as they are seeing good rise in the bridal jewelry category. So we have already started developing and selling bridal jewelry in the market, and we are in tie-ups with all the big jewelers, the corporates, the single chain stores, and single stores. So bridal jewelry, if we talk, it's more than 40 to 45% of the total jewelry market. So that is a big jump we are looking at. And with the existing customers, we are hoping and we are positive that it will give us a very good boost in terms of growth and in terms of profit returns as well.

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Mahima Arajani51:40

Okay. Virat, with regards to where your overall margins are concerned, you know they've been slowly and steadily growing. But wanted to get a sense, considering that the gold prices have shot up a lot, with the overall condition in the West Asia conflict as well, where do you see your margins going? Plus, you're entering the bridal jewelry space. What are the margins going to look like going forward? Is there going to be a steady pace of growth going forward as well, or they're going to be in that range of 6 to 7%?

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Virat Teshwar52:14

So when we talk about bridal jewelry, of course it is a high profit-fetching category. The other reason also to get into bridal jewelry is that the industry is growing, the category is growing. And with the new manufacturing setup we have just recently started, we are looking at producing much more high-value products which can fetch us more profit. And with the new setup, we have not only increased the production capacity, but we have also increased the quality of the product, the range of the product, and the high range of the product, which can fetch us better margins and also give our customers a better quality and a top-notch product.

M

Mahima Arajani52:54

Virat, with regards to where your capacity utilizations go, they've dropped a tad bit in FY25 as compared to where they were in FY24, if I'm not wrong. What are the capacity utilizations looking like right now, and going forward in FY27, what is the expectation in terms of how they will fare?

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Virat Teshwar53:15

So when we talk about the capacity utilization, I think it was nearly around 70% in the previous years. And with the new setup coming in, we have almost doubled our capacity, not only just that, but at the same time we have increased another category with a new manufacturing setup. So we are looking at bigger volumes, bigger sales, and majority utilization of the capacity. And with the existing customers, the name of the customers you see and the growth they are showing, I'm really positive that the growth ratio is going to be maintained and it is going to increase in the future as well.

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Mahima Arajani54:00

Got it. Virat, with regards to your borrowings, the long-term borrowings have reduced to quite an extent, right? They're almost negligible right now. But in terms of short-term borrowings, I reckon that this is on account of your working capital requirements. But this is compared to where your cash and net cash flow position stands at right now and cash balance basically where it stands right now. Do you think that going forward, to maybe fund your working capital requirements or expansion plans, you might need to raise some funds?

I

Interviewer54:24

Maybe fund your expansion, you'll be needing funds? So are you looking for any fund raise going forward?

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Virat Teshwar54:31

So currently we are going phase by phase. We are not going to rush into borrowings right now. But as you know, the working capital we require increases with the increase in gold rate. The more the rate increases, the more capital we require. So currently, looking at the existing working capital, I feel that we are more than ready for the market and for the current season and ongoing business processes as well. In future, I'm not too sure about increasing borrowings, but yes, to increase revenue and profits in the existing working capital, that has been a key motto for us right now.

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Interviewer55:16

Okay. And what is the store expansion plans looking like going forward in terms of the growth plans going forward in FY27?

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Virat Teshwar55:24

As you know, in the last financial year, we added two new stores, one in Delhi, one in Pune, and Bombay, which is a key main corporate store. So currently, we are in the process of increasing revenue and scaling up in the existing stores only. Probably once we achieve that, hopefully this year or next financial year, we are planning further stores coming up. But at the same time, not only expansion through stores, but also through a facilitators module, which means that by not opening stores, we can make our reach in that particular city or state using that module. We are aggressively going towards that, and if we see potential in another city, we may plan and go ahead for other cities and more stores.

I

Interviewer56:24

Raj, with regards to where your growth is concerned, how much of it is coming from value growth versus volume growth? Because prices of gold have really gone up. So what's the kind of value volume growth that you've seen in FY26 and going forward, what is the kind of growth that you're penciling in for FY27?

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Virat Teshwar56:45

Definitely the focus has been volume growth for us, because value growth is definitely there and we'll be seeing it in the flowing numbers over the years with the gold rate increasing. But the main focus for us is volume growth. So we are dedicatedly, our entire team, the sales team, which we have been increasing, the entire management team, the manufacturing team, to make it more organized and more productive, we are working towards how to increase the volume growth. The bridal category which we have introduced lately will be a key point for us in volume growth, and we are expecting good volume from this new category.

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Interviewer57:36

Vir, with regards to where gold prices go, considering the volatility in gold prices, what is the hedging strategy in place right now? How much hedging do you do and how do you cover yourself against that volatility?

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Virat Teshwar57:50

Yes, we have always been following a hedging policy and we are going to maintain it at the same place because in such a volatile market, we want to focus more on production and sales rather than focusing on any other aspect. So the hedging policy is maintained. Currently, we are having a 40% hedging policy and that is going to be maintained and we will keep up to it.

I

Interviewer58:14

Vira, as per recent developments, there was gold imports that were stuck because of a new DGFT coming in. What's the progress that's happened there? Now, do gold imports have an easy free flow or is gold still stuck there and any impact on your business because of that?

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Virat Teshwar58:33

Being in jewelry since a very long time, several decades, the channel we follow for material procuring, we don't rely on only one source. We have several sources from where we procure our gold bullion. So we never saw any big challenge coming in terms of procuring raw material or gold. Because of the system we follow, because of the multiple channels we follow for our supply, it has never been a challenge for us.

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Interviewer59:04

Okay. And with regards to the West Asia conflict, any exposure that you have in the Middle East? Has that been impacted at all?

V

Virat Teshwar59:14

In the last one month, we have seen the Middle East being disturbed. But Shingar, 98% of our revenue comes only from India, so we are mainly dependent on India. Only 2% comes from abroad. So of course there has been certain disturbance, but at the same time, we have seen a seasonal growth in the same period. Right now, there's been an Ashada season recently, so that has been a very key season and a good season. I saw a good flow of customers coming in. So maybe it's all covered up because my focus has always been, Shingar's focus has always been the domestic market. But of course, we are focusing on the overseas market as well. Not only UAE, currently we are supplying to the US, UK, New Zealand, and several other countries. So the exposure is so vast that the volume compensation comes from all over the country and from outside.

I

Interviewer1:00:22

And Vir, what is the ratio like right now in terms of your exports versus your domestic sales, and how will that dynamics change going forward?

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Virat Teshwar1:00:31

Like I mentioned, 98% comes from the domestic market. But now with the new category coming in, it will be a very key point and a strong point for us to step into the overseas market, as we will now be able to go to our customers with a vast range, not just Mangal Sutra but other categories as well. That will 100% help us penetrate better in the market and get more volumes and sales from our customers. So the new category will not only increase in India but also from overseas.

I

Interviewer1:01:10

Okay VJ, thank you so much for helping us answer all those questions, and that too so candidly, and of course taking the time and speaking with us at NDTV Profit.

V

Virat Teshwar1:01:19

All right.

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Narrator1:01:20

So viewers, you heard the management. That was Vira Tareshwar, the MD and CEO of Shingar House of Mangal Sutra. But with that, we are completely out of time on this edition of KYC. But do stay tuned for more news and updates on the other side.

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Tamana1:03:14

Hi, I'm Tamana. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories. What happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

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Nidat Sha1:03:28

Hi, I'm Nidat Sha. Watch me on NDTV Profit for the most incisive market intelligence and meaningful corporate conversation.

A

Alex Matthew1:03:38

And I'm Alex Matthew. Markets, mutual funds, insurance, personal finance. I help you cut through the noise and make smarter financial choices. And here's where you can watch us.

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Narrator1:03:59

He has been tracking markets for over a decade, spots the trends before they hit the screen. And he is now bringing his analysis to the show that the market watches. Watch Shah Dubet on Know Your Company. A show that puts the most traded stocks under the scanner. We dissect the company so that you, the investor, don't have to get the management to answer questions relevant to you. Watch Know Your Company weekdays at 11:30 a.m. to understand your next big bet.

New year, new power panel, India Market Open, now in its boldest lineup. This is where the trends get tested and stocks get conviction. I'll recommend a buy call on a stock only when I'm fully convinced on the stock.

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Speaker 11:05:05

With the tables are being buy

N

Narrator1:05:07

And when the street wants the levels, he brings the chart. Charts speak the truth and I

A

Alex Matthew1:05:21

Hi, we're talking about your money matters on NDTV Profit and my name is Alex Matthew. Buy when everyone else is fearful and sell when everyone else is greedy. This is something that I'm paraphrasing of course, but it's a famous quote and it has to do with sentiment in the equity markets. It is something that has proven to be useful and has proven to be successful more often than not over the past many years. But how do you do this? And is there an opportunity to look at a mutual fund strategy that does this for you without you having to do it? That's exactly what we're talking about today. It's called either the value strategy or the contra strategy. Of course, these are used interchangeably. It may not necessarily be the most accurate way to describe it though. We've got Rushab Desai, founder of Rupy with Rushab Investment joining in to talk about this. Rushab, thanks so much for taking the time. Let me first ask you about this value contra strategy that is available in mutual funds. How does it work? What is the thesis?

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Rushab Desai1:06:29

Hi Alex, thanks so much for having me on the show. Alex, there is a very thin line difference between value and contra strategies. See, what does a contra strategy do? A contra strategy basically invests in underperforming sectors, stocks, and segments in the capital markets. Now if a particular segment is not doing well and if that particular segment has corrected by say 10, 15, 20%, then a contrarian investor or the fund manager would be more brave and take aggressive calls in that corrective pocket. Now on the other side, what does a value strategy do? It basically invests in undervalued sectors or stocks or segments in the capital markets. Not necessarily that that particular pocket would have corrected sharply, but either the stocks or the sectors or that particular pocket in the capital markets would have been undervalued. It has not yet reached its true value or true potential. So a contra strategy basically invests in underperforming sectors and stocks, and a value strategy basically invests in undervalued sectors and stocks. Alex.

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Alex Matthew1:07:45

Understood. If you look back over the last decade and if you try to judge how the performance of these strategies have functioned and what the outcome has been, fact is, Rushab, that more often than not, in more years, you've had a value strategy that has emerged on top. Is that not the case?

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Rushab Desai1:08:09

See, typically what happens is that growth as a strategy has been comparatively more consistent than value, because in a value strategy, it takes time for its price to unlock, for its true price to actually shine out in the markets. So value as a strategy may be cyclical from time to time, but growth as a strategy would be a little more consistent from time to time. So this is what we tell our investors out there, that if you are investing, see, investing in different strategies is very important, Alex, because every strategy has its time of outperformance and underperformance. So if you see historically, growth as a strategy has done comparatively much better than value, but when value has played out well, it has actually given some extraordinary returns compared to growth. So if you're investing in a growth-oriented strategy, then probably four to five years is a good time horizon, but if you're investing in a value-oriented strategy, then six to seven years is a time horizon I would keep because it can get more cyclical compared to growth.

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Alex Matthew1:09:20

Understood. Okay. All right. And that point is well noted, because you try to buy stocks and companies that are underperforming and it usually is at the bottom of the cycle that is found, and then after that you have to wait for the rebound to take place. So this is something that you have to have more patience with. But having said that, what is the experience been for a contra option? Because if you look at the options available, Rushab, there are not too many schemes that are available because a fund house has to choose between a contra strategy and a value strategy, don't they?

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Rushab Desai1:10:01

Absolutely, Alex. See, the reason why I like contra strategy is that you can play the contra strategy by investing in a contra fund, number one, and you can be a contrarian and play out the contra strategy by investing in different funds, different categories, different market capitalizations, different sectors, and invest when these categories and sectors are underperforming, have corrected say by 10, 15, 20% or so, and then probably take a selling call when these funds, categories, and sectors have given some really good returns. So you can be a contra investor by investing in a contra fund, and you can also be a contra investor by not investing in a contra fund, by playing out in different market capitalizations and strategies. I'll give you some very interesting data, Alex. See, as per historical data, I pulled out returns of Sensex since 1980 till 2025, which is around 45 to 46 years. Now, if you see, every year, almost every year, equity markets have fallen on an entire basis anywhere between -10 to -20%. At the same time, 80% of these periods out of this 45 to 46 years, 80% of the time period, markets have ended on a positive note at the year end. And when the recovery phase enters and when markets have entered into a bull run, markets have not only recovered well, but markets have really given some superior double-digit risk-adjusted return. So you can actually be a contra investor every year, because see, no one has made money by investing in a bull market. If you invest in a bull market cycle, then you should expect probably single-digit returns.

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Narrator1:12:01

Well, hello and welcome to Profit. And here we are out with Infosys Q4 results. Let me quickly take you to the results. If we look at the overall revenue, revenue is up 2.2% and come in at 46,402 crores. Numbers will be soon coming out on your screen as well. If you look at the overall EBIT margin, it sees an uptick of roughly 2.7% and coming at 9,743 crores versus 9,478 crores in the previous quarter. Now we look at the overall margin, it sees an uptick of 15 basis points versus the estimates for an uptick of 9 basis points, which has come in line with the estimates. The numbers have come in line with what we were estimating in terms of the profit. We see a jump of roughly 27% versus we were estimating a jump of 11%. We are seeing profit to be much better than what we were estimating and a beat in terms of the overall profit number as well. If you look at the overall profit, it has come in at 27.7% uptake, that has come in at 8,501 crores versus 6,654 crores in the previous quarter. Let me take you again to the numbers. If you look at the overall key numbers, revenue is an uptick of 2% and come in at 46,402 crores versus in the previous quarter of 45,478 crores. Now in terms of the key EBIT, EBIT is up nearly 2.78% and has come in at 9,743 crores versus 9,470 crores in the previous quarter. Now in terms of the key watch out in this quarter is the guidance. While the overall Infosys guidance is an uptick, while last quarter we did see guidance with 3 to 3.5%, while in this quarter we are estimating a guidance with 2 to 4%, but they have stayed with the upper band of 3.5% while reducing the lower band from 3% in the previous quarter to 1.5%. It's something to watch out on how the overall guidance pans out for the management going ahead, given they had announced and they had upgraded the guidance in Q3. We also saw the overall HCL Tech guidance has come under the estimates. Further, we also make a note that Infosys guiding of such low growth of 1.5% is something to watch out for. So all in all, we do see numbers coming in line, but the guidance has come below what we were estimating. Let me quickly take you all to other key highlights in this particular quarter. We do know that the overall CC growth has come in at negative in this quarter, it is down about 0.3%. Now while if you look at the overall CC growth in this particular year, it has come overall positive, but in this quarter we see a slight dip. Now in terms of the numbers, let me quickly take all the numbers again. The revenue is up 2% and coming in at 46,402 crores versus 45,478 crores in the previous quarter. While the EBIT is up 2.78% at 9. So while we also have the presser joining in here, let's quickly join to the presser and understand what management has to say about the results.

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Salil Parekh1:14:39

We delivered a strong performance in financial year 2026. We had growth of 3.1% for the full year in constant currency terms. On Q4, our growth year on year was 4.1% in constant currency terms, and we had strong growth in financial services, in communications, in manufacturing from the industry side, and Europe from the geography side. Large deals were very good, 14.9 billion for the full year, 3.2 billion for the fourth quarter. The full year was 28% larger than it was the previous year. We shared our AI strategy during the AI investor day a few weeks ago. We see a large addressable market for AI services across the six areas that we mentioned: AI strategy, engineering, data process, legacy modernization, physical AI, and trust. With our Topaz fabric platform for AI and our Cobalt platform for cloud, we have differentiated capabilities. The capabilities that are operational today and that are working with our clients across each of these six areas of the AI landscape. As we look ahead to the financial year 2027, we see large opportunities in AI services. We also see continued competitive intensity and we see an AI productivity impact, a combination of these things. With a clear AI strategic roadmap and a real-world toolkit of Topaz fabric, we are well positioned to support a client's transformation, technology, and operations objectives. A revenue growth guidance for the financial year 2027 is 1.5% to 3.5% growth year-on-year in constant currency terms. We expect acceleration of growth in financial services and in energy, utility, resources, and services vertical. Our operating margin guidance for financial year 27 is 20% to 22%. With that, let's open it up for questions.

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Moderator1:17:04

Thank you, Salil. Joining Salil is Mr. Jesh Sangraka, Chief Financial Officer of Infosys. The first question is from Ritu Singh from CNBC TV18.

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Ritu Singh1:17:14

Hi Salil. Hi Jes. Salil, first on your guidance itself, 1.5% to 3.5%. If you could break up for us, there are a bunch of acquisitions you've made at the end of the quarter. By when do you expect them to close? Will it be sometime during the course of FY and if yes, how much of that is baked into these numbers? And especially on the discretionary spend environment, because we've heard from your peers like HCL Tech for instance talking about how there were two large US telecom clients that had cut down on spends, there were cancellations of two SAP projects and so on. Wipro again giving a similar sort of commentary. So what are you seeing from your clients in some of the verticals you had highlighted the last time that were seeing weakness? What sort of guidance you have there? Secondly, on your margin 21%, if you could break up for us how much was the tailwind from currency etc. What portion have you reinvested? What the philosophy there is? And Jes, 20,000 was the figure you gave us for hiring for the last fiscal. What's the plan for this year? What are the wage hikes that you've planned and the time period for that? And Salil, if I may, there's been some speculation about your tenure here at Infosys. Your current term ends in March next year. Has there been a discussion at the board level about a potential extension? And would you wish to continue for a full term? What's been the talks around there?

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Salil Parekh1:18:39

So, let me start with the industry view on the guidance of the revenue. Jes will give a little bit of the color on the acquisition what you mentioned, what the way we have made the guidance, and some other market outlook. So what we are seeing right now is financial services, we are seeing an acceleration of our growth next year. So we had growth in financial year 26, we are seeing more growth in energy, utilities, services, resources vertical, similar good more growth there. What we are seeing in terms of projects, we see that at the AI investor day we shared that our AI services revenue was growing nicely. We see on the large deals, the net new is pretty large for the full year at 55%, so that gives us support for growth. And we see the compression that we mentioned in that AI investor day and earlier just now as a combination. We are not seeing something that has unusually changed from that last quarter to this quarter. In the sense, these are the scenarios we were seeing. It's not either become more or less, it's that sort of a scenario. Good growth on those industries I mentioned, good growth both in the AI and compression, and there's competitive intensity. And all that put together with a little bit of color on the acquisition is where the guidance comes out. And then on margin, also Jes will give some view.

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Ritu Singh1:20:20

You know on AI for instance, you told us in your investor briefing that 5.5% of the revenue in the third quarter came from AI. The total addressable market is about 300 to 400 billion. In the fourth quarter, is there a number you could provide us? Annualize, what is the number you see? If there's more clarity you could give us, or what market share do you target from this 400 billion figure?

S

Salil Parekh1:20:47

So we are targeting a very good market share from that number, which was for 2030 what we had given the addressable market from an external study. The growth in AI services is very strong, but we have not disclosed that revenue number externally.

R

Ritu Singh1:21:07

5.5% you had 2500 in the third quarter. Is this roughly the number?

S

Salil Parekh1:21:13

5.5% is that, yeah.

R

Ritu Singh1:21:15

But was it similar in the fourth quarter?

S

Salil Parekh1:21:17

No, it's growing. It's much, much more growth in the fourth, but we're not giving the number. But it's growing very nicely.

R

Ritu Singh1:21:23

So it's higher than 5.5%.

S

Salil Parekh1:21:25

Yeah. Yeah.

R

Ritu Singh1:21:26

Okay.

S

Salil Parekh1:21:29

I'll let Jes answer the other questions.

J

Jesh Sangraka1:21:32

Yeah. So if you look at the revenue guidance, I'll just maybe come back to the Q4 full year revenue numbers. The 3.1% growth was after absorbing lower third party related revenue which was 1% and the lower on-site mix which was 70 basis points. So we should look at the revenue numbers in that context. Both of that impacted the revenue from the overall revenue growth perspective. In terms of the guidance for the next year, we had three acquisitions or two acquisitions and a JV that we announced last year. The acquisition with an insurance company which is Stratus, which is already closed and it's baked in in the guidance. What is baked in the guidance is approximately 25 basis points or a quarter point of the guidance. The other acquisition was Optimum, which is not baked in because we have not closed it yet. We are still awaiting certain regulatory approvals and once that is closed is when we'll bake in. The third one is a JV with an Australian client of ours, which is also pending regulatory approvals right now. So we have not baked in both of that in the guidance at this point in time.

R

Ritu Singh1:22:36

Sorry. So only 25?

J

Jesh Sangraka1:22:39

The status is 25 basis points at this point in time.

R

Ritu Singh1:22:44

Of the margin break up and the high.

J

Jesh Sangraka1:22:47

Yeah. So if you look at the margins, the full year margins is at 21%, the quarterly margins also 20.9, very close to 21%. If you take the puts and takes of the margin walk from the last quarter, we got 50 basis points impact from an acquisition related amortization that we absorbed. There was a 30 basis points of one-off benefit that we got in Q3, so when you compare that's a headwind, and 20 basis points on account of comp related matters. That was partially offset by 40 basis points of currency benefit and 30 basis points came from a maximus performance. Thank you. I think question.

R

Ritu Singh1:23:27

Yeah. And your last question was hiring. The last year we had announced 20,000 for FY26 and we have hired more than 20,000 freshers from the market. This year also we are expecting at least 20,000 freshers to be hired.

M

Moderator1:23:44

On the tenure. I think Salil.

We'll now move to Mani Daw from ET Now.

M

Mani Daw1:23:58

Good evening Salil and Jes. Pleasure talking to you. My first question is on the margin sustainability. Margins have remained resilient despite multiple headwinds. So what gives you confidence in sustaining the same going forward? And the next question would be on the global uncertainties which we have seen these days. Global uncertainties like the geopolitical tensions and cautious climate spending. What early signals are you seeing for FY27? Do you expect growth acceleration or another year of consolidation moving ahead? Thank you.

S

Salil Parekh1:24:32

Let me start on the margin. Jes will have much more color. I think some time ago Jes started the program on the margin expansion or margin protection, and that is one of the main reasons why the company has been able to remain resilient on the margin. So we have been fairly consistent across a large number of years. The program is very strong and is being executed well. We will continue to see there are also great pressures, but we are confident with the guidance that we've given this year for the margin between 20 and 22. And then Jes will give a little bit more color. But on the global environment what you asked, I think what we are seeing there is, at the start of this year we were starting to see the start of the calendar year, we were starting to see the global environment, the growth especially in strong markets looking good, and even in the markets where we are now making a bigger movement, for example Japan, was growing quite nicely. Now with the situation with the Iran war, there was a change in the economic environment. Now from what we are seeing, there seems to be paths towards things stabilizing. We hope everyone gets there. From what we understand, just talking to people in the market and the clients, the underlying resilience of some of the economies where we have the big markets is pretty good. The economies are doing well. There's good investments. AI is growing well and we have a good strategic approach on AI services. So my sense is that will definitely help, but we'll see how it plays out. So we've given the guidance of the growth based on what we are seeing today. We'll see whether some of this comes true or some of this changes as the year goes.

J

Jesh Sangraka1:26:40

Yeah. If you look at the margin program, like Sal was saying, it's done well. In the first year we expanded margins by 50 basis points. This year, while we have maintained margins at 21%, I think we have absorbed a lot of headwinds and we have also invested a lot in the business. Our sales and marketing cost has for instance gone up by 40 basis points. We have invested in all the AI related capabilities and the AI partnerships. We have invested in talent. So I think we have absorbed all of those and delivered 21% margin. That is what gives us confidence going forward. But at the same time, there are going to be headwinds. There is competitiveness in the market. There is acquisition that we have done. The acquisition related cost will impact margins by another 60 to 70 basis points. So those are headwinds that we will have to absorb while we talk about the margin program. And our endeavor is to improve margins on a medium to long-term period, but this year we are confident of delivering 20 to 22%.

M

Moderator1:27:34

Thank you. The next question is from Chandra Shikhan from Money Control.

C

Chandra Shikhan1:27:40

Hi Salil. Hi Jes. Sal, you mentioned BFSI and energy and utilities a couple of times. I just wanted to understand what is giving you so much confidence there. And as Ritu pointed out, some of your peers have spoken about client specific issues and how discretionary spending continues to be a challenge. So what is working for you in terms of the normal business as well as AI business? And AI also, because you mentioned last time that it's now 5% of revenues for you. If you can give us a sense of where things stand now, it'll be really useful. In terms of acquisitions, do you see opportunities in AI startups? Is that something that you will look at? And how do you see Mythos impacting your business, if you can give us some color on that? Jes, the wage hikes for this year, how you thinking about it? And I think after five, six quarters, we've seen employee count actually declined by over 8,000. So why have the number of employees declined? Thanks.

S

Salil Parekh1:28:52

Sure. So let me start on the financial services and that sort of environment what you mentioned. So what we are seeing, and some of this we shared in that AI investor day, if you look at many, all of our industry groups with our largest clients, we are already the AI partner of choice and that's giving us a lot of traction. Now you look, I mentioned financial services, energy, utilities, but you look at manufacturing, you look at telco, some of the work we are doing in those industries, there are large programs in the pipeline for things which were within that six grouping. So take an example of building agents, take an example of legacy modernization. We are also seeing a lot of discussions with clients which are a combination of tech services and operations, a tech and ops type of businesses, and there again we are in a good position which is in the pipeline. So that is giving us the feeling that this is looking similar to where we were. It's not something has suddenly changed in that sense, at least with our client base and so on at this stage what we see here. Then on acquisitions, you've seen we did two acquisitions. The thing with that is, the pipeline again, we have Jes and Sham looking at a very strong pipeline, but we have a very careful approach: strategic fit, cultural fit, value fit. So it has a lot of integration, like we have to know how it's going to integrate into where and so on. So all that keeping in mind, we could see suddenly a lot, but suddenly it could be three quarters of nothing also. But we are in it, meaning we are looking. And what we did on acquisition was like healthcare, we see a good market, we have a good business, we think we can do more, so it was a good way to expand. And it's a good company there in the sense of we will be integrating and culturally it's aligned. Same on insurance, that's a company which is working with the Guidewire platform package. So that is something which we are very keen on expanding. So like that, acquisitions will continue. On Mythos, I think there are multiple things. So the what, because not everything is released to everyone, but we have some good relationships with the company to understand a little bit from the outside. It will be exposing more vulnerabilities than one thought possible previously. However, other models are also exposing vulnerabilities. A question of running those models in that way. My sense is it may also open up opportunities for work for Infosys, which is to help clients who say, look, how can we make sure that you don't succumb to that vulnerability. So we are looking at it both ways. And my sense, it's early, very early discussions, but my sense is if we build a good capability in that, we could help our clients to say, look, let's make sure that your vulnerabilities are better and quickly protected.

C

Chandra Shikhan1:32:21

AI revenue?

S

Salil Parekh1:32:22

AI revenue, yeah, exactly.

C

Chandra Shikhan1:32:25

Oh, right.

S

Salil Parekh1:32:28

Meaning we are not sharing the number, but it's growing.

C

Chandra Shikhan1:32:31

Sharing because last quarter you disclosed for the first time. So why are you not disclosing it?

S

Salil Parekh1:32:36

No, what we did was in the AI investor day, it was a strategic sort of an outlook. So we wanted to just make sure that we communicated that it is in a material way and it is growing nicely. At one stage we will, but today we are not sharing it.

C

Chandra Shikhan1:32:54

Has it touched double digit of your revenue? Like is it now 10% of Infosys revenues?

S

Salil Parekh1:32:59

Is it 10% or 50? You're not sharing the number.

C

Chandra Shikhan1:33:04

I think the couple of questions for Jesh.

J

Jesh Sangraka1:33:06

Yes.

C

Chandra Shikhan1:33:06

A net employee.

J

Jesh Sangraka1:33:09

Yeah. So if you look at the headcount, our headcount sequentially has gone down by 8,000 employees. But if you look at on a year-on-year basis, it's still grown by 5,000. There's always some quarterly seasonality. But if you keep that aside for a moment, headcount is a function of the number of people that you have, the utilization that you have, the volumes that you see. This quarter the volumes were softer and that equation is what we'll end up net hiring plus the fresher that you have in the system.

N

Narrator1:33:40

Well, hello and welcome back. So we are back with the overall commentary what we have heard from the CEO of Infosys. Now let's quickly understand the key numbers and also let's try to understand the key takeaways from the result. Now in terms of key number, we do make a note that the revenue has an uptake of 2% and has come in at 46,402 crores versus the Q3 number earlier at 45,479 crores. Now if you look at the overall EBIT, EBIT is an uptick of 2.79% which is in line with the estimate, it's better than estimate actually, has come in at 9,743 crores versus 9,565 crores what were the estimates. Now if you look at the overall EBIT margins, it is an uptick of 15 basis points and come in at 21%. Management has reached that 21% mark which is the midway of their guidance what they have given in this quarter and the earlier quarter as well, versus 20.80% in the previous quarter. Now in terms of the overall net profit, that sees a good uptake of 27% if you look at the overall guidance what we saw for the profit was nearly 11% of uptake, but it has come better than the estimate, is up about 27%. Well, if you look at the key takeaways and what we understand, the numbers have come in line with the estimates while the profits are better than the estimates. Apart from that, the overall CC growth has come in at negative 1.3 versus 0.6% in the previous quarter. So you see that the overall CC has turned negative in this quarter and that's the lowest in last four quarters. We also saw the pressure similarly in the other companies as well. So we understand the overall degrowth in the CC coming in because of macro environment. If you look at the other key takeaway, the management has not disclosed the overall AI revenue. We were estimating, even all the brokers were estimating the management to come out and disclose the AI revenue, but they have not in this particular quarter. But they do say that as stated in the analyst day at 5.5% previously, and they see that growing very well in the coming quarters as well, and they also see a good growth when it comes to the overall AI deal win. Now in terms of the other key guidance, that's the overall guidance which was a key focus area in this particular quarter. The overall guidance for FY27 stands at 1.5% to 3.5%, while we were estimating between 2 to 4%, which is still lower but still better than not going below that 3.5 mark, because in previous quarter the guidance was 3 to 3.5% and all the analysts were focusing that if the guidance goes below the 3.5, then it might not be something that the investors like out there. But they have maintained the upper band at 3.5 itself, but they have lowered the lower band from 3% to 1%, which is a slight negative. Apart from that, the overall large deal wins a downtake of 33% and coming at 3.2 billion versus 4.8 billion in the previous quarter. The downtake in deal win is coming on the back of that high base we saw in the previous quarter. So we do know that numbers are in line with the estimate. The CC growth is a big thing, a big negative for the company so far down 1.3%, but not disclosing the AI revenue, that's something to watch out for, and what further commentary of the management of what worked in this quarter is something to watch out for. So all your numbers are in line with the estimate, but the guidance is something the street might not like. So I thank you all for joining us today.

T

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I

Interviewer1:38:17

Even as the mood on IT overall is a bit negative, all of the companies are coming out with their numbers and Tech Mahindra in terms of commentary is perhaps showing a more optimistic outlook than others. What's leading to that optimism? I'm speaking now with Mohit Joshi, CEO and MD of Tech Mahindra. Mohit, great to catch up with you after the numbers that have come in. In line with most expectations and some of the analyst commentary today is also talking about how it is a great maneuvering in a tough quarter. But let's come to the outlook. You're sounding more optimistic than other IT companies. What's leading to that?

M

Mohit Joshi1:38:59

Thank you. I think we were delighted by the numbers we were able to report yesterday for the quarter and for the full year. And really, the trajectory of growth that we've shown over the past couple of years since we announced the transformation plan has been very satisfying. An upward trajectory in terms of revenues and obviously a 10 quarter expansion in margin. But while we've been demonstrating this upward trend in margins and profits, we've also been building the institutional capabilities of the company. We've been winning a lot more large deals. And as we get into FY27, that is really what is giving us the confidence. The very solid foundation that we've built for the business and the backlog of large deals that we have now created obviously gives us more revenue visibility into the current financial year and leads to our confidence that we'll be able to meet the commitments we'd made to the market of a 15% margin and growth ahead of our peers.

I

Interviewer1:39:55

You know, the big talking point really for your space is the impact of AI, and some of the other companies have talked about deflationary impact of AI that they will see on revenues. Now you don't talk about AI revenues as a separate reporting like some of the companies do. Can you give us some visibility on AI revenues and do you see any deflationary impact at all?

M

Mohit Joshi1:40:21

Sure. So look, AI clearly is a very big theme not just for our industry but obviously for the entire world. It is driving a huge amount of productivity and hopefully in the future will lead to revenue expansion for our clients and for ourselves. The way we see it, there is a very significant modernization opportunity, there's a very significant opportunity to deploy agentic AI to our clients, and also a lot of the R&D work we've been doing, for instance building sovereign large language models, building a telco reasoning model, all of these we feel will result in significant revenue opportunities down the line. In the short term, though, there is a concern that some of the productivity asks that are being driven by the client will result in some revenue compression for the industry as a whole. But I feel that the overall size of the opportunity is very significant. Every single technology transformation wave for our industry, whether it was the Y2K movement or the enterprise apps, was positive. There's no reason why this should be different.

I

Interviewer1:41:24

No. So what is the kind of deflationary impact you would see? Some are saying 2 to 3% for their businesses or for the industry. Are you seeing any kind of deflationary impact or hit on revenues in that range?

M

Mohit Joshi1:41:36

Look, I think the 2 to 3% number has come only yesterday from one of our peers. It's not something that I have seen previously. Clearly, for any portfolio, you've got a large portfolio for instance of application management or application maintenance or infrastructure, and when these deals are being rebid or they're being repriced, there's a certain expectation of productivity from clients. But that productivity expectation has always been there. Maybe now there is an AI flavor to that. But I would not say that there is a specific set number which is deflating revenues because of AI which is any hugely different from what we've seen in the past.

I

Interviewer1:42:17

Okay. So at the cost of repetition, just because this is an important point, I'm going to double click on it again. Are you saying that you're not seeing any impact or any deflationary impact of AI on revenues going forward?

M

Mohit Joshi1:42:31

Sure. So look, what I'm saying is there is clearly a productivity expectation from clients. Some of that productivity expectation is driven by adoption of new technologies. But it's very hard to strip apart the two, saying what is a normal productivity expectation in a repeat versus what is the productivity expectation because of AI. And also the fact that you really can't separate just the deflation, you also have to look at the opportunities that you have for expanding your portfolio of offerings. So it is not just the one thing, it's multiple things altogether.

I

Interviewer1:43:01

Okay. So you're not looking at it that way. Fair enough. Talk to me about BFSI. That's where you've seen sharp recovery. What has led to that and what has worked in this one vertical?

M

Mohit Joshi1:43:12

Fair enough. So if you look at our recovery, not even our recovery, our performance in Q4 was quite broad-based. Manufacturing actually was the fastest growing vertical for us. We also did extremely well in telco, which has been sort of a home market for us. For BFSI, FSI candidly is one of our third largest portfolio, but clearly is the largest spender in terms of technology. The way we've gone about it is we've obviously looked at our existing set of accounts and the headroom for growth there. We've opened a number of very promising accounts, Fortune 500 companies, which we feel we have the opportunity to scale. And we've really brought in world-class talent from the industry. So I think a combination of these three factors: headroom in existing clients, new client acquisition, and new talent acquisition. I think these three things are helping us, and I'm quite confident that as we move into the current financial year, this tailwind that we've had should continue.

I

Interviewer1:44:06

You know, maybe it's a matter of timing, but I'm asking you another question which is stemming from commentary from one of your peers. Communications is your largest portfolio, and now commentary coming in that discretionary spending is lowering in communications or in telecommunications. Are you seeing this?

M

Mohit Joshi1:44:25

I think that commentary was very specific to a client or to a set of clients really. As I look at our telecoms portfolio, we do see opportunities for expansion and for growth in the current year. But that's also because our telecom portfolio is structurally different from a lot of our peers. Their telecom portfolio is only in the IT space. We obviously have a significant IT component to our telecoms business, but we also have a large BPS business. We have a very large business in network services, and networks really are core to telecoms. We also have a very successful product business in Comviva that has grown at double digits for the past 2 years now. So I do feel that we're feeling optimistic about the opportunities in telecom. There will obviously be client fluctuations and client specific discretionary spends, but our broader portfolio and the fact that we are not dependent on a handful of clients and have broader global coverage should insulate us to a degree.

I

Interviewer1:45:20

Okay. In terms of your deal pipeline looking strong, you've spoken in some detail about some of the new deals or the ongoing deals, Orange, FICO for example. What is the translation to revenues looking like? Can you give us some color there?

M

Mohit Joshi1:45:35

Yeah. So, look, I mean, usually these deals take a couple of quarters to ramp up and then to ramp up fully. We expect these deals to follow the same trajectory. It usually takes between 3 to 6 months for the ramp ups to start, and then we're hoping for a healthy uptick from these deals in the remainder of the year. When I look at the numbers that have been reported this time, I think the hedging has hit maybe the profit number and there has been a re-look at the hedging policy I believe. Can you just give us some more details on that?

Sure. So look, like all the other players, we do hedge our FX exposure. But given the extreme volatility that we've been seeing from a currency perspective, we have now started to reduce the tenor of our hedges quite significantly. So from an average of 2 years, we have come down to an average of 1 year or less, and that is the way we are dealing with the exposure.

S

Salil Parekh1:46:33

Clearly go both ways. We are not a bank, we're not a treasury operation. We just want to minimize the risk that we have to our earnings from foreign currency volatility.

S

Speaker 11:46:42

Okay. In terms of hiring as you ramp up your deals, is it going to lead to more hiring because you have a net negative hiring for the year at -6.5%? Is that net negative hiring an impact of larger AI optimization?

S

Salil Parekh1:46:59

Yeah, look, I think the net negative number is slightly smaller than that because you've had quarterly variations and you do have a lot of seasonality in our BPS business. I think the way we've been looking at it is a lot of the incremental revenue that we've generated, we've been able to stop it with the efficiency that we're seeing from our fixed price programs. Right? I think we are quite clear about the fact that our fixed price programs had some efficiency to deliver and I think as people get released from that, we've been using them for new projects. Clearly as we see growth, we will be hiring. As our chief operating officer had shared yesterday, even despite a muted growth last year, we did take on over 900 freshers and we expect to take on more than that in the current year.

S

Speaker 11:47:46

To what extent can you give us any kind of outlook in terms of more freshers that will come in?

S

Salil Parekh1:47:53

Well, look, we recruited about 6,000 in FY25. We recruited about 900 plus in FY26. I think it would be more than the FY26 number, but certainly less than FY25.

S

Speaker 11:48:07

Okay. So the trajectory is not growing in that sense. It's an important broader point to...

S

Salil Parekh1:48:12

It's growing. It's growing. It's not going to hit an all-time high. That's all.

S

Speaker 11:48:16

Okay. Okay. As we wrap up, I want to get your view on the commentary about how Indian IT companies are standing up against the AI wave. How do you answer some of those questions that I'm sure you're being asked all the time?

S

Salil Parekh1:48:32

So look, my sense is that this is an industry that has evolved over time. I've been part of the industry now for nearly 26, 27 years and I think over time the industry has really deepened its level of ability to play at the technology cutting edge, has developed a very deep understanding of our clients and of our clients' industries. And as AI gets more broadly adopted, as is the need to modernize the existing technology stacks and to build new AI stacks, the industry has a role to play in this transformation and in building a bridge between the old stacks and the new stacks. Thanks.

S

Speaker 11:49:06

Okay. Thank you so much for your time. Mo Jooshi there, CEO and MD of Tech Mahendra on the quarter gone by.

S

Salil Parekh1:49:13

Thank you so much.

M

Mahima Vasarani1:49:16

Hello and welcome. You're watching NDTV Profit. I am Mahima Vasarani and Havells India is in focus on the back of its Q4 earnings. For sure a beat in terms of where growth in cables stands. Lloyds and electronic consumer durables of course did see a drag and this is on account of Q4 not being a very strong season for consumers as a whole and macro outlook of course will be something that we'll be watching out for in terms of future demand considering competition. But to take this conversation forward, we're joined by Anil Rai Gupta, the chairman and managing director at Havells India. Joining us now, Mr. Gupta, always a pleasure speaking to you. My first question is with regards to cables and wires. You know that's one of your strongest growing segments this quarter. Just want to understand considering the competition clearly rising, how sustainable do you think this growth is going forward in FY27?

A

Anil Rai Gupta1:50:08

Thank you. I think cables and wires, not only is the demand strong, but also the fact that Havells has continued to invest in the capex cycle in the last couple of years which has given us good capacity for our industrial cables business which is underground cables. There we see fast growth in the entire year in the fourth quarter last year. In fact, the stronger segment which is the largest segment amongst cables and wires, which is domestic wires business, did see a revenue flattening in the fourth quarter because of the fact that there were raw material price disruptions and de-stocking of the channel during the first half of the quarter and also a high base over last year. So overall it's a mixed performance and we look forward to the coming year.

M

Mahima Vasarani1:51:00

With regards to Lloyds as well as your electronic consumer durable segment, of course Q4 is not the strongest quarter because of delayed summer etc. But now that summers have really picked up, how are you seeing the traction of demand coming in for both of these segments?

A

Anil Rai Gupta1:51:18

I think last year was a dampened year because of the summer season. Inventory was built up at the channel, the consumers were not really picking up the material, and the industry faced huge headwinds in this business. I think going forward, fourth quarter was not really a marker for this because there were channel inventories, but I think going forward in the first quarter we should see a stronger summer as compared to last year which would mean a higher growth in this business as well.

M

Mahima Vasarani1:51:51

Mr. Gupta, with regards to your raw materials, I believe that they will have inflation because of this entire West Asia conflict. Just want to understand as to how much of an uptick have you seen in terms of raw material inflation and how much of that will be impacted in Q1 and Q2 because I believe that to a large extent price hikes are going to cater to it, but what is the scenario looking like right now?

A

Anil Rai Gupta1:52:18

Yeah, I think we are undergoing this challenging period because we started off the calendar year January with already some raw material hikes in copper, aluminium, silver, but with this West Asia conflict, the other products like petroleum which directly affects engineering plastics also came under purview. Because of this, price hikes are imminent which has been going on and is continuing. While it may affect because sometimes the entire cost cannot be passed on, so it may affect the margin, but also I think what we are more concerned about is how it impacts the demand. So we're all looking forward to a reasonable conflict resolution in the West Asia market for markets to settle down and the demands to become normalized in the coming quarters.

M

Mahima Vasarani1:53:10

Got it. Mr. Gupta, overall if you take a look at the sales growth for FY26 as compared to FY25, it's been a tough year, it's seen a growth of around 3 to 4 odd percent. Going forward in FY27, considering demand, competition, considering this impact of West Asia conflict as well, what are the growth projections internally that you would have discussed for topline as well as bottom line?

A

Anil Rai Gupta1:53:38

Well, I think last year you're right, the growth was in low single digits also because of the fact that our major portfolios of air conditioners, fans, air coolers actually saw a negative revenue growth in the last year. So going forward, I think this year looks very positive from all points of view, but also from a numbers point of view, we see price hikes here, we see a good summer, a low base last year. So frankly, even if there's a decent growth, I think we'll have to look at 2 years as a whole of CAGR. So we are expecting much better growth in the coming year because of these factors I talked about, but our continued investments in brand, distribution, product innovation, that's the real key for our growth drivers in the coming year.

M

Mahima Vasarani1:54:31

Got it. And for margins, they'll be the same range as they were in the last 2 years?

A

Anil Rai Gupta1:54:38

Well, we strive for normalized margins, increasing market shares. But as I said, this West Asia conflict is something which is very fast but also temporary hopefully. So let's see how the margins pan out, but our strive will be to recoup our margins through our strong brand, innovation, and distribution.

M

Mahima Vasarani1:55:03

All right, Mr. Gupta, thank you so much for being so candid with your answers and of course taking out the time and speaking with us at NDTV Profit.

A

Anil Rai Gupta1:55:12

Thank you.

N

Narrator1:55:14

L&T actually came out with its numbers and if you look at what brokerages are saying on this counter, largely they have not changed their stance. ICICI Securities has maintained their hold rating, has marginally cut down the target price to 3,380 from 3,550 the earlier target price. Now they are saying that the company's looking quite robust post the uptick they have done. Apart from that, they also say that the portfolio rationalization has dimmed the performance in the fourth quarter. They have cut the EPS estimates for FY27 and FY28 by around 5 to 6% on the back of weaker than estimated growth in the high-tech vertical of the company. They also say that FY27 revenue growth will likely be in mid-single digit given the fact that there's a strategic change, leadership change, and macro uncertainty. Now to give us more details on this, we are joined by Amit Chhatta of L&T Tech. Firstly sir, in the third quarter FY26, management explicitly stated they used that quarter to re-evaluate market trends and consult with their clients to prepare the 5-year strategy starting FY27. So what has Q4 thrown up for you?

A

Amit Chhatta1:56:31

So what Q4 and the year has thrown up for us. If I also give you a summary numbers here, we ended up at total revenue for the company at $1.32 billion. If I look at continuing business, which is the business that we will take going forward because we have divested a part of our business, we ended up at $1.233 million of continuing operations, up 8.3% year-on-year. EBIT margins came in at 14.5% and net income came in at 1,281 crores, up 7.4%. Just in the quarter for continuing business, we came in at a net income of about 347 crores, which is up year-on-year as well as quarter-on-quarter, 24% up year-on-year, 9% up quarter-on-quarter. Overall, mobility has stabilized for us and will grow in FY26. Sustainability is up 13% year-on-year and tech has done well, they've grown about 19.7% year-on-year. North America as a market grew 12% year-on-year for us and Europe grew 2.5% year-on-year and both of these will continue to grow. Sixth quarter in a row where we've brought in about $200 million of large deal wins. In fact, one deal win is about $75 million over 5 years. And overall thematically, H2 has been better than H1 as we stand today.

S

Speaker 11:58:11

Also, can you provide any update on the large deal pipeline size, TCV trajectory, conversion rates, and expected ramp-ups that we are looking in FY27 topline?

A

Amit Chhatta1:58:23

Sure. So look, if I look out, my pipeline today is up 31% year-on-year. Number two is that our large deal wins also as we look forward, I am fairly comfortable with this $200 million per year trajectory. The entire large deal wins through the year stood at about $855 million, which is up 40% from last year. So we are entering FY27 on a good note. Margins are up and they should continue to inch upward. Whatever we had to stop doing, we have completed all that in quarter 4 and you will continue to see the continuing business grow quarter-on-quarter from here on as you go forward. Lastly, we've actually added a $50 million account in our category as well. So after a very long time, a $50 million plus account and we're sitting on a number of large deals in the three-digit category TCV, two-digit category and we believe that will help us. Additionally, we have done two more things as you look forward. One, from a headcount standpoint, after a long time we've added about 500 headcount net headcount in the company. I do believe that as I go forward into the year, I will add another 500 headcount. The number of AI patents has gone up in the company and we are pivoting on engineering intelligence like I've told you. And finally, we made a little bit of a change, we've actually re-designated one of our board members to become the head of strategic initiatives, large deals, and growth markets because we want to focus on that. And we've also inducted a CFO on the board of the company. So those have been in a nutshell what we have just done.

S

Speaker 12:00:08

Now that FY27 marks the formal start of your 5-year strategy, can you give us some specific revenue growth band for FY27 in constant currency terms?

A

Amit Chhatta2:00:20

Sure. So if I look at FY27, you will see the company strive for between 13 to 15% CAGR. So if I look back at the past, we grew at about 12.4% CAGR over the last 5 years which was higher than the industry which grew at about 8%. As I look at the next 5 years, I aspire to deliver between 13 to 15% CAGR over the next 5 years in an EBIT range of 16 to 17%.

S

Speaker 12:00:53

But analysts are watching for FY27 guidance as that is the ultimate needle mover. What are you penciling in there?

A

Amit Chhatta2:01:00

So FY27 will be higher in terms of growth than the organic growth we had in FY26 for sure. But to be played out, as you are aware we have stopped giving annual guidance. That's why we are providing a five-year view and we're fairly comfortable in this 13 to 15% band in a 5-year period and largely driven by organic growth.

S

Speaker 12:01:22

Thank you, Mr. Chhatta. Thank you for joining us and giving us the way forward for L&T Tech.

T

Tamana Anamar2:01:36

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A

Alex Matthew2:02:00

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Narrator2:02:21

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Speaker 12:03:23

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V

Vicramos2:06:00

Good evening. I'm Vicramos on The Big Question here on NDTV Profit. Tonight, we're taking on two debates shaping everyday India. The first one is right there. As India tightens the screws on online gambling but loosens the rules for gaming startups, there are consumers who are being left exposed even as these startups are getting a boost. Which is why the one big question tonight and later of course the other big question is this one. Everyone seems to be talking about it. It has gone viral on social media where one lady has unleashed her wrath at a protest rally in Mumbai for holding up traffic during that march. And the question we're asking is when political rallies bring cities to a standstill like this one that happened, should citizens be forced to pay the price? Those are the two big questions. But up front, let's bring up the first debate. And there it is. From the 1st of May, India's Online Gaming Rules 2026 will officially kick in and they draw a sharp line in the sand. Online real money games are now explicitly banned. Banks and payment gateways can be directed to block transactions and a new Online Gaming Authority of India, the OGAI, becomes the nodal regulator. But here is where it gets a little more interesting. The government is calling this entire regulation light. The framework they're saying is a light framework. Most non-money games, whether they are casual or social games, will not require mandatory registration or even prior determination. Esports gets a formal statutory regime with certifications that are valid for 10 years, which means it goes up from the 5 years that was the case earlier. And the rules do mandate strong user safety features. So age verification, parental controls, time limits, grievance redressal, addiction support, all of that. And yet, critics are asking this. With the minimal oversight and the deemed approvals, is self-regulation enough, especially when free-to-play games can still influence behavior? Which is why tonight we're asking this big question now that we're seeing this boost for startups. Now that is growing up because of the kind of framework that we have for online gaming. Is that increasing the risk for consumers? Let's take it across to our panel and let me introduce you to them. Joining us on the show today is Akshata Rati. He's co-founder and managing director of Nwin Gaming. It's one of India's many esports and gaming companies. He joins us on the show. And on the other side of that debate, Nachiket K. Yagnik, the managing associate at Freda Legal, head of the gaming team is joining us as well. Good to have you both with us. Akshata Rati, you know, if most non-money games now operate under deemed approval with little upfront vetting, you think we're effectively asking users to discover harm first themselves and then complain instead of preventing it at the design stage?

A

Akshata Rati2:09:01

I think the best way to answer this is the government has said this is a piece of software. Whether you have ChatGPT, whether you have OpenAI and Anthropic, whether you're using Microsoft Excel, whether you use any other software, the government is basically saying a game if it is not an esport and it is not real money gaming, which are the two outlying conditions, it is a piece of software and you should go ahead and try it. They've also said if it becomes big and if it causes harm, which they have kept as a little discretionary from them, they can tell you to stop it. But what they've done is to take the two big things and remove them from the equation, which is esports and real money gaming.

V

Vicramos2:09:44

What do you say, Nachiket? These blanket bans on real money gaming have historically pushed users towards unsafe offshore platforms. So isn't a regulation light regime like the one that we have now for the domestic startups actually the lesser of the two consumer risks?

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Nachiket K. Yagnik2:10:01

No. So essentially what the rules do is that they mandate that all non-social games, the non-money fortune games, will be allowed to be operated without any registration unless and until there are certain factors such as harm and all. But the banning of online money games has obviously, like you pointed out, has also led users to explore other avenues such as VPNs and they've also tried to... Sorry.

V

Vicramos2:10:42

Yes. Yes. Carry on.

N

Nachiket K. Yagnik2:10:45

Yeah. So I used to say that essentially what the complete ban does is it also often increases user harm by leading them to explore unregulated platforms which don't always have KYC protocols in place or data protection protocols in place. So that's one key that is going to be looked at in the coming days as we understand how these rules will be enforced practically.

V

Vicramos2:11:15

Right, so enforced practically how it's going to happen. But Akshata, meanwhile for the startups, these rules clearly improve the ease of doing business but we've got a fast scaling industry over here. So then you imagine self-regulation realistically keeping pace with the addictive design, with the monetization tweaks, the algorithmic nudges. Is that likely to?

A

Akshata Rati2:11:37

Look, this is a profit channel, right? So NDTV Profit, so let me just actually go ahead and say the way that this would open is this one last frontier which is the Indian youth consumer is the one that is available for the world to fight on. China has done its way to grow the market and by the way China went through the same process. China banned edtech after a certain amount of time where it wasn't behaving in a certain way and China banned real money gaming and gambling systems in China and other countries have also taken the same view. I think what we will do is this will give what I call 90% clarity of what works and what doesn't work. And they're fairly clear about gambling is not kosher. Money in and money out is not kosher. There are loot boxes for example, right? Loot boxes is something that the world regulates in different ways. Is it a percentage chance that you have to declare? Is there something gacha? It's called the gacha mechanic. Is that something that is good or not good? I think that's where the market will evolve and big value is always created on a certain bit of ambiguity that goes in for people to take some arbitrage on. I think those would be the causal outcomes as long as the youth is not being harmed and I think we are one of the biggest youngest nations in the world. I think the responsibility on this is to have responsible behavior and that's where self-regulation should come in. I think people will mark it up once in a while and they should be punished for it.

V

Vicramos2:13:04

I like the way you said that we're in it for the profit and that's what the channel stands for as well. But yes, as far as our youth is concerned, we want to safeguard their interest. So with registrations and now you have an Online Gaming Authority, Nachiket, the registrations now are valid for 10 years. So now the authority, the Online Gaming Authority, will it truly have that kind of agility to step in quickly if there is a clean social game that later pivots towards any kind of predatory monetization? Do you think they have the teeth to be able to carry that out?

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Nachiket K. Yagnik2:13:36

The rules provide for the OGAI to essentially step in, have suo moto, it can monitor on its own and ensure that if a game has been given its certificate of registration and then the algorithm changes to ensure that now it starts monetizing the game and there's predatory monetization of the game or there are certain algorithmic changes which lead to user harm, then the OGAI has the authority to not only cancel the registration that has been afforded to the game but also relook at the game and go ahead and even prohibit it or ban it if deemed necessary. So I think the rules in theory give the OGAI enough ammo to ensure that the certificate of registration is not misused by the game developers who've gotten it. Again, like you said, we're going to see the proof of the pudding when this is actually put in place and is followed in the letter and spirit that it's put forth by the OGAI.

V

Vicramos2:14:41

But Akshata, the free-to-play doesn't mean risk-free, right? Should addictive mechanics and the in-app purchase pressure be treated as the next major consumer protection challenge, even if there is no real money that is wagered here?

A

Akshata Rati2:14:58

So look, most entertainment items whether it is Netflix that you watch or any in-app purchases that you do whether they are cosmetic or for vanity or for leveling up your sword with gold stars on it or whatever, this is going to be a vanity metric for a lot of people. I think the difference between that and addiction is something that will evolve as a market goes together. And I think the responsible behavior is looking at the precedence that is everywhere else in the world. I'll add some fact which is there. The wording of this is fairly phenomenal where MeitY is the nodal one and you have an additional secretary who's going to be leading this. But look at the other departments they put. They put the Information and Broadcasting Ministry so that people don't do advertising on OTT and on linear television. They put the Sports Ministry for sports. They did the Finance Ministry so that banks can be told to ban any other items that are not being looked at. So the ability to make sure that it is a literally multimodal framework is one of the more phenomenal ones that you have seen in the world. I work in about 22 countries in the world. I've never seen such multiple departments come together. Will this work? I hope so. But as a construct, I think it is a phenomenal construct. The world will impact. I've actually had words with different people in the world and they are saying this is really good.

V

Vicramos2:16:18

Right. Will we go and meander a little bit as we always do to get to the final destination? Absolutely. But that's the fun part of the game, right? To see it in practice. Of course, the guard railing you say is there. And yet when I look at the rules, Nachiket, these rules rely heavily on grievance redressal. So one wonders if you're shifting the burden of policing harm onto the users rather than onto the platforms, onto the regulator.

N

Nachiket K. Yagnik2:16:44

So essentially, obviously grievance redressal, the imposition of grievance redressal systems is paramount to ensure that users can point out what is wrong with the platform, but that does not mean that the OGAI will not be monitoring how the games operate on their own independent footing as well. So the OGAI will obviously have the power to pull up any game developer irrespective of what the grievance redressal mechanism or that process does. Now it is also interesting to note that the users will also have the ability to take on appeals if they are not satisfied with the grievance redressal mechanism that an online gaming provider has set in place and they can appeal directly to the OGAI within 30 days of said decision. So that's also something that is to be considered.

V

Vicramos2:17:34

Fair enough. So Akshata, when you look at it from an industry lens, you see this regulation light framework like they're calling it, do you think that is genuinely going to unlock innovation because that's the game of the industry, or do you think it risks future backlash in case public trust is eroded by a few bad actors? If that happens, then what do you see?

A

Akshata Rati2:18:00

Look, I think the final answer of this is where is big value being created. I think value will be made in developers who will now develop with a very clear framework. They'll be able to raise capital from external companies in the world who would know that an Indian developer knows this framework. There'll be publishing outcomes both on PC, console, and mobile that will come out. There'll also be bigger esports events and investments that would go into infrastructure and deployments there. What would happen in certain parts is someone will make a bad game. Someone will make something that is racist. Someone will do something that is against the sensor board. And I think that's the power of that multimodal industry which is there. We already have frameworks of content sitting with the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting under the sensor board. I'm not saying they're censoring games but they already have a framework of content that is available. You will have whether it is SEBI, whether it is the RBI, whether it is MHA, whether it is the Ministry of Sports, they already have these frameworks to look at outliers and do this. So rather than create a whole new statute of laws that would be only under this ministry, they'll use the powers of existing ministries and existing frameworks to make sure that the definition is extremely clear for people to create value. So if you make mistakes...

V

Vicramos2:19:21

So if you consider all the points that you're making right now, Akshata, do you think India is likely to build a globally competitive gaming and esports market without compromising on consumer safety or there is some level of risk that is inevitable in innovation-driven sectors like gaming?

A

Akshata Rati2:19:38

I think AI is the flavor of the year. So I'm going to take an example. I think AI can be used for great harm and great good. I think we should be building for India and I think the Prime Minister when he was at WEF said it clearly. We should build the cultural power of soft power which Bollywood had. We think we can do it with gaming and I think we can take it not only for a captive market in India for gamers which is 500-600 million big but also for the world where we can take these frameworks and tell other emerging markets in the global south that this is how to build gaming sustainably and responsibly. I think this is a great idea to do this. I keep saying this, it's the 1990. I think it's great for 90% of the people. It's okay for 9% of the people and 1% of the people will mark it up and then we have to watch out for them.

V

Vicramos2:20:27

Right. So the system has what it takes to be able to get those checks and balances, at least that's the larger takeaway. And yes, innovation has to be balanced against user safety as well. And that's something else that is work in motion but a crucial debate on innovation versus oversight. My thanks to Akshata Rati of Nwin Gaming, Nachiket Yagnik from Kreda Legal. Thanks very much. So as far as viewers are concerned, yes, India's gaming rules may boost these startups, but their real test is going to be on whether consumer safety evolves as fast as the industry does. But now on to the second big question that we are posing this evening. So yes, as far as the rules are concerned, as far as gaming is something that we're talking about, we've seen that happen. But now things are changing and very rapidly. So what is happening right now is this lady who has gone out and spoken her mind. Our second big question tonight is from that moment that has gone viral. It struck a chord with millions of urban Indians. It's a political rally in Mumbai. It has choked roads. There was complete traffic disruption. Ultimate chaos. One angry citizen. You're seeing her on your screens. She had had enough. Just listen in to what had happened over there.

I

Israeli Citizen2:21:41

Get out of here. Before you allow the damn traffic. Okay, get out of here. Did you not understand? Did you not understand? No. No. What is wrong with you? They're all a mix. Hundreds of people waiting. There is an empty ground there.

V

Vicramos2:22:30

So there you're seeing it in that video. You're seeing a lady in Mumbai. This lady confronting a state minister demanding to know why a political rally was allowed to block those public roads and derail daily life. And this isn't an isolated incident. You've seen the Maratha reservation protests, the burns in Kolkata, the Cauvery disputes in Karnataka, the Jallikattu protests in Chennai and yes Telangana as well. Those agitations took place in Hyderabad. Even the high security lockdowns during the G20, public life in Indian cities repeatedly being disrupted in the name of politics. But this time the public response was loud and clear. In fact, our social media poll is showing that political rallies should not be allowed on busy city roads. 100% of the votes are against that. And we asked if the woman was justified in confronting the minister. 60% of the people who pled are saying yes. So the remaining 40 of course they say that both sides are to blame. But really it brings us to the big question tonight. When you're talking about political rallies and our public life, should citizens be the ones paying the price? We have urban planner and public policy expert Rishi Agarwal joining us on this and Kushbu Jen is an advocate at the Supreme Court of India. So let's get into this debate. Rishi, when a city like Mumbai is brought to a halt even for a few hours, there is an economic cost in lost productivity, in fuel wastage, in business disruption. How do you see it?

R

Rishi Agarwal2:23:52

Absolutely. I mean Mumbai being a business city, it's always the economic aspect which comes into mind. I don't think we really appreciate or sympathize with the amount of stress under which Mumbaikars live on a daily basis. So I think the health impact on Mumbai, the stress impact is huge and all of that can also be quantified as an economic impact. But just the pure financial numbers, I think it is terrible the amount of time which gets wasted in traffic jams. Meetings are disrupted. People cannot schedule meetings. Mumbai as we all know is very a stickler for time and time is money over here. So if you're going to waste time like this on some reason or the other and political rallies are just one reason. I mean the traffic management is anyways terrible and so all of these things really add up. I mean if we want to be a $5 trillion economy or whatever $1 trillion economy, we need to really value the time of people and we can't treat these kind of matters in such a shabby, irresponsible manner.

V

Vicramos2:24:56

But I would imagine Kushbu Jen saying that the right to protest is a constitutional right. Kushbu, where does it end when it directly interferes with the right to work and the free movement of other citizens?

K

Kushbu Jen2:25:08

I think both of them are right when it comes to the right to protest when it comes to your democracy. You do as a citizen have a right to protest but at the same time as a citizen we enjoy other rights in the constitution and that right is the right to freely move around, that right is the right to work, that right is the right to reside and freely move wherever you want to. Now if these rights have been disrupted and disrupted for a long time, there have been so many judgments, a plethora of judgments passed by the High Court and several passed by the Supreme Court and several High Courts where they have stated if this disruption has cost life or has disrupted the life of the people or cost some financial or livelihood difficulty then the state should be at the cost. There have been so many judgments on that given by the courts and I think the Champaras Soy judgment which is utilized everywhere clearly has put across that there was a man because of some blockade obstruction that was there because of the road blockade. The person was not able to take his son to the hospital and he lost his son's life and that's where the court said that you need to compensate as a state to the father but at the same time said that there has to be a mechanism. You will have to also understand one more point over here that we do have laws in place, the acts in place which says that if you want to do though it is your right to protest, there can be a designated place where you can do the protest but also it doesn't tell you that you can't do protest on the road but you need to take permission from the police and after the permission is given is where you can do that but if permission is not given the police is duty bound to make sure that the disruption or that blockade is removed and I think that's where the whole question should lie whether the permission was given or whether the permission was sought. Number one, whether the permission was given and after that if this has continued, why disruption part when a city like Mumbai on a normal day whether there was no other public space possible for them to do the protest. We are living in the age of technology or social media, you can very well utilize those gardens or those maidans to do the protest and put it across.

V

Vicramos2:27:12

Let me take that across to Rishi. Rishi, these designated protest spaces, you think they are poorly utilized. Should policy mandate that large political gatherings be restricted to those zones? Is that something that is not happening and should?

R

Rishi Agarwal2:27:27

I've seen enough amount of political protest or public protest at Azad Maidan over 25 years and let me tell you that it's a very poor cousin to the kind of protest which you end up seeing on streets and obviously everybody wants to be on the streets for a certain reason because the street is a political space. The Azad Maidan, nobody's watching you. You could be partying over there or protesting over there. Nobody cares. So the street I can understand is a place which really disrupts activity and is visible in the face. Having said that, let me also add to what Kushbu was saying but generally also that I think there are very few genuine public protests in India. Honestly, these are all very cynical, politically organized protests. We all know how the protesters are gathered, how people transport is provided, other incentives are provided. So there is very little genuine public protest in India anyways. You don't have things like what has happened in Ireland recently or happens in France or happens in Korea. Unions come in big force and there are a lot of membership based unions. Those kind of things don't happen. So these kind of protests honestly I don't even attach much importance to. These are very cynical.

V

Vicramos2:28:38

And the economic fallout that you were talking about, Rishi, these disruptions do they disproportionately hurt the gig workers, the small businesses, the logistics, while the political power centers remain insulated and that is the grievance of citizens?

R

Rishi Agarwal2:28:53

Absolutely. You can just imagine a city like Mumbai on an hourly, on an every minute basis, deliveries are happening by gig workers whether it is home essentials or whether it is food or whatever. And imagine with this kind of a thing, thousands of gig workers' orders would have been just immediately disrupted. There would have been absolute chaos. They would be receiving calls, orders getting cancelled, money to be refunded. So many things.

V

Vicramos2:29:20

What should one do, Kushbu Jen? Should city administrations be held legally liable when crowd control, when traffic management failures happen and those impact public life at the kind of scale that we're looking at? Should they be legally liable? What does the law provide for in this case? You did mention one case, but now we're not looking at extremities. We're talking about disruptions that clearly damage public life, daily life that we're talking about which the city and its economic wheels cannot afford.

K

Kushbu Jen2:29:51

Absolutely. I think if even in principle I have to give you an answer, yes. There should be a compensation jurisprudence in public law that already supports liability for failure to discharge positive duties on the state but at the same time if you look into it, whether it is there, it is not there, it is case to case basis specifically where a severe harm is caused and you are able to prove the harm is where the judgments have been passed but we should not even wait for the judgment to come in place that I have to go to the court to seek something which is already provided in the constitution to me and which is already a duty of the law enforcement agency or the state to look into when it comes to public order, when it comes to providing me free movement on the roads. And I think this is where we need to build in a broader compensatory jurisprudence around these roadblocks or things that have been happening. And I think the earlier panelist was superb on the point that it is no more that right that was given in a democratic state to protest. This is literally been some invested parties who want to have their invested agendas put across and that's what has been happening. And I think that's where we need to come to the aspect which is not just compensatory but compensatory and at the same time the element of making it mandatory that let that be in the designated spaces, not on the roads. Because I'll give you one small example. I'm sorry Vikram, if I am running my own office but let's say I'm working in an organization, there is always a punch in and punch out. I reach late, I have been given the thing. I have a flight to catch. Will they pay me the compensation for that 5,000 rupees? Will I go and sue in the court? These are the answers where...

V

Vicramos2:31:33

So at the end of the day, Kushbu, who owns the city during the working hours? Is it the citizen? Is it the economy? Is it the political class? I mean this is turning out to be a very mood question.

K

Kushbu Jen2:31:45

If I have to answer, it is the citizen who have to enjoy the growth of the city. The economy of the city depends on the citizen. But at the same time, the duty comes on the state. The duty comes on the law enforcement agencies to make sure that there is a non-obstructive peacefulness in the city without any disruption. I think here one more example I want to put across and I don't know whether it will be a happy example. You look into the aspect of when it comes to ambulance, forget the ambulance, if a minister has to go somewhere, they practically have 10 cars ahead of them and 10 cars behind them and they block everything and move ahead. If their work is important, this work is important. And if this obstruction can create a problem let's say tomorrow for an ambulance to reach a place, will there not be an issue? There will be an issue.

V

Vicramos2:32:31

So in a democracy, everyone is to be equal and that is getting challenged. So this debate cuts to the heart of urban life. There is democratic responsibility. Of course, there is going to be much more of this in the future where we kind of pin down the issues and the possibilities of being able to tackle it. But my thanks to Rishi Agarwal and Kushbu Jen for joining us with their perspectives tonight. Running out of time, but yes, the takeaway is that democracy as far as India is concerned, yes, there are checks and balances. Democracy needs space for protest definitely. But when it affects our daily life, our public life, if it gets disrupted and hits at our economy, that's when things get a trifle difficult, and we have to find real solutions. That's what this show is here for. The Big Question on NDTV Profit. Vikram, thanks for joining us.

T

Tamana Anamar2:34:28

Hi, I'm Tamana Anamar. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories. What happened? Why it matters and what it means for your money.

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Nidat Sha2:34:41

Hi, I'm Nidat Sha. Watch me on NDTV Profit for the most incisive market intelligence and meaningful corporate conversations.

A

Alex Matthew2:34:52

And I'm Alex Matthew. Markets, mutual funds, insurance, personal finance. I help you cut through the noise and make smarter financial choices. And here's where you can watch us.

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Narrator2:35:12

He has been tracking markets for over a decade. Spots the trends before they hit the screen.

A

Alex Matthew2:35:29

Hi, we're talking about your money matters on NDTV Profit and my name is Alex Matthew. Buy when everyone else is fearful and sell when everyone else is greedy. This is something that I'm paraphrasing of course, but it's a famous quote and it has to do with sentiment in the equity markets. It is something that has proven to be useful and has proven to be successful more often than not over the past many years. But how do you do this? And is there an opportunity to look at a mutual fund strategy that does this for you without you having to do it? That's exactly what we're talking about today. It's called either the value strategy or the contrarian strategy. Of course, these are used interchangeably. That may not necessarily be the most accurate way to describe it though. We've got Rushab Dai, founder of Rupee with Rushab Investment joining in to talk about this. Rushab, thanks so much for taking the time. Let me first ask you about this value contrarian strategy that is available in mutual funds. How does it work? What is the thesis?

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Rushab Dai2:36:37

Hi Alex, thanks so much for having me on the show. Alex, there is a very thin line difference between value and contrarian strategies. See what does a contrarian strategy do? A contrarian strategy basically invests in underperforming sectors, stocks and segments in the capital markets. Now if a particular segment is not doing well and if that particular segment has corrected say by 10, 15, 20%, then a contrarian investor or the fund manager would be more brave and take aggressive calls in that corrective pocket. Now on the other side, what does a value strategy do? It basically invests in undervalued sectors or stocks or segments in the capital markets. Not necessarily that particular pocket would have corrected sharply but either the stocks or the sectors or that particular pocket in the capital markets would have been undervalued. It has not yet reached its true value or true potential. So a contrarian strategy...

A

Alex Matthew2:37:42

Right. So it's about finding those pockets of the market that are out of favor or undervalued and then investing in them with a long-term view. That's a great explanation, Rushab. Thank you for that.

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Rushab2:37:45

Basically invests in underperforming sectors and stocks, and a value strategy basically invests in undervalued sectors and stocks.

A

Alex Matthew2:37:53

Understood. If you look back over the last decade and if you try to judge how the performance of these strategies have functioned and what the outcome has been, fact is, Rushab, that more often than not, in more years, you've had a value strategy that has emerged on top. Is that not the case?

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Rushab2:38:16

See, typically what happens is that growth as a strategy has been comparatively more consistent than value, because in a value strategy, it takes time for its true price to actually shine out in the markets, right? So value as a strategy may be cyclical from time to time, but growth as a strategy would be a little more consistent from time to time. So this is what we tell our investors out there: if you are investing, investing in different strategies is very important, Alex, okay? Because every strategy has its time of outperformance and underperformance. So if you see historically, growth as a strategy has done comparatively much better than value, but when value has played out well, it has actually given some extraordinary returns compared to growth. So if you're investing in a growth-oriented strategy, then probably 4-5 years is a good time horizon, but if you're investing in a value-oriented strategy, then 6-7 years is a time horizon I would keep, because it can get more cyclical compared to growth.

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Alex Matthew2:39:27

Understood. Okay. All right. And that point is well noted, right? Because you try to buy stocks and companies that are underperforming, and it usually is at the bottom of the cycle that is found, and then after that you have to wait for the rebound to take place. So this is something that you have to have more patience with. But having said that, what has the experience been for a contra option? Because if you look at the options available, Rushab, there are not too many schemes that are available, because a fund house has to choose between a contra strategy and a value strategy, doesn't it?

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Rushab2:40:08

Absolutely, Alex. See, the reason why I like contra strategy is that you can play the contra strategy by investing in a contra fund, number one, and you can be a contrarian and play out the contra strategy by investing in different funds, different categories, different market capitalizations, different sectors, and invest when these categories and sectors are underperforming, have corrected say by 10, 15, 20% or so, and then probably take a selling call when these funds, categories, and sectors have given some really good returns. So you can be a contra investor by investing in a contra fund, and you can also be a contra investor by not investing in a contra fund, by playing out in different market capitalizations and strategies. I'll give you some very interesting data, Alex. See, as per historical data, I pulled out returns of Sensex since 1980 till 2025, which is around 45-46 years. Now, if you see, every year, almost every year, equity markets have fallen on an entire year basis anywhere between -10 to -20%. Okay. At the same time, 80% of these periods out of this 45-46 years, 80% of the time period, markets have ended on a positive note at the year end. And when the recovery phase enters and when markets have entered into a bull run, markets have not only recovered well but have really given some superior double-digit risk-adjusted returns. So you can actually be a contra investor every year, because see, no one has made money by investing in a bull market. If you invest in a bull market cycle, then you should expect probably single-digit returns.

A

Alex Matthew2:42:06

Is that true though? Because if you think about it, if you invested in 2020 at the start of the bull run, right? And I'm saying start of the bull run because you had that crash and then after that you had a bull run, some argue that we're still in a bull run, that you've just had an interruption and things will pick up eventually, but people have made between 12 and 18%.

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Rushab2:42:33

See, I'll give you a very interesting data point here. What you are saying is right. I don't disagree to that. There will be funds which would have done well, but at the same time, if you look at the data, say for example, if someone would have invested in 2007, okay, when markets were in a phenomenal euphoria, and if you take out the data from 2007 to 2025-2026, many of the indexes have generated single-digit CAGR returns. But at the same time, if someone would have invested during the global financial crisis in end of 2008 or so, people would have made some really good 18-19% CAGR returns. So to answer your question, yes, there will be funds which would have done well if they are managed well, but at the same time, it's always better to invest during correction pockets because it gives you margin of safety and it gives you ample upside opportunity, Alex.

A

Alex Matthew2:43:36

Yeah, it's a good point. But if you're investing on a consistent basis through a SIP route, then you don't have to worry about timing one or the other. The idea is that you will get close to average returns, and that itself is something that most people don't manage to do. So you might be in a small cohort of successful people. Let's talk about some of these strategies though, and we're focusing on contra strategies. Rushab, what are the schemes in the category up to in terms of what have they achieved over the last 5 years and what stands out about how they're doing this?

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Rushab2:44:14

Okay, so there are not many schemes in the contra strategy space. There are probably three or four schemes. One is Kotak Contra Fund, second is Invesco India Contra Fund, and third is the SBI Contra Fund. Right now, I pulled out some very interesting data on a 5-year daily rolling CAGR basis from 1st January 2020 to 21st of April 2026. All of these three contra funds have managed to generate higher alpha, number one, have managed to outperform the Nifty 500 TRI index a much higher number of times, and have delivered consistent returns as well. Now these three contra funds have delivered superior returns and have outperformed many of the value funds as well. Let's look at the top two performing contra funds, Alex. One is the Kotak Contra Fund and second is Invesco India Contra Fund. Now, if I look at the Kotak Contra Fund, the average returns generated on a 5-year daily rolling CAGR basis from 1st Jan 2020 to 21st April 2026 has been 16.3% CAGR. This is on an average. Number two, the Kotak Contra Fund has generated greater than 12% CAGR returns 84% of the time period, and the outperformance strike rate compared to Nifty 500 index has been 100%. Number two, going to the Invesco India Contra Fund. Average returns generated has been 16.1% CAGR. The fund has generated greater than 12% compounding returns 77% of the time period, and the outperformance strike rate has been 83% vis-a-vis Nifty 500 TRI index. So over the past 6 years, Alex, contra as a strategy has managed to do really well even compared to many of the value funds out there.

A

Alex Matthew2:46:21

That's very interesting. So if you were to discuss the positioning of a contra fund in a portfolio, Rushab, how would you go about it? Because ultimately this is not something that forms the backbone of your portfolio, or is it?

R

Rushab2:46:37

No, it can form a backbone. Alex, see, when we look at portfolio creation, we always recommend, number one, asset allocation is the standard way to go ahead, but at the same time, it's very important to invest across different styles also, Alex, which I just mentioned earlier. It's very important to invest in growth-oriented strategies, in momentum-oriented strategies, and value-oriented strategies, and contra-oriented strategies as well, okay? So if you're creating a portfolio, say probably 20 to 25% of the allocation can be given to contra funds, because contra funds have managed to not only deliver outperformance returns but have also managed to be more consistent over the period of time periods as well. So I think a good portion of 20-25% can be given to contra funds in one's portfolio.

A

Alex Matthew2:47:30

Okay. So that's certainly something, but if you have chosen to add contra in your portfolio, should you also add value? That is a question, right? Because ultimately you've described the difference between the two, but you've also pointed out that contra has tended to outperform even value as a strategy, so how do you choose between the two? Would you choose one over the other?

R

Rushab2:47:55

No, one can keep both the funds in one's portfolio. So around 20-25% can be given to growth funds, 20-25% to momentum funds, 20-25% to value funds, and 20-25% to contra fund. So allocating equally across four strategies should do the job, because every strategy and every fund will outperform and underperform from time to time.

A

Alex Matthew2:48:21

Got it. I got it. All right. So I think that pretty much covers this topic, and thanks, Rushab, for taking the time as always. Insightful conversation.

R

Rushab2:48:33

Thank you so much, Alex.

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Alex Matthew2:48:36

It's been a turbulent period for markets as a whole, and you just need to look at two months to see what I'm talking about. If you look at March on the one hand, your equity portfolios would have fallen through the floor. And then if you look at April in isolation, you will have seen quite the meteoric rise. Earlier today, I was having a conversation with somebody who tracks the equity markets very closely. And we were talking about this index, the Nifty 500 index. And I was asking him how many of those constituents have risen sharply. And what he pointed out was that well over 300 stocks in that 500 stock index have seen an uptick of price of more than 30%. That's practically two-thirds of that index. Does that mean that the worst is over in the war? Does that mean that India's footing is stronger than it was thought to be in March? And how are fund managers looking at this? I think the best way to understand that is to understand the positioning in the multi-asset strategy, because this is something that is used by fund managers to shift between asset classes depending on where they see the best opportunities. Joining me now to talk about multi-asset as a strategy and what it means going forward is Ashish Naik, who's equity fund manager at Axis Mutual Fund. Ashish, thanks so much for taking the time. Let me start by asking about how your multi-asset fund is managed. And the reason why I ask this is because there is a broad definition for how this should be managed and there are interpretations that fund managers have, and so there's quite a difference between how fund managers across the spectrum manage this category. So can you explain the product as a whole and then how you manage it?

A

Ashish Naik2:50:37

Sure. So yes, multi-asset funds as a definition need to be in at least three asset classes, typically equity, debt, and commodities, which are also typically gold or silver. In terms of how various fund managers manage, there is a difference in terms of how much each asset class is required to hold, and that is actually determined by primarily the equity level. So if the fund has a gross equity level of 65% or more, it is classified into the tax-efficient category or what we call as the equity taxation for mutual funds, which is where Axis Multi-Asset Fund belongs to. There are other funds which can have lesser equity, maybe between 35 to 65% gross equity, and in that case there is more room to add debt and commodities. The idea here is that all of these various asset classes have a very low correlation, and the diversification between them is what actually gives better risk-adjusted returns. So the way Axis manages it is that we have a gross equity level between 65 to 80% of equity, but with arbitrage we can go as low as 30%. So between 30 to 80% of net equity level is what we would hold in the fund. There will also be the remaining portion of debt as well as the arbitrage, and the balance is between 10 to up to 25% in commodities, which could be gold and silver.

A

Alex Matthew2:52:13

That's well described. So I just want to jump in here to ask you in what situations would this change? Because you've described, for example, that even if your equity allocation is at a minimum 65%, you can actually go significantly lower by adding arbitrage. So can you describe what situations would hypothetically cause you to go lower in equity and what situations would cause you to go overweight in equity?

A

Ashish Naik2:52:45

So yes, this is the next part that I was coming to in terms of how we look at asset allocation. We have an internal model which works as a framework in terms of how asset allocation should be done. There are various parameters that get fed into it, including valuations, including earnings momentum, including macro indicators as well as trends, and this is a model that has evolved over the years and we have been using it as a guidance framework for the fund managers across our hybrid funds to hold equity wherever we manage equity dynamically. In addition, we also have an asset allocation committee which also guides asset allocation to the fund managers. Now coming to the specific question on when we would be very low on equity and very high on equity. So obviously the various parameters that come to mind for equity being lower is if the valuations are very high or if we see that there are impending risks to the overall domestic growth story, which is what equities generally will be leveraged to, we would be going much lower on equity. So for instance, what comes to mind was the recent time period in the last two months where we had to cut down our equity exposures, and at one point of time from about more than 60% we had gone to below 53-54%. Having said that, when the situation reverses and when we see that fundamentals are now turning for the better, valuations are improving, earnings momentum is with us, we will also go higher. So in fact, at this point of time, there is also a situation where we are seeing that in many cases, not across the board in all stocks, but in many cases we are seeing across sectors valuations are favorable, and we have also increased our equity allocation. So just taking a step back, in terms of the overall economy itself and the markets, the start of this year was actually much better for India as a domestic market, as an equity market, in terms of the economic growth which was supposed to pick up with the consumption-led momentum that we were seeing, with the government policy push, with relatively benign inflation and other macro factors that were helping growth in terms of liquidity being good.

A

Alex Matthew2:55:10

What really went against the markets was...

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Ashish Naik2:55:11

What really went against the markets was, and also valuations had come down compared to other markets in the last 12 months. What really went against us is the one biggest stress that we face, which is geopolitics. I'm sure we will discuss more on it, and that's where the change we had to do in our fund allocations.

A

Alex Matthew2:55:29

Yeah. Yeah. What is the, as per the latest reading and official data that has been published by the fund house, where does equity allocation currently stand in the multi-asset fund?

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Ashish Naik2:55:42

So at this point of time, we are at the end of March somewhere near the 65% region.

A

Alex Matthew2:55:50

Okay. And a large part is pure equity and not arbitrage?

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Ashish Naik2:55:56

A large part is pure equity. There could be some derivative positions also, but yes.

A

Alex Matthew2:56:01

Okay. And gold or commodities in that basket, where does it stand at?

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Ashish Naik2:56:09

So again, great question. Both gold and silver as a basket, and especially silver has been extremely volatile as we know for the last two years. There has been a great up move in these two assets in that period where there was a move away from being into currencies due to geopolitical uncertainties. What we saw between them was an anti-dollar kind of a trade where people did not want to stay invested in any particular currency due to various risks, and hence they invested and flocked to things like gold and silver. Gold being much more stable has shown relatively lower up move, but on the downside in the last two months when things reversed and the dollar again started moving higher, the reversal in terms of gold has also been lower, while silver was much more volatile. As our asset allocation goes, we were much higher in our commodity exposure till the end of last year. And beginning of this year, we saw that the euphoria was reaching across both these assets and we reduced our exposure. So from levels which were as high as at the peak 23-24%, today at one point of time we had gone to as low as 11-12%. And currently we are about equal weight to our benchmark, which is 15%. In that, the mix is more tilted towards gold at this point of time, given that we feel that it is much more stable and current conditions are more conducive for an asset like gold which is much more broad-based.

A

Alex Matthew2:57:49

Interesting, Ashish. The reason I wanted to ask you about that is because a lot of people have flocked towards this category because of the outperformance, and that is just a tendency of how people have invested, and of course I'm glad to see that that is changing slowly and surely. But multi-asset funds have actually outperformed pure equity funds over the course of the last year, year and a half, largely on account of the way that gold and commodities have moved, and I'm saying that despite the kind of drop that you saw this year earlier this year in those prices, because despite that you're talking about in certain cases 40-60% of gains, right? But having said that, do you think that it's created a wrong expectation for the way that returns are meant to function in this category of funds, multi-asset, because the way that you run it, it is primarily equity, but it's not meant to give you your pure equity returns, right?

A

Ashish Naik2:58:46

Great question. Yes, what we envisage and what is the objective if we come to the multi-asset category, I think that's where this question should be categorized. A multi-asset fund is supposed to invest across these three broad categories of assets. As we know, there is very low correlation, and in fact if you look at commodities like gold, there is a negative correlation to assets like equity and debt. Yes, in terms of gold, we had a very big lull in terms of returns for a large part of last decade post-COVID, and especially post the geopolitical crisis since 2022-2023, there was a huge up move given the uncertainty and as we discussed, the overall global trade. Gold is a much broader asset class and hence the move there was much more calibrated, while there was a big move it was much more calibrated. Silver has a much lower investor base and it behaved in a much more volatile manner. The only way to look at these two is as part of the investment basket as part of an asset allocation strategy where, as we do it, we try to invest between these various asset classes depending on the attractiveness relatively between each one of them and the overall macro situation. So when the situation was more conducive towards being into commodities, we were much higher overweight in them individually and as an aggregate level, and we were able to cut down these exposures. So there is some level of active allocation in terms of how we want to be in these asset classes. Only being into one particular asset class, be it equity, debt, or commodities, will not help. A large part of your returns, especially let's say a large part of last decade, would not have given great returns if you were only invested in gold, and similarly if you were only invested in equities there would be big drawdowns. The multi-asset funds generally are able to bring down those volatilities, and hence there are time periods when the returns on multi-asset funds, let's say over smaller periods like one year, but more importantly over 2-3 years, the risk-adjusted returns are much better than any particular asset class. So I would say multi-asset funds are for the long term. They're not to be used for any particular return expectation in the shorter term. The idea is to hold them for a medium to long term, and based on the skill sets of the various teams that are managing it, they will be able to outperform, but not on absolute but risk-adjusted return levels.

A

Alex Matthew3:01:20

Yeah, that's actually a very interesting way of putting it. If I may, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, Ashish. It's the difference between driving very quickly in short bursts and driving at a steady pace. If you're driving at a steady pace, you might reach 3 or 4 minutes slower than you would if you were driving very quickly, and your experience would be very different between the two. One has higher risk and possibly higher reward. You get there faster. The other is a more steady state, and I guess that is what a multi-asset strategy is supposed to achieve.

A

Ashish Naik3:01:55

Yeah. So I hope that I was right in my description.

A

Alex Matthew3:01:59

Absolutely. The classic tortoise and hare story. So I will completely agree with you.

A

Ashish Naik3:02:04

Absolutely. Ash, thanks so much for taking the time. Pleasure speaking with you.

A

Alex Matthew3:02:08

Pleasure. Absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.

All right. Well, that brings us to the end of this edition of Your Money Matters. It goes to show that you shouldn't have the wrong expectation when you're investing in something that has outperformed in a short period of time, because there are multiple factors that might have led to that. Thanks so much for watching. Do stay tuned. This is NDTV Profit.

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Tamana3:03:36

Hi, I'm Tamana. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories. What happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

N

Nidat Sha3:03:49

Hi, I'm Nidat Sha. Watch me on NDTV Profit for the most incisive market intelligence and meaningful corporate conversation.

A

Alex Matthew3:04:00

And I'm Alex Matthew. Markets, mutual funds, insurance, personal finance. I help you cut through the noise and make smarter financial choices. And here's where you can watch us.

N

Narrator3:04:21

He has been tracking markets for over a decade, spots the trends before they hit the screen. And he is now bringing his analysis to the show that the market watches. Watch Shah Dubet on Know Your Company. A show that puts the most traded stocks under the scanner. We dissect the company so that you, the investor, don't have to. Get the management to answer questions relevant to you. Watch Know Your Company weekdays at 11:30 a.m. to understand your next big bet.

New year, new power panel, India Market Open, now in its boldest lineup. This is where the trends get tested and stocks get conviction. I'll recommend a buy call on a stock.

Infosys' fourth quarter performance comes in line with market expectations. Net profit surges 28%, but constant currency sees the sharpest fall in four quarters. Company says CC growth fell due to delays in March and seasonality. Nifty ends in the red for the second straight day, settles below 24,200. Broader markets outperformed the benchmark. Pharma outperforms sectoral gainers while auto leads the decline. Oil is ripping higher as diplomacy stalls. Brent surges past $102 a barrel. Fresh escalation observed between US and Iran as Trump orders navy to shoot boats placing mines and hormones. As Indian delegation wraps up three-day negotiation on the bilateral trade agreement with Washington, USTR representative Jamieson Greer says that India is a tough nut to crack. Points out India's long-standing protection of agricultural markets. Sources tell NDTV Profit that banks have flagged cyber security threat from Anthropic's new AI model Mythos. DFSI addresses the Mythos concern. According to sources, finance minister meets with banks on Mythos concerns. Godrej Properties tells NDTV Profit that caution is starting to creep into residential real estate with consumers starting to push back decisions due to uncertainty on the Middle East war. By-poll voting in Tamil Nadu and West Bengal: 82.2% voting in Tamil Nadu till 5:00 p.m. Nearly 90% voting in Bengal till 5:00 p.m. Indian cheese goes global by bagging four medals including super gold at Brazil event. PM Modi applauds historic milestone.

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Malika Mish3:07:21

Hello and welcome viewers. This is Malika Mish on NDTV Profit and you're watching Profit 360, a show that gets you all the latest updates on markets, national as well as international news. This evening, let's begin this bulletin by focusing on how Infosys has done in Q4. It reported a strong set of Q4 numbers with both revenue and profit beating street estimates. Net profit jumped over 20% year-on-year while revenue growth came in at around 13%, reflecting steady demand across key verticals. However, the company has struck a cautious tone on FY27, guiding for modest growth amid global macro uncertainties. My colleague Jasmid is joining us for a detailed breakdown of the numbers. Jasmid, take us through the key highlights.

J

Jasmid3:08:03

Well, thank you for that. If we look at the key numbers, they have come in line with the estimate, but the guidance is somewhere the overall state has still remained cautious. If you look at the key guidance for FY27, it is between 1.5 to 3.5%, whereas the street was estimating the guidance anywhere between 2 to 4 odd percent. Though they have still maintained the upper band of the guidance at 3.5%, what was in the previous quarter, but the lower band has gone quite lower and it's near 1.5 on the back of that macro uncertainties, which is something that will create a lot of fear in terms of the investors' view going ahead. If you look at the other key details, the overall CC growth is down 1.3%, which is below the street estimate. We were estimating a downtick between 1.8 to 1.1%, but it's down 1.3 odd percent, the largest fall in last four quarters. Apart from that, the large deal wins of 33 odd percent has come at 3.2 odd billion, versus 4.8 billion in the previous quarter. While large deal wins have come down on the back of that high base in the previous quarter, which is in line with the estimate and there's nothing to worry about it. Apart from that, if you look at the key numbers, the revenue has an uptick of 2.2% odd percent, while the EBIT is up 2.7 odd percent. The margins have expanded 15 basis points and reached the 21% mark in this quarter. While lastly, profit has turned out better than estimates and up 27 odd percent. If we look at the other key guided details, we look at the attrition has jumped 30 basis points and reached 12.6% versus 12.3 in the previous quarter. And one of the interesting aspects is the headcount reduction. In this quarter, we see a reduction of nearly 8,400 employees in Q4. Well, the management says this is seasonal hiring and they don't see any much impact of the overall business environment, and they also plan to hire 20,000 more employees in the coming quarter. So all in all, we do see numbers are coming in line, but the management tone remains cautious and even the guidance is lower, which will be something to watch out for.

M

Malika Mish3:09:45

Okay, thank you so much for that total breakdown of how Infosys has done in Q4. In fact, viewers, let's listen into what the management had to say on the company's growth guidance.

S

Salil Parekh3:09:56

What we are seeing right now is financial services, we are seeing an acceleration of our growth next year. So we had growth in financial year 26, we are seeing more growth in energy, utilities, services, resources vertical, similar good more growth there. What we are seeing in terms of projects, we see that at the AI investor day we shared that our AI services revenue was growing nicely. We see on the large deals, the net new is pretty large for the full year at 55%, so that gives us support for growth. And we see the compression that we mentioned in that AI investor day and earlier just now as a combination, we are not seeing something that has unusually changed from that last quarter to this quarter.

M

Malika Mish3:10:53

Right. Post market hours, another company that has been in focus for its Q4 is Adani Energy Solutions that has reported a steady set of numbers with its highest ever quarterly revenue up nearly 17% year-on-year, driven by continued strength in transmission and distribution. Net profit also saw a modest growth of around 6%. Let's now listen to what the management had to say about their fourth quarter performance.

A

Anil Rai Gupta3:11:18

Adani Energy Solutions has closed quarter 4 and FY26 on a strong and confident note, underpinned by discipline execution, operational excellence, and prudent capital management across all our business verticals. For FY26, we delivered our highest ever EBITDA of rupees 8,726 crore, reflecting a 13% year-on-year growth, while adjusted PAT increased by 32% to rupees 2,393 crore, highlighting the strength of our earning quality and resilience of our operating model. The total income also grew by 16% year on year to reach an all-time high figure of rupees 28,325 crore. This was driven by improved operating performance and high service concession arrangements.

M

Malika Mish3:12:11

Viewers, now those were two companies that announced their results this evening. But some of these companies that have already announced their Q4 numbers last evening, that's yesterday, have reacted in the stock markets today and that too on a negative note. Let's start with HLS. Shares of HLS India also fell more than 6% after the company's Q4 revenue came in below estimates. Brokerages have also cut their target price on the stock. We spoke to Anil Raj Gupta, chairman and managing director at HLS India. Let's listen into the part where he talks about protecting their cables and wires business.

A

Anil Raj Gupta3:12:44

Specifically, the company has continued to invest in the capex cycle in the last couple of years, which has given us a good capacity for our industrial cables business, which is underground cables. There we see a fast growth in the entire year in the fourth quarter last year. In fact, the stronger segment, which is the largest segment amongst cables and wires, which is domestic wires business, did see a revenue flattening in the fourth quarter because of the fact that there were raw material price disruptions and de-stocking of the channel during the first half of the quarter and also a high base over last year. So I think overall it's a mixed performance and we look forward to the coming year.

M

Malika Mish3:13:32

All right, next up are shares of Union Bank of India that plummeted over 8% as their Q4 results dampened sentiment around the stock. The lender registered a 1% degrowth in net interest income, plus provisions also jumped significantly, almost tripling on a sequential basis to 155 crore rupees. My colleague Push Shukla asked Ashish Pande on the company's loan growth guidance for FY27. Let's listen in to what exactly his answer was.

P

Push3:14:02

MSMEs who have an exposure towards the export segment. Do you see second and third round order impact coming on those, and do you feel going ahead there could be in Q1 or Q2 some sort of stress building? And if you could share the SMA one or two movement as well, has there been some increase? How are MSMEs doing on that front?

A

Ashish Pande3:14:22

So your first question was basically related to how we see the coming years or coming period. So it is very clear, let me just share with you. This is the third time I am meeting you in this hall. So we are very clear that you know, September when we met, I think 28th or 29th October, we made it clear that yes, then we met in the month of January 13th, I think 13th or 14th, and the growth you have seen, if you take the growth, it is more than 6.5% in the half year. So actually, whatsoever result you are seeing, it is on one six months we are muted, one six months we have tried to make it actually, so you see it is a more than industry growth if you ask me. So almost if you take 7%, 7 into straight away, if you take 6.5, so 6 into 4 quarter into four, analyze if you analyze it is almost 20-24%. So we will continue with that growth of that industry which is growing even better than that. So very clear, even our CASA growth is much, much better than the total I think retail and CASA which we have grown in the 6 months very fast in that. Now coming to the second part which you asked about, about the so government of India has come and Reserve Bank of India has also come on the exporters particularly. So in that, I think I'll give you the data. We have already... So 306 applications came through Jan Samad portal. In this, 210 are already sanctioned and 180 are already disbursed. And it has related to you know that 20% of the total limit I'm saying that one. And coming to the Reserve Bank of India trade relief measures, so there were eligible applicants were 522, in which we actually talked to all and then people 59 people have applied and that PC extension is for 35 applications, post shipment for three applications, and FITL for 40. So in total 170 and 21 and 49. So we are in discussion with them and we are disposing that as per the eligibility.

P

Push3:16:47

But going ahead, do you see any stress coming up? These are export credit measures. There's no moratorium as such on loan payments, right?

A

Ashish Pande3:16:56

Now we have not seen any, you know, there is that is stable, but yes, there sometimes we hear about Morbi cluster, you know, which is in talk. So basically where the energy intensive sectors are there, because there was delay in gas, commercial gas. So maybe these sectors which were more dependent on the energy side.

M

Malika Mish3:17:19

All right viewers, now it's time for our special segment. What if I told you that India's next global success story is not software or spices, but cheese? Allow me to explain. India's artisanal cheese industry, once a niche experiment, is now stepping confidently onto the world stage. At the prestigious Mundial do Queijo do Brazil 2026, Indian cheese makers didn't just participate, they made an entrance. Four medals including a super gold marked a debut that's hard to ignore. This moment reflects a larger shift. As urban India develops a taste for premium handcrafted foods, artisanal cheese is moving from curiosity to culture that's well identified. While processed cheese still leads in volume, a new wave of craft producers is reshaping the market and unlocking global export potential. One of the key names leading this change and charge is Mossum Nadang, a cheese maker whose work is helping put India on the global cheese map. We in fact have Mossum Narang joining us on the phone line right now. Thank you so much ma'am for giving us your time. Congratulations on the win. What did winning at the Mundial do Queijo Brazil 2026 mean to you personally and professionally? And did you expect Indian cheeses to receive this kind of global recognition?

M

Mossum Narang3:18:46

Firstly, thank you so much. I think the win has been absolutely amazing for my team and I. We've been making artisanal cheese for the past 10 years. So this is a fantastic step in the right direction, not just for us but for the entire artisanal cheese community across the country.

M

Malika Mish3:19:06

Right. Miss Narang, how challenging was it to build a premium cheese brand in a market which is mostly dominated by processed products? And are Indian consumers, according to you, becoming more open to experimenting with craft cheese?

M

Mossum Narang3:19:23

So when I started out, of course, the challenges had been plenty. So everything from the supply chain to the mindset to the market, the challenges were across domains. Sourcing, of course, India is one of the largest producers of milk in the world, so we have abundance of milk, but sourcing the right quality of milk, partnering with the farms, training the farmers on the quality of milk needed for artisanal cheese making, bridging the gap between the consumer and us producers. As far as artisanal cheese is concerned, as you rightly pointed out, we had been eating processed cheese for the longest time, and artisanal cheese is still in its nascent stages in the country. As far as supply chain was concerned, cold chain, and convincing the consumers, not just the end consumer but also the HoReCa segment, which is still a huge consumer of artisanal cheese products, on the quality and helping them sort of switch over from the imported varieties which they were so used to, to local products like ours. All of these were huge challenges that we faced along the way.

M

Malika Mish3:20:36

Right. Actually, you did point out imported cheese. You know, Indians have always taken their ghee and butter to our pride, right? We have it on our plates. But cheese somehow is assumed to be a foreign concept. Now that authentic Indian-made cheese has won an award and recognition on the global stage, do you have anything to comment on that?

M

Mossum Narang3:20:59

I see we actually have a very deep dairy tradition in our nation. So dairy is a huge part of our culture. We consume ghee, milk, chass, Indian sweets on a day-to-day basis and also a lot of paneer, which essentially is a heat-acid coagulated cheese. We also have fantastic regional cheeses from across the country like chuti, kalari, bandel, etc. Cheese in the European context, of course, has been not so widely produced in the nation in the artisanal segment for various reasons: the climatic conditions, the supply chain reasons, as we just discussed. So right now, even though the space is fairly in its nascent stages, we have a huge curiosity for artisanal cheese. The Indian urban consumer is very well traveled. They have a discerning palate. We're all digitally equalized, so they have access to the same kind of food that someone's consuming in inner city in Europe, and there's increasing curiosity for it. And that's where all of the amazing Indian artisanal cheese producers come in who are doing some amazing work, and it's amazing that it's finally being recognized on the global stage because of the craftsmanship and the quality of products that we are producing.

M

Malika Mish3:22:30

Miss Narang, according to you, what can people like you do to perhaps make this more available to the common people? Because I, for one, have not tasted what artisanal cheese tastes like or feels like, because processed cheese is so readily available in the market and is perhaps more accessible, and I'm assuming the cost of artisanal cheese is also going to be on the higher side. What can be done to make artisanal cheese as widely accepted and recognized and accessible as processed cheese is? And what's next for you and for Indian artisanal cheese on the global stage?

M

Mossum Narang3:23:09

So the reason we had processed cheese in our country is because of our climate conditions, because of the fact that it transports really well, it stays for a longer period of time. And artisanal cheese, I always like to say, is the best way to preserve milk. In our industry, they say that cheese is milk's leap towards immortality. So the best way to preserve milk in its most precious form, keeping its nutrition intact, is artisanal cheese. How do we make it accessible? I think there has to be an ecosystem around it. It has to be a multi-fold effort to correct the supply chain. There has to be awareness. Maybe potential GI tags for Indian artisanal cheese varieties so that they have the recognition that they deserve. And once all of these gaps are bridged, I think it's also important for us to have structured training courses across tertiary technology programs as far as artisanal cheese is concerned, which would then have trained experts creating more amazing products in this space. So yeah, as I said, it has to be an ecosystem and it's a multi-fold effort which will take a couple of years. But I think Prime Minister Modi's tweet yesterday is a step in the right direction and it gives all of us an impetus to sort of do that.

M

Malika Mish3:24:33

Right. What's next for you going forward in the future?

M

Mossum Narang3:24:36

I think for us, it's very important to sort of go deep rather than increase our breadth. For us, it's very important to strengthen our supply chain, to create the right kind of products, to sort of create a cheesemonger program that bridges the gap between the consumer and the producer, and explore India first.

M

Malika Mish3:24:56

Thank you. Thank you, Miss Narang, for joining us and many, many congratulations to you and your team for winning this prestigious title. Of course, this has created a conversation that wasn't happening before. That was Mossum Narang, founder of Alfaria Cheese, on NDTV Profit. But moving on to another fraud case that has been in focus. We're breaking the story at this moment. The Enforcement Directorate is conducting searches in a 145 crore rupee municipal corporation Panchkula fraud case. The ED raided 12 premises across Chandigarh, Panchkula, Zirakpur, Dabasi, and Rajpura under the Prevention of Money Laundering Act, also called PMLA. The probe stems from an ACB Panchkula FIR alleging massive embezzlement of MC funds, which is municipal corporation funds. Kotak Mahindra bank officials and a former municipal corporation officer are named in the fraud case. Investigators say fake authorization documents, forged fund migration letters, and unauthorized email IDs were used to open illegal bank accounts. Funds were diverted to private firms and routed back to bank officials and associates. So that's the update that we have on this particular fraud case. But on to, in fact, I'm being told that we'll have Shrimi Chri joining us on this shortly. But viewers, this is an important story because again, another bank involved. You have Kotak Mahindra Bank involved. And it's a fraud case worth 145 crore rupees. What we know so far is that the ED is looking into it and it is related to the PMLA act, which is Prevention of Money Laundering Act, and this is not new. If you look at our past history in the past couple of months, especially in the Haryana-Chandigarh region, we've come across multiple cases involving multiple banks in such municipal corporation related fraud cases. So a lot of money embezzlement has been seen in the past couple of months itself, and this is sort of adding to that news. So what has happened? Let me just revise until we have our reporter also joining us. 12 premises have been searched across Chandigarh, Panchkula, Zirakpur, Dabasi, and Rajpura. In fact, we have Shrimi Chrihi joining us on the phone line. Shrimi, thank you for joining. Give us more details, please.

S

Shrimi Chrihi3:27:13

Yeah, so Malika, actually this we reported a week ago when it was the first days when we reported that such kind of major action in this municipal corporation Panchkula branch where Kotak Mahindra branch is also there. So what ED statement now confirmed this and saying that as per the ED findings so far, a nexus of municipal officials, bank employees, and private individuals allegedly siphoned off government funds by opening unauthorized bank accounts in the name of municipal corporation Panchkula, and that was done using forged documents. In fact, the investigation named Dilipkumar Ragha, a customer relationship manager at the bank, and Pushpinder Singh, a deputy vice president who allegedly acted in collusion with Vikas Kaushik, a former senior account officer of the civic body. Now, ED statement also pointed out that the funds from the legitimate Panchkula account were diverted to these unauthorized accounts using fake fund migration authorization letters. And the interesting part here is that in fact, ED statement says that even Kotak Mahindra official names are also emerging in the probe and they're also kind of investigating them as well. So clearly an important action in that regard. And in fact, if you notice, it's 145 crore of what they projected the kind of fraud which has happened, and in fact, if they given the total amount of the majority value of those investment which is coming to around 160 crore, masking the diversion. Searches were conducted at premises of course including all bank officials, private persons, etc., resulting in seizure of evidence as well, is what ED statement suggests, and it also says that further investigation is underway.

M

Malika Mish3:29:07

Shrimi, just hold on. Do we know for how long this fraud case was going on? Because 145 crore is a very big amount.

S

Shrimi Chrihi3:29:16

So this municipal corporation case, it's not just included Kotak Mahindra Bank, that one branch which is there at Panchkula, it also includes two more banks. It includes the small AU Finance Bank and one more bank is there, and the total fraud amount which ED suspected somewhere in March when they started the investigation is close to 1,000 crore. Now one of these banks has been, you know, they searched and they identified and they done all sort of questioning etc. from the concerned parties etc. But what they are now doing is they are expanding the probe and trying to establish the collusion between bank officials as well as the civic body officials, the government officials, and trying to get deeper in that. So more info will emerge and that's why they hinted that the investigation is still underway.

M

Malika Mish3:30:10

Okay, quite scary. Thank you so much, Shrimi Chrihi, there for joining us with these details. Viewers, it raises a big question on the money that is saved in banks because the money is being siphoned through municipal corporations via fake accounts, and this case for instance highlights a 145 crore rupee fraud. But onto another important story. Social Cell and NDTV Profit that India's banking sector is raising concerns over a new AI system called Mythos built by Anthropic. Mythos is said to have advanced capabilities that could expose hidden vulnerabilities in banking systems. Bankers worry that the AI could access weak points in their data privacy systems and cyber security infrastructure. Since banks store sensitive information of depositors and borrowers, this raises serious risks. My colleague PJ now joins us with all the details.

P

PJ3:31:04

Banks are concerned about the abilities of Anthropic's new AI model and its ability to find vulnerabilities in almost every major operating software. The model actually found out a bug that had existed for 27 years reportedly, which was not found. Banks say that their processes, their internal processes, tech processes...

M

Malika Mish3:31:26

Right. Thank you, PJ. So that's a significant development. We'll continue to track that story. But for now, that's all the time we have on Profit 360. Thank you for watching.

P

Push3:31:28

Banks are concerned about the abilities of Anthropic's new AI model and its ability to find vulnerabilities in almost every major operating software. The model actually found a bug that had existed for 27 years reportedly, which was not found. Banks say that their processes, internal processes, tech processes, data, every aspect of their tech infrastructure, if there is any vulnerability and this model is able to spot it, then they may not have enough time to plug the loopholes. Banks are also in talks with the RBI about this and the RBI on its part is engaging with global regulators including the Bank of England and we understand the Bank of Japan is scheduled to hold a meeting soon to identify risk associated with this new AI model. Banks, as we are aware, are the most vulnerable to any cyber attack because they have a lot of data with regard to depositors' funds, related party transactions, loan dispersal, so on and so forth. Banks have a lot of APIs which are linked to fintechs and other third parties also wherein if a bug is found it can be spotted by this particular model and banks therefore are very cautious about this new development and are engaging in conversations to counter it.

H

Himakshi Bhagna3:32:28

Right, thanks so much for that Push. And viewers, that's all the time we had on this edition of Profit 360. This is Malika Mishra, keep watching this shadows.

N

Narrator3:34:29

Stainless steel, stainless steel pipes and Gindel Stainless, India's leading producer of stainless steel.

T

Tamana3:34:40

Hi, I'm Tamana. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories. What happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

N

Nidat Sha3:34:54

Hi, I'm Nidat Sha. Watch me on NDTV Profit for the most incisive market intelligence and meaningful corporate conversations.

A

Alex Matthew3:35:04

And I'm Alex Matthew. Markets, mutual funds, insurance, personal finance. I help you cut through the noise and make smarter financial choices. And here's where you can watch us.

M

Mahima Arajani3:35:31

Hello and welcome to KYC, that is Know Your Company. I'm Mahim Avachani and let's try to figure out what company we are going to decode today for our viewers as well as people who invest in a lot of stocks. But let's try to guess the company that we're going to talk about. The first one, let's try to pull up the slide and see leadership in Mangal Sutra segment. This company basically holds the leadership in terms of P2B segment in the Mangal Sutra segment. Listed on September 17th, 2025, so a fairly recent listing. The stock is up 29% from its IPO price and that's not been the case for a lot of IPOs that have been recently listed in the past six odd months. Foraying now into the gold bridal jewelry which is a high margin business and also a high value business which is going to give them leverage going forward considering the manufacturing capacity also they have. So that's the guess the company part. Let's try to understand which is the company that we are exactly talking about. We are talking about Shingar House of Mangal Sutra. With regards to this company, what it does and what is exactly the manufacturing capacity and the exact flow of manufacturing for this one. Basically it specializes in design, production, distribution of Mangal Sutra both in terms of B2B and it also gives it to retailers. So 15 distinct collections and more than 10,000 active SKUs is what the company has in terms of only Mangal Sutras right now. In terms of prominent customers, big names are there: Titan, Reliance Retail, Nova Juri, Joel Lucas, Malaba Gold, all of these are the clients for Shingar House. Now the company also serves 34 corporate clients, 1,089 wholesalers and 81 retailers. So it's a complete B2B business that it does in Mangal Sutras. The company is focusing now on high value added jewelry segment going forward. And in terms of where the capacity goes, it has around 2,500 kg per annum capacity and also has an integrated manufacturing facility. So completely in-house manufacturing is what it has and that too an integrated one. In terms of the key news coming in, I think an astute investor sir has acquired five lakh shares on 22nd of April. So this was a big news coming in. That's why we saw movement in the stock price as well. The company is now diversifying into gold bridal jewelry like I mentioned earlier. It's a high value business and high margin business as well. And in terms of where the other news aspect is concerned, the company is also shifting its manufacturing capacity from lower peril to Kandi Valley, so that's also another news to keep in focus. Now in terms of how the industry is faring, overall India's wholesale gold jewelry as per data from various sources says the segment is expected to reach around 48,900 crore by calendar year 29 and this suggests a CAGR growth of anywhere between 9 to 10 percent. And this is the CAGR growth that we are talking about from calendar year 24 to 29. So that's the CAGR growth at which the entire industry is growing but the company is growing at a much faster pace. Now strong HNI interest is also there in the counter and in terms of volumes as well we've seen good growth coming in as to where the share price action is concerned. Strong distribution network is helping it in cross-selling also going forward when it diversifies into high value and high margin business of bridal jewelry. And the other reason as to why it is in a sweet spot is because larger order wins are expected from corporate clients going forward once it diversifies plus its existing business as well. And the company is targeting the unorganized sector and underserved tier 2 to tier 4 market. So I think the focus more right now is from tier 2 to tier 4 markets and that will give the company an overall leverage going forward in terms of its distribution and selling opportunities. Now let's try to take a look at what are the parameters that we're going to talk about in this segment. The first one that we are going to pick up is the income statement followed by balance sheet, then cash flow, and then return ratios, and then we're also going to talk about how the shareholding pattern is for the company followed by street cred as to how the account has performed so far since listing, valuation metrics, as well as what's the outlook going forward. And then we'll also be speaking to the management of the company to understand what the outlook of the company looks like. But let's start talking about the first parameter, the income statement. We'll be speaking to Virat Padeshwar who's the ED and CEO of Shingar House of Mangal Sutra going forward, but let's start talking about the parameters, the income statement first. Now if you take a look at the last three-year CAGR growth in terms of where revenues stand, it's been a strong growth of 21%. EBITDA growing at almost 45% three-year CAGR and net profit has seen a growth of 46% CAGR. A lot of this growth in the past two years has also come in with rising gold prices. Because of gold prices going up, we've seen a lot of value growth coming in. But we'll try to understand from the management as to how volume growth has also fared. Now, because we've seen strong CAGR growth in the past 3 years, we've given it a thumbs up. In the past 9 months also, the company has done fairly well. Revenue growth of 41% year-on-year basis. For EBITDA growth it's even stronger as compared to how its year CAGR has been, a 65% growth, and net profit growth at 76%, much better as compared to what it's done in the past 3 years. In terms of margins, I think this is where the pain point is because margins have been reducing for them, but foraying into other segments might improve their margins going forward. So that's with regards to where the income statement goes. But let's try to take a look at the balance sheet aspect as well as to how the balance sheet has been in the past five odd years. From a perspective of share capital, we've seen that it got listed recently in September 25. And in terms of reserves, they've been growing in the past 3 years from 128 crore to almost an increase of 500 odd. So they've been reserving whatever profits they're making. In terms of total equity, that aspect has also gone up because of reserves going up. Borrowings have also slightly increased. So we try and understand from the management as to why these borrowings have gone up and this is largely on account of both short-term and long-term, short-term largely on account of working capital. But we'll try to understand what the repayment plans are looking like. Cash and bank balance is an area of concern. And we'll try to ask the management if there is any fundraising on the cards considering the expansion that they're planning because overall cash balance has remained in that range of just 3 to 4 odd crore. So that's with regards to where the balance sheet goes. Now let's try to pull up the cash flow statement as well. This is the third metric that we are going to talk about. In terms of cash flow statement, cash flow from operations has turned negative in FY25 and has also stayed negative in September 25. And considering 9 months at a negative 7%, the year will also close at that negative number as well. But overall PAT has seen a good increase but cash flow to PAT ratio has been on a negative footing. So that is an area of concern. We'll also speak to management about it. But overall even net cash flows has been on a negative footing and that's why we've given it a thumbs down. Now let's try to pull up the return ratios aspect and see as to how they have been. A healthy return ratio has been largely maintained in that range of 20 to 24%. So your ROCE has been stable and has been at that 24% mark in the last 3 to 4 odd years. So I think there's no area of concern here and we've simply given it a thumbs up when it comes to the return ratios. Now let's try to see the street cred of this company as to how the company has done when it comes to the share performance since its listing. But before we talk about that, let's try to take a look at the shareholding pattern as well. There is skin in the game when it comes to the promoters because promoters have been constantly holding 75% into this counter and it doesn't look like they're going to reduce their holding. But FI holding, there is FI interest coming in from a 4% just during listing, it's gone up to 6% in just a matter of two quarters. DIIs of course have been selling and FIIs have been buying. So from a 4% in September 25, DII holding has come down to around 2 odd percent. Public holding remains fairly stable around that 17 to 20% mark. As of March 26, it stood at 17 odd percent. So that's with regards to how shareholding goes. But there's skin in the game and that is why we've given a thumbs up. Let's try to pull up the street cred like I was talking about. From the life of course it's down 19% and this is considering the way markets have moved in the last couple of months, but overall from its IPO price it's up 29%. And from 2026 low it's up 26%. So there is gain coming in from 2026 low as well and that is showing high investor interest in this counter. Just to point out here that IPOs in the recent past 6-8 months have not done very well as compared to that, at least this IPO has seen gains of 29% versus its issue price. So that's with regards to where street cred goes. Let's try to pull up the valuation. This is an interesting aspect because overall if you take a look at the valuations of all these jewelers, Titan is trading at 80 times PE right now, Tangamay at 49 times, Kalyan Jewellers at 36 times, and this as compared to Shingar just trading at 21 times. So valuations as compared to where peers are concerned is much more attractive for something like Shingar House of Mangal Sutra. And considering that it's growing at a very fast pace at a very good CAGR, the valuations right now are justified at where they stand. Let's try to then look at how the outlook of the company looks like in the coming years and near future as well. They are diversifying into gold bridal jewelry and that's certainly a thumbs up because like I said it's a high value, high margin business which is certainly going to benefit the margins for the company. Plus it's targeting the unorganized sector that is tier 2 to tier 4 where there's a lot of unorganized sector playing its part. Organizing it is going to definitely benefit the company. Third party facilitators are onboarded to drive scale from here on and that is something that is going to augur growth for the company going forward as well. Lastly, in terms of where the outlook stands in terms of expanding, the company is planning to expand to five cities and has identified more for further roll out as well. So the company is not just planning to diversify into segments, also planning to expand in terms of where geographies are concerned, plus it's also building a strong presence when it comes to their overall presence. But this of course is with regards to where the outlook goes. Let's try to now see as to how the cumulative ratings look like of all the eight parameters that we talked about. The first one being income statement. We've given a thumbs up. Good CAGR growth all in terms of revenue, EBITDA as well as net profit. Margins of course still a concern but overall. Balance sheet is a thumbs down because cash position is at a very thin lining plus there's borrowings which is growing. So we talked to management about that. Cash flow we've seen negative cash flow in FY25, operating cash flow negative in FY25 as is as of September ending as well and that's why we've given it a thumbs down. Return ratio is very positive, very healthy near that 22 to 24% mark. So giving it a thumbs up. Shareholding also a thumbs up because there's skin in the game. 75% held by promoters plus FI seeing an increase in stake. Street cred is slightly a thumbs down because overall if you take a look at the picture as to how it's off from the high point, we've seen some pressure coming in the stock. Valuation is definitely a thumbs up, much better as compared to where the peers go and that's why we've given it thumbs up. And outlook most certainly a positive one because the company's planning to expand into segments as well as geographies. So the total rating that we've given this counter is five out of eight. So that's the overall rating of how Shingar House of Mangal Sutra goes. But let's try to get the management in as well. We are now joined by the management. Sir, my first question to you with regards to what we talked about, we've been talking about how significant growth you've seen in the past three odd years. I just wanted to first understand as to now that you're trying to foray into this bridal jewelry that we talked about, it's a high value business plus high margin business as well if I'm not wrong. What is the foray looking like? What are the plans to grow the segment as a whole?

V

Virat Teshwar3:49:03

Hi, good morning. So you the point about the bridal jewelry. So as you know we have been in the Mangal Sutra segment for over decades and for us to grow, being a Mangal Sutra it is the most key product in a bridal jewelry. So for us to grow in this segment, bridal jewelry was the must do point because the customers we have, currently we are having more than a thousand customers who are constantly consistently working with us and we are growing with them and these customers are not only just unorganized players but giants and organized players as well. So in the whole entire process of growing, even these customers are growing big and we want to grow with them. So Mangal Sutra is a key product for us. But to grow multiple times, we have to increase our product categories. So bridal category was a big demand from our customers to us as they are seeing good rise in bridal jewelry category. So we have already started developing and selling bridal jewelry in the market and we are in tie-ups with all the big jewelers, the corporates, the single chain stores and single stores. So bridal jewelry if we talk, it's more than 40% to 45% of the total jewelry market. So that is a big jump we are looking at and with the existing customers we are hoping and we are positive that it will give us a very good boost in terms of growth and in terms of profit returns as well.

M

Mahima Arajani3:50:48

Okay. Virat, with regards to where your overall margins are concerned, they've been slowly and steadily growing but wanted to get a sense considering that the gold prices have shot up a lot with the overall condition in the West Asia conflict as well. Where do you see your margins going? Plus you're entering the bridal jewelry space. What are the margins going to look like going forward? Is there going to be a steady pace of growth going forward or they going to be in that range of 6 to 7%?

V

Virat Teshwar3:51:21

So when we talk about bridal jewelry, of course it is a high profit fetching category. So the other reason also to get into bridal jewelry is that the industry is growing, the category is growing and with the new manufacturing setup we have just recently started, we are looking at producing much more high value products which can fetch us more profit. And with the new setup we have not only increased the production capacity but we have also increased the quality of the product, the range of the product and the high range of the product, which can fetch us better margins and also give our customers a better quality and a top-notch product.

M

Mahima Arajani3:52:02

Virat, with regards to where your capacity utilizations go, they've dropped a tad bit in FY25 as compared to where they were in FY24 if I'm not wrong. What are the capacity utilizations looking like right now and going forward in FY27, what is the expectations in terms of how they will fare?

V

Virat Teshwar3:52:23

So when you talk about the capacity utilization, I think it was nearly a production capacity utilization was nearly around 70% in the previous years and with the new setup coming in, we have almost doubled our capacity, not only just that, at the same time we have increased another category with a new manufacturing setup. So we are looking at bigger volumes, bigger sales and majority utilization of the capacity. And with the existing customers, the name of the customers you see and the growth they are showing, so I'm really positive that the growth ratio is going to be maintained and it is going to increase in future as well.

M

Mahima Arajani3:53:08

Got it. Virat, with regards to your borrowings, the long-term borrowings have reduced to quite an extent, right? They're almost negligible right now. But in terms of short-term borrowings, I reckon that this is on account of your working capital requirements. But this is compared to where your cash net cash flow position stands at right now and cash balance basically where it stands right now. Do you think that going forward to maybe fund your working capital requirements or maybe fund your expansion, you'll be needing funds? So are you looking for any fund raise going forward?

V

Virat Teshwar3:53:40

So currently we are going phase by phase. We are not going to rush into borrowings a lot right for now. But as you know the working capital we require with the increase in gold rate, the more the rate increases the more capital we require. So currently looking at the existing working capital, I feel that we are more than ready for the market and for the current season and ongoing business processes as well. So in future I am not too sure about increasing of borrowings but yes, to increase revenue and profits in the existing working capital that has been a key motto for us right now.

M

Mahima Arajani3:54:24

Okay. And what is the store expansion plans looking like going forward in terms of the growth plans going forward in FY27?

V

Virat Teshwar3:54:32

So as you know that in last few months we have added two new stores, one in Delhi, one in Pune and Bombay which is a key main corporate store which we have. So currently we are in the process of more increasing the revenue and scaling up in the existing stores only and probably once we achieve that hopefully this year or probably next financial year we are planning further more stores coming up. But at the same time not only expansion through stores but also through facilitators module which means that we by not opening stores but to also make our reach in that particular city or that particular state using that module. We are aggressively going towards that and if we see a potential in another city so hopefully we may plan and also go ahead for other cities and more stores.

M

Mahima Arajani3:55:32

Virat, with regards to where your growth is concerned, how much of it is coming from value growth versus volume growth because prices of gold have really gone up right. So what's the kind of volume growth that you've seen in FY26 and going forward what is the kind of growth that you're penciling in for FY27?

V

Virat Teshwar3:55:53

So definitely the focus has been volume growth for us because value growth is definitely there and we can see it in the flowing numbers over the years with the gold rate increasing. But the main focus for us is volume growth also. So we are dedicatedly, our entire team, let it be the sales team which we have been increasing, the entire management team, the manufacturing team, so to make it more organized and more productive we are working towards how to increase the volume growth also. So the bridal category which we have introduced lately, that will be a key point for us in volume growth and we are expecting a good volume from this new category.

M

Mahima Arajani3:56:45

Virat, with regards to where gold prices go considering the volatility in gold prices, what is the hedging strategy in place right now? How much of hedging do you do and how do you cover yourself against that volatility?

V

Virat Teshwar3:56:58

Yes, we have always been following a hedging policy and we are going to maintain it at the same place because in such a volatile market we want to focus more on production and sales rather than focusing on any other aspect. So the hedging policy is maintained. Currently we are having a 40% hedging policy and that is going to be maintained and we will keep up to it.

M

Mahima Arajani3:57:24

Virat, as per recent developments coming in, there was gold imports that were stuck because of a new DGFT coming in. What's the progress that's happened there now? Have the gold imports a easy free flow or is gold still stuck there and any impact on your business because of that?

V

Virat Teshwar3:57:41

So being in jewelry since a very long time, since several decades, the channel we follow for material procuring, we don't rely on only one source. We have several sources from where we procure our gold bullion. So we never saw any big challenge coming in in terms of procuring raw material or gold. So because of the system we follow, because of the multiple channels we follow for our supply and we depend on them, it has never been a challenge for us.

M

Mahima Arajani3:58:14

And with regards to the West Asia conflict, any exposure that you have in Middle East, has that been impacted at all?

V

Virat Teshwar3:58:23

So of course in the last one month we have seen Middle East being disturbed. But Shringar being, our 98% of the revenue comes only from India, so we are mainly dependent on India and only 2% comes from abroad. So of course there has been certain disturbance but at the same time we have seen a seasonal growth in the same period which we see right now. There's been an Akshaya Tritiya season recently. So that has been a very key season and a good season I would say as I saw a good flow of customers coming in. So maybe it's all covered up because my focus has always been, Shringar's focus has always been the domestic market. But of course we are focusing on overseas market as well. So not only UAE, currently we are supplying to US, we are supplying to UK, we're supplying to New Zealand and several other countries. So the exposure is so vast that the volume compensation comes from all over the country and from outside.

M

Mahima Arajani3:59:30

And Virat, what is the ratio like right now in terms of your exports versus your domestic sales and how will that dynamics change going forward?

V

Virat Teshwar3:59:41

See like I mentioned, 98% comes from the domestic market. But now with the new category coming in, it will be a very key point and a strong point for us to step into overseas market as we will now be able to go to our customers with a vast range, not just only Mangal Sutra but other categories as well. So that will 100% I feel help us penetrate better in the market and get more and more volumes and sales from our customers. So the new category will not only increase in India but also from overseas.

M

Mahima Arajani4:00:18

Okay Virat, thank you so much for helping us answer all those questions and that too so candidly and of course taking out the time and speaking with us at NDTV Profit. All right. So viewers, you heard the management. That was Viraj Tareshwari, the ED and CEO of Shingar House of Mangal Sutra. But with that, completely out of time on this edition of KYC. But do stay tuned for more news updates on the other side.

N

Narrator4:01:23

Stainless steel, stainless steel, India's leading producer of stainless steel.

T

Tamana4:01:34

Hi, I'm Tamana. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories. What happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

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Ned Sha4:01:48

Hi, I'm Ned Sha. Watch me on NDTV Profit for the most incisive market intelligence and meaningful corporate conversations.

A

Alex Matthew4:01:58

And I'm Alex Matthew. Markets, mutual funds, insurance, personal finance. I help you cut through the noise and make smarter financial choices. And here's where you can watch us.

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Narrator4:02:19

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With a table buy.

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Narrator4:03:28

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H

Himakshi Bhagna4:05:38

Hello and welcome viewers. You're watching Market Express and I'm Himakshi Bhagna. Let's get straight into the show and see how the markets have fared today. So, Dalal Street ended a choppy session deep in the red as selling pressure dominated through the day. The Sensex has slipped over 800 points while the Nifty has closed below the 24,200 mark. Weak global cues and profit taking kept the investors pretty cautious. And here's the rupee weakened further today, falling 33 paise to close at 94.11 against the US dollar, extending its losing streak to a fourth straight session. And the move was driven by a sharp rise in the crude oil prices, continued foreign fund outflows and even growing uncertainty around the Middle East peace talks. So the currency has now lost nearly 1.3% over the past four sessions with 94 mark breached for the second time this month. And let's now look at some key earnings. Infosys has reported a strong March quarter with net profit rising 21% year-on-year to 8,51 crores while revenue grew 13.4% to 46,42 crores. The board has also recommended a final dividend of 25 rupees per share with June 10 fixed as the record date. Now despite the better than expected quarter, the street will closely track the company's FY27 revenue growth guidance of 1.5 to 3.5% in constant currency terms which remains relatively cautious and management highlighted continued traction in the AI-led deals and even large transformation wins. Next counter in focus is Adani Energy Solutions which has reported a steady March quarter with consolidated net profit rising 5.7% year-on-year to 684 crores. Revenue from operations grew 16.8% to 7,443 crores reflecting continued momentum across its transmission, distribution and even smart metering businesses. And keeping with the earnings momentum, we have Mahindra Logistics which has reported a return to profit in the March quarter with margins also showing improvement according to its latest earnings update. And the company has also announced a dividend signaling confidence in the cash flows and even shareholder returns. The quarter reflects improving operational performance supported by better cost efficiencies and also recovery in the core logistics demand. Let's look at Scient which has reported a stronger March quarter with both revenue and profit showing growth while the board has also approved 720 crores of share buyback. Now this buyback announced alongside quarter 4 FY26 results is aimed at enhancing the shareholder returns and even signals management confidence in the company's cash position and long-term value. We have LTI Mindtree now which has reported a strong March quarter with net profit rising 43.4% to 1392 crores while revenue has increased 4.7% to 11,292 crores. Now the company has also announced a final dividend of 53 rupees per share with investors now tracking the record date and even the payout timeline. While profit growth was strong, margins have remained under pressure with EBITDA margin narrowing to 15.1% from 16.1% in the previous quarter. And viewers, next counter in focus is Indian Energy Exchange which has reported a steady March quarter with net profit rising 11% year-on-year to 130 crores. Revenue from operations grew 22.5% to 174 crores and this has been supported by stronger transaction volumes and also improved operating performance. Now the company has also announced a final dividend of 2 rupees per share with record date set for May 15. Now EBITDA rose 23% to 149 crores while margins remain strong at 85.7%. Next counter in focus is UTI Asset Management. So the company has reported a sharp drop in its March quarter profit with net profit falling about 73% year-on-year while revenue remained largely flat. Despite the weaker earnings, the board has announced a dividend of 40 rupees per share, keeping the shareholder returns in focus. So the sharp decline in the profitability is likely to keep the stock under watch especially as investors assess the pressure on margins and also fee income trends. Viewers, next counter in focus is Union Bank of India which has posted a 7% rise in the fourth quarter profit but the street wasn't impressed. So shares have slipped nearly 7% after core performance was disappointing. Net interest income has declined 1% year-on-year while margins have narrowed sequentially. Higher provisions and rising credit cost also weighed on the sentiment. While asset quality has improved and headline profit was aided by other income, concerns around core earnings momentum continue to cloud the outlook. Next counter in focus is Oracle Financial Services which has posted a steady fourth quarter with a sharp improvement in margins lifting the bottom line. So revenue has seen a mid-single digit rise helped by favorable currency movement and the company has also reported a sequential rise in the remaining performance obligations pointing to improved revenue visibility ahead. So overall margins and deal momentum stand out as key positives this quarter. And here's J Kumar Infra, the company in focus as the shares have jumped over 6% after the company announced fresh orders worth 2,487 crores in Mumbai. So the contracts include a 521.7 crore metro link pedestrian connectivity project from Mumbai Metro Rail Corporation and also a larger 1,965 crore road and bridge project from the Municipal Corporation of Greater Mumbai. So J Kumar's effective share in the joint venture road contract stands at about 1,435 crores given its 73% stake. We have InterGlobe Aviation now which is the parent of IndiGo. It has received a warning letter from the DGCA related to air charges during December. So the aviation regulator has advised the airline to exercise caution and also strictly adhere to government orders on pricing and even passenger protection norms. So the DGCA also noted that the company has already taken corrective measures including completing the required refunds. And the government clears the use of cleaner alternative fuels in aviation by allowing a blending of synthetic hydrocarbons and jet fuel. In simple terms, this opens the door for sustainable aviation fuel or SAF to be officially used alongside conventional ATF. Now SAF is made from waste oils and farm residue, also helps cut aviation emissions but comes at a higher cost. So the move also creates fresh opportunities for sugar and ethanol linked players such as TruAlt Bio Energy and also Praj Industries as India moves towards greener aviation. Dabur India has announced a key leadership change with Hjit Bala taking over as a chief executive officer for its India business. And this appointment comes as the FMCG major sharpens focus on domestic growth, portfolio expansion and even distribution execution. Shares of Bharat Cooking Coal slid over 5% in today's session after the company reported a sharp earnings decline for the March quarter. So quarter 4 net profit plunged nearly 60% year-on-year to just 27 crore rupees and this has been hurt by weak operating performance. So revenue also fell 15% to 3,282 crore rupees and this sharp miss has raised concerns around volumes, cost pressures and also near-term operational recovery at the Coal India subsidiary. Next counter in focus is GE Vernova which has rallied sharply after posting strong results with shares jumping in global trade. The company also raises its margin guidance signaling improving operating performance. Management has said that global demand remains strong driven by continued investments in power and energy transition. Now hosiery stocks buzz in trade today with sharp gains seen across names like Lux Rupa and also Dollar Industries. Now the rally is driven by strong summer demand expectations and also hopes of better volume growth ahead. Now recent price hikes in innerwear especially in southern markets are also expected to roll out across the other regions. That being said, longer-term growth and valuation remain mixed across the space, keeping the stock specific action firmly in focus. And Warner Brothers Discovery shareholders have approved the $110 billion merger with Paramount Sky Dance, clearing a major hurdle for one of Hollywood's biggest consolidation deals. And the transaction including debt is set to combine marquee assets such as HBO Max, CNN, CBS, and Paramount Plus, significantly reshaping the global media landscape. And shareholders are also set to receive $31 per share in cash, which is a substantial premium to the unaffected stock price. And the Enforcement Directorate has conducted searches in the 145 crore Municipal Corporation Panchula fraud case. Now raids were carried out at 12 locations across Chandigarh, Panchula, Zirakpur, Dera Bassi and also Rajpura under the PMLA and incriminating documents have been seized. Now according to the ED, fake authorization papers were used to open unauthorized bank accounts while forged fund migration letters helped divert the civic funds. Now this agency has specifically flagged an alleged nexus involving municipal officials, Kotak Mahindra bank officials and private persons with funds allegedly routed back to a bank official and associates. And the government has said that there is no proposal to raise petrol and diesel prices even as state-run oil companies continue to sell below cost. According to the oil ministry, public sector fuel retailers are losing nearly 100 rupees per liter on diesel and about 20 rupees per liter on petrol at current global crude prices. So the clarification comes amid market speculation of a possible post-election fuel price hike. And the government has notified the rules for the online gaming act with implementation set to begin from May 1st. The new framework aims to regulate online real money gaming platforms ensuring player protection and even curb illegal betting activities. Now key provisions include mandatory registration of platforms, age verification and also responsible gaming measures. Now the rules also introduce a self-regulatory mechanism for the industry. Officials said that the move will bring transparency and accountability to the fast growing online gaming sector while safeguarding the users from addiction and also financial risks. And in a tragic news, Bikaji Foods International founder and chairman Shivratan Agarwal has passed away at the age of 75. The veteran entrepreneur built the popular namkeen and sweets brand from a small shop in Bikaner, Rajasthan into a national player. Now under his leadership, Bikaji grew into one of India's largest organized snack food companies with a strong presence across the country and the company expressed deep sorrow and said that his vision and values will continue to guide the organization. And WhatsApp users in India can now recharge prepaid mobile plans for Jio and Vodafone Idea directly within the app without switching platforms. So the feature is aimed at making everyday utility payments more seamless by integrating mobile top-ups into the messaging interface. Now users can select their operator, choose a prepaid plan and also complete the payment inside WhatsApp itself. So the move expands WhatsApp's push into payments and utility services beyond peer-to-peer messaging. And India's rice exports have declined 7.5% to 11.53 billion in the financial year 2025-26. Now according to commerce ministry data, the drop was mainly due to reduced shipments to major destinations particularly in the Middle East. Now the exports in March alone fell 15.36% to 997.53 million. Shipments to key markets including Iran, UAE, Saudi Arabia and Oman were significantly impacted by the ongoing conflict and Iran remains India's largest basmati rice export destination and also disruptions in the region have affected the overall export performance. And where Nokia has reported a stronger than expected first quarter with adjusted operating profit coming in at 281 million euros ahead of street estimates of about 244 million euros. Now the beat was driven by rising demand from AI and cloud customers with the company booking 1 billion euros in orders from these segments during the quarter. So while overall sales were slightly below estimates at 4.5 billion euros, the company has said that its AI and data center pivot is beginning to deliver results and shares have risen as much as 8% following the earnings announcement touching about a 16-year high. And on to the ongoing elections, Tamil Nadu has voted today with the election commission reporting an estimated 82.24% turnout by 5:00 p.m. Now, there were the usual early cues, parties trying to mobilize the voters and also the pollsters outside school serving as polling booths. Yet, beneath the routine scenes lay something newer. A contest in which actor-politician Vijay has introduced a spark. Now the ruling DMK has entered polling day with what many across parties privately described as an etched base on incumbency, welfare delivery and even a broad alliance and advantages of state power. Now the AIADMK led by Edapadi DK Palani Swami hoped anti-incumbency and alliance arithmetic could really narrow that advantage. And viewers, India's banking system is facing a new kind of risk not from hackers alone but from advanced artificial intelligence and sources are telling NDTV Profit that India's banking sector is raising concerns over a new AI system called Mythor OS. Now this is built by Anthropic. Mythos is set to have advanced capabilities that could expose the hidden vulnerabilities in the banking systems and bankers worry that the AI could really access the weak points in their data privacy systems and even cyber security infrastructure since banks store sensitive information of the depositors and even borrowers. So this raises serious risk. My colleague Push is joining us with all the details.

P

Push4:21:28

Banks are concerned about the abilities of Anthropic's new AI model and its ability to find vulnerabilities in almost every major operating software. The model actually found a bug that had existed for 27 years reportedly, which was not found. Banks say that their processes, internal processes, tech processes, data, every aspect of their tech infrastructure, if there is any vulnerability and this model is able to spot it, then they may not have enough time to plug the loopholes. Banks are also in talks with the RBI about this and the RBI on its part is engaging with global regulators including the Bank of England and we understand the Bank of Japan is scheduled to hold a meeting soon to identify risk associated with this new AI model. Banks, as we are aware, are the most vulnerable to any cyber attack because they have a lot of data with regard to depositors' funds, related party transactions, loan dispersal, so on and so forth. Banks have a lot of APIs which are linked to fintechs and other third parties also wherein if a bug is found it can be spotted by this particular model and banks therefore are very cautious about this new development and are engaging in conversations to counter it.

H

Himakshi Bhagna4:22:53

Absolutely Push. In fact, DFS Secretary M. Nagaraju has said that Mythos is a threat and an opportunity for the fintech ecosystem. According to sources, the finance minister has also met with banks on Mythos threat concern. Listen in as he mentioned this case at a FICCI event in New Delhi.

M

M. Nagaraju4:23:12

Everybody is talking about it. That is also another both threat as well as opportunity for the fintech industry to experiment what actually can be done to address this. We have three strategic outcomes for Vision 2030. We all clear that I think growth alone will not be enough for the country. What we need is growth that is deeply financed, widely accessible and sustainably supported.

H

Himakshi Bhagna4:23:41

So viewers, with banking now deeply digital and interconnected, the big question is whether our systems are truly ready for AI-led threats and even what does this really mean for you and me as a customer. Joining me now to decode this is Jasp Singh, a partner at Grant Thornton Bharat. Welcome to the show Jaspreet.

J

Jasp Singh4:24:01

Thank you for having me here.

H

Himakshi Bhagna4:24:02

Yes. So Jaspreet, given your work in risk advisory and governance, how seriously should Indian banking customers take this emerging AI threat? Because sources indicate that both the finance ministry and the RBI are actively assessing risk around Mythos and banks have been asked to take preemptive steps. So from a risk advisory standpoint, does this signal that AI is now being treated as a systemic threat to financial stability and not just a cyber security issue?

J

Jasp Singh4:24:33

A very pertinent question. I think banks and the entire fintech ecosystem, BFSI ecosystem should take it very, very seriously. Earlier what other systems could do was to look at vulnerabilities, take 30 days, 60 days to find out vulnerabilities in systems and to stage attacks on complex banking applications would take days, like a 32-step process. With this entire Mythos thing developed by Claude, it can actually be done within days, matter of few days, maybe 2 days, 3 days, right? And vulnerabilities that have been non-exposed for maybe last 20 years.

S

Speaker 14:25:20

Mythos can not only bring that but they can exploit that vulnerability which could actually bring the entire ecosystem down to its knees. And this can really be worrying from a national security perspective.

S

Speaker 24:25:35

So from a risk consulting perspective, how different is this threat compared to traditional cyber attacks we've seen so far? Does an AI system like Mythos really change the scale, speed, or sophistication of potential attacks? Which of these worries you the most right now?

S

Speaker 14:25:55

You've answered this question all three. What is a traditional cyber security attack look like? I enter an organization, I land into an organization which is called a landing point. From there I move laterally within the organization. It could take me days. According to a Gartner report, it takes 200 days to be silently active in the system before a data breach has been found out. Now imagine this 200 days being crunched into maybe 20 hours. How will the internal systems be ready to respond from a speed perspective, from an agility perspective, and from a scale perspective? All three would have to be looked in conjunction. I don't think anybody, and that is why it's not only India but global regulators are also taking deep steps to make sure that before this comes out in public, all these safeguards are already put in place. That's why in fact when it was launched on 7th of April by Anthropic, they discontinued it and they launched a product called Glass Wing in which they've given this only to 11 companies to test and see the power.

S

Speaker 24:27:15

So are banks realistically equipped today to identify and also fix such vulnerabilities in real time?

S

Speaker 14:27:26

Yes, our banking system is quite robust and banks and the entire tech ecosystem is capable enough of fixing vulnerabilities in real time. But this kind of scale has not been heard, not been tested before. So before this entire piece of Mythos becomes available for public use, because it's very dangerous if it falls in the wrong hands, it is imperative that major government institutions, banks, payment, digital payment infrastructure test this before this is rolled out to everybody.

S

Speaker 24:28:02

Yes. So testing is key here. Thank you so much for breaking that down for our viewers and being there with us on the show today. So clearly viewers, the risks are evolving, so must the safeguards both at the system level and even for the customers. Premium motorcycle maker Classic Legends has launched the Yezdi motorcycle. Part of the model marks the return of the third and final variant in the brand and it is priced at two lakh rupees. The bike is designed to feel quick and agile and it also gets the shortest wheelbase in category at 1400 and 1404 mm for better turning ability and even sharp response. So the setup is focused on a strong low and mid-range performance. My colleague Ryma spoke to Anupan Taja, co-founder of Classic Legends. Let's listen into that conversation.

R

Ryma4:29:02

Anup, I want to start by asking you what is the significance of this launch for Classic Legends and what is the USP of both the bikes?

A

Anupan Taja4:29:11

Every launch is significant. So I'm not, you're asking me to pick my favorite finger. I'm not going to do that. But I think for me this is important because I think this category, this segment, this format can do to motorcycles what SUVs did to the passenger vehicle segment. But to my mind, adventure scrambler are the SUVs of motorcycle and this is the SUVs of the bike segment we are launching and we are causing double trouble. So we are coming from both sides. We are coming from a 650 cc BSA which is a true Brit and we are coming from a brat motorcycle called Yezdi. So I think these bikes, as you rightly probably would have picked up, is a combination of a great product, lay on that design, and lay on that the mischievous brands we have than the way we are building. So a combination of design, brand, and performance. And then you tempt people with an introductory price which we have given at 1 lakh 99,000 on this and 3 lakh 24,000 on that on BSA. Makes all the difference I hope to our customers who anyway love us and love our brands.

S

Speaker 24:30:14

And viewers on that note, it's a wrap on this edition of Market Express. Stay tuned to NDTV Profit for more news and updates.

T

Tamana4:32:06

Hi, I'm Tamana. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories. What happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

N

Nidat Sha4:32:20

Hi, I'm Nidat Sha. Watch me on NDTV Profit for the most incisive market intelligence and meaningful corporate conversations.

A

Alex Matthew4:32:30

And I'm Alex Matthew. Markets, mutual funds, insurance, personal finance. I help you cut through the noise and make smarter financial choices. And here's where you can watch us.

N

Narrator4:32:51

He has been tracking markets for over a decade. Spots the trends before they hit the screen and he is now bringing his analysis to the show that the market watches. Watch Shah Dubet on Know Your Company. A show that puts the most traded stocks under the scanner. We dissect the company so that you the investor don't have to. Get the management to answer questions relevant to you. Watch Know Your Company weekdays at 11:30 a.m. to understand your next big bet.

New year panel. India market open now in its boldest lineup. This is where the trends get tested and stocks get conviction. I'll recommend a buy call on a stock only when I'm fully convinced on the stock with a table by and when the street wants the levels he brings the chart. Charts speak the truth and I deliver the levels with no frills. Paragtakar and Kosh Bhora are now part of the morning.

V

Vicramos4:34:49

Good evening. I'm Vicramos on the big question here on NDTV Profit. Tonight, we're taking on two debates shaping everyday India. The first one is right there. As India tightens the screws on online gambling but loosens the rules for gaming startups, there are consumers who are being left exposed even as these startups are getting a boost. Which is why the one big question tonight and later of course the other big question is this one. Everyone seems to be talking about it. It has gone viral on social media where one lady has unleashed her wrath at a protest rally in Mumbai for holding up traffic during that march. And the question we're asking is when political rallies bring cities to a standstill like this one that happened, should citizens be forced to pay the price? Those are the two big questions. But up front, let's bring up the first debate. And there it is. From the 1st of May, India's online gaming rules 2026, they will officially kick in and they draw a sharp line in the sand. Online real money games are now explicitly banned. Banks and payment gateways can be directed to block transactions and a new Online Gaming Authority of India, the OGAI, becomes the nodal regulator. But here is where it gets a little more interesting. The government is calling this entire regulation light. The framework they're saying is a light framework. Most non-money games, whether they're casual or social games, they will not require mandatory registration or even prior determination. Esports gets a formal statutory regime with certifications that are valid for 10 years, which means it goes up from the 5 years that was the case earlier. And the rules do mandate strong user safety features. So, age verification, parental controls, time limits, grievance redressal, addiction support, all of that. And yet, critics are asking this. With the minimal oversight and the deemed approvals, is self-regulation enough, especially when free-to-play games can still influence behavior. Which is why tonight we're asking this big question. Now that we're seeing this boost for startups, now that is growing up because of the kind of framework that we have for online gaming. Is that increasing the risk for consumers? Let's take it across to our panel and let me introduce you to them. Joining us on the show today is Akshhata Rati. He's co-founder and managing director of Nwin Gaming. It's one of India's many esports and gaming companies. He joins us on the show. And on the other side of that debate, Nachiket K. Yagnik, the managing associate at Creda Legal, head of the gaming team is joining us as well. Good to have you both with us. Ax Rati, you know, if most non-money games now operate under deemed approval with little upfront vetting, you think we're effectively asking users to discover harm first themselves and then complain instead of preventing it at the design stage.

A

Akshhata Rati4:37:49

I think the best way to go out and answer this is the government's gone and said this is a piece of software, right? And whether you have ChatGPT, whether you have OpenAI and Anthropic, whether you're using Microsoft Excel, whether you use any other software, the government is basically saying a game if it is not an esport and it is not in real money gaming, which are the two outlying conditions, it is a piece of software and you should go ahead and be able to go ahead and try it. They've also gone and said if it goes and becomes big and if it goes and causes harm which they have kept it as a little discretionary for them they can go ahead and tell you to go ahead and stop it. But what they've done is to take the two big things and remove it from the equation which is esports and real money gaming.

V

Vicramos4:38:33

What do you say, Nach? These blanket bans on real money gaming have historically pushed users towards unsafe offshore platforms. So isn't a regulation light regime like the one that we have now for the domestic startups actually the lesser of the two consumer risks?

N

Nachiket K. Yagnik4:38:50

No. So essentially what the rules do is that they mandate that or like Ax said earlier all non-social games, the non-money fortune games will have to be, are allowed to be operated without any registration unless and until there are certain factors such as harm and all. But the banning of online money games has obviously like you pointed out has also led users to explore other avenues such as VPNs and they've also tried to... Yes, yes, carry on. Yeah. So I used to say that essentially what these, what the complete ban does is it also often increases user harm by leading them to explore unregulated platforms which don't always have KYC protocols in place or data protection protocols in place. So that's one key that is going to be looked at in the coming days as we understand how these rules will be enforced practically.

V

Vicramos4:40:03

Right, so enforced practically how it's going to happen. But Axat, meanwhile for the startups, these rules clearly improve the ease of doing business but we've got a fast scaling industry over here. So then you imagine self-regulation realistically keeping pace with the addictive design, with the monetization tweaks, the algorithmic nudges. Is that likely to?

A

Akshhata Rati4:40:26

Look, this is a profit channel, right? So NDTV Profit. So let me just actually go ahead and say the way that this would go ahead and open is this one last plant frontier which is the Indian youth consumer is the one that is available for the world to go ahead and fight upon. China's gone and done its way to go ahead and grow the market and by the way China went through the same process there. China banned edtech after a certain amount of time where it wasn't behaving in the certain way and China banned real money gaming and gambling systems in China and other countries have also gone and taken the same view. I think what we will go ahead and do is this will go ahead and give what I call 90% clarity of what works and what doesn't work. And they're fairly clear about gambling is not kosher. Money in and money out is not kosher. There are loot boxes for example, right? Loot boxes is something that the world goes and regulates in different ways. Is it a percentage chance that you have to go ahead and declare? Is there something gacha? It's called the gacha panic. Is that something that is good or not good? I think that's where I think the market will evolve and big value is always created on a certain bit of unambiguity and ambiguity that goes in for people to go ahead and take some arbitrage on. I think those would be the causal outcomes as long as the youth is not being harmed and I think you know we are one of the biggest youngest nations in the world. I think the responsibility on this is to have responsible behavior and that's where self-regulation should come in. I think people will go ahead and mark it up once in a while and they should be punished for it.

V

Vicramos4:41:53

I like the way you said that we're in it for the profit and that's what the channel stands for as well. But yes, as far as our youth is concerned, we want to safeguard their interest. So with registrations and now you have an Online Gaming Authority, the registrations now are valid for 10 years. So now the authority, the Online Gaming Authority, will it truly have that kind of agility to step in quickly if there is a clean social game that later pivots towards any kind of predatory monetization? Do you think they have the teeth to be able to carry out that?

N

Nachiket K. Yagnik4:42:25

The rules provide for the OGI to essentially step in, have suo moto, it can monitor on its own and ensure that if say a game has been given its certificate of registration and then the algorithm changes to ensure that now it starts monetizing the game and there's predatory monetization of the game at all or there are certain algorithmic changes which lead to user harm, then the OGI has the authority to ensure to not only cancel the registration that has been afforded to the game but also relook at the game and go ahead and even prohibit it or ban it if deemed necessary. So I think the rules in theory have enough, give the OGI enough ammo to ensure that the certificate of registration is not misused by the game developers who've gotten it. Again like you said, we're going to see the proof of the pudding when this is actually put in place and is followed in the letter and spirit that it's put forth by the OGI.

V

Vicramos4:43:30

But Axad, the free-to-play doesn't mean risk-free, right? Should addictive mechanics and the in-app purchase pressure be treated as the next major consumer protection challenge even if there is no real money that is wagered here?

A

Akshhata Rati4:43:46

Look, most entertainment items whether it is Netflix that you go out and watch or any in-app purchases that you do whether they are cosmetic or for vanity or for going and leveling up your sword with gold stars on it or whatever. This is going to be a vanity metric for a lot of people. I think the difference between that and addiction is something that will go ahead and evolve as a market goes together. And I think the responsible behavior is looking at the precedence that is everywhere else in the world. I'll go ahead and add some fact which is there. The wording of this is fairly phenomenal where MeitY is the nodal one and you have an additional secretary who's going to be leading this. But look at the other departments they went and put. They put the Information and Broadcasting Ministry so that people don't do advertising on OTT and on linear television. They went and put the Sports Ministry for sports. They went and did the Finance Ministry so that banks can be told to go ahead and ban any other items that are not being looked at. So the ability to bring together and make sure that it is a literally multimodal framework is one of the more phenomenal ones that you have seen in the world. I work, Nwin works in about 22 countries in the world. I've never seen such multiple departments come together. Will this work? I hope so. But as a construct, I think it is a phenomenal construct. The world will, I've actually had words with different people in the world and they are saying this is really good.

V

Vicramos4:45:07

Will we go and meander a little bit as we always do to go ahead and get the final destination? Absolutely. But that's the fun part of the game, right? To see it in practice. Of course, the guard railing you say is there. And yet when I look at the rules, Najik, these rules rely heavily on grievance redressal. So one wonders if you're shifting the burden of policing harm onto the users rather than onto the platforms, onto the regulator.

N

Nachiket K. Yagnik4:45:32

So essentially obviously grievance redressal, the imposition of grievance redressal systems is paramount to ensure that users can go ahead and point out what is wrong with the platform but that does not mean that the OGI will not be monitoring how the games operate on their own independent footing as well. So the OGI can will obviously have the power to pull up any game developer irrespective of what the grievance redressal mechanism or that process does. Now it is also interesting to note that the users will also have the ability to take on appeals if they are not satisfied with the grievance mechanism that an online gaming provider has set in place and they can go ahead and appeal directly to the OGI within 30 days of said decision. So that's also something that is to be considered.

V

Vicramos4:46:23

Fair enough. So Akshad, when you look at it from an industry lens, you see this regulation light framework like they're calling it, do you think that is genuinely going to unlock innovation because that's the game of the industry or do you think it risks future backlash in case public trust is rattled, if it's eroded by a few bad actors. If that happens then what do you see?

A

Akshhata Rati4:46:47

Look, I think the final answer of this is where is big value being created? I think value will be made in developers who will now go ahead and develop with a very clear framework. They'll be able to go ahead and raise capital from external companies in the world who would know that hey an Indian developer knows this framework. There'll be publishing outcomes both on PC, console, and mobile that will go ahead and come out. There'll also be bigger esports events and investments that would go into infrastructure and deployments there. What would happen in certain parts is someone will make a bad game. Someone will go ahead and make something that is racist. Someone will go ahead and do something that is against the censor board. And I think that's the power of that multimodal industry is there. We already have frameworks of content sitting with the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting under the censor board. I'm not saying they're censoring games but they already have a framework of content that is available. You will have whether it is SEBI, whether it is the RBI, whether it is MHA, whether it is the Ministry of Sports, they already have these frameworks to go ahead and look at outliers and go ahead and do this. So rather than go ahead and create a whole new statute of laws that would be only under this ministry, they'll use the powers of existing ministries and existing frameworks to go ahead and make sure that the definition is extremely clear for people to go ahead and create value.

V

Vicramos4:48:08

Yes. So if you consider all the points that you're making right now, do you think India is likely to build a globally competitive gaming and esports market without compromising on consumer safety or there is some level of risk that is inevitable in innovation-driven sectors like gaming?

A

Akshhata Rati4:48:26

I think AI is the flavor of the year. So I'm going to go ahead and take an example. I think AI can be used for great harm and great good. I think we will go ahead and be, we should go ahead and be building for India and I think the Prime Minister when he was at WEF said it clearly. We should go ahead and build the cultural power of soft power which Bollywood had. We think we can go ahead and do it with gaming and I think we can go ahead and take it not only for a captive market in India for gamers which is 500-600 million big but also for the world where we can go ahead and take these frameworks and tell other emerging markets that this is in the global south that this is how to go ahead and build gaming class sustainably and responsibly. I think this is a great idea to go out and do this. I keep saying this, it's the 1990. I think it's great for 90% of the people, it's okay for 9% of the people, and 1% of the people will mark it up and then we have to go and watch out for them.

V

Vicramos4:49:15

Right, so the system has what it takes to be able to get those checks and balances at least that's the larger takeaway and yes innovation has to be balanced against user safety as well and that's something else that is work in motion. But a crucial debate on innovation versus oversight. My thanks to Axad Rati of Nwin Gaming, Nachiket Yagnik from Creda Legal. Thanks very much. So as far as viewers are concerned, yes, India's gaming rules may boost these startups, but their real test is going to be on whether consumer safety evolves as fast as the industry does. But now on to the second big question that we are posing this evening. So yes, as far as the rules are concerned, as far as gaming is something that we're talking about, we've seen that happen. But now things are changing and very rapidly. So what is happening right now is this lady who has gone out and spoken her mind. Our second big question tonight is from that moment that has gone viral. It struck a chord with millions of urban Indians. It's a political rally in Mumbai. It has choked roads. There was complete traffic disruption, ultimate chaos. One angry citizen, you're seeing her on your screens. She had had enough. Just listen in. Just listen into what had happened over there.

I

Israeli Citizen4:50:30

Get out of here. Who's in charge? Oh, no. Before you allow the damn traffic. Okay. Get out of here. Did you not understand? Did you not understand?

V

Vicramos4:51:12

No. No. What is wrong with you?

I

Israeli Citizen4:51:14

There are hundreds of people waiting. There is an empty ground there.

V

Vicramos4:51:19

So there you're seeing it in that video. You're seeing a lady in Mumbai confronting a state minister demanding to know why a political rally was allowed to block those public roads and derail daily life. And this isn't an isolated incident. You've seen the Maratha reservation protests, the bans in Kolkata, the Cauvery disputes in Karnataka, the Jallikattu protests in Chennai, and yes, Telangana as well. Those agitations took place in Hyderabad. Even the high security lockdowns during the G20. Public life in Indian cities repeatedly being disrupted in the name of politics. But this time the public response was loud and clear. In fact, our social media poll is showing that political rallies should not be allowed on busy city roads. 100% of the votes are against that. And we asked if the woman was justified in confronting the minister, 60% of the people who polled are saying yes. So the remaining 40, of course, they say that both sides are to blame. But really, it brings us to the big question tonight. When you're talking about political rallies and our public life, should citizens be the ones paying the price? We have urban planner and public policy expert Rishi Agarwal joining us on this and Kushbu Jen is an advocate at the Supreme Court of India. So let's get into this debate. Rishi, when a city like Mumbai is brought to a halt even for a few hours, there is an economic cost in lost productivity, in fuel wastage, in business disruption. How do you see it?

R

Rishi Agarwal4:52:41

Absolutely. I mean Mumbai being a business city, it's always the economic aspect which comes into mind. I don't think we really appreciate or sympathize with the amount of stress under which Mumbaikars live on a daily basis. So I think the health impact on Mumbaikars, the stress impact is huge and all of that can also be quantified as an economic impact. But just the pure financial numbers, I think it is terrible the amount of time which gets wasted in traffic jams. Meetings are disrupted. People cannot schedule meetings. Mumbai as we all know is very a stickler for time and time is money over here. So if you're going to waste time like this on some reason or the other and political rallies are just one reason, I mean the traffic management is anyways terrible and so all of these things really add up. I mean if you want to be a $5 trillion economy or whatever $1 trillion economy, we need to really value the time of people and we can't treat these kind of matters in such a shabby, shoddy, irresponsible manner. But I would imagine Kushbu Jen saying that the right to protest is constitutional. Right Kushbu, where does it end when it directly interferes with the right to work and the free movement of other citizens?

K

Kushbu Jen4:53:56

I think see both of them are right when it comes to right to protest. When it comes to your democracy, you do as a citizen have a right to protest but at the same time as a citizen we enjoy other rights in the constitution and that right is right to freely move around. That right is right to work. That right is to right to reside and freely move wherever you want to reside, move. Now if these rights have been disrupted and disrupted for a long, there has been so many judgments, plethora of judgments passed by the High Court and several passed by the Supreme Court and several High Courts where they have stated if this disruption has costed life or has disrupted the life of the people or costed some financial or livelihood difficulty then state should be at the cost. There has been so many judgments on that given by the courts and I think the Chambara Soy judgment which is utilized everywhere clearly has put across that there was a man because of some blockade obstruction that was been there because of the road blockade. The person was not able to take his son to the hospital and he lost his son's life and that's where the court said that you need to compensate as a state to the father but at the same time said that there has to be a mechanism. You will have to also understand one more point over here that we do have laws in place, the acts in place which says that if you want to do though it is your right to protest there can be a designated place where you can do the protest but also it doesn't tell you that you can't do protest on the road but you need to take a permission from the police and after the permission is given is where you can do that but if permission is not given the police is duty bound to make sure that the disruption or that blockade is removed and I think that's where the whole question should lie whether the permission was given or whether the permission was sought. Number one, whether the permission was given and after that if this has continued why disruption part when a city like Mumbai on a normal day whether there was no other public space possible for them to do the protest. We are living in the age of technology or social media. You can very well utilize those gardens or those maidans to do the protest and put it across on.

V

Vicramos4:56:00

Let me take that across to Rishi. Rishi, these designated protest spaces, you think they are poorly utilized. Should policy mandate that large political gatherings be restricted to those zones? Is that something that is not happening and should?

R

Rishi Agarwal4:56:16

I've seen enough amount of political protest or public protest at Azad Maidan over 25 years and let me tell you that it's a very poor cousin to the kind of protest which you end up seeing on streets and obviously everybody wants to be on the streets for a certain reason because the street is a political space. The Azad Maidan, nobody's watching you. You are in a, you could be partying over there or protesting over there. Nobody cares. So the street I can understand is a place which really disrupts activity and is visible in the face. Having said that, let me also add to what Kushbu was saying but generally also that I think there are very few genuine public protests in India. Honestly, these are all very cynical politically organized protests. We all know how the protesters are gathered, how people transport is provided, other incentives is provided. So there is very little genuine public protest in India anyways. You don't have things like what has happened in Ireland recently or happens in France or happens in Korea. Unions come in big force and there are a lot of membership based unions. Those kind of thing don't happen. So these kind of protest honestly I don't even attach much of importance to, these are very cynical.

V

Vicramos4:57:27

And the economic fallout that you were talking about Rishi, these disruptions do they disproportionately hurt the gig workers, the small businesses, the logistics, while the political power centers remain insulated and that is the grievance of citizens.

R

Rishi Agarwal4:57:42

Absolutely, absolutely. You can just imagine a city like Mumbai on an hourly, on an every minute basis deliveries are happening by gig workers whether it is home essentials or whether it is food or whatever you are and imagine with this kind of a thing thousands of gig workers orders would have been just immediately disrupted. There would have been absolute chaos. I mean they would be receiving calls, orders getting cancelled, money to be refunded, so many things. I mean this is not.

V

Vicramos4:58:09

What should one do? Kushbu Jen, should city administrations be held legally liable when crowd control, when traffic management failures happen and those impact public life at the kind of scale that we are looking at? Should they be legally liable? What does the law provide for in this case? You did mention one case, but now we're not looking at extremities. We're talking about disruptions that clearly damage public life, daily life that we are talking about which the city and its economic wheels cannot afford.

K

Kushbu Jen4:58:40

Absolutely. I think if in principle I have to give you an answer. Yes, there should be a compensation jurisprudence in public law that already supports liability for failure to discharge positive duties on the state. But at the same time, if you look into it, whether it is there, it is not there. It is case to case basis specifically where a severe harm is caused and you are able to prove the harm is where the judgments have been passed. But we should not even wait for the judgment to come in place that you know I have to go to the court to seek something which is already provided in the constitution to me and which is already a duty of the law enforcement agency or the state to look into when it comes to public order, when it comes to providing me free movement on the roads. And I think this is where we need to build in a broader compensatory jurisprudence around these roadblocks or things that have been happening. And I think the earlier panelist was superb on the point that it is no more that right that was being given in a democratic state to protest. This has literally been some invested parties who wants to have their invested agendas put across and that's what has been happening. And I think that's where we need to move, come to the aspect which is not just compensatory but compensatory and at the same time the element of making it mandatory that let that be in the designated spaces, not on the roads. Because see, I'll give you one small example. I'm sorry Vikram, if I am not, I'm running my own office but let's say I'm working in an organization, there is always a punch in and punch out. I reach late, I'm not being given the thing. I have a flight to catch. Will they pay me for the compensation for that 5,000 rupees? Will I go and sue in the court? These are the answers where.

V

Vicramos5:00:21

So at the end of the day, Kushbu, who owns the city during the working hours? Is it the citizen? Is it the economy? Is it the political class? I mean this is turning out to be a very mood question.

K

Kushbu Jen5:00:34

If I have to answer, enjoyment, it is a citizen who have to enjoy the growth of the city depends on the economy of the city or the punishment but at the same time the duty comes on the state. The duty comes on the law enforcement agencies to make sure that there is a non-obstructive peacefulness in the city without any disruption. I think here one more example I want to put across and he will not, I mean I don't know whether it will be a happy example. You look into aspect of when it comes to ambulance, forget the ambulance. If minister has to go somewhere, they practically have 10 cars ahead of them and 10 cars behind them and they block everything and move ahead. If their work is important, this work is important and if this obstruction can create a problem let's say tomorrow to America to reach a place, will there not be an issue? There will be an issue.

V

Vicramos5:01:20

So in a democracy everyone is to be equal and that is getting challenged. So this debate cuts to the heart of urban life. There is democratic responsibility. Of course, there is going to be much more of this in the future where we kind of pin down the issues and the possibilities of being able to tackle it. But my thanks to Rishi Agarwal and Kushbu Jen for joining us with their perspectives tonight. Running out of time, but yes, the takeaway is that democracy as far as India is concerned, yes, there are checks and balances. Democracy needs space for protest definitely. But when it affects our daily life, our public life, if it gets disrupted and hits at our economy, that's when things get a trifle difficult and we have to find real solutions. That's what this show is here for. The big question on NDTV Profit. I'm Vikram. Thanks for joining us.

T

Tamana5:03:26

Hi, I'm Tamana. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories. What happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

N

Nidat Sha5:03:39

Hi, I'm Nidat Sha. Watch me on NDTV Profit for the most incisive market intelligence and meaningful corporate conversations.

A

Alex Matthew5:03:50

And I'm Alex Matthew. Markets, mutual funds, insurance, personal finance. I help you cut through the noise and make smarter financial choices. And here's where you can watch us.

N

Narrator5:04:11

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Pyramal Pharma were the top gainers, both of which were up by over 6.5%. Nifty Auto was the top losing sector, down by over 2%, led by Ashok Leyland and TVS Motors, both of which were down by almost 4% today. Also, let's have a look at the sectoral trend. Nifty Pharma has ended in green for the second day in a row, while indices like Nifty PSU Bank and Nifty Oil and Gas have snapped their 4-day gaining streak. Also, Nifty Realty, Nifty Metal, Nifty FMCG have snapped their 2-day gaining streak, while indices like Nifty Auto, Nifty IT, Nifty Bank, and Nifty Financial Services have ended in red for the second day in a row.

A lot of the strength that we're seeing, not just in the US, but globally. Take a look at Korea. SK Hynix's numbers coming out this morning, incredibly strong. That is the tale of two cities of the world right now, because a lot of this AI buildout and the capex is insulated from the geopolitical conflict that we have going around the world. If anything, the need for behind-the-meter power for additional power supply sources has accelerated because of what's happening in the Middle East.

The war, which should have ideally ended by now, simply because there have been so many efforts that have been made about possible peace talks, but that hasn't happened. It started on the 28th of February, and as we speak, the Iran war continues. There is a ceasefire, but that's indefinitely at play, but that is hardly something that is giving any comfort to investors around the world. The reason for that is the fact that the IRGC is now actually bombing several vessels in that vicinity. Add to it the fact that Donald Trump has now come out and very categorically said that the American Navy is now going to shoot any Iranian vessels that put mines or sea mines in that region, essentially adding to the fact that this is a war that is still some time away from seeing any potential peace options right now. What does it add up to? How does it really look is something that we're going to keep focusing on going forward. But let's play out this important ground report that's been filed by my colleagues who are on ground covering this war since the 28th of February. Take a look.

R

Reporter5:19:48

I'm trying to get the reaction from the people here in Israel, trying to find out what they have to say, because the negotiation between Iran and Washington has failed because Iran has made it clear that they will not be sitting on the talking table. They've almost rejected this negotiation offer from the Pakistan side. Let me speak to the people here. How do you see this thing that Iran has rejected this offer? They're saying that they will not be coming and sitting on the talking table.

I

Israeli Citizen5:20:11

We are very disappointed. We know that Iran is against Israel all the time. They are doing things against Israel. We don't understand why they are doing it, and we think they will not change their color. We are very, very disappointed.

R

Reporter5:20:29

So what do you really want the United States of America to do at this stage, because they are keeping conditions that you should open naval blockade?

I

Israeli Citizen5:20:38

First of all, they damaged the economic situation, and second, Iran needs to collapse and destroy all the things that can be against Israel, all the atomic and all the things that we don't know, because right now the Iranian people are building missiles and everything in order to attack and destroy Israel. Why? Nobody understands. We like and we love the Iranian people. The Iranian people are good people. They want peace. 40 years ago they were the best of our country. Why not now?

R

Reporter5:21:18

So the people here feel that they are here for peace. They want negotiation. They want diplomacy and dialogue to be given a chance. But if Iran is not keen for the dialogue, they feel that there is another option left for them, and that's a kind of warfare, and they should unleash that kind of warfare and teach Iran a lesson. Once again, they should start bombing that country if they don't mend their ways.

N

Narrator5:21:41

Important policy updates and news coming in which is in regard to the rice exports. Something that has actually taken a significant hit because of the ongoing war in Iran. Remember, the Middle East actually contributes very substantially to India's rice exports, which is why the numbers essentially tell the story. 7.5% is the kind of hit that India's rice exports have taken. Shipments have been delayed, payments have slowed down, and add to it the fact that costs with regards to insurance have also risen quite significantly. All of this pulling down India's rice exports. How much it is is something that Mahima explains in greater detail. Take a look.

M

Mahima5:22:25

We've seen a dip of around 7.5% in terms of rice exports in 2025-26 so far, and overall exports have seen this dip on account of contraction in shipments to major destinations. This is as per the Ministry of Commerce data that we've gotten. The exports in March itself have seen a decline of around 15.3%. Shipments to Middle East regions including Iran, UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Oman have been impacted. Iran is one of the biggest basmati rice export destinations for India. The more concerning part is that overall shipments are witnessing growing stress in terms of order flow. Payment cycles are getting impacted, and ship schedules due to prevailing instability are also getting hampered. On top of that, importers are now conveying their inability to honor existing commitments and remit payments to India. So it's not just about overall exports going down, but payments are also getting stuck to a major extent. In 2024 and 2025, we exported around 20.1 million tons of rice and produced around 150 million tons of rice. Overall average yields have also improved to 2.72 tons per hectare since the cycle began, from 2014-15 to almost 3.2 tons per hectare in 2024-25. So overall, yields are going to get impacted, plus exports being impacted will overall see a dampening and impact in a lot of these rice exporter names. So that's the overall perspective on what's happening in the rice space.

N

Narrator5:24:13

This is one of the most significant set of policy details that are coming in right now. The much-in-the-works India-US trade deal talks have concluded, and there is huge expectation that the India-US trade deal could be signed very soon. There are important comments that are coming in from both sides, and we're going to play that out as well for you viewers. But do remember that the India-US trade deal has been in the works for a very long time. The fact that this comes in right now indicates that this could have a much larger impact on the strategic and geopolitical aspects of the India-US relationship. Add to it the fact that the India-US bilateral trade partnership is also going to get a huge fillip going forward. Listen in to those important sound bites.

S

Speaker 15:25:00

A team from India went to Washington DC for negotiations on a bilateral trade agreement. These engagements are ongoing and constructive. Both sides are working towards a balanced, mutually beneficial, and forward-looking trade agreement, taking into account each other's concerns and priorities, and to reach a trade target of USD 500 billion by 2030. So that is where we are on the bilateral trade agreement.

J

Jamieson Greer5:25:34

India is a tough nut to crack. They've protected their agricultural markets for a very long time. As part of this deal, they're going to want to protect a lot of that still. There are things though where I think we can find mutual agreement. DDGS is a good example of this.

N

Narrator5:25:51

In top national news, extremely important set of state elections. The first phase of that for Bengal concluded today. Tamil Nadu also voted today. These are the most important state elections. Both Tamil Nadu and Bengal are where BJP is taking on the state, very significant and well-established state parties. In Tamil Nadu, it is the DMK versus the AIADMK coalition. BJP is part of the AIADMK block. In Bengal, it's a straight bipolar contest between the BJP and TMC. There's been a record amount of voting. What this all means is something that we are going to know on the 4th of May when the results come out. But as things stand right now, both these elections are going to have a huge impact on not just the political landscape of India but also the overall legislative landscape of India.

S

Speaker 25:26:48

There are two things that have done two things. One is people who are lethargic, people who usually would not turn up, have been driven into them that this time you must vote because this is one of those votes or elections after the S exercise. Secondly, there is that thing about a lower baseline, which means that when you have a lower base, a higher percentage of voting is expected. But apart from that, this is also an election that has seen a huge mobilization by both the BJP and the Trinamool Congress because both parties have really reached out, made that effort to get voters to canvas amongst voters and get them to the booth. So you have these three factors combining to give you this kind of turnout. Not to say that West Bengal had poor turnout earlier. It always had a good voter turnout. But this time around, what seems to have increased those numbers are these three factors: one, the S exercise ensuring that people come out to vote; two, the lower baseline meaning a higher percentage because voters who weren't there, voters who died, all of that is off the list; and three, the canvassing by both the parties making it almost like a do-or-die election.

Definitely two factors are playing a role in the rise in poll percentage. S is going to play a role, but the other factor is definitely TVK Vijay, because we are able to see many youths at Chennai polling booths, how from morning they had long queues to vote in favor of their respective parties. But we have to wait and see how much impact it is going to create. As we speak, till 5:00 PM, Tamil Nadu has recorded 82.24% polling, which has already surpassed the previous election record. In 2011 it was 78.29%, in 2016 it was 74.81%, in 2021 it was 73.63%. But as of now, till 5 PM itself, more than 80% of Tamil Nadu people have voted. So this is going to be a very interesting factor on May 4th, how this rise in poll percentage, whether it is because of anti-incumbency to the present government, or the Vijay factor is playing a huge role, or because of S. You'll get a clear picture on May 4th.

N

Narrator5:29:17

Before we wrap things up on this edition of India Business Report, take a look at this exclusive conversation that my colleague Nishaar had with Pirosha God, who's taken the helm of God Industries at one of its most important moments. In this exclusive conversation, Mr. Godra also highlights that caution is starting to creep into residential real estate, with consumers starting to push back decisions due to the uncertainty that continues to have a major overhang with regard to the Middle East war. Take a look at that slice of the exclusive conversation.

P

Pirosha God5:29:56

I think we have big expectations from businesses like Godrej Properties, which has now been for 3 years the largest residential real estate developer. I think there's a lot of opportunity for value creation there. As we believe, Godrej Properties has an accounting standard where you only recognize the projects in the P&L once they're fully completed. So sales go first, then cash flows, then P&L earnings. I think the market is waiting to see those earnings. We're quite hopeful and confident of delivering those in FY28. A big spike up in earnings. We do think that will result in value creation as well.

T

Tamana5:32:20

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Alex Matthew5:32:43

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Narrator5:33:04

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A

Alex Matthew5:34:39

Hi, we're talking about Your Money Matters on NDTV Profit and my name is Alex Matthew. Buy when everyone else is fearful and sell when everyone else is greedy. This is something that I'm paraphrasing, of course, but it's a famous quote and it has to do with sentiment in the equity markets. It is something that has proven to be useful and has proven to be successful more often than not over the past many years. But how do you do this? And is there an opportunity to look at a mutual fund strategy that does this for you without you having to do it? That's exactly what we're talking about today. It's called either the value strategy or the contra strategy. Of course, these are used interchangeably. That may not necessarily be the most accurate way to describe it though. We've got Rushab Desai, founder of Rupy with Rushab Investment, joining in to talk about this. Rushab, thanks so much for taking the time. Let me first ask you about this value contra strategy that is available in mutual funds. How does it work? What is the thesis?

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Rushab Desai5:35:46

Hi Alex, thanks so much for having me on the show. Alex, there is a very thin line difference between value and contra strategies. What does a contra strategy do? A contra strategy basically invests in underperforming sectors, stocks, and segments in the capital markets. If a particular segment is not doing well and if that particular segment has corrected by say 10, 15, 20%, then a contrarian investor or the fund manager would be more brave and take aggressive calls in that corrective pocket. On the other side, what does a value strategy do? It basically invests in undervalued sectors or stocks or segments in the capital markets. Not necessarily that particular pocket would have corrected sharply, but either the stocks or the sectors or that particular pocket in the capital markets would have been undervalued. It has not yet reached its true value or true potential. So a contra strategy basically invests in underperforming sectors and stocks, and a value strategy basically invests in undervalued sectors and stocks. Alex.

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Alex Matthew5:37:03

Understood. If you look back over the last decade and if you try to judge how the performance of these strategies has functioned and what the outcome has been, fact is, Rushab, that more often than not, in more years, you've had a value strategy that has emerged on top. Is that not the case?

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Rushab Desai5:37:26

Typically, what happens is that growth as a strategy has been comparatively more consistent than value, because in a value strategy, it takes time for its price to unlock, for its true price to actually shine out in the markets. So value as a strategy may be cyclical from time to time, but growth as a strategy would be a little more consistent from time to time. So this is what we tell our investors out there: investing in different strategies is very important, Alex, because every strategy has its time of outperformance and underperformance. Historically, growth as a strategy has done comparatively much better than value, but when value has played out well, it has actually given some extraordinary returns compared to growth. So if you're investing in a growth-oriented strategy, probably 4-5 years is a good time horizon, but if you're investing in a value-oriented strategy, then 6-7 years is a time horizon I would keep because it can get more cyclical compared to growth.

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Alex Matthew5:38:37

Understood. That point is well noted, because you try to buy stocks and companies that are underperforming, and it usually is at the bottom of the cycle that is found, and then after that you have to wait for the rebound to take place. So this is something that you have to have more patience with. But having said that, what has the experience been for a contra option? Because if you look at the options available, Rushab, there are not too many schemes that are available because a fund house has to choose between a contra strategy and a value strategy, doesn't it?

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Rushab Desai5:39:18

Absolutely, Alex. The reason why I like the contra strategy is that you can play the contra strategy by investing in a contra fund, number one, and you can be a contrarian and play out the contra strategy by investing in different funds, different categories, different market capitalizations, different sectors, and invest when these categories and sectors are underperforming, have corrected by say 10, 15, 20% or so, and then probably take a selling call when these funds, categories, and sectors have given some really good returns. So you can be a contra investor by investing in a contra fund, and you can also be a contra investor by not investing in a contra fund by playing out in different market capitalizations and strategies. I'll give you some very interesting data, Alex. As per historical data, I pulled out returns of Sensex since 1980 till 2025, which is around 45-46 years. Every year, almost every year, equity markets have fallen on an entire year basis anywhere between -10 to -20%. At the same time, 80% of these periods out of this 45-46 years, 80% of the time period, markets have ended on a positive note at the year end. And when the recovery phase enters and when markets have entered into a bull run, markets have not only recovered well, but markets have really given some superior double-digit risk-adjusted returns. So you can actually be a contra investor every year because no one has made money by investing in a bull market. If you invest in a bull market cycle, then you should expect probably single-digit returns.

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Alex Matthew5:41:16

Is that true though? Because if you think about it, if you invested in 2020 at the start of the bull run, right, and I'm saying start of the bull run because you had that crash and then after that you had a bull run. Some argue that we're still in a bull run, that you've just had an interruption and things will pick up eventually. People have made between 12 and 18%.

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Rushab Desai5:41:43

I'll give you a very interesting data point here. What you are saying is right. I don't disagree to that. There will be funds which would have done well. But at the same time, if you look at the data, for example, if someone would have invested in 2007 when markets were in a phenomenal euphoria, and if you take out the data from 2007 to 2025-26, many of the indexes have generated single-digit CAGR returns. But at the same time, if someone would have invested during the global financial crisis at the end of 2008, people would have made some really good 18-19% CAGR returns. So to answer your question, yes, there will be funds which would have done well if they are managed well, but at the same time, it's always better to invest during correction pockets because it gives you margin of safety and it gives you ample upside opportunity. Alex.

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Alex Matthew5:42:46

Yeah, it's a good point. But if you're investing on a consistent basis through a SIP route, then you don't have to worry about timing one or the other. The idea is that you will get close to average returns, and that itself is something that most people don't manage to do. So you might be in a small cohort of successful people. Let's talk about some of these strategies though, and we're focusing on contra strategies. Rushab, what are the schemes in the category up to in terms of what have they achieved over the last 5 years and what stands out about how they're doing this?

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Rushab Desai5:43:24

Okay, so there are not many schemes in the contra strategy space. There are probably three or four schemes. One is Kotak Contra Fund, second is Invesco India Contra Fund, and third is the SBI Contra Fund. Right now, I pulled out some very interesting data on a 5-year daily rolling CAGR basis from 1st January 2020 to 21st April 2026. All of these three contra funds have managed to generate higher alpha, number one, have managed to outperform the Nifty 500 TRI index much higher number of times, and have delivered consistent returns as well. These three contra funds have delivered superior returns and have outperformed many of the value funds as well. Let's look at the top two performing contra funds, Alex. One is the Kotak Contra and second is Invesco India Contra. If I look at the Kotak Contra, the average returns generated on a 5-year daily rolling CAGR basis from 1st Jan 2020 to 21st April 2026 has been 16.3% CAGR. This is on an average. Number two, the Kotak Contra fund has generated greater than 12% CAGR returns 84% of the time period, and the outperformance strike rate compared to Nifty 500 TRI index has been 100%. Number two, going to the Invesco India Contra, average returns generated has been 16.1% CAGR. The fund has generated greater than 12% compounding returns 77% of the time period, and the outperformance strike rate has been 83% vis-a-vis Nifty 500 TRI index. So over the past 6 years, Alex, contra as a strategy has managed to do really well even compared to many of the value funds out there.

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Alex Matthew5:45:31

That's very interesting. So if you were to discuss the positioning of a contra fund in a portfolio, Rushab, how would you go about it? Because ultimately, this is not something that forms the backbone of your portfolio. Or is it?

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Rushab Desai5:45:47

No, it can form a backbone. Alex, when we look at portfolio creation, we always recommend number one, asset allocation is the standard way to go ahead. But at the same time, it's very important to invest across different styles also, Alex, which I just mentioned earlier. It's very important to invest in growth-oriented strategies, in momentum-oriented strategies, in value-oriented strategies, and contra-oriented strategies as well. So if you're creating a portfolio, say probably 20 to 25% of the allocation can be given to contra funds because contra funds have managed to not only deliver outperformance returns but have also managed to be more consistent over the period of time periods as well. So I think a good portion of 20-25% can be given to contra funds in one's portfolio.

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Alex Matthew5:46:39

Okay. So that's certainly something. But if you have contra, if you've chosen to add contra in your portfolio, should you also add value? That is a question, right? Because ultimately, you've described the difference between the two, but you've also pointed out that contra has tended to outperform even value as a strategy. So how do you choose between the two? Would you choose one over the other?

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Rushab Desai5:47:04

No, one can keep both the funds in one's portfolio. So around 20-25% can be given to growth funds, 20-25% to momentum funds, 20-25% to value funds, and 20-25% to contra funds. So allocating equally across four strategies should do the job because every strategy and every fund will outperform and underperform from time to time.

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Alex Matthew5:47:30

Got it. I think that pretty much covers this topic. Thanks, Rushab, for taking the time as always. Insightful conversation.

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Rushab Desai5:47:42

Thank you so much, Alex.

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Alex Matthew5:47:46

It's been a turbulent period for markets as a whole, and you just need to look at two months to see what I'm talking about. If you look at March on the one hand, your equity portfolios would have fallen through the floor, and then if you look at April in isolation, you will have seen quite the meteoric rise. Earlier today, I was having a conversation with somebody who tracks the equity markets very closely, and we were talking about this index, the Nifty 500 index. I was asking him how many of those constituents have risen sharply. What he pointed out was that well over 300 stocks in that 500 stock index have seen an uptick of price of more than 30%. That's practically two-thirds of that index. Does that mean that the worst is over in the war? Does that mean that India's footing is stronger than it was thought to be in March? And how are fund managers looking at this? I think the best way to understand that is to understand the positioning in the multi-asset strategy, because this is something that is used by fund managers to shift between asset classes depending on where they see the best opportunities. Joining me now to talk about multi-asset as a strategy and what it means going forward is Ashish Nyak, who's equity fund manager at Axis Mutual Fund. Ashish, thanks so much for taking the time. Let me start by asking about how your multi-asset fund is managed. The reason why I ask this is because there is a broad definition for how this should be managed, and there are interpretations that fund managers have. So there's quite a difference between how fund managers across the spectrum manage this category. Can you explain the product as a whole and then how you manage it?

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Ashish Nyak5:49:46

Sure. Multi-asset funds as a definition need to be in at least three asset classes, typically equity, debt, and commodities, which are also typically gold or silver. In terms of how various fund managers manage, there is a difference in terms of how much each asset class is required to hold, and that is actually determined primarily by the equity level. So if the fund has a gross equity level of 65% or more, it is classified into the tax-efficient category or what we call the equity taxation for mutual funds, which is where Axis's multi-asset fund belongs to. There are other funds which can have lesser equity, maybe between 35 to 65% gross equity, and in that case there is more room to add debt and commodities. The idea here is that all of these various asset classes have a very low correlation, and the diversification between them is what actually gives better risk-adjusted returns. The way Axis manages it is that we have a gross equity level between 65 to 80% of equity, but with arbitrage we can go as low as 30%. So between 30% to 80% of net equity level is what we will hold in the fund. There will also be the remaining portion of debt as well as the arbitrage, and the balance is between 10% to up to 25% in commodities, which could be gold and silver.

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Alex Matthew5:51:23

That's well described. I just want to jump in here to ask you in what situations would this change? Because you've described that even if your equity allocation is at a minimum 65%, you can actually go significantly lower by adding arbitrage. So can you describe what situations would hypothetically cause you to go lower in equity and what situations would cause you to go overweight in equity?

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Ashish Nyak5:51:55

Yes, this is the next part I was coming to in terms of how we look at asset allocation. We have an internal model which works as a framework in terms of how asset allocation should be done. There are various parameters that get fed into it, including valuations, earnings momentum, macro indicators, as well as trends. This is a model that has evolved over the years, and we have been using it as a guidance framework for the fund managers across our hybrid funds to hold equity wherever we manage equity dynamically. In addition, we also have an asset allocation committee which also guides asset allocation to the fund managers. Coming to the specific question on when we would be very low on equity and very high on equity, obviously the various parameters that come to mind for equity being lower is if the valuations are very high or if we see that there are impending risks to the overall domestic growth story, which is what equities generally will be leveraged to. We would be going much lower on equity. For instance, what comes to mind was the recent time period in the last 2 months where we had to cut down our equity exposures, and at one point of time from about more than 60% we had gone to below 53-54%. Having said that, when the situation reverses and when we see that fundamentals are now turning for the better, valuations are improving, earnings momentum is with us, we will also go higher. In fact, at this point of time, there is also a situation where we are seeing that in many cases, not across the board in all stocks, but in many cases we are seeing across sectors valuations are favorable, and we have also increased our equity allocation. Just taking a step back in terms of the overall economy itself and the markets, the start of this year was actually much better for India as a domestic market, as an equity market, in terms of the economic growth which was supposed to pick up with the consumption-led momentum that we were seeing, with the government policy push, with relatively benign inflation and other macro factors that were helping growth in terms of liquidity being good.

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Alex Matthew5:54:20

What really went against the markets was also valuations had come down compared to other markets in the last 12 months. What really went against us is the one biggest risk that we face, which is geopolitics. I'm sure we will discuss more on it, and that's where the change we had to do in our fund allocations.

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Ashish Nyak5:54:39

Yeah.

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Alex Matthew5:54:39

What is the latest reading and official data that has been published by the fund house? Where does equity allocation currently stand in the multi-asset fund?

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Ashish Nyak5:54:52

At this point of time, at the end of March, we are somewhere near the 65% region.

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Alex Matthew5:55:00

And a large part is pure equity and not arbitrage?

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Ashish Nyak5:55:05

A large part is pure equity. There could be some derivative positions also, but yes.

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Alex Matthew5:55:11

And gold or commodities in that basket, where does it stand?

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Ashish Nyak5:55:22

Both gold and silver as a basket, and especially silver has been extremely volatile as we know for the last two years. There has been a great up move in these two assets in that period where there was a move away from being into currencies due to geopolitical uncertainties. What we saw between them was an anti-dollar kind of a trade where people did not want to stay invested in any particular currency due to various risks, and hence they invested and flocked to things like gold and silver. Gold, being much more stable, has shown a relatively lower up move. But on the downside in the last two months when things reversed and the dollar again started moving higher, the reversal in terms of gold has also been lower, while silver was much more volatile. As our asset allocation goes, we were much higher in our commodity exposure till the end of last year. At the beginning of this year, we saw that the euphoria was reaching across both these assets, and we reduced our exposure. So from levels which were as high as at the peak 23-24%, at one point of time we had gone to as low as 11-12%. Currently, we are about equal weight to our benchmark, which is 15%. In that, the mix is more tilted towards gold at this point of time, given that we feel it is much more stable and current conditions are more conducive for an asset like gold, which is much more broad-based.

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Alex Matthew5:56:59

Interesting, Ashish. The reason I wanted to ask you about that is because a lot of people have flocked towards this category because of the outperformance, and that is just a tendency of how people have invested. I'm glad to see that that is changing slowly and surely, but multi-asset funds have actually outperformed pure equity funds over the course of the last year and a half, largely on account of the way that gold and commodities have moved. I'm saying that despite the kind of drop that you saw earlier this year in those prices, because despite that, you're talking about in certain cases 40-60% of gains. But having said that, do you think that it has created a wrong expectation for the way that returns are meant to function in this category of funds, multi-asset? Because the way that you run it, it is primarily equity, but it's not meant to give you pure equity returns, right?

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Ashish Nyak5:57:56

Great question. In the multi-asset category, a multi-asset fund is supposed to invest across these three broad categories of assets. As we know, there is very low correlation, and in fact, if you look at commodities like gold, there is a negative correlation to assets like equity and debt. In terms of gold, we had a very big lull in terms of returns for a large part of the last decade. Post-COVID, and especially post the geopolitical crisis since 2022-2023, there was a huge up move given the uncertainty. As we discussed, overall global trade, gold is a much broader asset class, and hence the move there was much more calibrated. While there was a big move, it was much more calibrated. Silver has a much lower investor base, and it behaved in a much more volatile manner. The only way to look at these two is as part of the investment basket as part of an asset allocation strategy, where as we do it, we try to invest between these various asset classes depending on the attractiveness relatively between each one of them and the overall macro situation. So when the situation was more conducive towards being into commodities, we were much higher overweight in them individually and as an aggregate level, and we were able to cut down these exposures. So there is some level of active allocation in terms of how we want to be in these asset classes. Only being into one particular asset class, be it equity, debt, or commodities, will not help. A large part of your returns, especially let's say a large part of the last decade, would not have given great returns if you were only invested in gold. Similarly, if you were only invested in equities, there would be big drawdowns. Multi-asset funds generally are able to bring down those volatilities, and hence there are time periods when the returns on multi-asset funds, let's say over smaller periods like one year, but more importantly over 2-3 years, the risk-adjusted returns are much better than any particular asset class. So I would say multi-asset funds are for the long term. They're not to be used for any particular return expectation in the shorter term. The idea is to hold them for a medium to long term, and based on the skill sets of the various teams that are managing it, they will be able to outperform, but not on absolute but on risk-adjusted return lines.

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Alex Matthew6:00:30

Yeah, that's actually a very interesting way of putting it. If I may, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, Ashish, it's the difference between driving very quickly in short bursts and driving at a steady pace. If you're driving at a steady pace, you might reach 3 or 4 minutes slower than you would if you were driving very quickly, and your experience would be very different between the two. One has higher risk and possibly higher reward. You get there faster. The other is a more steady state, and I guess that is what a multi-asset strategy is supposed to achieve.

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Ashish Nyak6:01:04

Yeah.

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Alex Matthew6:01:05

So I hope that I was right in my description.

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Ashish Nyak6:01:09

Absolutely. The classic tortoise and hare story. I will definitely end with you. Yeah.

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Alex Matthew6:01:14

Absolutely. Ashish, thanks so much for taking the time. Pleasure speaking with you.

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Ashish Nyak6:01:17

Pleasure. Absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.

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Alex Matthew6:01:20

All right. Well, that brings us to the end of this edition of Your Money Matters. It goes to show that you shouldn't have the wrong expectation when you're investing in something that has outperformed in a short period of time, because there are multiple factors that might have led to that. Thanks so much for watching. Do stay tuned. This is NDTV Profit.

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Tamana6:03:24

Hi, I'm Tamana. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories. What happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

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Nidat Sha6:03:37

Hi, I'm Nidat Sha. Watch me on NDTV Profit for the most incisive market intelligence and meaningful corporate conversations.

A

Alex Matthew6:03:48

And I'm Alex Matthew. Markets, mutual funds, insurance, personal finance. I help you cut through the noise and make smarter financial choices. And here's where you can watch us.

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Tamana6:39:25

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Nidat Sha6:39:38

Hi, I'm Nidat Sha. Watch me on NDTV Profit for the most incisive market intelligence and meaningful corporate conversations.

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Alex Matthew6:39:49

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Narrator6:40:10

He has been tracking markets for over a decade, spots the trends before they hit the screen. And he is now bringing his analysis to the show that the market watches. Watch Shah Dubet on Know Your Company, a show that puts the most traded stocks under the scanner. We dissect the company so that you, the investor, don't have to get the management to answer questions relevant to you. Watch Know Your Company weekdays at 11:30 a.m. to understand your next big bet.

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Narrator6:41:27

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Even as the mood on IT overall is a bit negative, all of the companies are coming out with their numbers, and Tech Mahindra in terms of commentary is perhaps showing a more optimistic outlook than others. What's leading to that optimism? I'm speaking now with Mohit Joshi, CEO and MD of Tech Mahindra. Mohit, great to catch up with you after the numbers that have come in. In line with most expectations, and some of the analyst commentary today is also talking about how it is a great maneuvering in a tough environment.

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Interviewer6:43:18

Quarter, but let's come to the outlook. You're sounding more optimistic than other IT companies. What's leading to that?

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Salil Parekh6:43:27

So, thank you. I think we were delighted by the numbers we were able to report yesterday for the quarter and for the full year, and really the trajectory of growth that we've shown over the past couple of years since we announced the transformation plan has been very satisfying and upward trajectory in terms of revenues and obviously our 10 quarter expansion in margin. But while we've been demonstrating this upward trend in margins and profits, we've also been building the institutional capabilities of the company. We've been winning a lot more large deals, and as we get into FY27, that is really what is giving us the confidence, the very solid foundation that we've built for the business, and the backlog of large deals that we have now created obviously gives us more revenue visibility into the current financial year and leads to our confidence that we'll be able to meet the commitments we've made to the market of a 15% margin and growth ahead of our peers.

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Interviewer6:44:23

You know, the big talking point really for your space is the impact of AI, and some of the other companies have talked about deflationary impact of AI that they will see on revenues. Now you don't talk about AI revenues as a separate reportage like some of the companies do. Can you give us some visibility on AI revenues and do you see any deflationary impact at all?

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Salil Parekh6:44:49

Sure. So look, AI clearly is a very big theme for not just for our industry but obviously for the entire world. It is driving a huge amount of productivity and hopefully in the future will lead to revenue expansion for our clients and for ourselves. The way we see it, there is a very significant modernization opportunity, a very significant opportunity to deploy agentic AI to our clients, and also a lot of the R&D work we've been doing, for instance building sovereign large language models, building a telco reasoning model, all of these we feel will result in significant revenue opportunities down the line. In the short term though, there is a concern that some of the productivity asks that are being driven by the client will result in some revenue compression for the industry as a whole, but I feel that the overall size of the opportunity is very significant. Every single technology transformation wave for our industry, whether it was the Y2K movement or the enterprise apps move, was posed, but there's no reason why this should be different.

I

Interviewer6:45:53

No. So what is the kind of deflationary impact you would see? Some are saying 2 to 3% for their businesses or for the industry. Are you seeing any kind of deflationary impact or hit on revenues in that range?

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Salil Parekh6:46:03

Look, I think the 2 to 3% number has come only yesterday from one of our peers. It's not something that I have seen previously. Clearly for any portfolio, you've got a large portfolio for instance of application management or application maintenance or infrastructure, and when these deals are being repriced, there's a certain expectation of productivity from clients. But that productivity expectation has always been there. Maybe now there is an AI flavor to that, but I would not say that there is a specific set number which is deflating revenues because of AI which is anything hugely different from what we've seen in the past.

I

Interviewer6:46:46

Okay. So at the cost of repetition, just because this is an important point, I'm going to double click on it again. Are you saying that you're not seeing any impact or any deflationary impact of AI on revenues going forward?

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Salil Parekh6:46:58

Sure. So look, what I'm saying is there is clearly a productivity expectation from clients. Some of that productivity expectation is driven by adoption of new technologies. But it's very hard to strip apart the two, saying what is a normal productivity expectation in a repeat versus what is the productivity expectation because of AI, and also the fact that you really can't separate just the deflation. You also have to look at the opportunities that you have for expanding your portfolio of offerings. So it is not just the one thing, right? It's multiple things altogether.

I

Interviewer6:47:29

Okay. So you're not looking at it that way. Fair enough. Talk to me about BFSI, that's where you've seen sharp recovery. What has led to that and what has worked in this one vertical?

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Salil Parekh6:47:40

Fair enough. So if you look at our recovery, our recovery, not even a recovery, our performance in Q4 was quite broad-based. Manufacturing actually was the fastest growing vertical for us. We also did extremely well in telco, which has been a sort of a home market for us. For BFSI, BFSI candidly is one of our, is our third largest portfolio, but clearly is the largest spender in terms of technology. The way we've gone about it is we've obviously looked at our existing set of accounts and the headroom for growth there. We've opened a number of very promising accounts, Fortune 500 companies which we feel we have the opportunity to scale, and we've really brought in world-class talent from the industry. So I think a combination of these three factors, headroom in existing clients, new client acquisition, and new talent acquisition, I think these three things are helping us, and I'm quite confident that as we move into the current financial year, this tailwind that we've had should continue.

I

Interviewer6:48:35

You know, maybe it's a matter of timing, but I'm asking you another question which is stemming from commentary from one of your peers. Communications is your largest portfolio, and now commentary coming in that discretionary spending is lowering in communications or in telecommunications. Are you seeing this?

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Salil Parekh6:48:53

I think that commentary was very specific to a client or to a set of clients really. As I look at our telecoms portfolio, we do see opportunities for expansion and for growth in the current year, but that's also because our telecom portfolio is structurally different from a lot of our peers. Their telecom portfolio is only in the IT space. We obviously have a significant IT component to our telecoms business, but we also have a large BPS business. We have a very large business in network services, right, and networks really are core to telecoms. We also have a very successful product business in Combiva that has grown at double digits for the past 2 years now. So I do feel that we're feeling optimistic about the opportunities in telecom. There will obviously be client fluctuations and client specific discretionary spends, but our broader portfolio and the fact that we are not dependent on a handful of clients and have broader global coverage should insulate us to a degree.

I

Interviewer6:49:48

Okay. In terms of your deal pipeline looking strong, you've spoken in some detail about some of the new deals or the ongoing deals, Orange, FICO for example. What is the translation to revenues looking like? Can you give us some color there?

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Salil Parekh6:50:03

Yeah. So look, I mean usually these deals take a couple of quarters to ramp up and then to ramp up fully. We expect these deals to follow the same trajectory. It usually takes between 3 to 6 months for the ramp ups to start, and then we're hoping for a healthy uptick from these deals in the remainder of the year.

I

Interviewer6:50:24

When I look at the numbers that have been reported this time, I think the hedging has hit maybe the profit number and there has been a relook at the hedging policy I believe. Can you just give us some more details on that?

S

Salil Parekh6:50:40

Sure. So look, like all the other players, we do hedge our FX exposure, but given the extreme volatility that we've been seeing from a currency perspective, right, we have now started to reduce the tenor of our hedges quite significantly. So from an average of two years, we have come down to an average of one year or less, and that is the way we are dealing with the exposure. It can clearly go both ways. We are not a bank, we're not a treasury operation. We just want to minimize the risk that we have to our earnings from foreign currency volatility.

I

Interviewer6:51:10

Okay. In terms of hiring, as you ramp up your deals, is it going to lead to more hiring because you have a net negative hiring for the year at -6.5%? Is that net negative hiring an impact of larger AI optimization?

S

Salil Parekh6:51:27

Yeah, look, I think first, I think that the net negative number is slightly smaller than that because you've had quarterly variations and you do have a lot of seasonality in our BPS business. I think the way we've been looking at it is a lot of the incremental revenue that we've generated, we've been able to stop it with the efficiency that we're seeing from our fixed price programs, right? I think we are quite clear about the fact that our fixed price programs had some efficiency to deliver, and I think as people get released from that, we've been using them for new projects. Clearly as we see growth, we will be hiring. As our chief operating officer had shared yesterday, even despite a muted growth last year, we did take on over 900 freshers, and we expect to take on more than that in the current year.

I

Interviewer6:52:15

To what extent any kind of outlook that you can give us in terms of more freshers that will come in?

S

Salil Parekh6:52:21

Well, look, we recruited about 6,000 in FY25. We recruited about 900 plus in FY26. I think it would be more than the FY26 number, but certainly less than FY25.

I

Interviewer6:52:35

Okay. So the trajectory is not growing in that sense. It's an important broader point to...

S

Salil Parekh6:52:41

It's growing. It's growing. It's not going to hit an all-time high. That's all.

I

Interviewer6:52:45

Okay. Okay. As we wrap up, I want to get your view on the commentary about how Indian IT companies are standing up against the AI wave. How do you answer some of those questions that I'm sure you're being asked all the time?

S

Salil Parekh6:53:01

Well, look, my sense is that this is an industry that has evolved over time. I've been part of the industry now for nearly 26, 27 years, and I think over time the industry has really deepened its level of ability to play at the technology cutting edge, has developed a very deep understanding of our clients and of our clients' industries, and as AI gets more broadly adopted, as is the need to modernize the existing technology stacks and to build new AI stacks, the industry has a role to play in this transformation and in building a bridge between the old stacks and the new. Thanks.

I

Interviewer6:53:35

Okay. Thank you so much for your time. Mo Joshi there, CEO and MD of Tech Mahindra on the quarter gone by.

S

Salil Parekh6:53:41

Thank you so much.

M

Mahima6:53:45

Hello and welcome. You're watching NDTV Profit. I am Mahima Vasharan, and HS India is in focus on the back of its Q4 earnings. For sure a beat in terms of where growth in cable stands. Lloyds and electronic consumer durables of course did see a drag, and this is on account of Q4 not being a very strong season for consumer durables as a whole, and macro outlook of course will be something that we'll be watching out for in terms of future demand considering competition. But to take this conversation forward, we're joined by Anil Ray Gupta, the chairman and managing director at Havs India. Joining us now, Mr. Gupta, always a pleasure speaking to you. My first question is with regards to cables and wires. You know that's one of your strongest growing segments this quarter. Just want to understand, considering the competition clearly rising, how sustainable do you think this growth is going forward in FY27?

A

Anil Rai Gupta6:54:36

Thank you. I think cables and wires, not only is the demand strong, but also the fact that HS has continued to invest in the capex cycle in the last couple of years, which has given us a good capacity for our industrial cables business, which is underground cables. There we see a fast growth in the entire year in the fourth quarter last year. In fact, the stronger segment, which is the largest segment amongst cables and wires, which is domestic buyers business, did see a revenue flattening in the fourth quarter because of the fact that there were raw material price disruptions and destocking of the channel during the first half of the quarter and also a high base over last year. So I think overall it's a mixed performance and we look forward to the coming year.

M

Mahima6:55:29

With regards to Lloyds as well as your electronic consumer durable segment, of course Q4 is not the strongest quarter right because of delayed summer etc. But now that summers have really picked up, how are you seeing the traction of demand coming in for both of these segments?

A

Anil Rai Gupta6:55:46

I think last year was a dampened year because of the summer season. Inventory was built up at the channel. The consumers were not really picking up the material, and the industry faced huge headwinds in this business. I think going forward, fourth quarter was not really a marker for this because there were channel inventories, but I think going forward in the first quarter, we should see a stronger summer as compared to last year, which would mean a higher growth in this business as well.

M

Mahima6:56:19

Mr. Gupta, with regards to your raw materials, I believe that they will have inflation because of this entire West Asia conflict. Just want to understand as to how much of an uptick have you seen in terms of raw material inflation and how much of that will be impacted in Q1 and Q2 because I believe that to a lot of extent price hikes are going to cater to it, but what is it looking like, what is the scenario looking like right now?

A

Anil Rai Gupta6:56:47

Yeah, I think we are undergoing in this challenging period because we started off the calendar year January with already some raw material hikes in copper, aluminium, silver, but with this West Asia conflict, the other products like petroleum, which directly affects engineering plastics, they also came into purview, and because of this, price hikes are imminent, which has been going on and is continuing. And I think while it may affect, because sometimes the entire cost cannot be passed on, so it may affect the margin, but also I think what we are more concerned about is how it impacts the demand. So we're all looking forward to a reasonable conflict resolution in the West Asia market for markets to settle down and the demands to become normalized in the coming quarters.

M

Mahima6:57:39

Got it. Mr. Gupta, overall if you take a look at the sales growth for FY26 as compared to FY25, it's been a tough year, right? It's seen a growth of around 3 to 4 odd percent. Going forward in FY27, considering demand, considering competition, considering this impact of West Asia conflict as well, what are the growth projections internally that you would have discussed for top line as well as bottom line coming in?

A

Anil Rai Gupta6:58:06

I think last year you're right, the growth was in low single digits also because of the fact that our major portfolios of air conditioners, fans, air coolers, they actually saw a negative revenue growth in the coming in the last year. So going forward, I think this year looks very positive from all points of view, but also from a numbers point of view, if you see, we see price hikes here, we see a good summer, a low base last year, so frankly even if there's a recent growth, I think we'll have to look at two years as a whole of CAGR. So we are expecting a much better growth in the coming year because of these factors what I talked about, but our continued investments in brand distribution and product innovation. So that's the real key for us for our growth drivers in the coming year.

M

Mahima6:59:00

Got it. And for margins, they'll be in the same range as they were in the last 2 years.

A

Anil Rai Gupta6:59:07

We strive for normalized margins, increasing market shares, but as I said, this West Asia conflict is something which is very fast but also temporary hopefully. So let's see how the margins pan out, but our strive will be to recoup our margins through our strong brand, innovation, and distribution.

M

Mahima6:59:32

All right Mr. Gupta, thank you so much for being so candid with your answers and of course taking out the time and speaking with us at NDTV Profit.

A

Anil Rai Gupta6:59:40

Thank you.

M

Mahima6:59:43

L&T Tech actually came out with its numbers, and if you look at what brokerages are saying on this counter, largely they have not changed their stance. ICICI Securities has maintained their hold rating, has marginally cut down the target price to 3,380 from 3,550 the earlier target price. Now they are saying that the company is looking quite robust post the cleanup that they have done. Apart from that, they also say that the portfolio rationalization has dampened the performance in the fourth quarter. They have cut the EPS estimates for FY27 and FY28 by around 5 to 6% on the back of weaker than estimated growth in the high-tech vertical of the company. They also say that FY27 revenue growth will likely be in mid single digit given the fact that there's a strategic change, leadership change, and macro uncertainty also. Now to give us more details on this, we are joined by Amit Chada of L&T Tech. Firstly sir, in the third quarter FY26, management explicitly stated they used that quarter to re-evaluate market trends and consult with their clients to prepare the 5-year strategy starting FY27. So what has Q4 thrown up for you?

A

Amit Chada7:01:00

So what Q4 and the year has thrown up for us? I mean if I also give you a summary numbers here. So we ended up at total revenue for the company ended up at $1.32 billion of revenues. If I look at continuing business, if I may, which is the business that we will take going forward because we have divested a part of our business, we ended up at $1.233 million of continuing operations, up 8.3% year on year. EBIT margins came in at 14.5% and net income came in at 1,281 crores, up 7.4%. Just in the quarter for continuing business, we came in at a net income of about 347 crores, which is up year on year as well as quarter on quarter, 24% up year on year, 9% up quarter on quarter. Overall, mobility has stabilized for us and will grow in FY26. Sustainability is up 13% year on year, and tech has done well, they've grown about 19.7% year on year. North America as a market grew 12% year on year for us, and Europe grew 2.5% year on year, and both of these will continue to grow. Sixth quarter in a row where we have brought in about $200 million of large deal wins. In fact, one deal win is about $75 million over 5 years. And overall thematically, H2 has been better than H1 as we stand today.

M

Mahima7:02:40

Also, can you provide any update on the large deal pipeline size, TCV trajectory, conversion rates, and expected ramp-ups that we are looking in FY27 topline?

A

Amit Chada7:02:51

Sure. So see, look, if I look out, my pipeline today is up 31% year on year, right? And number one, number two is that our large deal wins also as we look forward, I am fairly comfortable with this $200 million per year trajectory. See, the entire large deal wins through the year stood at about $855 million, which is up 40% from last year. So we are entering FY27 on a good note. Margins are up and they should continue to inch upward. Whatever we had to stop doing, we have completed all that in quarter 4, and you will continue to see the continuing business grow quarter on quarter from here on as you go forward. Lastly, we've actually added a $50 million account in our category as well. So after a very long time, a $50 million plus account, and we're sitting on a number of large deals in the three-digit category TCV, two-digit category, and we believe that will help us. Additionally, we have done two more things as we look forward. One, from a headcount standpoint, after a long time, we've added about 500 headcount net headcount in the company. I do believe that as I go forward into the year, I will add another 500 headcount. The number of AI patents has gone up in the company, and we are pivoting on engineering intelligence like I've told you. And finally, we made a little bit of a change, we've actually resonated one of our board members to become the head of strategic initiatives, large deals, and growth markets because we want to focus on that, and we've also inducted a CFO on the board of the company. So those have been in a nutshell what we have just done.

M

Mahima7:04:37

Now that FY27 marks the formal start of a 5-year strategy, can you give us some specific revenue growth band for FY27 in constant currency terms?

A

Amit Chada7:04:48

Sure. So if I look at FY27, you will see the company strive for between 13 to 15% CAGR. So if I look back at the past, if I may, here see, we had grown at about 12.4% CAGR over the last 5 years, which was higher than the industry which grew at about 8%. As I look at the next 5 years, I aspire to deliver between 13 to 15% CAGR over the next 5 years in an EBIT range of 16 to 17%.

M

Mahima7:05:22

But analysts are watching for FY27 guidance as that is the ultimate needle mover. What are you penciling in there?

A

Amit Chada7:05:28

So FY27 will be higher in terms of growth than the organic growth we had in FY26 for sure. But so to be played out, as you are aware, we have stopped giving annual guidance. That's why we are providing a 5-year view, and we're fairly comfortable in this 13 to 15% band in a 5-year period and largely driven by organic growth.

M

Mahima7:05:51

Thank you Mr. Chada. Thank you for joining us and giving us the way forward for L&T Tech.

N

Narrator7:06:22

Hi, I'm Tamana. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories. What happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

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V

Vikram7:07:20

Good evening. I'm Vikram on the big question here on NDTV Profit. Tonight, we're taking on two debates shaping everyday India. Well, the first one is right there. As India tightens the screws on online gambling but loosens the rules for gaming startups, there are consumers who are being left exposed even as these startups are getting a boost. Which is why the one big question tonight and later of course the other big question is this one. Everyone seems to be talking about it. It has gone viral on social media where one lady has unleashed her wrath at a protest rally in Mumbai for holding up traffic during that march. And the question we're asking is when political rallies bring cities to a standstill like this one that happened, should citizens be forced to pay the price? Those are the two big questions. But up front, let's bring up the first debate. And there it is. From the 1st of May, India's online gaming rules 2026, they will officially kick in and they draw a sharp line in the sand. Online real money games are now explicitly banned. Banks and payment gateways can be directed to block transactions and a new online gaming authority of India, the OG AI, that becomes the nodal regulator. But here is where it gets a little more interesting. The government is calling this entire regulation light. The framework they're saying is a light framework. Most non-money games, whether they're casual or social games, they will not require mandatory registration or even prior determination. Esports gets a formal statutory regime with certifications that are valid for 10 years, which means it goes up from the 5 years that was the case earlier. And the rules do mandate strong user safety features. So age verification, parental controls, time limits, grievance redressal, addiction support, all of that? And yet critics are asking this with the minimal oversight and the deemed approvals, is self-regulation enough, especially when free-to-play games can still influence behavior? Which is why tonight we're asking this big question now that we're seeing this boost for startups. Now that is growing up because of the kind of framework that we have for online gaming. Is that increasing the risk for consumers? Let's take it across to our panel and let me introduce you to them. Joining us on the show today is Akshat Rati. He's co-founder and managing director of Nwin Gaming. It's one of India's many esports and gaming companies. He joins us on the show. And on the other side of that debate, Nachiket K Yagnik, the managing associate at Freda Legal, head of the gaming team is joining us as well. Good to have you both with us. Akshat Rati, you know, if most non-money games now operate under deemed approval with little upfront vetting, you think we're effectively asking users to discover harm first themselves and then complain instead of preventing it at the design stage.

A

Akshat Rati7:10:20

I think the best way to go out and answer this is the government's gone and said this is a piece of software, right? And whether you have ChatGPT, whether you have OpenAI and Anthropic, whether you're using Microsoft Excel, whether you use any other software, the government is basically saying a game if it is not an esport and it is not in real money gaming, which are the two outlying conditions, it is a piece of software and you should go ahead and be able to go ahead and try it. They've also gone and said if it goes and becomes big and if it goes and causes harm, which they have kept as a little discretionary for them, they can go ahead and tell you to go ahead and stop it. But what they've done is to take the two big things and remove it from the equation, which is esports and real money gaming.

V

Vikram7:11:04

What do you say, Nachiket? These blanket bans on real money gaming have historically pushed users towards unsafe offshore platforms. So isn't a regulation light regime like the one that we have now for the domestic startups actually the lesser of the two consumer risks?

N

Nachiket Yagnik7:11:20

No. So essentially what the rules do is that they mandate that or like Akshat said earlier, all non-social games, the non-money fortune games will have to be, are allowed to be operated without any registration unless and until there are certain factors such as harm and all. But the banning of online money games has obviously like you pointed out has also led users to explore other avenues such as VPNs and they've also tried to... Yes, yes, carry on. Yeah. So I used to say that essentially what the complete ban does is it also often increases user harm by leading them to explore unregulated platforms such as which don't always have KYC protocols in place or data protection protocols in place. So that's one key that is going to be looked at in the coming days as we understand how these rules will be enforced practically.

V

Vikram7:12:34

Right, so enforced practically how it's going to happen. But Akshat, meanwhile for the startups, these rules clearly improve the ease of doing business, but we've got a fast scaling industry over here. So then you imagine self-regulation realistically keeping pace with the addictive design, with the monetization tweaks, the algorithmic nudges. Is that likely to?

A

Akshat Rati7:12:56

Look, this is a profit channel, right? So NDTV Profit, so let me just actually go ahead and say the way that this would go ahead and open is this one last plant frontier which is the Indian youth consumer is the one that is available for the world to go ahead and fight upon. China's gone and done its way to go ahead and grow the market, and by the way China went through the same process there. China banned edtech after a certain amount of time where it wasn't behaving in the certain way, and China banned real money gaming and gambling systems in China, and other countries have also gone and taken the same view. I think what we will go ahead and do is this will go ahead and give what I call 90% clarity of what works and what doesn't work. And they're fairly clear about gambling is not kosher. Money in and money out is not kosher. There are loot boxes for example, right? Loot boxes is something that the world goes and regulates in different ways. Is it a percentage chance that you have to go ahead and declare? Is there something gacha? It's called the gacha mechanic. Is that something that is good or not good? I think that's where I think the market will evolve, and big value is always created on a certain bit of unambiguity and ambiguity that goes in for people to go ahead and take some arbitrage on. I think those would be the causal outcomes as long as the youth is not being harmed, and I think you know we are one of the biggest youngest nations in the world. I think the responsibility on this is to have responsible behavior, and that's where self-regulation should come in. I think people will go ahead and mark it up once in a while and they should be punished for it.

V

Vikram7:14:24

I like the way you said that we're in it for the profit and that's what the channel stands for as well. But yes, as far as our youth is concerned, we want to safeguard their interest. So with registrations and now you have an online gaming authority, the registrations now are valid for 10 years. So now the authority, the online gaming authority, will it truly have that kind of agility to step in quickly if there is a clean social game that later pivots towards any kind of predatory monetization? Do you think they have the teeth to be able to carry out that?

N

Nachiket Yagnik7:14:55

The rules provide for the OGI to essentially step in, have suo moto, you know it can monitor on its own and ensure that if say a game has been given its certificate of registration and then the algorithm changes to ensure that you know now it starts monetizing the game and there's predatory monetization of the game at all or there are certain algorithmic changes which lead to user harm, then the OGI has the authority to ensure to not only cancel the registration that has been afforded to the game but also relook at the game and go ahead and even prohibit it or ban it if deemed necessary. So I think the rules in theory have enough, give the OGI enough ammo to ensure that the certificate of registration is not misused by the game developers who've gotten it. Again like you said, we're going to see the proof of the pudding when this is actually put in place and is followed in the letter and spirit that it's put forth by the OGI.

V

Vikram7:16:00

But Akshat, the free-to-play doesn't mean risk-free, right? Should addictive mechanics and the in-app purchase pressure be treated as the next major consumer protection challenge even if there is no real money that is wagered here?

A

Akshat Rati7:16:15

So look, most entertainment items, whether it is Netflix that you go ahead and watch or any in-app purchases that you do, whether they are cosmetic or for vanity or for going and leveling up your sword with gold stars on it or whatever, this is going to be a vanity metric for a lot of people. I think the difference between that and addiction is something that will go ahead and evolve as a market goes together. And I think the responsible behavior is looking at the precedence that is everywhere else in the world. I'll go ahead and add some fact which is there. The wording of this is fairly phenomenal where MeitY is the nodal one and you have an additional secretary who's going to be leading this. But look at the other departments, they went and put the Information and Broadcasting Ministry so that people don't do advertising on OTT and on linear television. They went and put the Sports Ministry for sports. They went and did the Finance Ministry so that banks can be told to go ahead and ban any other items that are not being looked at. So the ability to bolt and make sure that it is a literally multimodal framework is one of the more phenomenal ones that you have seen in the world. I work, Nwin works in about 22 countries in the world. I've never seen such multiple departments come together. Will this work? I hope so. But as a construct, I think it is a phenomenal construct. I've actually had words with different people in the world and they are saying this is really good, and a little bit as we always do to go ahead and get the final destination absolutely, but that's the fun part of the game.

V

Vikram7:17:45

Right, to see it in practice of course. The guard railing you say is there, and yet when I look at the rules, Nachiket, these rules rely heavily on grievance redressal, so one wonders if you're shifting the burden of policing harm onto the users rather than onto the platforms, onto the regulator data.

N

Nachiket Yagnik7:18:03

So essentially, obviously grievance redressal, the imposition of grievance redressal systems is paramount to ensure that users can go ahead and point out what is wrong with the platform, but that does not mean that the OGI will not be monitoring how the games operate on their own independent footing as well. Fair point. So the OGI can and will obviously have the power to pull up any game developer irrespective of what the grievance redressal mechanism or that process does. Now it is also interesting to note that the users will also have the ability to take on appeals if they are not satisfied with the grievance redressal mechanism that an online gaming provider has set in place, and they can go ahead and appeal directly to the OGI within 30 days of such decision. So that's also something that is to be considered.

V

Vikram7:18:53

Fair enough. So Akshat, when you look at it from an industry lens, you see this regulation light framework like they're calling it, do you think that is genuinely going to unlock innovation because that's the game of the industry, or do you think it risks future backlash in case public trust is rattled, if it's eroded by a few bad actors. If that happens, then what do you see?

A

Akshat Rati7:19:18

Look, I think the final answer of this is where is big value being created? I think value will be made in developers who will now go ahead and develop with a very clear framework. They'll be able to go ahead and raise capital from external companies in the world who would know that hey, an Indian developer knows this framework. There'll be publishing outcomes both on PC, console, and mobile that will go ahead and come out. There'll also be bigger esports events and investments that would go into infrastructure and deployments there. What would happen in certain parts is someone will make a bad game. Someone will go ahead and make something that is racist. Someone will go ahead and do something that is against the sensor board. And I think that's the power of that multimodal industry which is there. We already have frameworks of content sitting with the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting under the sensor board. I'm not saying they're censoring games, but they already have a framework of content that is available. You will have whether it is SEBI, whether it is the RBI, whether it is MHA, whether it is the Ministry of Sports, they already have these frameworks to go ahead and look at outliers and go ahead and do this. So rather than go ahead and create a whole new statute of laws that would be only under this ministry, they'll use the powers of existing ministries and existing frameworks to go ahead and make sure that the definition is extremely clear for people to go ahead and create value. So if you make mistakes...

V

Vikram7:20:40

So if you consider all the points that you're making right now, Akshat, do you think India is likely to build a globally competitive gaming and esports market without compromising on consumer safety, or there is some level of risk that is inevitable in innovation-driven sectors like gaming?

A

Akshat Rati7:20:57

I think it's my, I look, AI is the flavor of the year. So I'm going to go ahead and take an example. I think AI can be used for great harm and great good. I think we will go ahead and be, we should go ahead and be building for India, and I think the Prime Minister when he was at V said it clearly. We should go ahead and build the cultural power of soft power which Bollywood had. We think we can go ahead and do it with gaming, and I think we can go ahead and take it not only for a captive market in India for gamers which is 500-600 million big, but also for the world where we can go ahead and take these frameworks and tell other emerging markets that this is in the global south that this is how to go ahead and build gaming sustainably and responsibly. I think this is a great idea to go ahead and do this. I keep saying this, it's the 1990. I think it's great for 90% of the people. It's okay for 9% of the people, and 1% of the people will mark it up and then we have to go and watch out for them.

V

Vikram7:21:46

Right? So the system has what it takes to be able to get those checks and balances, at least that's the larger takeaway, and yes innovation has to be balanced against user safety as well, and that's something else that is work in motion, but a crucial debate on innovation versus oversight. My thanks to Akshat Rati of Nwin Gaming, Nachiket Yagnik from Kreda Legal. Thanks very much. So as far as viewers are concerned, yes, India's gaming rules may boost these startups, but their real test is going to be on whether consumer safety evolves as fast as the industry does. But now on to the second big question that we are posing this evening. So yes, as far as the rules are concerned, as far as gaming is something that we're talking about, we've seen that happen. But now things are changing and very rapidly. So what is happening right now is this lady who has gone out and spoken her mind. Our second big question tonight is from that moment that has gone viral. It struck a chord with millions of urban Indians. It's a political rally in Mumbai. It has choked roads. There was complete traffic disruption, ultimate chaos. One angry citizen, you're seeing her on your screens. She had had enough. Just listen in. Just listening to what had happened over there.

W

Woman7:23:00

Get out of here. Before you allow the damn traffic. Okay, get out of here. Did you not understand? Did you not understand?

M

Man7:23:42

No. No. What is wrong with you? They're all a mix. Hundreds of people waiting. There is an empty ground there.

V

Vikram7:23:50

So there you're seeing it in that video. You're seeing a lady in Mumbai. This lady confronting a state minister demanding to know why a political rally was allowed to block those public roads and derail daily life. And this isn't an isolated incident. You've seen the Maratha reservation protests, the bans in Kolkata, the Cauvery disputes in Karnataka, the Jallikattu protests in Chennai, and yes Telangana as well. Those agitations took place in Hyderabad. Even the high security lockdowns during the G20, public life in Indian cities repeatedly being disrupted in the name of politics. But this time the public response was loud and clear. In fact, our social media poll is showing that political rally should not be allowed on busy city roads. 100% of the votes are against that. And we asked if the woman was justified in confronting the minister. 60% of the people who polled are saying yes. So the remaining 40 of course they say that both sides are to blame. But really it brings us to the big question tonight. When you're talking about political rallies and our public life, should citizens be the ones paying the price? We have urban planner and public policy expert Rishi Arab joining us on this and Kushbu Jen is an advocate at the Supreme Court of India. So let's get into this debate. Rishi, when a city like Mumbai is brought to a halt even for a few hours, there is an economic cost in lost productivity, in fuel wastage, in business disruption. How do you see it?

R

Rishi Arab7:25:12

Absolutely. I mean Mumbai being a business city, it's always the economic aspect which comes into mind. I don't think we really appreciate or sympathize with the amount of stress under which Mumbaikars live on a daily basis. So I think the health impact on Mumbaikars, the stress impact is huge, and all of that can also be quantified as an economic impact. But just the pure financial numbers, I think it is terrible the amount of time which gets wasted in traffic jams. Meetings are disrupted. People cannot schedule meetings. Mumbai as we all know is very a stickler for time, and time is money over here. So if you're going to waste time like this on some reason or the other, and political rallies are just one reason. I mean the traffic management is anyways terrible, and so all of these things really add up. I mean if we want to be a $5 trillion economy or whatever $1 trillion economy, we need to really value the time of people and we can't treat these kind of matters in such a shabby, irresponsible manner.

V

Vikram7:26:15

But I would imagine Kushbu Jen saying that the right to protest is a constitutional right. Kushbu, where does it end when it directly interferes with the right to work and the free movement of other citizens?

K

Kushbu Jen7:26:27

I think see, both of them are right when it comes to right to protest when it comes to your democracy. You do as a citizen have a right to protest, but at the same time as a citizen we enjoy other rights in the constitution, and that right is right to freely move around. That right is right to work. That right is to right to reside and freely move wherever you want to reside. Now if these rights have been disrupted and disrupted for a long, there has been so many judgments, plethora of judgments passed by the High Court and several passed by the Supreme Court and several High Courts where they have stated if this disruption has costed life or has disrupted the life of the people or costed some financial or livelihood difficulty, then state should be at the cost. There has been so many judgments on that given by the courts, and I think the Chamara Soy judgment which is utilized everywhere clearly has put across that there was a man because of some blockade obstruction that was there because of the road blockade. The person was not able to take his son to the hospital and he lost his son's life, and that's where the court said that you need to compensate as a state to the father, but at the same time said that there has to be a mechanism. You will have to also understand one more point over here that we do have laws in place, the acts in place which says that if you want to do, though it is your right to protest, there can be a designated place where you can do the protest, but also it doesn't tell you that you can't do protest on the road, but you need to take a permission from the police, and after the permission is given is where you can do that, but if permission is not given, the police is duty bound to make sure that the disruption or that blockade is removed, and I think that's where the whole question should lie, whether the permission was given or whether the permission was sought. Number one, whether the permission was given, and after that if this has continued, why disruption part when a city like Mumbai on a normal day, whether there was no other public space possible for them to do the protest. We are living in the age of technology or social media. You can very well utilize those gardens or those maidans, do the protest and put it across on.

V

Vikram7:28:31

Let me take that across to Rishi. Rishi, these designated protest spaces, you think they are poorly utilized? Should policy mandate that large political gatherings be restricted to those zones? Is that something that is not happening and should?

R

Rishi Arab7:28:46

I've seen enough amount of political protest or public protest at Azad Maidan over 25 years, and let me tell you that it's a very poor cousin to the kind of protest which you end up seeing on streets. And obviously everybody wants to be on the streets for a certain reason because the street is a political space. The Azad Maidan, nobody's watching you. You are in a, you could be partying over there or protesting over there, nobody cares. So the street, I can understand, is a place which really disrupts activity and is visible in the face. Having said that, let me also add to what Kushbu was saying, but generally also that I think there are very few genuine public protests in India. Honestly, these are all very cynical politically organized protests. We all know how the protesters are gathered, how people transport is provided, other incentives is provided. So there is very little genuine public protest in India anyways. You don't have things like what has happened in Ireland recently or happens in France or happens in Korea. Unions come in big force and there are a lot of membership based unions. Those kind of things don't happen. So these kind of protests honestly I don't even attach much of importance to, these are very cynical.

V

Vikram7:29:57

And the economic fallout that you were talking about, Rishi, these disruptions, do they disproportionately hurt the gig workers, the small businesses, the logistics, you know, while the political power centers remain insulated, and that is the grievance of citizens?

R

Rishi Arab7:30:13

Absolutely, absolutely. You can just imagine a city like Mumbai on an hourly, on an every minute basis, deliveries are happening by gig workers, whether it is home essentials or whether it is food or whatever you are, and imagine with this kind of a thing, thousands of gig workers orders would have been just immediately disrupted. There would have been absolute chaos. I mean they would be receiving calls, orders getting cancelled, money to be refunded, so many things. I mean this is not...

V

Vikram7:30:39

What should one do, Kushbu Jen? Should city administrations be held legally liable when crowd control, when traffic management failures happen and those impact public life at the kind of scale that we are looking at? Should they be legally liable? What does the law provide for in this case? You did mention one case, but now we're not looking at extremities. We're talking about disruptions that clearly damage public life, daily life that we are talking about which the city and its economic wheels cannot afford.

K

Kushbu Jen7:31:10

Absolutely. I think if in principle I have to give you an answer, yes, there should be a compensation jurisprudence in public law that already supports liability for failure to discharge positive duties on the state. But at the same time, if you look into it, whether it is there, it is not there. It is case to case basis specifically where a severe harm is caused and you are able to prove the harm is where the judgments have been passed. But we should not even wait for the judgment to come in place that you know I have to go to the court to seek something which is already provided in the constitution to me and which is already a duty of the law enforcement agency or the state to look into when it comes to public order, when it comes to providing me free movement on the roads. And I think this is where we need to build in a broader compensatory jurisprudence.

S

Speaker 17:31:53

Around these roadblocks or things that have been happening, and I think the earlier panelist was superb on the point that it is no more that right that was being given in a democratic state to protest. This has literally been some invested parties who want to have their invested agendas put across, and that's what has been happening. And I think that's where we need to move to the aspect which is not just compensatory, but compensatory and at the same time the element of making it mandatory that it be in designated spaces, not on the roads. Because I'll give you one small example. I'm sorry, Vikram, I'm running my own office, but let's say I'm working in an organization. There is always a punch in and punch out. I reach late, I'm not being given the thing. I have a flight to catch. Will they pay me compensation for that 5,000 rupees? Will I go and sue in court? These are the answers.

S

Speaker 27:32:52

So at the end of the day, Kushbu, who owns the city during the working hours? Is it the citizen, is it the economy, is it the political class? I mean, this is turning out to be a very mood question. If I have to answer, enjoyment, it is a citizen who has to enjoy the growth of the city. The economy of the city or the punishment, but at the same time, the duty comes on the state. The duty comes on the law enforcement agencies to make sure that there is a non-obstructive peacefulness in the city without any disruption. I think here, one more example I want to put across, and I don't know whether it will be a happy example. You look into the aspect of when it comes to an ambulance. Forget the ambulance, if a minister has to go somewhere, they practically have 10 cars ahead of them and 10 cars behind them, and they block everything and move ahead. If their work is important, this work is important, and if this obstruction can create a problem, let's say tomorrow to America to reach a place, will there not be an issue? There will be an issue.

S

Speaker 17:33:50

So in a democracy, everyone is to be equal, and that is getting challenged. So this debate cuts to the heart of urban life. There is democratic responsibility. Of course, there is going to be much more of this in the future where we kind of pin down the issues and the possibilities of being able to tackle it. But my thanks to Rishi Agarwal and Kushwan for joining us with their perspectives tonight. Running out of time, but yes, the takeaway is that democracy as far as India is concerned, yes, there are checks and balances. Democracy needs space for protest definitely. But when it affects our daily life, our public life, if it gets disrupted and hits at our economy, that's when things get a trifle difficult and we have to find real solutions. That's what this show is here for. The big question on any TV profit. I'm Mikosa. Thanks for joining us.

T

Tamana7:35:12

Hi, I'm Tamana. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories. What happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

N

Nidat Sha7:35:25

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M

Mahima Arajani7:36:05

Hello and welcome to KYC, that is Know Your Company. I'm Mahim Avatarani and let's try to figure out what company we are going to decode today for you, our viewers as well as people who invest in a lot of stocks. But let's try to guess the company that we're going to talk about. The first one, let's try to pull up this slide and see leadership in the Mangal Sutra segment. This company basically holds the leadership in terms of the B2B segment in the Mangal Sutra segment. Listed on September 17th, 2025, so a fairly recent listing that we are talking about. The stock is up 29% from its IPO price, and that's not been the case for a lot of IPOs that have been recently listed in the past six odd months. Following now into the gold bridal jewelry, which is a high margin business and also a high value business, which is going to give them leverage going forward considering the manufacturing capacity also that they have. So that's the guess the company part. Let's try to understand which is the company we are exactly talking about. We are talking about Shingar House of Mangal Sutra. With regards to this company, what it does and what exactly is the manufacturing capacity and the exact flow of manufacturing for this one. Basically, it specializes in design, production, distribution of Mangal Sutra, both in terms of B2B and it also gives it to retailers. So 15 distinct collections and more than 10,000 active SKUs is what the company has in terms of only Mangal Sutras right now. In terms of prominent customers, big names are there: Titan, Reliance Retail, Nova Jouri, Joel Lucas, Malaba Gold. All of these are the clients for Shingar House. Now the company also serves 34 corporate clients, 1,089 wholesalers and 81 retailers. So it's a complete B2B business that it does in Mangal Sutras. The company is focusing now on the high value added jewelry segment going forward. In terms of where the capacity goes, it has around 2,500 kg per annum capacity and also has an integrated manufacturing facility that it does. So completely in-house manufacturing is what it has, and that too an integrated one. In terms of the key news coming in, I think an astute investor, S. Ayar, has acquired five lakh shares on 22nd of April. So this was a big news coming in, that's why we saw movement in the stock price as well. The company is now diversifying into gold bridal jewelry, like I mentioned earlier as well. It's a high value business and high margin business as well. In terms of where the other news aspect is concerned, the company is also shifting its manufacturing capacity from Lower Parel to Kandi Valley. So that's also another news to keep in focus and keep in mind. Now in terms of how the industry is faring, overall India's wholesale gold jewelry, as per data from various sources, the segment is expected to reach around 48,900 crore by calendar year 29, and this suggests a CAGR growth of anywhere between 9 to 10 odd percent. And this is the CAGR growth that we are talking about from calendar year 24 to 29. So that's the CAGR growth at which the entire industry is growing, but the company is growing at a much faster pace. Now strong HNI interest is also there in the counter, and in terms of volumes as well, we've seen good growth coming in as to where the share price action is concerned. A strong distribution network is helping it in cross-selling also going forward when it diversifies into high value and high margin business of bridal jewelry. And the other reason as to why it is in a sweet spot is because larger order wins are expected from corporate clients going forward once it diversifies, plus its existing business as well. And the company is targeting the unorganized sector and underserved tier 2 to tier 4 markets. So I think the focus more right now is from tier 2 to tier 4 markets, and that will give the company an overall leverage going forward in terms of its distribution and its selling opportunities as well. Now let's try to take a look at what are the parameters that we're going to talk about in this segment. The first one that we're going to pick up is the income statement, followed by balance sheet, then cash flow, and then return ratios. And then we're also going to talk about how the shareholding pattern is for the company, followed by street cred as to how the account has performed so far since listing, valuation metrics, as well as what's the outlook going forward. And then we'll also be speaking to the management of the company to understand what the outlook of the company looks like. But let's start talking about the first parameter, the income statement. In fact, like I said, we'll be speaking to Virat Tareshwar, who's the MD and CEO of Shingar House of Mangal Sutra, going forward. But let's start talking about the parameters. The income statement first. Now, if you take a look at the last 3-year CAGR growth in terms of where revenues stand, it's been a strong growth of 21%. EBITDA growing at almost 45% three-year CAGR, and net profit has seen a growth of 46% CAGR. Now a lot of this growth in the past 2 years has also come in with rising gold prices. Because of gold prices going up, we've seen a lot of value growth coming in. But we'll try to understand from the management as to how volume growth has also fared. Now because we've seen strong CAGR growth in the past 3 years, we've given it a thumbs up. In the past 9 months also, the company has done fairly well, revenue growth of 41% year-on-year basis. For EBITDA growth, it's even stronger as compared to how its year CAGR has been, like a 65% growth, and net profit growth at 76%, much better as compared to what it's done in the past 3 years. In terms of margins, I think this is where the pain point is because margins have been reducing for them, but them foraying into other segments might improve their margins going forward. So that's with regards to where the income statement goes. But let's try to take a look at the balance sheet aspect as well, as to how the balance sheet has been in the past five odd years. In terms of where the balance sheet goes overall from a perspective of share capital perspective, we've seen that it got listed recently in September 25. In terms of reserves, they've been growing in the past 3 years from 128 crore to almost an increase of 500 crore. So they've been reserving whatever profits they're making. Even in terms of total equity, that aspect has also gone up because of reserves going up. Borrowings have also slightly increased. So we try and understand from the management as to why these borrowings have gone up, and this is largely on account of both short-term and long-term, short-term largely on account of working capital, but we'll try to understand what the repayment plans are looking like. Cash and bank balance is an area of concern. And we'll try to ask the management if there is any fundraising on the cards considering the expansion that they're planning, because overall cash balance has remained in that range of just 3 to 4 odd crores. So that's with regards to where the balance sheet goes. Now let's try to pull up the cash flow statement as well. This is the third metric that we're going to talk about. In terms of the cash flow statement, cash flow from operations has turned negative in FY25 and has also stayed negative in September 25, and considering 9 months at a negative 7%, the year will also close at that negative number as well. But overall PAT has seen a good increase, but cash flow to PAT ratio has been on a negative footing, so I think that is an area of concern. We'll also speak to management about it. But overall, even net cash flows has been on a negative footing, and that's why we've given it a thumbs down. Now let's try to pull up the return ratios aspect and see how they have been. A healthy return ratio has been largely maintained in that range of 20 to 24%. So your ROCE has been stable and has been at that 24% mark in the last 3 to 4 odd years. So I think there's no area of concern here, and we've simply given it a thumbs up when it comes to the return ratios. Now let's try to see the street cred of this company, as to how the company has done when it comes to the share performance since its listing and as to how the entire performance has been like. But before we talk about that, let's try to take a look at the shareholding pattern as well. There is skin in the game when it comes to the promoters because promoters have been constantly holding 75% into this counter, and it doesn't look like they're going to reduce their holding. But FII holding, there is FII interest coming in from 4% just during listing, it's gone up to 6% in just a matter of two quarters. DIIs of course have been selling and FIIs have been buying that. So from a 4% in September 25, DII holding has come down to around 2 odd percent. Public holding remains fairly stable around that 17 to 20% mark. As of March 26, it stood at 17 odd percent. So that's with regards to how shareholding goes, but there's skin in the game and that is why we've given a thumbs up. Let's try to pull up the street cred like I was talking about. From the listing, of course, it's down 19%, and this is considering the way markets have moved in the last couple of months. But overall from its IPO price, it's up 29%. And from 2026 low, it's up 26%. So there is gain coming in from 2026 low as well. And that means that it's showing high investor interest in this counter. Just to point out here that IPOs in the recent past six to eight months have not done very well. As compared to that, at least this IPO has seen gains of 29% versus its issue price. So that's with regards to where street cred goes. Let's try to pull up the valuations. This is an interesting aspect because overall if you take a look at the valuations of all these jewelers, Titan is trading at an 80 times PE right now. Thangamayil at 49 times. Kalyan Jewelers at 36 times. And this as compared to Shingar just trading at 21 times. So valuations as compared to where peers are concerned is much more attractive for something like a Shingar House Mangal Sutra. And considering that it's growing at a very fast pace at a very good CAGR, valuations right now are justified at where they stand. Let's try to then look at how the outlook of the company looks like in the coming years and near future as well. They are diversifying into gold bridal jewelry, and that's certainly a thumbs up because, like I said, it's a high value, high margin business which is certainly going to benefit the margins for the company. Plus, it's targeting the unorganized sector that is tier 2 to tier 4, where there's a lot of unorganized sector that's playing its part in different ways. I think organizing it is going to definitely benefit the company. Third-party facilitators are onboarded to drive scale from here on, and that is something that is going to augur growth for the company going forward as well. Lastly, in terms of where the outlook stands in terms of expanding, the company's planning to expand to five cities and has identified more for further rollout as well. So the company is not just planning to diversify into segments, also planning to expand in terms of where geographies are concerned. Plus, it's also building a strong presence going forward when it comes to their overall presence. But this is with regards to where the outlook goes. Let's try to now see how the cumulative ratings look like of all the eight parameters that we talked about. The first one being income statement. We've given it a thumbs up. Good CAGR growth in terms of revenue, EBITDA as well as net profit. Margins of course still a concern, but overall balance sheet is a thumbs down because cash position is at a very thin lining, plus there's borrowings which is growing. So we talked to management about that. Cash flow, we've seen negative cash flow in FY25, operating cash flow negative in FY25 as of September ending as well, and that's why we've given it a thumbs down. Return ratio is very positive, very healthy, near that 22 to 24% mark. So giving it a thumbs up. Shareholding also a thumbs up because there's skin in the game. 75% held by promoters, plus FII seeing an increase in stake. Street cred is slightly a thumbs down because overall if you take a look at the picture as to how it's off from the high point, we've seen some pressure coming in the stock. Valuation's definitely a thumbs up, much better as compared to where the peers go, and that's why we've given it thumbs up. And outlook most certainly a positive one because the company's planning to expand into segments as well as geographies coming in. So the total rating that we've given this counter is five out of eight. So that's the overall rating with regards to how Shingar House of Mangal Sutra goes. But let's try to get the management in as well. We are now joined by the management. Sir, my first question to you with regards to what we talked about. We've been talking about how you've seen significant growth in the past three odd years. I just wanted to first understand, now that you're trying to foray into this bridal jewelry that we talked about, it's a high value business plus high margin business as well, if I'm not wrong. What is the foray looking like? What are the plans to grow the segment as a whole?

V

Virat Teshwar7:49:36

Hi, good morning. So the point about the bridal jewelry. As you know, we have been in the Mangal Sutra segment for over decades, and for us to grow, being a Mangal Sutra, it is the most key product in bridal jewelry. So for us to grow in this segment, bridal jewelry was a must-do point because the customers we have, currently we have more than a thousand customers who are constantly consistently working with us, and we are growing with them. And these customers are not only just unorganized players but giants and organized players as well. So in the entire process of growing, even these customers are growing big, and we want to grow with them. So Mangal Sutra is a key product for us. But to grow multiple times, we have to increase our product categories. So the bridal category was a big demand from our customers to us, as they are seeing a good rise in the bridal jewelry category. So we have already started developing and selling bridal jewelry in the market, and we are in tie-ups with all the big jewelers, the corporates, the single chain stores, and single stores. Bridal jewelry, if we talk, it's more than 40 to 45% of the total jewelry market. So that is a big jump we are looking at, and with the existing customers, we are hoping and we are positive that it will give us a very good boost in terms of growth and in terms of profit returns as well.

M

Mahima Arajani7:51:22

Okay. Virat, with regards to where your overall margins are concerned, they've been slowly and steadily growing. But I wanted to get a sense, considering that the gold prices have shot up a lot with the overall condition in the West Asia conflict as well, where do you see your margins going? Plus, you're entering the bridal jewelry space. What are the margins going to look like going forward? Is there going to be a steady pace of growth going forward as well, or are they going to be in that range of 6 to 7%?

V

Virat Teshwar7:51:55

So when we talk about bridal jewelry, of course it is a high profit fetching category.

M

Mahima Arajani7:52:02

Correct.

V

Virat Teshwar7:52:04

So the other reason also to get into bridal jewelry is that the industry is growing, the category is growing, and with the new manufacturing setup we have just recently started, we are looking at producing much more high value products which can fetch us more profit. And with the new setup, we have not only increased the production capacity, but we have also increased the quality of the product, the range of the product, and the high range of the product, which can fetch us better margins and also give our customers a better quality and a top-notch product.

M

Mahima Arajani7:52:36

Virat, with regards to where your capacity utilizations go, they've dropped a tad bit in FY25 as compared to where they were in FY24, if I'm not wrong. What are the capacity utilizations looking like right now, and going forward in FY27, what is the expectation in terms of how they will fare?

V

Virat Teshwar7:52:57

So when we talk about the capacity utilization, I think it was nearly around 70% in the previous years. And with the new setup coming in, we have almost doubled our capacity, and not only just that, at the same time we have increased another category with a new manufacturing setup. So we are looking at bigger volumes, bigger sales, and majority utilization of the capacity. And with the existing customers, the name of the customers you see and the growth they are showing, I'm really positive that the growth ratio is going to be maintained and it will increase in future as well.

M

Mahima Arajani7:53:42

Got it. Virat, with regards to your borrowings, the long-term borrowings have reduced to quite an extent, right? They're almost negligible right now. But in terms of short-term borrowings, I reckon that this is on account of your working capital requirements. But this is compared to where your cash net cash flow position stands at right now and cash balance basically where it stands right now. Do you think that going forward, to maybe fund your working capital requirements or maybe fund your expansion, you'll be needing funds? So are you looking for any fund raise going forward?

V

Virat Teshwar7:54:13

So currently we are going phase by phase. We are not going to rush into borrowings a lot right now. But as you know, the working capital we require increases with the increase in gold rate. The more the rate increases, the more capital we require. So currently, looking at the existing working capital, I feel that we are more than ready for the market and for the current season and ongoing business processes as well. So in the future, I'm not too sure about increasing borrowings, but yes, to increase revenue and profits in the existing working capital, that has been a key motto for us right now.

M

Mahima Arajani7:54:58

Okay. And what is the store expansion plans looking like going forward in terms of the growth plans going forward in FY27?

V

Virat Teshwar7:55:06

So as you know, in the last financial year, we have added two new stores, one in Delhi, one in Pune, and Bombay, which is a key main corporate store which we have. So currently we are in the process of increasing the revenue and scaling up in the existing stores only. And probably once we achieve that, hopefully this year or probably next financial year, we are planning further more stores coming up. But at the same time, not only expansion through stores, but also through a facilitators module, which means that by not opening stores, we can also make our reach to that particular city or that particular state using that module. We are aggressively going towards that, and if we see a potential in another city, fully we may plan and also go ahead for other cities and more stores.

M

Mahima Arajani7:56:06

Virat, with regards to where your growth is concerned, how much of it is coming from value growth versus volume growth? Because the price of gold has really gone up, right? So what's the kind of volume growth that you've seen in FY26, and going forward, what is the kind of growth that you're penciling in for FY27?

V

Virat Teshwar7:56:27

So definitely the focus has been volume growth for us, because value growth is definitely there and we will be seeing it in the flowing numbers over the years with the gold rate increasing. But the main focus for us is volume growth also. So we are dedicatedly, our entire team, let it be the sales team which we have been increasing, the entire management team, the manufacturing team, to make it more organized and more productive, we are working towards how to increase the volume growth also. So the bridal category which we have introduced lately, that will be a key point for us in volume growth. And we are expecting good volume from this new category.

M

Mahima Arajani7:57:19

Virat, with regards to where gold prices go, considering the volatility in gold prices, what is the hedging strategy in place right now? How much hedging do you do, and how do you cover yourself against that volatility?

V

Virat Teshwar7:57:32

Yes, we have always been following a hedging policy, and we are going to maintain it at the same place because in such a volatile market, we want to focus more on production and sales rather than focusing on any other aspect. So the hedging policy is maintained. Currently we are having a 40% hedging policy, and that is going to be maintained and we will keep up to it.

M

Mahima Arajani7:57:58

Virat, as per recent developments coming in, there was gold imports that were stuck because of a new DGFT coming in. What's the progress that's happened there? Now, do gold imports have an easy free flow, or is gold still stuck there, and any impact on your business because of that?

V

Virat Teshwar7:58:15

So being in jewelry since a very long time, several decades, the channel we follow for material procuring, we don't rely on only one source. We have several sources from where we procure our gold bullion. So we never saw any big challenge coming in in terms of procuring raw material or gold. So because of the system we follow, because of the multiple channels we follow for our supply and we depend on them, it has never been a challenge for us.

M

Mahima Arajani7:58:48

And with regards to the West Asia conflict, any exposure that you have in the Middle East? Has that been impacted at all?

V

Virat Teshwar7:58:57

So of course, in the last one month, we have seen the Middle East being disturbed. But Shingar, 98% of its revenue comes only from India. So we are mainly dependent on India, and only 2% comes from abroad. So of course there has been certain disturbance, but at the same time, we have seen a seasonal growth in the same period. Right now, there's been an Akshaya Tritiya season recently, so that has been a very key season and a good season, I would say, as I saw a good flow of customers coming in. So maybe it's all covered up because my focus has always been, Shingar's focus has always been the domestic market. But of course, we are focusing on the overseas market as well. So not only UAE, currently we are supplying to the US, we are supplying to the UK, we are supplying to New Zealand, and several other countries. So the exposure is so vast that the volume compensation comes from all over the country and from outside.

M

Mahima Arajani8:00:04

And Virat, what is the ratio like right now in terms of your supply, I mean your exports versus your domestic sales, and how will that dynamics change going forward?

V

Virat Teshwar8:00:14

See, like I mentioned, 98% comes from the domestic market. But now with the new category coming in, it will be a very key point and a strong point for us to step into the overseas market, as we will now be able to go to our customers with a vast range, not just only Mangal Sutra but other categories as well. So that will 100%, I feel, help us penetrate better in the market and get more and more volumes and sales from our customers. So the new category will not only increase in India but also from overseas.

M

Mahima Arajani8:00:52

Hey Virat, thank you so much for helping us answer all those questions, and that too so candidly, and of course taking out the time and speaking with us at NDTV Profit. All right. So viewers, you heard the management. That was Virat Tareshwar, the MD and CEO of Shingar House of Mangal Sutra. But with that, we are completely out of time on this edition of KYC. But do stay tuned for more news updates on the other side.

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Tamana8:01:43

Hi, I'm Tamana. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories. What happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

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Narrator8:02:28

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Speaker 18:03:29

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Narrator8:03:46

Parag Takar and Kosh Bhora are now part of the morning crew with Tamana, Niraj, and Alex. Same show, sharper voices every morning on India Market Open. Your favorite market show just got better on NDTV Profit for your profit.

When the headlines move fast, perspective matters. On Editor's Cut, our editors come together with experts to distill the week's information plates into clear perspective. Down the stories shaping the world. From markets and economy to global conflicts and what lies ahead. This is where experience meets insight.

Infosys. Fourth quarter performance comes in line with market expectations. Net profit surges 28%, but constant currency sees the sharpest fall in four quarters. Companies say CC growth fell due to delays in March and seasonality. Nifty ends in red for the second straight day, settles below 24,200 levels. Broader markets outperformed the benchmarks. Pharma outshines sectoral gainers while auto leads the decline. Sources tell NDTV Profit that banks have flagged cyber security threat from Anthropic's new AI model Mythos. DFS addresses the Mythos concern. According to sources, finance minister meets with banks on AI concerns. Fresh escalations in Middle East as Trump orders navy to shoot any boat laying mines, and crude oil is ripping higher as diplomacy stalls. Brent crude past $102 per barrel mark. As Indian delegation wraps up 3 days negotiations on BTA with Washington, MEA says both sides are working towards a balanced, mutually beneficial and forward-looking trade agreement. While Jamieson Greer calls India a tough nut to crack. ED conducts searches at 12 locations in Panchula Municipal Corporation 145 crore fraud case. Court of Mahindra bank officials under scanner. Bumper voting in Tamil Nadu and West Bengal. Over 90% cast vote in West Bengal first phase with over 84% voter turnout. Tamil Nadu records the highest polling. Warner Brothers Discovery shareholders approved the $10 billion merger with Paramount Sky Dance, clearing a major hurdle for one of Hollywood's biggest consolidation deals. Indian cheese goes global by bagging four medals including super gold at Brazil event. PM Modi applauds historic milestone. Winner Mosam Narang calls for more acceptance of artisanal cheeses.

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Speaker 18:07:27

Hello and welcome to India Business Report. The show is your one-stop destination for prime time where there is not just news but also views and perspectives from the world of political economy, business and global affairs. Today we bring you a special edition of IBR from China. My colleague Gori Dwei will give you all the latest updates. Over to you, Gori.

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Speaker 28:07:49

Hello and welcome. You're watching India Business Report. I'm Gori Di. This is a broadcast that's coming to you live from Beijing. It's a power-packed show that we have for you. And the big story, the top story that we are focusing this evening for you continues to be the massive uncertainty that has come to light after Anthropic AI software had, and there are reports indicating that there are potential and huge potential risks with regard to cyber security and that throws up question marks for the banking sector and financial system. Investors are legitimately concerned about whether the system can actually withstand and is cyber secure or not. Those are concerns that are being voiced in India as well. In fact, let's play out that very important sound bite for you to really put this in perspective and to really tell you how the government is also now monitoring this situation.

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Speaker 38:08:41

Banks are concerned about the abilities of Anthropic's new AI model Mythos and its ability to find vulnerabilities in almost every major operating software. The model actually found a bug that had existed for 27 years reportedly, which was not found. Banks say that their processes, their internal processes, tech processes, data, every aspect of their tech infrastructure, if there is any vulnerability and this model is able to spot it, then they may not have enough time to plug the loopholes. Banks are also in talks with the RBI about this, and RBI on its part is engaging with global regulators including the Bank of England, and we understand the Bank of Japan is scheduled to hold a meeting soon to identify risk associated with this new AI model. Banks, as we are aware, are the most vulnerable to any cyber attack because they have a lot of data with regard to depositors' funds, related party transactions, loan dispersal, so on and so forth. Banks have a lot of APIs which are linked to FinTech and other third parties also wherein if a bug is found, it can be spotted by this particular model, and banks therefore are very cautious about this new development and are engaging in conversations to counter it.

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Speaker 48:10:07

Everybody is talking about it. That is also another both threat as well as opportunity for the fintech industry to experiment what actually can be done to address this. We have three strategic outcomes for Vision 2030. We are all clear that growth alone will not be enough for the country. What we need is growth that is deeply financed, widely accessible and sustainably supported.

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Speaker 58:10:37

Absolutely. What we're picking up from government sources is that a meeting was chaired by the finance minister today. This was of course in relation to the various concerns that banks have put forth to the regulator as well as the government. What we're picking up from the government is that they have taken and addressed these issues. What they are trying to do is now sort of understand what exactly is the scope of all of these things. This is a very, very new development even for the ecosystem. Even global regulators haven't really sort of assessed the entire impact of the situation, so the Indian government alongside the banks has taken this up on an urgent basis as well. What we can also expect is some sort of a statement to come out later in the day from the finance minister's office with regards to what was discussed in the meeting. What we also can gather is that general cyber security and artificial intelligence themes were also discussed at the meeting. There were also officials from the Ministry of Electronics and IT present at the meeting. Apart from the certain officials, CERT-In, which is essentially the government's cyber security arm, was also present in the meeting. What we're picking up is that of course the DFS secretary was also a part of this meeting. So a high level meeting was called today. Most details will be out hopefully by evening today. We'll see more and more clarity come in on what exactly was discussed, but that's what we have on this entire Anthropic AI Mythos issue so far.

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Speaker 28:12:12

In top corporate news, IT giant Infosys has come out with its fourth quarter results. They've been better than expectations. It's been a 27.8% quarter-on-quarter increase in terms of profitability. The top line was in line with about a 2% increase, again broadly in line with expectations. But the larger, the big story really is that the company has widened its full-year revenue guidance at the lower end of the band. What does this really mean? What should the street now be looking for in terms of the commentary that's come in and what it means for the company going forward? All of that being best put into perspective by my colleague Jasmid who tracks this sector very closely for you, and also listen in to what exactly the management said there.

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Speaker 68:12:59

Well, thank you for that. We look at the key numbers. They have come in line with the estimate, but the guidance is somewhere, the overall state has still remained cautious. If you look at the key guidance for FY27, it is between 1.5 to 3.5%, but whereas the street was estimating the guidance anywhere between 2 to 4 odd percent. Though they have still maintained the upper band of the guidance at 3.5%, what was in the previous quarter, but the lower band has gone quite lower and it's near 1.5 on the back of that macro uncertainties, which is something that will create a lot of fear in terms of the investors' view going ahead. If you look at the other key details, the overall CC growth is down 1.3%, which is below the terms of estimate. We were estimating a downtick between 1.8 to 1.1%, but it's down 1.3 odd percent, the largest fall in last four quarters. Apart from that, the large deal win of 33 odd percent has come at 3.2 odd billion versus 4.8 billion in the previous quarter. While large deal wins have come down on the back of that high base in the previous quarter, which is in line with the estimate and there's nothing to worry about it. Apart from that, if you look at the key numbers, the revenues are up 2.2 odd percent, while the EBITDA is up 2.7 odd percent. The margins have expanded 15 basis points and reached that 21% mark in this quarter. Lastly, profit has turned out better than estimates and up 27 odd percent. If we look at the other key guidance details, we look at the attrition has jumped 30 basis points and reached 12.6% versus 12.3 in the previous quarter. And one of the interesting aspects is a headcount reduction. In this quarter, we see a reduction of nearly 8,400 employees in Q4. While the management says this is seasonal hiring and they don't see any much impact on the overall business environment, and they also plan to hire 20,000 more employees in the coming quarter. So all in all, we do see numbers are coming in line, but the management tone remains cautious and even the guidance is lower, which will be something to watch out for.

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Salil Parekh8:14:42

As we look ahead to the financial year 2027, we see large opportunities in AI services. We also see continued competitive intensity and we see an AI productivity impact. A combination of these things with a clear AI strategic roadmap and a real-world toolkit of Topaz fabric, we are well positioned to support a client's transformation, technology and operations objectives. A revenue growth guidance for the financial year 2027 is 1.5% to 3.5% growth year on year in constant currency terms. We expect acceleration of growth in financial services and in energy, utility, resources and services vertical. Our operating margin guidance for financial year 27 is 20% to 22%.

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Speaker 28:15:40

The concerns with regard to the Middle East war have led to the crude oil price actually jumping. It's crossed the $103 per barrel mark again, indicating the nervousness that is there amongst the investors, and that's exactly what was reflected in the equity markets today as well. Around closing bell is when the markets really felt that nervousness and it tanked very significantly. What does this entire market action really mean? Which were the sectors that were worst hit and what really stood out amidst the sea of red? This quick market check has been done by my colleague. Take a look.

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Speaker 78:16:19

So Nifty has ended in red for the second day in a row. The market closed below 24,200, down almost 0.8% today. Trent and Shriram Finance were the top losers in Nifty, both of which were down almost 3.5%. The broader markets have outperformed the benchmark indices today with the Nifty Midcap 150 snapping its 2-day gaining streak and ending almost 0.5% in red. Union Bank of India was the top loser in Nifty Midcap 150, down over 7% after the company posted its Q4 results today. The Nifty Small Cap 250 also has snapped its 2-day gaining streak, ending almost 0.6% in red with IIFL Finance being the top loser, down by over 10% today. Now let's have a look at the sectors. The sectoral indexes ended on a mixed note with Nifty Pharma being the top gainer, up by over 2%. In Nifty Pharma, Dr. Reddy's and Pyramal Pharma were the top gainers, both of which were up by over 6.5%. Nifty Auto was the top losing sector, down by over 2%, led by Ashok Leyland and TVS Motors, both of which were down by almost 4% today. Also, let's have a look at the sectoral trend. Nifty Pharma has ended in green for the second day in a row, while indices like Nifty PSU Bank and Nifty Oil and Gas have snapped their 4-day gaining streak. Also, Nifty Realty, Nifty Media, Nifty Metal and Nifty FMCG have snapped their 2-day gaining streak. While indices like Nifty Auto, Nifty IT, Nifty Bank, and Nifty Financial Services have ended in red for the second day in a row.

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Speaker 88:17:56

A lot of the strength that we're seeing, not just in the US, but globally. Take a look at Korea, SK Hynix numbers coming out this morning, incredibly strong. That is the tale of two cities of the world right now because a lot of this AI buildout and the capex is insulated from the geopolitical conflict that we have going around the world. And if anything, the need for behind the meter power, for additional power supply sources, that's accelerated because of what's happening in the Middle East.

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Speaker 28:18:29

The war, which should have ideally ended by now, viewers, simply because there have been so many efforts that have been made about possible peace talks, but that hasn't happened. It started on the 28th of February, and as we speak, the Iran war continues. There is a ceasefire but that's indefinitely at play, but that is hardly something that is giving any comfort to investors around the world. And the reason for that is the fact that the IRGC is now actually bombing several vessels in that vicinity. Add to it the fact that Donald Trump has now come out and very categorically said that the American Navy is now going to shoot any Iranian vessels that put the mines or the sea mines in that region, essentially adding to the fact that this is a war that is still some time away from seeing any potential peace options right now. What does it add up to? How does it really look is something that we're going to keep focusing on going forward. But let's play out this important ground report that's been filed by my colleagues who are on ground covering this war since the 28th of February. Take a look.

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Reporter8:19:34

I'm trying to get the reaction from the people here in Israel, trying to find out what they have to say because a negotiation between Iran and Washington has failed because Iran has made it clear that they will not be sitting on the talking table. They've almost rejected this negotiation offer from the Pakistan side. Let me speak to the people here. How do you see this thing that Iran has rejected this offer? They're saying that they will not be coming and sitting on the talking table.

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Israeli Citizen8:19:58

We are very disappointed. We know that Iran is against Israel all the time. They are doing things against Israel. We don't understand why they are doing it and we think they will not change their color. We are very, very disappointed.

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Reporter8:20:16

So what you really want the United States of America to do at this stage because they are keeping conditions that you should open a naval blockade?

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Israeli Citizen8:20:25

First of all, they damaged the economic situation. And second, Iran needs to collapse and be destroyed, all the things that can be against Israel, all the atomic and all the things that we don't know. Because right now, the Iranian people are building missiles and everything in order to attack and destroy Israel. Why? Nobody understands. We like and we love the Iranian people. The Iranian people are good people. They want peace. 40 years ago, they were the best of our country. Why not now?

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Reporter8:21:05

So the people here feel that they are here for peace. They want negotiation. They want diplomacy and dialogue to be given a chance. But if Iran is not keen for the dialogue, so they feel that there is another option left for them, and there's kinetic warfare and they should unleash that kind of warfare and teach Iran a lesson. Once again, they should start bombing that country if they don't bend their way.

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Speaker 28:21:28

Important policy updates and news coming in which is regards to the rice exports. Something that has actually taken a significant hit because of the ongoing war in Iran. Remember, the Middle East actually contributes very substantially to India's rice exports, and which is why the numbers essentially tell the story. 7.5% is the kind of hit that India's rice exports have taken. Shipments have been delayed, payments have slowed down, and add to it the fact that costs with regard to both insurance have also risen quite significantly. All of this pulling down India's rice exports. How much it is is something that Mahima in fact explains in greater detail. Take a look.

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Mahima8:22:11

And you know, we've seen a dip of around 7.5% in terms of rice exports in 25-26 so far. And overall exports have seen this dip on account of contraction in shipments to major destinations. This is as per the Ministry of Commerce data that we've gotten. The exports in March itself have seen a decline of around 15.3 odd percent. And shipments to Middle East regions including Iran, UAE, Saudi Arabia and Oman have been impacted. Iran is one of the biggest basmati rice export destinations for India. I think the more concerning part is that overall shipments are witnessing growing stress in terms of order flow. Payment cycles is something that is getting impacted, and ship schedules due to prevailing instability are also getting hampered. Plus on top of that, importers are now saying and have kind of conveyed their inability to honor existing commitments and remit payments to India. So it's not just about your overall exports going down, but payments are also getting stuck to a major extent. Now this as compared to how things fared in 2024 and 2025. Overall, in 2024 and 2025, we exported around 20.1 million tons of rice and produced around 150 million tons of rice, and overall average yields also improved to 2.72 tons per hectare since the cycle began, and this is from 2014-15 to almost 3.2 tons per hectare in 2024-25. So overall, I think yields are also going to get impacted, plus exports being impacted will overall see a dampening and impact a lot of these.

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Narrator8:23:54

That's the overall perspective of what's happening in the rice space. This is one of the most significant sets of policy details coming in right now. The much-in-the-works India-U.S. trade deal talks have concluded, and there is huge expectation that the India-U.S. trade deal could be signed very soon. Important comments are coming in from both sides, and we're going to play that out for you viewers. But remember, the India-U.S. trade deal has been in the works for a very long time. The fact that it comes in right now indicates that it could have a much larger impact on the strategic and geopolitical aspects of the India-U.S. relationship. Add to that the fact that the India-U.S. bilateral trade partnership is also going to get a huge fillip going forward. Listen in to those important sound bites.

A team from India went to Washington, D.C. for negotiations on a bilateral trade agreement. These engagements are ongoing and constructive. Both sides are working towards a balanced, mutually beneficial, and forward-looking trade agreement, taking into account each other's concerns and priorities, and to reach a trade target of $500 billion by 2030. So that is where we are on the bilateral trade agreement.

India is a tough nut to crack. They have protected their agricultural markets for a very long time. As part of this deal, they are going to want to protect a lot of that still. There are things, though, where I think we can find mutual agreement. DDGS is a good example of this.

In top national news, extremely important set of state elections. The first phase for Bengal concluded today; Tamil Nadu also voted today. These are the most important state elections. Both Tamil Nadu and Bengal are where the BJP is taking on well-established state parties. In Tamil Nadu, it is the DMK versus the AIADMK coalition, with the BJP part of the AIADMK block. In Bengal, it is a straight bipolar contest between the BJP and TMC. There has been a record amount of voting. What this all means is something we will know on May 4 when the results come out. As things stand right now, both elections are going to have a huge impact on not just the political landscape of India but also the overall legislative landscape.

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Speaker 18:26:35

There are two things. One is people who are lethargic, who usually would not turn up, have been driven into them that this time you must vote because this is one of those votes or elections after the S exercise. Secondly, there is that thing about a lower baseline, which means when you have a lower base, a higher percentage of voting is expected. But apart from that, this is also an election that has seen huge mobilization by both the BJP and the Trinamool Congress. Both parties have really reached out, made that effort to get voters to canvas and get them to the booth. So you have these three factors combining to give this kind of turnout. West Bengal always had a good voter turnout, but this time, what has really increased the numbers are these three factors: the SIR ensuring people come out to vote, the lower baseline, and the canvassing by both parties, making it almost a do-or-die election.

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Speaker 28:27:58

Definitely two factors are playing a role in the rise in voter percentage: S is playing a role, but the other factor is definitely TVK Vijay, because we saw many youths in Chennai queuing from morning in favor of their respective parties. We'll have to wait and see how much impact it creates. As we speak till 5 p.m., Tamil Nadu has recorded 82.24% turnout, which has already surpassed the previous election record. In 2011 it was 78.29%, in 2016 it was 74.81%, in 2021 it was 73.63%. But as of now, till 5 p.m. itself, more than 80% of Tamil Nadu people have voted. This is going to be a very interesting factor on May 4: whether this rise in poll percentage is due to anti-incumbency to the present government, the Vijay factor, or S. We'll get a clear picture on May 4.

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Narrator8:29:04

Before we wrap things up on this edition of India Business Report, take a look at this exclusive conversation my colleague Nishaar had with Pirosha God, who has taken the helm of Godrej Industries at one of its most important moments. In this exclusive conversation, Mr. Godrej also highlights that caution is starting to creep into residential real estate, with consumers pushing back decisions due to the uncertainty that continues to have a major overhang with regard to the Middle East war. Take a look at that slice of the exclusive conversation.

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Nisha Podar8:29:42

I think we have big expectations from businesses like Godrej Properties, which has now been for 3 years the largest residential real estate developer. There is a lot of opportunity for value creation there. We believe sales... Godrej Properties has an accounting standard where you only recognize projects in the P&L once they are fully completed. So sales go first, then cash flows, then P&L earnings. The market is waiting to see those earnings. We are quite hopeful and confident of delivering those in FY28, a big spike up in earnings. We do think that will result in value creation as well.

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Tamana Anand8:30:33

Hi, I'm Tamana Anand. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories: what happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

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Ned Sha8:30:46

Hi, I'm Ned Sha. Watch me on NDTV Profit for the most incisive market intelligence and meaningful corporate conversations.

A

Alex Matthew8:30:57

And I'm Alex Matthew. Markets, mutual funds, insurance, personal finance. I help you cut through the noise and make smarter financial choices. And here's where you can watch us.

N

Narrator8:31:18

He has been tracking markets for over a decade, spots the trends before they hit the screen. And he is now bringing his analysis to the show that the market watches. Watch Shah Dubet on Know Your Company, a show that puts the most traded stocks under the scanner. We dissect the company so that you, the investor, don't have to. Get the management to answer questions relevant to you. Watch Know Your Company weekdays at 11:30 a.m. to understand your next big bet. New year, new power panel. India Market Open, now in its boldest lineup. This is where the trends get tested and stocks get conviction.

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Speaker 18:32:19

I'll recommend a buy call on a stock only when I'm fully convinced on the stock with a tickle buy.

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Speaker 28:32:26

And when the street wants the levels, he brings the chart. Charts speak the truth and I deliver the levels with no frills.

N

Narrator8:32:35

Parag Thakkar and Kush Bohra are now part of the morning crew with Tamana, Niraj, and Alex. Same show, Sharper Voices, every morning on India Market Open. Your favorite market show just got better on NDTV Profit for your profit.

When the headlines move fast, perspective matters. On Editors' Cut, our editors come together with experts to distill the week's information into clear perspective. Down to the stories shaping the world, from markets and economy to global conflicts and what lies ahead. This is where experience meets insight. No noise, no hype, just sharp tips on what to watch next. Editors' Cut, every Friday at 3:30 p.m., only on NDTV Profit.

Presenting the all-knowing, all-marvel tech guru.

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Speaker 18:35:07

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Guru? I'm no guru.

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Speaker 28:35:10

Okay, I'm just a guy who loves his tech.

N

Narrator8:35:14

A show where the mysteries of megabytes and motherboards shall be unraveled.

S

Speaker 18:35:20

Nobody talks like that anymore. This is all about connected ecosystems, EVs, and AI that you can use in your daily life. That's what we do.

A

Alex Matthew8:35:37

Hi, we're talking about your money matters on NDTV Profit, and my name is Alex Matthew. Buy when everyone else is fearful and sell when everyone else is greedy. This is something I'm paraphrasing, of course, but it's a famous quote and it has to do with sentiment in the equity markets. It has proven to be useful and successful more often than not over the past many years. But how do you do this? Is there an opportunity to look at a mutual fund strategy that does this for you without you having to do it? That's exactly what we're talking about today. It's called the value strategy or the contrarian strategy, used interchangeably. That may not necessarily be the most accurate way to describe it though. We've got Rushabh Desai, founder of Rupee with Rushabh Investment, joining in to talk about this. Rushabh, thanks so much for taking the time. Let me first ask you about this value contrarian strategy available in mutual funds. How does it work? What is the thesis?

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Rushabh Desai8:36:44

Hi Alex, thanks so much for having me on the show. There is a very thin line difference between value and contrarian strategies. A contrarian strategy basically invests in underperforming sectors, stocks, and segments in the capital markets. If a particular segment is not doing well and has corrected by say 10, 15, 20%, then a contrarian investor or fund manager would be more brave and take aggressive calls in that corrective pocket. On the other side, what does a value strategy do? It basically invests in undervalued sectors or stocks or segments. Not necessarily that particular pocket would have corrected sharply, but either the stocks or sectors would have been undervalued and not yet reached their true value or potential. So a contrarian strategy invests in underperforming sectors and stocks, and a value strategy invests in undervalued sectors and stocks.

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Alex Matthew8:38:01

Understood. If you look back over the last decade and judge how the performance of these strategies have functioned and what the outcome has been, the fact is, Rushabh, that more often than not, in more years, you've had a value strategy that has emerged on top. Is that not the case?

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Rushabh Desai8:38:24

Typically, growth as a strategy has been comparatively more consistent than value because in a value strategy, it takes time for its true price to unlock and shine out in the markets. So value may be cyclical from time to time, but growth would be a little more consistent. This is what we tell our investors: investing in different strategies is very important because every strategy has its time of outperformance and underperformance. Historically, growth has done comparatively much better than value, but when value has played out well, it has given some extraordinary returns compared to growth. If you are investing in a growth-oriented strategy, then probably 4-5 years is a good time horizon, but if you're investing in a value-oriented strategy, then 6-7 years is the time horizon I would keep because it can get more cyclical than growth.

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Alex Matthew8:39:35

Understood. The point is well noted because you try to buy stocks and companies that are underperforming, usually at the bottom of the cycle, and then you have to wait for the rebound. This requires more patience. But what has been the experience for a contrarian option? Because if you look at the options available, there are not too many schemes available. A fund house has to choose between a contrarian strategy and a value strategy, doesn't it?

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Rushabh Desai8:40:16

Absolutely. The reason I like contrarian strategy is that you can play it by investing in a contrarian fund, and you can also be a contrarian by investing in different funds, categories, market capitalizations, and sectors when they are underperforming and have corrected by say 10, 15, 20%, and then take a selling call when they have given good returns. So you can be a contrarian investor by investing in a contrarian fund, or without one, by playing out different market caps and strategies. Let me give you some interesting data. As per historical data, I pulled out returns of Sensex from 1980 to 2025, about 45-46 years. Every year, equity markets have fallen on a full-year basis anywhere between -10% to -20%. At the same time, 80% of these periods ended on a positive note at year-end. When the recovery phase enters a bull run, markets have not only recovered well but have given superior double-digit risk-adjusted returns. So you can actually be a contrarian investor every year. No one has made money by investing in a bull market; if you invest in a bull cycle, you should expect probably single-digit returns.

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Alex Matthew8:42:14

Is that true though? If you think about it, if you invested in 2020 at the start of the bull run after the crash, some argue we're still in a bull run with an interruption. People have made between 12 and 18%.

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Rushabh Desai8:42:41

I'll give a very interesting data point. What you are saying is right; I don't disagree. There will be funds that have done well. But if someone had invested in 2007 during euphoria and you take data from 2007 to 2025, many indexes generated single-digit CAGR returns. However, if someone had invested during the global financial crisis in end-2008, they would have made some 18-19% CAGR returns. So yes, some funds managed well have done well, but it's always better to invest during correction pockets because it gives margin of safety and ample upside opportunity.

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Alex Matthew8:43:43

Good point. But if you're investing consistently through a SIP, you don't have to worry about timing. You'll get close to average returns, and that itself is something most people don't manage to do. So you might be in a small cohort of successful people. Let's talk about some of these strategies focusing on contrarian. Rushabh, what are the schemes in the category? What have they achieved over the last 5 years, and what stands out about how they're doing this?

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Rushabh Desai8:44:22

There are not many schemes in the contrarian strategy space; probably three or four. One is Kotak Contra Fund, second is Invesco India Contra Fund, and third is SBI Contra Fund. I pulled out very interesting data on a 5-year daily rolling CAGR basis from January 1, 2020, to April 21, 2026. All three contra funds have managed to generate higher alpha, outperformed the Nifty 500 TRI index much higher number of times, and delivered consistent returns. They have also outperformed many value funds. The top two performing contra funds are Kotak Contra and Invesco India Contra. For Kotak Contra, the average 5-year daily rolling CAGR from Jan 1, 2020, to April 21, 2026, has been 16.3%. It has generated greater than 12% CAGR returns 84% of the time, and the outperformance strike rate compared to Nifty 500 TRI has been 100%. For Invesco India Contra, average returns have been 16.1% CAGR. It generated greater than 12% compounding returns 77% of the time, and the outperformance strike rate has been 83% versus Nifty 500 TRI. So over the past 6 years, contrarian strategy has done really well even compared to many value funds.

A

Alex Matthew8:46:29

That's very interesting. So if you were to discuss the positioning of a contra fund in a portfolio, how would you go about it? Ultimately, this is not something that forms the backbone of your portfolio, or is it?

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Rushabh Desai8:46:45

It can form a backbone. When we look at portfolio creation, we always recommend asset allocation as the standard way. But it's also very important to invest across different styles: growth-oriented, momentum-oriented, value-oriented, and contrarian-oriented strategies. If you're creating a portfolio, probably 20-25% of the allocation can be given to contra funds because they have managed not only to deliver outperformance but also to be more consistent over time. So a good portion of 20-25% can be given to contra funds in one's portfolio.

A

Alex Matthew8:47:37

That's certainly something. But if you've chosen to add contra, should you also add value? You've described the difference between the two but also pointed out that contra has tended to outperform even value. How do you choose between the two? Would you choose one over the other?

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Rushabh Desai8:48:02

No, you can keep both funds in one's portfolio. Around 20-25% can be given to growth, 20-25% to momentum, 20-25% to value, and 20-25% to contra. Allocating equally across four strategies should do the job because every strategy and fund will outperform and underperform from time to time.

A

Alex Matthew8:48:29

Got it. I think that pretty much covers this topic. Thanks, Rushabh, for taking the time. Insightful conversation.

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Rushabh Desai8:48:40

Thank you so much, Alex.

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Alex Matthew8:48:44

It's been a turbulent period for markets as a whole. Just look at two months to see what I'm talking about. In March, equity portfolios fell through the floor; in April, you saw quite a meteoric rise. Earlier today, I spoke with someone who tracks equity markets closely about the Nifty 500 index, asking how many constituents have risen sharply. He pointed out that well over 300 stocks in that 500-stock index have seen an uptick of more than 30% — practically two-thirds of the index. Does that mean the worst is over? Does it mean India's footing is stronger than thought in March? How are fund managers looking at this? The best way to understand is to look at the positioning of multi-asset strategies, used by fund managers to shift between asset classes depending on opportunities. Joining me is Ashish Naik, equity fund manager at Axis Mutual Fund. Ashish, thanks for taking the time. Let me start by asking how your multi-asset fund is managed. There is a broad definition, and interpretations vary, so how do you manage it?

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Ashish Naik8:50:45

Sure. Multi-asset funds need to be in at least three asset classes: typically equity, debt, and commodities (usually gold or silver). In terms of how various fund managers manage, there is a difference in how much each asset class is required to hold, determined primarily by the equity level. If the fund has a gross equity level of 65% or more, it is classified as tax-efficient equity taxation for mutual funds, which is where Axis Multi-Asset Fund belongs. Other funds can have less equity, between 35-65% gross equity, allowing more room for debt and commodities. The idea is that these asset classes have low correlation, and diversification gives better risk-adjusted returns. At Axis, we manage it with gross equity between 65-80%, but with arbitrage we can go as low as 30% net equity. The remaining portion is debt and arbitrage, with 10-25% in commodities like gold and silver.

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Alex Matthew8:52:21

Well described. I want to ask: in what situations would this change? You said even if equity allocation is at a minimum 65%, you can go lower by adding arbitrage. What situations would cause you to go lower or overweight in equity?

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Ashish Naik8:52:53

This is the next part. We have an internal model with a framework for asset allocation, including valuations, earnings momentum, macro indicators, and trends. This model has evolved and guides fund managers across our hybrid funds when managing equity dynamically. We also have an asset allocation committee. When would we be very low or very high on equity? Obviously, if valuations are very high or there are impending risks to domestic growth, we would go lower. For example, in the last two months, we cut equity exposures from over 60% to below 53-54%. Conversely, when fundamentals improve, valuations become favorable, and earnings momentum is with us, we go higher. Currently, in many cases across sectors, valuations are favorable, and we have increased equity allocation. Taking a step back, the start of this year was better for India as a domestic equity market, with economic growth picking up due to consumption-led momentum, government policy push, benign inflation, and good liquidity.

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Alex Matthew8:55:18

What really went against the markets? Valuations had come down compared to other markets in the last 12 months. What really went against us was geopolitics, the biggest stress. That's why we had to change fund allocations.

Yeah. What is the latest reading on where equity allocation stands in the multi-asset fund?

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Ashish Naik8:55:50

At end of March, we are near 65%.

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Alex Matthew8:55:58

And a large part is pure equity, not arbitrage?

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Ashish Naik8:56:03

A large part is pure equity. There could be some derivative positions, but yes.

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Alex Matthew8:56:09

And gold or commodities in that basket, where does it stand?

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Ashish Naik8:56:20

Both gold and silver as a basket, especially silver, have been extremely volatile. There has been a great up move in these two assets. During a period of geopolitical uncertainty, there was an anti-dollar trade where people invested in gold and silver. Gold, being more stable, showed a relatively lower up move. In the last two months when things reversed and the dollar moved higher, gold's reversal was lower, while silver was more volatile. Our asset allocation was higher in commodities till the end of last year; we reduced exposure when euphoria reached. From peaks of 23-24%, we went as low as 11-12%. Currently, we are about equal weight to our benchmark of 15%, tilted more towards gold as it is more stable and current conditions are more conducive for gold.

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Alex Matthew8:57:57

Interesting. Many people have flocked to this category because of outperformance, but that tendency is changing slowly. Multi-asset funds have outperformed pure equity funds over the last year and a half largely due to gold and commodities, despite the drop earlier this year. But has this created a wrong expectation for returns in this category? Multi-asset is primarily equity but not meant to give pure equity returns.

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Ashish Naik8:58:54

Great question. The objective of a multi-asset fund is to invest across three broad asset classes with low correlation; gold has a negative correlation to equity and debt. Gold had a big lull in returns for most of the last decade, but post-COVID and especially since 2022-2023, there was a huge up move due to uncertainty. Silver has a lower investor base and is more volatile. The way to look at them is as part of an investment basket in an asset allocation strategy. We try to invest between asset classes based on relative attractiveness and macro situation. When commodities were more conducive, we were overweight; we cut down when needed. Being in only one asset class won't help. Multi-asset funds bring down volatility, and over 2-3 years, risk-adjusted returns are much better. They are for the long term, not short-term return expectations.

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Alex Matthew9:01:28

That's an interesting way of putting it. If I may, it's the difference between driving quickly in short bursts versus a steady pace. The steady pace might be a few minutes slower but with a different experience. One has higher risk and possibly higher reward; the other is more steady. That's what a multi-asset strategy achieves.

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Ashish Naik9:02:02

Absolutely. The classic tortoise and hare story. I completely agree.

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Alex Matthew9:02:12

Ashish, thanks so much for taking the time. Pleasure speaking with you.

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Ashish Naik9:02:15

Pleasure. Absolute pleasure. Thank you.

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Alex Matthew9:02:18

Well, that brings us to the end of this edition of Your Money Matters. It shows you shouldn't have the wrong expectation when investing in something that has outperformed in a short period because multiple factors might have led to that. Thanks for watching. Stay tuned. This is NDTV Profit.

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Tamana Anand9:02:47

Hi, I'm Tamana Anand. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories: what happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

N

Ned Sha9:03:00

Hi, I'm Ned Sha. Watch me on NDTV Profit for the most incisive market intelligence and meaningful corporate conversation.

A

Alex Matthew9:03:11

And I'm Alex Matthew. Markets, mutual funds, insurance, personal finance. I help you cut through the noise and make smarter financial choices. And here's where you can watch us.

N

Narrator9:03:24

He has been tracking markets for over a decade, spots the trends before they hit the screen. And he is now bringing his analysis to the show that the market watches. Watch Shah Dubet on Know Your Company, a show that puts the most traded stocks under the scanner. We dissect the company so that you, the investor, don't have to. Get the management to answer questions relevant to you. Watch Know Your Company weekdays at 11:30 a.m. to understand your next big bet. New year, new power panel. India Market Open, now in its boldest lineup. This is where the trends get tested and stocks get conviction.

S

Speaker 19:04:33

I'll recommend a buy call on a stock only when I'm fully convinced on the stock with a tickle buy.

S

Speaker 29:04:40

And when the street wants the levels, he brings the chart. Charts speak the truth and I deliver the levels with no frills.

N

Narrator9:04:49

Parag Thakkar and Kush Bohra are now part of the morning crew with Tamana, Niraj, and Alex. Same show, Sharper Voices, every morning on India Market Open. Your favorite market show just got better on NDTV Profit for your profit.

When the headlines move fast, perspective matters. On Editors' Cut, our editors come together with experts to distill the week's information into clear perspective.

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Vikram Chandra9:05:47

Good evening. I'm Vikram Chandra on The Big Question here on NDTV Profit. Tonight, we're taking on two debates shaping everyday India. The first: as India tightens the screws on online gambling but loosens rules for gaming startups, consumers are being left exposed even as startups get a boost. The other big question: everyone is talking about the viral video of a lady unleashing her wrath at a protest rally in Mumbai for holding up traffic during that march. When political rallies bring cities to a standstill, should citizens be forced to pay the price? Up front, let's bring up the first debate. From May 1, India's online gaming rules 2026 will officially kick in, drawing a sharp line. Online real money games are now explicitly banned; banks and payment gateways can be directed to block transactions. A new Online Gaming Authority of India (OGAI) becomes the nodal regulator. But the government is calling this regulation light. Most non-money games, whether casual or social, will not require mandatory registration or prior determination. Esports gets a formal statutory regime with certifications valid for 10 years, up from 5. The rules mandate user safety features: age verification, parental controls, time limits, grievance redress, addiction support. Yet critics ask: with minimal oversight and deemed approvals, is self-regulation enough, especially when free-to-play games can still influence behavior? So tonight, we ask: with this boost for startups, is it increasing risk for consumers? Let me introduce the panel: Akshhat Rathee, co-founder and managing director of Nodwin Gaming, joins us. On the other side, Nachiket Yagnik, managing associate at Freda Legal, head of the gaming team, joins us as well. Akshhat, with most non-money games now operating under deemed approval with little upfront vetting, do you think we are effectively asking users to discover harm first and then complain, instead of preventing it at the design stage?

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Akshhat Rathee9:08:46

I think the best way to answer this is that the government has said this is a piece of software. Whether you have ChatGPT, OpenAI, Anthropic, Microsoft Excel, or any other software, if a game is not esports and not real money gaming—the two outlier conditions—it is a piece of software and you should be able to go ahead and try it. They have also said if it becomes big and causes harm, which they have kept as discretionary, they can tell you to stop. But what they've done is remove the two big things—esports and real money gaming—from the equation.

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Vikram Chandra9:09:31

What do you say, Nachiket? Blanket bans on real money gaming have historically pushed users towards unsafe offshore platforms. So isn't a regulation-light regime like this for domestic startups actually the lesser of the two consumer risks?

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Nachiket Yagnik9:09:46

No. Essentially, the rules mandate that all non-money games are allowed to operate without registration unless there are factors such as harm. But the banning of online money games has led users to explore other avenues like VPNs and unregulated platforms, which often lack KYC or data protection protocols. That's a key issue that will need to be looked at in how these rules are practically enforced.

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Vikram Chandra9:11:00

Right. Akshhat, for startups, these rules clearly improve ease of doing business. But with a fast-scaling industry, do you think self-regulation will realistically keep pace with addictive design, monetization tweaks, and algorithmic nudges?

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Akshhat Rathee9:11:22

Look, this is a profit channel, so let me say this: the way this will open up is this one last frontier—the Indian youth consumer—is available for the world to fight upon. China has gone and grown its market, and by the way, China went through the same process—they banned edtech after a certain time, they banned real money gaming and gambling systems. Other countries have taken the same view. I think what we will do is give 90% clarity on what works and what doesn't. They are clear that gambling is not kosher; money in and money out is not kosher. Loot boxes, for example, are regulated in different ways globally. Is it a percentage chance you have to declare? Is gacha mechanic good or not? That's where the market will evolve. Big value is always created on a bit of ambiguity. I think those will be the causal outcomes as long as the youth is not harmed. We are one of the biggest youngest nations; responsibility is to have responsible behavior, and self-regulation should come in. People will mark it up once in a while and should be punished for it.

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Vikram Chandra9:12:49

I like how you said we're in it for profit, as the channel stands for. But regarding our youth, we want to safeguard their interest. With registrations now valid for 10 years and the Online Gaming Authority, Nachiket, will it truly have the agility to step in quickly if a clean social game later pivots to predatory monetization? Does it have the teeth?

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Nachiket Yagnik9:13:21

The rules provide for the OGA to step in suo moto, monitor on its own, and ensure that if a game's certificate of registration was given but then the algorithm changes leading to user harm, the OGA has authority to not only cancel registration but also prohibit or ban it if necessary. I think the rules in theory give the OGA enough ammo to ensure that the certificate of registration is not misused. But we'll see the proof of the pudding when it's actually put in place and followed in letter and spirit.

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Vikram Chandra9:14:26

Akshhat, free-to-play doesn't mean risk-free. Should addictive mechanics and in-app purchase pressure be treated as the next major consumer protection challenge even when no real money is wagered?

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Akshhat Rathee9:14:43

Most entertainment items—Netflix, in-app purchases for cosmetics or vanity—will be vanity metrics for many. The difference between that and addiction will evolve as the market goes along. Responsible behavior should look at precedence elsewhere. The wording of this is phenomenal: the Ministry of Electronics and IT is the nodal one, with an additional secretary leading. They included the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting to regulate advertising on OTT and linear TV, the Ministry of Sports for sports, and the Ministry of Finance so banks can ban any other items. The ability to create a multimodal framework is one of the most phenomenal you've seen in the world. I've worked in 22 countries; I've never seen such multiple departments come together. Will it work? I hope so. But as a construct, it's phenomenal. People around the world are saying this is really good.

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Vikram Chandra9:16:03

We will meander a bit as we always do to get to the final destination. Absolutely, that's the fun part of the game—to see it in practice. The guardrails are there, but when I look at the rules, they rely heavily on grievance redressal. One wonders if you are shifting the burden of policing harm onto users rather than platforms or the regulator.

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Nachiket Yagnik9:16:28

Grievance redressal is paramount to ensure users can point out what's wrong, but that doesn't mean the OGA will not monitor games on its own independent footing. The OGA has the power to pull up any game developer regardless of the grievance redress mechanism. Also, users can appeal to the OGA within 30 days if not satisfied with a gaming provider's grievance mechanism.

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Vikram Chandra9:17:19

Fair enough.

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Speaker 29:17:21

From an industry lens, you see this regulation-light framework they're calling it. Do you think that is genuinely going to unlock innovation, because that's the game of the industry? Or do you think it risks future backlash in case public trust is eroded by a few bad actors? If that happens, what do you see?

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Akshhat9:17:45

Look, I think the final answer is where is big value being created. Value will be made by developers who will now go and develop with a very clear framework. They'll be able to raise capital from external companies who would know that an Indian developer knows this framework. There'll be publishing outcomes on PC, console, and mobile that will come out. There'll also be bigger esports events and investments that would go into infrastructure and deployments. What would happen is someone will make a bad game, something that is racist, something against the censor board. And that's the power of a multimodal industry. We already have frameworks of content with the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting under the censor board. They already have a framework. You have SEBI, the RBI, MHA, Ministry of Sports, they all have frameworks to look at outliers. Rather than create a whole new statute of laws under this ministry, they'll use the powers of existing ministries and frameworks to make sure the definition is extremely clear for people to create value. So if you make mistakes...

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Speaker 29:19:06

So if you consider all the points you're making right now, do you think India is likely to build a globally competitive gaming and esports market without compromising on consumer safety? Or is there some level of risk that is inevitable in innovation-driven sectors like gaming?

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Akshhat9:19:22

I think AI is the flavor of the year, so I'll take an example. AI can be used for great harm and great good. We should be building for India, and the Prime Minister said it clearly at WEF: we should build the cultural soft power that Bollywood had. We can do it with gaming, not only for the captive market of 500-600 million gamers in India but also for the world, telling other emerging markets in the Global South that this is how to build gaming sustainability and responsibility. I think this is a great idea. I keep saying it's like the 1990s. It's great for 90% of people, okay for 9%, and 1% will muck it up, and then we have to watch out for them.

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Speaker 29:20:12

Right. So the system has what it takes to have those checks and balances, at least that's the larger takeaway. Innovation has to be balanced against user safety, and that's a work in progress, but a crucial debate on innovation versus oversight. My thanks to Akshhat of Nwin Gaming and Nachiket Yagnik from Kreda Legal. As far as viewers are concerned, India's gaming rules may boost these startups, but their real test is whether consumer safety evolves as fast as the industry does. Now to the second big question we are posing this evening. Things are changing rapidly. What is happening right now is this lady who has spoken her mind. Our second big question tonight stems from a moment that went viral, striking a chord with millions of urban Indians. A political rally in Mumbai, choked roads, complete traffic disruption, ultimate chaos. One angry citizen. You're seeing her on your screens.

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Narrator9:21:21

She had had enough. Listen in.

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Woman9:21:26

Get out of here. Before you allow the damn traffic. Okay, get out of here. What is wrong with you?

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Man9:22:08

No, no. What is wrong with you? They're all hundreds of people waiting. There is nothing wrong.

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Speaker 29:22:15

So there you see it in that video. A lady in Mumbai confronting a state minister, demanding to know why a political rally was allowed to block public roads and derail daily life. This isn't isolated. You've seen Maratha reservation protests, the protests in Kolkata, the Cauvery disputes in Karnataka, the Jallikattu protests in Chennai, and agitations in Hyderabad. Even the high-security lockdowns during the G20, public life in Indian cities repeatedly disrupted in the name of politics. But this time the public response was loud and clear. Our social media poll shows that political rallies should not be allowed on busy city roads: 100% of votes are against. And we asked if the woman was justified in confronting the minister: 60% of people say yes. The remaining 40% say both sides are to blame. But it brings us to the big question tonight: when it comes to political rallies and public life, should citizens be the ones paying the price? We have urban planner and public policy expert Rishi Agarwal joining us, and Kushbu Jen is an advocate at the Supreme Court of India. Let's get into this debate. Rishi, when a city like Mumbai is brought to a halt even for a few hours, there is an economic cost in lost productivity, fuel wastage, business disruption. How do you see it?

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Rishi Agarwal9:23:37

Absolutely. Mumbai being a business city, it's always the economic aspect that comes to mind. I don't think we really appreciate or sympathize with the amount of stress under which Mumbaikars live daily. The health impact, the stress impact is huge, and all of that can be quantified as economic impact. But just the pure financial numbers, it's terrible. The amount of time wasted in traffic jams, meetings disrupted, people cannot schedule. Mumbai, as we all know, is a stickler for time, and time is money. If you waste time like this for some reason, and political rallies are just one reason—traffic management is terrible anyway—all these things add up. If we want to be a $5 trillion economy, we need to value people's time and not treat these matters in such a shabby, irresponsible manner.

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Speaker 29:24:40

But I would imagine Kushbu Jen saying that the right to protest is a constitutional right. Kushbu, where does it end when it directly interferes with the right to work and the free movement of other citizens?

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Kushbu Jen9:24:52

I think both are right when it comes to the right to protest in a democracy. As a citizen, you have the right to protest, but you also enjoy other constitutional rights: the right to freely move around, the right to work, the right to reside and move freely. If these rights have been disrupted for long, there have been many judgments from the high courts and Supreme Court stating that if the disruption has cost life or disrupted people's lives or caused financial or livelihood difficulty, the state should bear the cost. The Chambara soy judgment clearly put across that a man couldn't take his son to the hospital because of a road blockade, and he lost his son's life. The court said the state must compensate the father and that a mechanism is needed. Also, we have laws saying if you want to protest, there can be designated places, but you need police permission. If permission isn't given, the police are duty-bound to remove the blockade. The question should be whether permission was given or sought.

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Speaker 29:26:56

Let me take that to Rishi. Rishi, designated protest spaces—are they poorly utilized? Should policy mandate that large political gatherings be restricted to those zones? Is that not happening?

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Rishi Agarwal9:27:12

I've seen enough political or public protest at Azad Maidan over 25 years, and it's a very poor cousin to the protest you see on streets. Everybody wants to be on the streets because the street is a political space. At Azad Maidan, nobody's watching you. You could be partying or protesting—nobody cares. So the street is a place that disrupts activity and is visible. Having said that, I'll add to what Kushbu said. Generally, there are very few genuine public protests in India. These are cynical, politically organized protests. We all know how protesters are gathered, with transport and incentives provided. There is very little genuine public protest in India, unlike what happens in Ireland, France, or Korea. Unions come in big force there. These protests honestly don't carry much importance; they are very cynical.

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Speaker 29:28:23

And the economic fallout you mentioned—do these disruptions disproportionately hurt gig workers, small businesses, and logistics, while political power centers remain insulated? That's the grievance of citizens.

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Rishi Agarwal9:28:38

Absolutely. Imagine a city like Mumbai, where deliveries are happening every minute by gig workers—home essentials, food, whatever. With this kind of disruption, thousands of gig workers' orders would have been immediately disrupted. Absolute chaos: they would receive calls, orders cancelled, money refunded. So many things.

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Speaker 29:29:05

What should one do? Kushbu Jen, should city administrations be held legally liable when crowd control and traffic management failures happen and impact public life at the scale we're looking at? Should they be legally liable? What does the law provide? You mentioned one case, but we're not looking at extremities. We're talking about disruptions that clearly damage daily life, which the city's economic wheels cannot afford.

K

Kushbu Jen9:29:36

Absolutely. If I have to give an answer, yes, there should be a compensation jurisprudence in public law that already supports liability for failure to discharge positive duties on the state. But if you look, it is not there; it is case-to-case basis where severe harm is caused and you can prove the harm. But we should not wait for a judgment to seek something already provided in the constitution, which is the duty of law enforcement or the state regarding public order and free movement. We need to build broader compensatory jurisprudence around roadblocks. The earlier panelist was superb on the point that this is no longer a democratic right to protest; it has been invested by parties with their own agendas. We need to move to a mandatory compensatory aspect, making it compulsory that protests happen in designated spaces, not on roads. For example, if I work in an organization, there is always a punch-in and punch-out. If I'm late, I'm not given my pay. If I have a flight to catch, will they compensate me for that? Will I go to court?

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Speaker 29:31:17

So at the end of the day, Kushbu, who owns the city during working hours? Is it the citizen, the economy, the political class? This is becoming a very mood question.

K

Kushbu Jen9:31:34

If I have to answer, the citizen should enjoy the growth of the city, which depends on the economy. But the duty comes on the state and law enforcement agencies to ensure non-obstructive peacefulness in the city without disruption. One more example: when a minister has to go somewhere, they practically have 10 cars ahead and 10 behind, blocking everything. If their work is important, this obstruction can create a problem. If an ambulance needs to reach a place, there will be an issue.

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Speaker 29:32:17

So in a democracy, everyone is supposed to be equal, and that's getting challenged. This debate cuts to the heart of urban public life and democratic responsibility. There will be much more of this in the future. My thanks to Rishi Agarwal and Kushbu Jen for joining us tonight. The takeaway is that democracy in India has checks and balances, and it needs space for protest. But when it affects our daily public life and hits the economy, that's when things get difficult, and we have to find real solutions. That's what this show is here for: The Big Question on NDTV Profit. I'm thanks for joining us.

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Tamana9:33:18

Hi, I'm Tamana. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories. What happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

N

Nidat Sha9:33:31

Hi, I'm Nidat Sha. Watch me on NDTV Profit for the most incisive market intelligence and meaningful corporate conversations.

A

Alex Matthew9:33:42

And I'm Alex Matthew. Markets, mutual funds, insurance, personal finance. I help you cut through the noise and make smarter financial choices. And here's where you can watch us.

N

Narrator9:34:03

He has been tracking markets for over a decade, spots the trends before they hit the screen. And he is now bringing his analysis to the show that the market watches. Watch Shahed Dubet on Know Your Company. A show that puts the most traded stocks under the scanner. We dissect the company so that you, the investor, don't have to. Get the management to answer questions relevant to you. Watch Know Your Company weekdays at 11:30 a.m. to understand your next big bet.

New York, new power panel, India Market Open now in its boldest lineup. This is where the trends get tested and stocks get conviction. I'll recommend a buy call on a stock only when I'm fully convinced on the stock with a table by.

S

Speaker9:35:11

And when the street wants the levels, he brings the chart.

Charts speak the truth and I deliver the levels with no frills.

N

Narrator9:35:19

Parag Takar and Kosh Bhora are now part of the morning crew with Tamana, Niraj, and Alex. Same show, sharper voices. Every morning on India Market Open, your favorite market show just got better.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:35:40

Even as the mood on IT overall is a bit negative, all the companies are coming out with their numbers, and Tech Mahindra in terms of commentary is perhaps showing a more optimistic outlook than others. What's leading to that optimism? I'm speaking now with Mohit Joshi, CEO and MD of Tech Mahindra. Mohit, great to catch up with you after the numbers that have come in, in line with most expectations, and some analyst commentary today is talking about great maneuvering in a tough quarter. But let's come to the outlook. You're sounding more optimistic than other IT companies. What's leading to that?

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Mohit Joshi9:36:22

Thank you. We were delighted by the numbers we were able to report yesterday for the quarter and for the full year. The trajectory of growth we've shown over the past couple of years since we announced the transformation plan has been very satisfying: an upward trajectory in revenues and a 10-quarter expansion in margin. While we've demonstrated this upward trend in margins and profits, we've also been building the institutional capabilities of the company. We've been winning a lot more large deals. As we get into FY27, that is what gives us confidence. The solid foundation we've built and the backlog of large deals gives us more revenue visibility into the current financial year and leads to our confidence that we'll meet the commitments we made to the market of a 15% margin and growth ahead of our peers.

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Mahima Vasarani9:37:19

The big talking point for your space is the impact of AI. Some other companies have talked about a deflationary impact of AI on revenues. You don't talk about AI revenues as a separate reporting like some companies do. Can you give us some visibility on AI revenues and do you see any deflationary impact?

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Mohit Joshi9:37:44

AI is clearly a very big theme not just for our industry but for the entire world. It is driving huge productivity and hopefully in the future will lead to revenue expansion for our clients and ourselves. The way we see it, there is a very significant modernization opportunity, an opportunity to deploy agentic AI to our clients, and a lot of R&D work we've been doing—building sovereign large language models, building a telco reasoning model—all of these will result in significant revenue opportunities down the line. In the short term, there is a concern that some productivity asks from clients will result in revenue compression for the industry as a whole. But the overall size of the opportunity is very significant. Every single technology transformation wave for our industry, whether it was Y2K or the enterprise apps move, was positive. There's no reason why this should be different.

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Mahima Vasarani9:38:48

So what kind of deflationary impact would you see? Some are saying 2 to 3% for their businesses or for the industry. Are you seeing any deflationary impact or hit on revenues in that range?

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Mohit Joshi9:39:00

The 2 to 3% number came only yesterday from one of our peers; it's not something I've seen previously. For any portfolio, you have a large portfolio of application management, application maintenance, or infrastructure. When these deals are rebid or repriced, there's a certain expectation of productivity from clients. That productivity expectation has always been there. Maybe now there is an AI flavor to it. But I would not say there is a specific set number deflating revenues because of AI that is hugely different from what we've seen in the past.

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Mahima Vasarani9:39:41

Okay. So at the cost of repetition, because this is important, I'm going to double-click on it again. Are you saying you're not seeing any deflationary impact of AI on revenues going forward?

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Mohit Joshi9:39:54

What I'm saying is there is clearly a productivity expectation from clients. Some of that productivity expectation is driven by adoption of new technologies, but it's very hard to strip apart the two—saying what is the number from productivity expectation and repeat versus what is from AI. Also, you really can't separate just the deflation; you also have to look at the opportunities for expanding your portfolio of offerings. It's not just one thing; it's multiple things altogether.

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Mahima Vasarani9:40:24

Okay, so you're not looking at it that way. Fair enough. Talk to me about BFSI. That's where you've seen sharp recovery. What has led to that and what has worked in this vertical?

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Mohit Joshi9:40:35

If you look at our recovery—not even recovery, our performance in Q4 was quite broad-based. Manufacturing actually was the fastest growing vertical for us. We also did extremely well in telco, which has been a home market for us. BFSI candidly is our third largest portfolio, but clearly it's the largest spender on technology. The way we've gone about it is we've looked at our existing set of accounts and the headroom for growth there. We've opened a number of very promising accounts, Fortune 500 companies which we feel we have the opportunity to scale, and we've brought in world-class talent from the industry. A combination of these three factors—headroom in existing clients, new client acquisition, and new talent acquisition—is helping us. I'm quite confident that as we move into the current financial year, this tailwind should continue.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:41:30

Maybe it's a matter of timing, but I'm asking you another question stemming from commentary from one of your peers. Communications is your largest portfolio, and commentary says discretionary spending is lowering in communications or telecommunications. Are you seeing this?

M

Mohit Joshi9:41:49

That commentary was very specific to a client or a set of clients. As I look at our telecom portfolio, we do see opportunities for expansion and growth in the current year. That's also because our telecom portfolio is structurally different. For a lot of our peers, their telecom portfolio is only in the IT space. We have a significant IT component, but also a large BPS business and a very large business in network services. Networks are core to telecoms. We also have a very successful product business in Comviva that has grown at double digits for the past two years. I feel optimistic about the opportunities in telecom. There will be client fluctuations and client-specific discretionary spends, but our broader portfolio and not being dependent on a handful of clients, with broader global coverage, should insulate us to a degree.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:42:43

In terms of your deal pipeline looking strong, you've spoken in some detail about new deals like Orange and Fico. What is the translation to revenues looking like?

M

Mohit Joshi9:42:58

These deals usually take a couple of quarters to ramp up and then ramp up fully. We expect them to follow the same trajectory. It usually takes 3 to 6 months for the ramp-ups to start, and then we're hoping for healthy uptake from these deals in the remainder of the year.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:43:20

When I look at the numbers reported this time, the hedging may have hit the profit number, and I believe there was a relook at the hedging policy. Can you give us more details?

M

Mohit Joshi9:43:34

Like all other players, we do hedge our FX exposure. Given the extreme volatility in currency, we have started to reduce the tenor of our hedges significantly—from an average of 2 years to an average of 1 year or less. That is how we are dealing with exposure. It can go both ways. We are not a bank or a treasury operation; we just want to minimize the risk to our earnings from foreign currency volatility.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:44:05

In terms of hiring, as you ramp up deals, is it going to lead to more hiring? You had net negative hiring for the year at -6.5%. Is that net negative hiring an impact of larger AI optimization?

M

Mohit Joshi9:44:22

The net negative number is slightly smaller than that because you have quarterly variations and seasonality in our BPS business. The way we've looked at it is that a lot of the incremental revenue we generated, we've been able to absorb with efficiency from our fixed price programs. We are clear that our fixed price programs had efficiency to deliver. As people get released from that, we've been using them for new projects. Clearly, as we see growth, we will be hiring. As our COO shared yesterday, even despite muted growth last year, we took on over 900 freshers, and we expect to take on more than that in the current year.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:45:10

To what extent can you give any outlook on more freshers coming in?

M

Mohit Joshi9:45:16

We recruited about 6,000 in FY25. For FY26, it will be more than the FY26 number, but certainly less than FY25.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:45:30

Okay, so the trajectory is not growing in that sense. It's an important broader point to understand.

M

Mohit Joshi9:45:36

It's growing. It's not going to hit an all-time high, that's all.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:45:40

Okay. As we wrap up, Mohit, I want to get your view on the commentary about how Indian IT companies are standing up against the AI wave. How do you answer those questions you're asked all the time?

M

Mohit Joshi9:45:55

My sense is that this is an industry that has evolved over time. I've been part of it for nearly 26-27 years. Over time, the industry has deepened its level of ability to play at the technology cutting edge, developed a very deep understanding of our clients and their industries. As AI gets more broadly adopted, with the need to modernize existing technology stacks and build new AI stacks, the industry has a role to play in this transformation and in building a bridge between the old stacks and new stacks.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:46:30

Thank you so much for your time. Mohit Joshi there, CEO and MD of Tech Mahindra, on the quarter gone by.

M

Mohit Joshi9:46:36

Thank you so much.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:46:36

Hello and welcome. You're watching NDTV Profit. I am Mahima Vasarani, and HS India is in focus on the back of its Q4 earnings. A beat in terms of where growth in cables stands. Lloyds and electronic consumer durables did see a drag on account of Q4 not being a very strong season for consumer durables as a whole. The macro outlook will be something we watch out for in terms of future demand considering competition. To take this conversation forward, we're joined by Anil Gupta, the chairman and managing director at HS India. Mr. Gupta, always a pleasure speaking to you. My first question is regarding cables and wires, your strongest growing segment this quarter. Considering competition is clearly rising, how sustainable do you think this growth is going forward in FY27?

A

Anil Gupta9:47:31

Thank you. Cables and wires, the demand is strong, and HS has continued to invest in the capex cycle over the last couple of years, giving us good capacity for our industrial cables business, which is underground cables. We saw fast growth in the entire year, including Q4. The stronger segment, which is the largest in cables and wires—domestic buyers business—did see revenue flattening in Q4 due to raw material price disruptions and destocking of the channel in the first half of the quarter, as well as a high base over last year. Overall, it's a mixed performance, and we look forward to the coming year.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:48:23

Regarding Lloyds and your electronic consumer durables segment, Q4 is not the strongest quarter due to delayed summer. But now that summers have picked up, how are you seeing the traction of demand for both segments?

A

Anil Gupta9:48:41

Last year was a dampened year due to the summer season. Inventory was built up at the channel, consumers were not picking up material, and the industry faced huge headwinds. Q4 was not a marker because of channel inventories. Going forward in Q1, we should see a stronger summer compared to last year, which would mean higher growth in this business.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:49:14

Mr. Gupta, regarding raw materials, there will be inflation because of the West Asia conflict. How much of an uptick in raw material inflation have you seen, and how much will that impact Q1 and Q2? I believe price hikes will cater to it to some extent, but what is the scenario looking like now?

A

Anil Gupta9:49:42

We are undergoing this challenging period. We started the calendar year with raw material hikes in copper, aluminum, silver. With the West Asia conflict, other products like petroleum, which directly affect engineering plastics, also came under pressure. Because of this, price hikes are imminent and continuing. While the entire cost cannot be passed on, it may affect margins. We are more concerned about how it impacts demand. We are looking forward to a reasonable conflict resolution in the West Asia for markets to settle and demands to normalize in the coming quarters.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:50:34

Mr. Gupta, overall, if you look at sales growth for FY26 compared to FY25, it's been a tough year, with growth around 3-4%. Going forward into FY27, considering demand, competition, and the impact of the West Asia conflict, what are the internal growth projections for top line and bottom line?

A

Anil Gupta9:51:01

Last year, growth was in low single digits also because our major portfolios of air conditioners, fans, air coolers saw negative revenue growth. Going forward, this year looks very positive from all points of view. With price hikes, a good summer, and a low base last year, even decent growth will mean we look at two years as a whole in terms of CAGR. We are expecting much better growth in the coming year due to these factors, and our continued investments in brand, distribution, and product innovation are the real key for our growth drivers.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:51:55

And for margins, will they be in the same range as the last two years?

A

Anil Gupta9:52:02

We strive for normalized margins and increasing market shares. But as I said, the West Asia conflict is something very fast but hopefully temporary. Let's see how margins pan out, but our strive will be to recoup margins through our strong brand, innovation, and distribution.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:52:27

All right, Mr. Gupta. Thank you so much for being so candid with your answers and taking out the time to speak with us on NDTV Profit.

A

Anil Gupta9:52:35

Thank you.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:52:38

L&T Tech came out with its numbers. Brokerages have largely not changed their stance. ICICI Securities maintained a hold rating, cutting the target price to 3,380 from 3,550. They say the company looks robust after the cleanup they have done, but portfolio rationalization dimmed performance in Q4. They cut EPS estimates for FY27 and FY28 by 5-6% due to weaker-than-expected growth in the high-tech vertical. They say FY27 revenue growth will likely be in mid-single digits given strategic change, leadership change, and macro uncertainty. To give us more details, we are joined by Amit Chatta of L&T Tech. Firstly, in Q3 FY26, management explicitly stated they used that quarter to re-evaluate market trends and consult with clients to prepare the 5-year strategy starting FY27. What has Q4 thrown up for you?

A

Amit Chatta9:53:55

What Q4 and the year have thrown up for us: total revenue for the company ended at $1.32 billion. For continuing business, which we will take forward because we divested a part, we ended at $1.233 billion, up 8.3% year-on-year. EBIT margins came in at 14.5%, and net income was 1,281 crores, up 7.4%. For Q4 on continuing business, net income was about 347 crores, up 24% year-on-year and 9% quarter-on-quarter. Mobility has stabilized and will grow in NCY26. Sustainability is up 13% year-on-year, and tech has done well, growing 19.7% year-on-year. North America grew 12% year-on-year, and Europe grew 2.5% year-on-year, and both will continue to grow. For the sixth consecutive quarter, we brought in about $200 million of large deal wins, with one deal win being $75 million over 5 years. Thematically, H2 has been better than H1.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:55:34

Can you provide an update on the large deal pipeline size, TCV trajectory, conversion rates, and expected ramp-ups for FY27 topline?

A

Amit Chatta9:55:46

Our pipeline today is up 31% year-on-year. Our large deal wins also, as we look forward, I am fairly comfortable with the $200 million per year trajectory. Large deal wins through the year stood at about $855 million, up 40% from last year. We are entering FY27 on a good note. Margins are up and should continue to inch upward. Whatever we had to stop doing, we completed in Q4, and you will continue to see the continuing business grow quarter-on-quarter from here on. We've added a 50-million account in our category after a long time, and we're sitting on a number of large deals in the three-digit and two-digit TCV categories, which will help us. Additionally, after a long time, we've added about 500 net headcount. I believe we will add another 500 headcount. The number of AI patents has gone up, and we are pivoting on engineering intelligence. Finally, we made a change: we have a board member becoming the head of strategic initiatives, large deals, and growth markets, and we've inducted our CFO onto the board.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:57:32

Now that FY27 marks the formal start of your 5-year strategy, can you give us a specific revenue growth band for FY27 in constant currency terms?

A

Amit Chatta9:57:43

For FY27, you will see the company strive for between 13 to 15% CAGR. Over the last 5 years, we grew at about 12.4% CAGR, higher than the industry which grew at about 8%. For the next 5 years, I aspire to deliver between 13 to 15% CAGR with an EBIT range of 16 to 17%.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:58:16

But analysts are watching for FY27 guidance as the ultimate needle mover. What are you penciling in there?

A

Amit Chatta9:58:23

FY27 will be higher in terms of growth than the organic growth in FY26 for sure. But we have stopped giving annual guidance; we provide a 5-year view. We are fairly comfortable in the 13 to 15% band over a 5-year period, largely driven by organic growth.

M

Mahima Vasarani9:58:46

Thank you, Mr. Chatta. Thank you for joining us and giving us the way forward for L&T Tech.

T

Tamana9:58:58

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Infosys's fourth quarter performance comes in line with market expectations. Net profit surges 28%, but constant currency sees the sharpest fall in four quarters. Company says CC growth fell due to delays in March and seasonality. Nifty ends in the red for the second straight day, settles below 24,200. Broader markets outperform the benchmark. Pharma outshines sectoral gainers while auto leads a decline. Oil is ripping higher as diplomacy stalls. Brent surged past $102 a barrel. Fresh escalation observed between US and Iran as Trump orders navy to shoot boats placing mines and hormones. As Indian delegation wraps up 3-day negotiation on the bilateral trade agreement with Washington, USTR representative says that India is a tough nut to crack, pointing out India's long-standing protection of agricultural markets. Sources tell NDTV Profit that banks have flagged cyber security threat from Anthropic's new AI model. DFS says addresses the concerns. According to sources, finance minister meets with banks on concerns. GoDaddy Properties tells NDTV Profit that caution is starting to creep into residential real estate with consumers starting to push back decisions due to uncertainty on the Middle East war. Voting in Tamil Nadu and West Bengal: 82.2% and 2% voting in Tamil Nadu till 5 p.m., nearly 90% voting in Bengal till 5 p.m. Indian cheese goes global by bagging four medals including super gold at Brazil event. PM Modi applauds historic milestone.

M

Malika Mishron10:07:24

Hello and welcome viewers. This is Malika Mishron, NDTV Profit, and you're watching Profit 360, a show that gets you all the latest updates on markets, national as well as international news this evening. Let's begin this bulletin by focusing on how Infosys has done in Q4. It reported a strong set of Q4 numbers with both revenue and profit beating street estimates. Net profit jumped over 20% year-on-year while revenue growth came in at around 13%, reflecting steady demand across key verticals. However, the company has struck a cautious tone on FY27, guiding for modest growth amid global macro uncertainties. My colleague Jasmid is joining us for a detailed breakdown of the numbers.

J

Jasmid10:08:06

If you look at the key numbers, they have come in line with estimates, but the guidance is where the overall stance remains cautious. The guidance for FY27 is between 1.5 to 3.5%, whereas the street was estimating 2 to 4%. Though they have maintained the upper band at 3.5% as in the previous quarter, the lower band has gone quite lower to 1.5% on the back of macro uncertainties.

S

Speaker 110:08:32

Which is something that will create a lot of fear in terms of the investors' view going ahead. We look at the other key details. The overall CC growth is down 1.3%, which is below the terms of estimate. We were estimating a downtake between 1.8% and 1.1%, but it's down 1.3%, the largest fall in the last four quarters. Apart from that, the large deal wins are down 33% and have come at 3.2 billion versus 4.8 billion in the previous quarter. While large deal wins have come down on the back of that high base in the previous quarter, which is in line with the estimate and there's nothing to worry about. Apart from that, if you look at the key numbers, revenue is up 2.2%, while EBITDA is up 2.7%. Margins have expanded 15 basis points and reached that 21% mark in this quarter. Lastly, profit has turned out better than estimates and is up 27%. If we look at the other key guidance details, attrition has jumped 30 basis points and reached 12.6% versus 12.3% in the previous quarter. One interesting aspect is headcount reduction. In this quarter, we see a reduction of nearly 8,400 employees in Q4, while the management says this is seasonal and they don't see much impact on the overall business environment, and they also plan to hire 20,000 more employees in the coming quarter. So all in all, we do see numbers coming in line, but the management tone remains cautious and even the guidance is lower, which will be something to watch out for.

H

Host10:09:48

Okay, thank you so much for that breakdown of how Infosys has done in Q4. In fact, viewers, let's listen into what the management had to say on the company's growth guidance.

S

Salil Parekh10:09:59

What we are seeing right now is financial services. We are seeing an acceleration of our growth next year. So we had growth in financial year 26. We will be seeing more growth in energy, utilities, services, resources vertical, similar good growth there. What we are seeing in terms of projects, we see that at the AI investor day, we shared that our AI services revenue was growing nicely. We see on the large deals, the net new is pretty large for the full year at 55%. So that gives us support for growth, and we see the compression that we mentioned at that AI investor day and earlier just now as a combination. We are not seeing something that has unusually changed from last quarter to this quarter.

H

Host10:10:56

Right. Post-market hours, another company that has been in focus for its Q4 is Adani Energy Solutions, which has reported a steady set of numbers with its highest ever quarterly revenue, up nearly 17% year-on-year, driven by continued strength in transmission and distribution. Net profit also saw a modest growth of around 6%. Let's now listen into what the management had to say about their fourth quarter performance.

A

Anil Rai Gupta10:11:21

Adani Energy Solutions has closed Q4 and FY26 on a strong and confident note, underpinned by disciplined execution, operational excellence, and prudent capital management across all our business verticals. For FY26, we delivered our highest ever EBITDA of Rs. 8,726 crore, reflecting a 13% year-on-year growth, while adjusted PAT increased by 32% to Rs. 2,393 crore, highlighting the strength of our earnings quality and resilience of our operating model. Total income also grew by 16% year-on-year to reach an all-time high figure of Rs. 28,325 crore. This was driven by improved operating performance and high service concession arrangements.

H

Host10:12:14

Viewers, now those were two companies that announced their results this evening. But some of these companies that have already announced their Q4 numbers last evening, that's yesterday, have reacted in the stock markets today, and that too on a negative note. Let's start with HLS. Shares of HLS India also fell more than 6% after the company's Q4 revenue came in below estimates. Brokerages have also cut their target price on the stock. We spoke to Anil Raj Gupta, chairman and managing director at HLS India. Let's listen into the part where he talks about protecting their cables and wires business specifically.

A

Anil Raj Gupta10:12:50

We have continued to invest in the capex cycle in the last couple of years, which has given us good capacity for our industrial cables business, which is underground cables. There we see fast growth in the entire year in the fourth quarter last year. In fact, the stronger segment, which is the largest segment amongst cables and wires, which is domestic wires business, did see revenue flattening in the fourth quarter because of raw material price disruptions and destocking of the channel during the first half of the quarter, and also a high base over last year. So overall, it's a mixed performance and we look forward to the coming year.

H

Host10:13:35

All right, next up are shares of Union Bank of India that plummeted over 8% as their Q4 results dampened sentiment around the stock. The lender registered a 1% degrowth in net interest income, plus provisions also jumped significantly, almost tripling on a sequential basis to Rs. 155 crore. My colleague Push Shukla asked Ashish Pande on the company's loan growth guidance for FY27. Let's listen into what exactly his answer was.

P

Push10:14:05

MSMEs who have exposure towards the export segment. Do you see second and third round order impact coming on those, and do you feel going ahead there could be in Q1 or Q2 some sort of stress building? And if you could share the SMA one or two movement as well, as there have been some increase, how MSME is doing on that.

A

Ashish Pande10:14:25

So your first question was basically related to how we see the coming years or coming period. So it is very clear, let me just share with you. We twice, this is the third time I am meeting you in this hall. So we are very clear that you know September when we met, I think 28th or 29th October, we made it clear that yes, then we met in the month of January 13th, I think 13th or 14th, and the growth you have seen, if you take the growth, it is more than 6.5% in the half year. So actually, whatsoever result you are seeing, it is on one six months we are muted, one six months we have tried to make it actually so you see it is more than industry growth if you ask me. So almost if you take 7% straight away, if you take 6.5, so 6 into 4 quarters, if you analyze it is almost 24%. So we will continue with that growth of that industry which is growing even better than that. So very clear, even our CASA growth is much better than the total retail and CASA which we have grown in the six months very fast. Now coming to the second part you asked about, the government of India has come and Reserve Bank of India has also come on the exporters particularly. So in that, I think I'll give you the data. We have already... so 306 applications came through Jan Samad portal. In this, 2,110 are already sanctioned and 180 are already disbursed, and it is related to 20% of the total limit I'm saying. And coming to the Reserve Bank of India trade relief measures, there were eligible applicants of 522, in which we actually talked to all, and then 59 people have applied, and that PC extension is for 35 applications, post-shipment for three applications, and FITL for 40. So in total, 170 and 21 and 49. So we are in discussion with them and we are disposing that as per the eligibility.

P

Push10:16:50

But going ahead, do you see any stress coming up? These are export credit measures. There's no moratorium as such on loan payments, right?

A

Ashish Pande10:16:59

Till now, we have not seen any, it is stable. But yes, there sometimes we hear about more clusters which are in talk. So basically, where the energy-intensive sectors are there, because there was a delay in gas, commercial gas. So maybe these sectors which were more dependent on the energy side.

H

Host10:17:22

All right viewers, now it's time for our special segment. What if I told you that India's next global success story is not software or spices but cheese? Allow me to explain. India's artisanal cheese industry, once a niche experiment, is now stepping confidently onto the world stage. At the prestigious Mundial do Queijo do Brasil 2026, Indian cheese makers didn't just participate, they made an entrance. Four medals including a super gold marked a debut that's hard to ignore. This moment reflects a larger shift as urban India develops a taste for premium handcrafted foods. Artisanal cheese is moving from curiosity to culture. While processed cheese still leads in volume, a new wave of craft producers is reshaping the market and unlocking global export potential. One of the key names leading this change is Mossum Narang, a cheese maker whose work is helping put India on the global cheese map. We in fact have Mossum Narang joining us on the phone line right now. Thank you so much ma'am for giving us your time. Congratulations on the win. What did winning at the Mundial do Queijo Brasil 2026 mean to you personally and professionally? And did you expect Indian cheeses to receive this kind of global recognition?

M

Mossum Narang10:18:49

Firstly, thank you so much. I think the win has been absolutely amazing for my team and I. We've been making artisanal cheese for the past 10 years. So this is a fantastic step in the right direction, not just for us but for the entire artisanal cheese community across the country.

H

Host10:19:09

Right. Miss Narang, how challenging was it to build a premium cheese brand in a market which is mostly dominated by processed products? And are Indian consumers, according to you, becoming more open to experimenting with craft cheese?

M

Mossum Narang10:19:25

So when I started out, of course the challenges had been plenty. So everything from the supply chain to the mindset to the market, the challenges were across domains. Sourcing, of course, India is one of the largest producers of milk in the world, so we have abundance of milk, but sourcing the right quality of milk, partnering with the farms, training the farmers on the quality of milk needed for artisanal cheese making, bridging the gap between the consumer and us producers. As far as artisanal cheese is concerned, as you rightly pointed out, we had been eating processed cheese for the longest time and artisanal cheese is still in its nascent stages in the country. As far as supply chain was concerned, cold chain, and convincing the consumers, not just the end consumer but also the HORECA segment which is still a huge consumer of artisanal cheese products, on the quality and helping them sort of switch over from the imported varieties which they were so used to, to local products like ours. All of these were huge challenges that we faced along the way.

H

Host10:20:39

Right. Actually, you did point out imported cheese. You know, Indians have always taken their ghee and butter to our pride, right? We have it on our plates, but cheese somehow is assumed to be a foreign concept. Now that authentic Indian-made cheese has won an award and recognition on the global stage, do you have anything to comment on that?

M

Mossum Narang10:21:02

I see we actually have a very deep dairy tradition in our nation. So dairy is a huge part of our culture. We consume ghee, milk, chas, the Indian sweets on a day-to-day basis, and also a lot of paneer, which essentially is a heat-acid coagulated cheese. We also have fantastic regional cheeses from across the country like chuti, kalari, bandel, etc. Cheese in the European context, of course, has been not so widely produced in the nation in the artisanal segment for various reasons, for the climatic conditions, for the supply chain reasons as we just discussed. So right now, even though the space is fairly in its nascent stages, we have a huge curiosity for artisanal cheese. The Indian urban consumer is very well traveled. They have a discerning palate. We're all digitally equalized. So they have access to the same, somebody sitting in Mumbai or Bangalore has exposure or access to the same kind of food that someone is consuming in a city in Europe, and there's increasing curiosity for it. And that's where all of the amazing Indian artisanal cheese producers come in who are doing some amazing work, and it's amazing that it's finally being recognized on the global stage because of the craftsmanship and the quality of products that we are producing.

H

Host10:22:33

Miss Narang, according to you, what can people like you do to perhaps make this more available to the common people? Because I, for say, have not tasted what artisanal cheese tastes like or feels like because processed cheese is so readily available in the market and is perhaps more accessible, and I'm assuming the cost of artisanal cheese is also going to be on the higher side. What can be done to make artisanal cheese as widely accepted and recognized and accessible as processed cheese is? And what's next for you and for Indian artisanal cheese on the global stage?

M

Mossum Narang10:23:12

So the reason we had processed cheese in our country is because of our climate conditions, because of the fact that it transports really well, it stays for a longer period of time. And artisanal cheese, I always like to say, is the best way to preserve milk. In our industry, we say that cheese is milk's leap towards immortality. So the best way to preserve milk in its most precious form, keeping its nutrition intact, is artisanal cheese. How do we make it accessible? I think there has to be an ecosystem around it. It has to be a multi-fold effort to correct the supply chain. There has to be awareness. Maybe potential GI tags for Indian artisanal cheese varieties so that they have the recognition that they deserve. And once all of these gaps are bridged, I think it's also important for us to have structured training courses across tertiary technology programs as far as artisanal cheese is concerned, which would then have trained experts creating more amazing products in this space. So yeah, as I said, it has to be an ecosystem and it's a multi-fold effort which will take a couple of years. But I think Prime Minister Narendra Modi's tweet yesterday is a step in the right direction and it gives all of us an impetus to sort of do that. What's for us going forward in the future? I think for us, it's very important to sort of go deep rather than increase our breadth. For us, it's very important to strengthen our supply chain, to create the right kind of product, to sort of create a cheesemonger program that bridges the gap between the consumer and the producer, and explore India first.

H

Host10:24:59

Thank you, Miss Narang, for joining us and many congratulations to you and your team for winning this prestigious title. Of course, this has created a conversation that wasn't happening before. That was Mossum Narang, founder of LFA Cheese, on NDTV Profit. But moving on to another fraud case that has been in focus. We're breaking the story at this moment. The Enforcement Directorate is conducting searches in a Rs. 145 crore municipal corporation Panchkula fraud case. The ED raided 12 premises across Chandigarh, Panchkula, Zirakpur, Dabas, and Rajpura under the Prevention of Money Laundering Act, also called PMLA. The probe stems from an ACB Panchkula FIR alleging massive embezzlement of MC funds, which is municipal corporation funds. Kotak Mahindra Bank officials and a former municipal corporation officer are named in the fraud case. Investigators say fake authorization documents, forged fund migration letters, and unauthorized email IDs were used to open illegal bank accounts. Funds were diverted to private firms and routed back to bank officials and associates. So that's the update that we have on this particular fraud case. In fact, I'm being told that we'll have Shrimi Chri joining us on this shortly. But viewers, this is an important story because again, another bank involved, you have Kotak Mahindra Bank involved, and it's a fraud case worth Rs. 145 crore. What we know so far is that the ED is looking into it and it is related to the PMLA act. This is not new if you look at our past history. In the past couple of months, especially in the Haryana-Chandigarh region, we've come across multiple cases involving multiple banks in such municipal corporation related fraud cases. So a lot of money embezzlement has been seen in the past couple of months itself, and this is sort of adding to that news. So what has happened, let me just revise until we have our reporter also joining us. 12 premises have been searched across Chandigarh, Panchkula, Zirakpur, Dabas, and Rajpura. In fact, we have Shrimi Chri joining us on the phone line. Shrimi, thank you for joining. Give us more details, please.

S

Shrimi Chri10:27:16

Yeah, so we actually reported this a week ago when it was source-based, that such kind of major action in this municipal corporation Panchkula branch where Kotak Mahindra Bank branch is also there. So what the ED statement now confirmed is that as per the ED findings so far, a nexus of municipal officials, bank employees, and private individuals allegedly siphoned off government funds by opening unauthorized bank accounts in the name of municipal corporation Panchkula, and that was done using forged documents. In fact, the investigation named Dilipkumar Ragha, a customer relationship manager at the bank, and Pushkinda Singh, a deputy vice president, who allegedly acted in collusion with Vikas Kaushik, a former senior account officer of the civic body. Now, the ED statement also pointed out that the funds from the legitimate Panchkula account were diverted to these unauthorized accounts using fake fund migration authorization ledgers. And the interesting part here is that the ED statement says that even Kotak Mahindra Bank official names are also emerging in the probe and they are also kind of investigating them as well. So clearly an important action in that regard. And if you would notice, it's Rs. 145 crore of what they projected the kind of fraud which has happened. And in fact, if they give the total amount of the majority value of those investments, it is coming to around Rs. 160 crore, masking the diversion. Searches were conducted at premises of course including all bank officials, private persons, etc., resulting in seizure of evidence, as the ED statement suggests, and it also says that further investigation is underway.

H

Host10:29:10

Shrimi, just hold on. Do we know for how long this fraud case was going on? Because Rs. 145 crore is a very big amount.

S

Shrimi Chri10:29:19

So this municipal corporation case, it's not just included Kotak Mahindra Bank, that one branch which is there at Panchkula, it also includes two more banks. It includes a small AU Finance Bank and one more bank. And the total fraud amount which the ED suspected somewhere in March when they started the investigation is close to Rs. 1,000 crore. Now, one of these banks has been searched and they identified and they have done all sorts of questioning from the concerned parties. But what they are now doing is expanding the probe and trying to establish the collusion between bank officials as well as the civic body officials, the government officials, and trying to get deeper into that. So more info will emerge and that's why they hinted that the investigation is still underway.

H

Host10:30:13

Okay, quite scary. Thank you so much, Shrimi Chri, for joining us with these details. Viewers, it raises a big question on the money that is saved in banks because the money is being siphoned through municipal corporations via fake accounts, and this case for instance highlights a Rs. 145 crore fraud. But onto another important story. Sources tell NDTV Profit that India's banking sector is raising concerns over a new AI system called Mythos built by Anthropic. Mythos is said to have advanced capabilities that could expose hidden vulnerabilities in banking systems. Bankers worry that the AI could access weak points in their data privacy systems and cybersecurity infrastructure. Since banks store sensitive information of depositors and borrowers, this raises serious risks. My colleague Push now joins us with all the details.

P

Push10:31:07

Banks are concerned about the abilities of Anthropic's new AI model Mythos and its ability to find vulnerabilities in almost every major operating software. The model actually found a bug that had existed for 27 years reportedly, which was not found. Banks say that their processes, their internal processes, tech processes, data, every aspect of their tech infrastructure, if there is any vulnerability and this model is able to spot it, then they may not have enough time to plug the loopholes. Banks are also in talks with the RBI about this, and the RBI on its part is engaging with global regulators including the Bank of England, and we understand the Bank of Japan is scheduled to hold a meeting soon to identify risks associated with this new AI model. Banks, as we are aware, are the most vulnerable to any cyber attack because they have a lot of data with regard to depositors' funds, related party transactions, loan disbursals, so on and so forth. Banks have a lot of APIs which are linked to fintechs and other third parties also, wherein if a bug is found, it can be spotted by this particular model, and banks therefore are very cautious about this new development and are engaging in conversations to counter it.

H

Host10:32:31

Right, thanks so much for that, Push. And viewers, that's all the time we had in this edition of Profit 360. This is Malika Mishra. Keep watching this channel.

T

Tamana10:32:51

Hi, I'm Tamana. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories. What happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

N

Nidat Sha10:33:04

Hi, I'm Nidat Sha. Watch me on NDTV Profit for the most incisive market intelligence and meaningful corporate conversations.

A

Alex Matthew10:33:14

And I'm Alex Matthew. Markets, mutual funds, insurance, personal finance. I help you cut through the noise and make smarter financial choices. And here's where you can watch us.

N

Narrator10:33:35

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Speaker 110:34:37

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Speaker 210:34:42

With the tables being turned...

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Speaker 110:34:44

And when the street wants the levels, he brings the chart. Charts speak the truth and I deliver the levels with no frills.

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Narrator10:34:53

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When the headlines move fast, perspective matters. On Editor's Cut.

Infosys' fourth quarter performance comes in line with market expectations. Net profit surges 28%, but constant currency sees the sharpest fall in four quarters. Company says CC growth fell due to delays in March and seasonality. Nifty ends in red for the second straight day, settles below 24,200 levels. Broader markets outperformed the benchmarks. Pharma outshines sectoral gainers while auto leads the decline. Sources tell NDTV Profit that banks have flagged cybersecurity threat from Anthropic's new AI model Mythos. DFS Secretary addresses the Mythos concern. According to sources, Finance Minister meets with banks on Mythos concerns. Fresh escalations in Middle East as Trump orders Navy to shoot any boat laying mines, and crude oil is ripping higher as diplomacy stalls. Brent crude past $102 per barrel mark. As Indian delegation wraps up three days of negotiations on BTA with Washington, MEA says both sides are working towards a balanced, mutually beneficial, and forward-looking trade agreement. While Jamieson Greer calls India a tough nut to crack. ED conducts searches at 12 locations in Panchkula Municipal Corporation Rs. 145 crore fraud case. Kotak Mahindra Bank officials under scanner. Bumper voting in Tamil Nadu and West Bengal. Over 90% cast vote in West Bengal first phase, with over 84% voter turnout. Tamil Nadu records the highest polling. Warner Brothers Discovery shareholders approved the $10 billion merger with Paramount Sky Dance, clearing a major hurdle for one of Hollywood's biggest consolidation deals. Indian cheese goes global by bagging four medals including super gold at Brazil event. PM Modi applauds historic milestone. Winner Mossum Narang calls for more acceptance of artisanal cheese.

H

Host10:37:45

Hello and welcome to India Business Report. The show is your one-stop destination for prime time where there is not just news but also views and perspectives from the world of political economy, business, and global affairs. Today we bring you a special edition of IBR from China. My colleague Gori Dwivedi will give you all the latest updates. Over to you, Gori.

G

Gori Dwivedi10:38:07

Hello and welcome. You're watching India Business Report. I'm Gori Dwivedi. This is a broadcast that's coming to you live from Beijing. It's a power-packed show that we have for you. And the big story, the top story that we are focusing on this evening for you, continues to be the massive uncertainty that has come to light after Anthropic's AI software, and there are reports indicating that there are potential and huge potential risks with regard to cybersecurity, and that throws up question marks for the banking sector and financial system. Investors are legitimately concerned about whether the system can actually withstand and is cyber secure or not. Those are concerns that are being voiced in India as well. In fact, let's play out that very important sound bite for you to really put this in perspective and to really tell you how the government is also now monitoring this situation.

P

Push10:38:59

Banks are concerned about the abilities of Anthropic's new AI model Mythos and its ability to find vulnerabilities in almost every major operating software. The model actually found a bug that had existed for 27 years reportedly, which was not found. Banks say that their processes, their internal processes, tech processes, data, every aspect of their tech infrastructure, if there is any vulnerability and this model is able to spot it, then they may not have enough time to plug the loopholes. Banks are also in talks with the RBI about this, and the RBI on its part is engaging with global regulators including the Bank of England, and we understand the Bank of Japan is scheduled to hold a meeting soon to identify risks associated with this new AI model. Banks, as we are aware, are the most vulnerable to any cyber attack because they have a lot of data with regard to depositors' funds, related party transactions, loan disbursals, so on and so forth. Banks have a lot of APIs which are linked to fintechs and other third parties also, wherein if a bug is found, it can be spotted by this particular model, and banks therefore are very cautious about this new development and are engaging in conversations to counter it.

G

Gori Dwivedi10:40:24

Everybody is talking about it. That is also another both threat as well as opportunity for the fintech industry to experiment what actually can be done to address this. We have three strategic outcomes for Vision 2030. We are all clear that growth alone will not be enough for the country. What we need is growth that is deeply financed, widely accessible, and sustainably supported.

H

Host10:40:55

Absolutely. What we're picking up from government sources is that a meeting was chaired by the Finance Minister today. This was of course in relation to the various concerns that banks have put forth to the regulator as well as the government. What we're picking up from the government is that they have taken and addressed these issues. What they are trying to do now is sort of understand what exactly is the scope of all of these things. This is a very new development even for the ecosystem. Even global regulators haven't really sort of assessed the entire impact of the situation, so the Indian government alongside the banks has taken this up on an urgent basis as well. What we can also expect is some sort of a statement to come out later in the day from the Finance Minister's office with regards to what was discussed in the meeting. What we also can gather is that general cybersecurity and artificial intelligence themes were also discussed at the meeting. There were also officials from the Ministry of Electronics and IT present at the meeting. Apart from that, CERT-In, which is essentially the government's cybersecurity arm, was also present in the meeting. What we're picking up is that of course the DFS Secretary was also a part of this meeting. So a high-level meeting was called today. Most details will be out hopefully by evening today. We'll see more and more clarity come in on what exactly was discussed, but that's what we have on this entire Anthropic AI Mythos issue so far.

G

Gori Dwivedi10:42:30

In top corporate news, IT giant Infosys has come out with its fourth quarter results. They've been better than expectations. It's been a 27.8% quarter-on-quarter increase in terms of profitability. The top line was in line with about a 2% increase, again broadly in line with expectations. But the larger story really is that the company has widened its full-year revenue guidance at the lower end of the band. What does this really mean? What should the street now be looking for in terms of the commentary that's come in and what it means for the company going forward? All of that is being best put into perspective by my colleague Jasmid, who tracks this sector very closely for you, and also listen in to what exactly the management said there.

S

Speaker 110:43:17

Well, thank you for that. We look at the key numbers. They have come in line with the estimate, but the guidance is somewhere the overall street has still remained cautious. If you look at the key guidance for FY27, it is between 1.5% to 3.5%, whereas the street was estimating the guidance anywhere between 2% to 4%. Though they have still maintained the upper band of the guidance at 3.5%, what was in the previous quarter, but the lower band has gone quite lower and it's near 1.5% on the back of that macro, which is something that will create a lot of fear in terms of the investors' view going ahead. If you look at the other key details, the overall CC growth is down 1.3%, which is below the terms of estimate. We were estimating a downtake between 1.8% and 1.1%, but it's down 1.3%, the largest fall in the last four quarters. Apart from that, the large deal wins are down 33% and have come at 3.2 billion versus 4.8 billion in the previous quarter. While large deal wins have come down on the back of that high base in the previous quarter, which is in line with the estimate and there's nothing to worry about. Apart from that, if you look at the key numbers, revenue is up 2.2%, while EBITDA is up 2.7%. Margins have expanded 15 basis points and reached that 21% mark in this quarter. While lastly, profit has turned out better than estimates and is up 27%. If we look at the other key guidance details, attrition has jumped 30 basis points and reached 12.6% versus 12.3% in the previous quarter. One interesting aspect is headcount reduction. In this quarter, we see a reduction of nearly 8,400 employees in Q4, while the management says this is seasonal and they don't see much impact on the overall business environment, and they also plan to hire 20,000 more employees in the coming quarter. So all in all, we do see numbers coming in line, but the management tone remains cautious and even the guidance is lower, which will be something to watch out for.

S

Salil Parekh10:45:00

As we look ahead to the financial year 2027, we see large opportunities in AI services. We also see continued competitive intensity and we see an AI productivity impact. A combination of these things with a clear AI strategic roadmap and a real-world toolkit of Topaz fabric, we are well positioned to support clients' transformation, technology, and operations objectives. A revenue growth guidance for the financial year 2027 is 1.5% to 3.5% growth year on year in constant currency terms. We expect acceleration of growth in financial services and in energy, utility, resources, and services vertical. Our operating margin guidance for financial year 27 is 20% to 22%.

G

Gori Dwivedi10:45:58

The concerns with regard to the Middle East war have led to the crude oil price actually jumping. It's crossed the $103 per barrel mark again, indicating the nervousness that is there amongst investors, and that's exactly what was reflected in the equity markets today as well. Around closing bell is when the markets really felt that nervousness and it tanked very significantly. What does this entire market action really mean? Which were the sectors that were worst hit and what really stood out amidst the sea of red? This quick market check has been done by my colleague. Take a look.

S

Speaker 110:46:36

So Nifty has ended in red for the second day in a row. The market closed below 24,200, down almost 0.8% today. Trent and Shriram Finance were the top losers in Nifty, both of which were down almost 3.5%. The broader markets have outperformed the benchmark indices today, with the Nifty Midcap 150 snapping its two-day gaining streak and ending almost 0.5% in red. Union Bank of India was the top loser in Nifty Midcap 150, down over 7% after the company posted its Q4 results today. The Nifty Small Cap 250 also has snapped its two-day gaining streak, ending almost 0.6% in red, with IIFL Finance being the top loser, down by over 10% today. Now let's have a look at the sectors. The sectoral indices ended on a mixed note, with Nifty Pharma being the top gainer, up by over 2%. In Nifty Pharma, Dr. Reddy's and Piramal Pharma were the top gainers, both of which were up by over 6.5%. Nifty Auto was the top losing sector, down by over 2%, led by Ashok Leyland and TVS Motor, both of which were down by almost 4% today. Also, let's have a look at the sectoral trend. Nifty Pharma has ended in green for the second day in a row, while indices like Nifty PSU Bank and Nifty Oil & Gas have snapped their four-day gaining streak. Also, Nifty Realty, Nifty Media, Nifty Metal, and Nifty FMCG have snapped their two-day gaining streak. While indices like Nifty Auto, Nifty IT, Nifty Bank, and Nifty Financial Services have ended in red for the second day in a row.

S

Speaker 210:48:14

A lot of the strength that we're seeing, not just in the US but globally. Take a look at Korea, SK Hynix numbers coming out this morning. Incredibly strong. That is the tale of two cities of the world right now, because a lot of this AI buildout and the capex is insulated from the geopolitical conflict that we have going around the world. And if anything, the need for behind-the-meter power, for additional power supply sources, that's accelerated because of what's happening in the Middle East.

G

Gori Dwivedi10:48:47

The war, which should have ideally ended by now, viewers, simply because there have been so many efforts that have been made about possible peace talks, but that hasn't happened. It started on the 28th of February, and as we speak, the Iran war continues. There is a ceasefire, but that's indefinitely at play, but that is hardly something that is giving any comfort to investors around the world. The reason for that is the fact that the IRGC is now actually bombing several vessels in that vicinity. Add to it the fact that Donald Trump has now come out and very categorically said that the American Navy is now going to shoot any Iranian vessels that put mines or sea mines in that region, essentially adding to the fact that this is a war that is still some time away from seeing any potential peace options right now. What does it add up to? How does it really look is something that we're going to keep focusing on going forward. But let's play out this important ground report that's been filed by my colleagues who are on ground covering this war since the 28th of February. Take a look.

R

Reporter10:49:52

I'm trying to get the reaction from the people here in Israel, trying to find out what they have to say because a negotiation between Iran and Washington has failed because Iran has made it clear that they will not be sitting on the talking table. They've almost rejected this negotiation offer from the American side. Let me speak to the people here. How do you see this thing that Iran has rejected this offer? They're saying that they will not be coming and sitting on the talking table.

I

Israeli Citizen10:50:16

We are very disappointed. We know that Iran is against Israel all the time. They are doing things against Israel. We don't understand why they are doing it, and we think they will not change their color. We are very, very disappointed.

R

Reporter10:50:34

So what do you really want the United States of America to do at this stage? Because they are keeping conditions that you should open a naval blockade.

I

Israeli Citizen10:50:43

First of all, they damaged the economic situation. And second, Iran needs to collapse and destroy all the things that can be against Israel, all the atomic and all the things that we don't know, because right now the Iranian people are building missiles and everything in order to attack and destroy Israel. Why? Nobody understands. We like and we love the Iranian people. The Iranian people are good people. They want peace. 40 years ago, they were the best of our country. Why not now?

R

Reporter10:51:23

So the people here feel that they are here for peace. They want negotiation. They want diplomacy and dialogue to be given a chance. But if Iran is not keen for dialogue, they feel that there is another option left for them, and that is a kind of warfare, and they should unleash that kind of warfare and teach Iran a lesson. Once again, they should start bombing that country if they don't bend their way.

G

Gori Dwivedi10:51:46

Important policy updates and news coming in which is regards to rice exports. Something that has actually taken a significant hit because of the ongoing war in Iran. Remember, the Middle East actually contributes very substantially to India's rice exports, and which is why the numbers essentially tell the story. 7.5% is the kind of hit that India's rice exports have taken. Shipments have been delayed, payments have slowed down, and add to it the fact that costs with regard to insurance have also risen quite significantly. All of this pulling down India's rice exports. How much is it is something that Mahima in fact explains in greater detail. Take a look.

M

Mahima10:52:29

And you know, we've seen a dip of around 7.5% in terms of rice exports in 2025-26 so far, and overall exports have seen this dip on account of contraction in shipments to major destinations. This is as per the Ministry of Commerce data that we've gotten. The exports in March itself have seen a decline of around 15.3%. And shipments to Middle East regions including Iran, UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Oman have been impacted. Iran is one of the biggest basmati rice export destinations for India. I think the more concerning part is that overall shipments are witnessing growing stress in terms of order flow. Payment cycles are getting impacted, and ship schedules due to prevailing instability are also getting hampered. Plus, on top of that, importers are now saying and have kind of conveyed their inability to honor existing commitments and remit payments to India. So it's not just about overall exports going down, but payments are also getting stuck to a major extent. Now, this as compared to how things fared in 2024 and 2025. Overall, in 2024 and 2025, we exported around 20.1 million tons of rice and produced around 150 million tons of rice, and overall average yields also improved to 2.72 tons per hectare since the cycle began, and this is from 2014-15 to almost 3.2 tons per hectare in 2024-25. So overall, I think yields are also going to get impacted, plus exports being impacted will overall see a dampening and impact in a lot of these rice exporter names. So that's the overall perspective of what's happening in the rice space.

G

Gori Dwivedi10:54:18

This is one of the most significant set of policy details that are coming in right now. The much-in-the-works India-US trade deal talks have concluded, and there is huge expectation that the India-US trade deal could be signed very soon. There are important comments that are coming in from both sides, and we're going to play that out as well for you viewers. But do remember that the India-US trade deal has been in the works for a very long time. And the fact that this comes in right now indicates that this could have a much larger impact in the strategic and geopolitical aspects of this India-US relationship. And add to it the fact that the India-US bilateral trade partnership is also going to get a huge fillip going forward. Listen in to those important sound bites.

M

MEA Spokesperson10:55:05

A team from the Indian side went to Washington DC for negotiations on a bilateral trade agreement. These engagements are ongoing and constructive. Both sides are working towards a balanced, mutually beneficial, and forward-looking trade agreement, taking into account each other's concerns and priorities, and to reach a trade target of US$500 billion by 2030. So that is where we are on the bilateral trade agreement.

J

Jamieson Greer10:55:39

India is a tough nut to crack. You know, they've protected their agricultural markets for a very long time. As part of this deal, they're going to want to protect a lot of that still. There are things though where I think we can find mutual agreement. You know, DDGS is a good example of this.

G

Gori Dwivedi10:55:56

In top national news, extremely important set of state elections. The first phase of that actually for Bengal concluded today. Tamil Nadu of course also voted today. These are most important state elections. Both Tamil Nadu and Bengal is where BJP is taking on the state, very significant and well-established state parties. In Tamil Nadu, it is the DMK versus the AIADMK coalition. BJP of course is part of the AIADMK block. In Bengal, it's a straight bipolar contest between the BJP and TMC. There's been a record amount of voting. What does this all mean is something that we are going to know on the 4th of May when the results actually come out. But as things stand right now, both these elections are going to have a huge impact on not just the political landscape of India but also the overall legislative landscape of India.

S

Speaker 110:56:53

Well, there are two things and the EC has done two things. One is people who are lethargic, people who usually would not turn up, have been in a sense driven into them that this time you must vote because this is one of those votes or elections after the CAA exercise. Secondly, there is that thing that we're talking about about a lower baseline, which means that when you have a lower base, a higher percentage of voting is expected. But apart from that, this is also an election that has seen a huge mobilization by both the BJP and the Trinamool Congress because both parties have really reached out, made that effort to get voters to canvas amongst voters and get them to the booth. So you have these three factors combining to give you this kind of turnout. Not to say that West Bengal had poor turnout earlier. It always had a good election turnout, voter turnout. But this time around, what seems to have really increased those numbers are these three factors. One, the EC in a sense ensuring that people come out to vote. Secondly, the lower baseline meaning there would be a higher percentage because all your voters who weren't there, voters who died, all of that is off the list. And the third point is the canvassing by both the parties making it almost like a do-or-die election.

S

Speaker 210:58:16

What's definitely two factors are playing a role in the rise in polling percentage. Because CAA is also playing a role, but meanwhile the other factor is definitely TVK's Vijay, because we are able to see many youths at Chennai polling booths, how from morning they stood in long queues to vote in favor of their respective parties. But we have to wait and see how much impact it is going to create. As we speak, till 5:00 p.m., Tamil Nadu has recorded 82.24% polling, which has already surpassed the previous election record. Meanwhile, in 2011 it was 78.29%, in 2016 it was 74.81%, in 2021 it was 73.63%. But as of now, till 5 p.m. itself, more than 80% of Tamil Nadu people have voted. So this is going to be a very interesting factor on May 4th, how this rise in polling percentage, whether it is because of anti-incumbency to the present government, or the Vijay factor is playing a huge role, or because of CAA. We'll get a clear picture on May 4th.

G

Gori Dwivedi10:59:22

Before we wrap things up on this edition of India Business Report, take a look at this exclusive conversation that my colleague Nishaar had with Pirosha Godrej, who's taken the helm of Godrej Industries at one of its most important moments. And in this exclusive conversation, Mr. Godrej also highlights that caution is starting to creep into residential real estate, with consumers starting to push back decisions due to the uncertainty that continues to have a major overhang with regard to the Middle East war. Take a look at that slice of the exclusive conversation.

P

Pirosha Godrej11:00:00

I think we have big expectations from businesses like Godrej Properties, which has now been for three years the largest residential real estate developer. I think there's a lot of opportunity for value creation there, as we believe the sales, you know, Godrej Properties has an accounting standard where you only recognize the projects in the P&L once they're fully completed. So sales goes first, then cash flows, then P&L earnings. I think the market is waiting to see those earnings. We're quite hopeful and confident of delivering those in FY28. A big spike up in earnings. We do think that will result in value creation as well.

T

Tamana0:51

Hi, I'm Tamana. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories. What happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

N

Nidat Sha1:04

Hi, I'm Nidat Sha. Watch me on NDTV Profit for the most incisive market intelligence and meaningful corporate conversations.

A

Alex Matthew1:15

And I'm Alex Matthew. Markets, mutual funds, insurance, personal finance. I help you cut through the noise and make smarter financial choices. And here's where you can watch us.

N

Narrator1:36

He has been tracking markets for over a decade, spots the trends before they hit the screen. And he is now bringing his analysis to the show that the market watches.

Watch Shah Dubet on Know Your Company. A show that puts the most traded stocks under the scanner. We dissect the company so that you, the investor, don't have to get the management to answer questions relevant to you.

Watch Know Your Company weekdays at 11:30 a.m. to understand your next big bet.

New year, new power panel, India Market Open, now in its boldest lineup. This is where the trends get tested and stocks get conviction. I'll recommend a buy call on a stock only when I'm fully convinced on the stock.

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Parag Takar and Kush Bhora are now part of the morning crew with Tamana, Niraj, and Alex. Same show, sharper voices every morning on India Market Open. Your favorite market show just got better on NDTV Profit for your profit.

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M

Mahima5:26

Hello and welcome to KYC, that is Know Your Company. I'm Mahima Avatraani and let's try to figure out what company are we going to decode today for our viewers as well as people who invest in a lot of stocks. But let's try to guess the company that we're going to talk about. The first one, let's try to pull up this slide and see leadership in Mangal Sutra segment. This company basically holds the leadership in terms of B2B segment in the Mangal Sutra segment. Listed on September 17th, 2025, so fairly recent listing. The stock is up 29% from its IPO price and that's not been the case for a lot of IPOs that have been recently listed in the past six months. Following now into the gold bridal jewelry, which is a high margin business and also a high value business, which is going to give them leverage going forward considering the manufacturing capacity also that they have. So that's the guess the company part. Let's try to understand which company we are exactly talking about. We are talking about Shingar House of Mangal Sutra. The company specializes in design, production, and distribution of Mangal Sutra both in terms of B2B and it also sells to retailers. So 15 distinct collections and more than 10,000 active SKUs is what the company has in terms of only Mangal Sutras right now. Prominent customers include big names like Titan, Reliance Retail, Nova, Juri, Joel, Lucas, Malaba Gold. All of these are clients for Shingar House. The company also serves 34 corporate clients, 189 wholesalers, and 81 retailers. So it's a complete B2B business that it does in Mangal Sutras. The company is focusing on the high-value added jewelry segment going forward. It has around 2,500 kg per annum capacity and an integrated manufacturing facility. It does all manufacturing in-house. An astute investor has acquired five lakh shares on April 22nd. This was big news, which is why we saw movement in the stock price. The company is now diversifying into gold bridal jewelry. It's a high-value business and high-margin business as well. The company is also shifting its manufacturing capacity from Lower Parel to Kandi Valley, so that's another news to keep in mind. Overall, India's wholesale gold jewelry segment is expected to reach around 48,900 crore by calendar year 2029, suggesting a CAGR growth of anywhere between 9 to 10% from calendar year 24 to 29. The company is growing at a much faster pace. Strong HNI interest is also there in the counter and we've seen good volume growth. A strong distribution network is helping it in cross-selling going forward when it diversifies into the high-value, high-margin business of bridal jewelry. The company is targeting the unorganized sector and underserved tier 2 to tier 4 markets. The focus is from tier 2 to tier 4 markets, which will give the company overall leverage in terms of distribution and selling opportunities. Now let's take a look at the parameters we're going to talk about in this segment. The first one is the income statement, followed by balance sheet, cash flow, return ratios, shareholding pattern, street cred, valuation metrics, and the outlook going forward. Then we will also speak to the management to understand the outlook. We will be speaking to Virat Teshwar, who's the ED and CEO of Shingar House of Mangal Sutra. But let's start with the income statement. The last three-year CAGR growth in revenues has been strong at 21%. EBITDA growing at almost 45% three-year CAGR and net profit has seen a growth of 46% CAGR. A lot of this growth in the past two years has come from rising gold prices. But we'll try to understand from management how volume growth has fared. We have given it a thumbs up. In the past nine months, the company has done fairly well. Revenue growth of 41% year-on-year. EBITDA growth is even stronger at 65% and net profit growth at 76%. Margins have been reducing for them, but foraying into other segments might improve their margins. Let's look at the balance sheet. From a share capital perspective, it got listed recently in September 2025. Reserves have been growing from 128 crore to almost an increase of 500 crore. Total equity has also gone up because of reserves. Borrowings have slightly increased. We'll try to understand why borrowings have gone up, largely on account of both short-term and long-term. Cash and bank balance is an area of concern. We'll ask the management if there is any fundraising on the cards considering the expansion they are planning. Cash flow from operations has turned negative in FY25 and has stayed negative in the first nine months of FY26 at negative 7%. Net cash flows have been negative, so we have given it a thumbs down. Return ratios have been healthy, maintaining the range of 20 to 24%. ROE has been stable at 24% in the last three to four years. We have given it a thumbs up. Shareholding pattern: promoters have been constantly holding 75% into this counter. FI holding has gone up from 4% at listing to 6% in just two quarters. DIIs have been selling and FIIs have been buying. Public holding remains stable around 17 to 20%. There is skin in the game, so we have given a thumbs up. Street cred: from its all-time high, it's down 19%, but from its IPO price, it's up 29%. And from the 2026 low, it's up 26%. It shows high investor interest. Valuations: Titan is trading at 80 times PE, Tangamay at 49 times, Kalyan Jewelers at 36 times, and Shingar just trading at 21 times. Valuations are much more attractive. The outlook: they are diversifying into gold bridal jewelry, which is a high-value, high-margin business. They are targeting the unorganized sector in tier 2 to tier 4 cities. Third-party facilitators are onboarded to drive scale. They are planning to expand to five cities. The total rating we have given this counter is five out of eight. We are now joined by the management. Sir, my first question to you is about the significant growth you have seen in the past three years. Now that you are foraying into bridal jewelry, which is a high-value, high-margin business, what are the plans to grow this segment?

V

Virat Teshwar18:58

Hi, good morning. So the point about the bridal jewelry. As you know, we have been in the Mangal Sutra segment for over decades. For us to grow, being a Mangal Sutra, it is the most key product in a bridal jewelry. For us to grow in this segment, bridal jewelry was a must-do point because the customers we have, currently we have more than a thousand customers who are constantly working with us and we are growing with them. These customers are not only unorganized players but giants and organized players as well. Mangal Sutra is a key product for us, but to grow multifold, we have to increase our product categories. Bridal category was a big demand from our customers as they are seeing a good rise in the bridal jewelry category. We have already started developing and selling bridal jewelry in the market and we are in tie-ups with all the big jewelers, the corporates, the chain stores, and single stores. Bridal jewelry is more than 40 to 45% of the total jewelry market. That is a big jump we are looking at. With the existing customers, we are hoping and we are positive that it will give us a very good boost in terms of growth and profit returns.

M

Mahima20:44

Okay. Virat, with regards to your overall margins, they have been slowly growing, but wanted to get a sense considering gold prices have shot up a lot with the West Asia conflict as well. Where do you see your margins going forward? You are entering the bridal jewelry space. Will the pace of growth be steady or will they be in the range of 6 to 7%?

V

Virat Teshwar21:17

When we talk about bridal jewelry, of course it is a high profit fetching category. The other reason to get into bridal jewelry is that the industry is growing, the category is growing. With the new manufacturing setup we have just recently started, we are looking at producing much more high-value products which can fetch us more profit. With the new setup, we have increased the production capacity, the quality of the product, the range of the product, and the high range of the product. This can fetch us better margins and also give our customers better quality and a top-notch product.

M

Mahima21:58

Virat, with regards to capacity utilization, it dropped a bit in FY25 compared to FY24. What are the capacity utilizations looking like right now and going forward in FY27?

V

Virat Teshwar22:18

The production capacity utilization was nearly around 70% in the previous years. With the new setup coming in, we have almost doubled our capacity and also increased another category with a new manufacturing setup. We are looking at bigger volumes, bigger sales, and majority utilization of the capacity. With the existing customers and the growth they are showing, I'm really positive that the growth ratio is going to be maintained and will increase in the future.

M

Mahima23:03

Got it. Virat, with regards to your borrowings, long-term borrowings have reduced quite a bit. They are almost negligible now. But short-term borrowings, I reckon this is on account of working capital requirements. Compared to your net cash flow position and cash balance, do you think going forward you will need to fund working capital or expansion through a fundraise?

V

Virat Teshwar23:35

Currently we are going phase by phase. We are not going to rush into borrowings. But as you know, with the increase in gold rate, the more the rate increases, the more capital we require. Looking at the existing working capital, I feel we are more than ready for the current season and ongoing business processes. In future, I am not too sure about increasing borrowings, but to increase revenue and profits in the existing working capital has been a key focus for us right now.

M

Mahima24:19

Okay. And what are the store expansion plans looking like going forward in FY27?

V

Virat Teshwar24:28

In the last financial year, we added two new stores: one in Delhi and one in Pune. Bombay is a key main corporate store. Currently, we are in the process of increasing revenue and scaling up in the existing stores. Once we achieve that, hopefully this year or the next financial year, we are planning more stores. But at the same time, we are also expanding through a facilitators module to reach a particular city or state without opening stores. We are aggressively going towards that. If we see potential in another city, we may plan and go ahead for more stores.

M

Mahima25:27

Virat, with regards to your growth, how much of it is coming from value versus volume growth? Gold prices have really gone up. What volume growth have you seen in FY26 and what are you penciling in for FY27?

V

Virat Teshwar25:48

The focus has been on volume growth for us. Value growth is definitely there and we will see it in the numbers over the years with gold rates increasing. But the main focus for us is volume growth. We are dedicatedly increasing the sales team, the entire management team, and the manufacturing team to make it more organized and productive. We are working on how to increase volume growth. The bridal category we have introduced will be a key point for us in volume growth and we are expecting good volume from this new category.

M

Mahima26:40

Virat, considering the volatility in gold prices, what is the hedging strategy in place? How much hedging do you do and how do you cover yourself against that volatility?

V

Virat Teshwar26:53

Yes, we have always been following a hedging policy and we are going to maintain it at the same pace. In such a volatile market, we want to focus more on production and sales rather than on any other aspect. The hedging policy is maintained. Currently, we have a 40% hedging policy and that is going to be maintained.

M

Mahima27:19

Virat, as per recent developments, gold imports were stuck because of a new DGFT rule. What is the progress? Has the free flow of gold imports resumed? Was there any impact on your business?

V

Virat Teshwar27:36

Being in jewelry since several decades, the channel we follow for material procurement means we don't rely on only one source. We have several sources from where we procure gold bullion. We never saw any big challenge in procuring raw material or gold. Because of the system we follow and the multiple channels for our supply, it has never been a challenge for us.

M

Mahima28:09

And with regards to the West Asia conflict, do you have any exposure in the Middle East? Has that been impacted?

V

Virat Teshwar28:18

In the last one month, we have seen the Middle East being disturbed. But Shringar's 98% of revenue comes only from India. We are mainly dependent on India and only 2% comes from abroad. There has been some disturbance, but at the same time, we have seen seasonal growth. There has been an Akshaya Tritiya season recently, which was a very key season with a good flow of customers. Shringar's focus has always been the domestic market, but we are also focusing on the overseas market. We are supplying to the US, UK, New Zealand, and several other countries. The exposure is so vast that volume compensation comes from all over the country and from outside.

M

Mahima29:25

Virat, what is the ratio of exports versus domestic sales right now, and how will that dynamics change going forward?

V

Virat Teshwar29:36

Like I mentioned, 98% comes from the domestic market. With the new category coming in, it will be a key point for us to step into the overseas market. We will now be able to go to our customers with a vast range, not just Mangal Sutra but other categories as well. That will help us penetrate better in the market and get more volumes and sales. The new category will not only increase in India but also from overseas.

M

Mahima30:13

Virat, thank you so much for helping us answer all those questions so candidly and for taking out the time to speak with us at NDTV Profit. All right, viewers, you heard the management, that was Virat Teshwar, ED and CEO of Shingar House of Mangal Sutra. With that, we are completely out of time on this edition of KYC. Do stay tuned for more news and updates on the other side.

T

Tamana30:45

Hi, I'm Tamana. Watch me on NDTV Profit where I break down the day's biggest business stories. What happened, why it matters, and what it means for your money.

N

Nidat Sha30:58

Hi, I'm Nat Sha. Watch me on NDTV Profit for the most incisive market intelligence and meaningful corporate conversations.

A

Alex Matthew31:08

And I'm Alex Matthew. Markets, mutual funds, insurance, personal finance. I help you cut through the noise and make smarter financial choices. And here's where you can watch us.

N

Narrator31:30

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Presenting the all-knowing, all-powerful tech guru. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Guru, I'm no

A

Alex Matthew35:29

Hi, we're talking about your money matters on NDTV Profit and my name is Alex Matthew. Buy when everyone else is fearful and sell when everyone else is greedy. This is something that I'm paraphrasing, but it's a famous quote and it has to do with sentiment in the equity markets. It is something that has proven to be useful and successful more often than not over the past many years. But how do you do this? Is there an opportunity to look at a mutual fund strategy that does this for you without you having to do it? That's exactly what we're talking about today. It's called either the value strategy or the contrarian strategy. Of course, these are used interchangeably. That may not necessarily be the most accurate way to describe it though. We've got Rushab Desai, founder of Rupee with Rushab Investment, joining in to talk about this. Rushab, thanks so much for taking the time. Let me first ask you about this value contrarian strategy that is available in mutual funds. How does it work? What is the thesis?

R

Rishab Bhatnagar36:36

Hi Alex, thanks so much for having me on the show. Alex, there is a very thin line difference between value and contrarian strategies. A contrarian strategy invests in underperforming sectors, stocks, and segments in the capital markets. If a particular segment has corrected by 10, 15, or 20%, then a contrarian investor or the fund manager would be more brave and take aggressive calls in that corrective pocket. On the other side, a value strategy invests in undervalued sectors or stocks or segments. Not necessarily that the particular pocket would have corrected sharply, but it has not yet reached its true value or potential. A contrarian strategy invests in underperforming sectors and stocks, and a value strategy invests in undervalued sectors and stocks.

A

Alex Matthew37:53

Understood. If you look back over the last decade and judge how the performance of these strategies has functioned and what the outcome has been, the fact is that more often than not, a value strategy has emerged on top. Is that not the case?

R

Rishab Bhatnagar38:16

Typically, growth as a strategy has been comparatively more consistent than value because in a value strategy, it takes time for its true price to shine out in the markets. Value as a strategy may be cyclical, but growth would be a little more consistent. We tell our investors that investing in different strategies is very important because every strategy has its time of outperformance and underperformance. Historically, growth has done comparatively much better than value, but when value has played out well, it has given some extraordinary returns compared to growth. If you are investing in a growth-oriented strategy, a 4 to 5 year timeframe is good. If you are investing in a value-oriented strategy, I would keep a 6 to 7 year horizon because it can be more cyclical.

A

Alex Matthew39:27

Understood. That point is well noted because you try to buy stocks and companies that are underperforming, and it is usually at the bottom of the cycle. You have to wait for the rebound to take place. So this is something you have to have more patience with. Having said that, what has the experience been for a contrarian option? Because if you look at the options available, there are not too many schemes, as a fund house has to choose between a contrarian strategy and a value strategy, don't they?

R

Rishab Bhatnagar40:08

Absolutely, Alex. The reason why I like contrarian strategy is that you can play it by investing in a contrarian fund, and you can be a contrarian and play it by investing in different funds, categories, market capitalizations, and sectors. You invest when these are underperforming and have corrected by 10, 15, or 20%, and then take a selling call when they have given good returns. You can be a contrarian investor by investing in a contrarian fund and also by not investing in one, by playing out in different market capitalizations and strategies. I'll give you some interesting data. As per historical data, I pulled out returns of Sensex from 1980 to 2025, around 45 to 46 years. Almost every year, equity markets have fallen on an entire year basis anywhere between -10 to -20%. At the same time, 80% of the time out of this 45 to 46 years, markets have ended on a positive note at the year end. When the recovery phase enters and markets have entered a bull run, markets have not only recovered well but have given superior double-digit risk-adjusted returns. You can actually be a contrarian investor every year because no one has made money by investing in a bull market.

A

Alex Matthew42:06

Is that true though? If you think about it, Rushab, if you invested in 2020 at the start of the bull run, and I'm saying the start because you had that crash and then a bull run. Some argue we are still in a bull run, just an interruption. People have made between 12 and 18%.

R

Rishab Bhatnagar42:33

I'll give you an interesting data point. What you are saying is right. There will be funds that have done well. But at the same time, if someone invested in 2007 when markets were in phenomenal euphoria, and if you take the data from 2007 to 2025-26, many indexes have generated single-digit CAGR returns. But if someone invested during the global financial crisis at the end of 2008, people would have made 18 to 19% CAGR returns. Yes, there will be funds that have done well if managed well, but it's always better to invest during correction pockets because it gives you a margin of safety and ample upside opportunity.

A

Alex Matthew43:36

Good point. But if you are investing on a consistent basis through a SIP route, you don't have to worry about timing. The idea is that you will get close to average returns, which is something most people don't manage to do. Let's talk about some of these strategies though. Rushab, what are the schemes in the contrarian category? What have they achieved over the last 5 years and what stands out?

R

Rishab Bhatnagar44:14

There are not many schemes in the contrarian strategy space. There are probably three or four schemes. One is Kotak Contrarian Fund, second is Invesco India Contrarian Fund, and third is SBI Contrarian Fund. I pulled out some interesting data on a 5-year daily rolling CAGR basis. From January 1, 2020, to April 21, 2026, all three contrarian funds have managed to generate higher alpha, have outperformed the Nifty 500 TRI index many more times, and have delivered consistent returns. These three contrarian funds have delivered superior returns and have outperformed many value funds as well. Looking at the top two performing contrarian funds: one is Kotak Contrarian Fund and second is Invesco India Contrarian Fund. The Kotak Contrarian Fund's average returns on a 5-year daily rolling CAGR basis from January 1, 2020, to April 21, 2026, has been 16.3% CAGR on average. It has generated greater than 12% CAGR returns 84% of the time, and the outperformance strike rate compared to Nifty 500 TRI index has been 100%. The Invesco India Contrarian Fund's average returns have been 16.1% CAGR. It has generated greater than 12% compounding returns 77% of the time, and the outperformance strike rate has been 83% versus the Nifty 500 TRI index. Over the past 6 years, contrarian as a strategy has managed to do very well even compared to many value funds.

A

Alex Matthew46:21

That's very interesting. If you were to discuss the positioning of a contrarian fund in a portfolio, Rushab, how would you go about it? Ultimately, is this something that forms the backbone of your portfolio?

R

Rishab Bhatnagar46:37

No, it can form a backbone. When we look at portfolio creation, we always recommend asset allocation as the standard way. But it's very important to invest across different styles as well. It's very important to invest in growth-oriented strategies, momentum-oriented strategies, value-oriented strategies, and contrarian-oriented strategies. If you are creating a portfolio, 20 to 25% of the allocation can be given to contrarian funds because conarian funds have managed to not only deliver outperformance returns but have also been more consistent. I think a good portion of 20 to 25% can be given to contrarian funds in one's portfolio.

A

Alex Matthew47:29

Okay. If you have chosen to add contrarian in your portfolio, should you also add value? You have described the difference, but you have pointed out that contrarian has tended to outperform value as a strategy. How do you choose between the two?

R

Rishab Bhatnagar47:54

You can keep both funds in your portfolio. Around 20 to 25% can be given to growth funds, 25% to momentum funds, 20 to 25% to value funds, and 20 to 25% to contrarian funds. Allocating equally across four strategies should do the job because every strategy and fund will outperform and underperform from time to time.

A

Alex Matthew48:21

Got it. I think that pretty much covers this topic. Thanks, Rushab, for taking the time as always. Insightful conversation.

R

Rishab Bhatnagar48:32

Thank you so much, Alex.

A

Alex Matthew48:36

It's been a turbulent period for markets as a whole. If you look at March on one hand, your equity portfolios would have fallen through the floor. Then if you look at April in isolation, you would have seen quite a meteoric rise. Earlier today, I was having a conversation with somebody who tracks the equity markets very closely. We were talking about the Nifty 500 index. I asked him how many constituents have risen sharply. He pointed out that well over 300 stocks in that 500 stock index have seen an uptick of more than 30%. That's practically two-thirds of the index. Does that mean the worst is over? Does that mean India's footing is stronger than it was in March? The best way to understand is to look at the positioning in a multi-asset strategy, which is used by fund managers to shift between asset classes depending on where they see the best opportunities. Joining me now to talk about multi-asset as a strategy is Ashish Naik, equity fund manager at Axis Mutual Fund. Ashish, thanks for taking the time. Let me start by asking how your multi-asset fund is managed. There is a broad definition for how this should be managed, and fund managers have different interpretations. Can you explain the product as a whole and how you manage it?

S

Speaker 150:36

Sure. Multi-asset funds as a definition need to be in at least three asset classes: typically equity, debt, and commodities, which are typically gold or silver. Various fund managers manage differently in terms of how much each asset class is required to hold, which is determined primarily by the equity level. If the fund has a gross equity level of 65% or more, it is classified into the tax-efficient category, which is where Axis's multi-asset fund belongs. Other funds can have lesser equity, maybe between 35 to 65% gross equity, giving more room to add debt and commodities. The idea is that these various asset classes have a very low correlation, and the diversification between them gives better risk-adjusted returns. The way Axis manages it is that we have a gross equity level between 65 to 80%, but with arbitrage we can go as low as 30%. So between 30 to 80% net equity is what we will hold in the fund. The remaining portion is debt and arbitrage, and the balance is between 10 to 25% in commodities, which could be gold and silver.

A

Alex Matthew52:13

That's well described. I just want to ask you: in what situations would this change? You described that even if your equity allocation is at a minimum of 65%, you can go significantly lower by adding arbitrage. What situations would cause you to go lower in equity and what situations would cause you to go overweight?

S

Speaker 152:45

We have an internal model that works as a framework for how asset allocation should be done. Various parameters feed into it, including valuations, earnings momentum, macro indicators, and trends. This model has evolved over the years and we use it as a guidance framework for fund managers across our hybrid funds to dynamically manage equity. We also have an asset allocation committee that guides asset allocation to fund managers. We would be very low on equity if valuations are very high or if we see impending risks to the domestic growth story. For instance, in the last two months, we cut down our equity exposures from more than 60% to below 53 to 54%. When the situation reverses and valuations improve and earnings momentum turns positive, we will go higher. At this point, in many cases across sectors, valuations are favorable and we have increased our equity allocation. The start of this year was actually much better for India as a domestic equity market in terms of economic growth picking up with consumption-led momentum.

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