CEOInterviews.AIThe Visionary who changed how India Pays | Ft. Vijay Shekhar Sharma | CEO Paytm

H

Host0:00

Now let's have Abhishek and Chhavi on stage to take this forward.

Hi. So first of all, how many of you run a D2C brand like your own brand? I don't. And how many of you are like the rest of the ecosystem: investor, logistics, inventory, warehouse? So quite balanced. Good to see you guys. Thank you so much for having me here. And Abhishek has already done his self-introduction, so I don't need to do it because I'm right here.

V

Vijay Sharma0:39

But good to see you, Abhishek. I mean, I must say that a few days ago, Abhishek had a Zoom call with me because I was not in town. And the first thing I asked was, why is it called Consumer X? Which you are announcing now. So do you guys know why it's called Consumer X? Anyone of you know this? This is an Elon Musk-inspired story. SpaceX, Consumer X. I'm not kidding this. He told me. A man's dream and expectation should be in that same way, for a moon landing. And rather, a Mars landing. So congratulations on launching Consumer X, inspired by SpaceX.

Don't worry guys, we'll do it here. No, first. Absolutely first, the advantage of a community host is that you should tell everyone first what should be given. But my point I'm saying is, I'm not an investor, but I'm a customer of yours. I am your biggest champion, friend. In fact, I want to tell you, you all must be reading these days that a global brand decided that we will make milk-based products. Another took it upon themselves that this is not a frozen dessert, it's ice cream. So do you know what's happening? Everything is telling you guys to deliver something of a niche segment product, which is what you guys are trying to find out. I was also asking him, what USP are people looking for? What happens is, when you address a very large market share, you become the lowest common denominator. I mean, if you look at a soap and you eat something and you have some snack, you're trying to address a very large market. But India's problem is that whoever treats India as a homogeneous market and attacks it becomes a victim. So there exist so many slices which are independently big, and I'm happy that many of you are able to build those brands. I use everything from your toothpaste to your bath soap, all made by you all. I can say that. So as a customer, I am a very happy customer for many, many of you who are in this room and otherwise. And I do believe that it should be something which is not just celebrated but extended. That is why when Abhishek said, look, I can't take you to Elon Musk, but I can take you to the person inspired by Elon Musk, I said, let's go for it. Congratulations, Abhishek, for the stage. Thank you.

A

Abhishek3:10

Thank you. I think I was also very surprised. I was also very surprised when finally VS sir said yes, because I was chasing him for three or four years: 'Sir, when will you come? Do come sometime.' So finally this time I pinged him, and I keep doing it. Every three or four months I keep pinging him. Same message: 'Sir, this event is there, sir, this meet is here. Please come here.' This time he replied, 'Okay, I can come. I will land in the morning and I can come.' I was like, 'Are you serious? Is that confirmed?'

V

Vijay Sharma3:34

No, no, I've been watching Abhishek for a long time. What everyone said is real. All of us who have been in the internet age. So many of you must have been on the internet since the '90s. I am a '90s kid on the internet. I was using the internet in 1994 and 1995. I mean, many of you may not be users of the internet in those days. My first browser was Lynx. L-Y-N-X. Lynx was a... many of you use vi, which is an editor, a text-only browser. And that is a time that I used. In fact, I still remember my first website. I made it first for Parikrama, the Delhi rock band, and I made that website in '96-'97. To see it was a trouble in itself because you had to download the source code, then you had to view it in a browser because you are otherwise watching in a black and white screen with a cursor moving up and down. And I would say the world is round. From all this we went to the colorful internet and then came back around. Now we are in the age of AI. Now text, text, text, text, text keeps joining. So it's a full circle. Where you start, where you started from, has become a circle. And in those days, the internet that I'm talking about, well, the best was that at that time, information distribution was considered big. I'm sure many of you know that Google's tagline itself is 'democratizing the world's information'. So someone had to do it, democratizing the world's brands. So here is the man, Abhishek, democratizing India's brands to all of us.

A

Abhishek5:13

I think there is a misunderstanding today because everyone has sent this video: 'You are an investor.'

V

Vijay Sharma5:18

No, no, the misunderstanding is this.

A

Abhishek5:20

You are the host.

V

Vijay Sharma5:21

No, it is about me.

A

Abhishek5:22

Oh, me.

V

Vijay Sharma5:23

It's not about Abhishek. Everyone has mentioned Abhishek.

A

Abhishek5:26

Who is Abhishek? Abhishek Bachchan?

V

Vijay Sharma5:28

So.

A

Abhishek5:28

Abhishek Shah here.

V

Vijay Sharma5:29

Oh, okay, okay.

A

Abhishek5:30

But I just want to clarify, sir, because you are first time here, but this is a volunteer and community. Everyone here, everyone.

V

Vijay Sharma5:37

Hello.

A

Abhishek5:37

Yes, no, you bring your microphone closer. Okay, so everyone here has a contribution in this revolution. Yes, I don't think anyone can create the revolution alone, right? So I think everyone has a contribution and it's not just about me.

V

Vijay Sharma5:51

There will be very good politicians too, meaning they will go for votes.

A

Abhishek5:54

This is not me, you all have the support of the people, so my development.

V

Vijay Sharma5:57

Sir, there is someone sitting here who could be the next, whose ambition is to be the next.

A

Abhishek6:02

I am telling you, this is it.

V

Vijay Sharma6:03

That's Vinay from the stage, guys. Vinay from the stage is also here. His business is entertainment, entertainment, entertainment, right?

A

Abhishek6:10

Very good. And here is the counterpart, Chhavi. Chhavi, good to see you.

C

Chhavi6:15

Thank you, thank you, thank you so much.

V

Vijay Sharma6:16

I couldn't have believed that SpaceX is launching or Quts is launching.

A

Abhishek6:20

I got lucky, I got lucky, sir. By working very hard, I got lucky. So we are doing this together. So I have a question: among all these people, how many of them, when you get messages, do you actually know who this is or who that is? Or do you get so many messages in your messenger groups that it's being produced rapidly?

V

Vijay Sharma6:38

Honestly, Abhishek would know 100%. I would know like 40%. I'm being very honest. I have to look at the DP, then tap into memory like that. I think I will use AI for this somehow. Like, anyone, I'll have to make some agents.

A

Abhishek6:54

But practically it's not possible. He would know 100% for sure.

V

Vijay Sharma6:57

Well, congratulations. What a community. Everybody is a fan of.

A

Abhishek7:00

Thank you, sir. Thank you, internet and otherwise here in this room.

V

Vijay Sharma7:03

Sir, today people will say good things. But tell me, where did the investment plan come from? I mean, this is also my question: until now you were running a community. You said it's a community. How did you think about investing in these people?

A

Abhishek7:16

So sir, it's like this. When I started my journey, my only investor was my elder brother. I think bhaiya is here. Where is he? Yes, so he was my only, only investor. I have lost his money twice. The third time he said, 'Now don't take money from me.' From me, you get no ROI. So at that time there was nothing, sir. No angel, no syndicate, nothing was there in 2008-09 when I did my first startup.

V

Vijay Sharma7:37

No, I want to say, by the way, I mean, in 2008-09, angel investor, I would rather say 2009, '99, 2000. At that time, in the internet age, people didn't become investors. They used to come by flight, Ramsharam used to come. Do you know Ramsharam? That's Google.

For two days, two days in Delhi, two days at Taj Bombay, two days in bore, and you would get a meeting for half an hour, full light and sound, and then you get a decision. In fact, the word was 'tourist VC' because they used to travel here. Like it happens, they come to India, so what will they do? Eat jalebi, eat chole bhature, and make two investments and go. That's how it used to be.

A

Abhishek8:24

Absolutely, sir. So you are talking about 10 years later, of 2008.

V

Vijay Sharma8:28

Yes, 15 years ago, right. So I think at that time there was no one in India. There was no infrastructure. There was no ecosystem. So my elder brother was the only check. And the second time also, he was the only check.

A

Abhishek8:36

Bring the microphone closer.

V

Vijay Sharma8:37

Yes, so I think there was always a belief that operators should come forward and back more operators.

A

Abhishek8:42

But at that time, there were no operators. There were some people like you, but reaching you was also very difficult at that time.

V

Vijay Sharma8:46

No, no, we didn't have money either. We were also close.

A

Abhishek8:48

We were also in the asking category, man.

V

Vijay Sharma8:52

Understand, in the food chain, the chain ahead will be formed only when something comes here that can go forward.

A

Abhishek8:58

Absolutely, absolutely. So sir, this entire mission is the community's mission of enabling you, you know, entrepreneurship. And in that, we said that capital is a very important part. If we give access, network, knowledge, but if the founder doesn't have capital, how will he build? So it's like you said, 'When you don't get a job, become your own CEO.' So it was like, when there is no capital, create your own fund. So then capital will also come, and work will also happen. That was the whole idea. It was a mission that we want to democratize capital.

V

Vijay Sharma9:24

So in this, I saw many investors were also your friends. So are VCs friends or do they fight? What is the concept?

A

Abhishek9:31

Sir, this is...

V

Vijay Sharma9:32

I am not one, right? This is a question. I am an individual. You are becoming an investor. So what is your concept? Like, here there are many investors. Thank you. Congratulations also came. So do you see them as friends or as Samsung-type frenemies? Meaning, the deal is mine and also yours. What is the concept? Where are other VCs in this Venn diagram?

A

Abhishek9:53

Sir, there are many friends here. VC friends are here. So today, the first word that came is 'friend'.

V

Vijay Sharma9:58

So sir, it's like this: the way we see it, you know, everyone has to come together, right? So yes, there is competition even within our brands, there is.

A

Abhishek10:05

What is the competition about? I will give money.

V

Vijay Sharma10:07

Yes, so it doesn't happen, man.

A

Abhishek10:08

It happens like this, sir. In a good founder, everyone wants to invest. And when a founder gets one term sheet, everyone has to give one.

V

Vijay Sharma10:13

You know, sir, where are you taking me?

A

Abhishek10:16

So I think the whole objective here is that as a community, we see ourselves as a launchpad. We don't want to compete with anyone. We are collaborating with everyone.

V

Vijay Sharma10:23

Okay, so you take the first check. The first check. Okay, this is a very good question. This is also from the audience. There used to be a typical check. At one time, there was Series A. Then came Seed. Then came Pre-Seed. Now before that, which check came?

A

Abhishek10:37

Sir, now there is one, you know, a common park, if you know, right?

V

Vijay Sharma10:41

South Park.

A

Abhishek10:42

South, South Common Park.

V

Vijay Sharma10:43

-1 to 0.

A

Abhishek10:45

That came even before 0 to 1. They are saying now we will do -1 to 0. So sir, in that, I had a vision.

V

Vijay Sharma10:49

-1 means multiplied, so always. You don't even have an idea, you come to us. We will make something or the other.

A

Abhishek10:54

No, I was asking, what does -1 * 0 mean? If you multiply, will you go into negative or zero? Don't say such things, man. I mean, you are talking with an LP.

V

Vijay Sharma11:04

Potential, potential LP who can become an LP today, guys.

A

Abhishek11:08

Right? My question is, what stage of capital should the people sitting here look at you for? In other words, seed capital, pre-seed capital, series capital, what? And then other founders, other investors, what should they see you as?

V

Vijay Sharma11:25

Sir, they should see as a launchpad to get the first. It's like a friends and family round.

A

Abhishek11:31

Okay.

V

Vijay Sharma11:31

That to start the business, I need something, I need capital. So you make it a friends and family round even before the seed.

A

Abhishek11:37

Absolutely.

V

Vijay Sharma11:37

Actually, make it an F&F.

A

Abhishek11:40

Right? It's F&F, meaning you get...

V

Vijay Sharma11:42

Full and final.

A

Abhishek11:43

Yes, full and I hope it's not full and final. But I think, sir, there is a belief in this that a founder's first step, the first believer, is very difficult to find.

V

Vijay Sharma11:55

Yes, very difficult to find.

A

Abhishek11:56

Okay.

V

Vijay Sharma11:56

So the whole world works in foam. Everyone invests in that.

A

Abhishek12:00

Best. So you say that we are the talent spotter who, by making a move error, turns it around.

V

Vijay Sharma12:05

Absolutely.

A

Abhishek12:06

Walk, come back. Give the money.

V

Vijay Sharma12:08

Absolutely, absolutely.

A

Abhishek12:09

That's how it will happen.

V

Vijay Sharma12:10

More than talent spotter, I would say ambition enabler.

A

Abhishek12:13

Okay, ambition enabler. That's a very good word. What do you think is the definition of ambition enabler, friends and family round, pre-seed and seed round? What is the money that you are going to invest in? What stage?

V

Vijay Sharma12:26

It is going to be mic first.

A

Abhishek12:29

Mic first.

V

Vijay Sharma12:30

Mic.

A

Abhishek12:31

Brother, give him a mic first. Mic first.

V

Vijay Sharma12:34

So, it is going to be pre-seed, seed, and predominantly. Why, sir, is ambition enabler coming from? Because we are powered by a community, right?

A

Abhishek12:43

Yes. So when someone is thinking of building, they are already in the community. So their ambition is already visible to us. Like, IT preparation now starts from class six. I am thinking, take the money.

V

Vijay Sharma12:56

Exactly.

A

Abhishek12:57

Because when you start studying, you will already go to Kaloo Sarai?

V

Vijay Sharma13:02

Oh my God.

A

Abhishek13:03

It is needed before that.

V

Vijay Sharma13:04

So you are saying the friends and family round. The round your brother invested in, that round which is before a formal investor.

A

Abhishek13:12

Is that a good word to say? So this is the friends that you will join together.

V

Vijay Sharma13:17

Yes, we actually put it in our slide also that we will walk you through the gap. That everyone has to go to friends and family. Everyone's friends and family may not be able to give that. If we create a collective of operators and can give it in an institutionalized form, a 3 crore check, that is a sweet spot. That is what we want to do.

A

Abhishek13:36

Oh, applause, boss. What a thing. Very good.

V

Vijay Sharma13:38

Thank you.

A

Abhishek13:39

Very, very nice. What a pitch to come to the launch moment.

V

Vijay Sharma13:44

So, let's talk about it. And you know, I think sir, before that we talked a lot about Consumer X. Launching is important, and we would want you to do that. So you just have to press 'I'. And along with that, sir, if you also want to commit an LP check, you can do that too. No pressure.

A

Abhishek14:01

This one is saying, 'Who gives, his is also good. Who doesn't give, his is also good.'

V

Vijay Sharma14:07

No, no, what's the matter? We are going to see this launch of stepping a new journey. This will happen here, not somewhere else. I am not so scared that it will be on the screen.

A

Abhishek14:17

Here.

V

Vijay Sharma14:18

Right, guys. So finally the wait is over. I guess the entire D2C Insider team has been waiting for a very, very long time for this moment.

A

Abhishek14:28

This moment, true believers of unreasonable founders. Unreasonable founders.

V

Vijay Sharma14:40

Okay, I guess technical glitches are part of any event.

So again, taking a moment one more time, and I would like everyone to increase the energy in the room and let's.

Congratulations.

Super expenditures.

Let's keep the claps coming in.

That party purple never comes in.

Play the video, play the video.

You play the video.

I really like it.

I really like it. I really like it. You are saying 'unreasonable founder' and 'obsessed with consumer'. Because that is, I believe, entrepreneurship is about being unreasonably passionate about, and you are calling it that passionate and obsessed with consumers. Congratulations. Turn on its light, boss. A little light here, you can turn this one on too if you want to come. Wow, there is a cake for you guys to cut. Oh wow, call the community.

A

Abhishek16:04

Guys.

V

Vijay Sharma16:05

Hello, call your friends, man. Your community members, you made the first check, friends.

A

Abhishek16:11

Yes, absolutely.

V

Vijay Sharma16:13

You also come, man.

A

Abhishek16:14

Come, come, come.

V

Vijay Sharma16:15

Come on, man. Community, community representative.

A

Abhishek16:18

Please come.

V

Vijay Sharma16:18

Please, please.

A

Abhishek16:20

Very good.

V

Vijay Sharma16:20

Sir, unreasonable because, I mean, a man. I am sure, sir, when you started Paytm. Thank you. Thank you. Unreasonable is inherent. I think entrepreneurship is a little bit of not accepting the reality because you fundamentally visualize something which you are not accepting, and that means you are unable. Good to see you, ma'am. Good to see you. And because of the first two checks you gave, today's evening is in your name. In return, you just got a cake. No money back. You can have your cake and eat it too.

Well, the point is that unreasonable, what you are talking about, Abhishek, as an entrepreneur, everyone of us who is an entrepreneur is practically unreasonably tough, stressful, stress-capable because common people will give up at those times. In fact, I want to say that a stress and the ability of how much you can handle and be unreasonable, that is the test. How far the line will go, that's it. If you, because you took Elon Musk's name in that way, he is practically unreasonable. I mean, he compresses timelines, he compresses ambitions through a very different level, and that's a perfect way to look at it. I'm glad that you picked up Elon Musk as a motto and the brand name to it. And maybe you did not tell people, but I felt very good telling it. So congratulations once again. Consumer X Ventures, guys. May more investments. Come, come forward, man. Your cake. Please, please, both of you. Both of you, you are the host.

A

Abhishek17:57

Guys, you guys can also join if you want. We can all join.

V

Vijay Sharma18:00

We will clap.

A

Abhishek18:01

Will disturb the whole audience.

V

Vijay Sharma18:02

No, no, you cut it, you, sir, cut it.

A

Abhishek18:05

No, no, I am with you in clapping, man. Please.

V

Vijay Sharma18:08

Yes, congratulations, guys. Chhavi and Abhishek.

A

Abhishek18:19

Yes, huge rounds.

C

Chhavi18:23

Sorry, guys, we are just not used to the limelight. We are used to putting people in the limelight, so this is kind of awkward.

V

Vijay Sharma18:30

Today is your day.

A

Abhishek18:31

Yes, today is your day.

V

Vijay Sharma18:35

Please eat.

A

Abhishek18:36

Thank you.

V

Vijay Sharma18:44

Brother, first.

A

Abhishek18:46

Great cake, guys. Please, you will find it at the sweets counter later.

V

Vijay Sharma18:50

Okay.

A

Abhishek18:51

Lovely cake.

V

Vijay Sharma18:52

Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, body.

So, Abhishek, I have another question for you and for everyone. How do you recognize that this is the founder, company, brand to invest? Who is not building for investors? Who is not building just to raise money? How do you know that? I will ask 'how' five times, so don't think why I'm asking repeatedly.

A

Abhishek19:25

I will tell you first.

V

Vijay Sharma19:27

LP, LP interview is going on.

A

Abhishek19:29

No, no, I am trying to help for entrepreneurs who would have raised at some place and may want to leverage it. So happy to answer the vice versa also. And I am waiting to take such questions. We both are going to do a fireside chat. Every question will be available on that.

V

Vijay Sharma19:44

Exactly the same question could be ported. But my question to you would be: how do you find an entrepreneur whom you would back? What is the ingredient?

A

Abhishek19:56

Speak.

V

Vijay Sharma19:58

Sir, look, it's like this: we have all been operators. We have, I think, drunk that much water. So now, meeting someone, there is no science to it. A VC will give a very good answer: time, trends, market, you know. Anyway, if you are an early round, then for us, my approach is that if I meet a founder and I feel that there is some fire in them and they want to do something, right, then we have to be that spark. Now that spark will either become a fire and burn the whole world, or it will be extinguished.

A

Abhishek20:25

Wow, wow, wow. So.

V

Vijay Sharma20:26

What a thing. That's our job, right? Set fire, set fire, set fire. That kind of dialogue.

And you, because you have become gender-balanced, you have included that. Is there any comment about, I can see lady founders and investors here in this audience about them. What do they bring on the table? What is special about, let's say, women founders who are trying this, and what are the challenges that you see that they are facing?

A

Abhishek20:54

I think we have a lot of women founders in our current portfolio who are building. From an attribute standpoint, I haven't seen a difference. Let's say from a gender standpoint. What I feel is they juggle more. Right? But luckily, at least in our portfolio, most of them are building with their husbands. So they juggle equally.

V

Vijay Sharma21:14

Okay, building with their.

A

Abhishek21:15

With their husband. So there, their husband, wife, couples who are building. But apart from that, I feel that women sometimes, I have seen, are better leaders because they can bring in certain empathy. That they are used to giving to their families, to people around them, and then to their jobs, eventually to their businesses. So I feel that is a plus. But eventually, you cannot be just an empathetic leader. You have to be a reasonably fierce empathetic leader. And that is the journey that every gender, every woman, man has.

V

Vijay Sharma21:49

Wow, very good. Very nice. Good to hear that.

Okay. So we can get on to our conversation. I can't have so, guys. Abhishek wanted a fire chat, and it is obviously a conversation that we will have together. But at the same point of time, I invite everyone of you to participate with every kind of question that you may ask. We both can talk. We don't need to sit down. We can talk like this. So while I am asking, so that there is an icebreaker, I don't mind any question from you to and everyone on these investments and operating it. So make it interactive. Yes. Let's do it like that. I think because and there is no wrong question always. Done. We will actually get some seats. We will do that later. Doesn't want to sure, no. Doesn't want, no. We'll keep the seats behind. Till the time you continue. In fact, sir, we can start from the audience questions.

A

Abhishek22:40

Audience, man, let's do it the other way. Let's start from their question.

V

Vijay Sharma22:43

So I am asking the first question from the audience perhaps.

A

Abhishek22:46

No, no, sir, they will ask you now. Now it's your turn to answer, sir.

V

Vijay Sharma22:50

But sir, before that, you have taken so many questions. Do you want to ask?

A

Abhishek22:53

You asked the questions, so should I also ask for answers?

V

Vijay Sharma22:56

No, no. Overall answer.

A

Abhishek22:59

Yeah. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Okay, anybody in the audience, you can definitely, like Abhishek wants you to answer. He wants to ask the question. But at the same point of time, I want to say from my side. It's very interesting to raise money, and being an investor is like being on this side of the table. Money comes in different conditions. Money always comes with an agreement that is written in it. And it's not the same color of money with everybody. We can switch on the lights if you guys want to, if you have access to the light. And in my view, what I have learned is that while obviously there is a time in life when whoever gives money is good, man. Money is money. No doubt about it. There is no secret about it. That when you need money, there is nothing better than money coming in. But if you ever have to choose, you should take investment from someone with whom you are comfortable talking. Because taking money from a heavy-duty or very complex or very far-away investor with whom you can't get a conversation and talk, because this is inherently a stressful journey where things will go up and down. You need somebody you can talk to. So I always like to have somebody whom I can talk to. I do talk to Masa. I will go to Masa's house, sit in his car, talk to him like we are talking here, and move him. So whether it's Jack Ma, Masa, many people, I have raised money, but I always had the privilege that I could talk. And obviously, many other investors also came whose money I didn't take, but I wish I always was seeking the money that people would have given me a conversation.

Okay, wow, formally here now.

V

Vijay Sharma24:40

Absolutely, sir. I think empathy is a very important feature for an investor because I think the word 'investor' itself is a bit of a problem. I think we are not investors, we are partners in the journey, right? I think it's a business which someone is putting their life into.

A

Abhishek24:53

People are feeling very awkward. You are talking like an investor now, from a community manager. A community manager says 'Inquilab Zindabad'. An investor says 'Make money'.

V

Vijay Sharma24:59

So sir, I would say that we are socialists who have to become capitalists.

A

Abhishek25:04

Oh my God. These 'ists' are of two types.

V

Vijay Sharma25:07

I know.

A

Abhishek25:08

And they are like rice.

V

Vijay Sharma25:09

Right, right. If you burn one with the other, it either melts or extinguishes.

A

Abhishek25:12

So sir, that is the challenge.

V

Vijay Sharma25:14

Sir, right?

A

Abhishek25:15

It doesn't happen that I want cold and hot. What would you like, cold or hot? So that means bring whatever is cold and hot.

V

Vijay Sharma25:20

Yes, sir, hot inside and cold outside.

A

Abhishek25:23

Oh my goodness.

V

Vijay Sharma25:24

Right? I mean, you know, you don't need to show your passion to the world. Right? Go ahead, friend. You just say it like that. I will listen.

A

Abhishek25:31

Mic, mic, and your mic.

A

Audience Member25:34

On the same, we see the challenge. You must have faced initially that an employee, right, and someone from a competitor came and is giving your team two experiences and trying to take them away, and something like that, and someone is just leaving. So they also have a story, and as an empathetic founder, you always listen to them, okay, don't let their spirit down, no problem, but sometimes you feel, man, this is going wrong, and you want to get rude, and at the same time you can't get rude at someone. You can be rude to some, you can't be rude to others. It's a very different situation. So I want your answer.

V

Vijay Sharma26:10

Very good. So our friend asked a question: when you are building a company, you have a small team. One of the team members got an outside offer. How do you handle that situation? First thing, I will tell you one thing. As a founder, one of our biggest problems is that we impress upon the person with our personality and bias. 'I would have done this, I would have done like this. This is the moment I would have reacted like this.' And we believe that the other person will also do it. By the way, this is common human for everyone. No problem. But entrepreneur founders do it more on their team. Like, your agency, company, and business are very different. You are ready to give up every Saturday, Sunday. You are ready to give up 10:00 p.m. at night, tomorrow morning a meeting. You don't mind it. But that human who is an employee, his role is very different. His responsibility and life are not connected to your responsibility of life. If he could also become an entrepreneur, he would have. So he is an employee. We have to respect him as an employee. Because if you respect, empathize, and take care of him or her as an employee, the person will respect and acknowledge more. I have done this many times in my past: 'I am working so much, why aren't you?' or 'Why isn't this work happening?' And the moment you are talking about, where he got an offer elsewhere and left, I would say, 'What madness is this? Why are you going there? That is our enemy's house.' Like that. Or I mean, there can be many kinds of things. You could have, let's say, the type of business you are going into, the type of skill you are going into, things that you have here. It could be anything. Now, the short answer, by the way, I understand you have this problem in your team these days, that's why it's on your mind. This is a global rule. Ask someone what's going on, they will tell you what's going on in their life. You got a chance, so I quickly put my question. I understand. My answer is this: there is a genuinely impedance gap between an employee and an entrepreneur and the founding team. If you are a physics or chemistry student, orbits change between them. We should never assume that they live by and can live by that value. Yes, it is true that some of them will come closer to you because of this. So let them go. Whether they left within the notice period or not. In a long-term business, why would people stay with you? You have to retain them. That's why people give ESOPs. That's why people, let's say, you can give risk-reward linked bonuses. Like, if our revenue reaches this much, I will give you this percentage. So lock in commercial, lock in career path growth, lock in role. By the way, people work for these three things. I am using three different sized fingers. And men and women work for the same three things. First would be title: you give them a CXO title, co-founder title, VP title. Second would be money. So money, title, and work. These are the three things. And actually, men literally shift for these things. Women also shift for these things. But they are reversed. They need more.

Title: respect the work, then money. She may give up on money a little bit if she likes the place. But a man, if you increase by ₹10 metaphorically, he'll be ready to go somewhere else. Now this is not a man vs woman problem. This is all about understanding these three things are the variables. And you have to take care of all three variables for your employees to make them long-term with you. That's a short answer.

H

Host29:54

Okay. Thank you, sir.

V

Vijay Sharma29:55

You are the long answer.

H

Host29:56

Great. Maybe you can just give a quick one-liner on what you do.

V

Vijay Sharma29:59

These people are going to invest.

A

Aniruddh Singh30:01

Sir, already invested, sir.

V

Vijay Sharma30:02

Oh my god.

A

Aniruddh Singh30:05

Sir, we also met last at the Sapocrat event, I think. Myself Aniruddh Singh. I am the founder and CEO of Divine Hindu. And...

V

Vijay Sharma30:10

Divine?

A

Aniruddh Singh30:11

Divine Hindu. And I even gifted you something a long time back.

V

Vijay Sharma30:16

Oh wow.

A

Aniruddh Singh30:16

Yeah. Good to see you. Yes, sir. So, first year, in the first year we did 13 crore. In the second year we closed 54.3 crore, and we are growing and we are...

V

Vijay Sharma30:28

So you are challenging the pandit ji business, the ones in the temples.

A

Aniruddh Singh30:32

All our products are spiritual products.

V

Vijay Sharma30:34

Oh, the ones outside the temple.

A

Aniruddh Singh30:36

Right. That whole market is unorganized.

V

Vijay Sharma30:38

Very good. Very good. Every person who goes there, the first thing they do is buy something.

A

Aniruddh Singh30:41

Right. So sir, that whole market is untrusted and unorganized, and there is the faith of 100 crore people. Whatever they are buying, there is no such brand. At least you need some standard to buy a product, you need some clarity, and people are doing frauds, people are scamming the people just because they come once to pilgrimage sites. So we are making these things affordable at the same time.

V

Vijay Sharma31:04

Have you broken even?

A

Aniruddh Singh31:05

Yes sir, break even.

V

Vijay Sharma31:06

Very good. Ladies and gentlemen, Divine Hindu.

A

Aniruddh Singh31:09

Thank you, sir.

H

Host31:10

Thank you, dost. Thank you, guys. Please go ahead with your questions. You can just intro yourself quickly and then ask your question.

D

Deevanshi31:19

Hi Vijay. This is Deevanshi. I am the founder of The Salt Skin. We are building a new age skincare brand to solve for skincare problems for real. Like people keep suffering for years. And then when we provide the products, they actually help them. So we are solving for acne right now, and then we move on to other skincare problems. We launched one and a half years back. So still figuring out our path to profitability, but yeah.

V

Vijay Sharma31:44

I've noticed that all the ladies launch skincare brands. Their husbands come in later. I mean, even the publicly listed companies, I've seen this. So women are very conscious about skin, as I know, and men are not. So good target segment for yourself. Rule of thumb: be your first customer yourself.

D

Deevanshi32:02

Absolutely. And actually, I worked in the skincare industry for almost a decade. I used to work with Hindustan Unilever. And I was also brand manager at Fair & Lovely. Before I decided to quit and start my own skincare brand because I felt like the beauty industry was just not answering to the needs that people had for real.

V

Vijay Sharma32:18

Now look, we're not talking about your old employer. So you can continue.

D

Deevanshi32:22

So I, I, I you said something very interesting which is like, you know, money is not equal from all places. So I just wanted to ask what's your view. Like, you know, when even like, you know, you come in as an investor. Like because a lot of people in this room are also looking at you as a potential. One. Like, you know, what are the things that you look at from an investor lens? I mean, because you've been both ends, right? You've been a founder, you've been an investor. So, what are the things that are important for a founder to look from an investor and when an investor looks at a founder, what are the things they are looking for and where does the equation break and make?

V

Vijay Sharma32:54

I'm going to give you a hidden secret today that I have seen myself. Someone has a ticket size of a round. Someone needs one crore, someone needs one million dollars, someone needs 10 crore if it's a million dollars. So it's the same number. My intention is to say that 1, 10, 25, 50, whatever, whatever. As a founder, take money from people whose life won't be affected if this money disappears. This is the rule of thumb. I took money from Masayoshi. I mean, brother, he has 100 billion. If half a billion goes out of sight, what difference does it make? No, think about it yourself. If a rickshaw driver takes ₹300 instead of ₹250, you won't worry. I'm hoping you negotiate, but you'll say, 'It's fine, you did good work, here you go,' metaphorically. Always take money from a person for whom your check size is not life-threatening. The one for whom it's life-threatening will say, 'My money first. How are you selling this? Who will bring my money?' This is the rule. Everything else is a story. Always remember, the money you are raising, the ticket size should be immaterial for that person. I invest in the same way, where this is not my portfolio of wealth. I would rather support an entrepreneur, support the cause, support the team, support the leader, and that's it. If it becomes great, it's great. If it doesn't, I understand we made a lot of mistakes and they will learn something and something next will happen. So rule of thumb: always raise money from someone for whom this money does not matter. That's it.

A

Abhishek34:36

Hello Abhishek.

G

Gyanvardhan34:39

Hi, hi, hi. This is Gyanvardhan. I am a business journalist at Intracker New Wave Media Company. Abhishek, my question is to you. There are several funds which are heavily focused on consumer startups. So what makes different for the consumer experience from other funds and what are the modes? Can you throw some tailwinds over other funds that you are going to describe that?

A

Abhishek35:02

Didn't get the last part. What are the most?

G

Gyanvardhan35:04

What are the mode over other funds?

V

Vijay Sharma35:07

I feel that when you become a founder, then you have to have a 'mode'. Right now, even as an investor, you need a 'mode'.

G

Gyanvardhan35:11

No, no, if I say you are a journalist, even then you need to have a 'mode'. So the perception that came to your mind after hearing 'Intracker' is its 'mode'.

A

Abhishek35:19

Absolutely, absolutely correct. So I think good to have you, Gyan, here, and he's been very supportive and publishing all our portfolio.

V

Vijay Sharma35:27

First you decided that he won't write anything wrong.

A

Abhishek35:29

Right?

V

Vijay Sharma35:29

This is the trick all entrepreneurs should learn. Whenever there is a press interview, you always say, 'You have supported us so well.' I'm sure that's not true, brother. It's not like that. No, no, no. I'm teaching entrepreneurs how to talk to entrepreneurs. You understand, right? And if you acknowledge their good work, I'm sure they will do more good work for you.

A

Abhishek35:49

Absolutely. That should be an output, but not the input, I think.

V

Vijay Sharma35:52

Very good.

A

Abhishek35:53

So yeah, I just wanted to appreciate because all our portfolio news goes out on Intracker first. And right. They have always been very supportive. And on Consumer X, I think the mode is only the community, man. I think the power of the community, the power of all of us who can bring not just capital but bring value, bring ecosystem, bring empathy, bring belief. I think that is the power of the community and I think like Vijay sir just said, you know, as an investor you should only invest where you feel that that money is not life-changing money for you, right? So, I think for all of us here, I'm not saying that you know, we will not deliver ROI. Don't get me wrong, sir. You will also put money and get ROI. But I think the point here is that we are not doing this just for ROI. We are doing this because we believe in the cause. Right? And the cause here is that India should produce more global brands, right? And more entrepreneurship should happen, right? And for that if capital is a requirement then capital also has to be enabled. So I think our mode is the ecosystem, man. I think it's the trust which founders have on us. I think in my journey as an investor, as a founder, I have also felt that there is a big gap between investor and founder, right? That's why I don't like the word 'investor' also. Because I feel that that puts you on a pedestal, right? Like you know, investor is sitting in a chair and you are, you know, standing and pitching. I think it's a partnership, right? Everyone should be equal, right. So I think that we bring on the table as operators. We are all your friends and you know we are partners in your journey. And you should be comfortable and you don't need to window dress it. You can be real. And I think Vijay sir asked one question on how do we identify good founders. I think it's a function of knowing these founders through the community, meeting them, interacting with them, and then knowing who is how deep in the water.

V

Vijay Sharma37:25

Oh! Like aunties keep checking. I've seen this boy for a long time. He's a good boy. Marry him.

A

Abhishek37:32

Kind of, sir. Kind of. I think because you know, I feel that when we pitch to investors, we pitch the best version of ourselves, right? But you don't want to invest in the best version, you want to invest in the real version, whether that becomes best or not. I mean, that time.

V

Vijay Sharma37:44

Very cool, very cool. Very impressed. Very interesting.

A

Abhishek37:47

Thank you.

H

Host37:48

Very good, Gyan. I'm sure you got it. But guys, this session is for questions to Vijay sir.

V

Vijay Sharma37:52

No, no, it was a good question for me too and for everyone. It's not like that.

H

Host37:54

Can we have the mic for Noreen? Can you pass the mic, guys?

N

Noreen38:03

Hi Vijay, nice meeting you. So I am Noreen and I am the co-founder of FemiSafe. So FemiSafe is a comfort-first essential brand for women, where we build products to solve the physical daily physical annoyances that women have been tolerating for long. So we started as a period care brand and we have enhanced our scope. So, daily discomforts like sweat, cramps, friction. So that's what we are solving right now. So you just answered a question that you know what kind of investors should founders take money from? But imagine you are writing a check and what kind of founder would you bet on, irrespective of the revenue? So, would love to know that.

V

Vijay Sharma38:39

Very good. Someone who locks the exit door and throws away the key. There is no way but going forward. That is an entrepreneur who cannot go back. Escape is not the path, not on the table. No plan B. Plan B is a bad statement inherently. There is only a plan A and a plan forward and a plan forward. If there is trouble on the way, we will find a way. And if there is a limitation on the way, we will overcome that. There is only one way forward in my opinion. I belong to a club of 100-year-old company club. I mean, in my lifetime, I want to be able to build a 100-year-old company because I assume I won't live 100 years old, plus. So to say, and at the same point of time, I believe that companies are a social commitment and internally they do good to the society. So they have a compounding skill which continues to that far. So escape paths are out of the window for that person. A lot of times you have a great product pitch or a great market pitch. But you have a very weak pitch of yourself. Why are you doing it? Why do you want to do this? What is the reason you want to do this? Because if you did it because you say, 'Let's say these days ABC is happening,' then next day some DEF will happen, another day XYZ will happen. Now GenAI is happening. How do you remain relevant in that age? And all of us may know that success is not a very short-term word. Even if everybody wants everything now, 'I want the world, I want it now' - Jim Morrison. But at the same point, it won't happen so short. It will take three, five, to seven years for that material success to show up. So, for me, an entrepreneur who backs is an entrepreneur who is not giving up, come what may, come what may. That's it.

N

Noreen40:40

Thank you. Thank you.

A

Abhishek40:41

Amazing.

A

Audience Member40:43

So now I have the answer, sir. Time someone asks me this question.

V

Vijay Sharma40:45

I want to tell you one more thing.

A

Audience Member40:47

Yes sir, please.

V

Vijay Sharma40:48

One more thing. Like you started from certain. Picture this. All of you think like this: we left our home. We left from some lane, we left from some colony, some road. Then you come on the main road. More traffic comes there, and then you reach towards the airport through, through, through. So the real company will not be a one grand story. It will be a legendary combination and culmination of many. Why do you want to sell to Estée Lauder? Why don't you want to buy Estée Lauder? Tell me that. Your ambition should be there, then you will get money. My money is for that.

A

Audience Member41:26

Amazing.

H

Host41:29

Next, who is next, guys?

A

Audience Member41:30

Yeah, so congratulations Abhishek. I am thank you Vinay guys for stage founder. First of all, I want to say that in the last five-six years, I have seen you through many ups and downs. Many. I have seen you at extremely low points and it is so gratifying, it is so good to see you sitting here and launching Consumer X today. I am so proud of you, I won't tell you that. Let's give a round of applause to Abhishek for that.

Vijay bhaiya, hi, I want to ask you a question. So last year, and so I think life has changed especially in digital companies in so many ways thanks to AI, right? The work is transforming, things are becoming very different than they used to be. It is becoming hard even to predict next 3 months, 6 months, what will happen 6 months later. Now if any investor asks me for 5-year projections, I say, 'Bro, you make it yourself because I have no idea, man. You might know. I don't know about the next one year, forget 5 years.' Right? So since we have a lot of founders and assuming a lot of young founders as well in this room, they have an opportunity to make AI-native companies. They can choose to make a company which is, today they build that company understanding what all AI can do anyway. So can you help all of us understand what are AI-native companies? What do they look like? How do all of us can benefit from it? How should we think about it? And then maybe part two of the question would be probably what does the future of work look like? And so how should we think about making AI-native companies that will be great? Thank you.

V

Vijay Sharma43:17

Wow! I am glad that somebody talked about AI. I really, really right now I have started using the hashtag 'AI Bull' all because as an engineer nerd, I am not a business college student by the way. I came out of engineering college, I started this company, over the period I learned the business. So practically I am a nerd engineer, and for the nerd engineer, AI is the ultimate fancy fantasy incarnation of the dreams that you would have had. First and foremost, let's understand what an AI-native company will be. An AI-native company is one where a lot of the work we do with our brains will be done by AI. And if you think of an AI-led challenger, in your mind you have to think of someone who is challenging you with AI. Vinay, because you run a stage, you can think: if someone is creating content with AI, if what you are doing gets challenged by it, you are AI-challenged. If anything that they do is augmenting to you, then you are AI-positive. Let me give you an example. My company is from 2001. I'm sure you know it. From 2001 to 2010, we worked with telecom operators. In that, value-added services, ringtones, ringback tones, all these things. And after seeing the smartphone, I said, 'This business will shut down. It's completely bad.' I mean, who wants to use? Who will pay a telecom operator for listening to music and this and that? So I had to reinvent ourselves in a way that smartphone growth grows my company, not eats my company. Literally, in my mind, the smartphone was coming like a ship in an ocean and it was going to climb over me. I used to dream like that, and I had a boat which was my money, a boat of that size, which I had to paddle somehow to the side and anchor it and climb on top. And that is how I used to think of baking Paytm. And I went through: we will do advertising business because there will be advertising on smartphones. We will do content business. Then I got from Outfit and all these companies, Outfit had a game in which there was Talking Tom, where you speak and it speaks. And I was such a craze in the world, and such random games were coming that I couldn't understand how we would do it. So it was so troublesome to believe that whatever I am doing right now in India with telecom operators, it's nil because effectively that is changing. And I can give you an example of another business for your reference. Earlier, one company was selling CDs. Two companies were renting CDs: Blockbuster and Netflix. So someone thought, 'What will happen to my CD rental business with this wave coming?' Technically, this imagination was not very tough: that the world will move towards streaming. And you assume that it will happen in 5-7 years. But you have come to know that it is going to happen. Then you should think of yourself as lucky that this thing which is going to happen, I have a cycle of 5-7 years to do it. So you know what happened to Blockbuster, what happened to Netflix. So in exactly the same reference, each of you has a company. If you are not able to imagine what will happen to your business as a challenger. Rule number one: think of a challenger, who is AI-native, what will that person do? How will you become a victim of it? And how you will be able to do that decides whether you are an AI-positive or a negative company. Straightforward, simple. You will say, 'Oh man, like, for example, ma'am, what you are making, cosmetics, nothing will happen to it.' Now that's not true, I can tell you. I mean, literally, at an n=1 level, cosmetics will definitely be made. I don't have to tell you. You literally go to a mall, go to a pop-up store. You will place your hand like this, and it will instantly tell you this and that, and it will tell you that my product should be made for you. Etcetera, etcetera. I am not dreaming and imagining because I am not from this industry person, but I am trying to say I am not going to have this hot take on people who have brown skin. Brown-skinned people will bear this kind of skincare. Now I would rather say that at an n=1 level, you know, things like those will happen. Customization will happen. People will go through their own expectations. If you cannot think, then think, talk to ChatGPT, talk to Claude, whoever you want to talk to: 'What will my business be looking like if a challenger comes to challenge me?' Don't think like 'What should I do?' Think like 'The one who will come to kill me, and if he comes riding that chariot to kill me, which missile will he break?' Then you will have to put Iron Domes for that one. Got it? That is the answer to how to become an AI-positive company by thinking of a challenger who is going to kill you, and instead of getting killed by that person, kill your business by yourself. And half of the people here, some of them are as a customer, and they are their customers.

A

Audience Member48:16

So I have a question because we come from the world of building value through stories. We don't, we are not business guys. Right? We come from that's our job. And we have been working with lots of brands. We know a little about a lot. Because you work with many you know industries and all that.

V

Vijay Sharma48:33

I like this word: 'We know a little about a lot.'

A

Audience Member48:35

Yeah. I mean, most people in this room know a lot about what they do, right. So, and you know we are thinking has been and when we look at this you know what has been happening, I think India is a very sophisticated country with a very poor interface. And that is happening across categories. Right? I mean, we got, we are working on food and you realize you got the richest cuisine in the world. And then you get it in a laminated menu, you know. So and that happens across industries, right? You seem to be an intuitively good storyteller. My question to you is: why do you know so many of us and businesses? When I say businesses, so many of us are so bad at storytelling. Why don't we have been, you know, the worst at telling our own story.

V

Vijay Sharma49:24

Very simple. We used to get beaten at home. When someone would say, 'Keep your mouth shut. Stay quiet here.' That's how it is. We grew up under our brown. My father did this to me, I got beatings. But you are a child, then how are you able to speak the stories? I left home at 14. I was in engineering college at 15 years old. So I came into a completely different category. But I can tell, all of us are not expected because we don't, I mean, our previous generation does not want us to be. You understand, right? 'Stand, play, jump, then you will become.' You know, all sorts of things. And storytelling is an act of art, science, humanity. Who likes humanities in this country? You understand, right? Ashoka University becoming a milestone for our country. Humanities is not considered a career. Speaking art, speaking brand, speaking marketing is not even considered a skill. 'Oh man, what is this? You want to tell that you do this? What should we do?' Things like that. So now the good thing is that Gen Z is resetting everything. The funny thing is that whatever we built, they are using it and saying, 'Now you've had enough, enough respect. Say 'Jai Mata Di'. So I believe that the next generation's storytelling rush, now we won't understand their story. The words that will come, I won't understand. So your problem is going to be something else. Storytellers will come, and we will keep wondering, 'What is he saying? What are you saying?' I want to ask you: how will you tell a story to a Gen Z? For our brand, we did a brand survey, and as expected, our brand's association was with Dhoni. And someone said, 'If it were a film star, it would be Amitabh Bachchan or someone.' I mean, a slightly aged, stable somebody who you look up to in a way, etcetera, etcetera. Other brands that were there, there was someone like Ranbir Kapoor, there was Ranveer Singh, this and that, which are hip and now. So what is a good brand? The brand that sells is a good brand, not the brand that sees. So our generation's problem, in my view, 30 years as a generation time by the way for all of us to know. Many of us are at the edge of the previous 30, which means that you could be one of the new age and current age or the previous age. But I belong to the previous 30, guys, and that is where the trouble will be. We will not know what our brand needs to say. We will not know what our story needs to be for the new person to be inspired. We will not be able to find out the values that the new customer attributes to you. They may think that it is made from rich Ayurveda, that is why it is good, and the other person will say, 'This is just filled with oil, man. I don't even like the smell of ghee.' You are saying 'rich cuisine', he is saying 'rubbish'. You know, that is where the difference is. So more than storytelling, I am saying: know the customer and tell the story of the customer to the customer. A brand is not your story. A brand is the customer's story that the customer associates with. Those who associate with buy that brand. Not the customer who is telling the story. I am always shocked by that neon color, Balenciaga bag, and whatever. That one, which show is that? Karan Johar and that, yes, but in that, the Diljit Dosanjh show, one where they are doing rapid fire like this, and they talk about a brand and rock about some. Who watches this? I mean, who is the audience of this? The customer base who is a customer base that this drop among these brands will do this. I don't belong to that club. So then I understood that I am now out of the context of this club, man. And maybe the young age does not. If you want to sell your brand, please stop talking about your story. It is about the customer's story. The customer should associate with that part of the story. I mean, in this room, you guys are like interested in knowing what is a fund-raising plan. What is this? Because you are interested in that part of my story. No one is asking, 'Bro, you had so much trouble, how did you survive?' Because you are not associating yet. No. I mean, you are in the context, right? You are in the initial fund stage. You are in the initial part of life where fund-raising matters. In my life, the cycle from fund-raising to post-fund, how is public listing? In one audience, they are asking that. In another audience, they are asking how to raise private rounds. So that is the audience. Your brand is about your audience's association with you, not of your story by yourself. Otherwise, anyone can tell a story. I am also telling a story, and someone at your home also tells stories. 'What nonsense are you talking?' You know, so.

K

Kulbhushan54:16

Hello, hi. I am Kulbhushan. I am also a journalist. I am...

V

Vijay Sharma54:22

Go ahead, sir.

K

Kulbhushan54:24

I am from Entrepreneur India. I just wanted to ask you, Vijay, about from your own experience: what is one message you would like to give entrepreneurs about how to keep up with the regulatory challenges that come and keep changing, and sometimes it becomes very complex for any company to solve?

V

Vijay Sharma54:42

All challenges are part of the texture. Like if we go to eat food, we enjoy different foods, different flavors because they are part of creating its texture. So everything that happens in your life is the texture you will gain. And there is nothing that does not let you die is a bad thing. It's just another texture, another flavor that you will add. People eat charcoal-burnt things, right? I mean, we eat corn, it is charcoal-burnt, and maybe that's its flavor. And if you ask the corn, it will say, 'Oh God, just boil me.' It's not like that. So life is about what comes in front of you and what you go through, and you become that. So there is only one thing. My only statement I always say is: do not give up. That's it.

K

Kulbhushan55:30

Also, one to Abhishek. What happens is like we see a lot of fundings. How much is focus on like you talked about empathy and finding the right founders and so on. That is absolutely okay. The emotional quotient is always fine. But how much of focus is on problem solving? You know, the real Bharat's problems which startups are trying to solve. How much of focus is there? Because there are so many com-chips companies, there are so many cosmetic companies, they are getting so much of funding and so on. They always get that kind of large tickets and so on. But how much focus is on like actually solving Bharat's problems, rural and semi-urban places' problems?

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Vijay Sharma56:12

If you come to an Indian restaurant, don't ask for pizza and pasta. If you come to a D2C event, we will talk about these people, man. This is not a general startup event. This is our Abhishek bhai's D2C event. So in this room, we will talk about brands that are built direct-to-consumer. So that's why we are talking about them. If we were at a generic startup event which includes deep tech and everything, I'm sure we would know which technology problems people are looking at. Startup is an opportunity. That problem which seems so big to you. Like our friend just felt that packaging is not great. Maybe if he stretches himself further and finds a solution, he might say, 'I will solve packaging.' So startup is not just about one thing as a problem. Startup is about what you thought of as a problem. I feel, man, I can't pay the golgappa vendor when I don't have my wallet. Maybe I will solve that. And so on and so forth. So while I totally legitimately acknowledge the requirement of different problems that are there, there is also a need for this. You understand, right? Someone, so customer, a market that exists, every market segment has a need. I do believe that there is value in cosmetic startups and they are acknowledging the customer segmentation that they address. At the same point of time, there is a need for solving for, let's say, climate and deep tech and something else. And there are companies like that. Except this room, I think, is a D2C room. Thank you.

A

Audience Member57:38

Thank you, Vijay sir.

V

Vijay Sharma57:40

Whose?

A

Audience Member57:43

No, no, I am actually launching a brand whose logo this is. And my tagline is this. When I told my team to make T-shirts, 'It will change your orbit.' So we will go to the rocket shift and take it to orbit.

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Vijay Sharma57:53

It's coming. It's not a consumer brand, so no worries. Announcement, guys. It's not B2C type. I have a product. It's an internal product which we consider an orbit change product. That's why. AI, whether it will be AI or not, that's a different matter. But the intention is that this is that metaphor. So this is that team's T-shirt. Yes, orbit change. That's what it is. And I believe a lot in orbit change, quantum leap, all these things. So that's the metaphor. Good. You noticed it.

A

Audience Member58:23

Yeah, very interesting. I just wanted to add to Sparsh's question. So, I think his question was also about why are Indian entrepreneurs not great storytellers and you mentioned that historically we have...

V

Vijay Sharma58:33

But I believe that for an Indian entrepreneur to be a storyteller, you have to come to a city where storytelling is needed. And an entrepreneur is an entrepreneur. Give them the problem, they will bring the solution. What was I going to say, man? I didn't even know the language. I didn't know how to speak English. I am a Hindi-speaking student. I am a student of '37 guna veg sangev'. I am a student of the Madhyamik Shiksha Parishad Uttar Pradesh, Allahabad. I studied Physics also in Hindi. Not Physics, I studied 'Bhautik Vigyan'. That's the truth. But you are a rare nerd who is a great storyteller. You said you are a nerd. I am saying you are a rare nerd who is a great storyteller.

A

Audience Member59:07

Look, that's a good thing. Thank you so much, appreciate it.

V

Vijay Sharma59:09

But the intention is to say that needs came and we became that, and later we don't even know what we became. This journey kept happening.

A

Audience Member59:18

Yes, sir.

Sir, but tell me, did the idea really come from golgappa?

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Vijay Sharma59:21

Which one? Paytm's idea? No, it's real. My wallet was left behind in the Delhi airport lounge and I had reached LA. And I was like, 'What madness is this? The whole world is trying to bring everything on the mobile phone and the wallet still exists.' And my statement was: 'Every pocket has a wallet. Every pocket has a phone. The phone has to be the plan.' Now the question was whose problem to solve? So first I thought, if we solve the payment problem, then every shop, in those days Shoppers Stop was a big retailer. Everywhere cards work. So I said, 'Man, what problem of his shop will I solve? I will solve the problem of the one where I go.'

And where I can't pay. Actually, I am a street foodie. So for me, solving the payment problem for the golgappa shop is like solving world problems.

H

Host1:00:05

Brilliant, actually. Metaphorically speaking, this is the least in the food chain. If you can solve for this person's ease of technology, ease of complexity of the financial world, and ease of understanding, you solved for everybody else upward.

V

Vijay Sharma1:00:22

Wow, amazing.

A

Abhishek1:00:25

Abhishek, congratulations.

V

Vijay Sharma1:00:27

Thank you, thank you, sir.

A

Abhishek1:00:29

I think you spoke about all your journey through that. And I have been a founder for 15 years and gone through multiple moments of refounding. So from one refounder to a senior refounder, can you share? And I have experienced Paytm when I met you actually in 197... those days. When you were hosting in 50 hours in your office.

V

Vijay Sharma1:00:55

Oh yes, I remember that.

A

Abhishek1:00:57

And we were the first few platforms to integrate Paytm payments gateway.

V

Vijay Sharma1:01:03

Okay, early days.

A

Abhishek1:01:06

And I have seen that journey, you know, constantly every few years you are reinventing yourself, refounding the company. Instead of there are a lot of serial founders who go, sell the company and then do another company, but you took one company and constantly refounded it. And I think we are going through that phase right now. And the question is, what are your learnings in that phase, right? You have to change your storytelling, but you want to be authentic. So now, if you get a new founder who just started, you can do whatever storytelling if you have to raise the right investment.

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Vijay Sharma1:01:44

I think the answer belongs to everybody differently because you are a founder, so you would know it. If I say something that can be intended inspiration or a direction, but the true answer will be your own. For example, do you need a new founder for building something new and different segment industry? Maybe not. Because maybe you and your team are enough. Maybe new people are needed. I have seen, by the way, one of the very surprising things I am going to share. My engineering team and technology and product team, in every avatar, I mean every five years we have incarnated into something new. 2001 to 2005, like I told you, ringtones. So totally different business. 5 to 10, it was all about voice systems, WAP, etc., when GPRS had just come. And so on and so forth. If we talk about it, those who don't change get left behind. Those who change come along. So I have 19-20 year old teammates, also 15 years, also 10 years. And I think this is about the kind of people you invite around and attract towards, and whether you need to change them or not, your situation and context. And to reinvent, I think in my company I have made my name Chief Relevance Officer. So that I remain concerned about whether we will be relevant or not. I am inspired by Google. Look at the kind of relevance it shows, and look at IBM which has been a leader. It is surviving and living, but it is not as relevant to a level that Google is. So Google, Apple, these are the kind of companies to look up to where generation change, technology change, and they remain relevant. Microsoft itself is a great example. So I mean, I am inspired by these things. I am not inspired by... I mean, my life shouldn't be such that in the evening there was a fireworks display and by morning people forgot. It should be such that the sun rose for centuries. That kind of story.

A

Abhishek1:03:35

And this is a public company challenge. Public company challenge is at the same point. Time public company brings discipline. It brings understanding that you should not be reckless with resources. You are responsible for public market. At the same point, public market respects these things also. So I would say, there is nothing better a moment than you are into do what you were meant to, and so this is the best moment to go forward. That's it. Why feel bad about it? If you are feeling so bad, just give up and then get into something.

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Vijay Sharma1:04:07

I am feeling excited about it. I am saying the same thing that you are perfectly correct right now to get into something. My question is, as a private company, as a founder, every time you go through the moments you have to change your story, you have to get the right invest... you mentioned fine, get the right investors that align with your, you know, and so your story, your investors, a lot of things change as a company, right? As a founder, and you are telling a new story and you need to find the right investors aligned with the new story. I mean, you have gone from bootstrapping profitably to going to mass.

I am still bootstrapping. Yes, my bootstrap budget has increased a bit. I mean, it's very funny. A 10 million dollar bootstrap budget, by the way, pre-seed rounds have also started happening like that. And if I talk in the context of AI, hundreds of millions of dollars pre-seed and seed funds are happening. So actually, I think my excitement is about what I build. I am a build entrepreneur, not a monetize entrepreneur, if you will. So I really enjoy building, and this is a legendary moment in life. I want to say one line to all of you. Many of you may be technology nerds, and many of you may be something else. But this is the time to build, guys. I mean, this is the time to build more than the previous five years and 10 years have been. And this means that something new that does not exist will be made. Just like we cannot imagine ourselves without WhatsApp, Paytm, and smartphones. I want to tell you, if you talk about 5 years later, 2030, you will literally have to be believing that... I mean, earlier we used to put location in maps in the car. What were we doing before? What was the way? You don't even know yourself. You don't even remember that memory. And that is exactly what I am saying that after five years onward, and three years for those of us who are in the age, it will be extraordinarily different. Extraordinarily different. I mean, I cannot believe, and that is why these companies are trillion dollar valued. It's not like they are randomly valued. No random person has put money. It's a different thing that there will be froth, high tide. All that is acknowledged. But it won't be that dumb. No one is randomly putting money. And I want to say this. This is an extraordinary time to build. This is an extraordinary time to expand upon, and this is an extraordinary time. You should go all in with whatever resources you have. Thank you.

H

Host1:06:31

Brilliant.

D

Daisy Pru1:06:33

Hi, I have a question. Hi, my name is Daisy Pru. I am Founder's Office at Steam Pro. You have been through a journey of entrepreneurship. You said that at different points in your life, you feel stuck. And how do you bounce back? How do you unwind yourself at the end of the day with so great energy of yours? How do you bounce back the next day with unwinding yourself?

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Vijay Sharma1:06:59

My life is just like that, somehow. It's nothing, man. Look, it's a privilege in life that this is happening to you. Think about the stories of so many people in whose lives nothing is happening. I consider it a privilege that in my life there is this opportunity that I got this problem which I will solve and I will move forward. Actually, the size of life is defined by this. The size of life and the size of the problem. The kind of problem you get defines your size, my friend. So it's an opportunity, man. It's a privilege.

D

Daisy Pru1:07:28

Right? It's a privilege. I just want to touch upon that. We at Steam Pro provide hydro wellness offerings. Steam, sauna, cold plunge, jacuzzi, cold chiller. Are you pitching to me as a customer or as an investor?

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Vijay Sharma1:07:41

Both. Assume you become a customer, then become an investor. So red light therapy, snow rooms, everything we deal with. After every stressful day, you go home and unwind yourself. So you had set a preamble about how you handle it. Go here. Wow, I like your storytelling. Very nice. Full marks to you. And JKTyre.

D

Daisy Pru1:08:01

So the jury is building storytelling this way. Very nice. I like the pitch.

V

Vijay Sharma1:08:07

When are you becoming a customer? Tell me that.

A

Abhishek1:08:10

Sir, she is a pro at this, by the way. She is our portfolio, and she goes to every event and asks such a question that the product's name gets mentioned again. What is your brand name?

D

Daisy Pru1:08:20

Steam Pro.

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Vijay Sharma1:08:21

Steam Pro. Yes. Oh man, in life, steam is coming from all sides. You said steam so many times, at least 10 to 15 times I have noticed, but you still don't have steam at home. You have to make it happen.

D

Daisy Pru1:08:36

Good pitch, good pitch. So recently I interacted with Ritesh Agarwal also. As Abhishek mentioned, I asked the same question: why have you not partnered with us? He acknowledged that this industry, the backtech space, is booming right now and they are also exploring the space. And he acknowledged, 'Yes madam, my mistake, we have not partnered with you.' Congratulations. So if anyone is looking to partner, Steam Pro is the right spot. Thank you.

V

Vijay Sharma1:09:03

Everybody.

H

Host1:09:07

Anyone else, guys?

M

Manoj1:09:08

Hello, hello. Hi, this is Manoj here, very close friend of Abhishek sir. Two questions for you, just to inspire everyone in this room. First is, whatever success I have read your entire story, understood it, lived it. God. So I think real, real inspiration from you, and I think everyone in this room would like to live life like you and work like you. So I just have two questions. One question number one: your earlier journey when you were struggling, after the IPO, whatever struggles were there, today you have brought stability, and in your current life, have you changed the way you live your life? I mean, suppose earlier you were working 12 hours, how many hours are you working today? So that every entrepreneur can learn that. And has there been no change in your life? You were the same before, you are the same today. Second question: very relevant understanding. Everyone is talking about AI, technology. I think huge shift. Tomorrow, Apple says put my wallet here. Samsung says, any other, Oppo says use my wallet. So is there any threat, and how do you inspire your team to beat all this competition?

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Vijay Sharma1:10:32

Okay. Thanks, very interesting. Has my life changed? Absolutely. Earlier I used to go to a restaurant. I used to keep money to order one thing. If it was good, I ate it; if not, I still had the same. Now what happens is I order two or three dishes. If this one is not good, I eat that one. Actually, this is the upgrade in my life: that I can order more things on a food table, and I can reject something if I don't like it. And I truly take this as a privilege of my life's money that I earned, that I can spend so much on the people I am going out with, and I can say, 'No problem, bring another one.' And I always tell my people, 'This is on me, be very happy,' because this has upgraded in my life. So one change in my life is that. Working hours? Sir, working hours? Look, if you have a desire to work less, then today is a very good time to start working less. I don't work at all. I rather want to say that I don't work; the enjoyment of... I was calling it a privilege a little while ago when you were listening. I believe this is a privilege to work. I mean, how else would you want to live a life? I mean, yes, it may be stress, but the stress is a privilege, man. You see how many children of rich families whose fathers or parents are saying, 'Get him to do something.' You must have seen many such stories. You must be seeing many people who are asking, 'What should I do in life?' to people who say, 'We have money, but we don't have this or that.' I mean, life is filled with everybody who is cribbing about something or the other. I have never had anything to crib about. I think it is a privilege of my life that I always had opportunity. If I am here, there was always an anchor so high visible that we throw this anchor. If it catches, great; if not, we will throw it again. Apart from that, not much has changed in life. The anchors that go now, they used to go earlier. Let's say they were going for 10-20 million dollars. Now we are talking about 100 million dollars. I don't think even a billion dollars is a one-way anchor because a billion dollars is there. Now if you talk about 10 billion and 50 billion, your game size keeps increasing. And if you don't enjoy it, you will be dragged out. And as for work hours, I don't think I work less. In fact, I want to tell you, a few days ago, if I was tweeting, some of you asked me on the internet, 'When are you sleeping?' because I am tweeting at 2 am, 1:30 am, and I am tweeting at 6 am. I live in this trans. I literally sleep when I am tired, and I get up and I am back to it. So actually, I feel that while sitting here, I have some questions in my mind that I am going to go to the cloud and leave them to the agent, saying, 'You tell me in a while.' Do you guys know? I write a message when available to call me to four or five people so that I don't become a problem in their lives by calling them repeatedly, or even on Sunday they don't get peace. That's why I keep many people in a queue: 'When you are available, reach out to me so that I have something to talk.' And that's it. I think it is a privilege. I think work is a privilege. Many of you would want to live the life of work that I live. I mean, if you like the work I live, there is nothing else, and there is nothing wrong about it. It is from problems that you get your definition, man. The story we were talking about comes in the story curve. You must have gone rafting. There is no fun in rowing a plain paddle until the rapids come, where it's a bit here and there. Life is all about this: adventure, thrill, adrenaline, action, start and continue. So I don't see any problem in life that requires me to work less. Number one. Number two, what you just said to me, the second question was related to what? How to inspire the team to stay ahead of the curve.

A

Abhishek1:14:24

I think look, let me tell you one thing. If you have to inspire the team to remain ahead of the curve and you don't know where the puck is going, then I am sorry, you are in the wrong game. I mean, my game is not that this has to happen. We are also one of the players in this. I have written on my LinkedIn: 'From start of things to significant middle.' As soon as something becomes predictable, I lose all interest. Anyone can do it now. Anybody can build it. So I always remain the person who loves to have extreme ambiguity stage, extreme amount of out-of-syllabus questions, out-of-syllabus problems, and the problems which nobody else has seen. My life has been like that. So that's why I really enjoy the start of things. And when you are talking about how to inspire the team, I just tell them, 'This is what will happen.' Now I will tell you one line in a room. One year ago, I was telling my team, 'We will have to have agents, guys.' For example, now you want to ask me what I am working on. So you will be interested to know. So agents have a hallucination problem because AI had a hallucination problem. But in the last 6 months, there has been a dramatic change. Now there was a chat interface. Now the agent interface has come. So the agent interface will do manual work. Right now I am trying to find out which industry will have more agent impact over others. For example, we talk about replacing call centers. In my view, it's a very materially bad business to replace call centers with agents. No matter how much efficiency you bring, a big company's annual expense is 25-30 million in India, and globally it would be 250-300 million. You will save cost 50%, 100 million, nearly useless. Whereas if you look at coding, the dollar impact is dramatically different: agent-generated code quality versus human-generated code quality. Elon Musk bought a 60 billion dollar company to make it work out for 10 billion dollars. Now I am going through this thought in my mind: which industries will have a dramatic significant impact of an agentic era? And I can call it on the table right now that customer care is a useless industry to fight for. It becomes more effective, but it is not a very large bottom-line business. It is a good business to change into. And that is such a thrill: to have an answer when nobody else has an answer, and to challenge the four people who are talking. My life, I mean, I live at the peak of this excitement, man. When people told me, 'What will happen on a smartphone?' I used to call out. In 2009, we were talking about building an operating system in our office: whether we will build an operating system, a device, or an app era on top of it. And I gave a presentation at Nasscom that value will move in this way and will move into the app ecosystem. Will India be able to build an operating system or not? Will we look up to it? Like nowadays we talk about whether we will be able to build a model or not. This challenge and opportunity is that we will definitely build the agents on top. Now, living in this trans that you are listening in my mind, how do you think who wants to not work? I try to work hard physically, like going to the gym, so that my mind, which continuously runs, does not become a victim of 'Go, son, do the work of my dreams that I couldn't do.' I don't want that life. So the only change I would probably add is that I would go a little more to the gym. There is so much internet content for iron pumping. So I will try that. I have understood that a good mind stays with a good body. So you need a little better than I was a sloppy guy a few days back. So those kinds of things have changed. But the excitement of mind, it is crazy. It is crazy to live in this time. I am rather shocked that people don't see this. And I want to say this again: India, for me, India did not build the OS. MS DOS, Windows NT, Windows XT, then the next one was the operating system for mobile phones, did not build. Then cloud, did not build. Now I don't know if I will be able to do something fundamental in my life or not. And that is the stress and the discomfort that I live in. Obviously, the talk of building agents will come. Oh man, we will make money anyway. As a company, as an individual, and as a country, the problem is when will we go and do something in the world such that we have those balls of anyone. Right now, there are only two countries where everything happens. Everyone else is a customer. How can we become that leader who can rule over this world? And I believe that probably in the 30s, our game will definitely be bigger. And until then, try hard, try hard, try hard.

Superb, superb.

A

Audience Member1:19:19

But sir, for that, the LLM one that you are talking about, which you are relating to the OS, they started building it 15 years ago. So you are saying we will start building it today?

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Vijay Sharma1:19:27

It's not a question of whether you can make it or not. Now my question will always be: it is true that technology is for diffusion, where we use it and we will use it. We use computers. We will use agents. We use cloud services. We use internet apps. We use Paytm. But where is the fundamental? I am very happy that India gave the world QR code-based payment. You think something happens in China? No, the Chinese one is different. The Chinese one is reverse. The customer has to scan at the shop. The customer is showing the QR. That does not work out as this democratization. So problem-solving at that scale. Institutions that are able to change generational scale problem-solving. Systematically, you make a country in a different way. For me, the country's fight is not about how much money I made. For me, the country's fight is that when the table stakes are placed, you can go and say, 'We have this, what do you have?' And that I think is an exciting time for life.

A

Abhishek1:20:26

Okay. Sorry to be in the D2C conference and talk about such nerdy things.

V

Vijay Sharma1:20:30

No, no, sir. I think DC told you a few minutes back that I am very nerdy. So now you know the guy. The guy is a real nerd. It's peace like LLM. Sir, it is very relevant for everyone. It's not about... Go ahead.

A

Audience Member1:20:44

Can we get in the mic? Question.

V

Vijay Sharma1:21:10

Whenever I extended my leg, I got pulled back. No, I will go out myself. I mean, whenever I tried extending, I got pulled down. That does not mean I get knocked down. I get up again and I don't try that. That is what I am saying. To go international, you first have to become king in your own home domestically. You have to be somebody people talk about. You must have seen that ketchup, that Thai ketchup chili sauce. Many of you know that family went from Thailand to the US, made this Thai ketchup chili sauce. Make something like that with India's name on it. People around the world are saying they will buy it because Ayurveda is the nearest kind of product, you know, like your curry will be such a product. If you are doing something in cosmetics, do something of that kind that identifies you. Right now, what happens is we fit in. We fit into Korean cosmetics. We fit into global clothes and toothpaste. We don't yet have challengers which are category creators and category leaders and differentiators. And because of that, we become one of the few in that category. And when you are one of the few, then you have it. Lipton tea used to come earlier, as you know. So, a very bad joke comes to mind: 'Lipton the tea.' Well, the point I am saying is that if you have to make, let's say, a tea brand, you have to make it a different kind of tea brand. You may take two infusions, you may take a different way to produce, you may take a different way to do it. Think about it. What are you buying yourself? It is a different way to do it. That is why. And in my opinion, international customers have enough price insensitivity to buy anything. Because you will not go to a cheaper market. You will go to a sophisticated market. Correct? Let's say UAE, let's say Singapore, let's say Southeast Asia and the Middle East. They have enough market. So bring something different. If you are making clothes, say these clothes are from an Indian herb. Mosquitoes don't bite on them. And if you wear them, your skin becomes better. You know, you can say this is softer than the organic cotton that exists. This is made in this place. I tweeted about it. Do you guys know the Swatch story? Swatch story? No, okay, you know it. So Switzerland used to make watches, and the Japanese killed that industry by making quartz. So Casio, Seiko, Citizen made cheap watches. And in the world, I mean, 23/3 of the Swiss watch industry died, is the word I am using, died. And then this gentleman who is the founder of Swatch said, 'Let's do one thing. We will not make cheap watches now, but let's do one thing: we will make a cheap watch like theirs and keep it as a second watch.' So he launched a watch called Second Watch, that's called Swatch, just in case it's a second watch. And then it made it not like Swiss by creating funky and all sorts of things. By the way, that guy also owns AP, I am the pick, that's why he just did a collaboration by himself internally. Now, what I am trying to tell you by this story is, oh man, the Swiss watch guy gave up his own soul and started making something new. And that is why he created a category of second watches, which went: people will have a rich watch and then a beach watch and a day-night, night-time watch. Do something like that so that your USP is: you are in a geography, you are in a skill, you are in an age and time, you have an ability that creates a category for global. Just because you can, that won't help you.

A

Audience Member1:24:41

I mean, many people have tried. I liked Forest Essentials. When ST Order bought it, I said it's very good, an acknowledgment that the guy created a category. And the person said, 'Oh, very nice. Make something else.' Do you think I won't mind? It's Holi, so what I am going to say is awkward. Do you think that in cosmetics, cream sells? Everyone in this room who is in cosmetics will know that cream takes away the herb and element to a normalized level. It's like adding milk to green tea, effectively metaphorically speaking. So make some oil. In oil, there is the least amount of challenger. So you go globally and say 'Indian oils.' Like ginseng is from there, similarly, your own herb-based oils. The oils when you do this, and you know the benefits of mustard oil, coconut oil, olive oil, cold-pressed oil we are making. Cross over in that. I am not giving you an idea as if I know the industry, but I am trying to tell you: be somebody else so that you get identified.

V

Vijay Sharma1:25:44

You, all, thank you.

Well, my intention is to say: we will build global brands when we become ourselves. We have to make a samosa brand. We have to make a chole bhature brand. We have to globalize those things that are the identity of our culture. Because if we expand that, people will come from outside to eat, to see, to experience. Like Mam is doing Mosapak, the steam one. You will do something in that. You will add some element. Standard steam is global. Who are you challenging? Chinese people. Then it's not possible at all. Make it. It's a good market. But you will add some essential oil, Indian, do something, do something. You know what I am trying to tell you. My element to all D2C players in this room would be: make something that is a USP of who you are. Not something that challenges somebody by being them. If you challenge somebody by being them, your peak is that you are being them. Your peak is that you will be one of them. When you are not in their lane, you can cross them. You can become somebody new because you start something new. Thank you so much.

A

Abhishek1:26:56

This actually says time out.

A

Audience Member1:27:02

Sir, I think we have Samosa Party in the portfolio. So you mentioned samosa. And they are serving.

The Visionary who changed how India Pays | Ft. Vijay Shekhar Sharma | CEO Paytm | D2C Insider

About Vijay Sharma