I've given up my driver's license more often than I've attended schools, and I've attended a lot of schools. I take the train several times a week. I don't make a secret of it. I've been a Bank 100 owner for over 10 years, and even if you privately want to make a party train, you can register it and follow the same process.
Hi and welcome to the Digitalwerk Podcast. My name is Michelle Philip Maron and I'm interested in how we will build, live, and move in the future. I invite the people shaping that future every week. I'm looking forward to a mobility episode. Daniel Kraus is my guest, one of the founders of Flix Train. If you want to know if there will soon be a Flix 100 train card, stay tuned. You can actually buy your own train and stop at Berlin Central Station. Luxury yachts and helicopters are yesterday; trains are now. Have fun with the episode. A commercial and then it really starts.
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And now enjoy the episode. Tell me, Daniel, can you still remember your coolest bus ride?
Well, 'cool' is a matter of definition. I'll leave that to you. But I remember a bus ride very well, and that's saying something because I've only taken the bus two or three times. A fun ride, a beautiful ride. Yes, from Berlin to Innsbruck overnight.
Okay. What was special about it?
It was unplanned, and I think the first time I had a hotel room just for showering. And definitely the only time I called our operations center to ask if the bus could leave ten minutes later.
That's sometimes an advantage when you can fall back on that.
I would never do that normally. This time we had a parliamentary evening. Lufthansa let me down due to a strike. I thought Deutsche Bahn would fail me, but it was a different German transport company. The only way to get to Innsbruck in time was our night bus. I was at Alexanderplatz, the bus left from Messe, and it was very tight—so tight that I used the speed dial for the first and only time.
Okay. Do you still often take the bus or train with your buses or trains?
Yes, I take the train several times a week. I've been a Bank 100 card owner for over 10 years. When our new fleet is on the tracks, that might change, but I'm a big train fan. I live near Nuremberg, work in Munich and Berlin. I use the train most but also take the bus, especially for west routes like Munich to Lake Constance. I'm a fan of South Tyrol; the Munich-Meran route is great. Also, from Lübeck to Berlin there's a good bus connection. So I take both, but more train.
What's it like sitting in your own bus or train company? Loosely, as co-founder and co-owner.
The term 'own' doesn't fit how I operate. We founded it as three people, now we have hundreds or a thousand people running Flix. It's a partnership network with hundreds of partners. It's a community effort. I feel privileged to help drive it forward. But 'my own'? I last thought that in the sandbox about toys.
What is the most unknown fact about you? You've done many podcasts, so I decided not to go into the founding story in detail. But we'll summarize it for context.
Not much is super unknown because I'm authentic. If people ask, I answer honestly. But one less-known fact: I've given up my driver's license more often than I've attended schools—and I've attended a lot of schools.
That makes you even more likeable. But let's summarize: why start a company with others, one that deals with mobility?
Two questions. You start with others because division of labor matters. When you compare Andrej, Jochen, and me, we are very different with different strengths. Together we are more successful and resilient. How we got into mobility: opportunism. We wanted to do something real. At the time, there was an app hype, but we wanted something tangible that moves people. The government liberalized the bus market, so we went for it. Without that, we might have done something else. I had jobs at Siemens, IFS, Markwart, and Microsoft before Flix. I'm the tech guy.
What central points from those experiences do you think are responsible?
I founded about 10 years after starting work, so I had experience in hiring, building organizations, and seeing what doesn't work. That repertoire helps. At Microsoft, the performance culture taught me what matters. It's not a single secret; it's a toolbox. Our toolbox was fuller than if you found straight after university, and that was helpful.
I didn't have that history; I founded straight away. I had to build my toolbox through trial and error. When Flixbus started, I was curious about the branding—not the name, but how you chose the colors?
Simple. When we founded, we were blue. Before that, GoBus had a red logo, but it was ugly. The green we have today came from the merger of MeinFernbus (green) and Flixbus (blue). We wanted 'the best of both worlds.' The combination worked, and Flix is easier to internationalize.
Thanks. Color, design, and taste are another matter, but I understand. The red was really off. And blue was actually your second choice? Really?
MeinFernbus launched first, so green was taken. Other competitors had yellow and dark blue. Postbus was bright yellow. So blue was left. It was cool, but green was always better. The merger happened between 2014 and 2015, and we're very happy.
We can introduce Flix. I asked: how do we approach this? From the perspective of the Digitalwerk community, did you look at mobility from that perspective, or were you more like 'we want to build a platform, let's look at customer pain points'?
The truth is we became aware because the government transposed an EU directive quickly. The trigger was that in other countries buses are huge markets, but not in Germany. We thought the market is big enough. The idea matters, but the decisive factor is market size. At that time, we had no idea about transport. We built scrapers to understand demand. We started demand-oriented from day one. That's what differentiates Flix from state players. Over time, we learned that transport works like gravity. It started with 'qualified cluelessness' and figuring out where to find enough people to fill buses.
How do you view urban traffic? Because you cover long distances, but not city traffic. Traffic is opportunistic; each person has a need. Can it be controlled by software or platform?
Siemens traffic light systems have been smart for decades. Many German cities were rebuilt with cars in mind. But the need is to go from A to B. I believe strongly in public transport. In inner cities, public transport is essential, but sometimes you need pooling like Moja in Hamburg. In high-volume places like Tokyo, subways run every second. I also believe in trams and buses. But there are use cases for cars, like Miles. I take Miles to go to IKEA. In small towns with kids, a van is useful. That's the big driver.
Okay, so that's how you view traffic or how Flix views it?
We stand for public transport. Not all cars must go, but for point-to-point routes, more people should take buses and trains. It's cheaper and more sustainable. But sometimes you need a car to transport things or kids. Convenience is a factor. You can take bikes on our buses, but if you go to the Baltic Sea with a full minibus, it might not be right for other passengers.
You mentioned sustainability. You came to your business model through a different path, but it fits perfectly.
We are analytical enough to calculate it. A modern bus doesn't use much more fuel than a big SUV, divided by 50 people. But we didn't have that in mind from day one. Soon after founding, we found a study that said a diesel bus has less CO2 per capita than a train. We thought that's great, we'll take it. It became part of our story. People often ask about Flix Flight. That's not our business. If I did that with current planes, half the team would leave because our purpose is affordable and sustainable transport.
What exactly is your business? Can you briefly explain for the audience?
Transport works like gravity. If two things are close and big, you can move people between them. There are many medium-sized bus companies in Germany, strong regionally. Our network provides a unified offer. Like Amazon, you need a nationwide network. The price is secondary. The art is to build a network from strong local operators, standardize the product with WiFi, power outlets, etc. This works through software. That's the platform idea: B2B on the partner side, B2C on the customer side. We bring customers together and distribute them into buses. Partner companies serve them reliably, and customers deal with us for service.
Just to clarify: from the start, they were not your own buses, but local operators?
What was the first moment when a bus company agreed to put your color on the bus?
That was challenging. These are full-blooded entrepreneurs. Their family names were on the buses. We said it has to be cool. There were creative designs at the beginning, and we weren't strict because we just wanted buses. We sent letters to thousands of bus companies. Eventually, seven agreed. That's a terrible conversion rate.
Yes, and they were more interested in bus color, toilet emptying, and bus stops. We said we'd find solutions.
Exactly. We were clear and strict that there must be a recognition value. The same product everywhere.
