ALEXANDRE BOMPARD, PDG DE CARREFOUR:LE QUOTIDIEN D’UN PATRON AUX 100 MILLIARDS DE CHIFFRE D’AFFAIRES

I am Alexandre Bompard, CEO of the Carrefour group. We'll talk about Carrefour, consumption, business, media, all the things I love.

I'm delighted to be here.

Yeah, I've seen plenty of people you know. I remember Nicolas Sarkozy's interview, the first one I watched in full, it was incredible. I love interviews, I love media, I'm very greedy for that. It was my job at one time.

CEO of Europe 1 when I was a bit younger.

A good interview, a good interviewer goes looking for things the interviewee hasn't said before. I was lucky to see Jean-Pierre Elkabbach, who could do a long interview with François Mitterrand, which was a crazy moment for my generation. And my friend Marc-Olivier Fogiel, a great interviewer for short formats, capable of going deep. That's what's great: finding things you haven't seen before. And you manage to do that often, so I'm happy to be here.

Oh really? Then I'm leaving right away. [Laughs]

I accepted because I like the way you do it, because it's a different audience and format. I like discovering new things. It's an opportunity to talk about Carrefour and also the role of a business leader, which is somewhat misunderstood in our country. So many reasons at once. I'm happy to be here.

Yes, it's the biggest machine I've had to manage. The figures are impressive. The daily reality is different, but what's very particular about Carrefour is the number of countries, the diversity of businesses, the number of stores, the time differences between continents, and the fact that you're at the heart of people's lives. Carrefour is at the heart of people's lives in all countries, at the heart of today's transformations.

Yes, we are in many countries.

We struggled to do something. I'll show you later. We found old Carrefour catalogs from 1996 from the time of the franc.

My father had a thousand lives. He started early, on the markets at 15-16, couldn't do great studies, so he worked. His whole life he undertook, multiplied adventures. He did political adventures, created events, was president of a football club, managed the shops we had. He had a thousand lives. He was an adventurer. He created the Ronde Hivernale de Chamonix, the car race on ice, where all of Paris came. That was the precursor of the Trophée Andros. He created it. He created a thousand things. He's an entrepreneur in the first sense of the word.

I had an incredible childhood because I had parents who were incredibly loving. The first privilege when you grow up is to be loved. And I was very loved, very protected, very accompanied. There was a lot of joy in our home. There was a lot of wonder. My parents were shopkeepers, we lived normally and well. And the great thing I owe to my parents, which I've kept a bit, is a great capacity for wonder when we went to a new place, on vacation, to a great restaurant, gastronomy. There was always a moment when we said we have beautiful lives. My parents built beautiful lives with the means they had, comfortable but not crazy. So I had a protected, happy, joyful childhood with friends and freedom.

Yes. My parents made me balanced. They saw early that I had a little motor of personal ambition and that it had to be allowed to develop.

Oh yeah, I don't know if it's ambition because when you're little, you don't know what that means. I had many dreams, I was very dreamy. I imagined myself succeeding in many fields, extraordinary things that I absolutely didn't achieve. I saw myself as number 10 of the French football team, I was a pitiful football player. I saw myself winning Wimbledon, I never exceeded my current level. I wanted to be a great novelist, I wrote average stuff. Everything had to be a bit extraordinary, the result was a bit disappointing. But I dreamed a lot. And now I'm CEO of Carrefour, it's still incredible.

Yes, we were together at ENA. He was the central defender of the ENA football team, which was probably one of the worst French football teams. I was a center forward, so I saw the ball very rarely. Laurent formed the central axis with my current Secretary General of Carrefour. A rough, heavy central axis. But he was not bad at all, and he's remained ultra competent, ultra nice, ultra modest.

Yes, of course, I like him a lot. I keep many friends from ENA. I even have a very dear friend who is my Secretary General, Laurent Vallalé, who is one of my best friends and works with me at Carrefour for 7 years. So a very faithful friend, very important to me. And many other friends. We cross paths, catch up, look at each other's paths. It's a form of camaraderie and friendship that forms and remains.

Yes, it's one of my true passions. The Resistance is an immense passion. I've read almost everything written about it. I watch all the films several times a year. I took my daughters to Resistance museums, to Resistance sites. I've met hundreds of Resistance people. It's an element that has greatly shaped me. I have personal and quite intimate reasons for that. It has followed, shaped, built, and disturbed me. I've always been fascinated by the reasons why, in 1941-42 when there wasn't much hope, people decided to take physical risks with their lives and families. There are all types: natural heroes, followers, some because of a romantic disappointment. You have everything in the Resistance: human destinies, trajectories, friendships, fraternities. It's something that has always fascinated me and shaped me a lot.

You need a lot of humility because real resistance is when you physically put yourself in danger. Jean Moulin, he gave everything. When you were a resistor in 1940, a few hundred or thousand people, and you risked your life. That's resisting. It's not the same world today. Not what we're asked today. And in a way, I often wondered with a bit of naivety what I would have done myself. That's the real question. A song by Sardou asks 'What would I have done?' Not easy to say. You can't know. It's easy to say I would have been a resistor. Of course, it fascinates me. But it's always easier than courage. We are more cowardly than courageous naturally. The moment you are truly courageous, risking everything, your family, yourself, physical risk, is the most intimate, complex personal decision. However, in the lives we have, when we lead companies, there are moments when you can resist. I was in companies that faced competitors from the other side of the world. When I was at Fnac, I tried to fight against Amazon and criticize the advantages they had. I didn't think I was heroic, but I thought it was useful for the company. Same today with Carrefour when you face global giants like Shein and Temu. I love competition, so I want to compete. So you resist by saying you can't give them that advantage. There are daily resistances, daily battles, but obviously not the same as the choices in 1940, which were ultimate choices.

We were talking about the most extreme period, but there were two or three. Basically, there was a form of physical courage that we no longer have. We need it less, we are less accustomed to it, and it's more foreign to us. At that time, I think because of the succession of wars, 1914, 1939-45, long military service, then the Algerian War, all those elements made you have moments in contact with physical courage, with physical hardship. And also more manual work, the rural world was more powerful. So there was a greater physical dimension, and that has obviously changed. We should be glad. We grew up in a world that is more uncertain but was a happier, probably easier world in some ways.

Yes, it's part of my work, even more today than yesterday. In recent years, it's accelerating. Sometimes I say, let's do a freeze frame. If in 2019 I had told you that in 2020 we'd have the biggest pandemic since the 1930s, then the return of war in Europe, then a Middle East crisis like never before, then a US president endangering the foundations of American rule of law, if we'd been told a US president could decide to go get another president in Venezuela, if we'd been told Greenland could become a topic, you wouldn't have believed it. You'd have said 'Go get a glass of water, I think you're a bit tired.' That's the reality of the world we're in. The return of imperialisms, the US, China, this very anxious and uncertain world is new. So that means for us, we're in about 40 countries, geopolitics is there. Supply chains can be disrupted overnight because of a conflict. Prices exploded during the war in Ukraine. If there's a conflict in the Middle East, it changes logistics and supply chains. In short, geopolitics is now daily.

After ENA, I was an inspector of finances for 4 years, apart from Laurent Nuñez who was a football defender at the time. When I left the inspection, I wanted to join a political project and work as a technical advisor to a minister. I was a Gaullist social, I liked Philippe Séguin a lot. François Fillon was the heir of that family. He ran a ministry that included employment, work, solidarity, pension reform, subjects that fascinated me. So I spent a little over a year and a half as a technical advisor in his team. It was a wonderful year and a half.

You'll see it at other moments in my journey. I often say to younger people who ask me now because I'm starting to age: meetings are key. I could have done politics. I had a desire for combat, I always have. I wanted to go at it. Someone might have said there's a constituency somewhere in Saint-Étienne or Haute-Savoie where I grew up. François Fillon might have said that, or someone else, and I would have gone. It didn't happen, and it could have really been a small thing. At that time, Bertrand Méheut, the president of Canal Plus, contacted me. I saw him once, twice, three times, four times, and the fourth time he said 'Listen, I need someone to come work with me. It's not easy, Canal is in trouble.' And Canal for me was enormous. I was born with television with Canal Plus. I loved everything about Canal. I said to myself, it's a wonderful adventure, everything was going badly at Canal at the time, but I found this wonderful manager. He spent time getting to know me, convincing me, and I said yes. So I could have done politics, you know, life is a series of choices. I made a choice and went into the business world, which I have never regretted.

Bertrand Méheut is a boss who was extraordinarily important to me. He trusted young people from all backgrounds. To give you an idea, three of us today have had great careers: Rodolphe Belmer, the boss of TF1, Rodolphe? Maxime Saada, the boss of Canal, were part of the same team, and me. After a year, he said 'You know sports well, you're not going to stay by my side all the time. Now show me if you can manage something. Take the sports direction of Canal.' I remember thinking, 'Oh no, he must not be happy because I want to stay by his side, it's much better, I see everything.' But it was the best professional gift I ever received. It was the first time I managed, it was the largest sports editorial team in Europe. I was crazy about sports. I had negotiations for rights, a billion budget, especially for Ligue 1 rights. There were sports channels. I always thought, why did I ever leave that job? I should have done it my whole life, it had everything I loved. It was a formidable gift. He wanted to see, and I do that a lot with young people who join me. He said 'Now let's see what you're worth. Let's see if you're a manager.' He had the kindness to think I could be a manager and put me in a position to be one.

There's no single secret. I've succeeded, lost, led well, and failed. You have to understand the balance of power with the person in front of you. You have to understand what each has to lose. If you get that wrong from the start, if you don't see the stakes, if you don't understand where the other is, if you only think about yourself, you lose. Then it's a question of timing. I know people who reason extraordinarily well but often lose negotiations because they don't have the momentum. There's a moment when it's won, and if you miss the momentum, you lose. I've missed some, but I learned that. You always have to think about the other person, put yourself in their place. For example, we had the football rights negotiations at that time, which was absolutely fantastic because Canal Plus's future was at stake. We signed Zidane as a consultant after the 2006 Berlin final. I did that. We had a lot of dialogue because Zidane is someone whose words are rare, each word important, and he had a lot of humility and shyness. He needed to trust us, to feel that we wouldn't trap him. So we met, talked a lot before he joined. I think he enjoyed that period, and he brought a lot because he had that incredible eye. I was very happy and proud when he joined our consultant team.

I was called and met Arnaud Lagardère, the owner of Europe 1, who offered me the presidency of Europe 1. I remember thinking, it's crazy because this is my radio. I was born to information with Europe 1, born to music with Europe 1, born to sports with Europe 1. And the Lagardère family is a great French industrial epic. Suddenly they say, now it's your turn. Sometimes I think back, there was a part of carefreeness in me that said, let's go. It was a gift when they entrusted me with Europe 1.

When I arrive at a company, I always ask myself a question. Often they call me when things are going well to go faster, but I'm often called when things are going badly to turn around. Europe 1 was the case, and Fnac after that too. The question I always ask is: what did these companies have when they were iconic? If they're still standing, it's because they were iconic at some point. What made them iconic? I remember asking about Europe 1: what was it in the 60s? I spent a lot of time looking at archives, talking to former employees. I concluded that Europe 1 is a radio of the times. When it works, it captures the spirit of the times. RTL has a very clear audience, but Europe 1 is a radio of the times. So when it captures the mood, it's wonderful; when it doesn't, it's in difficulty. I spent a lot of time thinking about which personalities would recreate that event-driven radio. Europe 1 needs to have events every day, to take risks, to create events. That's what we did. I had a great team that I brought in, and we changed part of the team.

Yes. I always think that when a company is not doing well, if you arrive alone and say 'I'll work with the people who are here,' it won't work. That doesn't mean the people aren't good. It just means you need people who believe in it. When you join a struggling company, the most common thing you hear is 'Oh, that won't work, we already tried, it didn't work, or that's not Europe 1, not Fnac, not Carrefour.' But you need people who say 'We'll do it, we'll make it, we want to.' I'll tell you an anecdote: the first person I recruited for Europe 1 was Marc-Olivier Fogiel, who was very central to our success. I decided to recruit him for the morning show. The marketing director had done studies before my arrival testing 20 potential hosts for the morning show. Marc-Olivier was ranked 20th, last. I took him, and it worked wonderfully. He holds the historical record for morning show audience. He played a fundamental role. Sometimes you have to trust your instinct and especially the desire people have. When you arrive at a struggling company, you need people who want it to work. If they say 'It's going to be very hard,' there are plenty of those. People who say 'Come on, we'll do it and work 18 hours a day for it' – that's gold. Marc-Olivier and all those who joined us – Nagui, Michel Drucker, Nicolas de Moran the next year – they wanted that adventure.

Sometimes I confused speed with haste at Europe 1. I wanted to go so fast, I wanted it to work so much. At times I lacked pedagogy. I remember arriving in June, and the radio season starts in September. I decided to change everything. People told me it's a habit medium, don't change anything. I didn't believe that, and I was right. But I didn't spend enough time explaining to the people I took off the air. There were wonderful people, especially on weekends, whose slots I removed. I made mistakes about some people, for example, someone who had a wonderful show and a wonderful life and career, and we took away his show. I didn't even tell him myself, and he resented me, rightly so. I confused speed with haste. I don't regret it because we had to go fast, but I regret the way, which was a bit of a youthful thing. And I had moments of weakness linked to my age. I'll tell an anecdote: when I arrived, I said we need to stop all cultural partnerships and choose a few we really believe in. For example, we supported Benjamin Biolay's album 'La Superbe.' I said go all in. We stopped many partnerships, so we upset half of French cinema. Then one day, Michel Drucker said 'You should come see Jean-Paul Belmondo's film 'Un homme et son chien.'' Belmondo is absolute for my generation. So I found myself in a cinema with Michel Drucker and Jean-Paul Belmondo. After the film – which was a tough film, not his best – Belmondo asked me 'Did you like it?' I was searching for an answer. He said 'Normally I've always been with RTL, but they don't want me or this film. I've always liked Europe 1 and the Lagardère family.' I looked at his big blue eyes and couldn't tell him we wouldn't support him. I said 'You'll be a Europe 1 film.' I went back to the station and said we'll be partners. The cinema team knew the film and said 'No, don't.' But I insisted. Of course it wasn't a success. For three years after, Nicolas Canteloup every Wednesday on air would say 'Now the cultural advice of the station president' and always pick the worst cultural advice. So I made plenty of mistakes. You have to have humor. But that's life too. We have failures, that's life. Otherwise we don't learn. I never believed in linear paths. Life is a series of moments.

It's about adventure, things you do very well, things you completely fail at, and it's not a formula, it's a series of that. So yes, you have to step back and say okay, I really got that wrong, add some nuance to it all. It's not all black and white, it's all gray.

Yeah, first of all I look at it all, it's a world that I love, that built me up a lot, that fascinates me. It's like the end of a love story when you leave a house. I remember arriving at Fnac in early January 2011 and turning on Europe 1 for the first time... I continue to follow the media and its transformation.

It's François Pinault. When I arrived at Fnac, after 15 days I went to see him. I prepared a lot of data, but he wasn't interested. He asked about my schedule. I showed him my packed schedule. He said 'This is not good at all. We didn't bring you in because Fnac is doing well. We brought you in because it's struggling and needs to be reinvented. When will you find time to think?' That advice to take time to reflect has stayed with me.

Europe 1 was great because from morning to night, all the people who had marked my life passed by. One day Alain Delon came. I extended my hand, he said 'Alain Delon.' Later, his assistant sent a huge bouquet of flowers with a personal note saying he had a nice time. I thought, these are legendary figures.

I also had the chance to meet sitting and former presidents. With Jacques Chirac, before the live broadcast he seemed tired, but once on air he became a beast, magical. That adrenaline of live TV. And with Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, he asked me 'So it's you?' implying I had come down from being an inspector of finance to run a media company.

Yes, everything can stop tomorrow. I'm not the owner of the company; there are shareholders, a board. So I always act as if I have eternity ahead of me, but I know it can end. It's like François Pinault always asked 'What will we do in the next 10 years?' That struck me.

Yes, it was the shareholders of that time: Bernard Arnault, Abilio Diniz, and the Moulin family. I accepted quite quickly. I had been at Fnac for 7-8 years, it was the right time. I was enthusiastic, thinking 'What an adventure!' Carrefour was the place where I went shopping as a child. I thought, 'Why me?' but then I said, 'Okay, it's me, let's forget why and focus on how.'

I had many moments where I thought I was very lucky. But when given a mission, I don't look at myself wondering if I'm capable; I just go for it. The first day at Carrefour, the adrenaline is so high you don't have time to ask yourself 'Am I the right person?' You just go.

Yes, it's a 64-year-old lady like the other companies I've run. It means she has experience and strength, but transformation is less natural. Over time, you become less agile, less curious, more arrogant. The two things that kill big companies are arrogance and bureaucracy. When I arrived at Carrefour, my obsession was to change that mindset immediately. I changed many teams to find people who believed in it.

I change the teams. Not because they're bad, but to find new personalities who believe in the vision. We set a vision and strategy, and then it's off. The worst is arrogance and not paying attention to weak signals. I learned that the most important things are the weak signals, the small things no one cares about. You must always be alert to new trends, innovations.