I was very curious as a child too. Now, where does this curiosity stem from? It comes from not knowing. When I don't know something, I ask about it like a child, with childlike excitement. What is this? Why? How? When? I'm never ashamed of this. I'm a general manager. I'm a board member. No such thing. If you don't know, you ask and learn.
If you had the right to give something free on the plane, what would you give all the passengers? Love. (laughter)
Your biggest failure in your career? Well, there are so many of them that I'll give a spoiler. I wrote about them in the book. I've had many failures. Because I became who I am today by learning lessons from them.
Is there a quality in yourself that you've always wanted to change but could never change? Playfulness. (laughter)
The last thing an airline would want is a delay.
Air pressure, Boeing?
Well, we look under every stone. Even if we know what's under the stone, we still look.
What are Pegasus's best and worst qualities compared to its competitors in the market? Pegasus could make its voice heard more. It could have spoken more. We could have done that.
You started distributing water on the plane. How is that going? Some say it didn't catch on. I see on social media, there are people saying 'they didn't give us water.' How did this bring you a change both in terms of cost and applicability and operations? What was the last thing you did for the first time?
Well, I'll give a spoiler. I have a draft I'm working on.
Has there ever been a decision you made at Pegasus that looked very rational from the outside but you made entirely based on intuition? If you were building Pegasus from scratch today, what would you do differently?
Hello everyone. Welcome to Boarding Info. Today we are at the international terminal of Ankara Esenboğa Airport, operated by TAV Airports, and I have a very important guest. Pegasus Airlines Chairman of the Board Mr. Mehmet Nane. Welcome, Mehmet Bey.
Hello. Good broadcasts. Muhammet Bey.
There are so many events around us. On one hand Airbus's new crisis, on the other political equations, geopolitical crises, wars around us. How are you? How are you feeling? On a scale of 10, where would you rate yourself in this period?
12. (laughter) These kinds of events always release adrenaline. When there's adrenaline, you always feel energetic, and since aviation is such a dynamic sector, it always releases adrenaline, so that's why we always feel dynamic.
Wonderful. We already see you with very high energy even in the worst situations, and I think that reflects in your success. You say you have things to tell me. I read the book you sent me signed on the first day. It won the best autobiography award. It was recently translated into English.
As far as I know, it will be available as an e-book shortly.
What prompted this? Why did you decide to write such a book? How? When, where? In what way?
Well, as a person, I love autobiographies and biographies. If you ask why, you pick up a book. Depending on which time period you read it in, whether it's a week, two weeks, a month, however many years that book covers — 20 years, 30 years, and mine covers 36 years — in that process, you learn about the experiences and life of the person whose story is being told. This gives you a huge accumulation of experience. This can't always be put into practice. Because human nature, due to ego, due to its structure and ego, some things can't be understood or learned without bumping your head against them first. But at least you can read about them, experience them vicariously. When you see this, you create value. Since autobiographies and biographies create this value, I wrote this book with the purpose of leaving a value for the future.
And you did a great job. Health to your hands. Truly, for people who read it, it's a book full of messages that can add to one's life. Experiences — in a sense, these kinds of books allow you to benefit from others' experiences for free. This actually allows us to draw certain conclusions from your truths and mistakes. Health to your hands once more. Now, autobiographies, as you know, are a bit of a person confronting themselves. On the other hand, what was the biggest confrontation with yourself while writing this book?
Well, let me put it this way. Due to the experiences life has brought me, and those experiences come from mistakes — lessons learned from mistakes. As a matter of principle, I never put today's work off to tomorrow. So when I looked back, I saw that all the lessons I extracted from my mistakes during that period were correct deductions. I'm glad I did it back then, didn't postpone it, didn't put it off to another time. I repeated this to myself, and the things I learned from there — for example, when I was young, there's a story in the book about a garden. The experience I gained there — how did it positively change the next 50 years of my life? The lesson I drew, what my father taught me, the words he said — how did they affect me? I appreciated this once more and said I'm glad I learned that lesson from that mistake back then, and in my subsequent life I followed and applied those lessons to avoid repeating that mistake.
Wonderful. Now, while writing this book, you shed light on and reflected on many of your own experiences, both good and bad. But did you ever find yourself self-censoring, thinking 'I shouldn't touch on this' or 'I'll skip this detail' during the writing process?
Of course, on personal matters or very individual points, I preferred to gloss over them a bit. For example, in the story I just mentioned, I don't mention names. I just talk about it as an event. Because the protagonist of that event, my father, has passed away. And on the other side, the gentleman who sold us the product has also passed away. That's why in such points, I focus on the event rather than the names. Because what matters here isn't the names. We shouldn't get caught up in the envelope; we should look at the content. The content is much more important. That's why I always tried to focus on the content.
Wonderful. We definitely have a recommendation for our viewers about the book. We definitely recommend reading Mr. Mehmet's memoirs and life, his 36 years of experience. Mehmet Bey, I'll show you a photo. This was June 3, 2016, the day you were introduced as CEO of Pegasus Airlines, and also the day we first met you personally. The day many people in the aviation industry first met you. What I remember from that day is this: I came to aviation having experienced many different sectors. You emphasized that you would learn aviation together with me. From that day to today, not only did you learn aviation, but you became one of the most important names in aviation both globally and nationally. Today, as Chairman of Pegasus Board, as Chairman of Ayata, you're one of the truly most important names in the industry. Today, people recognize you even in an airport terminal. You've reached the public level too. In all this process of learning aviation, I want to ask: what surprised you the most at Pegasus? During this learning and development process in aviation...
Aviation is a very deep sector. I was in different sectors. I started my career in banking. Then I continued with investment banking at a holding company. I moved to retail. Aviation is a very deep sector and truly a 24/7 lived sector. There are 3 shifts, so you're flying 24 hours. Maintenance runs in 3 shifts. An airport, an airline operates 24/7. This creates an incredibly dynamic environment. The adrenaline I mentioned earlier comes from here. You're always touching customers. For example, as Pegasus, this year we'll carry over 40 million passengers. You're touching 40 million people, and these 40 million people can have different desires, expectations, and demands from you. That's why it's a dynamic sector. It's a more dynamic sector than many known sectors, a 24/7 lived sector, and a global sector.
Yes. I'll take you on a journey back in time. If I asked you to give two pieces of advice to the Mehmet Nane who was taking his first step into aviation with Pegasus that day, what would you say to do and not do?
Keep doing what you've been doing. And to reinforce that, learn to take lessons from your mistakes.
You frequently emphasize in the book that you've learned from your mistakes. Now, banking, retail, technology on one hand, now aviation — these are very independent and in a sense unrelated sectors. During these transitions between sectors, I'm sure you had some question marks and hesitations. Did you ever think 'Am I switching to the wrong sector?' or question whether you were on the right path during these transitions between such different sectors?
I didn't. Let me tell you why. The sectors may look different in terms of subject matter. But who is the end consumer? They say B2C — both in retail and aviation, these are sectors selling products and services to the end user. So when you look at it as sectors dealing with the end consumer, they're fundamentally similar. We were selling electronics at Teknosa, selling food and other items at Carrefour. There were 54,000 SKUs. Here too, we're selling seats, selling services. Actually, fundamentally the same thing. When we look at it, we're at a point where services are sold to the end consumer. The others were too. From that perspective, the sectors are actually very similar to each other. We're not doing manufacturing here. We're producing services.
So among the sectors we've mentioned, which one did you like the most? Surely one of them holds a special place in your heart.
Yes. Well, aviation is truly very different and dynamic, and that's why aviation will always have a special place in my life. But retail is also important. Why is retail important? I write about this in the book too. Retail is my grandfather's and father's profession, my uncle's profession. My grandfather was registered with the Mersin Chamber of Commerce, one of the first merchants in 1906. My father and uncles — four brothers — all had shops. From that perspective, retail is in my blood. I can say I was born in a shop. I remember being 3 years old. I can say I was born in a shop. But the dynamism of aviation, the energy in aviation, the adrenaline in aviation — I haven't seen it in any other sector so far.
How does experiencing these different sectors reflect in the strategic decisions you make at Pegasus today? Can you give a concrete example in this regard?
I can tell you very clearly. That's why I jumped in before you finished your question. Providing effective service to the end consumer is very important. For this, any sector serving the end consumer — not just aviation or retail — if it doesn't place the consumer at the center, doesn't address consumer needs at the center, it can't help them. It can't serve them. It can't build a successful relationship with them. This is very, very critical. Of course, this doesn't mean that with our 40 million guests, or at different scales even more guests — that we'll make every single customer happy. There's no such thing. The cost of that would be very, very high. It could happen, but it would be extremely expensive. What matters is being able to provide the standard service we've committed to for every customer. This is very, very critical. What are we committing to? What are we offering? This is very critical. If we can do this, if we can ensure this equity, then no matter what sector we're in, it means we're making the end consumer happy. Of course, we'll make mistakes. Of course, we may have unintentionally upset a guest. This is perfectly normal. What matters is, one, knowing how to apologize. Two, not making the same mistake again — taking the necessary precautions. This is very, very critical. This is one of the key themes in my book too. People who do business make mistakes. What matters, and aviation's just culture brings this, is taking the necessary preventive measures to not repeat the same mistake.
You've changed many sectors. As we've discussed, how do you see the biggest turning point in your career? Which event?
When I turned 50, leaving Carrefoursa. Because when I left, I didn't have a company yet. I hadn't found a job either. I was meeting with headhunters. There were 10 projects that headhunters proposed to me during that period, and Pegasus was one of them. Pegasus happening was also helped by the advantage of having worked with Ali Bey for 5.5 years at the holding. The guidance of my chairman at the time also influenced this, and I can now see he made the right direction. I thanked him for this just last week. We ran into each other at a meeting, and I thanked him in front of about 150 people. So that was the turning point. When I turned 50, I could have worked until 60 and retired from there — hopefully I'm turning 60 soon. Or, you know, stepping outside your comfort zone, finding a challenge or a new beginning. Age 50 was critical for me, and I made this decision. I'm glad I did because it truly opened a different dimension in my life, and I'm very satisfied with this different dimension.
You say people who don't make mistakes don't work. You said it here too. You always emphasize this in your interviews. What was your biggest mistake to date?
I've made so many mistakes that I write about this in the book. For example, one of my biggest mistakes, which affected my life, was staying back a grade in prep school at age 11.
Your first year of high school, you stayed back.
Yes, staying back in prep school. This developed the principle of 'learn the lesson in class, review at home,' and from then on, I passed every year with honors. At 11 years old, I lost a very serious year, but then I thought about what I could gain from that year. I used the gains from that as added value in my subsequent life.
What was your biggest career mistake, do you think?
You make so many mistakes in your career. I started working life in 1988. I hadn't finished university yet. I had moved from second to third year, and as an intern where I started, because I knew English, they gave me a project. When I decided to leave after the internship, they asked 'Where are you going?' Because no one in the department knew English, and if I left, the project would be stuck. So I stayed. After staying, I graduated university in 1990, took the exam. At that time, there were management trainee programs in banking. I was working at Emlak Bankası. It was the 6th period management trainee. I didn't look at a different sector. One of my biggest 'I wish' moments in life from that period is that I didn't try my own business. I didn't do my own entrepreneurship. When I talk to young people, when I go to universities, or when they ask me for advice, I always say this: if you have the opportunity and chance, and especially if you have an idea that will create difference and value, try your own business. You can always return to professional life, but once we get used to the comfort that professionalism brings — getting used to comfort is the easiest thing in life. The hardest thing is taking a step back from the standard you've gotten used to. Taking a step back from that standard is difficult for anyone. I don't wish it either. One of my biggest prayers is that God doesn't put anyone back from where they've reached. People have their own prayers. One of mine is that God doesn't put me and my family back from where we've reached. That's very, very difficult. So after getting used to a certain standard, because we can't risk losing these by becoming entrepreneurs, our entrepreneurial side dies out.
We've talked about mistakes. Let's talk about success a bit. After experiencing so many different sectors, did your definition of success change during this time? Did a transformation occur where you say 'I used to look at success differently, now I look at it differently'?
Well, let me tell you how I define success now. Success is creating value by creating difference. Creating value through being different. I first asked myself this question when I got the shop key for the first time at age 13. Later, I developed this when I became a manager in retail. Now I'm at the highest point of it. Why did this develop? You open the shop at 7 AM. Others sell the same products you sell. Why should the customer buy from you? I always asked myself this question. When I was a retailer, I always asked my store managers, sales managers, and procurement managers to ask this question too. When you find the answer to this question, you've already captured success. Since I've been asking this question since I was 13 — about 47 years now — I've made it an inseparable part of my life's cycle. And what did this bring me? It brought me to the concept of sustainable value creation. Doing something once and being successful isn't enough anymore. After doing something once, if you can make it sustainable and permanent, and continue creating value — that's where true success comes from. I define success as sustainable value creation. Whatever you do, if you're doing it sustainably and creating value each time — even if you're selling simit, people will line up. Even if you're selling köfte, people will line up. Whatever you do, people will line up to get your service, to buy your product. Because you're showing them value.
And the important thing where you've shown value and placed sustainability at the center is Pegasus. Let's talk about some current topics. On April 1, 2020, we did an interview with you in your office. It had been 15 days since the pandemic started. You were the CEO of an airline with all 82 planes grounded. While no one could find answers about what Pegasus would do, you — thank you for choosing us — we did an informative broadcast for the public from your office. We even moved the chairs together to set up the atmosphere, if you recall. Now today, we have a similar situation. We're in a period where we're experiencing a very important crisis with Airbus, and at some point, people want to get information. Pegasus serves 40 million passengers, you say. There are people with tickets. People traveling tomorrow. People who will travel soon. There's limited information in the media. You made a general statement about this A320 crisis too. You said 'We're following events, making necessary interventions on the aircraft.' Let's hear about this crisis from you. How was Pegasus affected by this crisis? How many of your aircraft were affected? Software update, hardware changes — what are the situations? You'll be speaking to us first in Turkey on this. It's very valuable for us. Thank you once again.
I don't want to steal the role of our operations general manager here, but we learned about this on Friday. The incident was resolved within 24 hours — we closed it out. 85 of our aircraft were affected. When a new version is loaded onto an aircraft — an upgrade, so to speak — like a new version on our mobile phones. A new version is being installed. This new version, because there was an excessive explosion from the sun beyond expectations at that time, and consequently there was radiation emission above normal levels, it corrupted this software, as Airbus stated. When it corrupted the software, the aircraft, while flying normally in cruise — on autopilot — suddenly tilted its nose downward and tended to go down. When you disengage the autopilot and correct it, it returns to normal level, but that sudden uncontrolled movement happened once. It happened on a JetBlue flight in America, on a plane coming from Cancún. It happened once. Airbus takes this seriously. They're working on finding a solution. They're talking with relevant authorities like the FAA, EASA. And after that, they decided to revert to the previous software version to review the new software. There are 6,000 aircraft affected by this. We also have other Airbus aircraft from the same family, but those are CEO — Classic Engine Option. Since these are NEO aircraft, the CEO aircraft weren't affected. 85 NEO aircraft. We started loading on Friday evening around 9 PM to revert this, and by the next evening, we had completed it. Under the leadership of our general manager, a crisis desk was immediately established. All relevant team members were present at this crisis desk. Twice a year, we even drill this crisis desk on its own to see how it functions. One drill is internal, closed-circuit. In another, at a selected airport, the relevant civil administrators, airport authorities, and security forces all participate in the drill. What does this give you? Being prepared for any crisis moment and knowing what to do. The crisis desk was immediately established. We have an operations center, what we call OCC. We call it IOCC — integrated, meaning it includes ground services, technical, and dispatchers. They gathered there, discussed what needed to be done, assigned tasks, and everyone dispersed. As operations were carried out, as loading was completed, the center was updated. The center received news. When the work was finished the next evening, command went out from the center, and the temporarily established crisis desk was dissolved. Everyone returned to their posts. Meanwhile, in aviation, generally if you have above a certain number of aircraft, you do your own technical maintenance. That's why 3-shift work is done. Since we work in 3 shifts technically, our teams quickly — some online, some offline with manual loading using a USB device and an adapter — finished all 85 aircraft by the next day. From this perspective, Pegasus is certainly among the first companies to complete this operation so quickly on this many aircraft.
What was the total cost of this? Have you calculated a financial figure for it?
The team is working on that. Why do I say the team is working on it? One, there were delays on existing aircraft. There were departure delays. Two, we had to cancel a certain number of flights. Because an aircraft comes in, the loading is done. The incoming aircraft might go to another flight half an hour later. But since it couldn't go during this loading period, or went late, all subsequent flights also carry that delay. We call this 'reactionary.' At the airport, it's called a reactionary delay. A delay caused by one reason cascading to another aircraft — since on an average day we fly each aircraft about 6 times — this becomes a reactionary event. Because it's reactionary, there were a certain number, not many but above that number, of potential flight cancellations, and many of our aircraft had late departures due to this loading. Our team is calculating these.
My questions included this. Since we're on the subject, let me change the order. These delays and setbacks come back to airline companies as major cost items. You see flight cancellations happening. You need to provide meals to passengers. Sometimes you need to provide hotels, etc. What share does this have within your overall budget? Because sometimes airline companies show this in their budgets, sometimes under different categories. Pegasus, I observe as a passenger, has significantly fewer delays and flight cancellations compared to before. But where exactly does this type of delay and cancellation sit in the pie for you?
Let me take a step back and explain this delay and setback situation. Aviation has very different stakeholders. Airlines, airports, passengers are all part of these stakeholders. In the aviation ecosystem, the last institution that would want a delay is the airline. Why? Because, as I said about reactionary delays, one aircraft being delayed for any reason causes all of that aircraft's flights that day to be delayed. So I'm trying to explain this to our guests as best as I can. Let me give this message clearly through you too. The last thing an airline would want is a delay. You mentioned improvement earlier. Why did this improvement happen? Sabiha Gökçen is our main base. The activation of the second runway there, especially during peak hours and peak periods, eliminated taxiing in single-runway operations. I personally remember being on a plane — I had a record of 1 hour and 20 minutes. We were taxiing in position 14. 14 aircraft waiting to take off. Meanwhile, planes are landing. A plane lands, a plane takes off. A plane lands, a plane takes off. Actually minimum 28. You can land 28 consecutively, take off 28 consecutively. That's why the last thing an airline would want is a delay. Why do delays happen? Delays, when looked at by percentage, are 5% airline-caused. Most airline-caused reasons are technical. The other 95% are either weather-caused, tower-caused, or caused by reasons outside our control. For example, runway closure, FOD — foreign object debris, or bird dispersal activities. 5% from airlines. Of that, 99.9% are due to technical reasons. Technical reasons are mostly beyond our control, though with today's technology, preventing technical issues is much more achievable than 10, 5, or even 2 years ago. With the advancement of AI and preventive technologies entering our lives, we're using preventive methods to determine what types of failures might occur at what times, and we take precautions to bring that 5% down further. So I want to emphasize again. The last thing an airline would want is a delay.
When an aircraft is on the ground, it loses money. When it's in the air, it makes money. You're a very good merchant, so I imagine you're already focused on this. Speaking of Sabiha Gökçen, the topic opens up again. You can't get slots anymore. The new runway opened, but as far as I know, there are significant congestion issues in that area. But Pegasus has new orders. It wants to grow. It has different plans. How do you plan to unlock this slot crisis at Sabiha Gökçen? Because in the past you had an extra airline in Kazakhstan, Air Manas, which I understand closed later for different reasons. Now you have a co-operation agreement with Iberia in Spain. Would you grow by expanding to a different location? Because does Sabiha Gökçen's future projection parallel your growth?
Actually, I'm not sure about that. Let me explain. The main issue at Sabiha Gökçen is terminal capacity. Terminal capacity is about 40 million. Last year, 42 million flights were operated at Sabiha Gökçen. That's why a new terminal is expected. Its location is determined, the project is ready, everything is set. Once this project is implemented in the shortest time, Sabiha Gökçen's potential would easily go from the current 40 million to 90 million. Yes, there are aircraft, orders. Our country's tourism potential comes into play here. For example, our main base right now is Istanbul, Sabiha Gökçen. But Antalya Airport has become another base. We have 23 aircraft there. We're running a 23-aircraft operation. Especially with the tourism season extending, and this year the weather — the effect of global warming — the summer season that used to end with schools opening now extends to October, November. November was quite good in terms of tourism too. With seasons extending, the increasing demand for tourist destinations has led us to position more aircraft there and evaluate our fleet more effectively. And you know better than I do, having traveled so much — what do airlines do? Depending on which hemisphere they're in, they bring aircraft to peak seasons and do major maintenance in other seasons. Similarly, we're planning our aircraft maintenance for the 5-month period from December to April, during the off-peak, and conducting maintenance accordingly.
Speaking of maintenance, I assume you can guess what I'll ask. The hangars — a $150 million mega project. Two hangars, the first is planned to open in January. Can you share a bit about the investment there? Pegasus has truly gone deep into the technical side.
Two large hangars are being built, and a paint hangar as well, from what I understand. What does Pegasus expect at this point with the hangar project?
We are actually late on this, Muhammet Bey. Why are we late? An airport of our size needs its own hangar.
Because we have two types of maintenance. We have daily maintenance needs. These daily checks go beyond daily faults — what we call a 'check' after every flight.
Like checking the oil and water of the plane.
Like checking the oil and water of a car.
Exactly. Of course, the plane's oil and water are checked too, but beyond that there's a daily card that takes about 2 hours. The procedures on that card are carried out. For this you need an enclosed area. You need an enclosed area for painting as well. Additionally, at certain intervals, there are what we call 'checks' — procedures that need to be done after a certain number of flight hours or yearly flight hours. These are procedures that take 15 days to a month. We do all of them on time. Until now, we've been doing these domestically and abroad. The lack of domestic capacity due to high demand made it necessary for us to build our own hangar. Turkey is very well positioned in technical maintenance, in our region and even globally. I can say this with confidence.
The region is truly the most important—
We are the MRO center of the region. That's why there's very serious demand from abroad for Turkey. That's why, by building our own hangar, instead of sending planes abroad and paying foreign currency, we said let the value stay in our country. Let us keep the value and create value in our country. Because these two hangars will provide at least 1,000 additional jobs, and the money we pay abroad will stay in Turkey as added value, paid in Turkish lira. Less foreign currency will leave the country. That's what we tried to do. One day we woke up to the news that Pegasus Airlines is flying to America. Now, what is this America business? We touched on it briefly. Through Iberia, I believe, via a codeshare agreement. But I checked on my way here, and I can already buy a ticket to São Paulo on Pegasus's website. And to New York as well, from what I understand. Could you tell us about this?
This is commonly done in aviation. Our planes are single-aisle aircraft, and given their fuel capacity, they can fly within a 6-hour radius.
So looking north, south, east, west—
We can go as far as Helsinki and Oslo.
Bishkek, Almaty. Your company—correction, not in Kazakhstan, in Kyrgyzstan.
Right, I stand corrected.
We fly to Bishkek and Almaty. To the south, we go to Sharm El Sheikh and Hurghada. Looking up north, St. Petersburg, Helsinki. To the west, we can reach as far as Edinburgh.
Within this radius, passengers who want to go further inevitably need connections. Previously we had an agreement with KLM/Air France. We were doing this with KLM. Now an opportunity arose with Iberia. The advantage Iberia brings is that they're very strong in Latin American countries. We carry passengers from Turkey to Spain, and Iberia does the connecting. Beyond that, Iberia carries them on their own aircraft. Through this, we tried to offer our passengers a new option. Because there's significant traffic here too. As you know, Turks are entrepreneurial, we're commercially minded, we do business everywhere in the world. Because there's such demand, such maintenance need, and the demand exists, and capacity is limited, we made this agreement to create some capacity. We hope it will benefit our passengers and that we can transport them at affordable prices to their desired destinations in North or South America.
But up until now you've always said no to this. Since we're on the topic, with extra long range—because you see America going very well—with extra long range, Istanbul-New York can just about be covered, or is about to be covered. Will there never be such a plan? Will it always continue through codeshare, or could the position change?
In low-cost model, there are no transatlantic flights. A Norwegian airline tried this and couldn't make it work. Why? Because in low-cost, seat pitch is standardized at 29 inches. All low-cost carriers have 29 inches — it's different, you can't set seat pitch at will.
When you look at this 29-inch seat and think about a large aircraft flying 8 or 10 hours, it's very cramped and exhausting. That's why it hasn't been tried before. Now extra long range aircraft are coming out that can fly up to 8 hours. We'll see. If that proves successful, for now we say no, but you should never say never in life. We'll see what conditions bring. But based on current data, we have no such intention. So I'm saying no. But tomorrow the data may change. If these extra long range planes offer a more comfortable environment, if passengers are satisfied, if they'd prefer flying long distances in this cramped environment at lower prices — everything is determined by the passenger's decision. Ultimately, the passenger guides us. At some point, we provide the service, and whether they accept and take it comes back to us as an answer. We evaluate that answer positively or negatively.
I think the statement that 'this only happens in low-cost' isn't really valid for Pegasus, because in low-cost, you also don't do connecting flights or interline flights. You're changing that too. Whatever the demand requires, you do it. So you don't seem that closed off. I think this is the first time I'm getting a green light from you on this.
Let me put it this way. In principle, our culture at Pegasus is that we never say a definitive no.
If such a question comes up, if such demand arises, we look at whether there's logic behind it. We call this the 'turning every stone' theory. We look under every stone. Even if we know what's under it, we look again, because maybe something has changed. So we never say no to anything. We will always look again. As long as our customer brings demand in this direction, if it's logical, we'll look into it and offer it as a service.
What are Pegasus's best and worst features compared to competitors in the market? What's the best, and where are you most behind?
The best is making air travel accessible to the people through our service. Let me give you a personal example. In 1985, I came to Istanbul for university. I'm from Mersin. It was 16 hours during holidays, 18 hours by bus. At that time, flying was truly a luxury — the bus ticket was one-tenth of a flight ticket. As a student, it was impossible. One of the best things Pegasus has done is bring air travel to people's doorstep. That's a very critical achievement. What could we do better? The service and congestion at Sabiha Gökçen. Unfortunately, the delay in building the new terminal and its not yet being operational — as someone who uses it, I see it clearly. Congestion at Sabiha Gökçen is a problem, but Pegasus has no fault here. Pegasus could have been louder, could have spoken up more. We did the lobbying we needed to do, but unfortunately COVID came along, then other events delayed the tender and construction of the new terminal. But we have serious hope that progress will be made next year.
You started distributing water on planes. That was an interesting development that particularly affected you as a low-cost carrier. How is that going? There are people saying it didn't catch on. On social media I see people saying they weren't given water. What kind of change did this bring operationally and financially?
Every business model has its own format. In low-cost, you pay for the seat and other things are extras. But here, there was a request from the ministry. Responding to such a call is our duty. Whether we agree or not, whether we like it or not, a request has been made and we must comply. While doing this, we didn't do it just for the sake of doing it — we genuinely serve it. If our passenger wants water, one glass or two glasses, we provide it. But in the low-cost principle, such things — wherever you go in the world — I'm talking about low-cost, not legacy carriers — are subject to a fee. Turkey made a difference here. Our neck is thinner than a hair — meaning we comply. We implement this on domestic flights. Whatever the passenger wants, we do. Two glasses if they ask for two, one glass if one.
Can you give us a figure?
Financially, let me put it roughly — about 2 million euros.
2 million euros is a very serious amount.
Did the ministry give you any advance notice? Was there a prior alert in routine meetings? Or did you also learn from the press?
No. We learned through an official letter sent to us.
So there was no prior consultation?
Let's talk about Ankara Esenboğa. We're at the Esenboğa terminal now. We know Pegasus has significant work here. The airport also has its own important developments. You travel here frequently. How do you see Pegasus's future in Ankara?
Due to demand from Ankara, we're increasing our domestic and international flights from here. This is entirely based on passenger demand, as I mentioned earlier. Of course, if passengers only look at Friday-Sunday patterns, it doesn't work. We look at 365 days. We don't just look at summer months or only holidays and official leave days — both public and religious holidays. When we look at 365 days and believe there will be demand and guaranteed occupancy, if there's a slot available on that route and we can get civil aviation permission, we open the flight. That's why the potential in Ankara keeps growing. We fly to 23 different destinations from Ankara.
We'll continue increasing these. New routes will come from Ankara.
As long as there's demand, we're here.
Now, our program has a special feature. In the final segment, we ask our guests some personal questions about their travel habits, preferences, firsts and favorites. If you'll allow us, we'd like to ask you a few questions.
Do you remember your first flight?
When was it? Where did you go?
Yes. In 1974, my father came to buy goods — if I'm not mistaken, I came with my father. That was also my first time in Istanbul. 1974.
Do you remember the aircraft type?
