And that's where, since this year, we launched a specialization in the space economy, and in a few years we'll create a master's specialized in space with an engineering school. So you can see why it's important to listen carefully to what the world of tomorrow will become, and to anticipate and especially prepare our students to meet the needs of today's and tomorrow's market.
You're right to be pursuing a program at ESCP because you're indeed opening horizons, as LĂ©on said, especially in space and in the horizons of industry. Pierre, wonderful, thank you for this bounce back.
A leader is a paranoid enthusiast who dreams. We're paranoid because we watch everything, everything moves, technologies and so on. But those are tremendous opportunities for development and industrial growth. Let me explain. Today our young people are very afraid of the climate — it's heating up, water will run out, we'll burn up. It's very anxiety-inducing. But it's the Chinese ideogram: crisis equals danger opportunity. We all see the dangers and it's very scary.
You can address Pierre directly to the students.
Well, I think these great dangers — the planet, climate, water, recycling, military remilitarization, there are many threats — health, Covid, sustainable cities, all of that, those are tremendous innovation and research challenges to recreate industry in France with the associated services, with artificial intelligence, with data. All these great challenges are opportunities for innovation and research. I think we fell very low in French industry. We went from 20% of GDP to 10%. We lost 2.2 million industrial jobs in 40 years and created 1.5 million civil servants. There was a transfer from productive wealth creators to unproductive ones.
In fact, I think it's like everything, and you need to get back to 15% of GDP — that would be 1 million. I did the calculations in my book. There are a million industrial jobs to recreate, which would induce at least a million service and associated jobs. We could reach full employment by creating these five major sectors. First, everything related to planet, environment, water, recycling materials. At Radiall, I have 30 projects to clean up my products, to replace plastics, chrome and everything that pollutes. We don't have all the solutions today. Then there's the military block — there's a military bloc to the East that remains very strong. Health — we have Sanofi, Institut Pasteur, we could make a great showing. We have plenty of engineers. Then there's AI, data, quantum. I make connectors for quantum. Today in France there are fantastic startups. And then there's the whole Smart City block — sustainable cities, better living, better working, better housing. All of that induces tremendous innovations, research, startups, SMEs, mid-caps that could develop. And I think these five major sectors should be communicated. That's where we have an important role. The ESCP school is formidable — bravo, because you're training leaders. We'll need engineers, researchers, salespeople, marketers, communicators, managers, HR managers, people who can manage cash to run companies that could become world leaders again in all these sectors.
And you know what, Pierre? There are also partnerships — Léon has many double diplomas with engineering schools, and also with the Best Craftsmen of France, right Léon?
Yes, absolutely. We have the chance of having double degrees with our best engineering schools in France — CentraleSupélec, Mines Paris-PSL, ENSA, and soon with the Best Craftsmen of France, because French artisanal excellence is also that. It's in individual entrepreneurship, the hundreds of trades of France — these beautiful trades need to be sustained. Our students will also work and go into the field for what we call an in-situ case study. ESCP was a pioneer of case studies. Now we're returning to the foundation of what we were in terms of case studies — three things they'll do: immerse themselves in a company, especially among the best in France; intervene in these companies and also in the companies of the Île-de-France region thanks to Stéphane Fratacci and his team; and have an impact — solve a problem and contribute to solving it.
That gives meaning. Involvement is fundamental. In Switzerland, 70% of 17-year-olds are in apprenticeships. Benjamin Franklin said: 'I tell you, I forget. I teach you, you might remember. I involve you, you learn.' I dream that in the civil service, our senior officials spend two years in a company, in a SME, putting in €10,000 or €20,000 and making their money grow alongside the business owner, to see real life. There are two crucial things you don't learn in engineering schools or anywhere: cash management and people management. Companies die from lack of cash. If you know how to manage your cash — which we can't do in France regarding the business world — and if you don't know how to support people, it's the same.
Exactly. And doing a two-year stint in a small SME with 10, 20, or 50 people, managing cash every end of month and managing people, because we focus on leadership — I think this training would be wonderful for running a country like France. I'd like to add something about PMEs: our students should also be interested in them. There's this fascination with big consulting groups or starting your own company, but going into SMEs, discovering for our graduates, it's a fascinating learning experience. You have proximity, you understand the simple mechanisms of investment, action, and cash. It's a formidable pool of opportunities for graduates of our schools. We have a permanent challenge in France with business transmission, and our young people should see that transforming a company by taking it over, inspired by the leader's vision, is just as valuable as creating one.
When I was 30, before joining Radiall, I took over a company called Fontaine Électronique that was in bankruptcy. I knew nothing. I was a telecom engineer, I'd done a stint at a big group, and they threw me in. I loved it. I learned in three years everything I needed — the works council, labor inspection, the factory floor, margins, cash, the banker who wasn't happy. It was horrible. I had terrible stress for three years. It was worse than school exams. I kept thinking the shareholders would fire me every Monday. So you hang on, you hang on, you learn everything. Living in a SME or mid-cap, you learn everything. When I was at Dassault, an immense group I admire, I learned lots of things about international, but everything is easy — there's an HR director, a CFO, three project managers. Even at Radiall we're like a SME. When you have 10, 20, 50 people, you have to see everything, be in permanent paranoid enthusiasm. It's brilliant training.
Time flies. We're in a passionate debate, as I told you with our guests, especially our guest of honor, the godfather of this first episode, Pierre Gattaz. I'd like Pierre and Léon to speak very quickly about the leader's speech and the energy they instill. Today, there's a certain cacophony — we can't hear voices anymore. So the leader's voice, how do we carry it? Because each leader is unique.
Each leader is singular. I love acronyms. The term 'leader' was introduced in French companies in the 1960s. Before, we spoke of 'chef' — chef d'entreprise. In English it's chief executive officer. A leader has multiple facets. He's first a Chief Explorer Officer — he must explore, have a vision, create a strategy, innovate. Second, he must be a Chief Excellence Officer — deliver excellence, and we have a singularity: French excellence. Third and most important, as we discussed, Chief Energy Officer — how to create good energy, and how to capture good energy. We shouldn't forget that a leader like Pierre is a corporate athlete — performance must last at least 40 years, both sprint and endurance.
Yes, the alpinist. In reaction to what Léon said, you need clarity to be heard. It depends on whether you want to last with your company or sell it after three years. I'm not contesting startups — sometimes they do something wonderful for three or five years, that's fine. When you're in it for the long haul, as I am, I want this industrial work to continue with my teams. I think you need to be understood. When I talk to my base workers, they need to understand. If I give a 45-minute speech with very complicated words — I won't name any political leaders who are too sophisticated. When I listen to Trump, whether you like him or not, you understand him even in English. It's simple. You need to adapt to people. Don't bore them for 45 minutes. When I discuss with workers in Mexico — I have 1,000 people there, 800 Mexican workers — they need to understand two or three simple ideas. Not 50 — three very simple ideas. Go, that's what we need to do. I'm counting on you. Take people's brains, hearts, and guts. In France, we often speak brain to brain, and it either works or it doesn't. You also need to speak to the heart — with a bit of emotion and empathy — and to the guts. The guts are anger. Transforming a simmering anger into energy. I really believe in that.
The leader's energy. I come back to your origins. And LĂ©on, a positive energy to onboard, to transmit good vibes. We can meditate, take time to meditate on a decision. Your personal view and as a business leader?
Yes. Pierre said it — a leader faces many crises and much urgency. Of course. And there, it's often said it's urgent to wait. In fact, we need to reflect and capture that energy, whether negative or positive, when we bring it out. We must always raise the horizon line, as Michel Barnier told me, to see ahead. Pierre spoke of crisis — there's always danger and opportunity, but we must always see the opportunity. I believe good energy is being able to create that. How do we do it? Two things: meditation and mindfulness. Because if you have anxiety, you can't see anything anymore, and you transmit it.
I was about to say that a mindfulness module would open at ESCP. Perhaps — that's a question I'd ask Jean-Marc. Yes, I think we need to be — mindfulness is a good term — ready to truly face what will happen, reflect on it all. In economics, we distinguish between uncertainty and risk. There's a moment when you're in uncertainty, and at that point the leader is the one who dives in even when uncertain. Earlier Léon was saying to me — it's innovation and not invention, because one thing I care deeply about is distinguishing between invention, which is a clearly identified technological progress. Yes. Clearly identified — we're fascinated. The engineers speak with emotion, saying you'll see, it'll be extraordinary. And then we realize nobody is ready to buy the product. Adoption makes the difference. Innovation can sometimes be very simple. We put forward innovation like plumbing — on a technological level, it's 17th-century physics. But installing bathrooms everywhere in the world, ensuring everyone has a shower in their apartment or hotel room — that's an innovation because we used a very simple technology to meet the population's needs. The awareness is to try to anticipate what people will need and not be fascinated by engineers, salespeople, technology. Just because it's complicated doesn't mean it's useful. Concorde. Yes, it's very complicated.
No, regarding what Jean-Marc said about uncertainty — it's permanent learning for the leader, the boss, the CEO. When crisis arrives, you must be ready. Being ready means being alert but comfortable with embracing this uncertainty. In both public and private sectors, you may face crises, and in a way, the same aptitudes are needed. This is cultivated through the paranoia we discussed. I wanted to bounce on two words mentioned earlier. First, vision — it's not simply the horizon line, which is an imaginary line that moves away as you approach. It's having a course you hold. You've deciphered the sea state, the currents, the weather, but you know where you want to go and you share it. The second notion that runs through values too. In public as in private, you have values, and in companies it's important to have them. From there, you can communicate to your crew, because you don't go alone holding the helm — you need a crew. Solo sailing is magnificent, these are elite athletes. But the sailor is often in a crew and needs his crew.
You noticed that when Pierre highlighted leaders, they were two civil servants, two military men. It was Napoléon and de Gaulle. And so the real strength of ESCP is that — they are very, very strong.
We're partners. The military is a model of leadership.
