Ledger CXO首席体验官 Ian Rogers访谈 ledger冷钱包代码是开源的吗？

Yeah, no, of course. Thank you for coming. That was fun, it was a really good group of people.

Sure, with pleasure. You can call me Ian. My name is Ian Rogers. I spent 20 years doing digital music products like Winamp, Yahoo, Beats, and Apple. Then I worked with LVMH, the big luxury conglomerate, and I moved to Paris. Ledger is a Paris-based company, and when I moved to Paris to work with LVMH, I met Pascal Gauthier, who was the CEO of Ledger, and learned about Ledger. Pascal's vision for Chief Experience Officer was that the experience in crypto is too difficult for a mainstream user. For a geek like me, we can find our way around crypto — we don't mind a little bit of risk, maybe a difficult user experience. But the average person wants something much easier to use. If you think about buying an iPhone from Apple, you're not just buying a piece of hardware — you're buying into an ecosystem. You're buying blue bubbles instead of green bubbles. You're buying an experience. The idea was that with Ledger, we need to create an end-to-end experience: from 'I just bought a Ledger, I just bought my first crypto' to 'I'm now paying with crypto, earning yield by staking, sending crypto to a friend, working with DeFi, or buying a digital collectible.' Everything needs to be a simple, end-to-end experience. We know that in crypto we're a long way from it being easy. It's not simple or easy, and we need to make it easy and create an experience. That's why my title is Chief Experience Officer — to build out those experiences across the entire Ledger ecosystem.

Exactly. And how that experience evolves.

Well, I'm sure your experience has evolved in three years, and it has much further to evolve.

One of the interesting things we've done is really try to bring together the world of Tony Fadell — who invented the iPod and co-invented the iPhone — with the world of Ledger, which is uncompromising when it comes to security. I think that's emblematic of the real challenge, because you really need to be uncompromising — no compromise — when it comes to security. Unfortunately, in every bull market, many people compromise on security, self-custody, or both. They always have a rational reason: 'The way we're going to onboard the masses is with a centralized custodian like FTX' or 'a software wallet that will bring on more people.' The problem is that's a compromise — you're saying security is less important than getting more users. What we want to do is get the maximum users while saying: we're not going to compromise on security or self-custody. We're going to bring these two worlds together. We have the Ledger team who says security can never be minus one, it always has to be plus one. Then we have Tony Fadell and his team who say it must be easy to use. You put those two worlds together, and I think Ledger Stax represents that. If the Ledger team had built it by themselves, it wouldn't be as beautiful. If Tony had built it by himself, it wouldn't be as secure. So give us the UX/UI DNA — the DNA of saying it must be fun, it must be pleasant to hold in your hand, the user experience must feel like it was created not for me and you, who are very technical, but for my sister, for someone who's less technical.

Look, the Ledger Nano has been very successful — we've sold 7 million of them. But it's for a more advanced user. To click 'OK,' you use your two thumbs — that's not what most users are accustomed to. That's why with Stax and Flex, it's very different. It's a touch screen. People are very familiar with a touch screen. You can say, 'Oh, I know how to use this — I just read the words, I touch the words, no problem.'

The question is how we communicate and educate our users on security. It's a great question. It's difficult because, unfortunately, people think about security after they have a problem, not necessarily before. So we need a lot of education. All of the events of 2022 did a lot of work to educate people about why Ledger is important. You had Celsius go illiquid in May 2022, Solana was hacked in August 2022, FTX in November 2022, and Silicon Valley Bank in early 2023. All of those events educated people on why security and self-custody are important — why maybe you shouldn't even trust your bank. What we try to do is give people education on why security, why self-custody, why Ledger. The trick is doing that without saying 'you're doing the wrong thing' or scaring people. It's more positive and more important. That's why we use the word 'uncompromising' — freedom from compromise. Because if you really think about it, there are only two options for your crypto: one would be a custodian that you really trust — I can't name five custodians I really trust in the whole world — or the second would be secure self-custody. Everything else is truly crazy. Why would you have a custodian you don't really trust? Why would you have self-custody that isn't really secure? That's not smart. So we educate people on why Ledger is the most secure self-custody option. I'm very lucky because Ledger is the most secure — there's not a second best. Ledger has a more superior architecture than any other self-custody product. The difficult part is explaining that to people and getting them to understand why Ledger is different and better.

The great promise of blockchain is not only speculation on digital value. The great promise is that we have this new invention — scarce digital assets — and we can use them for all kinds of things: digital collectibles, real-world assets, ownership in companies, and ultimately our identity. Identity is ownership. During COVID, I had a lot of mobility because I have an American passport and a French work visa — I am the owner of those two identity documents, and therefore I could move around the world. Identity is ownership; it also equals freedom. Being able to say first that I'm a human, not a robot, not AI — that's one layer of value. The second layer: I am a unique human, not a bot. When you see my post on Twitter, you can know it was posted by a unique human being, not a bot or someone with five accounts. Then another layer: I am Ian Rogers, I am an American citizen, I have a license to drive a motorcycle in California. All of these will be digital documents in the future. Right now it's pretty poor technology — paper documents or laminated documents. In the future, I will say I am the owner of the wallet that contains that document, and therefore I can prove to you that I am a unique human being and who I say I am.

It's a great question. In the world of digital assets, you have ownership over something digital, and the question is how do you store that. Your value is safe on the blockchain, but you have to prove that you're the owner of that value on the blockchain. So the question is: who do you trust? Unless you have literally coded everything yourself — which almost nobody does — you're trusting someone somewhere in the chain. You could be trusting a custodian like OKX, Binance, or Coinbase. You could be trusting a software wallet like Rabby, MetaMask, or Phantom. Or you could be trusting a hardware wallet like Ledger. A few things: Ledger has been around for 10 years and we've always been focused on the same thing — uncompromising security and self-custody. We're the only people in the whole world of crypto who have been saying the same thing for 10 years. Also, 99.9% of our code is open source, verifiable by third parties. The architecture is known — the 1% that is not open source is because we use a secure element chip from STMicroelectronics. This is a secure chip hardened over tens of years of use by dozens of billions of applications. It's the same chip in credit cards and passports around the world, trusted by banks and governments. Our code talks to those chips, and you can look at all of our code. We say 'don't trust, verify,' and that code is verifiable. When we do new features like Ledger Recover or our keychain product, we publish white papers verified by security experts. You're going to need to trust someone, so the question is who — and if you do the research, you'll find that Ledger has the superior architecture as well as the superior operating system. All of that code is open source and verified.