And the first thing we'll bring up is some positive news for the industry, news late last week involving the Congressional Cannabis Caucus. Two Democratic leaders are retiring — co-chairs, Republican Earl Blumenauer, who we all know very well and appreciate in the cannabis industry, and Barbara Lee from California. Taking their place are pro-cannabis Representatives Dina Titus of Nevada and Ilhan Omar from Minnesota, who said she wants to advance cannabis reform. So tell us a little bit about the two new names coming in and what are some notable moments for you that stood out as to why it defines them as pro-cannabis.
Yes, so the two Democrat members joining are Dina Titus from Nevada and Ilhan Omar from Minnesota. Dina Titus is pretty much a home run as far as cannabis goes — she's for rescheduling, she's for banking, she's for state rights. She supported adult use in Nevada. She came to the aid of the industry when the Cole Memo was repealed by Jeff Sessions. She was part of the penning of the letter to create transparency around the rescheduling process as it relates to the Biden Administration. She has no chinks in her armor — she is who should be representing the industry. Ilhan Omar, not so much. I'm not a big fan of hers. Some things she's said politically are un-American. You could kind of see her as a poison pill. She is for federal legalization, but on the basis of the DEI argument and the social equity argument. Politically, I don't know if Republicans are going to want to do business with her. Brian Mast and Dave Joyce also retained their positions within the Cannabis Caucus — they are champions of the industry and friends of the sector. But yeah, Dina Titus is an absolute home run.
The actual mission statement for the Cannabis Caucus is: it seeks to harmonize federal laws that conflict with various state laws that permit medical and recreational cannabis. There's a lot of contradiction there right now, as federal laws couldn't be farther from state cannabis laws. But I have faith that the voice and subject matter expertise that Representative Titus brings to the Cannabis Caucus gives me a lot of hope for things that could happen, or at least people with a fundamental understanding of what the industry needs are at the helm.
It's amazing how many different levels of government are just not on the same page. When you stop and look at what's going on at the state level versus federal, and the disconnect pertaining to this industry, I can't think of another example as to how the two are just so far apart and so not in line. When it comes to this caucus, you've mentioned some names we've highlighted quite a bit over the past six, seven, eight months since our first trip to Washington. How influential is this caucus when it comes to speaking to this new Trump Administration and really what their goal and initiative is — how influential will they be when it comes to advancing cannabis when speaking to the Trump Administration, do you think?
I don't think they're going to be that influential. An important data point is that Representative Mast is actually the representative from Donald Trump's district in Florida. Dave Joyce is obviously a very influential politician from Ohio. And like I said, Representative Titus is also a very well-to-do thought leader when it comes to the ins and outs of the cannabis industry. That being said, the Cannabis Caucus is going on its eighth year now — we haven't seen anything happen federally legislatively. The cannabis industry has been mired in just garbage, if I'm speaking openly, for the last couple of years. Despite their best efforts, we have yet to see anything actually get done. So I really don't think it's advantageous to give a lot of weight to the influence that this caucus could have within the halls of Congress.
Yeah, I think on paper that makes sense. But I also think you've got all the right people in the right places, and they've got eight years of experience now. It comes down to whether or not this administration thinks or looks at things differently pertaining to this space in comparison to previous administrations.
I think the administration is going to do what the administration wants to do. I don't think anyone's going to influence Donald Trump to go one way or the other on cannabis. We saw a statement, we've talked to people within the transition team, we've seen his appointments — they've alluded to they're going to get stuff done as it relates to reform. I don't think anyone is going to influence Trump's views on getting anything done for the cannabis industry. He's going to come to those conclusions by himself. I think he's going to have to come to the conclusion that it's going to be something he's going to gain political capital from and something that he can steal from the Democrats as a win. Anything short of that, I don't think is going to move the needle.
Gary writes: Texas seems to be clamping down on hemp. Do you all think this could help get MJ and hemp get together finally?
The ban that's going on in Texas right now — as much as I do agree with it in certain ways as getting synthetics and getting the industry cleaned up — it's also doing more harm than good as it's taking the actual plant out of people's hands that need it in Texas, as they do not have a medical program currently in the state. It is a blanket ban. I think we're going to see some modulation of that ban in the coming months.
Yeah. Eric writes: Texas not going to allow MJ, hemp will be okay.
I think you're bang on. I tend to agree with Eric. I think you're going to see low-dose hemp and certain forms of it that are allowed in the state of Texas. I don't think the blanket ban is going to stand.
Deborah Norenberg writes: I think it's important to note that it wasn't until Trump vocalized his stance on cannabis back in September of 2024 that he took the lead ahead of Harris. Coincidence? I don't think so.
Why haven't any MJ companies donated money to Trump inauguration? Crypto did.
I think you're about to — from what we heard when we were at MJBiz a month ago, there's going to be some major players in the cannabis space that are going to be cutting checks towards this. So just hold on tight, don't jump to conclusions yet. I think there's a lot of things coming, that's for sure.
But anything else you want to add there? I'm just looking at a few other comments as far as some of the notable names that are being rumored for prime minister. I'm actually just reaching out to the communications director for the premier of Ontario — he's a good friend of mine. I'll reach out to him when Anthony and Brady come on here in a bit and I'll find out some of the short list of names that could be rumored for prime minister of Canada, besides the obvious with Chrystia Freeland. But here we are, Into the Wire, TDR Trader Black Podcast, Monday, January 6th, first live stream of 2025. We've talked about how this year can't come fast enough. Is it two weeks from today that he's inaugurated? January 20th, correct? Two weeks from today. A lot of people will be watching that. So let's get on with this.
Next up, headline number two — and really a company that was probably everybody's favorite Q4 cannabis stock, Agrify. They made news today where they announced they're trading their vertical farm for booze-free buzz. They plan to sell their entire cultivation business to CP Acquisitions, and with it, it's going to eliminate roughly seven million dollars in convertible and open up the floodgates to their hemp-derived THC beverage strategy. Anthony, here we go — we talk a lot about 2025 being the year of hemp-derived beverages and it's off and running. I think for this company and really a lot of strategy — when you factor in GTI and really why they bought this company out in the first place.
Yeah, I mean it's interesting. There's a lot to like about GTI and the way they've been maneuvering. This Agrify acquisition, the Barstool partnership — a lot of things are going in GTI's favor strategically. The writing's on the wall for what they want to do. The potential Sam Adams relationship with Ben Kovler — they're lining up all the dominoes in the right way. That being said, Agrify as it stands today, fully diluted, is around a $400 million valuation. They acquired Senorita for $2 million, which gives you a certain degree of what kind of revenue they could be doing. AG has got a pretty lofty valuation to grow into. This is probably going to be a vehicle that you see other brands acquired and put into as some sort of portfolio play — I could be very wrong there. This could also be a shell that they amalgamate GTI into if uplisting is allowed down the road. There's a lot that we know, and a lot to be determined. But this is good to see — they stripped out the vertical farm assets that no one really ever believed were viable within the business, and that eliminated seven million in converts out of the cap stack as well. So yeah, this is a great step for Agrify, another step in the right direction for GTI and the business that Ben Kovler is now the CEO of.
Steven Pl writes: Why is GTI not trading well? They didn't have much of a run, it was pretty much flat. I know the one tweet you pushed out late last week was Trulieve being up 15% on the day while GTI has been flat. You care to elaborate or at least comment on that?
I have no idea why GTI is not trading well. I don't have a crystal ball to be completely honest. Liquidity is not there in the sector right now — people aren't buying. There's no fundamental reason or any other reason that I could make up as to why GTI is not trading well currently.
Well, it'd be interesting to see if you and I are having this conversation again twelve months from now when you factor in GTI buying Agrify, the Barstool angle, we talk about hemp-derived beverages being a major focal point in 2025 for many companies. How much do you think this is actually known in mainstream pop culture — consumer trends, behaviors, and how people will change over these next twelve months? It's a big growth year for this overall space pertaining to this specific industry, but how do you think advances here in the next twelve months could advance it? It could also retract.
You've got state-level bans going on all over the place. The state-level bans in Texas would nullify, from my understanding, the sale of beverages within the state. I don't think you're going to have the next twelve months elapse without some sort of punitive measure by Ron DeSantis as it relates to hemp in the state of Florida. They could have carve-outs for beverages, they could have carve-outs for low-dose edibles. I think the hemp-derived beverages are one of the most explosive form factors for cannabis in years. I think they're going to be a mainstream form factor for getting cannabis in the hands of consumers. I just think there's a lot of opacity around the next twelve months. Granted, the Farm Bill has been extended for twelve months, but I don't think it's truly known what's going to happen on a state-by-state basis as it relates to THC intoxicating products as a whole. It's very early in the year, as we all know.
So let's bring up our first guest — arguably the biggest name in cannabis, Mr. Boris Jordan, CEO and Chairman of Curaleaf. Good to see you, how are you?
Good to be here. Yes, good to see you guys. Happy New Year.
Happy New Year. So a lot's going on in the space right now. I think many investors look at this and we're still under this current administration. A lot of people feel like the walls are caving in — actually canceling some of their cannabis coverage, which was announced earlier this week. For a guy like you, obviously you have a lot of contacts in the space. First thing I'd like to ask is: have you had any conversations with any members of the Trump Administration thus far? What's your take on how they're going to view this space once they enter into office in less than two weeks?
Listen, I think that the Trump appointees — let's be very specific, people that are going to have to go through confirmation — have been told to muzzle it. And rightfully so. They've been told to get off social media, they've been told not to give interviews to the media, they've been told not to talk to any kind of interest groups. So really, it's radio silence coming out of the people that are actually relevant to us — people like RFK, people like Pam Bondi. So they're not talking right now. But I would say though that if you take a look at the people he's put on that are relevant to us, I think we look pretty good. And more importantly, if there's one thing I could say about Donald Trump: when he says he's going to do something, he certainly tries to do it. It doesn't mean there's a 100% success ratio — no president, no politician can boast that. But Donald Trump was one — if you remember, in his last administration he had a whiteboard in the Oval Office that was brought in, and they put every single promise that was made on the campaign trail and started ticking them off as they were executing them. So Trump takes this very seriously. He went very public on the issue of cannabis, and the only thing I can refer to is the three things he said he was going to do.
He was going to support Florida, which he did — unfortunately it didn't happen. He said he was going to support banking. And I actually think that given everything that's happened in banking, and more importantly, the Mark Cuban podcast with Rogan was super important for them because it's no longer a cannabis issue. And I can tell you, as someone who has been debanked — who banked with money-center banks, prime brokerage accounts at numerous organizations, I've paid hundreds of millions of dollars over the last thirty-five years in fees to these banks — I was debanked within sixty days of cannabis. And I was recently debanked again because now I'm CEO, so they're even taking a closer look at me. Someone who's been a direct recipient of this — and my children, some of whom aren't even in cannabis, have been debanked because of me being in cannabis. So it's a real problem.
If you remember what Andre said — the minute they had that meeting in Silicon Valley with the various departments that are in charge of national security and they said 'we're going to control AI' and called them out, all of a sudden their entrepreneurs were debanked in Silicon Valley. And Trump's wife and Barron were also apparently, the rumor has it, debanked after his court problems in New York. So I think this is not only a relevant issue for the whole country because I think it's frankly unconstitutional. American bank accounts — and especially, can you imagine you work in a grow facility, you don't make any decisions and you can't get a mortgage? I mean it's crazy, right? You're working in a legal state business in the United States and you can't get a bank account. So I think this is going to get addressed. I think it's going to get addressed in reconciliation, which by the way is really good news because you only need fifty-one percent in the Senate in reconciliation — you don't need sixty votes. So I think this gets done pretty soon is my view.
Nobody has inside information, and if anybody tells you they have inside information, they're full of it, because nobody can talk right now. But I think from everything we're hearing, I think the banking will probably get done. And on the issue of rescheduling — guys, talk to Pennington, I know him very well, talk to any of these people — it's irrelevant. I'm just telling you now. Your conversations — I don't mean to demean anybody — the only person that matters is Donald J. Trump. No L.J. Geller, no head of DEA doesn't matter what the DOJ is doing today. It doesn't matter if they're trying to get in the way of the process. Pam Bondi is going to do what the president tells her to do. So that's the only thing that matters. Everything else is noise.
You brought up the federal level and the states level and there's broken telephone going on within the government with what's going on with this overall space right now. What we heard actually a month ago at MJBiz is a lot of the bigger MSO companies are really getting aggressive with the right messaging and the right lobbying that's going to take place on behalf of the industry. Is that something you're approaching and preparing for here in 2025, knowing given what happened in Florida? We've — it's moment of truth time for this industry when you think of 2025.
Listen, I can't announce certain things, but I can tell you this: this industry, at least the top five, have never been closer. We talk on a regular basis. We've put our differences aside, we've put our egos aside. We are in full coordination mode, and we are putting up — I can tell you, there are going to be some big money put up to get both SAFE and this — we all realize it's make or break in the next two years for this industry, and we have to get this to happen. Everyone, including the ones that never cooperated with us, everyone's in. The real dollars — if you don't have a fifty-million-dollar PAC, you can't do anything in DC. So I can tell you we're going to be in good shape from that. No guarantees, by the way, but at least we're now coordinated, we're now talking to each other on a regular basis, and as I said, we've put our differences aside. We all know we need to do this to save the industry.
