Either you show what you're made of or you shut up, because it's unbearable. That so-called 'certain something' is key in founding. Daniel Krauss is one of the co-founders of FlixBus, now a globally operating transport company. Get ready for an incredibly exciting story from idea to scaling a company with thousands of employees. We talked about the future, leadership, what you need to learn. Enjoy. Daniel, greetings, thanks for your time.
Thanks for the invitation. You addressing me by first name makes it immediately likeable. It's an incredible company you've built. My childhood dream was to become a pilot – my mother was a flight attendant and I spent time at the airport. Later I was quite aimless during puberty. I got my first job at Siemens at 15, which exposed me to IT. That made me realize I wanted to work in that field, though not yet to start a company. I had trouble with authority in school, attended six or seven different schools. Eventually I realized the value of a degree and studied. The repetitive jobs for non-graduates pushed me to get my A-levels.
How did you meet your co-founders? You worked at Microsoft. How do you go from Microsoft to founding a transport startup?
The crazy idea was mostly Andrej's. He's from the same small town, we played volleyball together, and earlier we started an IT consulting company during internships. After selling that, we went separate ways – he to China, me to Detroit and then Microsoft. When I moved to Munich, we reconnected and complained about our golden hamster wheel. Our partners eventually told us to either act or shut up. We discussed ideas for months until Andrej found an article about the government planning to liberalize the long-distance bus market. That was our moment. I called him and said I knew what we'd do. The market was huge – in Germany you only had train, car, or plane. Technology could make the difference. Andrej insisted I come on board. We started working on it in late 2011/early 2012, and the first bus rolled in 2013.
I hear that having a team is crucial – co-founders who complement each other. Also timing. A TED talk analyzed thousands of startups and found the number one criterion was timing. Without that regulatory change, would Flix have worked? If you had founded five years earlier or later?
Some things are necessary: entrepreneurial spirit to handle uncertainty, a certain intellect, and execution ability. Even with all that, there's still that 'certain something' – timing or serendipity, which is hard to plan. Competitors like DeinBus were a bit too early, others too late. You just have to go full throttle and trust your gut. Many entrepreneurs fail because they're too early, so you've got to try again and again.
I've seen a lot of hype around founding in recent years. Not everyone needs to be a founder. But entrepreneurial skills should be taught. Would you agree that it's not for everyone – sleepless nights, responsibility, lawsuits?
Absolutely. I agree with the distinction between skills and abilities. Abilities are close to personality – some people are better suited for entrepreneurship, others for being great lawyers or doctors. I'd be a terrible lawyer. Skills are tools that can be learned. We should teach entrepreneurial skills like economic basics, percentages – many people can't calculate percentages. But that doesn't mean everyone must start a startup. There are wonderful German Mittelstand companies that are highly profitable without needing a hockey stick. And then there are platform models like Flix that need external funding. Venture capital is legitimate but shouldn't be forced. Regarding co-founders: if I had done this alone for the last 12 years, I would have cried myself to sleep many times. With a team you have complementary personalities and you can support each other emotionally. That's been crucial for us.
It's impressive that some US tech founders do it alone, but that also shows resilience not everyone has.
I think often there's a team in the background, even if not visible. There are exceptions, maybe even autistic individuals. But even Bill Gates had Paul Allen, Steve Jobs had Wozniak. People who go it completely alone for a long time might risk going off track.
You're involved with Startup Teens and support Jugend gründet. In the pre-talk we spoke about taking a breath, research, information gathering. How do you see the state of education in schools now? Is there room for improvement?
I have insights from my own school days and through initiatives like Startup Teens, and our older son starts school in September. Saying there's room for improvement is an understatement. The school system lacks agility. Subjects that were once relevant have lost relevance, while new topics like digital competence, economic competence, and even how to research digital media aren't taught. I'll be unpopular, but Latin is pointless now – you can just use your camera to translate. It would be more useful to understand how a democracy works. The system isn't agile enough on one hand, and on the other it's an execution problem, not a knowledge problem. Federalism in education is absurd. We're educating away from reality. Students are more schooled than ever – universities now feel like high school. With G8 and Bachelor/Master, we produce early 20-year-olds who are content-wise advanced but lost in the complex world.
Exactly, execution is key. You see this in the federal system, with states, municipalities, and school boards. During COVID, we finally executed and used tools like Teams, but then it was rolled back. We've settled back into inaction.
The problem is mindset – especially in Germany and other wealthy developed countries, there's a preservation mindset, a fixed mindset. You need a mix, but we lean too much toward preserving. Change only comes with disruptive events, but we haven't had one besides COVID. Even then, during my school talks, teachers refused to turn on cameras citing DSGVO. I said, 'You'll have to get used to it because in business, cameras are common.' That mindset of 'we might get sued' kills initiative. There are good teachers who use personal hotspots and take risks because they feel called. But many do it just as a job and follow rules to avoid mistakes. You can't achieve excellence by avoiding mistakes.
Great point about risk. I think of teacher Max Mittelmann, who fought for equipment for modern physics experiments. His students voluntarily came during holidays. Those are the teachers I remember. It's about vocation and impact.
Yes, I remember maybe three or four teachers from my whole school career because they were special – either strict and consistent or truly passionate. The rest are forgettable. But the impact a teacher can have on hundreds of students is huge. Now with AI, never was the human element more important. AI is a tool to empower teachers and learners. As for fears about AGI, I'm not worried. AI is based on human-made data; the creative human mind is something else. We're far from machines replicating that. We should teach understanding of intelligence and AI to reduce fear. DeepSeek shows we can achieve good results with less energy, which is great. The hype and marketing around AI are huge, but we should stay calm.
Americans are great at marketing. DeepSeek just dropped the NASDAQ by 500 billion? It's fascinating. It's open source, uses less energy, achieved similar results. That's a game changer for energy needs.
Yes, DeepSeek proved that you don't need as many chips or as much energy. That's good because we don't need to build more nuclear plants just to power AI queries. I've spoken with experts who said to wait 12-18 months to see the real energy and cost implications. It's all happening very fast and unpredictably.
Let's go back to your beginnings. In 2012-13, we were light-years from such breakthroughs. How was the first phase? You had to buy a bus in Germany because of regulation. How did you finance? Bootstrapped or went straight to VCs?
We started with each of us putting in about €10,000. I had to borrow from my sister. I worked part-time at Microsoft, kudos to them for supporting me. We then got a founding credit from Sparkasse München and KfW of €240,000 – €80,000 each, personally guaranteed. That funded building the first platform. After the law passed, we got our first VC from Holtzbrinck Ventures. But before that, we raised business angel money from progressive entrepreneurs who believed in us. It was incredibly hard work – Andrej joked I'd die from scurvy because I lived on cigarettes and cola. Our first office was a shack. But we got through.
Night doesn't feel like anything at all. You're in a flow, like a good high. Anyone who has ever tried something knows that. You don't really pay attention to what will come of it because of this flow effect and healthy naivety. You don't know what's coming, but you believe in it firmly. You're in a mode where I was really lucky with family and friends outside of Jochen and Andre, who eventually told me I looked pretty bad and to take it easy. But otherwise, you're in the flow, like bitten by a tarantula, and you just keep going.
Were there any special milestones? From zero to 100 employees, from 100 to 500?
Emotionally, our first own office was a milestone. The first handful of employees were a milestone because it's special when people trust you and say, 'Cool, I'll join.' When the system went live and the first bus drove, that was emotional. Organizationally, milestones are about how you structure the company. The first time you have to think about structuring, hierarchy, teams. It's not just all of us together in one office. Around 30 people, then between 100 and 120, then between 300 and 500. Above that, it doesn't matter. Those are thresholds where you have to think about how to structure. You can use hierarchy, but if you think more creatively, there are other forms. We're not big fans of hierarchy. Flix now has hierarchies, but we try to maintain direct access and bidirectional exchange. That keeps us close to the action and holds people accountable, fostering an entrepreneurial spirit. So there are emotional moments and organizational moments.
How do you handle it? Of course, Corona came. For whom was it not a slap in the face? And now the topic of home office versus office requirement. How do you handle that?
