CEOInterviews.AIDan Clancy talks to JellyYT | Let's Chat Podcast EP 7

D

Dan Clancy0:03

Hello and welcome to Let's Chat. Let's Chat is a live podcast where I talk with creators about live streaming and the ways that streamers and their community shape culture yesterday, today, and in the future.

U

Unknown0:18

Um I get on the game, have a good time, talk to chat, and just enjoy the moment.

It's what the It's what the kids enjoy these days.

You cannot lay the next brick without the one that comes before it.

I mean, it took me so much time.

Time. Time is the most valuable resource in the entire world.

And I still want to collaborate with a lot of different communities and sort of be the bridge between them.

D

Dan Clancy0:41

Hello. Welcome to Let's Chat. Um we are live here at TwitchCon and for everybody online, thanks for being here. Everybody in the audience, thank you. I'm Dan Clancy, the CEO of Twitch, and today we are here with Jelly and No Grainer.

J

Jelly0:58

Yeah. Uh TwitchCon is a good time. That TwitchCon is a good time. It's early in the morning here. If you're watching from abroad, uh we uh we had a good time.

D

Dan Clancy1:09

Yeah. And um it's great to be with Jelly. Um we actually just met yesterday.

J

Jelly1:14

We did.

D

Dan Clancy1:14

first time.

J

Jelly1:15

Yeah, you started rapid-firing questions. I was like, 'Hey, keep it for the Let's Chat.'

D

Dan Clancy1:18

for tomorrow, so I didn't know nothing about him. No, I I did a little research. Did a little research. And we also We're going to have to recreate the conversation we just had because actually it was a really good conversation. But

But given that we are live on Twitch now, I am sure there is somebody watching.

J

Jelly1:34

Okay.

D

Dan Clancy1:34

Okay, that wants you to give just a quick story of Jelly and all the freaking set the quick. I said quick.

J

Jelly1:41

Quick. We'll keep it quick.

D

Dan Clancy1:43

So So, who are you?

J

Jelly1:44

Wow. Well, uh my name's Jelly. I'm a Dutch guy, which actually is funny cuz I'm in my home country right now, but I don't live here anymore. I moved out about 10 years ago. I've been a creator for 15-plus years, even though I'm 29. This is a weird industry. You I'm an old guy here in this industry now. It's weird. I play video games Yeah, you look old. I was going to say you look a little old. Yeah, thank you, bro. Thank you. Thank you, dad. Um no, I play video games for a living. Uh right now focusing on GTA for obvious reasons. Still waiting. It's been 13 years since the last game out. That's That GTA 5 is the reason my career kicked off. I will say I I I think this time it is coming hell or high water. I can't wait. I think it's happening. I think it's happening. it's happening. No doubt. 100% I know it's happening. There's no more delays. Yes. No No more further information I can say. No, I'm kidding. I wish so. Right, I can't either. I can't either.

D

Dan Clancy2:39

Um okay, so let's go back. I think 2010

J

Jelly2:42

is when you started. Uh yeah, I don't know the year. I think around there. Something like that. I mean, I've been doing it ever since I was like a kid. Like really like go back to when you were a kid though. Yeah. Let's go back to your kid and tell the story of talk about that, you know, how you just started to do it. You know. Okay, so A, I loved video games, right? So, I was playing a game called Runescape at the time, which is actually still semi-popular on Twitch. well, yes, because if you if you loved Runescape you Runescape you still play Runescape. I think Runescape came out in 2004, so I was 8 years old and I was grinding that game. Yeah. I didn't really care too much about school, which I I'm not the greatest example, I suppose, but Runescape Runescape So, all the all the parents may not want their young kids listening to this. I I don't know. Hey, it turned out fine for me, so there is there are chances. So, Runescape was a great game. Loved that to death. And um there was this trend going on of people recreating music videos uh like MTV music videos on actually YouTube in the game Runescape. And I wanted to do that to do that, too. So, I downloaded the the at the time called HandiCam, which basically records your screen. It's like pre-OBS days. And I just like typed the lyrics and just created a little music video. And I was like maybe 10 years old at the time.

D

Dan Clancy4:02

Wow.

J

Jelly4:03

And because the the creator space wasn't as flooded yet, you know, it was kind of easy to get like 100 views, 200 views. And that was exciting.

D

Dan Clancy4:12

Yep.

J

Jelly4:13

That was really exciting. So, my first Christmas present that I can really remember is I asked my parents, I want to have a camera. I want to have a camera to record my screen and record things outside and record my face and and whatever. And I got that one. I think I was like 11, 12 years old and that's just kind of when it rolled.

D

Dan Clancy4:32

Yeah.

J

Jelly4:33

Yeah.

So, it's it's kind of I don't I don't remember doing anything else.

D

Dan Clancy4:37

Right.

J

Jelly4:37

I've never had a real job.

D

Dan Clancy4:38

Right.

J

Jelly4:39

I've never flipped burgers.

D

Dan Clancy4:41

Well. Well, well, well, and in terms of when you were so into it, when you were still in high school

J

Jelly4:47

Yeah.

D

Dan Clancy4:47

and all that, did you start building an audience while you were still in high school or had you left high school when the audience start getting

J

Jelly4:55

Yeah, so I think I was around 13, 14 years old and I had a channel with So, this is like 15, 16 years ago. I had a channel with like 3, 4,000 subs and I was playing a lot of Call of Duty at the time. This is like Call of Duty 4. I can't remember the year. And then Rockstar Games actually announced a game called GTA 5.

D

Dan Clancy5:15

A little thing.

J

Jelly5:16

Yeah, that's when they announced it. I was a big GTA fan at the time, so I created a brand new channel called GTA 5 videos, which is 3 years pre-GTA 5 release. So, this is 16 years ago, I guess. And that channel blew up. I think that was my first channel with 100 100k subs at the time. And I started making decent money. I remember I got locked in with some crazy contracts cuz all these companies from the US start calling you for money and it was terrible, but

D

Dan Clancy5:44

Uh-huh.

J

Jelly5:45

you know, still I was doing pretty well for myself. I was a young little boy, yeah.

D

Dan Clancy5:49

Still in high school.

J

Jelly5:51

Yes.

D

Dan Clancy5:51

And and now did were you then cool in school or not?

J

Jelly5:55

Uh

D

Dan Clancy5:55

Did that venture cuz you know another than generally the the kids that love gaming aren't the cool kids in school but that

J

Jelly6:01

like the most popular. I was like kind of medium, you know.

D

Dan Clancy6:04

But but was it since you were online doing stuff was it like oh wow, that's kind of that's kind of interesting.

J

Jelly6:09

work, they laugh at you. Like if it works, they they're like they look up to you.

D

Dan Clancy6:15

Yeah.

J

Jelly6:15

So um I suppose it's a little bit of both, you know. I wasn't like the most popular but I wasn't like being bullied or anything.

D

Dan Clancy6:21

Right, right, right. I I do think what the interesting thing I think what you're is is so true that like um of course there's all these challenges being online but when you're in high school you have this both sides cuz if anything you somebody doesn't like then it's just more more immediate, you know.

J

Jelly6:37

Yeah. Well, I didn't stay very long. I dropped out when I was Actually, I wasn't even allowed to legally drop out. I hope I can say this but I talked to my what is it called? In Dutch you call it a mentor. I don't know what it's what the English name is and I just I just told him hey dude, like this is my passion. This is what I want to do.

D

Dan Clancy6:55

parents were how did your parents feel about it? Were they like

J

Jelly6:59

They were they gave me one gap year to make it work. They said I'll give you one year. If it works out, good for you. We'll give you another year and if it doesn't work out, you're going straight back.

D

Dan Clancy7:08

All right.

J

Jelly7:09

And luckily it worked out. So yeah, I think I was 16, 17 at the time and I just said see you later guys, I'm not coming back.

D

Dan Clancy7:16

All right. So so so of course, you know, back in when Twitch came around back 2000, you know, 10, 11, 12 and all that. Of course a lot of the YouTube gaming creators one thing that I've often said is you know, one thing that works so well Twitch is if you were a YouTube gaming creator the one thing you had to do to create a 20-minute or an hour video was game for 3 hours.

J

Jelly7:44

For sure.

D

Dan Clancy7:44

Right? And then Twitch came along and was like, 'Oh, wait. You mean I can have people watch me?' And but you interestingly didn't I mean you dabble, but you didn't do that back then.

J

Jelly7:56

You're right.

D

Dan Clancy7:57

You know, in some ways that was of course there are a number who did it, but you're a little distinctive in that when when live streaming. So, what when back then back in when you know, it started you know, 2013, 14, why wasn't live streaming something that you know,

J

Jelly8:12

Well, I I'll be very realistic, Dan. The YouTube space and just the creator space in general was still very young. And for so for somebody to just make a living off of it in general was like a rare thing. So, when something that fragile is happening, you don't want to risk it or do anything else. So, my main thought was I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing here. This is going to be 100% or 110% of my focus and I know I can make money somewhere else. I know I can grow an audience somewhere else. I know I can do what it like other things, but this is what's working, so that's what I'm going to keep doing now.

D

Dan Clancy8:46

When did you did you try live streaming back then or not?

J

Jelly8:49

I did. I think in 2000 and God, I I can't remember the years. It's so long, Dan. A long time ago. Like 10 years ago. I was actually Twitch partner at the time already. And I did do some streaming.

D

Dan Clancy9:01

Did you enjoy it or was it kind of like an answer to that?

J

Jelly9:04

I enjoyed streaming, actually. Yeah, I really enjoy streaming cuz you can be a little bit more true to yourself. And you can just actually have like genuine fun with your audience, right? Whereas the video, especially these days, it's just like over edited. It's in production for a week. It's not you know, it's it's it's not TV level, not even close, but there's more things going on. With Twitch or streaming in general, you just hit live.

D

Dan Clancy9:26

Right.

J

Jelly9:27

Have one idea, just hit live.

D

Dan Clancy9:28

Yep.

J

Jelly9:28

Yep. There's nothing nothing else to it. And your audience loves it.

D

Dan Clancy9:31

Yep.

J

Jelly9:31

You know?

D

Dan Clancy9:31

Yep. And now now you've been streaming a little more over for last year. years. little bit more lately. It's It's just been you know, in the back of my head and I'll be realistic as well. Like I'm focusing less on on YouTube content these days. I used to post two videos a day.

J

Jelly9:47

Okay, two a day.

D

Dan Clancy9:47

Two a day for 6 7 years straight.

J

Jelly9:50

Wow.

D

Dan Clancy9:50

Now I'm posting two a week in a good week.

J

Jelly9:53

Really?

D

Dan Clancy9:53

Yeah.

J

Jelly9:54

Yeah. And how long how long are your videos usually?

D

Dan Clancy9:57

30 to 40 minutes at the moment.

J

Jelly9:59

Okay.

D

Dan Clancy9:59

But they do take a good 2 weeks to produce.

J

Jelly10:01

Right.

D

Dan Clancy10:02

So

J

Jelly10:02

Are are the are the two that you you used to be two a day, now two a week, but is there has the production value changed in the two a week from the two a day?

D

Dan Clancy10:11

Yeah.

J

Jelly10:12

Okay. So talk about that. Talk about how the production value, you know, and how you think about the storytelling and all that.

D

Dan Clancy10:18

in general as well. That's the creator space, you know, you need to you need to like always level up yourself and and be better than your your biggest competitor, right? Um because if you are at the top, you're going to get comfortable there and you're going to stop innovating. And so the the only way to catch the top is to to innovate beyond them and to do things that are better than than what they are doing. Think differently. And so um when I was doing really well on YouTube and I was posting two videos a day, that was really working for me. But at the same time, a lot of smaller creators, they were they were leveling up their their production game. They were had better hooks. They had better thumbnails. They had better edits. They had everything figured out better. They weren't performing better at the time, but you know, eventually because I was very comfortable, eventually that catches up, you know? So that's just that's just the space in general. People will always catch up to you if you stop innovating.

J

Jelly11:13

Right.

D

Dan Clancy11:13

And so uh I've also been in the news for a long time. I'm not going to do the daily grind anymore. I mean, that's that was very stressful.

J

Jelly11:20

You have a team now.

D

Dan Clancy11:21

I have a team, yes.

J

Jelly11:22

So if you if you wanted to produce more, you could you could produce more in terms of the team and all that, right?

D

Dan Clancy11:31

I

J

Jelly11:31

I could definitely post more. I I could probably double it, uh but it's just not something that I would want to do right now.

D

Dan Clancy11:37

Right. Right.

J

Jelly11:38

Maybe uh maybe around 6 months time.

D

Dan Clancy11:40

What about short What about short form content?

J

Jelly11:43

Uh short form is a tricky one. I don't really get it, to be honest. It's fun.

D

Dan Clancy11:47

Well, you're an old man.

J

Jelly11:48

Huh? Sorry.

D

Dan Clancy11:49

I said you're an old man.

J

Jelly11:50

I'm an old

D

Dan Clancy11:50

Right? All these all the all these youngsters with this short form stuff.

J

Jelly11:53

Short form is something as a creator you have to do. You don't really want to do it, in my opinion.

D

Dan Clancy11:58

Mhm.

J

Jelly11:59

Um it doesn't really make you any money. There's no real revenue model. It grows your audience to an extent, but then you realize it doesn't actually translate to anything. Right. So, I wish it never it I wish it never existed in a way, but it does. We'll just have to live with it.

D

Dan Clancy12:16

Interestingly Interestingly, one of the things I often think about and this is there's really been this arc. If you go back to pre-YouTube, right? You think of the the number of people that could creatively build something that could translate to linear TV. Right? The number of people in the world that had that creative vision and all that smaller. Then YouTube camera, the number of people that could creatively express a vision increased exponentially because, you know, because of YouTube and cameras and all that. Um but of course, creating a 5-to-10-minute video that's good is actually pretty hard.

J

Jelly12:52

Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

D

Dan Clancy12:52

Okay. Creating a 30-second short, God, who can't do that, right? And so in some ways, right? The creative I suspect one of the reasons too is there's something about the creative the uniqueness and the creative expression when you have more time and it's just so short.

J

Jelly13:13

Yeah, I mean making or standing out in general will always be hard because there's always people that are doing thinking things differently and maybe doing things better. Uh but I think because shorts are just short form content, you can do a whole lot more of them and experiment a lot more. So, uh

D

Dan Clancy13:30

It's a volume game sometimes. It's interesting. It's a volume game as opposed to saying cuz you put two out a week and you work to make sure each one of those are good.

J

Jelly13:38

Yeah.

D

Dan Clancy13:39

Right? Part of the strategy in short form is more more more and let the algorithm figure out which ones are good.

J

Jelly13:45

Exactly.

D

Dan Clancy13:46

And to be honest, when one pops, you think, 'Now I figured it out.' And then you recreate it, you you change the hook slightly, or you you you upload the exact same thing, and the second time it just doesn't work.

J

Jelly13:56

It doesn't pop, right?

D

Dan Clancy13:58

Doesn't make any sense.

J

Jelly13:59

Right. Right.

D

Dan Clancy13:59

It's like it's like the time of day and the hour of the day you uploaded matters. It I don't really There's no real

J

Jelly14:05

Okay, I have a I have a great thread to go on here. Which I I have a big belief there's always this um uh blend, okay, of um uh uh raw talent, okay, hard work, and luck, okay? And in any endeavor, it's some, you know, blend of those things.

D

Dan Clancy14:25

For sure.

J

Jelly14:25

So, talk about yourself and how much of your success and and try to be honest in terms of cuz we all do have real talents, right? You know, that are kind of us, you know, talent, hard work, versus luck.

D

Dan Clancy14:38

I think the I I'll jump on the luck thing first because I think that's the one like people are probably always wondering like how much like that guy just got lucky. Um or how much luck did that guy had. I think the luck element is probably the the the the the people that you surround yourself with. Or or you might get born into it. Like like for example, I had a family who uh saw what I did and they just let me do it, right? Of course, if it didn't work out, they would have probably pulled some strings at the time, but I was I was enjoying it, and they could see that, and that's probably that's luck, right? Because that's something that's out of my control.

J

Jelly15:14

Interesting in some ways you if I said randomness instead of luck, it's almost yes, because it's out of your control.

D

Dan Clancy15:20

If you then go back to the hard work, if I didn't put in the work as a 12-year-old boy at the time and my parents would have seen that I wasn't putting in any work, they wouldn't have let me do that. So, how much luck really is it? So, I think you can work you can work towards luck with hard work. You can you can generate luck in a way by putting time and effort into it.

J

Jelly15:44

I actually I think I think in in very few disciplines is being in the right place at at the right time not an important thing, right? And one of the things that people mistake is they they look at people who've done better than them and says, 'Oh, I'm just as good as them. They were lucky.' But of course, for for wherever you are, there 10 people below you that weren't there. And you want to make sure you put yourself in a position to see as many open doors as possible. And then you have to be able to walk through it, but but you got to be grinding.

D

Dan Clancy16:15

Yeah.

J

Jelly16:16

Um but sometimes you grind and that door doesn't appear.

D

Dan Clancy16:19

No.

J

Jelly16:20

So, you got to grind harder.

D

Dan Clancy16:21

Grind harder.

J

Jelly16:22

Even though it sometimes it feels like you can't.

D

Dan Clancy16:23

Yeah.

J

Jelly16:24

Uh I mean, luck is definitely it exists uh for for more for some people than than others.

D

Dan Clancy16:30

I actually think with short-form, like when you look at those, it's shifted in the equation. That in fact, because of the nature of virality and something just clicking and all that, the ratio of those three things, um which is why they just put more out there, put more out there, put more out there, put more out there and hopefully one of them

J

Jelly16:49

just pops.

D

Dan Clancy16:50

Yeah.

J

Jelly16:50

Short-form's a tricky one. I have some with a lot of views and I have some with with that don't have any traction at all and it just doesn't make any sense.

D

Dan Clancy16:56

Yeah.

J

Jelly16:56

But I'm not really too worried about it either, to be honest.

D

Dan Clancy16:59

let's let's talk about um uh all your collaborators and all your collaborators. Cuz I I I was doing of course research and I couldn't keep track of Jelly Crain or Slogo. So, you've got a whole crew that's gone in and out. And First for those who don't know about that, talk about that a little and then I have a question about

J

Jelly17:22

So back when I started like I think when I was was 16 17 years old I met a guy named Kwebbelkop who was quite decently popular at the time already and I also was popular at the time and we we both connected and we both found out that hey what we're doing is pretty unique and we're both really good at it. Obviously both being young at young at the time. So we both kind of convinced each other to quit school and focus on this YouTube thing. So we rented a place in Amsterdam. I moved out and we just we just sent it. And the funny part is even though I live with this guy for a year I barely saw him. Yeah, I barely saw him. The only place I saw him was online. We were recording every single day 12 hours a day working together but we were in the same space. We'd have like a dinner together or

D

Dan Clancy18:12

You never saw him you mean? Never saw him physically. You were in your room, he was in his room and y'all were hanging out. That's hilarious.

J

Jelly18:18

Yeah, like it was it was a grind. And at the time we also knew some other creators online so that that was Kwebbelkop. And we knew some other creators online that some of them we worked with consistently and some of them not and eventually we kind of formed a group together with so it was Kwebbelkop and Slogo. You mentioned his name.

D

Dan Clancy18:38

The reason I didn't mention Kwebbelkop is because I read the name and I was like I don't know how to pronounce his name.

J

Jelly18:43

Yeah, it means chatter hat chatter hat in Dutch yeah chatter hat. So yeah, so then we we just kind of naturally formed a group. We never really like branded it properly which we could have maybe we should have but we at the time we were very young and it's like I said this this whole industry was and still is so fragile right? So you don't want to like overdo things or put yourself into a position where you're not going to get other things. So we never really we never really had a group name. I'd say like the core fan base knows we had something going on, but we never like

D

Dan Clancy19:21

Right.

J

Jelly19:21

branded it properly. We never had any merchandise around it. We never because we kind of wanted to remain flexible.

D

Dan Clancy19:27

Right.

J

Jelly19:27

Which in the end happened to be very flexible because then people leave and come back and leave and all that.

D

Dan Clancy19:32

from reading it's like it's been in and out and then

J

Jelly19:34

Yeah. Which is which is a bit sad to be honest. I wish we just had one neat group that we could ride all the way to the end with, but that didn't happen. Um Uh I mean, obviously I'm not going to speak for any of the others, but I think the first guy he left because he had a burnout.

D

Dan Clancy19:51

Mhm.

J

Jelly19:51

Uh you know, we were doing two videos a day for years, 5 6 years, and eventually that just catches up on you, especially especially when you're not uh dealing with things you have to deal with in your private life. So,

D

Dan Clancy20:03

Mhm.

J

Jelly20:04

you know, that happens. I we were waiting for him for a while to see maybe he's kind of going to come back, uh but that didn't really happen. So, then we randomly found another creator named Craner, who's going to be here today.

D

Dan Clancy20:20

Yeah, and we just organically had a good time with him, and then we started recording with him.

J

Jelly20:25

Yeah.

D

Dan Clancy20:26

And uh then he left. So,

J

Jelly20:29

Right. And now

D

Dan Clancy20:30

And then I left.

J

Jelly20:31

And then and then and then you came back.

D

Dan Clancy20:33

Uh well, no, actually I I didn't really There's kind of like We're all just individual creators and we just record

J

Jelly20:39

Right.

D

Dan Clancy20:40

with other people like but we still we also know each other. So, yeah.

J

Jelly20:43

Yeah. And and and one of the things is you've intermixed your personal friendships with collaboration.

D

Dan Clancy20:52

Yeah, but I feel like that's natural in this type of business, you know? Like we're all We're all We're all people, right? So, you you you all we all know each other personally, but we're all running our own business, and we're actually our biggest competitors. Yeah. And this is like super risky.

J

Jelly21:07

Yep.

D

Dan Clancy21:07

Um Yeah, but that's just that's the business kind of, you know?

J

Jelly21:12

So

D

Dan Clancy21:12

Although although I think the thing I I do think one of the differences between streaming and and you know, YouTube videos is streaming is at its very foundation collaborative.

J

Jelly21:24

Yeah.

D

Dan Clancy21:25

Because to get up there and live stream by yourself repeatedly, you know, really if you think about all they all are in the groups whether it's Kai with AMP or whether it's OTK or whether it is you look at Tubbo and all the Minecraft that collaborate together. Collaboration is so foundational. Interestingly, someone like IShowSpeed is the exception.

J

Jelly21:46

True.

D

Dan Clancy21:47

Right? You know, when you think of big streamers, you don't think of many that aren't always collaborating with someone, right? But in YouTube that there are a lot of YouTube, you know, creators that are by you know, by themselves, right? Predominantly by themselves. So I find it interesting that your creator group actually it had a lot of those same characteristics that you see in these live groups, right? But y'all were all doing predominantly YouTube videos.

J

Jelly22:15

Yeah, yeah, it's it's tough. We're all running our own business at the same time. We all had our own team. We had some kind of rules behind the scenes like, you know, we can't snatch each others editors, each others thumbnail designers, or or just people that work for us in general. And that went well for the most part, but I can guarantee you being a group is a very tough and actually much more tough than just being the the main man of the show. You're just running your own team.

D

Dan Clancy22:41

Yep.

J

Jelly22:41

Um you know, everyone's running their own business for their own best interests and um that has challenges, let's just say. And if you if you're make making the comparison to the other streamer groups there's usually just one A player. And then the rest are just B players. And the problem with Uh, many YouTube groups than ours in particular is like we were all the A player.

D

Dan Clancy23:04

Mhm. So, and that that doesn't work.

J

Jelly23:07

Right.

D

Dan Clancy23:07

Does that make sense?

J

Jelly23:07

Right. Right. No, no, no. That that it I I I mean, it's a human nature thing. Right? You know, when you think of human nature and tribes and all that, a lot of times you end up there is this but who's at the top?

D

Dan Clancy23:18

Yeah.

J

Jelly23:19

Right? And it's unusual for groups of people to get together without one being, you know, those

D

Dan Clancy23:26

There's always one shining. There's always one shining.

J

Jelly23:29

Yeah.

D

Dan Clancy23:29

And uh there's reasons for that as well. You know, he might have things figured out differently, better, or he's just much more funny.

J

Jelly23:37

Yeah.

D

Dan Clancy23:37

Or or whatever. And that's actually good as well. Like for the B players as well, they can become the A player eventually.

J

Jelly23:43

Yeah. Or sometimes they go off on their own.

D

Dan Clancy23:45

to stay at the top forever.

J

Jelly23:46

Right. Right. You see that You see that in all walks.

D

Dan Clancy23:49

So, innovate over him. Do things that are better, different.

J

Jelly23:52

You see that in music, where you have a music group one and then someone else pops up. So, so talk about um you know, as you've had success,

D

Dan Clancy24:00

Okay.

J

Jelly24:02

how that um uh changes in terms of feeling some pressure from that success.

D

Dan Clancy24:11

That's a good question. I mean, um the suc- the success online is a weird one because still to this day I do all my work at home in a guest bedroom. So, uh I don't I I've always tried to keep keep myself a little bit grounded. I don't want to have an office full of people working for me cuz I think that could be dangerous. Uh it could also make things a little bit too serious, and I think the fun part about this creative job that we have is is actually keep it kind of low-key because that's more then you're more true in the content and true to yourself and true to your audience, right? Because if I'm going to move far away from what got me where I am, how is the audience going to per- perceive that? So, pressure-wise, as long as you're at home, there's no real pressure, in my opinion. They're just numbers on a screen. Of course, if you go to real-life venue and or an event like TwitchCon and there's a bunch of people that know you, that's just weird. Like, these numbers are real people. That doesn't really make any sense. But, when you're like to me anyway, when I'm at my house, like I don't I don't really think about it. I don't I turn off my phone or my PC and it's gone.

J

Jelly25:24

I I I wonder um is if some of that is being is being Dutch and being like there is this keep up with the Joneses. If you're living in LA and everybody's living in LA and trying to get ahead, you feel like you always have to be getting somewhere and it seems like that's a pressure being in a bubble. Right. And it seems like at some point as opposed to you feeling like I need to be somewhere else, it seems like for a little while you're kind of happy with where you're at or do you feel like no, I got to get to the next rung of the ladder?

D

Dan Clancy26:01

Well, I definitely still feel like I want to level up my game. Don't get me wrong. It's not like I don't want to work for it anymore. I want to work real hard.

J

Jelly26:08

I'm not saying you don't want to get better creatively. There's a difference between I want to keep innovating and keep creating and there's a difference between that and evaluating it purely by whether or not you're bigger than the next guy.

D

Dan Clancy26:20

Yeah. So, I'll be realistic. I want to be the biggest guy doing GTA content. And that's going to be very tough cuz everybody's going to be doing it, right? So, it's about putting the groundwork in there.

J

Jelly26:29

Who's the biggest guy right now?

D

Dan Clancy26:31

Uh no, I'm on YouTube definitely not.

J

Jelly26:33

Who's the biggest guy?

D

Dan Clancy26:34

Ooh, that's a good question. Um His name's Triton, I think. He's a good buddy in the room right here. I think he's the biggest GTA player on YouTube. For streaming, I wouldn't know. I'm looking at you there. That's a It's a question. You see, the game's so old, man.

J

Jelly26:52

Yeah.

D

Dan Clancy26:52

Same The game is so old.

J

Jelly26:54

Well, also on streaming on streaming it's RP as what?

D

Dan Clancy26:56

Yeah, RP is huge. Um it could even be like a non-English creator, to be very honest with you. But when GTA 6 is coming along, everybody and their grandma's going to play that game. So, whoever's the biggest GTA player right now when that game comes, it's probably going to be Mr. Beast, to be very honest with you.

J

Jelly27:12

Yeah.

D

Dan Clancy27:14

Everyone's like, 'I got to play.'

J

Jelly27:15

He's the biggest now, so if he's going to play it, he's going to be the biggest one. But uh I just want it like I'm just trying to create the absolute best content I could possibly do. That's why I'm uploading a whole lot less.

D

Dan Clancy27:25

Mhm.

J

Jelly27:25

Just trying to level up the production game. Just trying to uh produce the absolute best videos. And then, once we've got the ball rolling there, try and optimize to um instead of producing one to two videos a week, produce three or four a week, you know? Get them all We We try and We try and speed things up. I think that's kind of the best workflow for me right now. So.

D

Dan Clancy27:47

Are you Are you and holding back is the wrong word, but I'll use it. Holding back some of your creative ideas for GTA 6 where

J

Jelly27:56

No, I'm not. Because no no one Nobody knows

D

Dan Clancy28:00

What the heck

J

Jelly28:00

except for you, maybe.

D

Dan Clancy28:01

No.

J

Jelly28:02

Nobody knows what they're going to do.

D

Dan Clancy28:04

I'm sure nobody knows.

J

Jelly28:06

Nobody knows.

D

Dan Clancy28:07

Yeah.

J

Jelly28:07

There's rumors that it's going to just be a single-player game for the first X amount of time.

D

Dan Clancy28:12

Yeah.

J

Jelly28:13

If that's the case, I think many creators are screwed. Um I I mean if they drop online what will it look like? Will it be like Roblox where everybody can create their own worlds? Um which I think has a lot of good opportunities for you know, small game developers right now. We're also content creators that have game development teams. Um

D

Dan Clancy28:36

Well, the interesting thing is I think the one thing we The The thing that was amazing about GTA 5 was um they built a platform that that allowed a tremendous amount of expressiveness creatively. Right? That's why you can still create GTA V um videos.

J

Jelly28:55

For sure.

D

Dan Clancy28:55

Right? Because and it really at some level the the platform allows you to creatively express yourself. And the one thing we know almost for sure is like the amount that GTA VI will allow you to creatively express ideas will be an order of magnitude more than GTA V.

J

Jelly29:14

Well, I hope so. We don't know for sure.

D

Dan Clancy29:16

It will. That's 13 years. It better be.

J

Jelly29:18

Yeah, that's that's true. That's true. But the world has also changed, you know. I think um back then you could maybe do a whole lot more things that maybe right now games are maybe more too careful of. I I don't know. I But it's definitely going to be crazy. Uh we know that. And the only thing that I am preparing right now is is what I just said. I'm preparing my team for it. So I want to optimize the team to make sure I if I need more people on on XYZ side of the job that I have people there to help me.

D

Dan Clancy29:45

Uh what about Now, what about role play? Have you done much role play?

J

Jelly29:48

I actually recently like about 6 months ago kind of I'm I'm rolling into role play. Let's call it like that. So yes, I've been doing role play. And that's so tough. I don't know. For content, it is so tough. Particularly video content. I actually think it's very good to stream role play.

D

Dan Clancy30:05

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

J

Jelly30:06

But for a content creator where we need a hook, we need a a solid ending. And actually the way we record content is we know the ending before we record it. Otherwise like we don't have a goal to work

D

Dan Clancy30:17

Right. Right. Right. Right. Right.

J

Jelly30:19

But for RP, somebody could just come up to me and take me hostage. And then for the next half hour I'm just stuck in this bank robbery that I don't really want to be at. So that I I struggle recording RP content.

D

Dan Clancy30:31

Yes.

J

Jelly30:32

So what I've done is I've actually launched my own RP server simply to record content. Uh so this is kind of like a content server where uh we we are able to record content and other other creators can come along, too. So, it's not just for me. Everybody's allowed to come and record content, but the the idea is everybody who's there role-playing gives the content creators a little bit of freedom, let's say, you know, to to

D

Dan Clancy30:57

Now, now when you role-play, what's what's your character? Are you

J

Jelly31:01

Uh well, I'm a criminal. Yeah, a criminal character, by the way. All right, guys. I'm a criminal character and uh I'm in what

D

Dan Clancy31:12

How old are you?

J

Jelly31:13

I'm myself, pretty much.

D

Dan Clancy31:14

Okay, you you yourself.

J

Jelly31:14

I have a fake last name.

D

Dan Clancy31:15

Okay, okay, but you're basically yourself as a criminal.

J

Jelly31:18

Uh yeah, yeah.

D

Dan Clancy31:19

Okay, okay, you know, I think some people

J

Jelly31:21

Some people are like, you know, but when I I've been role-play once and I'd love to do more role-play.

D

Dan Clancy31:26

It's so fun.

J

Jelly31:27

was a the name was I have to remember Nelson Jennings.

D

Dan Clancy31:33

Okay.

J

Jelly31:33

Cuz I was a washed-up country singer. That had to had used to be big, but I done the bottle a little too much and now I was doing little, you know, schlocky places.

D

Dan Clancy31:45

You're good at role-playing.

J

Jelly31:46

Yeah.

D

Dan Clancy31:48

Yeah, mine's like it depends on which server you're at and and and what how strict the role-playing is, but for me like for the content where it's very loose because it's just impossible otherwise.

J

Jelly31:57

Right.

D

Dan Clancy31:58

Yeah.

J

Jelly31:58

Right. I think that'll be one of the cuz of course on Twitch role-play is huge. And you know, one of the interesting thing is as you said, there's, you know, lots of uncertainty about The one thing we know is GTA 6 won't be all of it in terms of role-play and and and online and everything, right? The first version is always going to have more stuff to do. And so, it'll be interesting the ebbing back and flow between 6 and 5 and all that.

D

Dan Clancy32:22

Yeah, I mean, can you imagine what the next 5 years is going to look like? I mean, I know that many game companies are even delaying their game titles

J

Jelly32:30

Oh.

D

Dan Clancy32:31

because of GTA 6. I just like I don't know what's going on.

J

Jelly32:34

Yeah. I mean, they were doing that last year and then they're like, 'Oh, I don't know if we want to go out in the fall.'

D

Dan Clancy32:38

Oh my goodness.

J

Jelly32:39

Yeah.

D

Dan Clancy32:40

It's uh yeah, it's going to be amazing for the creator space.

J

Jelly32:43

Yeah.

D

Dan Clancy32:44

For the creator and the creative space that this this title, what they're doing is just incredible. I For my job, it's great.

J

Jelly32:50

Now, have you ever played around with IRL streaming or not?

D

Dan Clancy32:54

Uh let me think. No, I I mean I've done IRL streaming, but not with the whole like backpack kind of thing.

J

Jelly33:01

is my sense is you like the I mean there there's the one thing that's great, especially about GTA, is the narrative story that you're telling.

D

Dan Clancy33:11

Yeah.

J

Jelly33:12

Right? As opposed to just you, right? You're telling a story there.

D

Dan Clancy33:16

Yeah.

J

Jelly33:16

And so it's just very different when um uh um you know, it's all about you cuz it's not just about you, it's about the story. And IRL streaming is just a little different. Cuz it's all about you in the world.

D

Dan Clancy33:28

I actually enjoy watching it. It's very fun to watch to just see what what somebody else gets up to in their day.

J

Jelly33:34

Right.

D

Dan Clancy33:35

But to me, it always seems, especially if you're a big IRL streamer, you're just like a massive target walking around, you know, because people come up to you and they they want to get attention, so they might like troll you or I don't I don't know. I Like I always think of the safety elements and I'm just like, 'I don't know if I would want to do that.' You know, dox myself like that. I don't know.

J

Jelly33:55

That's what I said. No, there's some though. No, I don't I don't need to be that far out front.

D

Dan Clancy33:59

No, yeah.

J

Jelly34:00

Yeah. Yeah.

D

Dan Clancy34:01

I I never really share where I am or what I do like anyway, like

J

Jelly34:05

Which is also one of the differences with live streaming versus the the um creating video is you are putting yourself out there. Right? And for some people, that just comes natural. For other people, it may it's kind of uncomfortable. You know?

D

Dan Clancy34:19

Yeah, for sure. I mean, yeah. I I think live streaming has especially IRL streaming can have definitely some danger to it. Um and also you have like these swatting things going on sometimes on on on on on on gamers. And you know, so I don't know how it happens how they get docked I have no idea but you know I I've always just been tried to be super careful of of to show where I am or where I live even because I don't want anything like that to happen that's just

J

Jelly34:46

All right so talk now about are there how much do you like think about mistakes you've made worry about mistakes away you know are there any mistakes you've made that you said oh I wish I would have done this I wish

D

Dan Clancy35:01

Well actually I can reel it all the way back to what you mentioned I I don't know if we were live already but what I should have done at the time is is is taken more risk and actually spread out my audience over all the platforms where I can be creative and I should have done more of that because that would have turned out better for me but at the time I didn't feel like I had to and it was a fragile time so I didn't do it but realistically I should have spread my wings and and and tell my followers to follow me everywhere you know and I think that's probably the biggest mistake a creator can make right now is is is to not spread out like if you are blowing up blowing up right now on let's say Tik Tok like spread out immediately if you've got live viewers on Tik Tok right now tell them to go follow you on Twitch on on Instagram on YouTube and produce content for them everywhere and see what sticks because what even if this is working for you right now there's no guarantees that that is going to work for you in 6 months time or in a year's time so that's the biggest mistake I think like new creators can make or just creators in general I mean

J

Jelly36:16

All right well that actually is perfect okay because one of the questions I was asked is well what advice do you have for a new creator and you nailed it okay so Um, going to go ahead and wrap up the podcast right now because we're moving Twitch is moving over to uh um another of the things here. So, thank you for tuning in to the podcast. We stream it on Twitch with a live audience. We really appreciate

D

Dan Clancy36:37

Yeah, thank you, Dan.

J

Jelly36:38

being here. Join us on twitch.tv/twitch for the next show. Follow @twitchsocials. Rate and view. See you in chat. This has been great and move on over.

Dan Clancy talks to JellyYT | Let's Chat Podcast EP 7

About Dan Clancy