Hello and welcome to Let's Chat. Let's Chat is a live podcast where I talk with creators about live streaming and the ways that streamers and their community shape culture yesterday, today, and in the future.
I get on the game, have a good time, talk to chat, and just enjoy the moment. It's what the kids enjoy these days.
You cannot lay the next brick without the one that comes before it. I mean, it took me so much time. Time is the most valuable resource in the entire world, and I still want to collaborate with a lot of different communities and sort of be the bridge between them.
Welcome to Let's Chat. I'm Dan Clancy. I'm the CEO of Twitch, and today I'm joined by Clicks.
Hello. Thank you for having me.
It's great to be with Clicks. And Clicks and I met — well, we just went back. We think we met back in 2019.
When I was — I mean, I had to be — that was after you had — yeah, that was — no, that was right after you had your first, you know, when you finished, I think like 18.
Wow, that's — do you remember that?
Well, I did my homework. I did my homework. I did my homework for — I remember that after seven years, Clicks. Of course.
I mean, Clicks, you're burned into my memory.
The Fortnite World Cup. Everyone remembers all that. So, yes. But yeah, it was — I mean, I do remember how notable it was because you came out of — you know, you came out of nowhere.
Yeah. Yeah. 14-year-old. Oh my god. That was my breaking point.
Right. And so we met at the Streamer Bowl that year, and we haven't seen each other since.
No, you got to tap back into esports. You got to tap back into Fortnite especially.
I know. Well, and the interesting thing about — I was just telling him this, and it's funny as I see him now because back then there were a number of the teenager gamers that were there at the Streamer Bowl, and then there were a number of the, you know, be it Tfue or the 20-somethings. And it was funny because we had this dinner party, and then like all the teenagers just wanted to get out of the dinner party and get back to their rooms where they could game.
Yeah. Just play more Fortnite.
How long do I have to sit in this dinner party before I can get back to the room? Because it was set up so that you could game at the hotel.
Yeah. You guys had practice rooms. I remember I think it was me and Boouga.
Yes. Boouga was there, too.
Of us practicing in the practice rooms.
Yeah. That was — yes. It was just like, okay, can I leave this darn dinner now, whereas all the 20-somethings were getting drinks, chilling late.
Yes. It was very funny. Well, that goes to my first question, okay, which is you kind of grew up on Twitch, dude. It has been what, eight and a half years since I would say you blew up and grew the community, right?
Or like now I'm still streaming, still competing, but now people watch me have lived eight years of life with me, growing with me. It's —
So talk about your personality. How are you different than seven, eight years ago?
A lot different. I'll tell you that. From 13 years old to now, I definitely started off with like — I don't know if you've seen the clips when I was a kid, I was a toxic little — I was very toxic, but now it's like I'm still toxic. I still have that toxicity in me.
I mean, I'm a competitor. Yes, I should say that. I'm very competitive, but now it's more of like, okay, I'm more mature than what I was before.
I hope so. I hope so. Yeah.
But it also — my sense is, I mean, and this also comes with maturity, but there's something like kind of being confident in knowing who you are.
Because you know, when you're a 13 or 14-year-old gamer, you probably weren't the belle of the ball in high school, you know, in middle school.
I was a little loser. I was a loser. Not well.
Wait, wait. Let's be clear. You weren't a loser. You weren't one of the in kids, which is not saying you weren't a loser. Yeah. Right. That's the thing, but there's something about like, you know, are you one of the in kids? And the answer is no. You weren't one of the in kids in school, right? And there's something about growing up and feeling so confident in yourself.
Because of, you know, you get all these signals saying, 'No, you matter.'
Yeah. It didn't start like that though. When I was 13, I definitely was not confident.
Exactly. That's what I'm saying because I actually just did a keynote with JShock.
Okay. Who's a streamer, and it's an interesting story because he says that in high school, you know, he has this health problem. He's short and his hearing isn't good.
No. He says he was always confident. He was always outgoing. He was always just like — he played sports. He was always — and you can see how confident he is.
And we're just talking about how, you know, when you're in a tough situation and you're young, you tell yourself these things of what other people say and you start believing them. But then for you, for example, you didn't keep telling yourself that because as soon as you got big on Twitch —
You didn't need to be — I mean, I left that — I left my personal life definitely. I mean, I dropped out of school.
Like that's the story. When I was 13, I dropped out of school. So, I kind of left all that behind. And I — you're interesting. You were suddenly a cool kid.
I didn't think I was a cool kid.
But like I just loved going live and just talking to thousands of people every single day.
And there were thousands of people who were like, 'I want to be Clicks.'
That was insane. And I don't think I comprehended when I was —
No. No. You obviously don't comprehend.
But there's something about having thousands of people saying, 'I want to be like you.' Yeah. That then you start saying these things to yourself, and then eventually you believe yourself because what other people believe — what makes you feel confident is you telling yourself, 'Yes, I matter.'
Right. And it doesn't happen overnight. Yeah. But it's like you kept getting all these signals, and you're like, yeah, like I matter. Yeah. I'm one of the cool kids.
You know, and because now you're outgoing. You're, you know.
Yeah. No, you're right. Like I'm definitely confident in myself because of myself for the past eight years telling myself that all the decisions I make have been the best decisions for me and the community and longevity and so on and so forth.
So let's get to the — because you're this unique streamer in that there are a number of streamers that, you know, came into it from, you know, esports, but usually they're like, all right, I'll stream.
Yeah. Like remaining at the top in esports is freaking hard.
It is. And you know, financially streaming is a good — you know, it's kind of the opposite of regular sports. It's like regular sports you have to be at the top of the sport to be at the top of like SP, but as a streamer you can be at the top of the streaming world without being at the top of the sport. But you've decided, no, I want to stay at the top of the sport.
Yeah, dude, it's weird. I've had a lot of opportunities to like switch IRL streaming with my best friends and go to LA and put a camera and like hold it, but I think at an early age I realized that that's not who I am. Like I have a weird hunger and passion for like dopamine of actually winning Fortnite competitions and like getting that feeling and like feeling like that's inspiring other kids watching me to be able to do the same. So, it's weird because you're 100% right. Still, we just got back from Belgium and we got fourth in the world. And the feeling and the motivation that I have now where it's like, dude, I'm going for another four years. I'm gonna continue to grind it. I'm gonna continue to try to stay on top of competitive Fortnite for another four more years, which nobody has. There's not a 24-year-old pro right now. No, there's not a 25-year-old pro.
No, because what I wonder is it's probably the time. It's not that physically you can't be. It's not in some sports like let's take gymnastics, right? In gymnastics as you get bigger, it's tough to be the world's best at 25 physically.
But that's not the case. Like in other words, physically you can be the world's best at 25 or 30.
It seems it's more about the time and the focus and it just takes so much energy that eventually you just don't — it's tough to keep doing it.
Well, right now it's like the competitors that are the best in Fortnite are young. They're like 15. Like this kid Shark, he's disgusting. He's 15. But what you realize is like he's disgusting because how much time he's putting into the game. Like you don't really have too many responsibilities. Even when I was young, it's like I would go live, stream Fortnite, and just have fun. No responsibilities, nothing. But as you get older, you just start having more responsibilities, more life-changing things, decisions that you need to make, which what you're saying is like you're taking away time from competing and focusing on that. But if I really just make sure I'm focusing and putting as much time as I could into competing, I don't think — 25 is not old.
No, you know how it is in the gaming.
Yeah. At least for Fortnite, dude. If you're 20, I'm considered old.
They think I'm old out here.
I know. So you had a shot show emotions, right? And so you ended up — let's see, your best finish in the World Cups has been what?
Second. That's what I thought. You got second four years ago.
No, I got second last year.
Last year you got second.
I got — dude, I've gotten every single placement you can imagine, but first.
But first in a major. Right. Right. Right. And how much does that burn at you to get first?
It's weird. It's weird. I want to win really bad, but I don't think the second I win, everything's just gonna —
Right. It's not like, oh, I'm good. Now I'm happy.
Stop playing the — No, I think it's going to happen. It's 100% gonna happen. I'm gonna win it. I'm gonna win FNCS. But I think when I win one, I'm just going to be like, all right, let's win another one. Let's do it. Let's do it again. The feeling that I just got from that reciprocate.
How much is it — you know, there are certain sports, let's take tennis as an example. Okay. Like tennis, and golf is the same thing, that the world's best doesn't always win.
Right. The world's best doesn't always win. They win some but they don't always win. Were there other sports where it's kind of like, no, the world's best is gonna win, you know, like in boxing or something like that? Like, you know, in other words, when you have like the best boxer, they'll probably win, right?
