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Having a box directly like that, a TV set but totally online because I wanted to open a restaurant, to do a lot of... Hello. Hello. How are you? I'm fine. Are we good here or not? Yes, we're good. Well, I feel like this is going to be a great masterclass. Why am I telling you that today? Because I've already interviewed him several times and he's quite different. He's authentic, he's accessible as a top executive. You'll see, it's going to be a delight. Uh, quick question, do you know the meal voucher?
Well, his company is the world leader in meal vouchers, you knew that, but not only. And ah, well, here he is. Hello David. How are you? Very well. It's a pleasure to see you again, but it's a pleasure to be with you. Come, let me introduce you. Yeah. Yeah. And well, I present to you Bertrand Dumazy, CEO of Edenred. You can applaud him.
So while waiting for you, I told them that the meal voucher is Bertrand, but it's not just the meal voucher. No, we only talk about that, but there's more than that. Yes, there are plenty of other things. Right. What else is there in two words so that we... So in two words, Edenred is a platform that serves 60 million users worldwide and we offer solutions, indeed, that we call employee benefits. So there are meal vouchers, but in France you also know the day voucher or the mobility voucher, and we do that all over the world. So we are the world leader in employee benefits, but also... and it's a French company, and it's a French company at heart, even though our revenue in France is only 16%. But our second activity is professional mobility. So you can have Edenred energy cards, meaning you can fill up with fuel, bioethanol for example in Brazil, or you have access to 1 million electric charging stations all over Europe. Well, let's go, it's time for the masterclass with Bertrand Dumazy, the CEO of Edenred. Come on, let's sit down. Sit down, Bertrand.
So in real life, they never meet. It's normal. On one side, students who are focused on their training, and on the other, our greatest economic leaders who, well, who are at the head of large companies and travel a lot. Well, here on Public Sénat, it's our choice, our ambition. Every month, we bring them together, we bring you all together to exchange freely on the topics that our youth considers a priority. I should mention that Bertrand Dumazy doesn't know your questions, so for him, it will be a surprise. Yes! And I should mention that for the person who asks the most relevant question, as I say every time, at the end of the show, there are 10,000 meal vouchers. Let's applaud, offered by Bertrand Dumazy, with whom we're going to eat at the oyster bar and above all, we're going to have a feast. I hope we're going to have a feast in this masterclass. We heard... it's your lack of ambition that surprises me. David, why only 10,000? You see, ambition is important. Ambition. Bertrand, we're going to look at a photo. This photo... Oh my god, this photo is you at 27, so it was very recently at your graduation. We are in the United States and we are at Harvard.
Uh, already, hats off. In what way is it a moment to... Yes. In what way is it a moment that will remain engraved? Why did you choose this photo to start the show? It's a moment that remains engraved for several reasons. The first is that after 2 years of very intensive training, Harvard, in fact, it's 800 cases that you read in very different situations, I better understood what I didn't know. And so, understanding well, knowing well what you don't know, is the beginning of progress. And so, after studying 800 cases explaining different business situations with different angles in different countries, I better understood what I didn't know and so I developed a curiosity. That is to say, in the rest of my life, every time I face a situation, I know what I know and especially I know what I don't know. And knowing what I don't know, well, you get to work and with curiosity, and you build quickly without knowing. I think that was an absolutely decisive element for me. The second thing is that it gave me a lot of confidence. That is to say, you're in a prestigious university with students who are ultra-selected, who come from the four corners of the world, who all have different experiences, and at first you say to yourself, 'But I'm not going to make it, I'm just a little French guy, I speak English well but not as well as North Americans or Taiwanese, so it's not going to be easy.' And then, in fact, with discipline, step by step, you work, you learn the methods, you want to do well, you do things thoroughly, and you make it. And so that creates a capital of confidence in a demanding situation. And in fact, this capital of confidence remains for the rest of your life. After that, everything remains to be done. That is to say, unlike what can happen in many other countries, it's not because you have the diploma that all doors are open to you. You've proven something at the start. Very well. Now everything remains to be done.
Well, precisely, for us too, everything remains to be done because it's up to our student friends to question you, to ask you questions. They all have different backgrounds but they all have in common that they are engaged because they did their civic service or volunteering. And thank you every time for that and thank you to the Institut de l'Engagement which puts us in touch every month. You will be able to exchange freely with them around their concerns and their interests. These are really their questions. And we start with Céline. Uh, hello.
Hello Céline, nice to meet you. Uh, so I'm a student in a master's in sociology. So I have two questions for you. Uh, the first is that today we see many employees who rely on the meal voucher to manage their budget. The second is how can Edenred concretely help preserve purchasing power in a context where life is becoming more and more expensive?
The question of the meal voucher is a question of purchasing power and also a question of public health. Besides, in many countries, when I meet the Minister of Labor, it's often with the Minister of Health. And the questions we are asked are how you can develop the meal voucher even more since it's a measure of equity between those who are lucky enough to have a canteen, that is to say a prepared meal, and in fact, prepared food is always better for health than a snack or something you eat very quickly because there's a combination of two things. The first is taking the time to stop for lunch. Very important. And in addition to taking the time, trying to have lunch with something that has been properly prepared and balanced. So in fact, my job through the meal voucher is to allow the greatest number, and especially those who don't have the luck to have a company canteen, to have an equivalent. So it's a measure of equity.
So, it's true that meal vouchers are very useful. I myself benefit from them, but in many company structures, they don't necessarily accept them. There are restaurants that don't take the meal voucher because with a menu at 30 or 40 euros, it doesn't correspond to the food we have at work. I don't know how you do it, but when I was a student or a young worker, I never spent 30 euros on a meal. It was totally out of my budget. So you have price ranges for restaurateurs who say, 'I don't take it because that's not the clientele I have in my restaurant. I don't need that volume.' So we'll never manage to convince everyone because we bring volume and then the restaurateur has to say, 'I want it or I don't want it.'
There's a question from Mohamed now. Since you took office in 2015, we see that Edenred has profoundly transformed its business model, its strategy, and its international dimension. Uh, I would like to know what was, according to you, the most difficult moment of this transformation and what in your background or personal values allowed you to remain convinced and determined to carry out this change?
What allowed me to hold on during these delicate moments? Uh, in fact, I believe, and we come back to what I was saying before, it's a question of confidence. Confidence in others, confidence in the future, and confidence in oneself. That is to say, telling yourself, 'Come on, I'm not perfect, others aren't perfect, life won't fail to give me blows, but one step at a time. One step at a time, each day has enough trouble of its own.' And this, being from the north, I lived in a tough region. I was born in 1971, the industrial basins collapsed at the same time. So I saw at school, I saw what a very difficult economic situation was, but I also saw the ability of people to reinvent themselves, to move forward one small step at a time. We used to say in the north, 'One day at a time, each day has enough trouble of its own.' And so that situation probably always helped me by saying, 'There are worse things in the world, is it what we want it to be?' And so we're going to take the subjects one by one and we're going to deal with them and it will be fine.
Edenred's success is phenomenal, once again, revenue multiplied by 3 in 10 years, 3 billion euros. Is the hardest part, I'll use the mountain metaphor, reaching the summit or staying there? It must happen to you when you're hiking, you say, 'Come on, I'm going to go for that summit,' and then when you get close, you say, 'Shoot, there's an even bigger one behind,' and in fact, it never ends. And that's what's great, that is to say, I don't know if it's difficult, but I'm sure of one thing, is that success breeds success. So we've climbed a certain number of summits with Edenred and we're going to climb the others.
Edenred's ascent is absolutely impressive and incredible. Crowned, by the way, in mid-2023 by an entry into the Holy Grail, the CAC 40. You stayed there for, finally, as some will say, two and a half years. Is it a failure? How do you live it? Failure or not failure? And how did you live it personally as a leader?
So, in fact, I experienced it at the entry as at the exit. And we will be back. That is to say, a great joy and a great sadness in one night. So we learned we were entering the CAC 40 around 6 PM and so I was very happy from 6 PM to 8 AM the next morning, and then after that, it's fine, we move on to something else. That is to say, the CAC 40 is a stock market index which is in fact made up of the company's market value and liquidity, that is to say the number of shares that are bought and sold every day. So in fact, it's a consequence of the development work we did at Edenred. So I was very happy.
Yeah. I was very happy and very happy for all the employees when we entered the CAC 40, when we left it, which is an arithmetic calculation and actually quite ironic. That is to say, Edenred compared to the time we entered the CAC 40 is about 30% bigger and is worth three times less. But in fact, it's a market. You have 1 kg of carrots that's worth 10 euros one day and then a year later, that kilo of carrots might only be worth 3 euros. So when we left the CAC 40, I was sad when we learned it around 6 PM and the next morning at 8 AM, we move on to something else. It's just a stock market index. What's important is the number of people we employ, the number of clients we serve, the projects we have for development and innovation in the company.
You who have experienced French management with HEC and American management with Harvard, did you notice small differences between the two and especially now that you lead a large group, which management has shaped you the most?
When you're a North American boss, you say, 'Friends, we're at point A, we're going to go to point B.' The question of the collaborator is, 'OK boss, we're going to point B, but how much time are you giving us? What budget? And what are really the objectives of point B?' But there's no discussion about the fact that the boss said the objective is to go to point B. In France, we question. So in France, totally different. If you arrive, you say to French people, 'I'm the boss and we're going to go to point B right away,' you have to take the time to answer the questions that will follow. 1. Are you really the boss? 2. Even if you are the boss, do you have the right to define the objective as point B? 3. Is it a good objective? And 4. Wouldn't B prime or C be a better objective? And so, in fact, we French have a quest for meaning behind what leaders say that is much stronger. So you have to accept from the start to take the time to explain the rationale that makes point B a good objective.
Question from Marc-Antoine now. What is the reason that pushes you to get up every morning and with hindsight? Is it the same one that guided your steps at the beginning of your career?
So what makes me get up in the morning is to say we have 12 projects running and I'm going to try to work and create the conditions of temperature and pressure that will make these projects succeed as well as possible. I would say the project is the first thing that makes me get up in the morning. The second thing is the people I'm going to do it with. So I have the chance to work in a company that is in 45 countries, employs more than 100 different nationalities with people who have very different backgrounds but are essentially tech-savvy and with an average age of around 36. And so I'm the old geezer of the bunch at 53. And so I tell myself, I'm going to see Marc-Antoine on the hyper-segmentation project with artificial intelligence for my Brazilian clients. I know I'm going to have a good time because Marc-Antoine is going to teach me things and especially Marc-Antoine is going to tell me, 'Boss, you put 1 million euros on this, but it's 1.5 million that's needed and I'm going to explain why you need to put 500,000 more.' So I would say the second thing that makes me get up in the morning is meeting employees from all walks of life who are fulfilling themselves at Edenred.
Question from Fabien now.
Hello. Hello Fabien. So, I have a problem with values. That is to say, right now, I'm developing a small local news journal in La Rochelle, the city where I study, but at the same time, I'm in business school in La Rochelle and there, I'm really at the moment where I have to choose between either continuing my passion and doing my journal and informing locally, or joining large companies, big capital and sometimes, unfortunately, a bit changing my values, forgetting my values. And I wonder if you had to change anything to take on such roles?
The first thing is, I believe we always have a choice, always, but you have to create the conditions for that choice. For example, I have never lived beyond my means. I am very little in debt. Why? Because if there's a professional situation that doesn't please me anymore or if I'm asked to do things I don't want to do, then I'll be able to freely say no because I'm not trapped. So that's a choice. That is to say, and I'm not lecturing anyone, I say it with great humility, I always told myself, 'You will never live beyond your means because you always want to be free to be able to say no if you're led down a path that you don't want to follow, but maybe you won't have the choice financially speaking.' So, you also have to create the conditions for your freedom. So I believe we always have a choice, but you have to build the conditions for your freedom. That's the first thing. The second thing is that yes, for a business leader, it's a trauma to have to let people go. That is to say, I am a business leader to create jobs, not to destroy them. And announcing to someone who is losing their job is probably the worst news you can announce. That's actually why I demand that my managers announce the bad news if there is bad news and that they don't ask the HR department to do it for them. Because when you announce bad news to someone, the minimum you owe is a courageous and dignified attitude of explanation of what led to this difficult decision. And that's actually why, thirdly, I fight like a lion when I'm entrusted with an asset to develop it. I'm an absolute growth fanatic. Why? Because when there's growth, there are jobs, and there are jobs for those who are there and for others who will come to join us. So at Edenred, we started with 5,000, we are 13,000 today.
My question is more focused on the career plan. Uh, during your career, you have held many positions, whether internationally, in finance, or in consulting. So what advice would you give to Bertrand, 25, and to Driss, 24, as well?
Once again, there are 100,000 ways to do things and your way will be the best. But I can just share with you humbly the things I've learned. One, it's always better to be an actor than a spectator. So, be an actor. That is to say, if you want to do something, go for it with your teeth. I'll take an example. When I arrived at BCG, I said, 'Listen, what interests me is working in many different countries, launching in Italy, launching in England. And then I come back and I say, put me on the list to go to the United States.' And the staffing manager says, 'But no, you've already had the chance to go to England and Italy and then to the United States, there were 12 people ahead of you.' I said, 'No, but come on, put me on the list.' He says, 'No, but it's useless.' I said, 'If you put me on the list.' He puts me on the list. Two months later, they call me, they say, 'Would you be interested in going to Los Angeles for BCG?' I say, 'Well, of course, when?' Well, I say, 'Listen, it's Thursday, Sunday, I'm on the plane, Monday, I'm at work, actor.' And what happened? First client, Apple in Cupertino. So I'm in the Bay Area during the week and in Los Angeles on the weekend. A stroke of luck, but at the start, you have to be an actor. So the first thing I'd like to tell you is have confidence in yourself and be an actor and never a spectator. That's the first thing. Secondly, choose your jobs based on who will be your boss. No matter the industrial sector, no matter the mission, what matters is the person you're going to do it with. It's a person who says, 'You know what, Driss? Come on, let's do this together and I'm going to teach you things.' And learning without being paternalistic, that is to say, you learn by observing what the other does. You learn because the other explains and then you make your own way. Especially after, you have to do it your way. So, being an actor, choosing your boss well, and only choosing that, I think those are two absolutely essential things. And the third, there are always several paths, an easy one, a moderately easy one, and a difficult one. Always take the difficult one. Why? Because first, it will allow you to build confidence in yourself and second, because that's where you will learn the most.
Come on, let's continue with a series of questions. Yes or no. So I ask you a question and you answer yes or no. OK. Come on. Yes or no? You've brushed with death three times.
