Cathy Hughes Receives D.C. Key To The City, Reflects On Black Media, Power And Sacrifice.

Hey, rolling. How are you?

Doing great. So, I saw a bunch of the clips and posts last week regarding the key to the city, and you've gotten a ton of different accolades, but obviously it's always a lot different in the place where you've been for quite some time, and of course where WOL was grounded. Absolutely. I mean, such an honor not to have been born in this city, but then particularly after this many decades of being involved in the city, to be recognized for it, it's such an honor. The mayor only did six keys during her three-term administration, and so for me to be the only woman in the sixth key just adds a whole lot more to the incredible recognition. And I was so nervous. I'm looking at the clip that you're showing and I'm fidgeting and moving around. For one thing, this is Magic Wednesday, and I do it every Wednesday over in Ward 8 during the summertime, and we go anywhere from low-end 800 people to high-end about 3,000 with lines wrapped around. And so the noise was almost deafening. And I was like, how do we get them to listen? But when you have that many people, it's hard to get them to quiet down and listen, particularly when you're outside.

The Take It Back campaign, because during that time there was actually legislation that prohibited boycotting. Corporations had gotten to the right members of Congress and they had passed legislation that if you called for a boycott, you could be sued, you could be prosecuted. So we bought the newspaper every Sunday, but then we brought it back and served it to the front steps, to the front porch of the Washington Post magazine. The issue was a multi-million dollar revitalization of their magazine, and they had leaked information that the cover was going to be a black man. And so at that time, Cliff Alexander was a political candidate for mayor, John Thompson had the number one college basketball team in the country. There was just a long list of African-American men in this city that we just weren't guessing. And what we realized in the midst of all this is we were doing all this free publicity for the Washington Post magazine. The cover comes out and it's a drug dealer from New York City who does a lot of business in the nation's capital, and there's a full page photo of his girlfriend picking and cutting his toenails. I cannot still to this day believe that a publication as intellectually sophisticated as the Washington Post thought that that was going to fly. And it was very interesting because the Take It Back campaign was not just a black campaign. There were a lot of other members of the Washington DC reading community that were just appalled, insulted. So it started off the first issue had 142 pages of advertising. It was almost a small book. By the last week, which was 3 weeks before Christmas, when they literally said 'Okay, we will have to settle this,' they were down to eight pages right before Christmas from 142.

Well, you covered a lot of ground there because corporations are not committed to community activism. They are committed to profit. Most of the big corporations are publicly held corporations, and all they're interested in is shareholder enhancement. It's up to those of us in black media to embrace the community and make certain that they are represented, their opinions are heard, that the correct view of who we are and what we really want is shown. But I don't see that as ever even being discussed in a corporate board meeting at one of the big companies in America that make a lot of money off our community. But the key is you have to have a relationship with the community so that they understand that you really are looking out for their best interest. We often have great starts. One of the things that was so effective about the Washington Post protest, the Take It Back campaign, was that we didn't stop. The football season started and people told us, 'You're going to lose a lot of people.' And we did because they were at home watching the game. But it didn't matter how many of us that were there. We came consistently. There were storms. We just stood out there in the storm. We got wet, we got cold. It did not matter. We were going to see it through until they hollered uncle. And it's interesting because Ben Bradlee said that rather than retract the cover or apologize for that insulting cover, that he would rather run naked down Pennsylvania Avenue than submit to the pressure that we were applying. Well, Ben didn't quite run down the street naked, but he did run over to Fourth and 8th Street Northeast and apologize on the airwaves with his boss and publisher, Donald Graham. And because of that, there were jobs that were opened up. There were opportunities. The consumers in Washington DC, most people, as you know, Roland, don't realize the Washington Post is a local newspaper. You can't buy the Washington Post in New York City on the news stand or in Miami, Florida. As big as this reputation is, it is still a local publication. And the local residents who were the bread and butter of that newspaper, of that media outlet, made it clear that we were not going to give up until they changed their ways. And that's what unfortunately does not occur in present day times. And I think it's because you have a different set of priorities that are preached in churches. During those days, Minister Reverend Leon Sullivan in Philadelphia used to start off his sermons by saying, 'I hope you remembered your tennis shoes because as soon as this service is over, we are marching down to protest what's going on at Tasty Cakes.' And he did that every Sunday from the pulpit. We don't have that anymore. We don't have the activism. Our ministers are focused on other things. And I thought we had a pretty good start with Target, but then all of a sudden there were deals made and concessions made. And now at the Essence Festival the Fourth of July weekend, I'm told that Target was the main sponsor, that they were right up front.

Well, Dr. King died before he realized that there'd be a Roland Martin who would see to it that he would find a different way to present the truth and to organize the community. Kudos to you for that because you're not vulnerable. Those of us in traditional terrestrial radio, as they call it, have to be licensed by the Federal Communications Commission, and all that's being controlled by a group of individuals who want us to shut up and go away. One of the tragedies is you were talking earlier about consumer protection. There is no consumer protection. All of our protections are just conversations. And it's important I agree with the congresswoman as well as the young man when they said that's the only time we really get to hear the truth is when it's not just a show. And yes, it gets emotional because the reality is that these corporations and these agencies are in bed together, and so the agencies will ignore everybody except the president because they think they work for the president. So it doesn't matter that you're a US senator, it doesn't matter that you're a member of Congress, you can't find out what you need to find out for your constituents because they just don't respond. And there's no penalty, there's no retribution for them not responding. So I salute you for what you've done. I love, you know, there was a saying my mother used to love: necessity is the mother of invention. When one pathway is blocked, we're very creative, we're very inventive people, and we come up with ways where we can continue getting the message out and not have to be silenced, not have to be muted because of the threat of being eliminated. And that's the key. But my concern at this juncture is the lack of leadership. And I don't know whether or not you're going to cover it in your book. I can't wait for it to come out.

Yeah. Because Dr. King had so much opposition, particularly from the black church. Had it not been for young people, had it not been for high schoolers and college kids and some even junior high school kids who took themselves out of school and went to jail in order for the civil rights movement to be turned around. And right now, where is Dr. King's substitute? Where's the bench for black leadership? Who are they? And I'll just have to be honest with you, I am still raising sand about Al Green being put out of the State of the Union after I watch Marjorie Taylor Greene heckle Barack Obama every time, eight times, and never once was she removed from the chamber. Yet this brother speaks up and the rest of the Black Caucus stayed in there. I just can't get past that. And I'm really stuck on that they did not in mass support that brother and march out with him when he was put out. So at one time we could count on our elected officials to be our leadership, but I don't know if they went into a trance, if they were afraid, or what the hell happened in the chamber that evening, but they stayed and they watched that brother being physically escorted out of something where a white woman for eight times, eight years before had been allowed to do. And that's not leadership.

Absolutely.

Absolutely. And that's real. When you don't really own your license, you own the equipment in your radio station, but you really don't own the radio station. The federal government is in charge of who owns the radio stations, and they decide whether or not they're going to renew your license, they decide whether or not they're going to approve your mergers. But one of the things that I think has happened is so many of these major corporations who felt the pressure of the removal of the black dollar used the occasion of what the president is doing to cut back on the little bit of funding that they were doing. A classic example was the money that our community raised for Vice President Kamala Harris that white advertising agencies profited from not spending it with us.

Oh, I call the names out. The fake meetings we had, jumping through hoops, and oh, do this, change this, do this, and not a single dollar ever coming our way. It was nothing but traveling to New York for more meetings. And I had somebody tell me, 'Roland, are you going to the Cannes?' I'm like, 'Why in the hell am I going to fly to the south of France to meet with some agencies that won't meet with me in New York? It's going to cost me more money.'

Okay. And we don't seem to still understand that that's us. That is us. I'm sure you saw the report that came out about these high-end designer handbags, clothes, jewelry, the whole nine yards. The majority of their products are sold to people of color that cannot afford it. That's the really fascinating aspect of the research that came out. These were not celebrities. These were not athletes. These were common everyday working people who did not realize that they were the profit margin for these luxury items.

That's black self-hate.

It still can bring tears to my eyes when I really think about the feeling because you realized that he was one and only. That's been one of the ways that we have been contained for all of these centuries, actually, is because it's a one and only theory that they practice. And I realized that because young people had heard his message and had responded, other leaders were emerging. So it's kind of like the story of, they cut off the head and the rest of the body will die. I knew it was a sick feeling that just went through me that all this progress that we've been making, we're finally getting on the right page. Ministers who had been badmouthing him were coming around apologizing and getting on board. The word was spreading of what we could do. We were starting to be recognized, and then all of a sudden it was aborted, just gone. And I remember not believing it at first. I was one of those 'no that can't be true' under no circumstances. And then I guess the way I handled my grief was that I just assumed that there would be enough anger, there'd be enough force as a result of the assassination of Dr. King that there'd be a whole new population of leadership emerging. And we started going backwards, and we have continued going backwards. And ministers traded in the gospel of liberation for a gospel of success and visibility and profitability. The whole message is changed. I remember when the brother in Chicago whose name is escaping me now, he was Barack's minister, was punished.

Thank you. Jeremiah Wright was punished. Jeremiah was one of those voices during this time. So this is not the first time that we have been punished and have been victims of retaliation. That's one of the things I try to say to people sometimes when I'm out speaking and they get despondent and upset and sad, 'What in the world are we going to do?' Quincy Jones used to love to say that there was nothing new under the sun, particularly as it relates to music. But it's really true. We've been through this type of oppression before. It's more public now because of technology. There's more information out there, but this has not been the first time that there's been an attempt to silence us. And I just am hopeful that individuals such as yourself, Don Lemon, others, Joy Reid, others have found their voice in a protective avenue. And I'm just prayerful that the powers that be don't figure out how to shut that avenue. But I think as creative as we are as people, we will find a way. We will not only survive, we will thrive and we will continue to move forward because we don't have any other chance. Quite frankly, this is our country. We built this economy. We built this country, and we still do not understand the power that we possess as a unified community.

Amen.

I could remember when they would forget to thank the academy for the award. They'd be so busy preaching. They start giving liberation the minute they got on the stage. They were cursing out the government. They were calling people by name. Now they thank God, their mama, which is good. It's good to thank God. It's great to thank God. Good to thank your mama. But can you get around to talking about the issues that are confronting your people? There was a time you could not watch an award show without there being a speech. And then they would start competing. 'Yeah, well, that sounded good, but I'm going to sound better when I get up there to get my Grammy.' They were outdoing each other. They were putting their money where their mouths were. They were investing in various projects. Because everybody doesn't speak out. There's some celebrities who just don't have that type of personality. They go into character and that's their gift. But all of that has basically vanished. I know this is not going to be popular for me to say because he is the number one popular entertainer now, but I was so proud when Bad Bunny said that he would not ever perform again in America as long as this administration was in power. And along comes the Super Bowl, and guess what? He is right here in America performing at the biggest sporting event that he had. So I was like, 'Okay, now what changed your mind?' Because it couldn't have been the money. Because when you get to the status of a Bad Bunny, money is not an issue. Counting it is. Keeping up with it. That's the issue. It becomes that plentiful in the music and entertainment industry. But what changed his mind? It was such a beautiful unifying statement. He said he would only perform in Puerto Rico. And I can't tell you how many African-Americans I knew that went to Puerto Rico to see him perform out of support for this beautiful stand. But then we look up and he's dominating the Super Bowl. So it's not just a black issue. Because I thought, 'Oh yeah, he's going to really...' I mean, what, the immigration of black folks ain't being deported? Some of us would love to be returned to Ghana. Or Nigeria. Me, I wouldn't mind Tanzania. I still like the tall villages. But no, you're absolutely correct. It's not just that. And I guess some of them feel that it's not their responsibility. The politicians aren't doing it. The preachers aren't doing it. So why should I jeopardize and run the risk? I might upset someone. And then this culture that social media has developed, the kill culture, I guess they're called, or some of them are what we used to call in my day of activism, provocateurs. They're not really just people on social media expressing their opinions. They're being paid to disrupt and destroy. They're being paid to do that, and we go right along with it. But yeah, I've been very disappointed. I've stopped watching award shows, to be very honest with you, because I'm tired of hearing them up there thinking people I ain't never heard of, don't know who their names are anyway. And not one of them saying anything about immigration. Not one of them saying anything about who in the world is going to pick the crops. We are going to be very shortly faced with a massive food crisis. The black farmers are losing. They were promised this money, didn't get it, and they are up for foreclosure at an alarming rate. Where are our survival needs? Where are they going to come from? And nobody is saying a word. So yes, I totally agree with you that they're letting us down. I mean, Jane Fonda used to go to jail as frequently as Dick Gregory. Now, I don't know her responsibility.

Still looking good.

It would depend on whether the second question is black programmed or black-owned. There's a big difference.

Exactly. Black targeted, black-owned. For black-owned, because of the Roland Martins, because of the individuals that are coming forth now, I would give us an A minus only because we have so much more growth potential ahead of us. Now, the first question, can you make a shorter version of it for me? I'm long-winded by nature.

And we are how do—no, the answer is resounding no. Because we have the tradition of the go. As long as we can talk, we have the ability to tell our story. With technology, we now have the ability, new ways to get it out there. And I don't think that's anything that we're ever going to lose. We are a culture that is a lot more responsive to verbal messaging. Unfortunately, my generation, there used to be a saying that was horrible to say, but it used to be, if you wanted to keep a secret, put it in a book. If you wanted to hide something from black folks, well, that is changing, but we're always going to be discussing. The problem that I'm concerned about is the accuracy of what we are receiving. And how do we distinguish that which is a paid political announcement or just the plain unadulterated truth? Because one of the things that has been mastered by those in charge is, and it's so true, is what radio does. Radio programs your subconscious. It's repetition. And if you repeat it, all of us have experienced singing a song that when we heard it the first few times we hated it, and then all of a sudden you find yourself humming it or singing it because of this element of repetition. So when you take this incorrect information and you repeat it enough times, even the person repeating it starts to believe it because their ears hear it first before other ears hear it. That's the danger. But we will always have our go. We will always have our Roland Martins. We will always have those individuals that come hell or high water are not going to be stopped telling the truth, getting the information out there. And I'm really encouraged with the number of young people now who have basically gone a whole different route in terms of political realities and are coming up with new strategies and new directions to do things. I think we're going to go through some very challenging times, but I think that we don't have to recapture our voice. I think that we're just going to have to take the mute button off of it because it's still there.

Still alive. That's an easy one. 50 years from here, whether I'm here or not, I certainly pray that the company still is and still unapologetically in the black people business.

That I love my people and I was willing to take whatever knocks, bruises, penalties, punishment in order to make certain that they were okay. I did not mind being the sacrifice if it was going to give them opportunity.

Amen to that. I love you, Roland Martin.

Thank you. God bless.