Welcome to Fab Conversations. I am Sonu Bassin and FAB is families and business. This is a podcast where we have conversations about people, about business, about business people and of course about family businesses. Before I start my conversation, as always, I do urge you to subscribe to my podcast. The conversations are very interesting even though I say it myself. And do subscribe if you like the conversation. Press the like button. Also share it with people who you think will enjoy the conversations.
So to my guest today, Sunil D'souza is a man who looks totally at peace with the world. He has that zenlike calmness around him. But don't get fooled by all that mild and gentle manner. Sunil is a man with a razor sharp mind that works all the time at a furious pace. It's only that the people around him are oblivious to it. Now Sunil is an engineer MBA and has worked for the better part of his corporate life with multinationals, blue chip all of them, Siemens, Levers, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Whirlpool, and now he works with the bluest of the Indian multinational, the Tata Group. He's the managing director of Tata Consumer Products, a leading FMCG company that has household brands like Tata Tea, Tata Salt, Eight O'Clock Coffee, Tata Sampann, Himalayan water, I think Starbucks is also part of it, and much more. Now with so much on his plate, and no pun intended, he has taken time out for my podcast and thank you Sunil for this and looking forward to our conversation today and I hope you're doing well.
Yeah, thanks. Thanks. It's always a pleasure talking to you and happy to be part of the podcast.
Great. Great. So Sunil, you've worked all through in multinationals, right? And now you're with an Indian multinational. Has your leadership style evolved from one part of your career to now?
So, Sonu, leadership style has evolved but I don't think it is for moving from one organization to the other. Right.
No, no. One mindset to another, multinational to an Indian multinational, Indian company.
No, if anything I think it's evolved for the better. Because like I say, the big thing about the Tata group is it brings in all the ethics and professionalism that I've been used to in various organizations that I worked through across my career.
Plus the decision making of an Indian entrepreneur.
Yeah. I mean from that perspective the leadership style has evolved.
Because with all due respect across many multinationals, there is this what I call dirty word called alignment, right? So you've got to get people across time zones, across geographies, sell them the idea even for committing small amounts of capital or resources. Whereas here, you have to be convinced yourself. You've got to have very strong logic.
If you do so, then the chairman of the Tata group is very, very logical. The beauty is there is no grace. It's all black and white.
All logical. There's no may.
It's a yes or no. But you've got to be convinced about it. And you've got to have thought it through both from a strategy and execution perspective. And once you walk him through it, then it's all yours to run with. There's no one else to blame, right?
You can't kick your problem upstairs.
So, you've got to have a team of very, very capable people. You've got to have the right vision as a team. And then a team which can carry through your directives without your micromanagement. I think that those pieces have changed over the past few years.
Yeah. So you've been managing directors of multinationals, the India offices or the APAC offices. Right now you are the managing director of an Indian company based out of the headquarters and you have country heads or country managers reporting to you. So in a sense what you had been subjected to you are subjecting to your country managers. How are you avoiding all the pain that you went through when you had to go up to the headquarters and seek approval and you know people there don't understand etc etc. No, no, so you're absolutely right. So no and I'm extremely conscious of the fact that people shouldn't go through what I went through, right? Yeah. For example, whether it's the integration of different businesses that we acquire.
Where I try and do it in double quick time so there's no politics because I have seen it earlier the more you let it as two separate businesses don't integrate. Yeah, it's easier from a pain perspective but it's messy from a politics perspective.
Or for example I keep telling people listen every time I ask you a question and you've got this thing don't start making PPTs, right.
You can put down, you can just write down the points.
Right and let's just have a frank, honest conversation.
Or for example when you have decisions to make on launching products or pricing stuff or spending stuff.
I mean while there is a budget and there is a financial envelope, it is also about commercial acumen knowing what happens if you don't do it very quickly. So there's no multiple rounds of scenarios and do this and what if.
Right? You sit down across the table say that okay these are the three possible outcomes if what you do.
And basis that I mean all the people in the room take a decision.
Agree, disagree or agree to disagree but once you go out execute whatever we've discussed so.
Yeah and the other thing is bureaucracy right? I mean no meetings for the...
Masters of bureaucracy aren't they?
No, no, that was I think I am an ex startup person so I can say it with great conviction.
Uh let me say that's not what I have seen but.
Yeah I am out of it you are in it. So,
So like I said, if I need a decision from my boss, our meetings last 15 minutes, 20 minutes and I get the most I would say impactful decisions there, right? Or when as a team we need to decide we a lot of times we schedule 15 minutes meeting send a pre-read, we will have read it have a discussion around the points that you think you agree or disagree, take a decision and move on.
And I would dare say that is one of the reasons why at least at Tata Consumer we've delivered what you've delivered in terms of business results. More or less I mean people take responsibility for the business, right? Everyone is on the same vision of wanting to build the premier FMCG in the country for the Tata Group, blocking and tackling on a daily basis, being agile there, knowing that you could make mistakes.
But you will not be penalized for those mistakes.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, still keeping on that topic of now you dealing with multiple countries and country heads, etc., the Tata group has a very specific culture. It's not a written down culture. It's basically you live and breathe that culture. In all your interactions with all the people who work across different countries, which country do you think or the people in which country do you think come closest to the Tata culture?
Closest to the Tata culture would be India.
India. India. India is the headquarter. Anything you have so many, you have many countries reporting into you.
So other than India I would say the closest is the UK probably.
