Welcome to another episode of UpTo. 9 years ago, UpTo started as a live event series showcasing leaders who are as humble as they are successful. The humility piece is extremely important as we identify leaders who can inspire others. We try to focus our interviews on the non-business aspects of their lives. And in doing so, we have found there's a real thirst to explore their hearts and minds in atypical ways. Our host as always is Adam Kaufman. And joining Adam today is special guest Sheryl Palmer, chairman and CEO of Taylor Morrison Homebuilding Corporation. We'll be right back.
I'm grateful that Calfie Halter and Griswald has once again agreed to partner with us with offices in Ohio and Washington DC. This full-service national law firm focuses on all aspects of business in the law, including corporate and finance, intellectual property, and government relations. Let me be clear, I actually approach companies with whom I would like to partner. We just don't accept marketing dollars from anyone. I have been referring my CEO and entrepreneur friends to Calfie for years. I really believe in the firm. One of their notable practice areas is in mergers and acquisitions. And recently, for instance, I introduced a successful entrepreneur in the Midwest to Calfie when he told me that a European-based conglomerate wanted to buy his business. Calfie works with large corporations as well as privately held companies throughout the US and Canada and in Europe and Asia, too. So whether it's selling your own business or the more routine needs of creating your first will or anything in between, this firm can really do it all in terms of legal needs. Once again, the firm is Calfie Halter and Griswald, and you can find them at calfe.com or on the Upto Foundation website.
Our guest today leads one of the largest home builders in America, a company that helps tens of thousands of families find a place to call home each year and recently agreed to a momentous decision to be acquired by perhaps the most admired corporation in America, Berkshire Hathaway, for close to $7 billion. She first joined us seven years ago on the Upto podcast, talking then about leadership and culture and what she calls her shoes off approach to connecting with thousands of teammates across more than 17 divisions in more than 20 cities. The number of homes built by the company she leads has nearly doubled during her helm and the annual revenue is about four times greater than when she took charge. Wow, this is a growth leader. During this impressive career, today's guest has been recognized for dozens of industry and general business awards, all while remaining so humble and so authentic. That's why we invited her back. She is still the most humble leader I've ever known. Some of my favorites on her long list of awards include the 2025 CNBC changemaker list as one of the most innovative leaders in America. The Forbes 50 over 50 award may be a mixed blessing award but we are both over 50 which signifies long-term accomplishments. Glassdoor's top CEO list and also the very selective California homebuilders hall of fame. All of this while being an active member of her close family. I don't know how she does it all and with continued passion for some civic and philanthropic pursuits close to her heart. Today she's back for her second appearance on the Upto podcast at a pivotal moment in the company story and I would imagine in a new season in her own life. Sheryl Palmer, welcome to the UpTo podcast.
Wow, thank you. That was so nice, Adam. Thank you. It's so good to see you and it's so great to be on your podcast again. Thanks for inviting me back. I'm just so humbled by it.
Well, the first time we did this, you were in the Cleveland, Ohio studio with me. I'm now in DC and you're out on the West Coast going from point A to point B at an airport. So, thank you so much for carving out a little bit of your valuable time for us. Tell me, what have you been up to?
Well, like you said, it's been a very busy time and as you mentioned, we just recently about just over a month ago announced the deal where Berkshire Hathaway was acquiring Taylor Morrison. And you know, I think it was just an amazing amazing time for the organization. It's I think a very exciting time for our industry because what Berkshire's been able to do over many many decades is build an ecosystem like no other. And to have the opportunity to help them put all of their builder companies today with Taylor Morrison and become one of the I mean we are today but in a much we're going to double in size here overnight and that's just part of the story like I said when I really look at their ecosystem and everything that Berkshire has done in the space it's just I think it creates a story and an organization that's unmatched and one that really can't be replicated so I'm very excited that they chose Taylor Morrison to do this and it's a double down on of confidence on the industry and how important
and on you. You're being humble.
Well, I think how important housing is in our country and in our economy and even though it's been a bumpy, you know, couple of years, I think the future's very bright.
Yeah. You actually touched on before I rudely interrupted. You did touch on something I planned on bringing up is, you know, there's so many leaders who listen to our program who build some sort of widget and they try to sell lots of that widget and it they're proud of whatever they sell, whether it's microphones or paint. But I mean, home ownership is a different type of widget. It's a symbolic greater than the actual product you're building that they're buying. How do you digest like the meaning of the first home purchase? I'm sure that's one of your favorite aspects of it is to see the couple buy their first home. It's much more than a normal widget. I'm maybe saying in an inarticulate way.
No, no. I think you've said it quite perfectly. It's a very exciting time for a family or an individual and you know if you really think about it what we're providing and it's different levels I understand that based on the consumer group but we're talking about shelter Adam and for some it might be you know rent and we have a rental brand Yardley but for most of what we do like you said it when when someone gets to achieve home ownership especially in the environment we're in today where costs have run and just life is more expensive and it's more than just a house. It's more than you know it's truly a home. It's a place where you create memories. And what we have to do as leaders and as team members across our organization is make sure that we don't lose sight of just how big of a deal this is. I mean, this is where you have memories for life. I think about those meaningful times around the dining room table or family celebrations. Later in life when I'm talking to my children or my grandchildren, I'm talking about things that happened and it's always about where you work or during COVID you know the bubble that people lived in and the network within neighborhoods that love that safety sense of community and camaraderie. It's a big deal and I think if we can stay grounded on what sense of community really means it's so much more than the house or the home. It's almost like a cause. There's like a altruistic mentality a little bit to what you're saying. I feel like, and I tell people I mentor, buying a home is, I think, the hardest decision to make because some people would think marriage, but marriage is when you're in love and the other person loves you, it's like a no-brainer. We're going to get married. But a house, there's so many choices. There's so many options. There's factors like rent or buy. It's paralysis of choice almost and that's not at all a criticism of your industry. My point is like it's such a hard decision to make and you're in the middle of that
And it's not like a decision, well, if I get it wrong, we'll just change it. You know, it's harder than that. And it's a big deal. You know, you talked about the first-time buyer and we're
we're fortunate enough, Adam, to sell to all consumer groups, but I have an equal fondness love for each of our consumers. But then I think about our resort lifestyle or some people call it 55 or older. Maybe it's real close to my heart or active adult, but these are folks that, you know, they've kind of raised their children and now they really just want that level of belonging to something more important, you know, than their career. It's that final I don't want to not in a negative way, but that final chapter where you can just it's all about what you want. And I look at what the lifestyle that our residents live in these communities and it's like they're going to summer camp every single day when they wake up. And so there's just joy across all consumers. It might be a family that's moving to their second home because they just had a child or a second child or school is now an important part of the decision. But it all does come down to community and the house is important, but we find interestingly enough in well more than half of our shoppers that the community is as important as the house. And I think that says something about society and how important relationships and belonging really is. And certainly with all the time we've spent together at Path North, I think you have a real appreciation of what that does for the soul.
For sure. And I think that's one of the internal character traits that you have that probably the acquiring company Berkshire Hathaway wanted to keep. I mean, you're staying on. You're going to continue to lead with this evident passion, the company that's being acquired. Has your day-to-day life changed that much yet or will that occur more so after everything is finalized?
Well, it's right now about understanding the Berkshire organization and their ecosystem. In fact, I'm heading back to Scottsdale today and meeting some of the leaders that are coming to Scottsdale so we can bring our leadership teams together because they have about a dozen homebuilders that are going to become part of Taylor Morrison and I happen we've just gotten through some of the regulatory stuff that allows me to start to foster those relationships in folks. So the fun just is about to begin and get so excited because they have amazing businesses across the country.
Will you be responsible for those other units of Berkshire?
All of the home building what they call site builders. So individual they were private builders that Berkshire acquired. This is Berkshire's first public home builder. But what they want is they appreciate the impact of scale and bringing all of these organizations together. But so I'm excited about the possibilities. I probably don't even know them all. First it's about understanding all the team members, those businesses, our portfolio. Some of our markets are overlapping. Many of our markets for Taylor Morrison will be new and many of the markets for Berkshire are will be new. So it's actually the best of both worlds but we'll be doubling and so it's a big business. It's exciting and to have that kind of scale to be able to help Americans into home ownership and so much of their business is that first time to your earlier question. And so I just don't think there's a better time.
I'm going backwards in my mind a little bit even before you were on our program which can you believe was seven years ago. I cannot believe it. Seven years we were sitting in a little booth.
It was yesterday. I know it was more than seven years ago and it was before that that we were hiking together at a conference in Chamonix France
and that's when you were talking about the pros and cons of being public versus being private. There was a third person with us who was a large private company and you've achieved what most of the founders I'm around want to achieve. You went public. You rang the bell. That's the dream. That's the promised land for most CEOs, most founders. So, you've done that. You've been there, done that. Now, you're going private again.
again. Yeah. But clearly, you're choosing to. So, how do you think your time as a public company CEO is going to help you as a privately-owned organization? Will you be a better leader because of that experience?
I think every experience we have in our career helps mold who we are and I think the more data intake we get just allows us to make better decisions. But you know I have had such a blessed career of working for a very large private organization. I started with a public with Dell Webb and then went to a private with Blackhawk where I was really very very involved in that active adult at 55 plus and then back to P.U. where they acquired Dell Webb. So I've seen both sides and then Taylor Morrison as you'll remember it was actually Morrison Homes when I joined. It wasn't until I merged and I changed the name but that was a private of a public UK company. So we were a private sub. That was really the best of both worlds. I was on the board of the public UK company, but I got the benefit of running private. And if you think about Berkshire, that's the same. We will be part of a public company. Berkshire's public, but the materiality of our individual businesses don't reach a level that we report. So, all those reporting obligations go away. And get to make the decisions, all the decisions for the right reasons. I remember naively Adam touring the country right after we went public and said your life won't change at all and I really thought so I was just wrong because as you're part of a public company and you give information out to shareholders your credibility depends on it and so sometimes you're faced with making short-term decisions versus long term has a 10, 20, 30 year horizon so you're making the right decisions all the time. But you still maintain the responsibility of ultimately every decision we make is got to be right for our shareholders, all of our stakeholders, our team members and our public shareholders. So, I think I'm in a unique perspective because I feel like I've seen private, public, international, and now under Greg Abel who just took over from Warren Buffett. I mean, I'm just working with people that I could have never imagined. It's like bucket list.
Wow. It is probably something you wonder, how did I get here? Like, how is this all happening to me?
Well, it's deserving. You mentioned at the beginning of that commentary that all the things we experience accumulate our learning. I remember you also worked for McDonald's at one point early in your career, right?
Yeah. So, what does something like that early on teach you as you now look back a few decades?
I mean, that was an early part of like I know our youngest that was his first job when he was 14 or 15 or something. Oh, it was your first job. Okay. First job except for babysitting. That was my first real job. A real paycheck. You got to put in the bank, right? And I was 16 when I started or 15 or 16. And then I left, went away to college and then started again. And then I ended up in the corporate office of McDonald's. And what was so unique because as you reminded us, we're well I'm well over 50. This is when Ray Kroc was still alive and in the office every day and he lived in San Diego. So I got to see Ray every day. And I won't bore you with the details, but what I will tell you is that one of my greatest life lessons came in a meeting that Ray Kroc walked into and I was I think the ripe old age of 20 and I had this big marketing responsibility for all of San Diego and he came in and you know this is most people might not even know what I'm talking about Adam, but this is in the days of overheads overhead projector existing. And he went to the back of the room to like listen. But he couldn't see my slides and he starts, you know, this is my first presentation ever. It was a big national meeting. I got your stomach's churning. Yeah. And I'm up there as he wheels in and he can't see and he's like, 'Can you I can't see that.' So, I'm like trying to turn the dial. Remember that? And I still can't see it. And I'm trying to move the machine to make it and my boss in the front just like, 'Turn off the machine. Just turn.' So, I did. And I had to give my presentation by heart because I no longer had my materials. And my level of preparedness for meetings and any kind of AV and having at least one backup. And the amount of rehearsals we do for earnings calls and board meetings, my poor team has suffered the consequences of that day for the last 40 years. No, but that's a perfect example of the learning accumulation over time that stuck with you and it plays out now as you prepare your executive team for the reports and the meetings and so forth. So, I didn't realize, Cheryl, that you had Ray Kroc in your orbit way back then and now yours was the first acquisition post Warren Buffett. You're around some serious legends of American business. I'm gonna stay close to you. Can I stay close to you? Just keep me somewhere in your orbit.
You know, Adam, I've just been so blessed. I really have. I've had the opportunity to work with just some brilliant leaders. I've learned so much from them in restaurants, in home building, and just in life. And the funny thing without being overly sappy is with all the great leaders that I've learned from and I like I said, just unbelievable. My dad probably had the greatest influence on who I am as a person and who you are as a person. I think shows up on who you are as a leader.
So speaking of your father, like what type of family environment did you grow up in? Was it expected you'd go into business? Could you do whatever you wanted to do? Were your parents just hands off on career stuff or some families have real specific expectations.
