Welcome to Unsheltered Conversations, the podcast from Homemade America, where we explore real solutions, real partnerships, and real stories behind the work to build a future without homelessness. I'm Scott Larson, CEO of Homemade America. Today's episode is a very special one recorded in recognition of Women in Construction Week established by the National Association of Women in Construction, otherwise known as NAWIC. We're focusing on leadership, opportunity, and impact and the critical role that women play across every level of the building industry. I'm honored to be joined today by Sheryl Palmer, Chairman and CEO of Taylor Morrison, a nationally respected leader in the home building industry and a champion for innovation and culture in construction and a valued member of the Homemade America board of directors. Sheryl, welcome and thank you for being part of today's conversation.
Thank you for having me. So appreciate the opportunity.
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to diving into a lot of different aspects of things, but Sheryl, I'd love for you to start kind of at the beginning of your journey because many people clearly know of you as the CEO of Taylor Morrison and an industry leader, but maybe they don't know how you first entered into the building industry and what drew you to this field initially.
Well, you know, it's such an interesting question, Scott, because I certainly didn't set out thinking that I would ever have a career in home building. In fact, I went to school to be a special education teacher. But while I was going to school, I actually started my career on the marketing and customer experience side of business. Spent a lot of time in McDonald's while I was going to school in marketing. But what really drew me into this industry was the human element. The idea that, and this is going to sound so silly, you know, when I was at McDonald's, it wasn't about the hamburgers. It was about an experience for children. And that's what we used to get people into our stores. When I really think about home building and when I was first attracted to it, it's the idea that we weren't just selling a product that we were shaping the places of where people were in their lives. And once I got close to it and I really started to experience, I just fell in love with the placemaking, the creativity, the problem solving, the purpose of what we do. When I started, I don't think I knew that it was going to be a long-term path, but I was very blessed. I had leaders that opened doors, gave me responsibility probably well before I was ready. I talk a lot about the fake it till you make it, and just encouraged me to stretch. And I think the biggest surprise, and it happened at a certain point, it wasn't always this way, was just how collaborative the industry is. From the outside, construction looks very tactical, but on the inside it's actually pretty relationship driven, you know.
And Sheryl, I see that time and time again in the work that we do with Homemade, that collaborative nature. I have always loved construction and I fell in love with it even more as I got into it as you did. And there are so many surprises because you're right, people view it as a very tangible, tactile thing. But it is all about relationships and all about creating community within a company as well as in the homes that people build.
You know, so as is apparent to most people, you know, the building industry has been historically male-dominated both in the field and in the companies. What was it like for you coming into this industry as a woman and as a potential leader in this male-dominated field?
You know, if I were to be honest about it, Scott, I think there were absolutely moments where I felt the expectations were different. I had to prove myself differently. As I've aged and become more mature, I appreciate I don't think it was necessarily because people were intentionally putting up barriers, but because the industry simply wasn't used to seeing women in many, many roles. And so they really didn't know how to treat someone at the table, particularly once I got into the leadership ranks. So sometimes I think the expectations were lower because I was just a woman and obviously I wouldn't be able to do that. And then I think other times I think they were higher because I had to prove myself like that I really deserve to be there. Both of those extremes can honestly be very challenging. I think the invisible, because I'm such a, I am who I am. I'm very transparent. I think the invisible barriers were probably the hardest for me. Being the only female in the room, not having those natural relationships, peer networks, or maybe sometimes even feeling like I was walking a tightrope between having answers, am I supposed to be assertive? Am I supposed to be aggressive, but I want to make sure they like me? And I've always said, you've probably heard me say it before, you know, it's really hard to be your best when you're trying to be someone different because I always felt like I'm just me and I have to be me. But through all of that, kind of like your earlier question, what kept me here was the actual work. And I knew I could, like a game of double fist whack them, just work my way through those relationships because I did really respect and love people. And I loved the impact we could make and I had wonderful mentors, both men and women. They just kept pushing me forward, you know.
And that's the thing I see that the general community doesn't see in this industry is those types of people, people that are entrepreneurial, they're risk takers, but they build into their people and obviously they built into you and kept you at the table and you stayed at the table versus retreating to another field that might have been more aligned with maybe a female audience.
Well, I actually went to school to be a special ed teacher.
So, I mean, this could not be more different than the career I had planned, but I wouldn't change even through those difficult days or those difficult meetings or the days I felt I was fighting for a position. I wouldn't change a day if I really would.
And that is such an encouragement to hear because so many people are in the throes of having to make those types of decisions.
Just don't lose who you are.
So, in focusing on Taylor Morrison, you've built a company that year over year is awarded with operational excellence and the community admires the work that you do and you've built a culture of leadership. How have you done that internally? How have you looked at the people that you've treated and developed and trusted inside your organization and how has your specific leadership style, being who you are and being very transparent, shaped the experience for others within Taylor Morrison?
It's a really good question because I think we all evolve as people in our personal and professional life, but I think so it probably changes over time, Scott. But I think my leadership philosophy has always been rooted, and probably this is from my dad, but it's been rooted in trust, transparency, and I hope empowerment of folks. And probably that piece came because I felt it was so important as I was, you know, growing in my career. But when you get the person who didn't always feel included in the group, you do become very intentional about creating an environment where your team can feel seen and they can feel valued. And building strong teams I think in a high pressure industry starts with absolute clarity. Clarity of purpose, clarity of expectations, clarity of communication and then again communicating. You know, on a construction site leadership might look like safety, respect and accountability. In the boardroom it looks different. It's probably all...
It looks very different. Yes.
Right. I have to exist in all of those worlds. And I think in a boardroom for me, it's about alignment. It's about courage. It's about strategic thinking. Even though they're so different in both places, it's still about people and how you interact. And so to your question about, you know, how do I work with people? I think creating opportunity for our team is something I take so personally. I want people to grow faster than they may have thought possible, but they have to want it. I can't want it for them.
You can't make it happen for them.
No, they have to want it. But then I have to be there to help facilitate it. And that means giving people the opportunity to stretch maybe beyond our comfort zone, supporting them when they fall down and celebrating their wins like out loud with everybody so they start to build that real confidence. To me, that's what leadership's about.
Absolutely. And then recognizing where those opportunities are with individuals and maybe where some individuals might need some course correction because they may not be seeing the culture and the development internally within the company.
You know, at Taylor Morrison, one of our mantras is everyone is the CEO of their own career.
It's so important because it doesn't matter what your role is. It's equally important to this organization and what you want to do. Not everybody has to want to aspire to be the CEO of a public company, but even if you want to be the CEO of a sales team or you want to be your best CEO to be a salesperson, it just doesn't matter. But we want you to know that we care and we're interested in what's important. We kind of blew up years ago the whole performance review thing and what we call them is gift conversations. And so it's just these constant conversations in real time to make sure that we're facilitating. That's hard to be the CEO of your career.
Yeah. Well, and whether or not you're in customer success and working with your homeowners, they need to have that similar type of empowerment and relationships at all levels. That's amazing. So when we look at and talk about women in construction as a whole, we're not just talking about executive leadership. We're talking about various field roles, project management, design, trades, finance, operations, even within the supplier network. And Homemade America and our affiliates have very strategically minded women leading our affiliates and many of our board members across the country coming from companies like yours are in that role. So, what's your perspective about seeing the most meaningful growth for women participating in the industry? Where do you see us progressing and where do you see the opportunities that are before people?
Yeah, it's such an important topic because I do believe we're seeing real honest momentum in many areas. I think about project management, design, even in land planning, finance, and more recently in operations. And we're starting, I mean you know this, the work we're doing with Building Talent Foundation, we're starting to finally see more women enter the trade which I think is incredibly encouraging. And so progress is happening but having said that it is probably a little slower than we'd all like it and I still think we need to normalize women in field leadership and ensure that they have the same opportunities, the same access to training, to mentorship, to promotions, any sort of advancement because I do believe that a misconception that still lingers is that construction is all purely physical work which is I think why initially women don't think about our industry as one of so many opportunities. But in reality, yeah, it's maybe highly technical but it's really highly collaborative and I think there's pathways for every skill set to be successful in our industry. So I just think we have to keep spreading the word but it's certainly if I think back 5, 10, 20 years it's a completely different place. Our organization is almost 50/50 now is the distribution in all of the different disciplines. Exactly where it should be? Probably not yet.
Not yet. Well, what would you say to a young woman or a student, you mentioned Building Talent Foundation and there's all kinds of trade schools and opportunities out there across the country that has never considered construction or home building as a career path. What would you say to that young adult, that young woman?
Well, I think I would tell her that this industry is so full of opportunity and impact that you can make. Innovation is so necessary, although it's been slow to the tape. And that her voice, if she's really a good thinker and thinking about how I can have an impact, is really needed. And if she likes solving problems, working with people, working as part of a team, and then really being able to experience the tangible results of her work, that I don't think there's a better place to build her career. I do think though to your early part of your question, Scott, that schools and companies probably need to do a better job exposing students and interested candidates to the breadth of the roles that are available in our industry and once again that this is not just all about physical labor. We need to show them that construction just isn't hard hats and job sites. That it's technology and sustainability and design and analytics, leadership. And skills like communication, critical thinking, creativity, collaboration, all those skills can have such a fabulous career in our industry.
And it's one of those things that once they lock into it, like we were talking earlier, it's an industry that they can fall in love with.
Yes. Oh, there's nothing, I don't think there's anything as good as seeing the fruits of your labor. Like if you're in the field, if you're in land going from raw dirt to building a community, you know, a thing that reminds me of Scott is in a prior life like 40 years ago when I built active adult communities, I was invited back, I don't know, it's probably 10, 15 years ago already, like to the 20 year anniversary. And they were old. I was young back then, so they were old when I built the community. They were really older when they invited me back for their 20th anniversary. But truly to see that people that moved there in their 50s and now were in their 70s and 80s and some of them with oxygen and it made their life better.
