And we turn now to Vermont independent Senator Bernie Sanders who joins us from Burlington. Good morning to you, Senator Sanders.
We are 86 days away from the midterms. Um Tuesday in Minnesota, progressive candidate Peggy Flanagan, the current Lieutenant Governor who you have endorsed is taking on a more moderate candidate Angie Craig. Do you think this is going to be a similar dynamic to Michigan where this was a tight race?
I think it's going to be a tight race. I hope very much that Peggy wins. I think what we're seeing in Minnesota, Margaret, in Michigan and all across this country is that people understand that we're living with an economy that is rigged. Uh you have working families, 60% of our people living paycheck to paycheck. People can't afford groceries, housing, healthcare, basic necessities of life. And at the same time, they're seeing the richest people in this country become even richer. People are tired of the status quo politics and establishment policies. They want real change. And Peggy Flanagan is about bringing about real change, standing up to the big money interest. There is a reason why the super PACs and the billionaires are flooding Minnesota with all kinds of money. Same thing as Michigan. They don't want somebody to stand up for the working class in Minnesota.
But you still are confident Flanagan's going to pull this off.
You are confident Flanagan will win?
No, I'm not confident. I think it's going to be a very, very close race.
I think she is being outspent 7 to 1. And under those circumstances, it's tough for anybody to win. But she has a good ground game. I know she has a lot of grassroots support. And I'll do everything that I can to see that she does win.
Okay. Um I know that you haven't gotten involved in many governor's races with the exception of Maine, but Democratic socialist Franchesca Hong in Wisconsin is expected to win her Democratic primary. Um there's been some attention to some of her social media posts recently, but she has this platform of free child care, state-run grocery stores, more health care subsidies. She wants to raise income taxes on millionaires. Some of this does seem to align with your platform. So, I'm wondering, you know, why don't you support her? Is some of what she supports too extreme for you?
No. Raising taxes on the rich, making sure that everybody in Wisconsin or America has healthcare as a right? Sounds quite reasonable to me. I just look, we have a limited number of races that we can be involved in. Most of my focus on is getting people elected to the United States Senate, getting people elected to the House of Representatives. So with one exception, we have not been involved in a governor's race and that's somebody who I've known in Maine for many, many years.
Who is now running for the Senate in Maine.
That's right. That's right. That's right.
Um there was in Michigan this historic turnout, but the race was closer than many had expected. Um Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, former public health official, he did win by just one point. Since that time, President Trump has said he's happy that he won because he's going to be an easier candidate to defeat, basically is what he's implying. Um and The Economist has polling showing the party's victory probability has fallen to 48%, putting Democrats' chances of controlling the Senate at 49%. Obviously, you want to resist that if that projection, what's your strategy on a coalition here?
Well, I look at that analysis a little bit differently, Margaret. In Michigan, in my view, Abdul's victory was one of the most extraordinary victories in modern political history. You tell me, have you ever heard of a candidate winning who was outspent 9 to 1? $60 million in billionaire-funded super PAC money came into that race, half from AIPAC, and yet he managed to win. Now I think what we are seeing all over this country from coast to coast is that working people are sick and tired of being the only major country on earth that does not guarantee health care to all people as a human right. They're sick and tired of massive income and wealth inequality. Who believes? Now I know we don't discuss this much in Congress or in the media. But nobody that I know thinks it makes sense that one man in America today, Mr. Musk, owns more wealth than the bottom half of American society. Who believes that we should sustain and maintain a corrupt campaign finance system where billionaires are undermining American democracy? The reason that we're going to win is people, whether conservative or Democrat, tired of the status quo and of the massive levels of inequality that exists right now.
You have written a letter that was shared with us to Democratic leaders in Congress and the DNC calling for public funding of elections and for the party to prohibit political action committees from participating in primary races. I understand your principled argument here. However, Democrats have a financial resource problem that is very real as compared to Republicans and their war chest. Why would the party disarm?
We're not talking about disarmment. We're talking about within the Democratic primary, not in the general election. The campaign finance system today is corrupt. In Michigan, what you had is AIPAC spending $30 million in the Democratic primary trying to defeat Abdul. They lost. And now they're saying, 'We're going to support this guy Rogers who was a Republican.' So what you are seeing is it doesn't matter whether you're a Democrat, Republican, these special interests, it's not just AIPAC, it's the AI people, it's crypto, they will take over the primaries and try to get their point of view through, get their special interest accomplished regardless of which party is. So to me it is insane that the Democrats would allow somebody to come in, an entity to come in that will then if they lose go into the other party.
Okay, we need to talk more about this, but I have to pay our bills here and take a break. So, please stay with us, Senator Sanders. We'll be right back.
Welcome back to Face the Nation. We return now to our conversation with Senator Bernie Sanders. Senator, before the break, we were talking about your concern about super PACs and their involvement in primaries. Uh you said you don't want Democrats to unilaterally disarm. Just to clarify, you highlighted $60 million poured into Michigan to defeat Dr. El-Sayed. Half of it came from AIPAC. Um they are now saying they're going to support the Republican in the general. Um which you also pointed out. Are you okay with Democrats accepting PAC money in the general but not in the primary?
Look, in the world that we live in until we get rid of Citizens United and get rid of super PACs and move to public funding of elections, that is the reality. You can't allow Democratic candidates to be outspent 50 to 1. But it is a corrupt campaign finance system and Democrats can take charge of what takes place within their own primaries. Right now, general election can't, but within primaries, Democrats can get super PACs out. That's what they should do.
I want to focus in on AIPAC in particular because Dr. El-Sayed campaigned on this platform of cutting unconditional aid to countries not just Israel. He said Egypt, the country his parents immigrated from, cut it to Jordan, cut it to Pakistan, cut it to Saudi Arabia. Um he listed a number of countries and Israel. His mention of Israel and the war in Gaza has drawn a lot of criticism. President Trump said it's hate of Jewish people. Um when you speak, I know you are very specific in referring to the right-wing government of Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister. Would you advise Dr. El-Sayed and other progressive candidates to speak in a way that doesn't invite as much criticism?
Look, I think Abdul has run a brilliant campaign and he's more than capable of making his own political judgments. But I think Margaret, all over the country, people are deeply concerned that when we have so many problems at home, we have people sleeping out in the streets. People can't afford health care. We are spending billions and billions of dollars on the right-wing extremist Netanyahu government which has done horrific things to the Palestinian people. Uh people, many people, experts, including myself, consider what's going on there as a genocide. And I think whether you're a Democrat, Republican, conservative, progressive, we don't think that we should be continuing to fund an extremist government like that.
Some MAGA candidates also make that argument, but this is a real attack line being focused on Dr. El-Sayed in particular.
Well, let's be clear. I mean, from Trump on down, you know, you have Trump who is in many ways an authoritarian type and he is going to go after El-Sayed because, you know, for racist reasons. I think their first announcement after Abdul won is he is a Muslim and we're all supposed to hate Muslims. You know, these guys have nothing to say about the major crises facing our country. All they could do is appeal to racism. We're communist, you know, all kinds of nonsense like that. But I think that at the end of the day, the people of Michigan understand that the status quo is not working. We need a candidate like Abdul who has the guts to stand up for working-class families. This guy wrote a book. He's a doctor on Medicare for all. The current health care system is broken. We got to guarantee healthcare to all people. Abdul understands that and will help us move in that direction.
Uh Senator Sanders, we'll leave it there. We're going to talk about healthcare next with Dr. Jay Bhattacharya. So we'll continue that part of the conversation. We'll be right back.
We're joined now by the director of the National Institutes of Health, Dr. Jay Bhattacharya. Good morning to you, doctor.
And we should mention you're also helping to run the CDC until the new director is sworn in as well.
Until next Wednesday. Yes.
Until next Wednesday. Um, so let me ask you about a number of things that I think people at home are worried about, particularly around the food supply. Um, the cyclospora outbreak linked to iceberg lettuce from Mexico is now in 15 states. There were two deaths this week due to it. Uh yesterday, USDA issued an alert for a range of products that may have salmonella, including meat and poultry. 27 states are affected by salmonella, possibly linked to jalapenos, but cilantro, red onion, avocado, also listed in a CDC notice. Albertson's, a grocery store, just recalled some items. There's risk of salmonella and eggs in Texas according to the CDC. And then you have the screwworm outbreak affecting beef. This is overwhelming for someone going into a grocery store right now. Why do they seem out of control?
Well, the cyclospora outbreak is larger than in normal years. I mean, normally there actually are cyclospora cases. The two deaths that you mentioned, they happened in late June, early July before we identified the source. And so folks that are listening can just rest assured the CDC and the FDA are working hard to track, trace back exactly where these outbreaks are occurring from, intervening with the suppliers to make sure that they don't, and doing recalls to make sure the condition doesn't spread. Uh I mean it's tough, you go to the grocery store, you buy lettuce, you say, 'Okay, can I buy the lettuce?' Um and what I say to folks listening, we're working hard to make sure that the contaminated sources don't get onto the shelves. And if you're worried, you can buy the lettuce, but make sure you wash it carefully. Don't eat outer leaves. And if you're really worried, just, you know, cook your vegetables.
But we're not hearing from the FDA. I mean, should there be a restriction on imports from central Mexico right now? It seems like a lot of things are tied back.
Yeah. I mean, I think the key thing is that when we find a contaminated source, we intervene. I can't speak for the FDA, thank God. It was just the NIH and CDC, but the folks who I have worked with at the FDA, they're a great team of folks that are tracking back and finding the source of these outbreaks. And for cyclospora specifically, it's complicated because for technical reasons, it's more difficult than if it was just a bacteria to find the exact source. But they've done a great job finding it and they've been cooperating with the CDC team that I've led the last few months to try to identify the source and what we know now is because of that hard work that's gone on.
Well, there are also a number of other health issues including measles cases now at their highest level in 35 years. The CDC says only 10 US states have measles vaccine coverage rates above the 95% threshold in the prior school year. That is so key because that is as you know a marker for basically a way to stop transmission, herd immunity. Um do you believe that the federal government needs to make a really full-throated push to tell parents go get your kids vaccinated with the MMR vaccine?
You know, one of the first things I did as CDC director, I think it was back in February of this year, was that there was a big outbreak in South Carolina, and I went on camera and I recommended that the best way to end the measles outbreak there was to have their parents vaccinate their kids for measles. And the outbreak has now ended in South Carolina in part because of that. Uh there's been a lot of outbreaks, not just in the United States, but around the world. Um and you know a lot of that has to do with a sort of a collapse in sort of public trust in a lot of science, public health measures that occurred during the pandemic for reasons we can discuss. For me the most important thing is to try to regain that trust.
Right, but why not, you can have TV ads, you can have something that's more of a national push. It was notable last week that Secretary Kennedy went on television and did say parents should get kids vaccinated for measles because it's effective at preventing infection roughly 97% of the time. That was a change for him. He has not always been that clear as you know. Why not blast that across the airwaves of America?
I mean I think that I've done my best to try to do that. Every time anyone's asked me about vaccinating their kids from measles, I say exactly that, the best way to protect your kids from measles is to get the vaccine for measles.
This country's going to lose its measles elimination status, as did Canada, as did Mexico.
But you know I think the thing is if you look at what's happened, there are specific states where we've had these outbreaks. Big outbreak in Texas which has now been addressed, big outbreak in Arizona and Utah that's been addressed, South Carolina that's been addressed. Uh now what we saw was an outbreak in Virginia again coming down sharply and now Pennsylvania, specific communities of people that are the highest risk that we have to focus on as well as the broader message that it's important for children to be vaccinated for the measles if we want to address the measles outbreak.
