I've worked with you now almost like directly working with for almost like one and a half years now saying how much. How. Condolences and sorry about that, must be hard. Should give home condolences.
Enough of mutual admiration. Let's start the show.
Let's start the show.
Welcome to this episode of Vimian Trailblazers podcast, presented to you by IIM Ahmedabad Endowment Fund. Today our guest doesn't really need an introduction. So just to let you know who it is, it is our own board chairman of IIM Ahmedabad Endowment Fund, Mr. Deep Kalra. And yes, he is also the chairman and founder of MakeMyTrip, which I think everyone in India knows. So I'm not going to waste a lot of time on introduction and we will jump right into the conversation. So Deep, welcome to the show. It's lovely to have you here, and we are looking forward to dive deep into your journey from a different perspective. Though this time we will focus more on that young person who walked into IIMA and the person who founded the IIM Ahmedabad Endowment Fund. Right? That would be the Sure, MakeMyTrip will come obviously in the journey.
I'm doubly excited to be here, obviously because this is for the endowment fund, but also because you and I have discussed this at great length on how to go about it, and I'm so happy that you're the interviewer and you're doing these podcasts yourself because I've seen the ones that I've already done and they're fantastic. So congratulations to you.
Thank you, and I think congratulations to us because we brainstormed and co-created it.
Yeah. So enough of mutual admiration. Let's start the show. So my first question is like that because other alums I asked, like okay come, tell me a story of when you walked into IIMA, how did it feel? And it will be the second question for you. The first one is related to this, that now that you are actually doing this podcast which we conceptualized and all that, how does it feel to sit there?
Yeah, I think it's a very satisfying feeling to be here because you know you get credit, you had the idea, you shared it with me. I think this was the time when we were CEO-less in the organization and you know we were all working very closely, and I loved the idea. I think we went through the whole thing of who should do it. Should we get one of our alums to do it, some professionals? We had various names. But I think I did encourage you to do it yourself, and you did the first one. It came out so well, and then you just did more so forth.
So I'd love to tell the viewers not to just glorify alum or glorify the donors and all that, that's not it. I don't think any of them need that.
The whole point is actually to give a message, you know, how the IIMA journey has helped them become who they are, of course, and B, how we can give back to IIMA in a very meaningful manner and make that kind of a productive way of giving back. So rather than just passive, which some people would like to do, it could even be very active and why actually our alma mater needs that. So with management itself today being on crossroads, management education being questioned, etc. So for me it's super satisfying to be here.
And from the journey of the endowment fund point of view, I mean you were the one who was involved in creating the endowment fund. It's six years now, almost six years now, right? So how does it feel like the endowment fund has come a long way in those six years, and what is your vision like for...
Yeah. So absolutely, I think there were a few of us. I have to give credit to Sundep Singal of Westbridge. I think he was definitely the guy with the idea, and he had done that at IIT Delhi with a few others. And I remember, Sundep I've known for a long time, Sundep called me, he's batch of '99, and he called me and he said, 'Listen, IIMA doesn't have an endowment fund.' Said, 'True.' And all the best colleges around the world, universities, have endowment funds. I said, 'Agreed.' So, and he said, 'Would you be one of the startup founders?' And I said, 'I'd love to.' And I think the whole conversation lasted maybe 15-20 minutes.
We brainstormed some more names. I said, 'I'll make a few calls, he'll make a few calls.' I think he got Romesh M interested and VT also, and everyone was like, it was so quick. I spoke to Nishit. I think maybe I spoke to Vikranti as well or multiple of us. So you know, it was so quick because these were people who I think I knew where their heart lay. I didn't know him that well, he was a neighbor, but I didn't know that well. But I was amazed how much love and fondness he has for his alma mater, and you know, so whoever one went to was very forthcoming.
But yes, there was heavy lifting, there was a lot of work to be done in the initial days. So Sundep, Romesh, I worked quite a bit on it. I think VT also put in a lot, and every founder chipped in, but we guys said, okay, let's really set this up in right earnest. We made a small board, obviously under the aegis of the director then, and the DNA, and then we went about hiring our first CEO. And you know, Chavi came in for four years and did a great startup job.
You worked with her. So I think it was a very interesting, exciting actually, startup phase. So in some sort of way it was a startup all over again, and it was a tiny team and the team has obviously grown. It's still a compact team, but it's a very well-knit team, what I really love. And of course, now we have a new CEO and you know, very new right now, just been a week, I think. And yeah, Sucha's really hit the ground running. Since I chair the endowment fund since the last couple of years, I work very closely with her, and therefore I worked like, you know, very closely with you, with other members of the team, and it was great. I mean, I loved that part of it. I actually wish, you know, one could have been in Ahmedabad doing that, but it was great because we were trying to create something which was a dream.
And the numbers, you know, definitely kept going up, but more importantly we got some fantastic donors, visionaries, who wanted to say, hey, the check is the small part, but let's actually help shape the future of IIMA together.
And with you, you know, Professor Bhaskar, who's our current director, I've been working now very closely, as well as with the previous DNA, Professor Maheshwari gave us a lot of support, and now we've got Professor Bharadwaj and Amit is just an amazing, amazing forward-looking person. He's very keen to take the endowment to great heights.
And the whole purpose of the endowment, we don't want to forget for a minute, is to help alma mater ensure we remain numero uno for, you know, decades to come. I'd love to say for a century, but I think we don't know how far that'll be or what we'll be. But we have to think forward. We have to be future-proofed. We have to be ready for the changes in management education before they come and hit us like a tidal wave.
So we're trying to see the future, and we're trying to say, okay, let's. And I think testimony to that is the AI school of management, which Chandrika Tandon, who's been just so generous, I mean, this massive hundred crore contribution given front-ended, you know, God bless her, she's just amazing. And she decided like that, they came for their golden jubilee reunion, fiftieth, we were there together.
And she was pretty clear. I mean, while we can take credit, endowment fund as well as the institute, I think Chandrika was very clear: I want to do something big. And she had done it already with NYU, she and her husband had done a great job, and you know, she was so clear on the vision. And she's very actively involved, as you know, with the whole team, which will make sure that this AI school of management is going to be the best AI school for the country. And I don't think anyone can argue that there could be a better place to put your money.
So we've got McKinsey involved, we are staffing it. Professor Anand is deeply into it, leading the center, and I think the kind of team we're putting together is going to be fantastic. So I think that clarity of vision, and similarly with all the other schools that we've got going, the centers we've got going, the chairs that we've got going.
Of course we have lots of scholarships, which is something very close to the director's heart, my heart. Like, listen, let's make sure that any student in the country who has got the wherewithal to get into IIMA should definitely not have a problem getting, you know, forget a loan, but should get a scholarship. And so we're very happy to do that. A lot of people are very excited about that.
Many of our early founders have given untied aid, I call it. Like, they've given, you know, completely full flexibility to the corpus, and many are saying, 'Listen, I want to put this in a very specific area of finance or data science or public policy,' and that's fine too. So I think it's just the beginning, honestly. I really think even at, you know, whatever, 800 crores is just the tip of the iceberg. We know the roster of our alum.
In fact, it's like drinking from a fire hose. You can't get enough. It's a question of how can we ensure that their money is not just a passive donation, can be a very important pillar of growth in a new area for the institute. And you know, you brought in the CSR element. We didn't have CSR expertise, and that's why we got you on, and you've gone beyond CSR. Who knew you'd be doing this today? But this is your side gig. But on CSR itself, I don't even think we have scratched the surface.
I mean, we're talking about just the big companies, the budgets are humongous. It's a question of can we find the right thing that the institute today has the bandwidth to do.
So, it's a good problem to have. Always, you know, Professor Bhaskar and I always say that our capacity is the issue. But then on the institute side also we are growing capacity in terms of not just space and infrastructure, that's happening of course, but in terms of professors. So I think a lot of work is being done there. So yeah, and then the Dubai campus has come up, hopefully there'll be more campuses. So super exciting times. For me the endowment fund is really like another baby startup.
Another baby startup, yeah. The way you were talking, I can see that.
Yeah. So coming to my next question, which is normally my first question for everyone else, right? That if we go back in time and you think of Deep Kalra who walked into IIMA back in 1990.
So what was he like? What was he thinking? What crazy ideas he had in his mind? Was he crazy? He was not crazy. What was that?
Always been crazy. Yeah. I guess just short of 21. So it was 1990, and so the train journey which is more interesting. Of course, getting into IIMA is huge, and normally if you get IIMA then you get all of them, so you have all of the IIMs, etc. I was also, I think, deliberating some of them, but once you get IIMA, it's end of story. Very excited to come. It was also my first experience of boarding school. So I was a day scholar in college. I went to Stephens in Delhi University, and I was a day scholar. So that was very exciting.
I think every youngster wants to leave home. If you don't want to leave home, then there's a problem. So the train was very interesting. Ashram Express which we took because there's a whole bunch of us from Stephens.
Which by the way you get ragged for almost entire first year because you're from Stephens and you're at IIMA.
For whatever reason, you know, all the engineers love ragging the Stephens guys.
Yeah. Yeah. They're called suds and all. So basically, it's quite interesting, but it takes a while. Of course you make friendships. It's part of the process.
And a lot of others from DU, even the IIT folks from Delhi and all, quite a few were there. So but we only knew the guys from college, and we were all together in one bogie, and we were all excited, anticipating, you know, what's going to happen, the haloed campus. I'd never seen the campus before, and you just come there and you say, 'Wow, like this is the Mecca.' And then you get your room, showroom, everything, which is nice. You make friends with the guys around you.
And I think what hit me first more than anything else, you also come when it's very hot, and Ahmedabad gets super hot and at that time dry. What hit me the most is everyone who gets in thinks they are cat's whiskers because they've probably done well in college. They've definitely cracked the CAT, etc.
When you get in and after a few weeks, especially after the first quiz, the quiz is really the shock exam. You get a shock and it's got ten percent weightage and you get it with no notice. Like you get it, they put up a tiny notice, goes up on the board outside your classroom. There will be quiz at two, three p.m. today. So after lunch this thing, you realize what real smart is.
And you come across people who are off-the-chart brilliant. I'm very happy to say many of them are very dear friends of mine now. But they are effortlessly brilliant, and I mean, most of the time we're talking about guys from IIT, but every now and then you'll have some non-IITian, but off-the-chart brilliant. Pick up concepts like that, first time accounts, no problem. First time eco, no problem. They will ace everything.
Except WRAC, which is everyone's nemesis, which is Written Analysis and Communication, which everyone, I think even if an English honors graduate got into IIMA, which might happen, has happened, even they would, that would be the gauntlet.
It teaches you really how to communicate, and you can never get it right. So I think that for me is the greatest leveler, and I think it's a lesson in humility when you realize you're working with these phenomenally bright but phenomenally modest, humble people.
I don't know what they studied because they were playing everything. They were having masti, they were quizzing, half the time they'd be playing carrom or table tennis in the...
In our dorm D3, we were lucky to have not only the DJ room, which was this hardcore music room with mattresses and phenomenal, still there. Of course the dom is shut now, and in the basement, the TV room.
So we were actually, and very close to the mess, and very close to the girls' dorm. So I think we were very well positioned.
So everyone was there all the time, and guys were just generally like, we had two ICs, which are top ten percent Industrial Credit scholars, who are both among my dearest friends from the dorm right there, and they would do REMs for us before exams. Most of us saying, like, 'Listen, Rem's like, okay, you know, just make sure that we know what's going on.' And very nicely, with such patience, both Pankaj, Nish, Nish we call Maru, would do these REMs, and I think I owe at least a quarter, quarter percent of all the marks and grades I got to maybe each one of them.
So it was great, and they were just always ready to help. And then you become, you make strong friendships, not only on your dorm floor, but maybe with the entire dorm, and then with other people who either you think end up in groups, there's a lot of management case study...
Or you end up playing sports with, or you just hang with, or you sit close to. So there's just some natural attraction, but the funny part is I have made a lot of friendships have got deeper after passing out. So we meet maybe only, you know, on reunions, and then when we visit each other's cities, but some folks have become great friends and even better friends later, and you realize, oh my god, I wish I'd spent more time with him earlier or with her earlier.
But it happened later because you're so busy, A, they keep you very busy with work, with studies, and the rest of the time you just want to, you know, catch up with either sport or life or chilling or whatever.
So you don't get time to meet everyone, and we also mature over time. So I think those friendships are for life. So yeah, it was definitely a game-changing experience for me, and maybe among the best two years of my life.
Lovely. Any crazy story from that time that still makes you laugh, giggle?
So many crazy stories. I'm trying to think what I can tell on the podcast.
Everything was a crazy story. So we would do crazy things like, you know, when maybe ten, twenty years ago it came out that Maggi actually has lead content, it's not healthy.
Thirteen, fourteen, thirteen.
I think at least I can speak for myself, on the average I had two Maggis a day because that was our midnight snack or whatever we were doing. It was the yummiest thing you could get, and you had it in your own dorm, and you had the little kind of, you know, you had a kettle to make it or a pan to make it. People would steal, and we had one guy in our own former batch, Priyanka, who would steal the masala of the other guy. So you would be left finally with Maggi but no masala, no extra masala.
And then we would go out for this place to eat. There was a famous place called Gopi, which I guess is still there. And I think it was a ridiculously priced thali. I'm trying to think it was twenty rupees or something, but all you can eat.
Maybe even less, because there was a place you got meat curry. We still don't know what the meat was. It was called Labella, for seven rupees.
And I think we, at one time, ten of us packed into an auto to get there to eat.
Yeah. I don't know how we sat. Two guys sat with the guy in front, or maybe six. We were eight or nine or ten. I do know that the same number couldn't fit on the way back, because we had eaten so much. And Gopi had unlimited puris.
And the one guy from my dorm, he ate fifty puris. There was a contest on that, fifty puris, right in front of us.
Contest? Two people were competing.
Yeah. This guy was like clearly miles ahead of everyone else. So you have such crazy stuff because I mean...
Was he okay after that? What happened after that?
I think he came and had a Maggi at night again. So anyway, there were crazy stories where we would sometimes study for exams all night, studying and probably imbibing not the right stuff, and going and taking exam and still doing well. So very crazy things which I don't recommend for anyone to do.
Then we had the riots while we were there. So this was sad, the Hindu-Muslim riots, say '91.
And we had to do vigil of campus. So dorm by dorm there was vigil of campus at night.
And how to do vigil, like you had to be up and you actually had nights where you did night duty?
I remember doing vigil. Someone had, I think, a tennis racket. Someone had a cricket pad. Someone had a pillow.
And the joke was what are we going to do if there is indeed a riot that comes in?
What are you going to do with anything? So, but we were doing vigil. So I think that you just do such bizarre fun things when you're young.
And you know, then we took off once, we would go to Diu as often as we could. There was a train to Diu.
And because you got pristine beaches, you got accommodation which was damn cheap, and you got yummy fresh kind of prawn and rice out there.
And we were there from our dorm once, middle of the night. I think we were swimming in the ocean and we had this thing and we just were like, 'Wow, this is paradise right here. You don't even need to go to Goa.' And it was literally, I think it was called the Verawal Express, and you just cross over out there. So yeah, there were just many, many stories. Again, I can only give some filtered ones.
But at Janmashtami time there was Matkur which would happen, human pyramid, right in front of our dorm. So there was a quadrangle between dorm three, I've shown you that.
Yeah, I've shown you that.
So between dorm three and dorm four, and the human pyramid would be formed. And one of my closest friends, Anoj, would be normally the guy right on top, scamper bra.
So you would do crazy things as you know, like you're back in school maybe, but these were just traditions. Kabira night was a big tradition.
We had our own normal sports. Frisbee, rugby was a big game out there, and we play against other colleges and do really well in that. So I think there was just some crazy, crazy times.
I think yeah, we can have a separate session only on the stories, right?
So now coming out of IIMA, like what were the dreams like? What were you thinking?
So I think, in hindsight, Sudipta, I wish I had worked for two years or more before going, but the reality is at that time seventy percent of people came without work ex. It's totally changed now, now I believe the last statistic is maybe fifteen or twenty percent come without work ex. One year is not considered work ex because that means you often are reapplying and they still come out of college.
And eighty-five percent or eighty percent or something come with two years or more work ex, even five years.
Which is, as you know, the norm in the U.S., which probably has the best management schools. Because the amount that you can learn, and I call it amount you can take and give to your course and your coursemates is much, much more, because you're talking about management, and management is a study.
You know, living study of the way people interact, how companies work, etc.
You learn even in your summer, first summer, you get, you do two years, I worked with Citibank, you learn a lot, but if you work for a few years, your perspective is very different. So I realized even there that my senior colleagues who had worked for few years, the amount that they were able to appreciate with case studies and give back, the questions, the contributions were so mature.
So in hindsight I wish I'd done that, and why, because then you also end up tumbling into the, whatever, I think a job, your first job, you get a little carried away with the momentum.
So I joined a foreign bank. I joined ABN AMRO. They didn't come to campus, but I got it outside. So I dropped out of placement.
It was a lovely bank. So I took banking, but probably I didn't even realize if I really want to do banking. It did last three years, but I was then clear I don't want to be a banker.
So had I worked a few years, maybe my first job itself would have been a different one.
