It won't be the case that you wake up in 2032 and suddenly have a life expectancy of 150. Aging is an umbrella term for a multitude of problems that arise as we get older. So, if we solved all types of cancer today, humanity would only live three and a half years longer on average, because then other problems come. That means loneliness is a bigger killer than war.
Welcome to a new exciting episode of Mark Speaks With. Today, Christian Angermayer, and I'm really happy that it finally worked out. I've been trying for a long time, and now Christian actually has time live from New York. Christian, hello. Thank you for your time. I'm very happy.
Likewise. I mean, I have to introduce you briefly. Most people probably know you. You're an entrepreneur, film producer, you're the founder of Apeiron Investment Group, you're invested in future fields like biotechnology, longevity is a huge topic of course, psychedelic medicine, AI, etc., and of course also cryptocurrencies. And you're German, as one can hear.
Yes, that leads directly to my very first question, of course. When you look at Germany now from a bit of a distance, how do you see Germany currently? How is Germany doing?
God, I thought we'd start with some warm-up question that somehow has the same... but maybe first as an apology, because I'm currently in the USA and if we talk about politics now, probably less so, but when it comes to psychedelics and so on, I sometimes slip into English. Then I know the comments will come, 'Yeah, he's a bit crazy.' That's not intentional, but when you discuss certain topics only in English for weeks, you have to translate a bit in your head. Anyway, just a small apology in case it bothers anyone. I'll try not to do it, or as little as possible.
Regarding German politics, I am frustrated. That's perhaps what I would summarize it in one word, and I don't think it surprises anyone. Yes, probably most Germans feel the same way. Yes. Where should we even start? Yes, we could do the whole podcast just about politics.
No, I don't want to talk about politics, but simply about the state of Germany. Does it hurt? What do you hear from colleagues, investors? You're also connected and well-known with Peter Thiel, and so on.
No, what hurts is perhaps, when I try to say something positive, that we actually all have all the ingredients to be very successful for the next 10, 20 years. I don't want to... I always click back to why Germany is like this, because I don't want to, but I do it because it hurts. Yes, because when you look at the starting position, for example, for TU Munich. Yes. Extremely far ahead in artificial intelligence, and especially in a sub-topic, we don't need to go into detail, but it's called GDL, Geometric Deep Learning. Yes, that is in my view the next iteration of artificial intelligence. Everyone is currently talking about these LLMs, Large Language Models. But GDL, Geometric Deep Learning, is where artificial intelligence really understands the physical world, and that is the kind of AI you need to advance robotics, for example. Munich, I would say, is one of the top three universities worldwide. By the way, the other two are Cambridge and Oxford. America has no leading university in what I consider the most important future field for AI. Then you have the whole aerospace topic, again Munich, but generally in Germany. You have robotics, and we actually have everything it takes to be successful, but we can't get it to run, so to speak. Instead, we do everything to break it. And America, you can say what you want about Trump, and as a highly political topic, if you say you don't find Trump good, yes, but let's leave aside how he does things. You can always debate that, but when you break it down, what the current government here in the USA is doing is a turbocharge that will make America clearly pull away from other countries economically and geopolitically for the next 10, 20 years. And that's why it's so frustrating, because we had the ingredients.
Mhm. Now you're also an investor, do you still invest in Germany at all?
We do things like robotics, yes, because there are good companies. So to speak. It's not... we invest significantly less than 10 years ago. So from a macro decision perspective, we decided 10 years ago to focus heavily on the USA. That doesn't mean zero, so to speak. Even in a crappy country, politically speaking, there can be very good companies. There could just be so many more very good companies.
Yes. Yes, it is so. I also believe Trump has done a lot right, and the administration too. The way he does it, of course, one can argue about that, but if I could choose, I would naturally want an extremely charming, lovable, natural communicator Donald Trump who does exactly the right things. But if I have to choose, I'd rather have someone like Trump, who in German you might say is a bit crazy and a pain, but who does the right things, than someone who is polite and so on, but in the end does everything wrong.
Agreed. I also believe, as you say in English, I think, substance over form. Yes. He gets stuff done and is a dealmaker. And as I said, I believe he has done many things right and has implemented what he said, America First or Make America Great Again. And I believe he has really set the course, as you also see and said, for the next decades probably. The hegemon USA will probably remain number one in this multipolar world. We shouldn't fool ourselves, even if the Democrats win, they will do things differently in terms of communication. They will handle certain, so to speak, but actually irrelevant topics differently. But they will, as they did last time, adopt Trump's China policy one-to-one and maybe even sharpen it a bit. Yes, so people always feel better when there's a Democratic president in Europe, which is actually almost more dangerous. Yes, because then you forget that they also pursue America First in the end, just like the Republicans, perhaps only they don't say it out loud. And we should start doing Germany First at some point. In the end, I believe, perhaps a different year, but the same applies to immigration. The world would be better off if all heads of state and all politicians really cared about the people they are ultimately morally, ethically, and even legally obligated to, namely their citizens. Yes, we have this absurdity, and now the other countries in Europe are no exception, that in all of Europe, elected politicians primarily care about the people who didn't vote for them. Yes. And redistribute from the people who voted for them to the people who didn't vote for them. Which is such an absurdity, if you just think about it banally, that it can't go on for long. We have to see what happens in England.
Yes. Yes. Also soon in Germany, France, and so on. So 100% agreed, we are already kindred spirits. And you've also met Donald Trump personally. And as I said, I often wonder, is he really like that, or is he playing a role to somehow unsettle everyone, because he's like a jack-in-the-box. You don't know what to expect, it's like a surprise chocolate box like in Forrest Gump, right? But maybe he also confuses friends and enemies with it, so that no one knows what's actually coming next.
There's an anecdote I can tell, because he tells it very, very often. A very good friend of mine is Richard Grenell, who was the ambassador to Germany. And he told me, I'm telling it now because it's really his favorite story and he's told it on the podcast before, how Merkel, the first time she met him when she was Chancellor, complained in a moment and said, 'But it's so difficult with your president because he's so unpredictable for us.' And his answer back then was, 'Madam Chancellor, that is the best compliment my boss can receive, because the President of America should not be controllable and predictable for anyone.' Yes, it's very good that they are on edge and always wondering what he actually wants. And I can say personally, even if people say he's crazy or will become demented or something, I consider him one of the smartest heads of state. He understands things, and much more than the heads of state in Europe, artificial intelligence and so on. Yes, and he has this communication level on top of it, which, exactly as you say, A, works, you have to say, and B, I believe voters want that too. Yes, people also want a bit of this honesty, this humor. I saw yesterday or the day before, I don't have it quite clear in my head, he said at a press conference, what everyone says about him, and then he makes the joke and says, 'Ah, if Iran somehow goes well in the end, then I'm the hero, and if it goes badly, then I blame Jared.' He was sitting next to him, it was a joke. But I actually find it... people like it, because if you look back at Germany, it's all so constructed. I have to say it positively. I know many of the politicians in Germany, and they are also very intelligent in private. And I always tell everyone, why do you switch that off and why do you become these robots who use these clichés? People don't want that anymore. They want the truthful, the human, finally again. Yes, extremely truthful. Extremely, well, truthful, but I know people will say he's not truthful because of course... but he is authentic, sorry, that's the right word. Yes. And it's human, he has weaknesses and so on, and he also laughs at himself. And I believe it would do every politician in Germany and Europe good to laugh at themselves and also admit mistakes. Yes, indeed.
Now, an important point that is also a huge trend topic right now is, of course, longevity, and you're also a big investor in that area. You know Brian Johnson with Don't Die and so on. I recently listened to a Ray Kurzweil interview where he also said, 'Hey, by 2032, whoever makes it until then can then live to be at least 150 years old.' First of all, I believe Elon Musk once said that death might be a disease that we will eventually defeat through technological progress and so on. Do you see it that way too?
100%, not only that, I'm a bit, how do you say it in English, cocky, because we... I am an investor, Apeiron, my family office, we are one of the larger venture investors globally, but we also occasionally found our own companies. So I'm still an entrepreneur, because I started as one. I co-founded a biotech company at 20, all credit to my two professors back then. And since then, as I said, we invest in the topics you mentioned: biotech, crypto, deep tech like robotics and AI, and then also a few brick-and-mortar topics like real estate, sports, and entertainment. But if we have an original idea or believe we can do something significantly better, then I'm still a founder. And for example, in the longevity area, I founded one seven years ago that is today one of the top three, or depending on the ranking, leading longevity firms. We were very early because I've actually been thinking about it for 28 years, that at least aging itself, and then you can formulate it a bit more extremely, death itself is a disease. People find that... we are so stuck on this topic, 'No, that's normal' and so on. Yes. But I've always said it's actually not normal. Or at least, the whole kick comes in the psyche, but I want more knowledge, I want to take experience with me. I want to age, and eventually my mind later with Alzheimer's and dementia. So why does my body have to deteriorate on this journey of gathering experience? Yes, why does my body actually have to break down? And to put it simply, then people start to understand it a bit. In the end, we all know DNA is the blueprint for us. Yes. And the DNA of Mark Friedrich is the same today as on the day you were born. And it will be the same DNA if you ever have to die. So. And so your blueprint, imagine it like a house, your blueprint is always the same. We actually know what the perfect Mark Friedrich version looks like, and I believe you've held up very well, but I believe you'll probably still say the perfect version was probably in your 20s at some point. That's where the felt peak is, so to speak. And that's actually like a house that isn't fully renovated anymore. Yes, I say somehow, when you're in your 20s, the cleaning lady even comes twice a day. Your body is in top shape, so to speak. And then when you're in your 30s, she only comes once a day, in your 40s she skips a day, and so on. Yes, and the cleaning lady example is a good one, because a big aging effect, or what causes the signs of aging, is that we are no longer able to wash out and clean the so-called senescent cells, dead cells, from the body. And if you think about it, there must be a solution to say, like with a house that you renovate, where you have the blueprint, where you know exactly what the perfect version of Mark Friedrich and Christian looks like. Why or how can we make it so that everything is maintained again like in your 20s? So, long story short, I've been saying this for 28 years. I was smiled at and laughed at for it. The good thing was, because my first biotech company was very successful and then other things followed, no one could say, okay, he can't do anything. Yes, but people always said he's a bit crazy, because even my own industry, which was so frustrating, even the biotech and pharmaceutical industry said for a long time, 'No, aging is normal.' The same applies to enhancement and so on, where I say, how can one always be the best version of oneself? And then 10 years ago I said, okay, if no one wants to do it, because really everyone said... there were a few people like Ray who talked about it, but no one did it. Yes, and then I said, okay, then I want to do it myself. And founded Cambrian, which is one of today's leading longevity firms. There are now many more, and we need many more, because it's a complex topic. But indeed, now, long story short, we are slowly coming, slowly means over the next 10 years, into the phase where... and now it's not like Ray said, to explain it, it won't be the case that you wake up in 2032 and suddenly have a life expectancy of 150. But what he believes, and what I also believe, is that at some point in the next 10 years, let's say between today and 2036, that one year will come where we gain more than one year of life expectancy in a year. That means you lose one calendar year, but gain more than one year. And from then on, you are in this so-called Longevity Escape Velocity. That means, you gradually earn this progress, and then I see that people who are now, let's say, under 50, plus or minus, will have the chance to live significantly longer. I don't believe we'll live forever, because the question is always, what comes next? No, because there's always something. Statistically, you'll have an accident at some point. Yes, I also believe, completely different topic, but that if we live very, very long, there might be people who don't want that at all. That means we will then have to talk about it, just because you might be able to become 100 or 150, you can't force people to do it. Yes, that means we will suddenly talk about whether one can voluntarily leave life. That will be a completely different moral discussion. But what I believe is that our generation, your, mine, and anyway, 100%, I believe with a high probability we are already in this category, but 100% my 16-year-old son is in the category that we have the choice to become a few hundred years old. Yes, whether you want to use them is another question.
Yes, it's also the question, do you just give life more years, or the years more life? If I can still run a half marathon at 100, am mobile, can work independently, live, cook, then it's different from if you vegetate in some retirement home.
Exactly. And good that you say that, because I always wonder, and then I forget to mention it, I always wonder why there could be anyone who doesn't like this vision. But it's true, there are really absurdly many people who say no. But then I remember that you have to explain that of course not... many people who say, 'Ah, I don't want that,' they think of a 90-year-old grandma they might have, who lies in bed and so on, and then they think, for God's sake, if I add another 10, 20 years to that, I don't want that. But what's very important, and you can already see it now, life expectancy extension always goes hand in hand with a rejuvenation of the body, so to speak. It's the same. You have to work on renovating the body, so to speak, and then it lives longer. And then when I tell people, 'Hey, I'll give you another 100 years in your 40s,' and they say yes, then that sounds much better.
Yes, absolutely. What can one already do now to get the most out of it? You also do a lot with nutrition and lifestyle and so on. What tip can you give there?
So let's start exactly with that, because many people always want the magic pill, which doesn't exist. By the way, maybe one more sentence, the magic pill for a long life will never exist, because aging is a very complex process. Yes. And by the way, I'm very, very proud, one of my colleagues with whom I founded the longevity firm is Professor Manuel Serrano. He was the one who really initiated and substantiated the whole topic we just discussed scientifically. Because until the early 2010s, until about 2010, people believed, and I had already said, there must be something to slow down aging, but the scientific opinion was, if at all, most said it's not possible, and the few who said maybe it's possible were looking for this switch, as if there's a lever you flip and then you don't age anymore. And then came Manuel, one of the really most important and best aging researchers, and said, we actually understand aging completely wrong, because we call aging a verb, so to speak, as if it's a mechanism or a process. But the truth is, his new definition of aging is that aging is just the umbrella term for a multitude of problems that arise as we get older. And he called these problems the Hallmarks of Aging, and currently he and others have defined 12 of them. There will surely be more, but currently there are even 12 Hallmarks of Aging. These are the problem areas that simply go wrong or get worse as you get older. And suddenly, when you look at these 12 Hallmarks of Aging, even very conservative people who previously said aging can never be fixed said, 'Oh wow, he's right.' These 12 problems, if you look at them that way, are actually medically understandable and perhaps indeed reversible. For example, a huge topic is metabolic dysfunction. That means, the older you get, the less efficiently your body can handle energy. Anyone over 40 will notice, you eat the same, gain more weight, aren't as good in the gym. This whole translation of energy input and energy output works worse and worse. Yes. And we have now, I don't know when the podcast comes out, but today or yesterday we had super news, because we have the most advanced, we are already in Phase 2, medication to turn a person's metabolism back to that of a 20-year-old. Then you go back to the gym, feel like a 20-year-old, burn more, gain less weight, and so on. But anyway, the 12 Hallmarks of Aging were the moment when even very conservative researchers said, 'Wow, if we address and work on all these problems and hopefully solve them one day, then that should lead to at least a significant slowing of aging. Maybe we can even reverse the whole thing.' And that was the kickoff for the entire field.
Yes, absolutely fascinating, I think it's great.
And to come back to what you said, questions, because that's why there is... A, the answer is there is no magic pill, but over the next 10, 20 years there will be very many new medications, because we have to address all 12 hallmarks, and as I said, we expect as we get older, there will be new or additional hallmarks of aging. Yes, but that is all only relevant if you do the basics. And that's a bit like the old 80/20 rule, and the basics are really simple and at the same time hard, because you need a lot of discipline. Number one is you need enough sleep. Sounds simple, but most people have an extreme sleep deficit. Unfortunately, we still live in a society where we glorify working through and sleeping little. And I have to say, hopefully people would say I'm really very hardworking, but sleep is sacred to me. That was one of the reasons why I was a bit late for the recording today. I only slept two hours on the plane overnight. I have to go to bed now, otherwise I can't function at all if I don't have my minimum portion of sleep. And my big luxury, when I'm not traveling, is that I really try not to wake up with an alarm clock. I schedule appointments only from 10 a.m. onwards, so that whether I wake up at 8 or 8:30, because sleep goes in cycles, and if you're ripped out of a cycle, the whole cycle is broken. That's why people say, 'Oh, I only slept 10 minutes less than yesterday, but I feel like I slept two hours less.' Yes, because the alarm clock might have ripped you out of the sleep cycle at exactly the wrong time in the last 10 minutes. I could talk for hours about this. I would recommend a great book by Matthew Walker, the Harvard professor for sleep. It's called 'Why We Sleep' in English. In German, I think it's 'Warum wir schlafen' or 'Ring' or 'Schlaf'. Because it explains it well. As I said, I could talk about it alone for a long time, and it illustrates very well why sleep, when you have too little, is so bad. For example, just one statistic from the book: if you sleep one or two hours less than you need for two nights. And by the way, most people need 6 to 8 hours. Yes. Only about 1-2% of people need less, but I believe 20-30% of people think they are in the category that needs less. If you sleep one or two hours less than you need for just one or two nights, your immune system drops by over 50%. Which, by the way, means that most people, because almost everyone has a sleep deficit, are walking around with a suppressed or weakened immune system, which is then again fertile ground, as they say, for cancer and so on. So, anyway, sleep is a topic. Second topic, just as important as sleep and perhaps the most unexpected, is social contacts. Yes. And friendship and family life and so on. Or conversely, loneliness can also be measured. People who are lonely and don't have a social environment die about seven years earlier than people with a good social environment. By the way, cancer takes away, I believe the number is, only three and a half years on average. So, if we solved all types of cancer today, humanity would only live three and a half years longer on average, because then other problems come. That means loneliness is a bigger killer than war. The third is good nutrition. I'm not dogmatic about it, because I believe if you overdo it and are too panicked and whatever, but in the end, Mediterranean diet, more fish than meat, lots of vegetables, and few, let's say bad carbohydrates, so no noodles, no pasta, rather lentils, beans, and things like that. Fourth, two or three times a week exercise, and a mix of cardio and strength training. You don't have to overdo it, you don't have to be a high-performance athlete, which for longevity might not even be so good if you did three hours every day, but a basic fitness, and especially a basic cardio fitness, is extremely important. And the fifth is really no drugs. And the most important thing there is that the worst drugs are alcohol, sugar, and smoking. Especially the legal drugs, because people think, 'Ah, I don't do cocaine or anything.' But alcohol is by far the worst thing you can do when talking about longevity. And perhaps I would add a sixth rule, and that is preventive care, because in the end, if you are under 70 years old, the biggest problems or risks are by far cardiovascular problems, like heart attack, stroke, and so on, and cancer. And both things can be treated relatively well in the early phase with very good preventive care, if a problem develops. There are a few niche cancers where that's not the case, but for most things people die from, if they had found it two or three years earlier, it would have been better. And that's why preventive care is so banal, that's why everyone can afford it, and so on, but very few do it. I find in my own circle, when I ask, how often do you actually get a colonoscopy? Not a fun topic, or people find it weird, but yes, if you get a colonoscopy every two or three years, you won't die of colon cancer. Yes. But people don't do it, which is a great shame. And in the end, by the way, is the statement, because people often confront me and say, 'Oh, that's only for the rich and so on.' Everything I just told you, every human can do with discipline. The real factor for a long life is not money. Yes. But is discipline, which is simple and hard at the same time.
Yes. And what about supplements? When I look at Brian Johnson, he takes about 120 tablets. Do you do anything there or in general?
I just wanted to clarify, Brian is also a very good friend. Yes, we do a lot together. I just wanted to clarify, as I said, you can talk about supplements, and there are very, very good ones already. As I said, the really good stuff will only come in the next 10 years, but there are already good things. I just wanted to clarify, it makes no sense to talk about supplements and think, 'Yeah, I'll buy two or three tablets and then everything is fine.' Sport and nutrition. Yes, if you only do that, it only works if you get the 80% right. Yes, and those are the five or six things I just listed, then you can optimize with the other 20%. What are the core supplements? I am personally a huge fan of these GLP-1s, these weight-loss injections, for two reasons. One is a bit of the vanity aspect. I'm on GLP-1s, I'm a stress eater. Yes, that means, even when I have good stress, so when I'm happy and working on something, but when I'm focused on my work, I'm the type who says, 'Oh, there's a cookie, I'll eat it now.' So I have this... and that's why I always gain weight when things are going particularly well. And GLP-1s just cut that off. You no longer have this urge, or you simply forget it. So it has a vanity effect, but at the same time, and a new study comes out every day, but what is also completely clear is that reduced calorie intake and especially a better blood sugar profile over a longer period of time has an extremely positive effect. There are first studies that it's extremely good for the heart, or protective, that it might even prevent Alzheimer's and dementia. And not because GLP-1 directly prevents Alzheimer's and dementia, but because, in the end, one of the biggest aging factors is this excessive fluctuation of blood sugar levels when you constantly eat sweets or sugar or sugary things like carbohydrates and so on. And because you simply eat less and maybe a bit healthier over years, these weight-loss injections also have an extremely good longevity effect. Then, what else do I do? I take about 30 tablets a day, but many of them are banal things, because vitamin D is a core topic. I always say simply, if someone doesn't live on the equator and runs around naked outside every day, they probably have a vitamin D deficiency, because 99%... I do a lot for sleep, and it doesn't always mean it's medication, prescription medication. Most people have a magnesium deficiency. Yes, magnesium is essential for sleep. Yes. But I also take a, there is a very new sleep medication, which is actually honestly the first real sleep medication, because before, everything that was called sleep medication was extremely negative, because they don't give you sleep, they just knock you out. There's Ambien and Xanax and so on. Yes, but what they do is almost like a narcotic. You're gone and you think you slept, but you don't get this deep sleep. In the end, deep sleep is what really provides regeneration. You sleep 6-7 hours, but only the time in deep sleep is actually what you really need and want. Yes, and that's where all the regeneration effects happen. And there's now a new medication called Qivic. I can't remember the active ingredient right now. That is the first medication that really induces deep sleep. And since I've been taking it, I sleep on average one hour less, but feel better. Why? Because I get more deep sleep, and then at some point I wake up and okay, now my body has had enough. That's one topic. I do testosterone replacement therapy, so a bit more testosterone, which I would say, there are always exceptions why you shouldn't do something, but for the majority of men over 40, it's the best thing you can do. The biggest correlation to athletic performance, muscle building, and so on, which is then again indirectly extremely good for everything else. So testosterone. Do you also take creatine? I take a lot of creatine, yes, over 10 grams. That means, how many grams do you take a day? Over 10 grams. Okay. Yes, cool. It's also supposed to be cognitively supportive. Yes. Yes, cool. And that's just a few examples of what I take. On some days, if I do eat some sweets, Acarbose, I think you also pronounce it in German. That's an active ingredient that filters out the sugar. I take DHEA, which is a kind of prohormone, Pycnogenol. Those are the topics. But I say now, maybe that can all be Googled, and I would say, of course, you can probably say now, if someone is around my age, then it makes sense. But a very important thing with all these topics is, in the end, you have to do it with a doctor. And precisely because, in the end, everyone is a bit different.
Different. Exactly. So. Absolutely. Exactly. You need tailor-made for which age, which gender, kids or not, etc. Exactly. And at some point there are, I don't know, a few percent of people who have an enlarged prostate already in their 40s. I wouldn't take testosterone then. And that's something you have to discuss once with a professional.
Yes. Definitely. How old do you want to become? So if you could express a wish, how old would you want to become?
I would put it differently because I really don't know. I would like to make the decision how old I would be. And I currently find that we live with all the nerve problems we discussed at the beginning about German politics and global and so forth, but I find the time we live in incredibly fascinating.
Of course, the best time there ever was, right?
Exactly. And if it ever stops being that, then I can always decide to leave this life. So there I am a really extreme libertarian to say, I want to make the decision when my life ends. I find that the greatest freedom. And at the moment, I find the world so exciting that I would like to stay. At the moment, I'm also in a state of mind where I say, I want to discover this world that is opening up before us, and I want to be part of it. But I can also see that maybe in 40 years I say, you know what, either the world has developed in a direction where I say, wow, I don't want that. Or by the way, I say it's amazing, but I've seen everything now. So I can certainly imagine that there is this world-weariness. And I am personally very religious and spiritual. I believe there comes a moment where you say, I want to see what comes next.
So what comes next? I believe that we had a permanent cycle of rebirth, but in the bigger idea. So if I try to explain what I believe, and there religion and science come very close, because we have a cool company in America called Black Rock Neuroscience, it has nothing to do with Black Rock, the asset manager, but Black Rock because they were founded in Utah and there is a village called Black Rock. Yes, they make BCI, brain computer interfaces, chips that are implanted into the brain. And I give you the following thought experiment, and then I come back to what I want to say about rebirth. And you can watch very cool videos. Everything I'm telling you now is not science fiction, it's not something we plan to do someday. We are already doing it. You can go to our website. We have over 70 people with a computer chip in their brain, and everything I say now, they can already do today. We have people who are all severely ill. Most are severely disabled, paralyzed from the neck down. For this group, we have permission to give them chips in the brain. Why? Because they can use a computer, for example. We have people who cannot move, but they have a robotic arm and control this robot with their thoughts. Or we have a patient with end-stage ALS. ALS is a disease where you gradually can't move your muscles anymore, which leads to, because in the end everything is muscle. So if I talk here, you have muscles here. In the end, it's called locked-in syndrome, nothing moves anymore. They can't even blink and are truly trapped in their body because the mind is fully there. But they can't communicate. With ALS, it's one of the few diseases where in almost all countries, when the disease progresses, suicide is allowed because you can't lock someone in their body for maybe 40 more years. So we had this one patient, extremely emotional, because he is a devout Mormon and they are not allowed to voluntarily leave life even in such a situation. And he knew what was coming, namely that he would eventually be trapped in his own body and unable to communicate. So he agreed, we gave him a chip in his brain. You can look at our website, and I'm not exaggerating, because he thinks and the computer speaks for him. That means we are able to read thoughts from the brain, transfer them to a computer, and then speak. We are also working with the University of Hanover in Germany on exactly the opposite, sending thoughts back to the brain. Yes, so by the way, only those two things together is telepathy. That is maybe 10 years away. But why I'm telling you this, sorry, whenever I talk about Black Rock I get very excited because it's one of my favorite companies, is that in the end, what we will be able to do is completely create the sensory input and output. So if I asked you why you believe you're having a podcast at your desk and zooming with Christian, you believe that because your hands are lying on the table. You feel the table, you see me, you see the computer, maybe you have a coffee standing somewhere, you can smell it. Maybe you have an air conditioner, you feel it on your skin. Everything that gives you the illusion that you are sitting at a desk and zooming with me is your input, your sensory input. That means the moment I can simulate that completely, you could create any illusion around you, but you wouldn't be able to define whether it's real or not. Because the question is, what is real? Real is what your senses tell you. The moment I can artificially create your sensory input, I can create any reality in your head that you want. So what will happen then? It's a little thought experiment. The first thing people will do from my perspective is they want to be, I don't know, Emperor Augustus, they want something cool, positive, like a computer game. In the end, it's like a computer game, just hyper-realistic. But if you've played the computer game ten times where you were the king of Egypt or whatever, eventually you'll say, you know what? I know I am Mark Friedrich. So it's all just a game. Now I want to be the slave who dies in the Colosseum in Rome. Why? By the way, and I don't want to feel any pain. Make me a computer game. I want to be a gladiator. I want to die in the game too, but in the end, I don't want much. Maybe give me a little peak, you can adjust everything. We already have that today. We have guys on our website who have the chip and like to play computer games, and we always give them a little electric shock when they get shot. They find it funny. We can do that, and the easiest thing to simulate is touch. I can even adjust how bad it is. Do you really feel the bullet or just a bit. And so you will do that, but at some point, when you've played this game many times where you are completely realistically another person, but you still remember that you are Mark Friedrich, eventually you will fall in love or do something where you say, in the end it's not real. I know I'm in a computer game and I'm actually Mark Friedrich. Then you'll come out of the computer game and tell my engineers, can't you turn off my memory, because I can only truly live and feel if I don't remember who I actually am? And then you will even actively say, but I want to actively feel pain, I want to actively play a game where I am, for example, the slave who dies in the Colosseum, because in the moment you decide for it, you know it's just a game. But then you go into the game and have forgotten it's a game and ask yourself, why am I here in the Colosseum? But when the game ends and you come back to your base reality, you say, ah, of course, that was fun, I wanted to try that too, and now I want to be that. And I believe you can explain that through tech simulation or through the religious side with the soul, but long story short, what I believe deep down is that we have an immortal core, call it soul and so on. And if you think about what immortal means and what eternity means, then you actually want to experience all the different characters and emotions and so on, without judgment. So if you push it a bit, it's not even about achieving something special or learning, because you can do it over and over, but it's simply about being and collecting experiences. That is, I think, my religious attitude, but I also see that's where the tech industry is going, that we live life after life, with a positive undertone, just for the sake of living it.
Mhm. So it sounds like you don't have any fear of death or in a certain way not. You have, of course, when someone says they have no fear of death, I think that would be a bit embellished, but not really. How did you say it?
