If someone's watching this, how do they know?
Well, I will say you don't just wake up one day and know.
You don't. I don't think that's how it normally happens.
How it happened in my situation is that I've thought about it for probably two or three years. It's very difficult because then you wonder who am I if I'm not this?
Do I have it in me to do it again and do it in another arena? Because I think fear stops a lot of people and keeps them doing something too long.
Well, first of all, fear either stops you or causes you to do something. It helped us develop as leaders to see other companies how they work, learn other businesses, transition from doer, CEO to advisor, board member, because those are very different roles. If you think you're going to begin your next chapter when you're starting your next chapter, you're 100% wrong.
That is an absolute right. You've got to be starting it years before and you don't even know.
Hello and welcome to yet another podcast and I will tell you why we feel there is a need. I am Steve Noodleberg. I am the chairman of On the Ball. I am thrilled to be sitting next to my friend and fabulous CEO Lisa Lutoff-perlo.
Hello, Steve. And also vice chair of On the Ball.
Yes, ma'am. Very excited about that. So, welcome to On the Board. This is a podcast about what's next for CEOs, founders, leaders that are in transition. And from the day that you and I started working together, we have had this conversation about transition. For those who don't know your background, share what you did and where you are today.
Okay. So, for 40 years, I was part of the Royal Caribbean Group and ended my 40-year career there as CEO of Celebrity Cruises. I had spent almost 10 years as CEO of Celebrity and as I was approaching my 40th year, I thought it was a good time to start my next chapter. And what I have found as I've started my next chapter is that so many people now ask me less about what it was like being a CEO at Celebrity and more about how did you make the transition? How did you know it was time? And so as I think about where I am now and where I was to your point, I think this is a great conversation to be having.
I think it's a bullseye. I think most of the podcasts talk about leadership from how am I growing? How am I getting there? Where is new revenue? Where is all the things that leaders are focused on. Yet, I hear all the time in my coaching practice, hey, I've got gas in the tank, but like, what do I do next? What, you know, I want more to do. I don't want to do what I did. Where do I do that? And so, we've explored tons of things over the course of time. Yeah. One of the things I really admire about you is your well certainly your intelligence and your EQ about business, but just your courage to, you know, you write about it in your book. So, speak to that a little bit as we're because we're going to delve into tons of topics as it relates, but you know, for our first show, just sort of talk through that.
Well, in referencing the book Making Waves, which you did, so the subtitle of Making Waves is a woman's rise to the top using smarts, heart, and courage. And for me, it's all about courage. Life is about courage. Your career is about courage. Leadership is about courage. And knowing when to walk away takes a tremendous amount of courage. And at the end of chapter 10, I talk about that. I talk about coming to the realization as I was writing the book, it was time to do something else. I had accomplished everything I wanted to and then some. I mean, I look back at my career and it was extraordinary and I'm so grateful for it.
Still extraordinary, by the way.
Yes, you're right. It is still extraordinary. But, you know, it was like, okay, I've done that. I feel really good. I'm leaving behind an incredible legacy. And now I want to spend the rest of my life in a different way. And that's hard to get to because so much of who we think we are is tied up in what we do and the titles that we have.
Yeah. That identity piece is really difficult. Yeah.
It's very difficult because then you wonder who am I if I'm not this, right? And that's how people view you. That's how they interact with you. That's what they expect from you. You did such a great job doing that that to strip yourself of that, you know, the reverence of being naked is real. It's like, wow, you know, like this is what I do. This is who I am, which is not accurate.
That's right. And I will say that as I think about having made that decision, I'm so grateful that I did. I don't regret it for a moment. But I also have that same conversation with so many people now because they don't know when it's time. They don't know who they're going to be when they're not that anymore. And yeah, so it takes a lot of courage.
So this is a curious question, but I sort of know the answer, but I want our audience to know it. You had board seats prior to exiting as a CEO. You were asked to do that. Can you unpack that for people? Because I know for me as an entrepreneur, the idea of having a board seat was almost more fluffy, you know, it was more, hey, you know, I'll play an advisor role. But you've gotten into some very serious situations where the responsibility. So, you know, the reason why we're doing this show is because I don't think people have visibility into what the responsibilities are of being on a board.
Well, they're huge and there are different types of boards. So, there are boards of advisors and those are fun. Those are sometimes short-term. People want to bring advisors or experts in for.
I've done that. It's been an elevated coaching experience that gives it a little bit more formality, but I didn't have deep responsibilities to the finances of the company or the ethics of the company, right?
No. Well, those are boards of advisors are different and some public companies and some companies that have the boards like you're talking about also have boards of advisors. But when I was still in my role as CEO of Celebrity, our board encouraged us to try to get on corporate boards.
Yes. One, only because it's not, you know, it's not a cakewalk. It's not a fluffy position. It's a serious position.
I'm curious why would they want you to take your expertise and share it somewhere else?
Number one, it's prestigious for a company to have their executives on other boards, especially if they're other publicly traded boards. Okay? Number two, it helped us develop as leaders to see other companies, how they work, learn other businesses, transition from doer, CEO to advisor, board member, because those are very different roles. And that transition is hard, especially when you're a sitting CEO to now just become a board member who gives advice and doesn't.
To not be able to execute.
I can see that being a challenge, but that in and of itself is a lesson. That restraint, that patience, that you know.
And it's something you learn.
And getting your first board, I will always say, is the hardest. Okay. But I then went about taking our board's advice and encouragement and I then joined the board of AutoNation in 2020.
Okay. So, let's call it what it is. Like your first board seat, your career has always been magnificent, but then your first board seat is with one of the most recognized brands in the world.
Yes. And especially in South Florida. Yeah.
Where it started, but still, I mean, that has such, you know, so unpack how and what made you qualified, how, you know, I think one of the things we're going to do here is really show people the road map to how it gets done.
So there are a few things that I think are really important to understand about how I landed my first board seat. First and foremost, I worked for many, many years in South Florida as a business leader and as CEO of Celebrity. I also spent a lot of time doing philanthropic work within the community as well. And it just so happened that there was a conversation at a dinner table about wanting to find another board member at AutoNation.
And that's when Michael Jackson was the CEO of AutoNation and his wife Alice was in the room while the conversation was happening and she said, 'If you're looking for another board member, you should really think about Lisa Lutoff-perlo.' And she spoke very highly of me.
So it's funny because you and this is typical you you say it just so happened. It doesn't just so happen. So you know for our audience a major takeaway is that if you're sitting in your office thinking that that's where it ends. You took the CEO position to the streets.
And you met people before you and I had the chance to actually meet. I knew who you were and that was before social media. There was a reputation and a brand that you had built and shared with people long before social media. So, I think a key takeaway for people is you got to promote yourself and put yourself in that position. No different than when you were growing the business. You're growing yourself. So, that's a key takeaway.
Or climbing the corporate ladder. If I wasn't, you know, finding the right rooms to be in, then I wasn't going to get the opportunities that came about.
Wow. So that's internal as well as external.
That's right. And so, you know, we said there's a lot of shows that talk about, you know, growing that corporate ladder. Well, some of the same rules apply outside of just being there. If you're not in that room, you don't get that opportunity.
No. And your name's not going to come out.
Correct. And that's what I tell people all the time. If you think you're going to begin your next chapter when you're starting your next chapter, you're 100% wrong.
That is an absolute bullseye, right? And you've got to be starting it years before and you don't even know.
I was going to say, were you thinking that?
Then so it just was organic and like because you've said in your career growth, you weren't thinking about where to go. You just went and I did certain things that ended up working out really well for me that I probably didn't know at the time. And my next chapter, my second wave as you and I call it all the time, wouldn't have happened.
Which is very relevant. You know, your book is Making Waves and this is the second wave.
This is my second wave. So, that's the first thing. Okay. The second thing was that when companies are looking for board members, they're oftentimes looking for certain attributes or skills or experiences that potential board member has. Okay. For me at the time it was customer service. It was loyalty. It was building a brand, building your business and.
Which was part of your core business you brought to the table.
Okay. So people could look at what their core business is and that becomes an asset that they then deliver in a different environment.
That's right. And that's what AutoNation was looking for at the time in addition to the fact.
They're still looking for it. We're all still looking for it. Every company's looking for them, actually.
As topical as anything. Oh my goodness. It never goes away. That's for sure. But in addition to that, I ran a multi-billion dollar brand. Highly profitable. Transformed the financial performance of the brand. How many times did I make a mistake? Billion. I'm like, I said it was a multi-billion. And so yeah, so all of those things converged to a good opportunity for me and a hopefully good fit for AutoNation.
So I'm curious, I don't know the answer to this. So as the CEO of Celebrity, did you have a board that you interacted with where you learned from or so you had that experience of what it was like to have a board? Did you have any say in who was on that board?
Okay. So, I was in the boardroom for nine years with our board.
