Welcome back to the Daily Edge where we ask entrepreneurs, executives, athletes, and high performers how they find their edge. Today's guest is a returning guest, Lisa Lutoff-Perlo, fresh off her announcement of joining On the Ball as vice chairwoman. We dive into why she joined the team and how she developed thousands of employees under her leadership. As always, I'm your host, Mark Littleberg. Let's find our edge.
Let's find our edge that starts with our affirmation. I take control of my agency. It signals my command, expertise, and legitimacy. It reflects earned credibility. Lisa, welcome to the show.
And I stole your word of the year for the affirmation.
Wonderful exercise. I'm so glad that you're practicing that exercise.
And part of taking control of that agency is choosing to be vice chair of On the Ball. Welcome to the team, Lisa.
All right. Thank you. I'm very excited to announce that. I love it.
I got to make it a little smaller. Okay. It's like national signing day here, right? And I think we signed an unbelievable member of our team.
First round draft pick, right?
A thousand percent, or in college terms, it would be a five-star blue chip.
I will tell you, I'm so excited to have your expertise. I'm so excited to have your experience and to have you help guide me through this next evolution of On the Ball. But we talked a little bit about why this was a good fit for you. Primarily something you've done over your whole career is put at the forefront the importance of people development. You did that inside of a multi-billion dollar organization. Can you talk a little bit about that experience in developing people and maybe some of the challenges that existed for you in doing that?
Well, listen, I spent 40 years in a great company and throughout those 40 years there were so many different programs we implemented across the company. Myself as an executive, you know, we looked at high potential executives, we got them executive coaches, we looked at high potential talent within the organization, we had a program called Building on Talent. Training and development was a big part of not only our shoreside teams' development but also our shipboard teams where we were trying to get leaders ready to get into management and people who hadn't led in the past who, you know, we all know how difficult it is when you promote someone too early and they're not ready for that. So I'm a big believer in the concept of helping people get better through programs that are designed for specific needs within a company and for a lot of people or individual executives. So doing this was just a natural transition for me because I've had so much great experience with it and I know On the Ball does it so incredibly well.
Thank you for that. Talk to me a little bit about because you kind of hit on two different things. I think executive coaching which would have been from an outside resource and then I think you even just talked about a program that was probably more internal in terms of your leadership development programs. Do you have a preference if now in your experience do you have a preference in an internally developed program or an external source coming in and administering it? Do you feel one is better than the other? No bias towards On the Ball?
Sure. No. But interestingly enough, it was all external although some of it might have been delivered internally. So for example, we would hire companies to develop training and development programs that could be applied across a broad group of people like our shipboard staff, which was 20,000. Right? So it would be pretty impossible for us to bring in a company that could train 20,000 different people at any given period of time. So our training and development managers that we had on ships would deliver the programs, but the programs were developed externally. Sort of like what we do here at On the Ball. I say we now, I love that. And then everything else was external. So our Building on Talent program was done externally with a major university in the country. Our executive coaching was done externally through some big firms that do that as part of what they offer companies. So we were out buying this from a lot of different people and for different applications and for different people and for different programs. So, and with you know, for me even being a coach when I started coaching in 2005 versus the tools that were available to me in 2015 was astronomically different.
Right. Right. You having all 40 years.
I mean to think that those programs started as paper and pencil and very time and in-person intensive to what we do now which is video on-demand teaching, virtual group learning, you know, sporadic in-persons and things like that. Do you have a program or something that you guys did in your past that you were like, 'This was the best thing we ever did and if I could replicate it a hundred times, I would.'
It was the virtual training, especially for the shipboard staff because that's exactly what we did. We developed programs and we executed them online and the crew was able to take them. It was mandatory. Yeah. And they could take it though on their own time because all their schedules were so different and it was available and they had their own laptops and computers in their rooms. We also had computer centers where it was available to them. So that was I think the best thing that we were able to do based on the evolution of how you train. And it made our ability to train our teams on, you know, from leadership to how to offer better customer service to for our onboard revenue managers to how to sell more on board to our guests, right? The, you know, it ran the gamut of how we would train and it was really, it was game-changing for us.
And I know that it's a core pillar of yours. In, you know, what made it successful, where did that come from for you? Where did that belief in training and development, where did that 'hey, this has to be a priority for me' come from?
Because I did it myself, you know, and there's nothing better than that, right? Because I am a lifelong learner. I continue to learn. I had so many different opportunities within our company where I was put in charge of things that were very new to me. And so the ability to learn, the ability to be coached by different people and mentored by different people was a critical component of me being able to be successful. And the other thing is I was a leader who truly wanted the people that worked with me and for me to achieve their potential, right? And the best way to do that was to enable them to learn and make themselves better and improve their knowledge and experience every single day so that they felt more confident and were doing a better job.
So you created great teaching material, right? We have Lisa Lutoff-Perlo Leadership Academy. Yes. And it's, you know, virtual, self-led, not self-taught, on demand. But that's not coaching. That's teaching, right? I think you're a really good coach because I hear you talk about the way you've worked with people and what you've done. How did you become a good coach?
Um, I became a good coach because I care about people and I care about their success. And I learned when I was in all the different leadership roles that I have. I was coaching every day. I was coaching every interaction. There's structured coaching, which you know we're all a part of, right? That's what we do here at On the Ball and that's what other companies do. However, as leaders, we're coaching every single day. Not only by what we tell people or advise people or, you know, are able to add value to the jobs that people do, but even how we conduct ourselves, right? And what we do and the decisions we make. Every moment that we are a leader is a coaching moment. And so, I'm a huge believer in coaching. And I took it really seriously and I held myself to an incredibly high standard. And I continue to do that. And so when people look at me and look at what I've accomplished or look what I'm doing, whether it was becoming CEO and leading 20,000 people or running a really profitable brand that was financially transformed under my leadership or whether people ask me how do I get on boards? I've seen you get on boards. Or how did you manage your transition from corporate CEO to your second wave that I call it now and what I'm doing including being vice chair of On the Ball. You know, I'm number one honored that people ask me and number two it's just natural. It comes naturally to me to try to help people and help them be successful in whatever phase of their life or career they're in.
So I know that big Tom Brady fan, right? Like forever and I'm assuming that means you're a Bill Belichick fan as well.
Are there any sports coaches that you ever looked to that were good models for you as you started to, as you continued to develop your leadership?
Well, actually, I like Mike Vrabel. I love Mike Vrabel. He's like a coach's coach, you know, when, oh my gosh, I can't remember who was running down the field on that punt return and he ran all the way down the field with him, when he stands there and high-fives every player that comes in. And I know there are other coaches that are probably really good, but I love coaches. I love players' coaches. You know, Bill Belichick wasn't a players' coach. And you know, I never forgave him for letting Tom Brady go and actually making it impossible for Tom Brady to stay. And you know what? Karma's a... And chapter eight in my Making Waves is all about the boomerang and you get what you give and you know you let him go and you have five losing seasons and you know I don't even joke now. He's a caricature of himself. So we won't even talk about that. But I love Mike Vrabel. You know he's a tough coach. You know he takes no prisoners, he suffers no fools. But I'll tell you but he loves those players and they love him. And that's how I tried to coach. I was a players' coach. Held them to a very high standard. We got to win, but you know what? I care about you and I want you to care about me. And so those are the coaches I love.
How do you think what's the proper way for people to manage that? Because I actually, so I had somebody on this show, a very successful volleyball coach who actually reached out to me last night.
Because she's having an issue with a very talented player on the team that she's got to make a choice. Do I give them a lifeline even though nothing that they have done has really earned that lifeline but they're very talented and they could help. And so we had this whole conversation and it's really hard. I think it's really hard as a leader to separate the relationship sometimes from the accountability and the high standard and consequences. How did you do that or what's your philosophy behind doing that?
Um, so there's different types of accountability, right? You know, some people are really good at what they do, but really, they don't really have the right culture, moral compass, integrity, they don't lead the right way, that's really important to you. If you've already given a player or a person a lifeline and they understand the accountability and expectations, you kind of have to make the decision that is going to reflect the right way on you as a coach and what you value and the culture you're trying to create. And sometimes that means letting a really talented player go or not coach them anymore or whatever that particular situation is, even though it's really, really, really hard. I remember having to make those types of decisions in my career. They were extraordinarily painful. They were like a gut punch. But I knew if I didn't make the decision that people were watching me and waiting for me to make, I was going to lose all credibility and I was going to really hurt our culture. And I couldn't risk that. For me, culture and integrity is everything. And I'll go find someone else that could be a really good cook or a captain or a volleyball player. Honestly, because there are so many people looking for a chance. You as a coach have to decide what's the most important and at the end of the day that's what you got to stick with.
That's, it's very difficult to do.
