Thank you very much for that warm introduction, and ladies and gentlemen, I'm Dan Murphy from CNBC. I am absolutely thrilled to be sharing the stage with the one and only Brad Garlinghouse. Please make him feel welcome again. Thank you.
Good to be here. It's easy to say that because it's a Ripple event, but we're lucky to have Dan here also. So glad you all could be here for this closing event, and hopefully we'll share some good insights about what's going on in the world.
So we were just talking backstage about how I really get the sense right now that there is no better time, no better place, no better country, no better city to be having a conversation about the state of crypto and crypto regulation, digital assets and alternatives. So walk me through how you're seeing the ecosystem in this country, in this city right now, and why you've gone long on Dubai.
Yeah, look, there's no question we made a decision, frankly, back in 2020 when we first opened an office here. We have seen, as a very global company, you see different jurisdictions, different governments lean in, some lean out of what's going on in digital assets. And certainly what has happened here in Dubai, I think, has been really remarkable. And it is not unique to only Dubai, but certainly one of a handful of countries we're seeing very progressive, constructive engagement from regulators creating frameworks so that you actually have clear rules of the road from a regulatory point of view. And that invites capitalism, that invites entrepreneurs, that invites investment. And I think Dubai truly has the opportunity to truly be one of the crypto capitals of the world. And so we decided to have it here in Dubai to kind of express both our gratitude and engage in this community. And the Dubai HQ is now open for business. XRP is operating and licensed in the DIFC.
So some big regulatory steps forward here for you. What do you see as the runway in the region when it comes to adoption moving forward? What's the opportunity and what's the potential?
Yeah, look, I think this is a really important question because I think for all of us, and as you've heard over the last couple of days, you know, crypto for it to be successful in the long term in a very macro sense, it can't just be about speculative interest. There is plenty of speculative uses in traditional fiat currencies or other commodities. I truly believe both for what's going on in the XRP ecosystem, companies like Ripple need to demonstrate there is real utility in solving real-world problems. And that's happening even here in Dubai. A company called Sologenic doing interesting things on XRPL. So it's not just around payments, it's not just around what Ripple's doing, but I think for the whole industry to achieve where we think it needs to go, you have to have the combination of the regulators engaging and creating that constructive framework that you can build around with entrepreneurs building the utility. And look, I think it is such an amazing time to be alive, to be working on blockchain technologies because there's so many different ways I truly believe that they're going to rewire how transactions happen. And I'm not, again, I'm not just up here talking about what Ripple is doing. I'm talking about blockchain at large, and it's going to touch many different industries in many different ways. For Ripple, had you told me maybe the first time you and I met years ago that Ripple would be in a position of doing billions of dollars of transactions, you know, we've made a ton of progress. We also have a long way to go, and that's the exciting thing for doing events like this and having customers and having other entrepreneurs up talking about what's going on.
Probably lots of capital allocators in the room as well. I'm sure a lot of people working in traditional finance too. What do you think the response has been from institutions in this part of the world, and how do you drive more institutional adoption?
Well, I think the first thing to drive more institutional adoption is to have that real utility. I think, well, I guess there's two things I think about to have really robust institutional adoption on a global scale: clear rules of the road, regulators engaging constructively. And again, I, you know, because I'm based in the United States, I probably spend too much time thinking about the US. It is still 22 or 23% of global GDP, but the US is way behind on creating, you know, those constructs, particularly in contrast to the Dubai of the world. But so you have to have that, the frameworks for big institutions to adopt and engage. And then I think you also have to have the demonstrated utility because again, crypto, if it's just speculation, you know, that is not, in my judgment, the promised land. And I am very bullish about a whole bunch of different things going on in crypto. I certainly am active in trying to dissuade people from being maximalists about any particular crypto. It will be a multi-chain world, and I think certainly the XRP Ledger is incredibly efficient and incredibly effective in some use cases. There's other use cases that other chains will be more appropriate, and I think that's fabulous for the whole industry.
Let's talk about regulation. Obviously a big focus on regulation here in Dubai, where you're seeing some positive momentum, perhaps some positive momentum now in the United States as well. The SEC has cleared you and Chris Larsen at the same time. That was a good thing for sure. At the same time, XRP is not a security, as it turns out. I think this audience always felt that way, so it had we convincing the rest of the world. But yes, so do you see this as a positive step forward for the ecosystem in the United States? The SEC, look, from a purely independent standpoint here, has suffered a big loss.
Yeah, well, it's not just one loss, to be clear. I, you know, Ripple has had three consecutive victories over the SEC on this. First, the judgment on July 13th saying very clearly XRP is not in and of itself a security. Second, the denial by the court for their request for an interlocutory appeal. And third, the dismissal with prejudice of the charges, the allegations against Chris Larsen and myself. So, you know, look, one of the things that people talk about is one of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and thinking you'll get a different outcome. The SEC is doing the same thing over and over again, and they think, I guess, they're going to get a different outcome at some point. And you and I talked also backstage about Grayscale also had, I think, an important victory in the United States about the Bitcoin ETF, where the judge, again, there's a federal judge talking about a federal agency in the SEC saying, quote, the SEC is being arbitrary and capricious. You know, generally judges tend to be pretty, you know, down the middle and try to not be dramatic. Like, those are damning words. So I think at some point the SEC has to step back and realize that their approach of regulation through enforcement, let's just bring lawsuits, that has to break. You and I also joked backstage. I actually just landed here in Dubai. I was in Washington yesterday on stage at an event, and the first question I got was, are you going to be visiting the SEC while you're in DC? And you know, she meant to ingest, but I actually think it was a really interesting contrast. When I'm going to London, when I'm going to Dubai, regulators want to meet. They want to have a dialogue between industry and government about, yes, these are new technologies. How should we think about them? Are they different? If they are different, great. Let's think about what should new constructs be. What new constructs could be created? Unfortunately, that's not what you're seeing in the SEC. Now, that being said, and as you noted with multiple losses under the SEC's belt, I think you're seeing louder and louder voices on Capitol Hill. You know, getting legislation passed in the United States is always a tricky topic. But you even yesterday, Tom Emmer, the majority whip, tweeted out some very, very more aggressive things that I say on Twitter, which is, you know, it was notable. But I'm hopeful that as more and more people realize that the SEC's approach is driving capital and innovation and entrepreneurs outside the United States, I'm hopeful that, you know, reasonable minds will realize that this is not the right approach. Countries like the UK, countries like Switzerland, Singapore, here in the UAE, they have a constructive approach that's inviting entrepreneurship. It's building and, you know, creating jobs. This is what we should want.
So walk me through the next steps in this case. Today was the deadline for the briefing schedule for remedies. The SEC wants something like $770 million in discouragement. What happens next?
Well, I, in a session that I did in Washington yesterday, I made the joke around I'd like to see the Vegas odds on, you know, what could be the, what's called the remedies from the case. Look, I think we, the SEC, in my opinion, has lost sight of their mission to protect investors. And the question is, who are they protecting in this journey? And it turns out that the court will make, the judge will make a decision about remedies. We actually welcome that. I think that in this case, you look at what investors were harmed, and you also have to look at the securities laws and understand are there exemptions for institutional and, you know, accredited investors and things like that. But look, I think it is a positive step for the industry, not just for Ripple, not just for Chris and Brad, but for the whole industry that the SEC has been put in check in the United States. And I'm hopeful this will be kind of a thawing of the permafrost in the United States for, you know, really seeing an amazing industry that has immense potential thrive in the largest economy in the world.
So am I correct in assuming that there will be remedies in this case, and ultimately it'll be the courts that decide what that dollar value is?
I think that is a reasonable assumption. I think there's a chance, and the judge, I think this is all public information, the judge has asked for parties to discuss settlement discussions. I think, you know, judges like to, you know, push things out of the court process. But look, the most important things that mattered in this case, the SEC, you know, I was quoted as saying, you know, we drove a freight train through the core of their argument. You know, Gary Gensler going out and saying all digital assets are securities. You know, very clearly that's not the case. And look, I think the SEC still has an opportunity to engage constructively with the legislature to create clearer rules that allows the industry to thrive. It's going to thrive, by the way. It just may not thrive as quickly in the United States. It is thriving in Dubai. It is thriving in London. It is thriving in Switzerland. So look, the opportunity, not just for Ripple, but the opportunity for the industry remains just profoundly large. And I think eventually the US will get there. If you zoom out far enough, this industry's only been around 10 or 12 years. If you zoom out far enough, I think 10 years from now we won't be having this conversation, and the US will absolutely be one of the leaders in this space. In the meantime, the Dubais of the world are getting ahead, and I think that's fabulous.
