Like I never would have thought about that. This is my seat today.
Sweating already. Oh my god. Cass underplays how frustrated she was. You were really frustrated.
Oh, it pisses me off. It really makes my blood boil.
I remember that moment where like the blood leaves your face and I realize like I violated my own rule from chapter nine of my own book where I say talk about it early and it was true.
I think of the things that we've gone through in our marriage and it's been really tough sometimes.
It was pretty hard. It was hard because I'm like why are we not combining our finances? I wanted to do it on my own to prove to myself and to prove to Ramit like I'm fine on my own.
Are there any recurring themes to things that you guys regularly disagree on when it comes to money?
Ooh, okay. That's never going to happen.
Times when we have had fights and then the next morning we have a money meeting. I'm like, 'Oh, this money meeting.'
We have our own challenges years into getting married and it's hard.
We've been joking over the last few days about what your worst nightmare would be on this podcast.
Yeah. What is it? Oh, is it happening right now? Oh my god.
Welcome to the Money for Couples Show. I am your host today, Julie Nuin. And today's guests are Ramit and Cass.
Let's go. I'm way more nervous about this than any podcast I've ever done. I've been told I need to work on being more vulnerable.
So, today I'm doing something I have never done and it made me really nervous. More nervous than shooting my Netflix show. More nervous than going on tour. On today's episode, my wife Cassandra and I are in the hot seat. We are being interviewed by my longtime friend Julie Nuin. We wanted to do this podcast because people are always asking how Cassandra and I manage our money.
How do we actually do it behind the scenes? How does it work if you make different amounts of money or you have a prenup or you see money differently? And for years, I've kept that private. But today, I'm in the hot seat, and so is Cassandra. The truth is that our relationship, like a lot of yours, is complex. We come from different backgrounds. We kept separate finances for years. We both run our own businesses, different incomes, strong opinions about money, and a prenup. We got a lot of things to talk about.
But this episode is not just about the hard stuff and the differences in how we see money. It's also about how to bring those differences together. How you can learn and laugh and mess up and still stay connected. So today, in part so that I can be more vulnerable with you, I handed over the mic. Julie is one of my best friends. She was also a roommate. She knows all of my embarrassing stories. She's also known Cassandra since we met. So let's get into it.
Julie, you have known Ramit a very long time.
We have a long history like friends, classmates, roommates, professional contacts, all of it. And yeah, it's been awesome.
It feels like just yesterday you were recording these YouTube videos in the bedroom like right next to mine. Yeah. And every time I couldn't find my makeup mirror, okay, I was like trying to do my makeup, I would go in and it would be on Ramit's desk. It had like a vanity light on it.
That's what he used to light those YouTube videos. Are there any recurring themes to things that you guys regularly disagree on when it comes to money?
Wow, good question. I think one is around the rules. Yeah. Like I'm more like we set a rule, we keep it, and I'm like, you know, we're going to have to revisit sometimes.
And I'm like, what's that word? I never heard that word.
And it's okay if we like break the rule and stuff because sometimes we need to. So that's why I do think that you really like to blend money and feelings, money and where are we in our relationship? Yes.
And I think that shows up a lot. And for me, like I'm just like, let's hit this number question that we have. Like we need to answer this question about which account should this be in. And I think that both of us have like tried to meet in the middle and come up with creative solutions for it.
Sometimes you really just need to talk about it. I don't think that's ever going to change either. It's just one of those things like it's not worth revisiting all the time and that's okay. But for me personally, they do coexist and when times when we have had fights and then the next morning we have a money meeting, I'm like, 'Oh, this money meeting, I don't want to have it right now.' You know, and so it will always just coexist for me. Whereas you can compartmentalize.
Yeah. Also, I think there have been times, especially when I was writing my book, where I didn't. I'm supposed to like send the agenda out for the money meeting and I didn't. In fact, I let it go for like over a month sometimes. And Cass would bring it up like, 'Hey, you're supposed to be in charge of this. You would never miss a meeting at work ever. So, why are you missing this meeting?' When she told me that, I was like, 'Oh, you're right. Let me fix it.' And I did fix it for a while, but then it went back. And then she brought it up again.
And finally, I was like very embarrassed because here I am writing a book about money for couples and I'm not even following up by setting the freaking money meeting that I'm writing about. Yes, it's important to me. Why am I not following through on this thing? I would never miss an equivalent meeting at work. And it's so crazy. The thing that I realized was our meetings were scheduled at like 7:00 p.m. What work am I scheduling at 7 p.m.? None. Because by that time we're tired or somebody had to go out for a dinner meeting or something like that.
So I was like, 'Okay, as crazy as this sounds, I think that one of the reasons is that we're not taking this seriously because it's at 7 p.m. I'm not taking it. So can we move it?' And she was like, 'Okay.' So, we moved it to 9:00 a.m. on this one day and like that is what it deserves. It deserves to be in business hours so that we are both fresh, ready to go. We talked about what's in that meeting. We sort of simplified that, but it's the time that made the difference.
And I think for me, cuz you had missed a few of them, like to the point where I could feel the resentment kind of building and cuz I took it personally, right? Because it's connected for me. And so at one point I was just like, 'Okay, I've addressed it with him. He's an adult. He can figure it out.' And you did. So I had to kind of let you go off on your own and do it.
I'm wondering, was there ever a money conversation you guys had that was the hardest one where maybe it almost tore you apart?
I'm sweating thinking about it right now. Yes.
I was going to say prenup as well. 100%.
Prenup. Um, first time I brought it up, I remember I had like talked to so many people, gotten advice, planned what I was going to say and I was very nervous about it and you received it really well. I remember what you said, you know, hey, I wasn't expecting this, but I don't know much about it, but I'm willing to learn. I was like, wow, amazing.
For me, I knew we were getting married, so I'm like, I'm not trying to negotiate this in a way that I come out like winning and she loses. It was like we're in this together. So my natural inclination is I want to propose something that is so generous there can be no question about what I want from this. And I remember cuz I was like I want you to never have to worry about money because we don't have to worry about money. We get this amazing opportunity to live our rich life and help our family and things like that. So you know lawyers put together this thing and I was like cool like this is going to be great.
It was not. And I was like shocked because I'm like, whoa. And we're talking about big numbers. And we started going back and forth and I was very confused, like very hurt because I'm like, I'm not trying to trick anybody here. And I think that that was when it started to get very difficult.
And it all changed when you said like, 'Hey, this isn't really going well. Let's go see somebody.' And then we walked down the street to that therapist just like we found them on Yelp. And that question she asked us like, 'How do you see money?' And that really opened up conversations that we hadn't been able to have cuz my answer was like, um, growth of course, like look at the compounding. And her answer was safety. Like huh?
I was like I don't want to be possibly divorced sitting outside of a house with rain coming down and dark clouds.
I was like look at these numbers. That's literally impossible. But in retrospect, you were not asking me to pull out a spreadsheet. You were feeling this. Looking back, I needed to listen to what you were saying. I should have been asking more questions. I should have used the freaking wheel of emotions cuz I didn't know how to describe my feelings. I wasn't raised talking about my feelings. And you also needed to become more adept with numbers and to be able to merge between feelings and numbers and logistics.
Yeah. And I'll never forget something Ramit said to me during that time. You were like, 'I really need you to get better at money.' And I took that very seriously because deep down inside I was like, 'I know I'm not that great at money. You know, I could get better.' And so that's when I started reading the books, hired a coach, like journaling, all the things.
She hired a coach. I never even asked her who the coach was cuz I'm afraid if I find out who it is, I'm going to be so mad. Who is this coach who's talking about money psychology that you hired? But in retrospect, that was totally the right move. You can't learn from somebody who you're talking to about this. You have to find your own way. And you did it. Like you put in tons of work. I remember you would lose your breath when we were talking about money.
Yeah. I would physically feel it. Yeah. Like anxious and stuff.
You would run out of breath and you'd have to like... And that doesn't happen anymore.
And I think a lot of our experiences from that kind of bled into our marriage. And until we started having those tougher conversations about like why do you really feel that way and what's beneath that, we started to uncover. For me at least, it was a lot because of what happened in the prenup and how I felt at that time.
And thinking back to the prenup, I feel like I was a completely different person then. I was more scarce with money. So I didn't think abundantly with like I can earn more. I can start a business. I can do this and that. And so I was like okay I need to keep what's mine. And Ramit was always very like this is why I'm doing this and he always explained why. And so the prenup because I didn't grow up with anyone who had prenups around me. So I had to do my own research and then the advice online is horrible for women as well. And so really kind of sifting through all of that info was tough. But yeah, the prenup was really tough.
We've been joking over the last few days about what your worst nightmare would be on this podcast.
Yeah. What is it? Oh, is it happening right now? Oh my god.
Your team was able to send me. So, we are going to dig into the numbers. Your CSP.
Oh, wow. You know what? I'm not even phased because I know you don't have it. I know it. I know that. It's called confidentiality, people. Damn.
Although our CSP would make no sense.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense. It would make no sense. We have no assets. Well, aside from investments, but we have...
What is the biggest asset? Like a sweater?
Yeah, maybe. I don't know. Jewelry. Yeah, we have basically very few assets and yeah, it just makes no sense.
Yeah, it wouldn't make any sense. But I see you sweating.
I know. I don't want that CSP. People be like, 'What? Why do you spend that much on guilt-free spending?' Like, 'Cuz I like to travel.' I wouldn't want people to see your CSP.
I kind of basically know, I'm close enough to you guys. People wouldn't understand if they don't know you well. That's the thing.
Yeah. But actually, I think that when I see somebody who has like a crazy way that they spend money, I actually admire it as long as they can afford it. I'm like, 'Oh, you spend this much on clothes or you spend that much donating, whatever it is.' I'm like, 'That's cool. If you can afford it, the more dialed in your rich life becomes, the more weird your finances will become.' And that's normal. Like, it should be. The more unique you create your own vision. So, I think we've done that together progressively over many years.
Yeah, definitely. I want you each to talk about what you did leading up to this podcast because it highlights how different your personalities are.
Yes. So, we had a party this weekend at our place and I thought it would be fun to have these finger tattoos available to everyone except I was the only one who used them and they came on and they were so light. So, I was like, I'm just going to put them on all my fingers. So, I did. And then last night, I spent an hour trying to get them off. And I was like, oh well, it's fine.
She looked at me and she goes, 'Babe, they're not coming off. These are not coming off. What should I do?' I'm like, 'I don't know.' And I looked it up. And then it didn't come off. And then she just goes, 'Whatever.' I'm like, 'Babe, they're right on your fingers. They're going to see everyone looking like a felon.' Hold that up. Look at this.
I probably should have read the instructions before because these are supposed to last two weeks.
Yeah, she did it two days before we shoot. Anyway, perfect example. You're like, why, go with the flow? It's fine. I'm like, did you plan it out? What's in the calendar? I would never...
Well, you even told me last night, I don't even use any body products that are new. I don't eat anything out of the ordinary. I would never use like a different shampoo the day before.
It just never crossed my mind at all.
Yeah. I gifted these two a very nice shampoo and conditioner. I wasn't expecting you to use it before the shoot and then Cass told me she used it. Even I was like, 'Girl, you could have waited one day. Perfect example.'
Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. Yes.
Okay. I want to rewind again. I know Ramit has spoken a lot about his experiences with money growing up and we can revisit those but I'm curious Cass, what was your experience with money growing up?
When I think of my parents and of my childhood I think of just laughing all the time and my parents really instilled in me to have a good sense of humor because life can get tough and all the things but my parents both worked full-time. Their work ethic is like exceptional. I have a brother as well, so it was four of us in the household.
And so whenever my brother and I wanted to do sports or whatever, they would find a way to make it happen. They were always so supportive cuz we didn't travel a lot when I was small. We would just stay in California, do road trips and stuff, but anytime I got the opportunity to go somewhere, they're like, 'Go do it. Like, we'll find a way to make it happen.' And so I'm always so grateful for that.
There were never real conversations about money, but honestly, I think it's cuz my parents were so busy working all the time like they just needed to work and provide and all of that stuff. So, I had a very amazing childhood, but yeah, we didn't really talk about money too much.
Now, Ramit, talk a little bit about what your money experience was growing up.
My parents did not come here with a lot of money. You know, they had an arranged marriage. My mom got on a plane for the first time and comes to America to meet my dad. They met 7 days later, married, and they built this family and sometimes they had to do stuff that like we can't really imagine doing right now. Quite frugal because they had to be.
Please tell the Disneyland story. Oh my god. Cuz I love it.
Oh my god. So, okay. I was born in 1982 and when I was 14, 15 years old, something like that, we went to Disneyland. We didn't go to Disneyland a lot, but we were living in Northern California. Our family trip was typically get in the minivan, drive down to Southern California, stop midway, open up a thermos, which my mom had made lunch and put it in there. We wouldn't eat out at like a McDonald's. Too much money and then keep going and stay with our family in Southern California. Like that was our trip.
This time we went to Disneyland. Disneyland is expensive, but my dad loves a good deal. So, we get to the front and we know that something's going on because he goes, 'Stay there.' And then, but I wanted to listen. Not only does my dad pull out his state ID, not only does he pull out his AAA discount and stack that on top, my dad pulls the most legendary move I've ever seen, he pulls out a check from 1982 and he says, 'Uh, uh, resident Los Angeles, uh, here you go.' Gets the resident discount for all of us. I said, 'Dad, HOW DID YOU KEEP THAT CHECK FOR 15 years?' He never answered. He just smiled. So, we all went to Disneyland that day. Amazing.
Well, there's something very romantic about they had to find a way to have their kids have a nice time, and that's what they had to do.
That's one of my favorite sayings that your mom says, there's always a way.
And she and your dad were always very creative.
Very creative. You know, I later found out my mom was like calling the soccer league like, 'Hey, we can't afford the fees. Like, what can we do?' And they were like, 'If you chalk the fields before the game, we'll waive the fee.' My mom was freaking chalking fields. We didn't even know this. I didn't know this till my 20s just to get us to be able to play soccer. Like, that is crazy.
And I think what my dad in that example and my mom and so many examples is like we're going to find the family joy in whatever we have to do. If we're pulling over on the side of the road and eating lunch that my mom made, like there's joy in that. It's not that we're less than anybody else, that we can't eat at some restaurant. It's just this is what we do. This is family. And I see that in so many lessons now. I look back on what my parents taught me and I talk to them. But that's a great example.
I want you guys to tell me about how you first met and more importantly, what were your first impressions of each other?
Oh, I'll go first. I remember everything. I saw her. I knew I had to get to know her. So, we were at a friend's barbecue. I saw her. She was in the kitchen. It was a daytime barbecue in New York.
No, no, no, no. I don't cook.
We were there and I saw her from across the room. I don't remember what you were wearing, but I was like, she's not from New York. Because she had a big smile and was just like very animated and had a California energy. Okay, I'm from California, so I know that. And I went up to her and I said, 'You don't have to tell me where you're from. I already know you're from California.'
So, I saw her. I knew I had to get to know her. And quite a gamble saying that California thing. It turns out she is from California.
I remember what he was wearing that day. He was wearing a red polo with khaki shorts, which he does not own anymore. That got changed very quickly. Yeah. So, he does not... But I vividly remember that.
And then I also knew like that day that something was different. Especially after we talked, I was like something is here. And I remember women telling me when you know, you know. And I was like, yeah, okay, whatever. But I think I knew that day that this was going to be like something more long-term.
We started going out and I remember on the first date, we went to Mayell on 6th and 2nd. That was a Mexican cocktail bar. And I accidentally spilled an entire cup of water on her accidentally. It was an accident, but it was actually amazing because she just like laughed. She literally just laughed.
That was a moment where I think I just like subconsciously registered it. I love people with a good sense of humor, but especially my wife. Like I knew that the person that I was with had to have a good sense of humor because it's so important to me. And when I saw that, it was a total freak accident that I knocked it over and she just laughed. So the first smile, the first time I saw you, and then the laugh, I was like, 'Oh, there's something here.'
Yeah. I was crying on the inside though cuz I had on a good outfit that night.
So back when you first started dating, what would you have said back then you were looking for in a partner? And now that you've been together for a decade, what do you think actually matters?
I would have said sense of humor, interested in self-improvement, and the same values. I think all those things are true, but I underestimated how important resilience is. Like, it's huge because things happen in life where it's not in your control. And to be able to take it and grieve and process it and then get up the next day and still keep going is like wow that's incredible.
I don't know how you look for resilience. I truthfully don't. I think I got really lucky and I think that we have built trust together where sometimes you just need to lean on your partner and you need to just be like I can't do this on my own. I need help.
As you say resilience, that is so true. And I'm just thinking back to when we were dating like how would you test that? I have no idea.
You pour a glass of water on them at the bar.
Who do you unknowingly... What a great test.
So I would say a sense of humor is very important to me. My parents are hilarious. They have a great sense of humor and they really taught me that and I would have said that back then and you do. We laugh all the time.
But now I think what is most important after everything we've been through is a positive outlook because I think of the things that we've gone through in our marriage and it's been really tough sometimes and to have you being there being so positive and forward-looking and okay here's what we need to get done and stuff has been really amazing and I think it would be really hard to be with someone who didn't have that outlook consistently.
Who brought up money first when you were dating and how did that go?
I probably brought it up, but I think you brought it up seriously.
This is a big mistake. Like I made a big mistake on this one. So Cass had asked me early on for some help with her 401k or something. I was like, you ever heard of a book called I Will Teach You To Be Rich? Read it. And you know, I helped you with your I think work finances.
Because of that, I knew about your salary and basic expenses, but I didn't tell you mine years into dating. And she said, 'It doesn't feel fair. You know everything about my finances, and I don't know anything about yours.' And I remember at that moment like almost that moment where like the blood leaves your face. And I realized like I violated my own rule from chapter nine of my own book where I say, 'Talk about it early.' And it was true.
And in the back of my head, I know why I didn't share it earlier. I love understanding money. I love building the systems of money. I love earning and spending money, but I don't like talking about the specific details of my own money. And so, I remember we had one of the best conversations we've ever had where I was like, 'Here it is.' And it felt weird because I had never told anyone except like professional people who need to know certain numbers.
But I also felt really proud. I felt really proud because what I had built took a lot of work, like a lot of dedication, a lot of luck and to be able to share that like it meant that we could create a kind of life that like most cannot imagine and the questions are different. It's like what do we want to do in our rich life? So, it felt amazing.
Wait, can you help me understand something? Just because like if I were in your shoes and I had a big bank account, I wouldn't feel afraid to tell my partner my money. I always assume it would be like people in the opposite situation. So, can you help me understand why you were resistant to share your numbers for so long when they were technically like healthy numbers, you know what I mean?
Like I'm a public figure, but in many ways I'm very private. And it was only when Cass pointed out that I had not proactively, which is like I regret that, that's when I started to open up. And then I think that was what allowed us to start connecting more.
Yeah. The funny thing is when we met, I had no idea who he was, what he did, anything. And I think I asked you, 'Oh, what do you do?' Cuz people asked that in New York. And you're like, 'Oh, I'm an author.' And then that was it. And so you were very modest about everything.
But after he had shared that with me, I was like, 'Wow, he's worked really hard to get to that point.' And as a business owner now, I'm like, 'It totally makes sense. I would probably have done the same thing and approached it the same way.' So, it also helped me have a lot of empathy, too.
I want to talk about the proposal a little bit.
We were dating pretty seriously and it was very clear like we were both in this for the long term. We loved each other. We had met each other's families. And we sat down. We still have the Google calendar invite. And it was like all these agenda items and she goes, 'Uh, there is one other thing. I would like to be engaged by Q1 of next year.' And I was like, 'Did you just speak in financial quarters because you are truly the dream woman of my life?' And that's exactly what happened. And she had made it clear like this is when I want to be proposed to.
Wow. And then I also had sent him an email. Oh yeah. With rings that I liked.
So, I detailed like I like this cut. I like this metal. Do what you want with this, but here's some details to help guide you.
I love that. That made it so easy.
All right. So, how did he propose, Cass?
Oh, it was very special and very thoughtful. He said to me, 'We're going to go do a cooking class.' And he's like, 'Wear something nice.' And I was like, 'Oh, okay.' You know, the Spidey sense kind of starts to go up.
Yeah. Well, I didn't know this. What the hell? Okay.
Cuz we had talked about getting engaged and all this. So, I knew it was coming at some point and then I had my nails done. I was like all ready to go and we went into Little Italy and you had arranged a baking class and then there was like a back room but I could see through the curtains that there was like a table and some flowers on it and stuff.
So, while things were baking, Ramit was like, 'Oh, follow me back here to this room.' And I knew I was like, 'Oh my gosh, it's coming. It's coming.' And he did. He proposed then and that was very special.
And so he had to arrange a photographer. So we went out to do photos. We came back and he flew my parents in and his parents and sisters and brother were there and all of our friends and we had a party that night, our engagement party. And so it was really special.
Yeah, that was an awesome, awesome day.
It was very thoughtful. Cass, you mentioned you had a scarcity mindset around money and now you have an abundance mindset around money. Can you share what kind of inner work you've had to do to make that transition?
Yeah, it was a lot of work and I think it was just a lot of going inwards honestly. Why am I thinking this way? Do I really believe I can't earn money or I don't deserve X or Y? And so the journaling and the mantras that I would repeat to myself over and over really helped. But it was a lot of introspection and that was really illuminating for me.
Because I thought when you're in a marriage everything should just flow and it works and all this stuff where in reality like I personally knew that I had to do a lot of work on my thoughts and what I believed and how that was going to impact us as husband and wife and that has paid off so much.
It was a lot of work, but in hindsight, I'm so glad that I did it because that then has cascaded into me advocating for myself more in our relationship, outside of the relationship, being a better business owner. So many ways it has impacted my life.
I love it. Wait, wait. What was the mantra that you said? I didn't know this.
Oh, yeah. There's a lot of mantras. Money flows to me easily.
Oh, that is one. Yeah. So, and the implication is I deserve money. Is that it?
I can earn money. I can attract money. Money likes me.
Nice. All of that instead of scarce. Yeah.
Yeah. I better protect everything I have.
Yeah. And it was so interesting, too, because working a corporate job for so long, you kind of know your path, right? You know the next promotion, what the salary is going to be, possible bonus. But now as a business owner, the sky is the limit. And so that transition mentally for me going from corporate worker to business owner has really helped me as well become more abundant too.
That is so different than my approach because when we met, I had been running my own business for 15 years. And I knew if I want to make more money, here's what I need to do. And if I want to take a three-week vacation or a five-week vacation, I can do that, too. And I remember a roommate would be like, 'Yeah, I'll just make more money.' And I'm like, 'What? You just make more money?' Like what?
During COVID, I remember she told me this thing. I was taking a nap on our couch. It was like 3:00 p.m. on a Tuesday. Yeah. I was like, I thought nothing of it. I like to take a nap. And then she later told me, she goes, 'I saw you taking a nap.' She's like, 'You have all these people working for you and like you're on TV and this and that and you're just like taking a nap.' She's like, 'That's what I want.' I was like, 'That's actually awesome because I do love the freedom to be able to take a nap.'
Yeah. That actually really inspired me.
Yeah. And now you've done it.
It's amazing. So, I love that example that we both take from each other about like, 'Oh, you do that in your business. What? That's possible now because I think you're abundant and we're both abundant.'
It's been great staying with you and seeing you both sleeping in the middle of the day.
Cass, for years you kept your money separate from Ramit's. I want to understand what made you so hesitant to combine your money and then what was it that finally changed that made you willing to take the leap at last?
Yeah, that has been quite a journey for myself. When I think back to when we were dating and then we got the prenup and newly married, I wanted to do it on my own despite us being married and like to prove to myself and to prove to Ramit like I can earn money like I'm fine on my own. I don't need to ask for help. And I had like a real sense of pride in that as well.
And so just recently we started really digging into that a little bit more and I started thinking independently. Why am I thinking this way? Like is it serving me? Is it serving us? How does Ramit feel about that as well? And it was very nerve-wracking for me to go to him and be like, 'Okay, I'm ready to do things jointly now, you know.' And I think Ramit had always pushed and advocated for us to do our money jointly. How was that for you to like find out?
Oh my god. I was like, 'This is what I've been talking about for like 6 years.' It felt awesome.
And I think back to why I thought that way for so long. And honestly, it surrounded me like growing up with girlfriends, you always want to keep money for yourself just in case. And you know, Ramit is so awesome. He's such a loving husband. I'm like, why am I not giving him a chance? And so, it's been a...
A little bit since we transitioned now, and I still kind of get nervous from time to time, but we talk it through together and yeah, have good conversations about it. It's still work in progress, though. Still work in progress.
I think that's pretty surprising to a lot of people. I mean, because we talk about joint, and if you look on the internet, everyone's like, when you're married, everything comes together. But you know, you mentioned this whisper in your mind about I need to have a little bit for myself, and it was what surrounded you. I think that's really common. Really common.
Personally, it was pretty hard. Like emotionally, it was hard because I'm like, why are we not combining our finances? Our future is together. So how can we not? But then logistically, that was also very challenging because you're a business owner, I'm a business owner. We're going to have joint money, but we're also going to have separate. And our setup was so complicated early on. It was like every quarter if we have to do an analysis of our distributions, then we need to reapportion things because we're paying proportionally and we're married. And it was like so complicated. And I'm not trying to do this analysis myself. So it was like so much work, and then having to go back to each other and say like, well, you got to transfer this much to this account is so burdensome. But for us to finally be able to put everything into that joint account feels awesome. It just feels natural because that's our future. It's together.
Yeah. And it's funny because Ram would do these podcasts and he'd be like, yeah, they didn't want to put their money jointly together. And I'm like, oh, really? Oh, I wasn't trying to send you a secret message.
No, I know. I know. But in retrospect, we're just like everybody else. We are living it. We have our own challenges. Years into getting married, we're still tweaking things. And that gives me a lot of compassion because it's hard. It's hard. And you're successful as an entrepreneur and very empathetic. And I've been doing this for 20 plus years and it's hard for us. So, you know, it's hard for other people, too.
Yeah. We can really empathize with all the guests.
So, now that you've taken that leap, how has it affected your relationship?
Yeah, it has been positive to know that we're working towards this together. If he does well, I do well, vice versa. And if you enjoy something, I enjoy it and vice versa. It's been really relaxing for me.
I feel like the day we decided, it immediately eased, like immediately. There was a noticeable connection in our relationship that was there before, but we had to work to get it. It was like going from teammates to true teammates.
Definitely. That's like a new level of trust, I would say.
Oh, I love that description. So, there were times then when you were advising other couples to merge their finances completely when you guys hadn't done that yet.
So I did talk to couples where I'm like, yeah, it makes a lot of sense for you to combine. And ours was combined, but not 100%.
Got it. Okay. I want us to take the time now for you to walk us through your entrepreneurial journey and everything you had to go through to become the kind of woman who can sit here today, sit at the table, not just as Ramit's romantic partner, but as a powerhouse in her own right.
Yeah, it was quite a journey. And Ram has been along for the whole ride. I worked a corporate job in the fashion industry, 9 to 5. I was a fashion merchandiser and buyer. And then Ramit had an idea one day and he said, you're really good at styling. Have you ever thought about starting a business? And I said, no way. I have never ever thought about it. And then we went to a friend's wedding and I pitched my services there and I didn't know how to do an invoice. I didn't know anything and I got a client that night and then that was the beginning of Next Level Wardrobe. So it has been a really rewarding journey and it's been fun to have him as my support system along the way.
