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Arthur Hayes
Co-Founder, BitMEX & Chief Investment Officer, Maelstrom, BitMEX

Arthur Hayes: The Next 14 Days Will Trigger The Most Aggressive Bull Run Ever

📅 Oct 19, 2026 Money Talks 21 MIN 5962 VIEWS 81 SEGMENTS · 3 SPEAKERS
It's the anniversary of Black Monday, the AI trade just had its ugliest week in a long time, and Bitcoin is coiled tighter than it has been in years. Here's what crypto traders saw over the weekend before Wall Street even opened, why China's surprise numbers matter, and where the money could run next. ✅ Black Monday 1987 vs. today: why traders are nervous ✅ What tokenized AI stocks did on crypto exchanges over the weekend ✅ The Nasdaq's rough week and the earnings that could decide what's next ✅ Bitcoin's Bollinger squeeze: one of the tightest in years ✅ China's growth beat, and why it may del...

What Arthur Hayes said

Written from the verified transcript and checked against it. Every figure links to the moment it was said.

Arthur Hayes, BitMEX co-founder and Maelstrom CIO, argued AI is a money-losing business, citing Anthropic's leaked S1 showing $2 cost per $1 revenue. He predicts the bigger the AI bubble, the bigger the eventual US government bailout, which will drive Bitcoin higher. Hayes discussed the agentic economy, saying AI agents should value a decentralized 'flop' currency over USDC or fiat, potentially worth more than Bitcoin based on Metcalfe's or Reed's law. He criticized high-FDV, low-float token sales, praising Hyperliquid for passing revenue to token holders. Hayes predicted Ethereum will be the best-performing mega cap, potentially exceeding $5,000. He expects China to accelerate yuan printing within 6-12 months, boosting scarce assets. He dismissed MicroStrategy's Michael Saylor as irrelevant for Bitcoin's price, and said central banks will buy gold, not Bitcoin.

Key takeaways

  1. AI is a waste of money; Anthropic loses $2 for every $1 revenue, making Bitcoin the hedge against the inevitable bailout.
  2. Ethereum will be the best-performing mega cap crypto and will exceed $5,000.
  3. China will massively change monetary policy in the next 6-12 months to reflate its economy, boosting scarce assets.
  4. AI agents will use a decentralized 'flop' currency rather than USDC or fiat, creating a network worth more than Bitcoin.
  5. Central banks will buy gold, not Bitcoin, in response to economic pressures.

Numbers and commitments

FigureWhat it refers toTypeAt
$2 Cost per $1 revenue for Anthropic metric 0:00
$5,000 Ethereum price prediction other 8:53
6 to 12 months Timeline for China monetary policy change timeline 10:26
95% Retail loss on high-FDV tokens commitment 5:54

Chapters

  1. 0:00AI bubble and Bitcoin hedge
  2. 2:14Agentic economy and flop currency
  3. 4:21Tokenized TradFi and stablecoin centralization
  4. 5:20High-FDV token criticism
  5. 8:25Ethereum outperformance prediction
  6. 9:08Money printing and China reflation
  7. 13:26Stablecoin dollarization risk
  8. 14:34MicroStrategy and Saylor irrelevance
  9. 15:46Central banks buying gold

Questions asked in this interview

9
  1. 2:36Can you back me to the math of that?
  2. 3:53Like, what's a I guess like what are people not thinking about with with a trend like that?
  3. 6:20... for my bags, but does that mean at least the smart money, or most money now is going to pile into that smaller group of assets that the ceilings of the things that are sustainable is probably much higher than we've had in previous cycles?
  4. 6:46Or into the one asset that's been sitting in a corner, ignored for months?
  5. 8:58What would that put it at? Like 20,000?
  6. 11:03What do you do we respond to that?
  7. 15:30Do you think that that trend then is done of Datsun and all the large S&P 500 companies buying Bitcoin and putting it on their treasury?
  8. 15:46So do you think we are going to see central banks like the game theory of which one's going to be the first to buy Bitcoin?
  9. 16:03Do you remember what you said?
Arthur Hayes 0:00 ↗
But now, I think pretty much everyone recognizes that AI is a waste of money in most cases. Like Anthropic, the leak of their S1, for every one dollar revenue, it cost them two dollars of cost. That's a bad business.
So, and if you think about like the end customer for all of AI, you know, Western AI is either Anthropic, OpenAI, or SpaceX. None of those companies makes money. So, the market says we are not willing to pay you a price commensurate with the amount of money it cost you to deliver this service. Yet, these companies continue, right? They raise debt, they raise equity. They essentially have an implicit government backstop from the US government, and that's allowed them to continue wasting money.
And so, now that pretty much everyone has recognized this, I think that everyone's trading now on how big is the bailout going to be.
Interviewer 0:51 ↗
Yeah.
Arthur Hayes 0:51 ↗
Right? And so, that's the perfect time for crypto. This is why the bigger the AI bubble grows, the bigger the bailout will be, the higher Bitcoin goes. And so, I think we have long passed the point of everyone recognizing like none of this makes any money.
If it did make money, it'd be a different story, and then I could say, "Okay, yes, this is going to suck up capital because you're making a positive return on the capital to provide these AI tokens to people. Let's do as much of it as possible." But, that's obviously not the case. We are wasting money, and Bitcoin is there to show us that we're wasting money.
Narrator 1:22 ↗
39 years ago today, on a Monday morning in October 1987, traders walked onto the floor of the New York Stock Exchange and watched the market fall more than 22% in a single day. No headline caused it. No single villain. Just oil tension in the Persian Gulf, worries about interest rates, and computers selling to other computers until panic fed on itself. They called it Black Monday. Now, fast forward to this weekend. Oil is flirting with $110. Bond yields are near 5%. The AI trade that carried Wall Street all year just had its ugliest week in a long time. And while the stock market was closed and everyone was asleep, something strange happened on crypto rails. Something that tells you exactly where the new early warning system for global markets now lives. And then there's Bitcoin sitting perfectly still like a spring being pressed down harder and harder. So, let's watch and discover.
Interviewer 2:14 ↗
Like flop.
Arthur Hayes 2:14 ↗
So, we the that well, hopefully I hope flop is the currency, but the whatever the currency of agent of commerce, theoretically that network should be worth more than Bitcoin, I think. Because if you're you have way more agents or economic agents doing stuff, they do it 24/7, they do it essentially at the speed of light. And so, if you think about that network, it should be extremely valuable.
Interviewer 2:36 ↗
Can you back me to the math of that?
Arthur Hayes 2:37 ↗
Worth more than Bitcoin.
So, the theoretical maximum is two to the n, n being the number of agents. That's Reed's law, right? And then I'd say it'll be minimum is Metcalfe's law, n squared, right? That's like kind of like the Bitcoin valuation metric. So, it's somewhere in between there. There's some sort of coefficient to that. Don't know what that is, but if we believe that the agentic economy is going to be bigger than the human economy, and agents are starting from zero today, right? There's no incumbent currency that they have to use like with humans, right? We kind of have to use fiat currency for a lot of things. Bitcoin is, you know, done very well over the last 15 years, but it's still only what, like two trillion-ish market cap asset. But we're saying, here is a new life form. This life form can do stuff 24/7 frictionlessly speed of light. There's no incumbent network that they have to use. They can use whatever they choose. So, that network should be the most valuable payments network ever created.
Interviewer 3:28 ↗
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess that's true.
Arthur Hayes 3:30 ↗
Yeah.
Interviewer 3:30 ↗
Just cuz there's no I mean, there's no comparison.
Arthur Hayes 3:32 ↗
Yeah, exactly.
Interviewer 3:33 ↗
And there's like infinite agents.
Arthur Hayes 3:34 ↗
Yeah.
Interviewer 3:36 ↗
I hope you're right.
Arthur Hayes 3:36 ↗
Me, too.
Interviewer 3:37 ↗
I hope my agent figures this out. Tell my agent after this, like figure this out. Listen to what we just talked about. Um going back to crypto a little bit. If this site I mean, there's an interesting trend with tokenized equities and and uh there's a lot of questions as to whether or not we actually capture the value or if that all goes to BlackRock.
Arthur Hayes 3:52 ↗
Right.
Interviewer 3:53 ↗
But it does seem like a much more sustainable trend. If this cycle dwarfs kind of the previous ones, where we have like NFTs, and that's the driver, and then we just die a couple months later, what do you think that leads to? Like, what's a I guess like what are people not thinking about with with a trend like that? A a true super cycle, as you can say. I guess hearing Robinhood CEO Vlad going TV and say this is the super cycle hits a little bit different than when it's Su Zhu. We have like giant billion-dollar companies saying that, versus like one or two funds. That's like it seems like it's kind of here.
Arthur Hayes 4:21 ↗
I'm not entirely sure that tokenization as these centralized TradFi institutions talk about it is Well, number one is stablecoins are centralized. So, USDC, right? Jeremy Allaire can decide to cut you off.
Interviewer 4:34 ↗
Yeah.
Arthur Hayes 4:34 ↗
You have no agency in that decision.
Interviewer 4:36 ↗
Yeah.
Arthur Hayes 4:36 ↗
The US government decide to sanction you, again, you have no agency in that decision. The supply of the currency that you are using can change at will by a bunch of people that you have no agency over. And so, if I'm an AI agent, and I have literally no control over this thing, but this is the currency, whatever currency I use, keeps me alive to use compute. And there's all these variables that mean I don't control it, versus a decentralized network where no one can shut it on or off, that you can own a piece of, as owning a you know, some flop currency, and that you could convert that currency directly into compute without going through a few hops of intermediaries. That's why what we believe that AI agents will use the flop currency over, say, 402 and USDC.
Interviewer 5:18 ↗
The ICOs.
Arthur Hayes 5:20 ↗
Then we moved to this sort of like, okay, well, that was maybe not the right way to do it, but so let's just give all this money to the VC and do this private sale thing. So, I'm a project, I have an idea, I do a public sale, these presales, I sell these tokens, I get all this money, I'm supposed to build something.
Interviewer 5:35 ↗
That didn't work.
Arthur Hayes 5:36 ↗
I throw a bunch of parties at Korea Blockchain Week. I I launch my my protocol, once my thing unlocks, I dump my tokens, and then you never hear from me again. So, like, Berachain, Monad, Mega ETH, um Story Protocol IP right here in Korea.
Interviewer 5:50 ↗
Like they were all here last year.
Arthur Hayes 5:52 ↗
I didn't see anybody.
Interviewer 5:52 ↗
I didn't see them. I didn't see them.
Arthur Hayes 5:54 ↗
They're all chilling on the beach. And, you know, and who is the sucker? It's the retail investor who bought at the TG and watched the go down 95%.
And so, I think people have finally been like, "Fuck this. We want to support projects like Hyperliquid, which has product market fit, which takes the revenue that it earns and it passes it back to us as the token holders, and there's not this massive overhang of pre-sold tokens that have to get liquidated because these fiduciaries have to do right by their investors."

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APA, MLA, BibTeX
APA

Hayes, A. (2026, October 19). Arthur Hayes: The Next 14 Days Will Trigger The Most Aggressive Bull Run Ever [Interview transcript]. Money Talks. CEOInterviews.AI. https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/3098138/

MLA

Arthur Hayes. "Arthur Hayes: The Next 14 Days Will Trigger The Most Aggressive Bull Run Ever." Money Talks, 19 Oct. 2026. Transcript, CEOInterviews.AI, https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/3098138/.

BibTeX
@misc{hayes2026_3098138,
  author       = {Arthur Hayes},
  title        = {Arthur Hayes: The Next 14 Days Will Trigger The Most Aggressive Bull Run Ever},
  howpublished = {Interview transcript, Money Talks. CEOInterviews.AI},
  year         = {2026},
  month        = {oct},
  url          = {https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/3098138/},
  note         = {Speaker-attributed transcript with timestamps}
}