What's up everybody! Welcome to All In. We're here live at the Fanatics headquarters with not only my sugar daddy, I'm here with Anthony Tomato, Tony Sharp. Let's kick this thing off. Give us an intro, like, share, subscribe. Very, very special guest today. You know what to do, Marco, give this man an intro.
Am I sugar daddy? We deserve... yeah, you're sugar daddy. All right, let's go. F it, my God, whatever. Long story short, this has been a long time coming. Michael Rubin's here. I don't need to introduce you, I think everybody knows exactly who you are. But we're honored to be here today and I appreciate this. This deal was a long time coming, don't you think?
Way too long. I thought we were like young, fast, entrepreneurial. I think we agreed to this like a year ago. Like you were flirting with me for a long time and then you kind of kicked me to the side.
I would never kick you anywhere. You're my guy. We were like family. First time we met in that Chicago restaurant, I was like, this is my guy.
Yeah, we got along immediately. I will say that, you know, I drank all the shots, you just looked at me. I was looking, I was like a party. You were the person out of the party people.
It was funny because there was like two people talking the whole time and it was him and I literally... yeah, just like, I'm not surprised. Yeah, literally. What percent does he talk with you?
I thought he'd be like 99.
I talk about 78. I get a little... little...
You're killing it by the way. You got 22%.
22%. I'm a big... I like to talk. He's a strong, independent man, you know what I mean? I'm proud of that. You know, the first topic, something that I wanted to talk to you about was everyone sees Michael Rubin the partier, but they don't see Michael Rubin like the entrepreneur. And knowing your history from when you were selling skis, or today was a board of directors meeting, you were in meetings all the way from 9:00 a.m. and then you came into this with me. How do you balance that work, family, party? How do you balance it all?
You know, it's funny that people even have that perception. It doesn't even phase me because, yeah, you see that I do a fun White Party once a year, you see that I do the Super Bowl party. I actually, I don't actually like alcohol. I drink maybe one to two times a month. All I love to do is work. That's my drug. That's what I love to do. Work is so fun for me. I do it generally 17 hours a day, 7 days a week, 350 days a year. So people get a little bit like carried away with the fun things, but like for me, I always say like you do what you love doing. I love to work. It's so fun. Like I work around the smartest people in the world, the best people in the world. I'm always learning, growing. So that's like what I love to do and I've always been that way.
Found these people. How have you... your team is so dynamic. How have you found them all? Has it been you...
Well, you know, when I was a young entrepreneur, I think I was much more of a doer myself. And today we have 22,000 employees. 22,000. And what you learn is that you can only win based on the team you put together. If you study sports, right, you got to get great athletes and then get them to work together, right? You need both to win, right? You have the best talent in the world, but if they don't work together, you're losing. And if you have incredible people who work together but they don't have the talent, it's not going to work. And so for me, what I'm always trying to do is get the best talent and get them to really come together.
Yeah, yeah. I wanted to ask you about that. Can you kind of tell the people what it's like to be such a networker and how this whole thing has kind of evolved to where you've, you know, you've put yourself in position to be such a successful entrepreneur?
Well, I don't think of myself like... I feel like I'm just getting going. Like I really feel that way. So today, even though we have, you know, a business that I've been building for 13 years now, I feel like we're just a big startup. And I always want to have that mentality because it keeps us hungry, keeps us humble, keeps us, you know, kind of grinding at this every single day. And you know, I guess I just feel like I've got the greatest job. Like I have the greatest job in the world to be able to work around so many incredible sports. I mean, we serve, I think we have 115 million fans that have been customers of Fanatics. To work around these incredible fans, these incredible athletes, you know, guys like you, I'm always learning from people. So the thing for me, it's interesting, is because I learned differently. I haven't read a book since 9th grade. People don't believe that. People think I'm going to be self-deprecating when I say I literally got 780 on my SATs combined. Okay, that's pretty bad. Okay, what did you get on your SATs? Higher than that, right? Okay, agreed. So the way I learn is by getting smart people around me and by asking lots of questions. So that's the way I learn. So why am I a good networker? It's because you go to your deficiencies and you figure out how to build around them. And for me, you know, if I can't read, if I'm not a studier, if the way I learn is by getting people around me, I'm always like asking questions, being a sponge.
Well, I guess this leads me to this. Like, I think what something I've always loved about you is not only like our personalities, they mesh very well, but you saying... because we both have mental issues. Yeah, I can't say the word here because I think we'll get canceled. But yes, we have the same mental issues. And long story short though, you love... I think my favorite part about your business, and I'm respectfully when I say this, is the card business. I think the card business is one of the coolest industries in the world. I think it's such a... I don't care if you're 80 years old or if you're four years old, you can get excited about it. And I think that's just so fun. Like, what's the future in that? Do you see it becoming bigger than it is now?
With that question, because before Fanatics entered the business, no one was really thinking about how do you really innovate the products, how do you really innovate the marketing. And there's been so much we've been able to do in a short period of time. Like, it's funny, just as I was walking in here from our board meeting, I was, you know, scrolling through Instagram as I was walking. I saw somebody pulled this big debut patch. Like, that's an example of a product we just created a year ago. No one ever said, you know, all the new athletes that play each year for the first time, why don't we put a patch on their jersey and then after that game take that patch off and put it into a one-of-one card. Well, those are the cards that everyone's chasing right now. And so like, we're always innovating. That was one idea. Or the way we do these rip nights twice a year where we get, you know, more than 100 athletes last year that went to all the different hobby shops, which connect card collecting with the athletes and really just brings people together. And so we're always thinking about how to build a business. But I'll tell you one thing, if you ask me who my favorite kid was, I might be able to tell you. You ask me who my favorite business was, I love them. I honestly... well, each one is so interesting in a different way. Like in the commerce business, which is our Fanatics business where I grew up, that's our biggest business. I've been at it the longest time, 13 years now. But there's so many challenges that we have to make it better for the fan. That's so intellectually interesting. Then you go to collectibles where you're like, well, there's never been good marketing in this business and like we're innovating the product so fast, that's interesting. Then you go into the online sports betting business and iGaming, and that's a business where there's two 800-pound gorillas named FanDuel and DraftKings and we're the underdog. I've never been an underdog in my life.
You are not going to be an underdog anymore.
But I love... by the way, you got to embrace underdog. I love being underdog. It's great. Having people bet against you is great. That makes you work that much harder, gives you that much more energy, gives you that much more passion. I want everyone to bet against me. I love that. It's motivation.
Being 58, I like being bet against too. It just... it's my motivation to really get like going here. So you don't have a favorite business? Like all three of your babies?
We have three babies, I would say, right? We have three babies.
Your three babies plus two kid babies, so I might have five combined. I love that you mentioned you really like bringing people together. And you know, we were at the Fanatics Fest. It was a great event. What can you kind of say, what were the good and the bad takeaways from that? Maybe some things that could potentially change?
What went wrong at that event? We know something went wrong. Well, first of all, every day shit goes wrong. Like if someone doesn't believe that when you run an entrepreneurial, fast-growing company like this... I've been with you guys for five minutes now, if I go look at my phone, there's going to be multiple text messages. Some will be good, some will be bad. That's called life. That's called business. It's kind of like when you look at scores in the game, okay? They're not all great and they're not all bad.
I can say that, okay? Yeah, you got a little experience. Can verify that. Yeah, you got a little experience there.
So for me, that's the action that I love. Like people say... someone just asked me, and I think they thought I was really weird. They asked me a couple nights ago, they said like, you know, Michael, you're telling me all these things about business, like what do you like to do for fun? How do you decompress? I'm like, I work. That's fun. That's your peace. Yeah. They're like, but that's weird. Like you have to have some hobbies. I'm like, no. But I think about what I get to do. I get to... I'm around so many interesting people. I'm doing so many...
I will say you're around the most... you're around the most interesting people in the world. Who's been someone that's...
Well, hold on. I want to go back and answer the question you asked, which is kind of like how do I feel about bringing people together. It goes back to learning. That's the way I learn. So I'm always asking questions. Like you and I talked, I FaceTimed you when I was rooting for your game against the Fanatics sportsbook on Sunday.
I can verify he was trying. He was trying to wheel home a $2 million win for me.
I was... now by the way, everyone else had bet against you as well. So I was on you. You were... I was with you against everybody else.
Yeah, no, nobody thought that you were going to win. But so I'm rooting for you. You said we actually came up with a feature because we're like, you know what, there's been a couple times I've seen your stuff on Instagram. I'm like, man, I just want him to cash out. But like, I don't want to be the one to tell you to cash out because that's the one that's going to win, of course. Okay, so then I'm like, well, we got to have a partial cash out feature. And I literally called you and said, what do you think about this? You're like, yeah, this would be great. And then I was talking to my team, my team's like, oh, we already have it coming. Okay, so it's like that type of interaction is how we learn. So bringing people together is how I learn.
When you do something like Fanatics Fest, oh my God, there's so many things go wrong. Like, let me keep this real with you. I believe that I've like... there's only been a few things in my life I thought like the high visibility things where I'm like, I want to cancel it. Okay, this was the third thing in my life. A month before, I'm like, how did I get myself into this thing? Like, this is shit, it's so hard. It's like, is this going to be the thing that's going to break me and break the organization? Because you're trying to bring so many people together. No one had ever done a sports festival before. And I was going away with my daughter's... went to college for the first year this past year. And so we had a trip planned. I'm like, you know, I want to be human for once and not be on my phone the entire time, of course. And so I'm like, we had this 10-day trip right before, a week before Fanatics Fest. I'm sure that worked out so well.
She always brings a friend and we always have friends around so I can kind of sneak off and be on the phone. But anyway, I'm like, I want to cancel this thing because... and by the way, we only had like a month, maybe three weeks before. We had maybe 6,000 tickets sold, 8,000 tickets. So I'm like, you have this fear of like, you do this crazy big event, it's not gonna work. Are people not gonna show up? Okay, it's like a crazy fear I have.
No, it's a realistic fear though, right? Well, but you got to make sure it's not realistic because you just have to...
How much did it cost the company to put that...
Well, I'm going to answer that question for you in one second. But so my reaction was, you know what, maybe we just like, great idea, wrong time. Should we do it later? And I'm like, I'm thinking through like what would be the repercussions of canceling. Then I'm like, stop being a pussy. Like, that's... I'm like, toughen up. Like, you know what, like you signed up for this. You have to make it great. Just will it to happen. I remember the amount of people that I need to come through to make it great. I just started 20 minutes to FaceTime each person. Yo, you know, Kevin Hart or Tom Brady or Jay or this person, that person. Just calling everybody, just saying like, yo, what's... just talk. Get them excited for it. And the great thing was the people that were important to us showed up in such a big way. They did. That's what made me feel so great. And by the way, everyone had an amazing time. And so after the first night, I remember getting home and I said to Camille, I'm like, babe, I don't say this often, that was nuts. I think we had a home run. Yeah. Like, this is insane. And by the way, we got lots of things wrong. Like the way the whole way they set up, like the whole autograph pavilion and picture pavilions weren't set up the right way because they were like, the lines didn't work the right way because they had VIP passes that shouldn't have let people get in front that did. But like, you go... but even the way stars were moving through there, watching like Travis Scott move through, then I thought it was going to be... but when he walks around, when Travis Scott walks around...
He's a good friend of yours, right? Yeah, Travis, good friend.
When he walks around, there's an aura around him that is unmatched. I've seen celebrities my whole life. When he walks around, I'm like, God, there he is. That's that guy. There's that man.
We seen him in Vegas, we were like, we were kind of like, wow, he's moving different.
But let me tell you what it is. His energy is contagious. It is. He has the best energy of any human being I have ever met. I always say like, Travis built such an amazing business with Cactus Jack and all apparel and, you know, the shoes. And I was looking, normally one of us would be wearing the shoes. And I said to him, his best product would be just bottle up his energy because his enthusiasm is so good. Like I watched him come to like the night before the White Party. I remember like we had like a... we had that football game at my house and he decides to start DJing before, you know, like everyone's gone home because they want to actually get a good night's sleep. Travis was like DJing with like 10 people just because he's having so much fun with me because that's his person. He's just one of the happiest, best energy people on the planet. I think energy is everything when you're trying to surround yourself with positivity. That's for sure.
Yeah, especially when you, you know, when you want to be around someone more when you kind of feel that aura as you mentioned.
Well, I want to create that energy and get that energy and that just builds. I believe that. I do want to know because I've been... I've wondered this and I brought it up to him about 10 times. How much did Fanatics Fest cost to put on?
So Fanatics Fest, the first year, so this was the first year we did it. It cost about 45 or 52 million. And we lost about 6 or 8 million bucks. But we didn't care. Like for us, it was a give back to fans. We had 70,000 fans who had the time of their life. Like let me ask you a question, how much fun did you have?
I got to say, for me to go somewhere and have a good time, and listen to me, I'm an asshole, I would tell him the truth. The interactive stuff, the stuff that kept me like engaged as a sports fan, whether it was the running the 40-yard dash...
I did, and not too good. Who'd you race against?
Uh, no one actually. He wouldn't do it with me. I was with some...
But I think everything you did there, it just checked so many boxes for me because when I get somewhere, I get bored easy and that kept me intrigued the whole time.
So you know the crazy thing is, we came out of there and I had probably 200 individual notes about what I thought we need to do to make it better for next year. Okay? So I didn't walk out of there saying, hey, let's celebrate this. I walked out of there saying, what are all the things to make it better next year? What's next?
I like that. Well, I could just tell you that, you know, we enjoyed our time there, we loved it. But the one thing that we kept talking about was if you're a kid and you get to be a part of this experience in so many different ways of a lot of the things that you guys provided, whether it be, you know, cards or the whole WWE entrance or the whole, you know, the 40-yard dash as you mentioned. I think it's so important that while you are as busy as you are kind of putting everything together from an entrepreneurial standpoint, from a networking standpoint, from a sports standpoint, that you do focus on like giving kids, you know, an experience and something that lasts a lifetime. You know what I'm saying?
Look, we're in the sports business. Yeah. I mean, sports bring everyone together. It's the... you know, by the way, like your team don't like your team, competing, agreeing, like sports bring communities together. So for me, that's why I said I have the greatest job in the world. Like we were talking about today on our board meeting, just about, you know, just how much passion there is for what we do. People have so much excitement when they buy a jersey from us, when they, you know, buy cards from us, when they bet with us. Sports brings people through bad times. Sitting here watching your crazy bets, rooting for you, saying like, rooting, watching these games, rooting for you because it's like, it's crazy. Just that, that's the passion that you have in sports. I feel that. And I do, I love sports. I think I might love sports more than him, which is hard to do. But I found the right home because this Fanatics is the home of sports and everything about it. And I'm excited to kind of bring it to the next level.
So it is football season. You've been watching football with me all year. I have. Do you have like a Super Bowl prediction? Do you have like someone that you give me? You got something for me?
I mean, I feel like I'm going to go with my heart and I'm going to go with what I actually think. I think my heart tells me it's going to be the Chiefs and the Eagles. We get a replay. Okay. And of course the Eagles are going to win. You know, the Chiefs though this year, if one-possession games went the opposite way, it's been crazy. It's been crazy. They've saved bettors this year like crazy because the amount of parlays that they didn't break. I think actually they've killed us. They've killed me. Yeah, yeah. Killed me. But they've also killed the sportsbooks. But you know, Patrick has his lucky underwear. I think the thing is where he's wearing, he's not changing that underwear. I actually said there was some story about his underwear. I sent him a note, I said, yo, you know, we need those to cut him off in cards. Literally. He's like, when I'm done, would be unreal. Yeah, no, 100%. Those underwear got to come in cards. I mean, whatever he's got going, it's working. He's definitely got... man, that guy's got some good luck this year.
So who's your... that's your brain, heart... who I really...
No, that's my heart. That's your heart? Because I want to be Eagles. It's the Eagles and the Chiefs and I want the Eagles to win. Okay. Who's my brain? I think it's going to be Detroit and... I think it's going to be Detroit and the Chiefs. And I got to tell you something, you're 100% right. How many games were one-possession games? I can tell you this, Chiefs ain't going nowhere in the playoffs. Okay, you can document. So I just think sometimes people know how to get it done when it matters. Like look at, by the way, today's Brady Day. Okay, I think Brady's in this office somewhere today. By the way, it's Brady Day. And talk about a guy who... I haven't seen him, but it's Brady Day and he's in this office. I don't know, I'm ready for that.
Did you create Brady Day?
Um, Mike May, who's the CEO of the collectibles business, came up with this idea. It's like, it's 12/12, it's Brady Day. We got to make this holiday. How do we have a holiday? I mean, by the way, I mean Brady's been a holiday for Fanatics for like as long as I've known them. So I mean, the guy sells more jerseys than anybody in the world.
Um, I got you on one. I got a good one for you. So you've met all the sports stars in the world. Every sports star knows exactly who you are. Who's on your Mount Rushmore of sports? Who's... if you had to pick the Mount Rushmore of sports, who is it? How many people are on Mount Rushmore?
Four. You know, I was thinking the same thing. Don't, don't, don't, don't... I thought it might be three. Um, give me your four. Hold on, who's on Mount Rushmore for real? You...
Uh, it's four presidents, isn't it? Who are they?
Yeah, uh, George Washington...
No, I asked him. I dropped out of college because I ain't go to... George dropped out. I'm gonna drop out. Who is it?
Uh, George Washington, uh, Abraham Lincoln... um, here's the good news, I don't know... hey, you know the good news is I'm out of answers, so I'm glad you don't know. I pick four people. I think I would put them... I would pick people based on more than just what you see. Okay? So the first person, we're just talking about it, it's got to be Brady. Because for Brady, it was that will to win. And what I love so much about Tom is that same tenacity that made him who he is as a football player is what he's doing now in business and everything else he does. And his work ethic is insane. He's like the guy I talk to first in the morning. He's up at like five o'clock every morning. He's on top of everything. Like I just love that work ethic that he has. Um, two would be Kobe. Okay, and Kobe again, it goes back to like maybe it's just people I have so much respect for. It's just work ethic. Okay, he had it. Um, he has, you know, he just like I remember when he was getting into business in like 2011, 2012, he would call me at the end of games all the time to ask business questions. It's like, here is... like he's winning games and grinding for basketball. He's grinding in business. And I respected that. Um, so that would be my second. Um, my third would be Bron. Bron is just so special. And I'm not like, I'm not in the Bron-Jordan debate, but I'm just saying like, the guy's... is he 40 yet? I think he's 40. He is 40. Okay, he's superhuman. Okay, say whatever you want to say. I couldn't do what he's doing. And I can admit that to be clear.
You would at 20, 23, 25, 28... you never could do what he was doing. I'm 35. Do you think I was 23? No, I'm saying at 20. I'm saying in the most athletic times in your life, you could do... I will say right now, I probably can outshoot LeBron James from three. Okay, right now. Okay, so I'll tell you what, what odds would you like? And we're going to make this bet happen. Can we put up on the sportsbook? Um, can we get like a little... like a little thing? This is actually the... by the way, there is that guy I told you I heard was in this office today.
What's up, man? Brother. See who's here. What's up, big dog? Cousin Tommy, how you doing? Marco, Marco, pleased. How you doing? What a surprise. Very nice to meet you. Anthony. Yeah, what you guys got? You going to hang out with us? Sure. All right, let's do this. Let's do it.
So these guys, all sports... what's that? All In Sports. I like that. So Marco's my boy who... he's got a gambling podcast. He's brought in it out. And so he just started working with Fanatics. So today he's talking about all things, not just gambling. So I was one of his first guests in this new podcast. And since you walk by, we got to bring you into this. And so now you're guest 1.2.
Yeah, following him, I'm cool with that. Let's do it.
So this guy just pulled him from walking down the halls here. I'm actually... yeah, what do you want to know from this man? It's meant to be. You know, actually, now that I... it happens to be coincidental that Athan's here. Um, Athan's going to be probably entering the draft after next year. And Athan is not getting the... at least in my opinion, because his dad is my best friend, and he's not getting like that draft attention that I feel like he should get. And I look back and I go, what's a quarterback that didn't get a lot of draft attention? And that's you. So what would be your recommendation to try and stand out and be the difference and make it to the next level?
I think I really... first of all, I wouldn't really care about the draft attention. I think that if you continue to be a great player, they're ultimately going to find you. Um, believe me, everyone's looking for good quarterbacks. Everyone's looking for good players. Um, I think there's a lot fewer of them than there actually used to be for a lot of different reasons. And I think a lot of the reasons are we're too worried about what people think of us and how much attention we... I think you should just go do the hard work every single day when people aren't watching. Even when I got drafted and I went to the Patriots at 199, it was a sixth-round pick. And then I wasn't playing my first year. And every Friday morning I would call the strength and conditioning coach of our team and we would meet at 6:00 a.m. Our first squad meeting was at 7:30 and I'd meet him in our indoor facility and we would go train for an hour and a half when no one else was there. Nobody else was watching. And I wasn't there to do it to, you know, have people know. But I was there because I really... this was voluntary. What? Well, it was just me and him. And I just knew that if I got that time with him, then I was going to work on my jumping, work on my running, work on a lot of things I was deficient in. And we're all deficient in certain areas. None of us are born like have all the skill of everything. It's... we're constantly a work in progress. And as some of us have a lot of deficiencies, by the way, at all. But the point is, you have to understand that you're always trying to work harder. So you know, for Athan, right, Athan, you're just going to have to work at it every single day. If it's important to you, then you got to get up every day and be really self-motivated to go out there and improve all your weaknesses. And who gives a shit if they give you anything or not? Who cares if anyone's paying attention? It's really up to you. Look at yourself in the mirror every day and say, did I give this my best? Did I do everything I could today to be a better player based on the priorities that I have? So I love that. They're all going to find you, the scouts, and there's so much video now. But you... I always felt like you should always put everything back on you as a quarterback. I see a lot of pro quarterbacks that don't do that. If the offense doesn't produce, it's the quarterback's fault. If we had a bad practice, it's the quarterback's fault. If we weren't prepared for a situation, it was the quarterback's fault. And I just always wanted it to fall back on my shoulders ultimately, where as it should be. That makes sense?
Yeah, you know, that's a great point. It's you have to look in the mirror and just focus on being better.
Every day, all that matters, and everything else will fall into place. Everything else is irrelevant in my opinion.
I love that. That's actually pretty deep. You know, speaking of college football, you consider Bill Belichick your friend. Is he your friend or is he like an uncle?
