CEOInterviews.AIOpen AI Insider on GPT-5, AGI & the Great AI Race w/ Kevin Weil & Dave Blundin

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Peter Diamandis0:00

You're like in the middle of the fastest growing but most rapid changing thing in human history.

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Kevin Weil0:04

We don't always even know what the next model is going to be great at.

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Peter Diamandis0:08

Kevin Weil, the chief product officer, leads all the product functions at OpenAI. Coming off the back of a storied career in companies like Twitter and Facebook, right? I think everybody knows you. For those who don't know me, I'm Peter Diamandis.

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Kevin Weil0:20

Do you ever look at what the other products are doing and sort of say that's a great idea or let's not go there? Google is competition for us. They're moving very quickly and building good models. So is Anthropic. So are a bunch of other players. It's motivation for us to also go faster.

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Peter Diamandis0:37

I do have an important last question. Has OpenAI fully reached AGI and what is Johnny I delivering for you?

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Kevin Weil0:45

Oh man, I've been waiting to talk about this since we started. All right, so now that's a moonshot, ladies and gentlemen.

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Peter Diamandis0:56

Everybody, welcome to Moonshots. I'm here with my moonshot mate Dave Blendon and we're here at OpenAI headquarters in San Francisco. We're about to have a deep session with Kevin Weil, the chief product officer of OpenAI. So, let's dive in. Welcome to Moonshots. Kevin, congrats for GPT-5. That is a huge milestone. You know, as chief product officer, I can't think of a bigger product to be announcing to the world.

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Kevin Weil1:20

Yeah. It was probably the most anticipated AI launch of all time, the most anticipated product launch. We've been talking about it for a while, but we're super excited. We put a lot into it. A lot of the things that actually people might not even think about, like we did a lot of work on the health side. So, added a lot of health data because one of the things we see is that people are using ChatGPT all the time to ask about health data, whether it's just this thing happened to my kid, what should I do, or all the way to, I just got a cancer diagnosis, here's a bunch of data, how should I think about this? And it doesn't replace a doctor, but it sure is helpful to have this super smart thing that you can talk to 24/7.

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Peter Diamandis2:01

I love that part of the launch, by the way. Everyone on Twitter has got different opinions of that part. I love that part of the launch. Were you a big part of scripting that whole day or how did that work?

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Kevin Weil2:10

Oh, no. We have an incredible team that puts that together. The GPT-5 one was fun because we had so much to talk about because it wasn't just health. It's also the smartest model we've ever launched. It is an incredible coding model. It can do a lot of highly agentic things that you may not see as much in ChatGPT but are super valuable for developers building on it. You can follow very complex instructions, make lots of different tool calls to different services, integrate things without losing the plot, which has been a real area that the whole industry is making models better in. So GPT-5 is the best across the board in a whole bunch of areas and we wanted to try and figure out how to show all of these things. But we needed a lot longer than our normal 20-minute live streams.

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Peter Diamandis2:59

And the simplicity of one product serves all. It was brilliant.

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Kevin Weil3:04

Yeah, there's something cool about models that way, right? It's like the Google homepage, right, when it was a simple search bar, right? That's what allowed it to dominate over Yahoo and everybody else. So that simplicity is amazing. Well, it's also complicated because it's so anticipated. Like you said, probably the most anticipated product launch of all time, but if you think about an iPhone launch, the features are obvious. AI is so open-ended. You can do anything on that stage. And so trying to script that and make it relevant for this really wide audience, it's got to be extra challenging for the team here to figure out how to do that.

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Peter Diamandis3:35

Well, it's the fun thing about working at OpenAI, too, because we don't always even know what the next model is going to be great at. You know, you have some sense. You can kind of see it coming through the mist at you a little bit, but other times there's something emergent and we're surprised.

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Kevin Weil3:48

So that's the most interesting thing, the fact that AI's properties and capabilities are emergent and I mean no one predicted any of this two years ago, let alone a year ago, right?

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Peter Diamandis3:57

Yeah. So you had to have had, you in particular, got all these comments from the world. I mean, people are super excited and people are critical and so how do you deal with all the feedback and does that feedback actually tie back into how you iterate?

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Kevin Weil4:19

Oh it totally does. Because like I said, these models are so powerful, so generic, there's lots of things that we obviously test internally all over the place and we're testing externally in various ways before we launch. But then you give it to 700 million people and all of a sudden they're testing in all kinds of new ways. So we listen a lot. People have feedback on Reddit, on Twitter, on LinkedIn, all the ways that you'd expect. We have people coming into our customer support. We have friends who are giving us their feedback and then you're also just looking at the data, right? And the data tells a really good story. We had one of our biggest Plus upgrades. But, you know, we heard the feedback. I think there were a couple things that we didn't quite get right. One is the model's personality was a little bit wooden. And so we iterated and shipped a fix very quickly for that. Just a little bit more of a warm personality.

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Peter Diamandis5:18

That is an interesting subject in itself because there's probably not one personality that will meet everyone's needs. It needs to be fairly dynamic to the individual. I've got to say the voice models and the interactivity as a voice on OpenAI for me is my favorite of all of the large language models. I mean really it feels natural. Oh, really crossed a tipping point too where if you're on a long drive you can talk to it for hours now. You used to talk to it for maybe a minute or two and then you kind of flip out and move to something else. Now you just go for infinite time.

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Kevin Weil5:51

Yeah, it's just engaging and interesting. And to my kids, it's completely natural, by the way, that they would take my phone and just talk to ChatGPT for 20 minutes.

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Peter Diamandis6:00

You're a new dad as well. How old is your newborn?

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Kevin Weil6:03

Uh, no, no, we have a, our oldest is 11 and then we have 8-year-old twins. So we're a little bit into it. We're kind of middle stage.

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Peter Diamandis6:10

I was looking at the photo on your WhatsApp. Yeah. Okay. So, I mean, you got to admit people were expecting AGI. People were expecting GPT-5 to be... Yeah. I know. I know you will. I'm very confident. Yeah. I'm sure you will. So, they had people that were expecting that and then they got actually a very usable product at like half the price point. Which is extraordinary on its own.

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Kevin Weil6:37

Yeah. Less than half the price point. And also what you said a second ago, I really want everybody to understand. Nobody knows what next year's capabilities or even 3 months from now's capabilities will be. A lot of people think like, hey, no one at Brown knows exactly what's going to happen next. But it's not true. Humanity doesn't know what capabilities will and won't exist because as you scale it's not obvious.

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Peter Diamandis6:59

Are you thinking consciousness or what?

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Kevin Weil7:02

No. Well, no. I wasn't thinking about... Noam has a bunch of incredible research ideas and we have some sense and things are starting to work and you have a rough sense of the capabilities but what will that enable? Yeah. That's the kind of thing that only becomes clear as the model comes together and sometimes not even then to our earlier discussion. Sometimes you launch and then you realize the model has these emergent capabilities that you...

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Peter Diamandis7:28

When we were here before I was asking, because I teach a class at MIT on foundations of AI ventures. How to build an AI company and all these people want to be at OpenAI because they want to be in the middle of seeing it happen day to day. Yeah. I said, 'Why don't you open an office in Boston where all this talent is?' You're like, 'At the rate that AGI will arrive, it won't matter. We're not doing that because it won't matter. The timeline doesn't line up. We're going to keep the headcount small. The AI is going to be the workforce.' And by the time we got a building built and got it all populated, it wouldn't matter anyway because AGI will be here. So, I don't know if that timeline lines up with what you're seeing because you're on the inside. You're like in the middle of the fastest growing, most rapid changing thing in human history.

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Kevin Weil8:08

Yeah. I mean, we're very optimistic. There's also something magical to being in person to the point about, you know, Boston office. There is, you're in person, you're drawing on whiteboards together. It's a very researchy culture.

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Peter Diamandis8:26

I keep on telling my team that it's like, you know, I want the team to come back together again physically. I want to co-locate as much as possible. Zoom is fantastic, but there's the human nature. One of the questions I'm going to ask you later is what's not going to change in the next 5 to 10 years, right? And I think that human nature is part of it. Every week, my team and I study the top 10 technology meta trends that will transform industries over the decade ahead. I cover trends ranging from humanoid robotics, AGI, and quantum computing to transport, energy, longevity, and more. There's no fluff, only the most important stuff that matters, that impacts our lives, our companies, and our careers. If you want me to share these meta trends with you, I write a newsletter twice a week, sending it out as a short two-minute read via email. And if you want to discover the most important meta trends 10 years before anyone else, this report's for you. Readers include founders and CEOs from the world's most disruptive companies and entrepreneurs building the world's most disruptive tech. It's not for you if you don't want to be informed about what's coming, why it matters, and how you can benefit from it. To subscribe for free, go to diamandis.com/metrends to gain access to the trends 10 years before anyone else. All right, now back to this episode. Here's a question. So, you're constantly creating increasing capabilities within the OpenAI ecosystem, and you've got to decide how much of that capability to launch to the public and how much to hold back. How do you think about that? Because I'm sure you have much more capable models and capabilities than are accessible right now. Is that something that's internally sort of constantly you're metering it out at a specific rate? How do you think about that?

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Kevin Weil10:06

Not really. I mean, our mission is to ensure that AGI benefits all of humanity and the way that we do that is to put AGI in people's hands as much as possible. And we believe in this process of iterative development, iterative deployment. So rather than holding it back and then bestowing it fully formed upon the world, we want to get AI out to people as soon as we feel like it's ready. And we'll do that early and we'll do it often. We want to do it safely, obviously. So that's its own sort of guard. But other than that, we'd rather put something out to people earlier and let them play with it and build awesome stuff with it and learn from it. And then we get their feedback and that helps us build better models. It's not a kind of thing where we're like, there's obviously a bunch of stuff we have internally that's ahead of what we have launched but that's also stuff that is very much in research mode, in development, and will make its way into models over time. It's sort of the ability to learn to harness it. But we try and put stuff in people's hands because the fun thing about this world right now, I think every service, product, device we use is going to be reinvented.

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Peter Diamandis11:17

So that answers in terms of core model capabilities but what about just raw speed because I write code with GPT-5 every single day. And you watch the lines of code come out and it's incredible. I mean as a force multiplier like 1000x more productive than I would be without it. But I'm watching the lines of code come out and I'm picturing like when you guys are using it internally, it must be many more GPUs blazing fast, lines of code just pouring out of it. Am I right?

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Kevin Weil11:46

Well, we use pretty much the same settings that everybody else does. But that's really just a function of the number of GPUs we have. So, I mean, right now we are... We do have a few. We have a little bit more than a few, but we're also completely maxed out at all times. This is one of the reasons that we talk about Project Stargate where we're going in with a bunch of other groups and building out more than 500 billion dollars of infrastructure.

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Peter Diamandis12:12

It's extraordinary. Computronium covering the planet.

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Kevin Weil12:15

Totally. I mean just every time we get more GPUs, they immediately get used whether it's, we can take them on the product side and use it to lower latency or speed up token generation or launch new products. Take a product that's only available to Pro users and bring it to Plus users or free users or it just means that we can run more experiments on the research side. There's basically infinite demand for GPUs within these walls and that's why we're doing so much to build capacity.

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Peter Diamandis12:45

I'm really glad you said that because there is a school of thought out there that GPUs will commoditize and it's just so wrong. It's so incredibly wrong.

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Kevin Weil12:53

We're far from that moment at the very least.

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Peter Diamandis12:55

I think that will never exist in the world.

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Kevin Weil12:58

It's one of those things. It's like the internet, you know, every bit that we lower latency, increase bandwidth on the internet, people do more things. Video used to be impossible, now video is every day because the capabilities are there, the network can handle it. The more GPUs we get, the more AI we'll all use.

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Peter Diamandis13:16

So last year I made four trips to India. And you know, population of 1.4 billion, huge amount of builders there, massive latent talent for building. And I saw Sam's tweet about building for India and I'm curious how do you think about that because India needs it for education, needs it for healthcare, needs it for governance, needs it to help uplift 1.4 billion people. It's the only thing that's going to do that. How does it enter your mission as a chief product officer? Do you think about that differently from just in general?

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Kevin Weil13:54

It's a huge priority. I was out there with Sam and a bunch of people from OpenAI. I don't remember, four or five months ago. And the reception was just incredible everywhere we went. Talking to developers, people are using ChatGPT, building on top of our APIs. It's the biggest country in the world. There's so much we can do. The most youthful also. One of the things I'm really excited about, talking about coding today, there are something like 30 million developers in the world, 30 million people that know how to code. With an AI coding model we can give a couple more orders of magnitude of people, we can take it from 30 million to 300 million to 3 billion people that effectively know how to code, that can create software. And when you can create software, it's such a general purpose skill, you can build personalized tools. You can build all kinds of stuff. And every time you increase something like that, access to a general purpose tool by an order of magnitude, the world changes. So whether you're talking health or education or just frankly the ability to build software, I think this is why AI is going to be the biggest transformational force in our lives. And I think in places like India, it's going to be that much more powerful.

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Peter Diamandis15:10

Yeah. And I mean there are nations that need it more than others and India is most definitely going to be one of the biggest beneficiaries.

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Kevin Weil15:18

Yeah, we actually just launched this morning a paid plan in India just for India. So it's a much cheaper plan but it gives Indian users a lot of access to ChatGPT, like 10x more access than you get as a free user. But a heavily discounted plan because we're trying to bring as much of the benefit of AI to people in India as we can.

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Peter Diamandis15:41

So how much do you think that's going to unlock a latent talent base because you start in India you think globally there's talent everywhere. And a lot of it is latent. It can't get into a great school. It can't get into a great ecosystem. AI is going to be an incredible leveler of that starting with coding. So is that part of the motivation of going in with a lower price point in India?

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Kevin Weil16:01

Yeah. There's talent everywhere and there's also hustle and urgency. So, yeah, we want to bring as much AI as we can and we've got limits on GPUs and all of this. We have to pay for it one way or another, but we want to put this in the hands of as many people as we can. And so, one of the interesting things about OpenAI, one of the things that's different about this company relative to anywhere I've ever worked, normally when you build products, you move things behind the paywall. So there's a product that starts out free and then at some point you make it a paid feature to try and get people to pay more money for whatever you're building. We go the opposite way at OpenAI. Stuff starts in our Pro or in Plus and so you're paying $20 a month for it. Our entire goal is to make that a free product because we want to give a more powerful product to more people because we think it makes the world a better place. So if you look at the progression of a lot of our things, Deep Research started out as a Pro feature and then we brought it to Plus and now as a free user you can do a bunch of Deep Research every month. So our goal is actually to just make the most powerful product we can and give it to as many people as we can.

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Peter Diamandis17:12

So you're probably in charge of balancing the need to create as many GPUs as possible, Stargate and just you need a massive amount of infrastructure and that takes money. And then you want to balance that against, yeah, but we also want to put this in the hands of as many people as possible as cheaply as possible. That's got to be incredible tension inside the building trying to figure out how do you balance those two objectives.

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Kevin Weil17:33

Not so much tension actually. You might be surprised because we have just a long-term belief. I have a long-term belief that the idea that we used to live our lives without AI helping us every day is going to feel crazy in a few years. And so if we're building a product that adds a ton of value to people's lives, we're going to put as much as we possibly can available for free, but there are always going to be things that are super heavily computational and expensive for us that will be in a Plus plan or in a Pro plan. And if we do our job, if I do my job and the team continues to do their job, then those features are going to be super valuable. They're going to be ever more valuable, right? AI is only going to be able to do more for you. And while you're sleeping, rather than waiting, ChatGPT today is a pretty reactive product. You go there, you ask a question. It can do things for you that would have been crazy two years ago, but you're still asking it first. You're still starting to prompt, but you can definitely imagine a world where ChatGPT is much more proactive because of what it knows about you.

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Peter Diamandis18:39

You prompt it to be proactive. It's actually proactive.

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Kevin Weil18:42

Totally. But why not think 24 hours a day? You're asleep and it's thinking about what it can do for you. So, there's always more that we can do.

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Peter Diamandis18:49

My favorite model is still Jarvis. I want Jarvis in my life. It's doing things for me all the time. I still want my AI to do surprise and delight. The doorbell rings and something shows up that I'm not expecting and it says, 'I bought this for you because I think you'd like it. I heard the conversation you had.'

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Kevin Weil19:03

Yeah. And that for me, that's when... I'll do that for you. I'll ask ChatGPT, okay, what random thing I should buy you and it will show up at your doorstep. We'll see what it does. That's a Peter Diamandis edition.

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Peter Diamandis19:14

Fantastic. I love it. By the way, what happened to your hand?

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Kevin Weil19:17

So, I just had an RFID chip implanted today.

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Peter Diamandis19:24

As one does.

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Kevin Weil19:25

As one does. I was over at Frontier Towers. Over at Frontier Towers, a guy named Cass that runs their sort of longevity and biohacking. And I had done this. I had, if you can feel it right here, there's a little chip in there. It's made by a company called Dangerous Things, which is great marketing, right? But this is the more advanced one. So I put it so I can open my Tesla with it and wave in front of the elevator.

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Peter Diamandis19:48

Wow. Check out with Apple Pay.

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Kevin Weil19:50

Exactly. I will not put my crypto keys on this because then my hand is at risk.

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Peter Diamandis19:57

Yes. The hammer attack. $5 wrench attack.

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Kevin Weil20:03

Exactly. I'm curious.

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Peter Diamandis20:07

Wait, how big is the chip?

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Kevin Weil20:08

Oh, it's... Yeah. You want to see the photos here? It's bigger than you would have thought. So, this is what it looks like, right? This is, they actually put this giant needle in your hand about the size of a straw. Make some space and then they slip it in.

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Peter Diamandis20:24

Yeah. Nice.

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Kevin Weil20:26

It will heal on there. I'll put this up on the video.

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Peter Diamandis20:30

And how long will the batteries last?

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Kevin Weil20:31

Oh, it's not battery. It's a near field. So, basically an electric current comes in after. So, anyway, that was fun. It was an hour ago. So, you guys said keep it compressed.

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Peter Diamandis20:44

Conversations internally. I have to believe that you, I mean OpenAI is like the most progressive but between Gemini, Anthropic and Grok and everybody, it used to wonder would there be a hard takeoff and there would be one company that just takes off across everybody else and it looks like there's really a leveling up continuously across the pack. Do you ever look at what the other products are doing and sort of say that's a great idea or let's not go there. How do you...

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Kevin Weil21:19

For sure. I mean there's so much innovation happening, right? And there are smart people within these walls and there's a lot more smart people outside of these walls. So we watch what other folks are doing. We also look at how people are using our own models and get a lot of feedback about things they wish they could do, things they love about our models. So I kind of think of that all as part of the feedback that you take in. But what matters at the end of the day is are we executing because I think we have the best people in the world. We have a very clear mission. People are here because we want to build AGI and we see a path to it. So, at the end of the day, it's about our own execution, but I think we'd be crazy if we weren't watching what's happening and trying to learn from it.

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Peter Diamandis22:02

So, I met your EA outside and I asked him, has Mark Zuckerberg called recently? Mark's after researchers. Oh, that's got to be crazy. I would love to ask you some questions that will help. We have this huge ecosystem of startups that are building AI companies. And, it's funny. You were there when the internet was everything. And if you're trying to build an internet company, it's pretty obvious that the TCP/IP stack isn't going to change. You're going to be right on top of it. Compare that to AI today and you're like, wow, it's such a moving target that you're building on top of. And so, if you can help the teams in any way understand, are we going to build our own Windsurf, Cursor type capability or is that available? Are we going to... meaning where is OpenAI not going to go that leaves space for the entrepreneurs to go? Exactly. Exactly. And I'll give you a case study. So, Mark Orberg, the chairman of MIT, really wanted Sam to come to campus and meet with the president, Sally Cornbluth. And Sam said, 'Yeah, I'll come and do that if you introduce me to 50 startups back to back.' And so, Mark set it all up. And they did the 50 back-to-back meetings. And then...

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Kevin Weil23:06

That's awesome.

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Peter Diamandis23:07

Sam was on stage. But, you know, Sam, genuine Y Combinator background, absolutely cares about the startup economy thriving on top of OpenAI. So, the mission is right in alignment. But then knowing what's going to happen next is harder than anything I've ever seen before. So any insight you can give on what's your advice to entrepreneurs wanting to build on top of OpenAI? We've seen a lot of OpenAI wrappers in the past. What's your advice though?

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Kevin Weil23:34

So here's the context that I think is most important. Every single product we use, every single service that we use today, every single device that we use, practically all of them were pre-AI. Any of the ones that are at scale were pre-AI. They're all going to be reinvented.

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Peter Diamandis23:55

It's like adding electricity to every mechanical thing.

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Kevin Weil23:57

Exactly. It's a really good analogy. Everything is going to be reinvented. And sometimes the incumbents are going to figure out how to do it themselves. If history is any guide, not many of them are going to figure it out, right? And that's a huge opportunity for startups, for entrepreneurs because we're in this complete transformation. So that's super exciting. I think it's an awesome time to be an entrepreneur. Certainly we're going to try and do some of that reinvention ourselves. No matter how big we get, how many things we do, I mean I'm talking everything is different, right? And it's not just tech, it's also the way you interact with your doctor is different. Material science is different. So we're only going to be able to do this much. And so what we say to the developers is if you're building right at the edge of what the models can do, you're so far at the bleeding edge that the models can't quite do the thing you want, but you can just see little glimmers of hope. That's a great place to be building because 2 months from now, we're going to launch a new model and the thing that you've been just barely getting to work is going to sing. And that's going to be awesome. If instead what you're doing is patching a problem with the current model and you're afraid of the next model launch that we are going to come out with because it's going to disrupt, it's going to obviate the need for the thing you're building, like don't do that. Assume that the models are going to keep getting better at a crazy pace and build something that's just at the edge so you're excited about the next model because it's going to make your thing awesome.

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Peter Diamandis25:33

Yeah. Arvind Srinivas over at Perplexity talks, he calls that AI complete when he was designing the Perplexity business plan. It had to be AI complete, which I think he just made up. Nobody... but it means exactly what you just said. It rides the wave. It doesn't get swamped by the wave.

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Kevin Weil25:49

Yeah, that's a much more concise way of saying what I was saying.

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Peter Diamandis25:52

I have a question I've been dying to ask you. As the chief product officer, what does AGI look like as a product? Is it just like ChatGPT, but it can do anything better, faster?

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Kevin Weil26:00

That's a good question. Well, I mean, chat is such an interesting format because it mimics how humans communicate. We can text you, we can write on the keyboard, but I can also talk and we can look at each other and a chat interface kind of gets at that full generality. So it's really powerful as a backdrop, but it's...

Not the only interface. I think when you have AGI, your model is going to be in real time creating UI on the fly to build the most economical, sensible solution for the thing that you're trying to accomplish. And you're going to have all kinds of software being created and thrown away because you can just produce it again in an instant.

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Peter Diamandis26:58

Yeah, that's the vision. When you're just talking to it, it's really obvious that it's going to be super empathetic. But then you start to see the video generation. You're like, 'Oh, wait.' Now my mind is blown because it can create scenes for me in real time. It can create images. It can create entertainment, but also if I'm designing something, it can, like Jarvis, create the design in thin air. And so now I'm thinking, okay, Jony Ive is going to be working on something.

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Kevin Weil27:22

Let's talk about that one second. I always come back, by the way, to the if you've read Ender's Game, of course.

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Peter Diamandis27:27

You know, like the jewel in your ear. It can see what you see. It can hear what you hear, but it also is super intelligent and connects back to the information across the galaxy.

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Kevin Weil27:37

Yeah.

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Peter Diamandis27:37

Like that's kind of I think where we're going.

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Kevin Weil27:39

Yeah. They lost that in the movie actually. You got to read the book.

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Peter Diamandis27:42

Yeah. So I think we're going to this multimodal world where there's video capturing everything and you're always being seen in your environments and where AGI becomes anticipatory. It knows what you likely want, right? And it's making the world automagical is the term I use for that.

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Kevin Weil27:59

So, I'm just still trying to dig into what does AGI as a product from OpenAI look like. Is it fully anticipatory? Is it just like doing things you don't expect it to be doing? I guess you could turn that feature on.

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Peter Diamandis28:16

Yeah. And I think it's also there, and I don't even know that we need to be fully at AGI for this, but I think you want the product to be taking every whatever AGI is.

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Kevin Weil28:26

Yeah. And just doing, I mean you think about the number of things that you do every day. You wake up in the morning and you have a whole bunch of emails. A lot of those are mechanical probably. Some of them are like ones that you really want to type out every word of response. Most of them are mechanical. They're scheduling. They're responding. I want my AI to have already done all of those for me before I wake up.

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Peter Diamandis28:48

Yeah.

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Kevin Weil28:48

Maybe every once in a while I need to say, 'Yeah, that's right.' Or, 'I want to edit that sentence.' But mostly it's just like, 'Be done.' And you're going to have that across. How much of your browsing is semi-mechanical? You got to get the thing done.

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Peter Diamandis29:02

Mhm.

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Kevin Weil29:03

But you actually don't care about reading the words on the page and waiting for things to load and clicking links. You're just trying to get a job done. All of that should be gone.

P

Peter Diamandis29:10

Yeah. But what do you think about the future of media? Because you know one thing that's really interesting about media in general is that everything competes with everything else. So you know you don't really think of sports as competing with news but it does because it's all competing for mind share. And clearly AI is going to take a huge amount of our mind share, it's just so engaging. And so you know that's got to come from somewhere, that time and that mind share has to come from somewhere. Do you guys think through like how is this going to affect internet media, TV, movies, all of that attention economy?

K

Kevin Weil29:40

Sure. I mean it probably becomes hyperpersonalized right today. And there are good and bad things about that. There's something magical to every single person in the US watching the same, you know, two news shows at night. And we don't have that anymore.

P

Peter Diamandis29:52

Yeah.

K

Kevin Weil29:53

There's something cool about the shared experience of we can all, you know, the same movie is in the theater for all of us at the same time and we can talk about it. But there's also something pretty cool about it. This movie is, you know, totally personalized to me and I'm the only one that it matters to. So I mean you got to think that kind of thing starts to become possible. Also probably though there's always the sort of you go to extremes. The other extreme is then you value the thing that was created by humans that much more.

P

Peter Diamandis30:20

Yeah. It's like sports are the last business model in TV that still really works well.

K

Kevin Weil30:27

Well you're an ultramarathoner. You'll still be doing that. I think that what's not going to change in the next 10 years. I mean we can list so many things that will.

P

Peter Diamandis30:34

Yeah. Well, I think humans are still going to be humans, right? We're still like us connecting in person is really going to matter. The feel of this is very different. Us doing it here sitting around a table relative to us doing it through, you know, Zoom or something.

K

Kevin Weil30:49

So, that's still going to matter. You know, a handwritten note is still going to matter. Personal connection is still going to matter.

P

Peter Diamandis30:56

I would think it's going to matter a lot more actually. The way things are, you mentioned earlier, you just love having everybody here in the building. It's just different.

K

Kevin Weil31:03

Yeah. And since you have so many AI force multipliers, you actually don't need regional offices all over the world. And so the relative importance of communication inside the team is probably higher than any company you've been in before.

P

Peter Diamandis31:16

I could run my Abundance Summit virtually through the year, but we're five days together in March.

K

Kevin Weil31:21

Yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis31:21

And those five days are, you know, just magical in terms of the energy.

K

Kevin Weil31:25

Yeah. Yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis31:26

So what do you guys think? What stays the same and what does AGI look like? I think one thing that after that GPT-5 launch that occurred to me, you know, up until this point, you think about, you know, I had my kids working with GPT-2 writing content and then GPT-3 and then GPT-4 and they've been watching this crazy progression. Now it's pretty clear that the AI community is going to try and not change too many things too quickly. Like let the AI become super intelligent. Let it solve healthcare. Let it solve, you know, like but don't go rampaging across San Francisco tearing down buildings because actually that's creating more problems than good. And it's now becoming clear to me the AI community is really small as a fraction of the world. And the last thing it needs to do is change everything tomorrow, even though it potentially could. So it's starting to feel to me like, you know, the physical world won't change as much as people might think, while the virtual world will change at warp speed.

K

Kevin Weil32:22

Mhm. I think the importance of purpose is still going to be right because one of my biggest concerns about the future of, you know, the end point here is when everything is being done for you or can be done for you and you can just sit back and be, you know, a couch potato.

P

Peter Diamandis32:38

Mh.

K

Kevin Weil32:39

The thing that's going to make you live in a Star Trek universe, not a Mad Max universe, is purpose.

P

Peter Diamandis32:44

Yeah.

K

Kevin Weil32:45

Like so that importance and Yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis32:47

Yeah. I completely agree with that. I think the I always have a hard time with the futures that people paint when it's like, oh, we're all just going to sit back and, you know, eat grapes and write poetry and receive our UBI because I just I don't think that's what drives us as humans. If you go back and look at we don't have to like, you know, cross the United States in a covered wagon. We don't have to hang our laundry on clothes lines as, you know, very much anymore. There's probably, if you go back a 100 years ago, people look at our lifestyle today and they're like, 'Oh my god, everything is done for you. What are you talking about?' But of course we take those time savings and go do more interesting stuff with it.

K

Kevin Weil33:25

Yeah, it's always going to be true. It's all about time savings, right? One thing that's true is every single human, 8 billion of us have 7 days in a week, 24 hours in a day, right? 365 in a year. And it's what you can do with that time that defines wealth, success, impact, everything.

P

Peter Diamandis33:44

Yeah.

K

Kevin Weil33:44

And AI is the greatest, you know, time multiplier period. And I think it's one of the most powerful parts of human nature that we all strive for something bigger than ourselves and you want to leave the world a better place than you found it. And that's so innate to humans. AI is not going to change that. It's just going to supercharge it.

P

Peter Diamandis34:02

So without, you know, I won't ask you now to tell me what Jony Ive is building for you. Okay. But we are going to interact with AI in different ways. So, how do you think about that future besides it's been typing and now voice is amazing.

K

Kevin Weil34:23

Mhm. Yeah. I mean the jewel in your ear thing is the model in so many ways because you don't want, take ChatGPT, right? It's just one of many AI products that we'll all use. But you don't want ChatGPT to just like sit inside of a phone app or a browser waiting for you to go there. You want it to be wherever you are. You want it to effectively see what you see and have all the context that you want to give it so that it can be smarter and act more proactively for you. And it shouldn't wait for you to open a phone app to do stuff for you. It should be just sort of constantly chugging away behind the scenes, speaking about GPUs, but it should be constantly chugging away behind the scenes taking action for you and saving you time. So that's going to be much more of the future than today where you like go to a website and ask it questions.

P

Peter Diamandis35:12

Can we come back to GPU for just one second? Yeah. So, and let's talk about Stargate, too.

K

Kevin Weil35:16

Yeah. Stargate like so Chase Lock Miller is walking around like he's our MIT classmate alum. And you know he's walking around Abilene, Texas with Sam and you know there's concrete and pipes and like just stuff everywhere.

P

Peter Diamandis35:29

Yeah.

K

Kevin Weil35:29

And but it's not up and running right, that none of the functionality is delivering yet. Getting closer.

P

Peter Diamandis35:34

Is it getting closer? Is it very soon or is that all secret?

K

Kevin Weil35:36

Yeah. I don't remember what's public and what's not, but we're very excited for that to come online because we could use all the GPUs we can get. I'm sure. And all we know is in the Oval Office there's a $500 billion budget. So it gives us a sense of the budget. But why stop there?

P

Peter Diamandis35:48

Yeah. Why stop there?

K

Kevin Weil35:50

I mean I don't think we will.

P

Peter Diamandis35:51

No. Yeah. It was about 18 months ago that I partnered with one of my closest and most brilliant friends Dave Blodgett to start Link Exponential Ventures. At Link, we manage about a billion dollars of seed stage money based out of Kendall Square in Cambridge right between MIT and Harvard. When Dave and I both graduated from MIT, each of us immediately started companies. But at that age, everything is working against you. You have an idea, you're challenged to raise money, and you can't afford rent. And even with all the accelerators out there, you're competing against thousands of other startups for the same pool of investors. Both Dave and I have spent a big chunk of our lives focusing on how do we inspire and support founders to knock down those barriers, to go big, to create wealth, to impact the world, to build and scale as fast as possible. Especially in today's AI everything world, we're seeing so many companies reaching multi-billion dollar valuations in just 2 to 3 years faster than ever before. Some companies are adding millions or tens of millions of dollars of value in just weeks. So, we started asking ourselves, how do we help these founders go faster and not skip a beat? As an example, a couple months ago, we bought an apartment building adjacent to MIT where a graduating entrepreneur can move in immediately without slowing down their tech build while they search for a place to live. And so, we're doing everything we can to accelerate builders and their super smart teams. Of course, funding is part of it, mentoring is part of it, connecting them with my personal network of abundance-minded CEOs and investors is part of it. We house 66,000 square ft of purpose-built incubator space, and 26 AI startups call Link XPV their home. And the returns have been amazing. I have nothing to ask, but if you are building a company in the AI era, check us out at linkventures.com. Now, back to the episode. So, I just got back from Brazil. So, I was there delivering five keynotes, talking to entrepreneurs, builders, and they're all asking what will sovereign AI look like for us? How do we make sure we're not passed over, right? Same question being asked probably in India and other parts of the world. Speaking to those entrepreneurs and they're extraordinarily passionate. What's the advice to the leadership in those regions, South and Central America?

K

Kevin Weil38:10

I mean, a part of this is why we try and offer everything. I mean, ChatGPT is a free product.

P

Peter Diamandis38:15

Yep.

K

Kevin Weil38:16

Download it from the app store or on the web. You don't even need to sign in. You can just go and get access to the greatest intelligence the world has ever seen.

P

Peter Diamandis38:24

Yeah.

K

Kevin Weil38:25

For free on your phone at all times. And like you said, we launched GPT-5. We cut prices dramatically. Like if you look at prices today relative to what GPT-4 costs when it came out, even as models have gotten way more intelligent, they've gotten like 100x cheaper. So you're on this crazy cost curve and we want to keep going because the more intelligence we can put in people's hands, the more they can do with it.

P

Peter Diamandis38:47

Do you feel like that ever would have happened if OpenAI hadn't forced the timeline? Because you know you've been at Meta, you've been at Twitter, you've seen like if this stuff had stayed inside Google's labs and OpenAI hadn't come into the world and said, 'Hey, we're going to make this available right now' because right now, you know, Google is throwing it out there the same way OpenAI has. But that's because it's a reaction.

K

Kevin Weil39:10

It's a reaction, right?

P

Peter Diamandis39:11

So, where do you think we would be if OpenAI hadn't existed in this? Would it all be hidden somewhere still? We wouldn't even have access to it.

K

Kevin Weil39:18

I mean, we wouldn't be where we are, right? Competition is great. As a friend of mine likes to say, capitalism is undefeated. Like this, it's amazing to have competition. And by the way, Google is competition for us. They're moving very quickly and building good models. So is Anthropic. So are a bunch of other players. And that, you know, it's motivation for us to also go faster.

P

Peter Diamandis39:40

Do you remember the moment consumers and businesses benefit is great. Do you remember the moment in your life when you first said, I want to go work at OpenAI. I need to go get in that building and meet Sam and get there.

K

Kevin Weil39:50

Uh yeah, I so I've known Sam for a bunch of years. Not super close, but just, you know, we were friends. We could text, that kind of thing. And I would call him whenever I was like thinking about going from one job and, you know, doing something next because he's such an incredible thinker and futurist and, you know, connected. He's highly connected, but he's also just involved in interesting things. So I'm a physicist by background and before my previous job is like four or five years ago I'd called him and he introduced me to some companies building fusion.

P

Peter Diamandis40:26

And I almost went and worked at one of those companies.

K

Kevin Weil40:28

So I just, you know, periodically would talk to Sam and this last time I called him, he said, 'Well, actually,' and so, you know, I hadn't even really thought about it. And then I came in, met a couple people and was just like, 'This is the most interesting thing I have ever seen. Like, I will work for free. Please just let me in the door.'

P

Peter Diamandis40:46

So you could literally be working on magnetic containment for fusion reaction somewhere completely unrelated.

K

Kevin Weil40:52

Pretty amazing, right? Like 37 venture-backed fusion companies. I would have never imagined.

P

Peter Diamandis40:56

Are there 37? Yeah, that's I mean I love hearing that. By the way, I'm so glad that there has been a renaissance in deep tech and investment.

K

Kevin Weil41:03

Yeah, it's like you know there are venture-backed rocket companies and fusion companies. It's like you know okay this stuff is becoming real.

P

Peter Diamandis41:09

Yeah, we need more of it.

K

Kevin Weil41:10

Exactly.

P

Peter Diamandis41:10

How can you possibly keep up with the speed of change? I mean I think in your role trying to keep up with how rapidly the tech is progressing. How do you think about that?

K

Kevin Weil41:29

Part of it is staying as connected to our research teams as we possibly can.

P

Peter Diamandis41:32

Yeah. How big is the research team here?

K

Kevin Weil41:34

I don't know. Order of magnitude a few hundred. Yeah. Something like that. So and it's a very independent, it seems very independent, right? People can work on a project and sort of begin to launch features.

P

Peter Diamandis41:49

Yeah.

K

Kevin Weil41:49

It's I mean there's kind of a spectrum. Parts of the research team are super academic. They're doing like novel research that may or may not work out, may or may not see the light of day for a while. Because this is such a new field, there's a lot to discover. You're not just productionizing things that somebody else figured out. You got to figure out this stuff from scratch. And then there are parts of the research team that are much closer to product where you know you're taking a model and helping to post train it and making sure that it's good at certain things that are really important for our customers in various shapes. And you kind of have everything in between. So one of the things that I think differentiates OpenAI is how closely product and engineering and research all work together. Because like I said, there are parts of research that are very separate. But the parts that when we work closely together and we get a tight iteration loop from like building model capabilities, turning that into a product, getting feedback, taking that feedback back, improving those model capabilities and iterating that way. Like that's how we built deep research. That's how we build agent functionality. Like the best stuff comes from that.

P

Peter Diamandis42:57

So in your role, you know, so here's research, you know, ultra science, then here's product features and functions, you know this voice, this button, then over here you got data centers. Do you span all of that as a CPO?

K

Kevin Weil43:10

No, no, just the products that you use so think the API, think so Mark is overseeing all the yeah Mark leads research. Greg leads everything sort of data center infrastructure scaling all that kind of stuff.

P

Peter Diamandis43:25

Got it. Okay.

K

Kevin Weil43:28

Yeah, there's a lot going on. So we divide and conquer.

P

Peter Diamandis43:31

You know, the feature I'm looking forward to is my BCI connect.

K

Kevin Weil43:35

Oh, yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis43:35

Yeah. So, a friend of mine is involved in, you know, Merge that was just announced, leaked, I guess. So, you know, we have 100 billion neurons, 100 trillion synaptic connections.

K

Kevin Weil43:48

Yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis43:48

And being able to have a feature set that lays on top my neocortex. Do you actually, do you think that far ahead in your conversation?

K

Kevin Weil43:57

Is Merge, by the way, is Merge doing are they going invasive or is it sitting on your scalp or how are they doing?

P

Peter Diamandis44:02

I know the details of the company. I don't know what I can say about it.

K

Kevin Weil44:06

Okay.

P

Peter Diamandis44:07

But there are a multitude of companies that are invasive and a number that are external. And there are those that are subcranial but above the dura of the brain. So, lots of different layers there. But I'm super excited about that, too.

K

Kevin Weil44:22

So, Oh, yeah. I mean, I would do it in a heartbeat. Would you?

P

Peter Diamandis44:25

No. No. Absolutely not. But that's only because well, look, I use AI literally six, seven, eight hours a day.

K

Kevin Weil44:30

Yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis44:31

And it's getting so far ahead. There's no, you know, the original vision there was I need to increase the bandwidth of communication between my brain and this really slow laptop.

K

Kevin Weil44:40

Uhhuh.

P

Peter Diamandis44:40

But now the AI moves so fast that it's clear that I can give it a concept and it can just run with it. And I haven't had the next concept yet. Like the increasing the bandwidth between my brain and the laptop no longer matters. The AI is just way too fast.

K

Kevin Weil44:55

So listen, Alex Weizer-Gross, who's one of our friends and partners, was on my stage at the Abundance Summit and he was talking about the importance of coupling like if AI is taking doing a real takeoff and humans are linear, can we couple with that? Right? And that coupling is going to need to have this kind of an interface. So here's the question to you. Would you do a BCI coupled to OpenAI?

P

Peter Diamandis45:17

I would personally do it. I would personally do BCI.

K

Kevin Weil45:21

Yeah. So I like when it's safe, I'll do it in a heartbeat.

P

Peter Diamandis45:24

Yeah. I mean, I just I tend to do experimental things in the first place.

K

Kevin Weil45:27

Yeah, I was gonna say, says the man with a RFID chip in his hand. But no, I would totally do it. I think it'll be amazing when you can access the world's information, not by like typing into one of these things, but at the speed that you can think. And then you have like this. I mean, we will be a different species. It'll be super cool.

P

Peter Diamandis45:45

Yeah. And we are going to speciate. And there'll be those who decide they want to, you know, I like it the way it is. I don't want that in my head. And others that I want to see this, I want to understand quantum physics. I want to have infinite knowledge. I want to be able to be interfaced.

K

Kevin Weil46:03

Like, I understand what you're saying completely. Like you got the Amish over here and you got the technophiles over there. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that when you surround me by monitors and it's creating things on those monitors at the speed of AI right now. There's no bandwidth increase beyond well I can't absorb any more information than that anyway. I'm at the limit of what I can think about.

P

Peter Diamandis46:24

But maybe not with your eyes and maybe not when you have to type it in to a thing and then, you know, wait for it all. I mean, it's really hard to beat.

K

Kevin Weil46:33

But we've talked about the fact that visually you can look at an image and get whether the data is correct or not, right? Versus if you have a text, you have to read every line. So anyway, we'll see. We're going to find out.

P

Peter Diamandis46:46

Yeah. Well, I guess you and I will be the AB test and or we'll be the A and he'll be the B.

K

Kevin Weil46:51

You'll be the A. If you're still alive, you'll be a baby.

P

Peter Diamandis46:55

If I'm still alive. Yeah.

K

Kevin Weil46:56

Yeah. Peter's having it done tomorrow. I might wait a year and then we'll see how that goes.

P

Peter Diamandis47:01

Yeah. Well, as long as you can upgrade. You don't want to get version one and then it is true.

K

Kevin Weil47:06

So, you know, you've worked at some amazing companies. You know, I love what Planet's doing as well.

P

Peter Diamandis47:12

Yeah.

K

Kevin Weil47:13

Putting a layer of imagery on top of the planet. But I can't imagine that the speed of iteration of products is any place faster than it is here.

P

Peter Diamandis47:24

Yeah. Nothing in my experience is compared to OpenAI.

K

Kevin Weil47:27

Yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis47:27

I thought Facebook and Instagram when I was there moved quickly and they do.

K

Kevin Weil47:31

Yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis47:32

But nothing compares to OpenAI.

K

Kevin Weil47:34

Do you feel like so you're doing what a 10, 20 billion capital raise is at 500 billion something like that? I'm just reading the news. I don't want to.

P

Peter Diamandis47:40

No, you're just reading the news. You tell me.

K

Kevin Weil47:43

Okay. But do you feel like Google's got about 100 billion of free cash flow? You know Amazon's huge and they have massive data centers in advance. Do you feel like there's a vulnerability at the raw compute and budget level?

P

Peter Diamandis47:56

I mean it's why we are so focused on building out our own capacity. They've got big data centers. They've been doing this for a long time. They've built great technology. They also support a whole host of things. They also, you know, Google builds a lot of products that we all use.

K

Kevin Weil48:12

Mhm.

P

Peter Diamandis48:12

We build one product. We have one mission. Building AGI is existential for us. I think that's an advantage.

K

Kevin Weil48:18

I love that simplicity, right? It really goes back to Google's earliest roots where they were just a search engine, just a box on a white page.

P

Peter Diamandis48:26

Mhm. Right.

K

Kevin Weil48:27

There's something, you know, if you're a researcher, there's lots of places you can go work that'll pay you a lot of money. But if you want to work at a company that is maniacally focused on getting to AGI, you work at OpenAI.

P

Peter Diamandis48:38

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I asked GPT how many core researchers are there at Google, you know, just in the AI team core, Jeff Dean, Demis Hassabis, and it's like five, six thousand roughly assuming GPT is right. I don't know. So it's a much bigger force, but then it feels like they're working on protein folding. They're very dispersed in what they're working on and it wasn't clear to me how many just like right down the fairway working toward AGI there were relative to because it feels like you know with that GPT-5 launch the coding completely caught up or past everything else out there at a fraction of the price. So the momentum seems to be great and so but you know the headcount has got to be smaller.

K

Kevin Weil49:23

Yeah but that's I mean that's every startup's advantage right? Agility.

P

Peter Diamandis49:26

Yeah, it's all about agility.

K

Kevin Weil49:27

Yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis49:28

We've had some conversations on the Moonshots podcast about benchmarks. How much do you think about benchmarks? Because it looks like many of the benchmarks are getting saturated and reinventing benchmarks. You've created a healthcare benchmark that you use and one of the questions we talked about was creating some benchmarks that are around AI's ability to solve grand challenges, solve fundamental problems.

K

Kevin Weil49:53

Yeah, I love that idea.

P

Peter Diamandis49:54

Yeah. And so like we called it a series of abundance benchmarks like is it, you know, and measure all of the AIs against something like it's a proof of work.

K

Kevin Weil50:05

Right instead of a proof of stake. Yeah. Yeah. It's a really interesting thing. It's really important too because we've had all of these different benchmarks that we've used for the last bunch of years in AI and they're almost all saturated now.

P

Peter Diamandis50:19

That's crazy. It shows how good the models are getting very quickly but it also means that we need harder benchmarks and there are a bunch of these things that are frontier math and ARC-AGI and some of these but increasingly we're also looking at these sort of I'll call them softer benchmarks which is a challenge in itself but like the health bench we've got benchmarks that are around can you build a financial model for a company.

K

Kevin Weil50:48

You know can you do because when you talk about AGI, one of the ways that we define AGI is can you do economically valuable tasks?

P

Peter Diamandis50:57

Sure.

K

Kevin Weil50:58

And you look at what people are doing every day if they're a doctor, a lawyer, a banker, etc. And you're looking at can you do those tasks?

P

Peter Diamandis51:05

Yeah.

K

Kevin Weil51:06

But they're also sort of softer. It's not obvious. There's not one way to build a financial model for a company. There's you could do it in a bunch of different ways. If you're doing a math problem, there is one right way and you can grade it very easily. So at the same time as models are getting smarter, we're saturating the things that are sort of easy to grade. We're off in these harder problems that are also a little bit tougher to grade. And they don't have to be deep science or anything. You can also look at creative writing. How do you grade creative writing? There's way more than one way to write a story about any particular thing.

P

Peter Diamandis51:39

So true. So true. And increasingly important, right?

K

Kevin Weil51:42

Yeah. Yeah, the stuff is running wild in areas where the evals can be built and then, you know, it can't run wild in areas where there's no eval because it's just unable to self-improve.

P

Peter Diamandis51:53

But any place you can score yourself, I saw a recent metric on its ability to predict the future.

K

Kevin Weil52:01

Okay.

P

Peter Diamandis52:02

So, I found that fascinating. Right. I mean, this is going back to sort of Asimov's work in the Foundation trilogy. Like can you, is there enough clues out there, right, that we can gather to predict what society is going to do in the next 12 hours or 12 days or 12 months?

K

Kevin Weil52:22

Uhhuh. Yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis52:23

Peter wrote a book that the future is faster than you think. I don't know if you read it. It's my favorite of the Peter books. There are many great Peter books, but it's my favorite because it talks specifically about convergent technology that nobody's figured out how to glue together. And you know normally there'll be two or three things like oh we have lithium batteries and we have control systems let's make EVs, you know two or three things. But with AI there are so many things that got cracked in the last 6 months.

K

Kevin Weil52:50

Yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis52:51

That haven't been glued together yet into products, services or whatever. It's just and it's just accelerating. And you know there's this flaw in human psychology where something is mind-blowing and then you take it for granted like three days.

K

Kevin Weil53:05

Yeah. Yeah. Totally.

P

Peter Diamandis53:06

And then you miss the center. You miss the mental breakthrough that wait I can glue that together with it. Snapchat is my favorite example. It's like that company 20 billion. Well, John Jarvey from MIT is his favorite story is how he, Evan Spiegel was a roommate of his.

Yeah, or frat brother of his son at Stanford and he got first look at it and he said that's just too simple. There's no way.

K

Kevin Weil53:29

And then it was a 20 billion dollar IPO. Yeah, his biggest mistake of his investing, probably the only big mistake of his investing career, but it was like, look, the phone has a camera. The camera is high resolution. This functionality is just the assimilation of texting and camera.

P

Peter Diamandis53:46

Yeah, that's all you had to realize. But, you know, those two things kind of grew in parallel and people didn't stick them together. Now, you've got 40 things you can do with AI that you couldn't do just a few months ago that can be glued together in all these different ways. All the combinatorics are interesting products waiting to be invented.

K

Kevin Weil54:02

Yeah. And I think where AI is today, if it just stopped, if progress stopped where, you know, GPT-5, you'd still have a complete transformation of society over the next decade.

P

Peter Diamandis54:12

So true.

K

Kevin Weil54:12

But it's not going to stop. It's going to keep going and it's going to probably keep going on the same essential exponential.

P

Peter Diamandis54:19

Yeah. Should update the book. Well, the next book that's coming out in March, I'm releasing at the Abundance Summit, is called We Are As Gods, and it's a realization that what we do between breakfast and lunch is godlike to our ancestors, right? I mean, and we take it so much for granted, but our ability to manifest the future, to literally know anything anywhere, connect with anybody for free. I mean, it's crazy. AI is one of the first things, the transformation that it'll bring about. And you got to think it's just the beginning.

K

Kevin Weil54:53

You kind of grow up and you're thinking back to when your grandparents grew up and you know you're like oh I'm so glad that I'm living at the time that I'm living. So you get all best time to be alive.

P

Peter Diamandis55:04

AI is the first time and you look at like what's happening in biotechnology and all these other things, brain computer implants, and it's the first time I've been like, man, I am jealous of my kids. Because the year 2060 is going to be so cool.

K

Kevin Weil55:19

Well, you'll be here.

P

Peter Diamandis55:20

I mean, I hope I'm here, but I mean, come on. This is why, I mean, the work you're doing, I hope I'm here in 2100, right? Like, I mean, it's the reason for me it was, you know, I grew up passionate about space. I wanted to see space play out. You know, NASA never did it. You know, Elon's gone heads down and you know, Bezos and others and so it's fantastic. But when I read Ray's book, The Singularity is Near, it was like, 'Holy, this convergence of these technologies is going to blow and accelerate everything away.' So, yeah, I want to see the interstellar missions. I want to see what uploading consciousness looks like. I want to see all of these things. And there is, I don't think there's any limitations beyond the laws of physics as we know them of what we're going to be able to do.

K

Kevin Weil56:08

So, and it's going to keep accelerating and like yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis56:12

Talking about your twins are how old now?

K

Kevin Weil56:14

Eight almost and mine are 14.

P

Peter Diamandis56:16

Okay. And so I think about their future and I am, let's, you know, speaking to the parents listening. How do you think about educating kids today in an age of AI? You know, I'm just livid about the schools that are saying you can't use AI at all in school.

K

Kevin Weil56:35

Oh, yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis56:36

It's like, you know, listen, my kids are going to be using it the moment they graduate every place everywhere.

K

Kevin Weil56:43

And I think one of my challenges is that if you give an eighth grader, you know, eighth grade homework to do with AI, it's meaningless. But if you give them like graduate level work to go and you know design a starship and figure it out, I mean that's amazing. That's what we should be doing.

P

Peter Diamandis57:02

Yeah. Like assume that ChatGPT exists and use it to make students learn how to use the technology but go deeper than they ever would have been able to do in a classroom setting.

K

Kevin Weil57:13

Yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis57:13

Like they should emerge stronger with using AI with their education. Actually the best book that I've read on this at least is by Ethan Mollick. Have you ever read his book? It's called Co-Intelligence, I think.

K

Kevin Weil57:25

Okay, great.

P

Peter Diamandis57:26

Short book. It's like a 90 page read. You do it in an hour, but he's a professor at UPenn. I think he's at Wharton.

K

Kevin Weil57:34

For you guys.

P

Peter Diamandis57:35

And just a great quick read, super practical. The way he uses AI, he leans into it. He's actually a very good Twitter follower as well.

K

Kevin Weil57:44

Nice. But he's incorporated into his class and has just sort of changed the way he teaches to assume that everyone is using AI and to use that to take them way deeper into a topic than they would have been able to do and raise the expectations on the final work product as a result.

P

Peter Diamandis58:02

Exactly. Right. But and I think that's true for all of society, you know. So, as we get to, let's forget about AGI and talk about ASI, right? Intelligence is a million fold or a billionfold more capable. What do we do with that? All right. And so I was inspired by Star Trek and Apollo. Those two things lit my fuse. And my first what I call massive transformative purpose was making humanity multiplanetary. Built a whole bunch of companies, built a university in space and then focused on other areas. As we start this incredible capability, humanity needs to go for these grand challenges. We need to have these epic visions.

K

Kevin Weil58:45

I couldn't agree more.

P

Peter Diamandis58:46

Otherwise, we will fade into insignificance.

K

Kevin Weil58:50

Yeah. There's a, oh, yeah. It's another book that I really loved, this by Robert Zubrin, The Case for Space.

P

Peter Diamandis59:00

Yeah, I know. Bob has been a friend for many many years. He makes this point very eloquently in the book about like the human need for frontiers as one of the reasons why space is so important because there are, you know, the bottom of the ocean is kind of still a frontier on Earth but there aren't that many of them left. And when there's a frontier no matter how you screwed up wherever you live on the frontier you can start again.

K

Kevin Weil59:20

Yeah. Yeah. Space for innovation and refreshing and renewal and like, yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis59:26

So when do you think that we will be multiplanetary? So I listen, well we'll see there's a hopefully a Starship 10 launch this Sunday. You know Starship will get us to the moon on a recurring basis by hopefully end of 26, definitely 27 and then Mars, you know, my guess is boots on Mars by 2030 but there'll be Optimus robot boots on Mars. And then...

K

Kevin Weil59:51

And you're limited in your iteration speed there because you only have a, you know...

P

Peter Diamandis59:55

You are, but launch once every 18 months, but you're going to send robots in advance. You'll send the robots to the surface of the planet. You'll send robots to the asteroids to go and mine materials. And the way I think about it, right, everything at the end of the day is one way or another driven by economics. And everything we hold of value on Earth, metals, minerals, energy, real estate is in infinite quantities in space.

K

Kevin Weil1:00:16

Yeah. And so, you know, the Earth eventually will be a crumb in a supermarket filled with resources, right? And that's a beautiful thing.

P

Peter Diamandis1:00:25

How's that going to evolve? Because, you know, Mars is an obvious target now. Everyone's been working on it.

K

Kevin Weil1:00:30

I like the moon better personally.

P

Peter Diamandis1:00:33

Better than Mars.

K

Kevin Weil1:00:33

Yeah. I mean, stepping stone or as a place to set up.

P

Peter Diamandis1:00:37

Go start a city. You know, there's these lava caves under the surface of the moon where you get protection from radiation. If you fill them with air at one-sixth gravity, you can strap on wings and you can fly.

K

Kevin Weil1:00:48

That's awesome.

P

Peter Diamandis1:00:49

I do this. I do this on my foot. It's much fun.

K

Kevin Weil1:00:51

How big are the caves? Is there a massive cave system?

P

Peter Diamandis1:00:54

There are huge caves. Yes, you could have thousands, millions of people in there.

K

Kevin Weil1:01:00

I don't know that. I mean, I can easily imagine thousands or tens of thousands. And then, of course, the recent announcement that NASA's planning to go put a nuclear reactor on the south pole of the moon.

P

Peter Diamandis1:01:13

So cool, right? In order to literally hydraulize the ice that's on the South Pole and create water and oxygen and... Yeah. So, I mean, we're finally living into that science fiction future and it's accelerating.

K

Kevin Weil1:01:25

Yeah. And hopefully fusion soon.

P

Peter Diamandis1:01:27

And hopefully fusion will solve a lot of problems here on Earth and open up new vistas for space.

K

Kevin Weil1:01:32

So, Sam is like what 2028 for Helion, I think is the current target dates. And Cambridge is coming on in 2030 thereabouts. So, it's amazing how, you know, a lot of these things bust loose when there's a single person that's just got an idea and they're incredibly passionate about it.

P

Peter Diamandis1:01:52

And now with AI as a force multiplier, the odds of those passionate people becoming empowered and actually achieving that mission is so much higher than it was two years ago.

K

Kevin Weil1:02:01

Yeah. And then you get the right density of startups and you have competition, you have different approaches, the ability to learn from different approaches and the probability of success grows.

P

Peter Diamandis1:02:10

And just trying to outdo each other and have fun and you could be in this future like where it really is a Star Trek future instead of a Mad Max future. It's like what ambitious super cool thing can you go for?

K

Kevin Weil1:02:22

Yeah. And it used to be just small number of people. It used to be just the kings and the queens and the robber barons could do anything impacting people. Now it's anybody using these tools.

P

Peter Diamandis1:02:32

Yeah, it's amazing. So I have a question as a chief product officer. Who names your models?

K

Kevin Weil1:02:40

Ouch.

P

Peter Diamandis1:02:41

Cuz it's like, you know, okay, I'm trying to understand the logic and the rhyme and reason.

K

Kevin Weil1:02:46

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We take a lot of well-deserved flak for the naming of our models. Sorry.

P

Peter Diamandis1:02:50

Sorry to give you a D by the way.

K

Kevin Weil1:02:51

No, it's totally fair. We lean into it. The fact that we had both o4-mini and 4o-mini at the same time is something to be proud of and then make the user choose if they have any. And then on the other side there's just ChatGPT simplicity.

P

Peter Diamandis1:03:08

Yeah, it's good.

K

Kevin Weil1:03:09

Yeah. You know, in all seriousness because by the way we deserve all sorts of flack for that. So totally acknowledged. But one of the reasons that you have that is the philosophy of iterative deployment. We could have waited like you have some new capability like reasoning for example. You know, up until we launched GPT-4o and it could do a bunch of new things like you know you could speak to it rather than just type to it.

P

Peter Diamandis1:03:38

It's amazing.

K

Kevin Weil1:03:39

Yeah. We'd been working on the ability for models to reason, right? To not answer right away, but to actually sort of think through the problem, try a bunch of different approaches, test them out, you know, just the way you would if I asked you to do a crossword puzzle or a sudoku or something, right? You don't just like spout out the answer. You've got to try things. You're like, 'Okay, if that was a six-letter word starting with A there, but it's got to have a B and this. Okay, it could be that. No, not the A.' Right? And you're testing hypotheses, refuting some of them, accepting some of them, and then kind of moving on. It took a while to teach the models that. It was one of the big breakthroughs from coming from OpenAI. The first model that could do that was o1 and it was easier for us and faster for us to launch a model that just did that and like wasn't an ideal model to ask for relationship advice or to you know ask who is the third Holy Roman Emperor or whatever like all the sort of normal things that you can ask ChatGPT. It was easier for it to be a very specialized model. It was very good at like thinking hard about scientific problems in particular and launching it as a separate model allowed us to iterate faster and allowed us to put this thing in people's hands and see what they did with it and what they wanted to do and you know what its shortcomings were and where it excelled. And so then we iterated a bunch that way. So you have GPT-4, you have o1 and then o3 and all that and then you have the mini models which are sort of smaller faster versions of those things.

P

Peter Diamandis1:05:13

Yeah.

K

Kevin Weil1:05:13

And GPT-5 for us was the moment where we kind of brought all of this stuff together and had one experience.

P

Peter Diamandis1:05:19

Elegant.

K

Kevin Weil1:05:20

But I expect in the future that we'll have other things where we have some new capability and we want to test it out faster than we can like integrate it into one massive thing. So I wouldn't be surprised if we have these kind of offshoots again in the future and then we integrate them as they work and we kind of gain mastery over them.

P

Peter Diamandis1:05:37

Yeah. Eric Schmidt talks about learning loops.

K

Kevin Weil1:05:40

Mhm.

P

Peter Diamandis1:05:40

Right. The speed of innovation is the speed at which you get learning. Put it out there, see how people think about it, give you feedback.

K

Kevin Weil1:05:46

Yeah. And I mean, especially with these, we're all kind of uncovering what these models can do. So, it's especially valuable for us to get it out in people's hands and let them build.

P

Peter Diamandis1:05:56

Yeah. The reasoning was just shocking actually. I don't know if was that true here, too. Like, nobody prior to o1 would have thought that chain of thought reasoning was going to be such a huge unlock.

K

Kevin Weil1:06:06

Yeah. Yeah, I mean it just starts with iterative reprompting which just worked far better than anyone ever would have guessed and that evolved into o1 and then o3 and I guess o2 was oxygen. I don't know what happened to o2, trademark issue something.

P

Peter Diamandis1:06:18

Trademark. Yeah.

K

Kevin Weil1:06:20

Yeah. But yeah, I'm sure there'll be other offshoots because again the capabilities are always surprising like even the best researchers in the world don't know exactly what's going to come next. So.

P

Peter Diamandis1:06:30

So I'm curious. It's interesting right? We just cruised through the passing of the Turing test and didn't notice.

K

Kevin Weil1:06:37

Isn't it amazing?

P

Peter Diamandis1:06:38

It's crazy. It's like it was held up for like 50, 60 years as this pinnacle and then we just like whooshed by it.

K

Kevin Weil1:06:44

What is the effect? People don't talk about it for granted like so quickly and they miss the implications because they're already on to the next.

P

Peter Diamandis1:06:50

Oh, I took it for granted. Like no, you got to think about what took now. It's like right here in our hands.

K

Kevin Weil1:06:55

Will we pass through AGI the same way? It was like oh yeah, it happened.

P

Peter Diamandis1:07:00

I think I really think so cuz arguably AGI is here.

K

Kevin Weil1:07:04

It's just unevenly distributed, right? And there are lots of ways where the model is way smarter than me already and I would never choose myself over the model.

P

Peter Diamandis1:07:12

Mhm.

K

Kevin Weil1:07:13

And then there are lots of places where the model is definitely not smarter than me yet and I would choose myself. But over time, I'm kind of staying, you know, I'm improving a little bit hopefully, but the model's getting better a lot faster. The level of water is rising. So, I just saw GPT-5 Pro was measured at an IQ of like 148.

P

Peter Diamandis1:07:36

Okay. On the Mensa scale.

K

Kevin Weil1:07:38

Wow. That's impressive.

P

Peter Diamandis1:07:40

Yeah. I mean, it won a gold medal at the IMO, right?

K

Kevin Weil1:07:43

Congratulations.

P

Peter Diamandis1:07:44

Was second at the... But one of the programming competitions. I mean, I have to... So, it was interesting, right? So I looked at the IMO, the International Math Olympiad stats and you know the US came in second and I think it's out of how many is that, of 36 points I think.

K

Kevin Weil1:08:05

Yeah, 36 out of 42. And the US had like between 32 and 36.

P

Peter Diamandis1:08:11

The Chinese team that came in first had perfect score across all six Olympiads.

K

Kevin Weil1:08:16

Wow.

P

Peter Diamandis1:08:17

I was impressed. So, our podcast mate, Alex Wisner-Gross, who's a total genius, he's been tracking that IMO score as the benchmark for self-improvement because, you know, that solving those problems is very very correlated with also iterating through the algorithm.

K

Kevin Weil1:08:33

Yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis1:08:34

So, I think there's a lot of belief now that we're going to go into this really rapid acceleration of capability because of self-improvement until the GPUs run out.

K

Kevin Weil1:08:43

Yeah. Yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis1:08:43

But the electricity runs out first.

K

Kevin Weil1:08:46

Well, I think, yeah, interesting because the GPUs are constrained. The electricity won't run out quite yet because we can't make the GPUs fast enough to keep up, but the software improvement is unconstrained, right? There's this period of time, I think it's coming right now, algorithmic improvement.

P

Peter Diamandis1:09:01

Algorithmic improvement that we swagged it on the podcast at between 100 and 1,000x, but recently there's some new news coming out that indicates maybe it's even higher than that. Yeah. I don't know if you guys have a theory on that internally or not. Like...

K

Kevin Weil1:09:13

Well, there's now two dimensions now that we're scaling intelligence, right? One is via pre-train which is kind of the traditional thing and now it's test time. How long are you willing to give the model time to think and how long can you kind of keep it on track as it does?

P

Peter Diamandis1:09:26

Yes.

K

Kevin Weil1:09:26

So with o1, o3 in ChatGPT you kind of get, you know, the model will think for like 60 seconds and then it'll come back and give you an answer. Most people don't want to wait too much longer than that. Deep research though will take sometimes 20, 30 minutes to go do a bunch of research and iteratively compile everything that it gets, figure out what it's missing, go back and get more. But there's no reason that you can't have a model think for two days, two weeks, two months, two years. You know, Andrew Wiles didn't solve Fermat's Last Theorem by thinking for five minutes. He worked on it for seven years. And we see continued evidence that the longer the models think, the smarter they get, the harder the problems they can solve.

P

Peter Diamandis1:10:03

So I mean there's this other dimension of scaling that today at least, we don't see any... Do you have a whole... like we see a lot of continued growth there? Yeah, there's a lot of work going on for a custom chip design that's designed by AI to specific. Do you have a whole strategy around that? Are you working with, you know...

K

Kevin Weil1:10:22

Yeah, that's one of those areas where you can let the model think and it's a pretty well constrained problem. Yeah. Right. There's a great simulation that you can climb on and you can run tests and understand if your layout is better than the previous layout.

P

Peter Diamandis1:10:37

Yeah.

K

Kevin Weil1:10:37

And the more time you give the models to think about it, the more breakthroughs they make. So I actually, I'm with you. I think that's one of the areas where we're going to see, I mean we already are seeing real innovation, right? I believe Google has been public about the fact that they've designed their TPUs and improved them with AI.

P

Peter Diamandis1:10:55

You know, we're doing similar things. I think if you talk to Noam Shazeer or anybody over there, historically the TPU team has been way the hell over here and the algorithms team is way the hell over there and trying to translate your algorithmic idea into something that the hardware guys understand is just a nightmare. So that's been a very slow process, but now because the AI will do it for you. It'll do the chip design right off your software design. That's going to be the big unlock. And I don't know if it's like this month. It's not more than what...

K

Kevin Weil1:11:23

Oh, I think it's already happening.

P

Peter Diamandis1:11:25

Yeah, it's already happening. And do you have a team here doing specifically that?

K

Kevin Weil1:11:28

Yeah, we're working on our own chips and we would be crazy if we weren't also using AI to improve our chip design and layout and everything.

P

Peter Diamandis1:11:34

Do you have all the manufacturing and fab all figured out too? Is that...

K

Kevin Weil1:11:38

We're working with partners on that for sure. But yeah, it's this class of problem where you have a fairly well, it's a specific problem and you have a way that you can grade it, in this case, speed of the chip that you design. And in problems like that where you have these well specified problems you can just iterate and iterate and iterate and apply arbitrary amounts of GPU and so far I think we're going to see arbitrary amounts of improvement.

P

Peter Diamandis1:12:06

I totally agree. It's crazy exciting. Is that fertile area for startups or should they stay away from that because it's just where the big boys play and...

K

Kevin Weil1:12:13

I totally think it's fertile area. It takes a lot of technical talent to do it.

P

Peter Diamandis1:12:17

Yeah.

K

Kevin Weil1:12:17

But I think that's an interesting spot. I know some startups doing some exciting stuff there. Material science and others.

P

Peter Diamandis1:12:25

Yeah. Material science, unsung hero and it will be a huge unlock.

K

Kevin Weil1:12:28

Yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis1:12:29

Yeah. Hey everybody, there's not a week that goes by when I don't get the strangest of compliments. Someone will stop me and say, 'Peter, you've got such nice skin.' Honestly, I never thought, especially at age 64, I'd be hearing anyone say that I have great skin. And honestly, I can't take any credit. I use an amazing product called OneSkin OS-01 twice a day, every day. The company was built by four brilliant PhD women who have identified a 10 amino acid peptide that effectively reverses the age of your skin. I love it and like I say, I use it every day, twice a day. There you have it. That's my secret. You go to oneskin.co and write peter at checkout for a discount on the same product I use. Okay, now back to the episode.

K

Kevin Weil1:13:12

Oh, it'd be amazing. Yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis1:13:13

And 10 Lieutenant Colonel Weil.

K

Kevin Weil1:13:16

Yes.

P

Peter Diamandis1:13:18

June 13th, you're inducted into the Army.

K

Kevin Weil1:13:20

Yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis1:13:21

Super excited about it.

K

Kevin Weil1:13:23

Super excited. Did you go through Army basic training?

P

Peter Diamandis1:13:25

We did a version of basic training. It was kind of an accelerated version.

K

Kevin Weil1:13:28

I mean, you're an ultramarathoner, so I mean...

P

Peter Diamandis1:13:30

Probably not. Yeah. So, but you know, we went and we've all passed our army fitness tests.

K

Kevin Weil1:13:37

So tell us about how did that materialize? You get a call one day.

P

Peter Diamandis1:13:43

Yeah. I got a call from Sham who, Sham Sankar who leads the CTO of Palantir. He's been there forever. And he and some of the folks at the top of the army were thinking about this program.

K

Kevin Weil1:13:55

I mean it's really smart. I mean I was impressed.

P

Peter Diamandis1:13:57

Yeah. And kudos to the army for being willing to take a risk on some crazy people like us.

K

Kevin Weil1:14:04

But I think it's awesome. And by the way I hope it... there's four of us today.

P

Peter Diamandis1:14:10

Yes.

K

Kevin Weil1:14:10

So it's myself, it's Sham, it's Bos who's the CTO of Meta and then Bob McGrew who used to be the head of research here. The idea is to bring us in and basically to create a group like bring tech and the military, the DoD closer together.

P

Peter Diamandis1:14:28

Yeah.

K

Kevin Weil1:14:28

Take a bunch of expertise that you get from, you know, working in the tech industry, a bunch of expertise that you get from being in the DoD and doing all the incredible things that the Army does and merge them together so that because we will be better together.

P

Peter Diamandis1:14:42

I mean, I imagine the Navy and the Air Force need to do something very similar.

K

Kevin Weil1:14:46

Yeah. And there's a huge push across the DoD to integrate AI as there very well should be. Like does us no good to have the best models in the world if they're sitting on the shelf.

P

Peter Diamandis1:14:55

Yeah. While the, you know, the PLA uses inferior models but integrates them everywhere.

K

Kevin Weil1:14:59

Yeah, no doubt. So it's super super important. The idea here was because there's lots of efforts, you know, to bring AI across the DoD. Palmer Luckey is a friend and he's been doing an amazing job at...

P

Peter Diamandis1:15:11

Oh totally, thank God for them.

K

Kevin Weil1:15:15

But you know you could have done this as a consultant but I think getting us in on the inside, first of all, I mean wearing the uniform you feel a responsibility. You go hang out with people who are, I mean literally giving their lives. But also just it's such an incredible institution that you wouldn't get that sense on the outside. I didn't have that sense before, you know, I respected it obviously but being on the inside is a different thing. Obviously I have a ton to learn. We're just getting started. But I think us being on the inside will allow us to be more effective. And when we go to wherever they would like us to go to help, we'll have that much more of a sense of how everything works and we'll be a part of the team as opposed to being a consultant from the outside.

P

Peter Diamandis1:16:05

Yeah. So, you have to go through the whole top secret clearance process and all the background checks and all that. Was that a...

K

Kevin Weil1:16:11

I had one already.

P

Peter Diamandis1:16:13

Did all four of you have it already or?

K

Kevin Weil1:16:14

Not all of us, but yeah, they had us go through. So then once you're inside, you know, on base, whatever, just access to everything. Is it, how's that work?

P

Peter Diamandis1:16:23

I mean, it's still very, you know, when top secret stuff is pretty heavily compartmented. So there's a need to know basis for most things.

K

Kevin Weil1:16:30

Yeah.

P

Peter Diamandis1:16:30

So they certainly don't just, you know, open up everything. But weird, things that are important for us to know, we can know and we can help in deeper ways than if we didn't have that access.

K

Kevin Weil1:16:40

Is there a schedule where like you go once whatever and...

P

Peter Diamandis1:16:44

It's a little more ad hoc than, you know, normal reserves duty. Here are kind of like a weekend a month and two weeks in the summer. And this is much more just because of the jobs like it's harder to be a weekend a month, but it's also we can go, you know, maybe deeper longer for specific things. We're also each going to take our own kind of focus that obviously we have to watch out for conflicts and so they've designed our focus areas based on that.

K

Kevin Weil1:17:13

What's your focus?

P

Peter Diamandis1:17:14

One of the things I'm going to focus on is like physical performance and how because you can imagine a lot of ways to use AI to monitor and improve physical performance.

K

Kevin Weil1:17:24

For sure.

P

Peter Diamandis1:17:25

You know like I've got a Whoop, I've got an Oura, I've got an Apple Watch.

K

Kevin Weil1:17:29

By the way which gives you better sleep data you think, or Whoop?

P

Peter Diamandis1:17:32

You know they disagree and I never quite know.

K

Kevin Weil1:17:36

I know I've got my, I've got an Eight Sleep as well. I got one of my best nights sleep last night. I got a 94 score.

P

Peter Diamandis1:17:41

Yes, that was great. That's amazing. The one thing mine agree on is I need to sleep more and deep sleep more.

K

Kevin Weil1:17:48

Yeah. Yeah. Let's wrap with advice for entrepreneurs right now. So, a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of builders here. As a chief product officer and they're building products, what sage advice do you have for them?

P

Peter Diamandis1:18:07

Oh, man. I think lean into the AI in every way possible and assume that it will continue on the super sharp steep curve that it's on. And if you're building, just imagine things that should be true and are not possible today. And I think a lot of them are going to be possible to build six months from now, a year from now, two years from now. And the people that see that and are building for that future, counting on the models to get there, like that's going to pay off because the models are going to get there.

K

Kevin Weil1:18:38

Yeah. All right. I do have an important last question for you. And it's this: has OpenAI reached fully reached AGI and what is Jony Ive delivering for you?

P

Peter Diamandis1:18:55

Oh man, I've been waiting to talk about this since we started.

K

Kevin Weil1:18:58

Really? Okay.

P

Peter Diamandis1:19:00

All right. So, [Laughter] and that's a cut, ladies and gentlemen. So, that's a wrap. Obviously, we didn't get information from Kevin that's exclusive on Jony Ive or AGI as much as I would love to, but hopefully if you're a builder and entrepreneur at home, this was super useful for you. I know it was for me. Every week, my team and I study the top 10 technology meta trends that will transform industries over the decade ahead. I cover trends ranging from humanoid robotics, AGI, and quantum computing to transport, energy, longevity, and more. There's no fluff, only the most important stuff that matters, that impacts our lives, our companies, and our careers. If you want me to share these meta trends with you, I write a newsletter twice a week, sending it out as a short two-minute read via email. And if you want to discover the most important meta trends 10 years before anyone else, this report's for you. Readers include founders and CEOs from the world's most disruptive companies and entrepreneurs building the world's most disruptive tech. It's not for you if you don't want to be informed about what's coming, why it matters, and how you can benefit from it. To subscribe for free, go to diamandis.com/metatrends to gain access to the trends 10 years before anyone else. All right, now back to this episode.

Open AI Insider on GPT-5, AGI & the Great AI Race w/ Kevin Weil & Dave Blundin

About Kevin Weil