Mr. David Reid, thank you for joining us today on Next in Line. Man, I've been looking forward to this date, for this recording for a number of reasons. It's been an absolute pleasure meeting you and talking to you and learning about the cause with Red M and what you guys are behind and the impact that you guys are having on such a challenging issue in the world right now. So, Next in Line just want to make sure that you also know about us as far as us as a podcast. Our north star is always about trying to pay it forward to anybody in the community, whether it be career advice, whether it be entering into the C-suite or college grad going into the first IT job or marketing CMOs, you name it, it's all about just paying it forward. This one is a little different because I'm passionate about what you're behind and I'm happy and excited about contributing my time and some of our company's time as well to make sure that we support the Miami chapter with you in the fight. We're 1,000% behind you. God bless for you doing this thing. You're affecting and you're taking care of so many different people on so many levels, my friend. So, if you don't mind, can you introduce yourself and your background and how did it all start?
Okay, I am currently CTO and CMO for a company called NOV. So, a lot of three-letter acronyms going on in my life. So, yeah, technology and marketing and a big manufacturer. We're about an eight billion dollar company. We make stuff all over the world. Big manufacturer, bit of software, but yeah, mostly I'm in with the creatives inventing something. So, but more kind of on the creative side. And I am the founder of an organization called Red M that we started seven years ago. And I wasn't trying to start an organization. It just happened to me. My wife and I have been involved in fighting human trafficking for about 15 years. I was basically trying to kick my kids out. So I thought I was being clever, but it backfired and turned into me getting involved in the fight against human trafficking. So we just journeyed in. I basically asked my wife who we going to be when the kids are gone and she jumped in and said we're going to fight human trafficking. So she originally was like in the deep end. She was working with an organization in Houston, but she was doing undercover work trying to identify where it was because Houston wasn't saying it's here. There's a lot of political reasons people don't want to admit that their city has this problem. And so we were on that side. She was doing care work and we ended up having survivors live with us, people who had come out and had gotten help. One in particular she worked with and then she ended up going through a program for recovery and then moved in for a while while finding their feet. So that was a beginning for us, but I heard it was how dangerous it was and I started to be a bit more uncomfortable with her doing particularly the work in the reconnaissance kind of world trying to work out what's going on. So we kind of moved to helping people who have exited the life and that was a safer place to be. So we did various things there and then ultimately I went on the board of that organization that she was working with and immediately had to start doing something to help them out more than the work they were planning. So the next day I went out on LinkedIn and we created a group of people who just wanted to make a difference, professionals trying to help out.
Thank you for sharing that, man. I didn't know that your wife was doing some reconnaissance work. Has she ever spent time in law enforcement before? That's pretty brave.
She worked in LA and like the Hollywood world for about 10 years and then we married and immediately had kids and she became a mom and that was her world. But when we said, you know, what are we going to do when the kids are gone? That's a big question for someone who just spent their life with her kids. And the one thing gift she knew she had was she was a mom and when she was doing that work she was immediately not someone they would suspect of doing that work so just didn't look like the kind of person they're going to be worried about.
Wow. Being a mom is, you know, that's one of the hardest jobs out there, right? It takes a special person to do this kind of work because just the little that you share with me, you know, it's hard to listen to. And that's why I had immediately, I had to do something about it with you, man, because it's like shameless if you don't do something.
It's amazing, isn't it? It's amazing that it's so here and we don't see it. But you got to understand this is a $300 billion business and their main work in this area is to not be seen and they've done a really good job of hiding from people and making it look like it's something it's not. And so, yeah, that's the estimate around that. They used to have it at smaller, but recent numbers they're up at 300 billion. It's the second largest criminal activity in the world. It's very big and it's more organized than you would know.
That's scary to even think about what people are doing a lot of, you know, for evil in my opinion.
Well, I tried for us is because people are scared of it. People don't like the story. I mean, if they can avoid it, they will. We worked that out early. We had a digital group and they assessed the people putting out messages about trafficking and they came back to us and said well if you look at the number of people who are fighting trafficking it equals the number of people who see the content meaning that the only people who see the content are the people already in the fight. So people swipe it and that was our first and most important learning was there's something about this that is well-designed and messaged through movies to make people think either it's not me or it's somewhere else and it's definitely something I don't want to see. It's an unpleasant thing. And so since it doesn't affect me, my family, then I'm going to not pay attention. Which is why we came up with the name Red M because we wanted people to start to see this message. And so how do you get society to wake up to something that they think doesn't affect them? And the messaging is so long and deep that people really believe that someone's out there saying I think I want to be a prostitute. Like someone said that someday and got a job that they say pays well and they love it.
Wow. There are people probably who do that, but the majority got to believe are not there. I mean, I see a lot of people come out of this. And so, you're dealing with an issue that people don't understand. And so, how do you get their attention? And that's our whole movement is how do you get society to understand what's happening? And so, that means we're pretty light in our messaging on purpose. We don't go down the rabbit hole too deep. I do have a podcast that does that on purpose that lets people if you want to learn, here's a journey for you. But generally our messaging is here's the world, here's trafficking in the world and what happens, which kind of tells you America is primarily sex trafficking based on the information we have. And most people are like, well, that's interesting because we know labor trafficking is happening here, too. So, how is that? And they think, well, maybe it's in some cities. And so, I use a map of all the calls that go in. So, there's a hotline that most people don't know the number. And it's a complex number, so you know, you have to really be in to be carrying that and know to call if you see something. But their map of the US has, you know, that shows the intensity of trafficking and it's basically a map of where people live. So everyone...
Like a heat map of... We show that and then we have a group called Darkwatch that are in Florida. They do... they basically take a scrub the web for reviews. So, believe it or not, people are writing reviews from buying sex. And that builds a map of where usually the main things that you find are massage businesses that are operating as brothels. And it's not that all massage businesses are brothels. It's just that that's a mechanism that they use. And you can tell in your neighborhoods. So, we show people that. We show them here's a bunch of red dots in your city. And what they notice is it's where I live. The first thing they're like, weird, that's where I live. So, yeah, so there's just one place where trafficking can happen is in these massage businesses. But we've seen a huge growth in the population of Americans trafficked, kids usually kids to start with. And then so we kind of take them to that why is it relevant to you? And we'll go through the ages of engagement. The boys right now the age of initial engagement is around 8 years old. Girls is 12 to 14. And everyone then everyone's like well hold on boys we haven't even thought about boys and we're sure deep like we think it's deeper but boys aren't talkers which is a challenge and gaming systems are the prime thing we see the most of. And they'll start the relationship at those ages but they will invest over years. Sometimes it's months, sometimes it's years before any trafficking happens. And even before that, even if they're engaging with them online, that's not trafficking. It's still only when they profit off of a child. But it is wrong. So there's laws I know Texas laws we worked on so that grooming can be identified. And so they'll spend time. And so I just had a father the other day, his daughter was 19, just came out of college, first year college. And she had attempted suicide and he had got her phone while she was in a care center and saw all these messages coming from these guys who she games with. So he knew of them. And I had to walk him through it like this is trafficking. This isn't what you think. It isn't friends. He go well it's been going on a long time. She's known these people. And I said well these people might be a person just so you know. This is not three men. This is probably one and they're working her in a way that is normal that we see all the time. And so they take kids through a journey. And we have to teach parents how to engage when this is happening because if you do what's natural to you, which is get upset and try and point out how wrong the person is. And they've been grooming them so that that causes them to separate from parents. So they've been expecting this day when you work out what's going on. And they've been brainwashing them that they care more about you than your parents do and your friends do. So they go through a process of separation.
That's scary. That's sophisticated manipulation.
Well, but if you think about it why they do it. I mean this is just the method of cults. I mean they'll keep them up all night. You know it's just a way to exhaust people and then you make them feel like you're the answer. So they think they're in love or they have a best friend, but they'll be up and up and up and up. So they don't sleep. So sleep deprivation is a cult technique to manage and manipulate people.
I didn't even realize that, but they know.
Yeah. You see kids up with their phone at night and they're talking to them all the time. And it's just a method to mush their brains so they can manipulate. So they'll take them down that road. And then when something happens, it's just like an occult when it gets weird. They're committed and there's no way back in their mind. They've already burned the bridges with the family. They've emotionally separated and this person who's been lovebombing them suddenly want something weird happens and they have different ways of making them think of it and then they start them down the trafficking road. I mean suicide is a very common thing you'll see when you see kids, I know you've been hearing this lately, kids they're having more issues emotionally than they used to have and then you hear suicide happening with kids where there was nothing appeared wrong. Usually that's a grooming process that is they've pressed them so hard that they're not going to do it and so they choose suicide or they have a guilt thing they're carrying from all of that and they're threatening them and the threats they believe are about to happen to expose them. This dad had got pictures sent to say that look I'm a good friend of your daughters. I have these pictures that he didn't send rude pictures he just sent pictures to show. And I said there are other pictures I promise you.
Wow. So, pictures of them together acting as friends?
No, no, just pictures she had sent him. The dad actually was on to it before this attempted suicide. So he had taken her to New York where she thought this person lived to the address to point out that this is not because he'd already tracked the phone to Mexico and he was like, this isn't right. So, he was trying to get her back. But of course when we try without education to get our kids back in those situations doesn't work because they have cleverly designed it that your normal behavior will cause them to not go back, tell you or not trust you.
Oh my goodness. So quick question on this like I mean how, you know, novice in this and just learning about this stuff and just it sounds like education, Red M is trying to solve this or fight this through education. What are some basics like parents could do to kind of be proactive?
Well, if anyone I know whose kid has had some kind of grooming happen, they wake up stronger than the regular parent. A regular parent of course saying you're hearing this and if I said their phones are not their phones, they're your phones that they are using. Now that's a problem depending on the age of the kid because all their friends have full autonomy on their phones. But anybody who's had this happen to their kid go straight to I will see everything that happens on your phone. And so there's software for that. Bark is the one I know of, but there's probably others. But I would, they can still get around that system, but it is a methodology to at least try and protect. At least it to one parent. So when we explain the grooming process is usually when we get someone to reach out and we have a great private investigator who's helped us even when kids are missing. So we've had about 34 cases now just in our community here in Houston.
Yeah. Well, we've had 13 cases outside of that that are executives whose kids have been taken. So everyone thinks it's just people who are in a poor environment. It's anyone with a vulnerability and a teenager and a child is vulnerable anyway. Doesn't matter the upbringing, doesn't matter the class or perceived class. And we put them, you know, parents will say, I wanted them to be on the internet because I want them to see the world. But really, what they're doing is inviting the world to see your kid. And we would never put our kids in the darkest parts of town. That's what you're doing when you're opening up the internet to your kid is all the predators out there have access now and they are skilled. They've done this a thousand times and now we're a kid who's not ready and you who's not ready and just open your door to something that we've managed to keep out of our homes for many years. And now it's in our homes. We had this one kid her parents were youth pastors and they had her, she was 16 and they thought there's no way she could be being groomed but when we described the behaviors they said it sure looks like it. Can you send in your expert to come sit with her? She did. And she came out. She goes, yeah, yeah, she's being groomed. They're like, how? She's homeschooled. She doesn't have internet access. She doesn't have any social media. There's nothing that they couldn't get to her. How? And she said, well, it's through mom's Bible app. It has a chat feature.
So, the kid's like, can I use your Bible app? Sure. So, it's literally anywhere with... they find a way. Even if you keep them off phones, then their friends will have phones. And so there's deterrence, but the relationship is really important to be watching them to understand where they're at. Learn how to speak to them. There's some really great materials online. There's an organization called A21. If you go to a21.org, they have education for all ages because there's things you have to teach kids, which is, you know, what a secret really looks like and or a surprise compared to a secret. And the idea that there's things that are just not okay and you need to be uncomfortable and you need to call it even if it's an adult and this is what predators are. I mean I was doing a training video and I never released it but it was on grooming and at the end I just felt really uncomfortable and there was a couple of things going on. One I was a male and it looked like I was training people how to groom because I'm explaining grooming but I was like wow this almost could be used against me. Stop that one. But then I realized there was something deeper in me and that I was groomed as a kid. And so what was happening was I was remembering those conversations as I'm describing what people say. I was like, man, this happened to me. Now I got away. Another kid did not. And two years later, the police came to our house and I was brought up in a loving family with all everything was good. My parents were like, how did you not tell us? And I said, well, he told me not to.
And you don't think about it. Well, and you built a relationship. So, it's not a stranger danger. It's 85% of trafficking is someone you know, someone. Family members, sometimes someone who you know because they built a relationship with you, but they will invest because the value for these big cartels and mobs is that a single person that they can traffic will earn them two to 300,000 a year and keep paying that money over and over and over. So, it's worth the investment.
Oh goodness. So that's I could see. Okay. Wow. From a just business that's you think if they sold drugs before or they sold guns, it was a one-time sale.
That's right. And then what they've learned is if they grab someone, which almost never happens now. That's complicated. You got to hold them down. So that's how people think it is. But they don't. They get the person to come to them. They build a relationship. They think they're in love. They think they have a friendship. They use that mechanism. So the person who's being trafficked doesn't know they're trafficked. They think they've suddenly had this life choice. I'm a sex worker. It's just that I can't... I've got so many times I've watched kids on the journey and then after the journey when they exposed it's a long journey back because psychologically they believe these things happened to them. They believe they chose it and that's very purposeful in the design of the traffickers.
And typically I mean I have a lot of just a couple questions. First thank you for sharing these resources. I wrote down some notes. We'll make sure we have them in the show notes. Because I, you know, I think just like I'm learning here on live, right? Education has got to be key.
Um and awareness once, like I said, to people who aren't ready to hear it. I mean, that's our how do we give bite-size because usually with what you just heard is all we say and then we're out. Most people in the space take you into the dark corners. You don't want to go in the dark corners. It's too much. Stomach can't take it. And we've learned that a lot of people have had sexual violation in their life if they haven't been trafficked. Sometimes people you're talking to will go, I think I was trafficked. That happens fairly. They don't even know. They don't even realize it. They don't talk. We had an older lady, an executive come up to me and she's probably 60 and she after we were talking and she said, I just I need to let you know you're the second person I've ever told, but I was trafficked as a child. And I'm like, the second person? Like who? Who did you tell? Who's the first person? My sister who was also trafficked but I've never talked before. And she's an executive today. Yeah. So she's that I'm assuming that's what one of the questions I was going to ask you. Like as far as the numbers like I imagine that that's not a normal thing like they make it out where now they're full living a functional executive life and all that. That's a small compared to the... Yeah. Yeah. I mean there's I mean she was sold as a child. So when you... it's familial usually families actually selling children that happens in poverty. The family their own families. Oh wow. Family member family member I just did a podcast with someone who was child trafficked but it happens and so you know it's weird. It's because you can't get your head around it. Like how could that happen? How could someone sometimes drugs but I've learned straight poverty can do it too. And if someone has been violated themselves, they'll make decisions that they shouldn't.
Even then the individual as a victim, if they've been violated, you would think that they would want to protect.
And some do and some don't. It's not a... I don't want to imply that that happens because of that, but that can as a result. Yeah, it's a very very complicated subject. I don't plan for everyone to understand it all. And I just and the reason we talk your kids is really important because generally people talk the big story and there's a big story. There's lots to know. But if I don't have you understand it's kids, you know, you're not starting this journey because it's just another charity. I got all these I got homelessness. I got, you know, whatever. Whatever I'm concerned about, you're going to rank them and say, I'm going to do something about this. But when I tell you it could be your child, your niece, your grandchild. When I talk to executives, it's funny because we say we don't need money because we don't need money. So our whole model is I don't want to be a charity. Now we do produce money. That's another story. It took me a while to train everyone like we're not here for the money. So you meet a corporation or I met an executive once and they have their fob off where they give to charities in a way that don't waste my time because people ask me all the time. This guy gave me as usual like hey we have a golf tournament and we give out a million dollars. I was like oh yeah no I already received some of that money. Thank you. But that's not what I want. And the guy goes, well, what do you want? I said, what I want is your grandkids not to be trafficked. And he was like, well, I want that, too. I said, good. We're aligned. Then I'd also like your employees kids not to be trafficked. Yes. And what we've learned when we do a care package build, I'll explain that later, but when we do that and we explain trafficking in a group of 30, usually at least one person's kid is being groomed in a group of 30 in a business.
So, yeah. And most of them go, wait a minute, this what you're describing is my kid right now. Like we're going through this. Oh. And then some of them know if they even mention that, but they can keep it quiet. They all think it's not... they think it's not trafficking. Everyone thinks it's not trafficking because it's designed to look like a troubled kid or having, you know, they're sending them to psychiatrists and psychologists and they seem to just be really heavy and but they're being separated. And even though that process is being used against them because the trafficker is like they think you're crazy, you're not crazy. They think you're immature. You're not immature. You're so mature. Like I think you could be a Tik Tok star. What? How did you know? Well, because you posted it already. You know, they just they have all this information that gives someone the experience of being loved.
So, they're building confidence in them. They're building what they may not be, right?
Big time. And parents are trying to stop foolishness. And so, at those ages, and then if they get them young enough, they don't get life experience. So, they don't learn how to live. So, as they're older and they start to be trafficked, they'll get them arrested if they can. They'll pick them up the next day and now they have a record. They can't get a job. Most places. So, now their career's shot. They have no life skills. Their records ruined or they can't rent a place. There's no way to live except through... Well, they believe they burned every bridge and there's no options. And so when we do care packages, we actually have people write notes to the people like this is going to someone who we believe is being trafficked. And they'll be like, well, how do you know they're being trafficked? I said, well, this is a care package of really simple items. If they were getting the money for the sex work that they were doing, they wouldn't care for this package, but they create it. It's really basic hygiene products, but they need it because they live on the poverty line. And then they get to and then they write a message to them to encourage them. And the really important thing is they've been told by their trafficker for years, nobody cares about you. I'm the only one and everyone else hates you. In fact, the rest of the world, you don't fit. You fit with this. This is where you belong.
And so that's a journey that you have to start to undo over time.
You mentioned that like how where do you like that's got to be difficult to unwind that, right? That manipulation because the train needs to be against you, right?
It's a growing skill that people are getting better at. So there's a number of care facilities that are developing, but no, it's now you're dealing with I'm going to undo cult-like brain trouble where your whole identity is lost, but now I'm going to also deal with multiple traumas where every sexual act works like a rape in your brain because it was a rape.
Oh lord. So you mentioned something there like this is a really, you know, obviously it's a massive issue and let's say you're trying to help this victim that went through this has to be really private. They're very much care facilities. It's funny take, you know, go walk you through that journey and make you get better, help you.
Yeah. And we've had to learn. I mean, people have learned, but you think the right thing to do because the first thing, why did this happen to me? And the first thing people say is, well, maybe he did it so you can help others, which is actually terrible because then they put him on film and they're talking telling. So real stories really work, but real stories for the person means you are now publicly someone who's been trafficked for the rest of your life and that means you're going to live with that identity. There's a lady who works in getting care packages to strip clubs and I'd met her years ago and she said, you said something to me early that changed my life. And I was like, really? Like I don't remember. And she goes, when I first met you, I was starting to tell you my story and you told me to stop then that it wasn't necessary for you to know the story of something that happened to you that is not who you are. And so she, you know, because you're reinforcing that this happened to you and it's your identity and it's not you, you want them to have freedom to have the life that was stolen. So it is complicated. You don't... I mean some of them choose that direction and they're going to just tell their story for the rest of their life and that's what they're going to do. Okay. But it's an easy thing to draw them into that path when I mean there's a lot of good people I know who have been trafficked. People couldn't tell. They got recovered. They're doing fine. They have a life of their own and they don't bring it up and they have a shell just un... they cannot penetrate it. They just that's the way they manage and they deal with it. They get help all the time. It doesn't go away when it's happened. I mean that's why I'm very passionate about the catching kids before it happens because one day with that is a lifetime in your head. It doesn't leave those experiences don't go away. So I will do everything I can to get the message to kids before it happens.
And to kind of go circle back to a little bit what you mentioned earlier. So your wife that started this right with you. What was like the trigger like, you know, empty nesters right? You know, the empty we were just rolling up to that and I honestly that was my goal was I wanted her to imagine... I'm Scottish so I maybe... maybe... But I think of kids as 18, 19, out you go, you know, go and fly. And I could tell that we weren't in agreement on that. She was definitely thinking great, they could stay here for years. And I was happening around my kids. And so I just was throwing the idea out hoping that she could imagine a future life where it was just us.
Okay. And so she went to a conference in Dallas and saw a lady called Christine Caine speak who A21 is her organization. And she just felt like this is my life purpose. And so she came back and said, this is my life purpose. And I was like, that's great for you. For you. So we flew to Greece, believe it or not, thinking that that was where the shelter was where the lady worked. And they said, you would have to live here if you want to do this work. And so she was in tears. She couldn't believe it because she was thinking this was all purpose and it was all meant to be. We came home from that trip and that weekend there was an op-ed done by someone who's become our closest friend who rescued a 14-year-old and that's when we learned it's here like it's here and we didn't know how big it was at first we thought one or two is great we can make a difference we can help but we didn't know I mean the governor's estimate for Texas is 79,000 children sex trafficked in this state.
Yeah sex trafficked not just labor. Perfect. I mean, that's the Texan stadium full of kids and some, you know, it's like and as you said, it's not like where you see these movies where it's like, you know, public kidnappings. It's way... it's not that makes the press. And then it's not all border. I mean, everyone loves to get into that, but I mean, if 85% of the rescues are American, so that tells you that this is the big farm is here.
Yeah. It's the easiest. I mean for the US I mean there's trafficking problems in every country, every state, every city. But...
David, are they taking from the US to other countries or are they keeping within the US?
So yeah, that's a good question because people confuse trafficking with smuggling because the word trafficking sounds like moving. It's got nothing to do with moving of anybody. It's just the wrong term and we've all become comfortable with it. So it's nothing to do with smuggling or moving of people. So it just means you're selling someone through force, fraud, or coercion. Those are the three tests to go do something for you at a low cost or for nothing. So yeah, it takes a bit to explain to someone that they didn't get the money, you know what I mean? They've been around the money and they had a boyfriend and it's a very complex unwinding, but it's amazing what can be done to a human mind, you know, to really believe and they're very adamant at first that that wasn't trafficking. This was something I was involved in. I chose it. I had a boyfriend. I had a friend.
The defense mechanism came up, right?
It's just human. It's human. And you see all types all different forms of education, all kind of backgrounds. Now, there are areas that are particularly targeted, but I don't talk about that because I need people to really start the journey. And so that's considered I'm often offensive to people who are working in the space because they're constantly trying to give everyone all the information. And I'm trying to only give enough information and people can learn the other stuff over time. It's trying to be successful. I mean, we've learned that the journey to telling people the story. When you're used to hearing the stories, you will roll them out all the time. Like you've heard me do a little bit, but people can't cope with that. They don't want to be your friend because... and it's not... they're not being mean. It's just like it's like someone... they can't deal with it. They can't. Yeah. If you're doing surgery all day and then you're trying to explain and show pictures of surgery like nobody's... people chose not to do that, right? People don't want to see it. True. They don't want to see blood and gas. They don't want to see people dying on a table. I mean, they don't mind watching it in a show every now and again, but so people who are helping people recover will tell stories and passionately because it's a passionate subject. So it is. I've had to learn to calm it down and make it so that it's consumable at a very simple level across society. And so that's why I start with your kids, you know, makes sense.
That's yeah. No, let me ask you, what is what would you say that the best way for somebody to contribute to help? Because I know that one thing when I first met you, you said it wasn't about money. It was more just like our context, our resources, and awareness. I mean what is something like basics that we can do to help with the cause?
I think you start a journey and there that we kind of designed it that way where there's a lot of light things you can do. You can take a red cup and you can take a picture of it on a Monday wherever you are. Hashtag red Monday and we do that Mondays. That seems simple. But what happens is in your feed everyone you know sees this every single Monday in some other place and they're more interested in this is they don't know what that is but where are you? Why are you taking this cup? And they see it and they see it and they see it and eventually they'll say what is with the red thing? What is that? That's right. And they'll take their time, some of them, to ask the question, but what happens is they stop and look at it because it's just a cup wherever you are. And their feed starts to get things about trafficking, not deep, but the stuff that we're doing will get fed to them. And so that's a beginning point is people can get something and start to message lightly. You don't have to know anything to do that. Just say, I'm against human trafficking and that's that. We actually don't say sex trafficking because it tends to still turn people off. So we'll talk human trafficking and we are interested in human trafficking. Sex trafficking just happens to be the easiest one to get people's attention with. There is plenty other trafficking going on and those...
People find it really hard how much people sensationalize sex trafficking because it's closer to people's hearts and easier for them to feel like this could be something or it is violating. It's very clear. So something that you mentioned there, I guess do people initially get a little worried because they fear that they might bring that attention towards them?
Yeah. And some honestly for men there's a lot of complicit stuff where people are like I don't know if I want to talk about this. I had one guy very early said I have the cup but I don't want to put it up there because I've been places that I don't want someone's going to call me out on it. And I said well maybe but I mean you're now no different. So that's people have like I live in a non-judgmental environment because I'm a businessman who travels so every hotel you go to there is a prostitute there or someone being prostituted. I had to change my learning because most people are being prostituted.
Wow, you know that's when you mention stuff like that you would think Vegas right or something like that.
Every hotel they know it they're in court every day about it right now because a lawyer is going to go after who a trafficker? No, a lawyer is going to go after someone who's complicit. And hotels are doing their best. It's law here that people get trained. I was asking one of the hotels, what do you measure? And they said, well, we've had 250,000 employees watch the training videos. I'm like, good. How many times do you get calls? I don't know. I'm like, then you're measuring the wrong thing. Because we had this with Houston airports. They were using lead campaign and it's a great kind of poster and messaging thing. They all get trained.
And they came to me and said, we're thinking about taking the posters down because we got no calls, which must mean there's no trafficking. And I was like, oh, no. Let me build something for your employees. So, I took a company whose marketing department. I said, hey, will you help me build a museum for employees at the airport? So, we did. We built this pop-up museum to help humanizing the children like it could be your child.
And tell stories. The most powerful thing that we had about 400 employees came to the first training and we had you know these leather chairs you sit on at the airport that have the metal between them they're uncomfortable you know those the massage or you talking about?
No no just the uncomfortable leather ones the normal seats you're waiting for a plane there's the they're like you know what I'm talking.
So we had a set of five we painted the middle one red and we told a story of a 10-year-old trafficked through IAH. And before we started this lady came up and she said do you mind if I get a picture of you behind the chair I went, no, it's fine. And she took the picture and she said, you know why I wanted it? And she goes, I was the 10-year-old.
I've only told that story in a book that you're quoting, but I've never spoken about it. And I was like, do you want to speak today? And she went, actually, here, yeah, I want to speak. She was ready. She was there for her job. She didn't expect to see her own story or be speaking, but she said, I do have my unaccompanied minor pass and my ticket in my bag at all times. She stood out and blew their minds with something they would have thought was a safe day. And she didn't look like the person. She's a very strong woman. She's got her own TED now. She did a TED talk on that.
Did a TED talk as well. So that's another level.
Well, there's a lot of really great speakers who over time have learned how to talk about it. But you know, this is a few years ago. She wasn't really talking about it. Now she does. She's been fighting the law. She actually in going after her trafficker learned that she was too far beyond the statute of limitations.
Statute of limitations for life as well.
Well, not anymore. So, she went back and changed the law. So, that's what she does. She's fighting. She actually works for the DA's office in Fort Bend County. Now.
Let me write that. So, she's part of the DA.
Yeah. At the DA's office, the district office. My sister's DEA. Yes. Anyway, so she got up that day and that changed the numbers at the airport. They don't like to put out the numbers. It's funny. I was at an event where they were applauding Houston for their engagement in fighting trafficking and I'm like that was us like we were a part of changing that culture and really Rhonda getting up and speaking. So we had her talk at other airports. Anyway.
You like being like but your organization is the way you look at it. You like to be behind the scenes like you don't want.
Yeah. We're not trying to draw attention to us. We're trying to get people aware, but what we do is we basically take business people or anybody and we say, what do you love? What do you want to do? And what can we do with that? So, like I say, the cup is easy, but I mean, we've had all sorts. We had a lady, which we started doing nights to remember here, which is we started creating an event to celebrate culture. So, we did Spanish night with Flamenco dancing, Mexican night. We've got a Mexican night coming up and it's got that wrestling. You said wrestling with the masks like lucha libre.
Exactly that's they're about to do that and that's next to.
So we do like all sorts of things. Some companies run events just to generate money. Even though we generate money, the goal is to really engage people. So we do things that don't say trafficking on them and then people come and we tell them a little bit about trafficking in the middle of it and let them start the journey. Action Speaks last summer, we were just like summer's always quiet in the events world. And so we thought, what could we do that's easy for companies and so we had companies, we give them an Amazon list of hygiene products and then within a week we can go to you order it, we turn up, you pack the bags, we tell the story, you write notes to people who are being trafficked, you become aware. In a week with a thousand bucks, suddenly you've had an event without it costing you anything for a big corporation.
Can you send me that list of the products?
Yeah. Yeah, we have a person. So I'm useless in everything because I just have thousands of people who do stuff.
Well, you're the marketing, you know, very unique background, marketing and IT. So you're hitting from like two weapons there.
Well, there's a lady just as Action Speaks for Houston and we just had one company do it in multiple cities. So, we had a new problem. They're like, we have all these bags. What do we do with them? Like, okay, I'm going to find every city that you're in and we'll find someone to take the bags. But, we had Canada started up. I mean, we're in 10 cities already.
Can you share a little bit about that, too, because that blew my mind. So, you started out of Houston and how many cities across the US now?
So where in North America we have 10 cities adding Miami coming up. Right. So basically if I travel anywhere I usually just say I go on my LinkedIn I find people from that city and say you want to learn about Red M go to lunch. When I did it in Midland they called back and said we have four sponsors but we're limited to 50 and we have 70 people want to come. And I was like wow. Well originally I was doing them. Now I just have a retired lady who sits on my LinkedIn and invites everybody from that city though because I can't keep doing that. Like it was too much.
You got your plate full like.
Yeah, there's a lot I find ways to get stuff done. I mean I'm a part of a large corporation with a lot of people. So I'm used to getting stuff done with others. So I try and make it as easy as possible. So we're in I'll go through all our cities. Let's see. We have the Bay Area which was really two visits. It was San Francisco and Palo Alto. So they worked together. Let's keep going across. We need LA. We don't have LA yet.
Not yet, but we I mean if you're in any city, just reach out. We've got we're building a kit of how you start. And then so anyway, let's keep going. Calgary in Alberta. Then we have Denver. We have Midland, Austin. We have Dallas and Fort Worth that are not the same.
No. What? There's a border there or something like what's.
Yeah. Two different personalities, I guess. And yeah, that's what happened there. What else would we go? Who am I missing? Boston. We started. It has not taken off as well as we'd like, but Boston's on our list.
Yeah. Well, now you got a recruiter with some really good recruiter skills. I'm looking at you know we know how to we just need teams and then it's we're working on how do you build the team so the answer right now is everyone we do have Europe so we have London Aberdeen Paris Rotterdam Amsterdam all starting yeah all starting now yeah just starting yeah so there we're in conversations and we're building people but what it is if someone travels somewhere or you know wherever that is that's how we start but we're doing thing started in Scotland the home motherland where you from.
Yeah. So, it was I was home. So, I just invited some people to a meeting. So, yeah, what we're doing right now is the people who want to start chapters are coming to our what we call chapter chats. Oops. Chapter chat. So, basically everyone gets together and talks about what they're doing and you can kind of learn from each other and then we have a kit that we built out of what does it take to do it. I mean generally we tell people in a city find an organization that is just doing sex trafficking and support them not doing fighting sex trafficking not doing it is really.
Yeah but the opposite so yeah so once we found an organization to help then you have something if you fund raise you can give your we give 75% of the profits to this organization and so.
Some when they start they'll give all of the profits just depends when we started We had three years in Houston where we didn't have a 501c3 and we would just give the money straight to an organization.
But now you have all that.
We're not generating tons of money. We are doing a lot of events. We did 90 events last year in Houston. 90.
Yeah, that's a lot. Now, we didn't all the events. She's I don't go to them all. No. Yeah, we had a dinner and afterwards someone said looks like there was four things on tonight. I'm like, cool. I went, well, let's look at the pictures. Is there someone we know there? Yeah. Okay. And it's okay because it's a very Red M kind of stands for resource empower develop movement. And we just resource people with information. Then we empower them to do stuff and we help them develop. It's pretty simple.
So it becomes easy. It becomes an easy. The whole idea is make it as easy as possible for people to get involved.
We try and, you know, you have to make sure that they're the right kind of people. You know, you never know who you're dealing with. So, you have to kind of make sure because we have kind of a how it feels to be a part of Red M and what we expect people to be like because always kind like there's a lot of things we need. Definitely not political, definitely not religious. So, if that's required for you, go somewhere else. That's cool. But we're not polarizing. We're purposely not polarizing. We need everyone involved. And that means people who are like you and people who are different than you.
No, this is the fight. So, have you heard of you know the organization that I've been working with and have a lot of respect for is House. It's.
Definitely talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like hopefully that's going to be a good partnership that can help each other with awareness and training. But some of the stories I've heard there, it's just it's very difficult to see. Some of 12-year-old children, some of the South American fronts that are doing recovery from trafficking are orphanages.
They're fronts. They're not really orphanages, but they're in the countries they're in, they're not allowed to say they're getting kids out of trafficking. So they call themselves and I won't say names but they're operating in countries that you couldn't have a place to stop trafficking. It's a I think you find orphanages, foster care, any kind of foster care and know these are places any kind of hospital, any kind of pregnancy centers, whatever they are, they're all homelessness, they're going to see prison, they're going to see trafficking in all of these places because of vulnerability.
Oh Lord, and it tackles vulnerability. And that's just mindboggling. Well, I mean, how proud of you are of your wife now.
It's great. I was not planning on knowing any of this stuff. She definitely took me down a road and it took me a long time to work it out that if I a few years ago in a podcast, someone asked me, you think this was what you were always meant to do? I'm like, no, no, I just have a day job and I do lots of things with lots of people and I'm used to dealing with large organizations. So, a problem started fixing it. Well, that changed after that. I started to realize this is a big deal. Like we're going to do a lot of stuff. So, we're starting to work with the World Cup. We're working on an ad campaign. So, things are really rolling and growing and we're trying to just let it be as viral as possible.
Some guide rails, but I am very proud of my wife and what she's brought to my life through this.
She's a special person. I mean, I'm looking forward to learning more and actually meeting her. She's picked something that just I guess I think things like this find you.
Yeah, she felt that way and I really was like I don't know what you're talking about. Like I was not expecting this subject.
You at first like in defense mode first, right? Like wait a second.
I just was very much it's you. And then I found out dangerous it was and I went no no it's not. This can't be you the way you're doing it. It has to be. So when I learned that the safest place to be, it's safer to not be recovering kids like going to get kids and it's better for them to choose to leave. So the weird thing is they live free. And if you can convince them to come away, then the traffickers don't chase because they've put their work in and they have percentages on their side. If you rescued everyone today, not that rescue is the wrong word because they come out of their own volition, then it's the wrong term. But if everyone got out today, most of them would go back. Like 80% would go back.
Because of the brainwashing and the barriers. When they come back into the normal life, they're like, I don't feel right here. I don't feel welcome here. I don't understand it. I understand that. And as horrible as it is, it's what they've known and been conditioned to.
And what is the age range for them to, you know, typically break free or like is there.
There isn't one. They come at all ages. There's not a lot of good young children help. Most of the states prefer the government system. So if there's people start doing under 18 homes, it's really hard to stay open. Most of them close. And but you're going to know even if you look at all the beds we have, you're better off being an animal in America than you are someone who's been trafficked. There is barely any beds anywhere.
Oh my god. The numbers are I mean when you have a home you've got a long line of people trying to get into it.
So it's not even having the resources available the like it's just hard. So if someone breaks out what do they typically they don't and they don't know I mean sometimes they have family members and we have one organization that we help who just does care services. They're not a house and people can start to pull their life together. It's just a journey even for them to if you can get them to I don't want there's some stories I can't tell but if you can get someone to choose to be away and you can cover that with a family member or anybody but just get them separated from it and give them time and get them counseling and help online. There's groups that get together.
There are services out there. There are things. And what happens to them as a result of all this that it's a complicated human being that comes out and they're not the same person that went in obviously.
There's a lot of I think the thing surprised me the most early was we found that we were really comfortable with people who have been through this and that was our like we know we can do this, we know we can be with them and we would do like movie nights and painting classes and all sorts of stuff. We were comfortable. But the one thing that you could be around people in your day who have been trafficked and you don't know it and that's more common than you would know. And so it's learning to humanize because what's happened is dehumanizing and it's learning to just be loving with people, you know, and not kind. Yeah. And kind. And there's so much you can do to and asking people in a gentle way, you know, is can we help you? Is there anything if you can start to see people better around you you're on the right journey. There's a great so I have a podcast called the movement.
Yes the movement it's on join redm on YouTube but I think it was my third one's Kathy who's a wonderful survivor and overcomer of this but she does a great job of spelling out how to be better humans and how to be if I was asking her a question that she answered no way that when people are really skilled at this, you can learn a lot. So, she really explains how to think and be to be useful for people who've been trafficked and have that kind of trauma in their life, complex trauma.
Is she active within the organization to help train and.
