Kind of the same answer. I don't know how I knew about it. And, you know, called Jeffrey like, 'What the hell's going on, Jeffrey?' And I was like, 'Do you think I'm stupid?' Yeah. Like, this was a bad girl. You know, I was on a date. She made all this stuff up. You don't think I behave this way, would you? Like, I hope not was probably what I said because I couldn't believe that anybody that I knew would behave like that.
And what you're describing, is that the original single conversation you described earlier or is that a separate conversation with Mr. Epstein about the issue?
I'm a little confused. The question about the lady in the hotel in New York was one conversation and the notion or the discussion about Jeffrey's interviewing models, I think, was a separate one and they didn't happen simultaneously. I understand. It sounds like that might have been about four years apart from each other.
You could tell me four years or four months. I don't remember.
So, it sounds like at that point there would have been at least two conversations with Mr. Epstein about the broader Victoria Secret issue. In 2004, a woman named Elizabeth Thai had a similar experience. She was invited to Mr. Epstein's New York home under the impression that he would be able to get her a job as a Victoria's Secret model. Mr. Epstein apparently allegedly undressed and handed her a vibrator. Miss Tai threw the vibrator at his head and ran out of the room. Were you made aware of this allegation at the time?
I never heard this story before.
In 2005, the New York Post ran an article describing a Romanian model who allegedly landed a gig at Wexner's Victoria's Secret brand thanks to Mr. Epstein. Did you have any knowledge about models who actually acquired jobs at Victoria's Secret directly or indirectly through Mr. Epstein?
No, but I didn't meet, interview, or pick models. That wasn't what I did and no one in the business did.
And but just to phrase it clearly, to your knowledge, did Victoria's Secret ever hire or contract with a model at the recommendation of Jeffrey Epstein?
No. I can't imagine they did. I wouldn't know if they did, but the way that we handled our marketing, it couldn't have happened that I think I would have known because it just wasn't the practice.
Could I ask one follow-up question with respect to that second conversation and the young woman named Alicia Arden? I know they were a few years apart, but if you recall, was there any part of you that doubted whether Mr. Epstein had been truthful in his denial with you the first time?
At that time, I don't think I connected them. You can't imagine how busy I was. I was engaged. I was married. I'm running 20 businesses. I never made the connection.
And as far as you recall, those are the only two times that you were alerted to Mr. Epstein holding himself out as affiliated with Victoria Secret.
It's been reported that following Mr. Epstein's arrest in 2019, the limited company L Brands retained two different law firms to investigate Epstein's affiliation with the company. We're not aware of those reports ever having been made public. To your knowledge, were those investigations completed?
This would be after the arrest. So, in 2019 and 2020.
I'm not aware that the board investigated Jeffrey.
And I think the first law firm investigation was for the board, broadly speaking, and then some individual board members engaged a law firm to perform a second investigation. But it sounds like you have no knowledge of either investigation.
I found out about two weeks ago from one of our ex-board members that he had hired Kroll to investigate Jeffrey and I never knew it.
Could you elaborate on that just a moment? In other words, a board member described what exactly?
This was two weeks ago that he was worried about Jeffrey and he asked Jules Kroll to investigate him. Is Jules Kroll an investigator? White collar criminal? He was a Justice Department, FBI kind of a guy. Started his own, I think it's the largest international and private investigation firm in the world. And so he said, and I said, 'So what happened?' And he said he didn't think Jeffrey was a good guy. And he said, 'What else?' He said, 'That's all he would say.' He said, 'Just not a good guy.' And he said he asked him for specifics. And Jules said, 'I don't have any specifics. He's just not a good guy.' Whatever that meant.
Do you recall approximately what time frame the Kroll review was undertaken or how was it described to you?
Well, the way it was described to me is the board member asked Jules Kroll. He didn't tell me it was a board thing. And so it must have been, I don't know, about '19 or '20 because I know when I retired, I know when I, and I think I know when CO was and all those things that happened. But I had no knowledge of it and I was quite frankly, I wasn't, it made no difference to me but I was kind of surprised that somebody on the board would investigate somebody and not tell me or, you know, as the founder, principal, whatever, just they didn't, which is probably a good thing.
So, for the two law firm investigations I described and this separate Kroll inquiry, it sounds like you had no awareness of those when they occurred.
I would like to introduce Minority Exhibit J.
So, as you can see, this is an email from June of 2008, right around the time that Epstein plead guilty to soliciting a minor for prostitution. And you said to him, quote, 'Abigail told me the result. All I can say is I feel sorry you violated your own number one rule. Always be careful.' And Epstein replied, 'No excuse.' So clearly either you knew or Epstein had said to you that his number one rule was to be careful. What in your recollection was he so careful about?
About being honest and stealing from us. These criminal, terrible, horrible things that he did. And I don't know what prompted me when I saw this. I think it was just giving him the finger. It's just something in the news. Maybe it was the fact that Abigail told me and I was just cooking on it and I just would have like, you sold yourself as a careful, honest fiduciary and you completely robbed us, did all these terrible things.
