Hello you golfing legends and welcome back to another episode of the original off course. I'm your host Dan Edwards and joining me this week is I've been sitting on this for days. I don't know how to say it. Two Toulons or Toulons if you will, Preston and Sean. The heart of the enterprise. It's great to have you both on the show.
Thanks Dan. Always lovely to see you. It's always just a ray of sunshine.
Dan is a ray of sunshine. Dan, nice to see you again.
I can't decide how this is going to go other than great. But it's a fun way to kick it off. But you guys have a lot going on, especially since the last time we chatted. There's a brand new series out for 2026. And I recently got to experience a little chat with Sean about the new head that I will assume will be a very polarizing product out there, the Houston. So, what I'd love to do, and it sounds like Pops wants to do a little bit of color commentary today with Preston keeping us honest. So, Preston, if you want to jump into the new lineup and give us a heads up on what's going on with you guys, that'd be awesome.
Yeah. So, Formula last year was a really big hit for us. It was kind of our entrance into the zero torque segment that's getting cloudier and blurrier and more and more crowded. And you know, it would have been really easy for us to just jump in with a pretty simple zero torque straight toe-up putter, but we wanted to be more thoughtful about our entrant into that kind of segment. There's plenty of people that zero torque toe-up putter works for and there's plenty of people it doesn't work for. It's one of the most sold putters at retail, most sold style at retail. It's also one of the most returned styles at retail. So, we wanted to make sure when we came into this market, we were serving the people it does work for and also the people it didn't work for. So that's where we decided to expand beyond just 90 degrees toe-up to 45 degrees toe-up, which generally if people struggle with zero torque, it's because they miss a toe-up putter pull side. So we wanted to introduce something that actually works with a golfer to help them with a miss pull side with a zero torque putter. So that's where 45 came in. And we did it in 2025 with our Miami shape, which is just a really nice multi-material, super forgiving mallet. And we introduced it in a 90 and a 45 and a CS or center shaft to try to kind of wall off every part of this toe-hang spectrum. And now coming into 2026, in 2025 it was really successful with Miami, but we wanted to introduce a few more shapes to it. Because looking around the space, it seemed like golfers weren't served with different shapes and different options that were interesting to them. And whenever we launch a product, I want it to be something that can solve a problem for a golfer, not something that can help us sell more putters. Usually if you solve a problem for a golfer, you happen to sell more putters, but as long as you keep the golfer first, I think you make the right decisions product-wise. So in 2026, we're releasing a new shape called Houston. But then we're also releasing our Monaco shape, which you might have seen in the 26 collection. We're releasing that in a 45 and 90 as well. And those are all designed specifically to help golfers. And so with Houston, the way I describe it is it's obviously it's square, it's angular, it's sharp, it's aggressive, but I call it performance through geometry. And I really wish it was more complicated than how I'm about to explain it, but really it is just if the purpose is to keep this thing square as can be, could we make a putter head whose shape visually communicates that to you to keep it square?
You don't have to apologize. You're gonna do whatever you want anyway.
I did well, but I do want to hit on a couple of things that you said which I think are very very important. So much of what we learn we learn 40 feet from here in our putting studio where Preston spends a good deal of his time working with golfers. And when he says zero torque was the number one selling but was the number one most returned, you know, the light bulb is very bright and it asks you one simple question, why? And what he talked about is this idea of a pull-side miss. So for most golfers up until the last couple years, most golfers grew up putting with anything other than zero torque. So the way zero torque works is on the way back that most putters, non-zero torque putters have torque or so they will want to actually open up on the way back, right? And torque isn't a bad thing. Having torque that isn't fit for your stroke is a terrible thing, right? So, if a putter wants to come back and open, which almost all putters do, then the golfer needs to reapply torque to get it back to square. Right. So, you've and if Dan, you'll remember Tiger always talking about that old Newport 2 that he putts with that he understood the release point, right? And that was sort of the torquing and retoring of the putter to get it back to square. That's all that really matters. Are you able to do that? The people that struggle with zero torque for the most part have learned how to putt with some rotation in their stroke. Right? So, if you try to rotate or add, you know, retorque to a putter that doesn't torque in the first place, it's going to go left. And like anything in golf, once you figure out how to miss one left, you will figure out very quickly how to miss them to the right. And then you just kind of go down this ugly hole and you know you get lost quickly. So that was really what we were looking to try to understand better which comes it's crystal clear when you work with golfers. Then the second part of it is which and then I'll turn it back to you Preston was this idea of can you develop a shape that would create a different motion and it is an unequivocal yes. And if you think of a putter working better best that has very little or no torque, you would want a shape that would help you rotate it less and probably take your swing path and shallow it out, right? That way, you know, this notion of straight back, straight through would be pretty appealing. And our thinking was, could we design shapes that would help at least some golfers, maybe many golfers, maybe most golfers reduce all of that.
So, just to bounce back to that a little bit that I assume people will have questions. Well, I know all about face balanced and I don't know a lot about zero torque. So, can you break that up a little bit? Because obviously with a lot of toe hang it's not face balanced but when you do have toe hang it is operating slightly differently than a traditional zero torque concept would, right? So can you just provide a little clarity on that as well.
It's all varying points of the toe-hang spectrum. So when you look at face balance, so if toe hang exists on a spectrum of 90 degrees which would be like a toe-down putter, like a bullseye, to toe-up, which would be like these zero torque putters. That would be 90 to negative 90, right? So, when we get to a face balanced putter, we're sitting right in the middle of that spectrum, right, at zero. And then when you get into a zero torque putter, we're going all the way to the far left side of that into this negative 90, right? So, all of this, there's no such thing as an arcless putter. Like everyone is going to have an arc. There's no way to not do that. As soon as human hands touch a golf club, torque is going to be applied. So, even if you use a face balanced putter like a traditional double bend or single bend neck, something like that, it's still going to arc a little bit. It's not going to arc as much as like a plumber's neck or a slant neck would for sure. But it's still going to have a little bit of arc because as soon as human hands touch a putter, you're going to start arcing it. When you get down into these zero torque putters, they're designed to arc even less than a double bend would, right? So, it's all zero torque is in many ways it's aspirational. It's I'm doing everything I can to remove as much twist and remove as much arc as I possibly can. I'll never get all the way to zero because that's just not a real thing. You know, that would be like a maybe a pendulum, a robotic arm or something like that, but it's not going to be me, my dad or you, Dan. So face balance, it's just going to be there's still some arc, but zero torque is going to be a lot less arc than that double bend even. So it's just where do you want to be? How much arc are you looking to get rid of? How much help do you need?
So going back into this 0-45-90 concept, there are a lot of people that go and they putt and they putt against their flaw. And so what they maybe don't realize is well they aim left to putt right or they aim right to putt left. They're doing it naturally and once you get them set up in a system they're like well I just don't feel like I'm putting the right way. It's because they're not seeing it correctly because they've already created the line with which they need to putt down. So I would call that problem one. And then I have loads of friends and loads of people and this is what I talk a lot about is like are you putting with the putter? Are you putting against the putter? You should find something that works with your stroke as opposed to you fighting it along the way through. Kind of like a car that's out of balance is going to veer towards one way or the other. You want something that just goes straight and functional in your approach to the putt, right? So I'd love to hear the perspective from you, especially Preston, being that you do all these fittings and get this experience, people coming in there. How much of that do you see where people are 100% putting or working against their traditional stroke? And is it easy to get them into something that works for their stroke?
It's funny, one of the scariest things in golf is a golfer's subconscious, Dan. Because we're all deeply flawed individuals, and that's before we ever pick up a golf club. And when you pick up a golf club, you just learn you're even more flawed than you thought you were before. But generally, most golfers aren't nearly as bad as they think they are. Most golfers are actually pretty darn good. Most golfers can't aim. I include myself in that segment. And when you can't aim, you're going to subconsciously invent a way to get the ball online. So, I mean, when we work on our Quintic ball roll here in our studio, you know, all the time, I'll have like collegiate players like San Diego State players come in here often. University of San Diego golfers come here often. So we get to work with some really accomplished collegiate players who have beautiful putting strokes, right? But there was this one kid who came in and with every single putt, every single putter, every single type of neck, he was two degrees left with his face angle. And it didn't matter if I put him in a short slant with a wicked amount of toe hang. It didn't matter if I put him in an H1 with a mild to moderate. Didn't matter if I put him in double bend. He was always too left, right? I didn't really care because he did that every single time. And his subconscious has learned how to solve that to get a putt on line, right? So, it's really really important to do things consistently. If we can help you do things consistently correctly, that's even more important. Sometimes that's a fool's errand. But what I tell people often is when they come in here, and we fit them for a putter, so many people are working against their stroke, but it's mostly because I don't know, Dan, like of the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people who have come through our studio. I'll ask him, hey, have you ever been fit for a putter? And overwhelmingly, it's 95 to 98% no. And I'll ask him, hey, have you ever been fit for a driver, fit for irons? And it's overwhelmingly 95-98% yes. Right? So, you go through your full swing fitting and then they just tell you, hey, go to the putter corral, pick a putter, whichever one you make five in a row with, that's the one, right? There's no science to that. And that makes it really really easy to identify when golfers are fighting against or using the right putter for them. And there's many many things you need to fight through, but most golfers aren't nearly as far off as they think they are. And yes, most golfers are compensating for something they don't even realize they're compensating for.
So that particular golfer when you switched alignment aid, so line, dot, naked, flange, top line, did that have any impact as well?
With that San Diego State player? No, not a thing. So I tried him in a he plays in Vegas. He's played at Las Vegas forever. So, I tried him with a Vegas H7 or flow neck, like 35 degrees of toe hang. Tried him with a Vegas H1, about 20 degrees of toe hang, and I tried him with a Vegas double bend, so face balanced, and he was two degrees left every time. And I took a picture of the data because I and I sent it to my brother Joe, who I don't know if you know Joe, Dan, but he's the director of global tour for Callaway. He was the Odyssey tour rep for a decade before that. So, he works with the very best in the world on Quintic, and he's world class. He taught me how to use Quintic. So, I texted him a picture of this data. I said, hey, what am I doing wrong? No matter what neck I put in this guy's hands, he's missing it too left. Like, what did I miss? Where should I have gone? Where would you have gone? And he got back to me right away. He said, no, dude, that's just a good putter. He does the same thing every single time, no matter what you put in his hands. And so it kind of reframes you from what the definition of a good putter is because like on its surface you wouldn't expect someone missing two degrees left is a good putter. But if he's able to do that every single freaking time that's Jon Rahm aiming in the left rough and swinging as hard as he can and it fades 15 yards in the middle of the fairway, right? That's just all that is. It's just doing it over and over and over again. And that's not how it always works. There are people who respond well to different offsets. You know, some people can really line up an H1 plumber's neck really, really well. Some people aim it left. You know, some people when they have a plumber's neck down, the line angle changes like the toe will go up in the air. And if the toe goes up in the air, you're going to miss it left, you know. And then some people when you put down a putter that's 5/8 shaft offset or a half shaft offset, all of a sudden they aim it perfectly. And if you could find a putter that they aim perfectly, you're so far ahead of the curve. Like now you can get into the fun stuff. Like, hey, let's fix your forward roll. Let's fix your launch. But sort of none of that matters if you're off the planet from a face angle perspective.
Hey Dan, when I was those years at Odyssey, one of the guys that we had on our team was Phil Kenyon and we were working on a tablet which we called Odyssey Fitz where we had all this electronic inputs and it would measure everything throughout the stroke and at impact and all of that, right? And what I told Phil what I wanted was can we build this sort of decision tree that as you go through if A or B happens you know go here if A or B happens there go here and you know sort of building this path to Pooh's house if you will and at the end it would say okay this is your putter. He said yeah we could definitely yes we can do that but I'm not going to put my name on it as anything associated with. And I said, well, why? Because every one of these rules is right 51% of the time. And it's exactly what Preston was saying. Once you put a piece of equipment in a golfer's hands, it's how do they react to a given piece of input, right? And it's different with everybody. So, fitting Preston, you would I'm well, we've talked about it, so I know your answer. When we get somebody in here and they leave after spending an hour or two with Preston, they are dramatically better putters from that day forward as long as they do what we talked about. They have a better putter. They have a better understanding of their technique. And we don't give them a ton of data because if we gave them a tenth of the data we collect, they'd be committed somewhere. So, we give them what they need, but they're immediately two or three shots better. And I say to people all the time, if you got fitted for a new driver and we found you seven yards, you'd be happy, right? What do you think your handicap would go down? I can tell you it wouldn't. But if you get fitted and we dial you in for a putter, you're gonna find two or three shots. I don't care how good you are, you're going to find a measurable difference right now. And you'll be able to do it because it's not, you know, the club isn't moving at 115 miles an hour. I mean, all of these things are very small, but we can get it dialed in so it's repeatable and your performance is going to improve right now. It's pretty cool.
It seems to be a lot more time to make a decision in a putting stroke than in a driver's swing, for example. A lot of reconsideration.
Well, let's get back on the train. You had just started talking about Houston, Preston.
Yeah. So it's funny when we're in this studio working with golfers, it feels like a weird question to start off a fit with, but one of my first questions always is, is there any putter in this room that you hate the look of? Because there's nothing worse than when you work with someone and my god, you dial it in and the numbers are fantastic and then at the very end they just say, I just don't like how it looks. There's nothing worse than that. That's happened on quite a few occasions. The first head that's removed from consideration most often is Houston. Because we make pretty putters and some will find Houston pretty. I'll tell you I didn't initially. But it is something that really remarkably grew on me. But with Houston, I can't tell you how many times people have removed it from consideration before we even start the fit, right? Just don't like how it looks. Fine, no problem. We can lock in and that's great. Actually, we'll lock you into something else, right? And then we'll hit some putts. We'll hit some putts. We'll hit some putts. I said, just humor me and just try this, right? Like, because I know it looks weird. I know it looks funky. I know you hate how it looks, but I bet you'll have more fun averaging 28 putts than 31 putts, right? Like I bet you'll have more fun and I bet you'll get over how it looks if you do that, right? And every single freaking time, Dan, I'm not saying like 75% of the time. I'm not saying 80% of the time. I'm saying every single freaking time. It beats the hell out of anything else. Like it is so unbelievably square. Those rails on the top and bottom, they're screaming at you, don't move me. Don't arc me. And you can see when you're doing it right. And more importantly, you can see when you're not doing it right. Because when you start arcing it, when that top rail starts moving down and that long center line starts moving down, you know right away, okay, I'm not using this the way it should be used. So that's why I say Houston is the what I think about the way I think about it is it's performance through geometry. It's if you can make a putter head whose shape is just so remarkably square and visually communicating to the golfer what your stroke path should be, it should reduce your rotation. And if you reduce rotation, it should more often than not help create more center-face strikes. If you create more center face strikes, you more often than not hit your start line. And when you hit your start line, as long as you're aiming okay, you usually make more putts. So, Houston is a putter that if people will just give it a chance, if they can get past its appearance, they'll be freaking thrilled. They'll be glad they did. I promise.
I want to let you jump in there, Sean, because I know you have something for this.
Yeah. So, it's something that I learned a long time ago. You know way back and people won't even probably remember Zeal Golf but I worked with a bunch of really really smart people. This was in the early 90s and it was a company that I founded that was all about custom fitting way before custom fitting was really a thing. And I remember we'd go out and we'd work with players and they'd be hitting their pick a brand, their six iron, and it would be going like 40 or 50 or 60 feet right of their target. And we would work with them and then we would measure and blah blah blah. And we would find out that their lie angle would be off by three degrees. It would be three degrees too flat for them. So the ball would start out, you know, if they made a good golf swing, it would start out like 16 17 yards to the right with a six or seven iron. So, you start to watch then these guys is you would just kind of just observe and then we'd pick a target and they'd go ahead and they'd set up and they would set up 20 yards left of the green and if they hit a good shot in their mind, they would hit one right at the flag stick, right? But the reason why they were doing that is because the club was so far toe-weighted down and then if you measured where it's actually aiming at impact it's so far to the right. Golfers aren't going to hit every shot to the right. So they start to do exactly what you said Preston. Subconsciously they start to aim left, right? So they're fixing a problem with another problem. So the moral of the story is exactly what we lead into with Houston. And it was sort of the genesis for the concept to begin with. Can the golf club help to create the swing or the whole process? And the answer is an absolute 100% yes. And the thing that's really interesting that I've learned over the years is you can do that in a positive way or a negative way. In other words, if I gave you, let's go back. Let's say I gave you John Daly's driver, Dan, and I said, I want you to hit a high push draw with this. His driver's got about six degrees of loft. It's about four degrees open. It's got basically a piece of rebar for a shaft. It's got a grip that's about five sizes bigger than what you normally play with. And I'm asking you to hit a high draw, right? What are you gonna do? You're going to aim to the right. You're probably going to move your back foot way back. You're going to get your grip like this and you're gonna flip the heck out of it, right? You're going to do whatever you can. The golf club creates the swing. And the same thing with this putter is if we take it and now we believe that the best way to use a zero torque putter is to reduce arc, is to reduce rotation. If we gave you a shape that was anti-rotational, would you reduce your arc and your rotation? And Preston can speak to it more than I. But the numbers come down dramatically and the performance goes up dramatically. So, does the golf club create the swing? A hundred times out of a hundred, yes.
It's an interesting visual. I'll say that much. You guys obviously had a fair bit of fun with the release and you know there have been plenty of opportunity to showcase a lot of really stunning heads that come out of your office there. What I like about it is the reasoning behind it and I think it's super curious. But Sean, you'd said something when we had chatted the other day talking about how we all see things differently and the preferences to lines really matter for a lot of people and visually we resolve things that we look at differently depending on how we are as people. That super sharp line seems to be something you would probably navigate away from whereas other people quite like it. And your point of reference to if and Preston you mentioned it the ability to see it fall offline it's so visually insulting that you don't want to do it so therefore you don't do it. So the question is sort of a handful considering who I have on the call today but why not make every putter super square to where people understand if you go offline this is a problem. I assume that's stroke related, right?
Yeah. And so here's the thing. Some golfers are very very very very good with rotation. So when I work on Quintic with people that come into our studio, what they tell you is like the amount of degrees per second of rotation that's the easiest to control or the most easy to create consistency would be anything like under 40 degrees. If you're under 40 degrees, that's great. But if you're under 40, if you're like 38 and then the next one you're 17 and then the next one you're 29 and then the next one you're four, that sucks, you know, that's a whole you're hitting at different directions, right? So I have people come in constantly who are rotating at 65 degrees per second, right? And that's above what Quintic would recommend you can do, right? But they're 65, they're 61, they're 59, they're 63, they're 62 putt to putt to putt to putt to putt, which means they're doing the same thing every single time. And that's the purpose of putting is what putter can you put in your hands that allows you to do the same thing every single time. And some people who especially some who grew up using putters that love to open and close, if they got a Houston in their hands, it's probably not the right putter for them because they do need rotation. Because if you grew up with something and your rate of rotation, your degrees per second closure is 90 degrees per second, you're going to hit Houston left. Like you shouldn't use Houston. But that's why there's a bunch of different putters and that's why we're not going to make everything super square for the rest of our company's history. And it's because golfers are different and the ability of golfers to deliver clubs in different ways is dramatically different.
Preston, talk a little bit now I feel like I'm you. Dan, talk a little bit about the way you think versus the way I think and but be nice to me, would you?
That'd be disingenuous. So we'll just do our best to get through this. But yeah, nice to be with you on your show, Sean. So my dad and I despite us I sort of Dan every time I get on Zoom calls with my dad I just see myself gradually the physical appearance I see it gradually becoming the same person and it's just kind of disheartening. So, the more I do this though, I work closely with my dad every day and it's been like two and a half years now. I was the last Toulon to work here. But I didn't know growing up how dramatically different we were as people, and I really really know that now. I think it's in complimentary ways. My dad is a creative, he's artistic, he's incredibly optimistic and just positive and energetic. Tons of very very good qualities, but he's look I should hold on to that creativity. So he's very creative. He sort of starts a lot of projects and doesn't finish a lot of projects. We kind of call him a hummingbird. He's kind of project to project to project, right? And then with me, the way I see the world is
I'm structured, organized, and process-oriented. There's a sequence to me in which things need to work to get done. I would call myself a much more pragmatic person. I'd stop shy of saying pessimistic. My dad might disagree with me on occasion, but I think you need one of each of us to balance, because if it were up to him or if it were up to me, we'd probably be in dramatically bad places.
So with Houston, I as a process-oriented person who seeks and craves structure and a sequence in order to do things, I see these sharp lines and I see the angles and I see how they work. And then I also understand the theory of the putter and what it does to my brain, like the six inches between your ears. It actually somewhat calms me when I look down at it and it makes sense to me.
And if you're someone who kind of rebels against rigidity like my dad might, you know, he doesn't want to, he resists being placed in a box, which has been very good for him over his career. If he looked down at something that was ultra boxy, he might feel trapped. He might feel confined. And this isn't completely about the metaphysical. It is just about getting putts in the hole. So this isn't like a commentary on anything, but I do think people's genetic and cranial makeup impacts the putters that stand out to them, and I do think it impacts the performance of the putter in their hands.
And that's something where I don't do a ton of product development here at the company. That's not sort of my role here. But I'm increasingly curious about, hey, what do the way people think and the way people are psychologically wired, what does that do to the shape? And I'm curious about what that could possibly be if we were to kind of explore that more deeply in the future.
So, it was actually something that I was paying more attention to after focusing in on the Houston a little bit is there are sharp lines in a lot of your putters. But at the same time, even the more straight lines have a surprising amount of roll or curl into the front of the head. So, you know, I look at the more traditional blade shape, it runs pretty much straight from the back to the front. And then you start to look at some of your larger heads. Even Alcatraz has this nice rolled shape at the top that I paid almost no attention to. And Monaco has a sharp line that goes up before bending back. None of it comes straight from the front of the putter head, but then suddenly with Houston, it does. It goes straight to the edge and then goes all the way back. That was something I hadn't paid a lot of attention to, and I assume there's a very good reason for that styling in the product.
Well, you're the product designer.
So, yes. Let me go back to what Preston was saying about Houston. So, Houston is very linear. And we did that for the reasons that we've talked about. And I think some golfers really do respond well to that. It's your earlier questions on lines or dots. And I went off on my little Phil Kenyon story. Lines or dots. You know, if you aim left, you need a dot. Maybe if you aim right, you need that. Maybe. The answer to all this stuff is maybe. But when you start to see things as rigid as a box versus... So, let's take that and maybe move to a blade. So, if you look at the two most popular blades, a Ping Anser and an Anser 2, right? Or a Newport and a Newport Tour in Austin and a San Diego or a Hollywood. It's sort of the same thing, right? One is very organic looking and flowy and I'm drawn to that. And if you ask Preston, if you were going to putt with a blade, he would putt with a Hollywood or a Santa Monica or a San Diego, something very, you know, much more tailored in look, right? So it's just those things just are going to look and feel and appeal to different people.
I think with milled putters, Dan, it's very simple to machine something and leave edges and sharp and leave geometry sharp. You know why? Because it spends less time on a machine. And machine time is a direct, that's how you really determine how expensive a putter is going to be to manufacture. We don't settle there. We want to make sure that everything you would look and see and touch and feel is wonderful to your hand, right? And wonderful to your eye. So a lot of that is just, it really stems from there. We like to say that we care about every single positively obsessed, if you will, little blend and radius and chamfer and all of that. And usually that means you have to go this way as it comes back to the face. Or if you look at the way Alcatraz would sort of fall off from the top line into the back, that just takes time and energy and effort and resources and money there. It's more expensive to do.
We only focus on two things. I know I'm just, I guess I am the, what did you call me? A butterfly.
Yeah. The question with Dan was going to get there. If you think about the shapes of the putter, are they designed to meet different people's kind of psychological profiles? And I'll say when you do that, you have to be thoughtful of so many different components when you put together an entire product line and that's certainly a thing. You know, there are people that gravitate towards organization. There are people who thrive in chaos, right? And two of those people are on this call. I don't know you that well, Dan, but I'm guessing you probably lean a little bit more towards me. So my hands are clean in this.
He's a dot guy. He's on my team.
Okay. Well, I'll steer it a little bit since we're having fun. And I have, as I'm looking at Houston in my brain, I'm thinking like at what point did they land on those particular angles running from the front to the back of the putter? And in my head, I think about, you know, at what point do we start designing putters that have flaps on them where you can tighten and loose and then move them in and out and, you know, let people customize the way they want without having a super negative impact on the overall construction of the putter and the real intentions of having those lines go in certain directions. So, I don't think unless I'm getting a visual trick being played on me, it's not a perfect square, right? It runs at a little bit of an angle from front to back on the Houston.
Well, we cheated a little bit. It actually is a perfect square.
It is. But when we, before we played this visual trick, when you do a perfect square, it actually looks like it's splayed, like the rear is wider than it, right? Which was weird. So, what we did then is if you look inside each of the bars, we actually have it machined to come in a little bit, which your eye sort of sees that and it takes the sort of optical illusion from being like this back to what we wanted. That we didn't accomplish in prototype one, that took some time to get right.
So, at what point did you mess with it and say like, can we bring those angles in to be a little bit less boxy or was it always intentional to be that square visually with this head?
Yeah, we committed early to, we think zero torque is really good for more golfers than it's not. They need to commit most to sort of relearning a little bit of their putting stroke, which our studio will tell you that's probably a good idea. Not everybody can do it. Not everybody wants to do it, which is why people buy these things and then return them, right? But if you can commit to doing that, it's a better way to putt. And we believe the best way to do that is to give you immediate visual assurance or reassurance that what you're doing is correct or more importantly to Preston's point, what you're doing is incorrect. So it really can help and it has helped and to Preston's point, it doesn't help a few, it helps everybody a lot. That's pretty cool.
Well, let's go back to prototyping because I know that's the chaos part, right? That's when everyone's butting heads a little bit, seeing what works. Landing on a visual that makes sense for everyone as well. Understanding that there are different types of people out there. There's a lot of exposure to the ground between the two ends of the Houston. How much did that change during prototyping? How much of that did you want to cover with material versus keeping it open for people to see it?
