No matter what color you are, what country you come from, that is tight. What language you speak, we're all human beings. Fighting's in our DNA. We get it and we like it. We're about to do a fight on the south lawn of the White House. A little bit of fear, a little bit of adrenaline. These guys that are on the main card will slap your head right off your shoulders. I'm telling you. And when they slap, it sounds like a gunshot. Power slap is the most successful thing I've ever been a part of in such a short amount of time. I don't give a what you've done. Show me right now, right here, who you are and what you got. When people were telling me you'll never beat boxing, who the is he? To think that he's going to come in and change a sport that's over 100 years old. And here we are today. It does a billion views a month. There's nothing else in the world that makes you feel that way. Where do you go after the sphere and the moon? The moon. What will success ultimately look like at the White House?
What's up everybody and welcome to a special episode of Boardroom. We are in my office today on a Thursday in New York City and I'm honored to be sitting down with a generational, absolutely one-of-one entrepreneur, Dana White. Dana, welcome to Boardroom.
It feels like there are these people in society that are just necessary. They disrupt. You've never seen anything like it before and you probably will never see anything like it again. And I feel like you probably don't focus on that in any way, shape, or form. You're head down. But at this point in your life and career, have you ever stopped to just be like, 'Holy, like I really have built this massive company and a massive reputation for myself and changed sports.'
People ask me that all the time. I'm not one of those... unfortunately, actually, you know, it's like the White House fight coming up. I was just there not yesterday but the day before. We're actually going to start, we're coming up on a month away and we're going to start building the structure that's going to be the lighting grid there which we call the claw. And I'm never one of those, 'Wow, look at this and look at that.' I just want this one to be over. Yeah. Because what's next? And I'm always thinking what's next instead of looking around and I don't know, you know, I just don't do it.
Do you still have like a founder fear going into something like that? Like is that anxiety of like this may not happen or this could not be pulled off the way we envision this?
No, never. I know exactly what we're gonna do. Yeah. I am so confident in my team and what we do and we are the absolute best at doing it. I never have any of that type of feel. Like my head of production is as OCD as anybody that I've ever met in my life. And those are the kind of maniacs that you need running something like this. He is completely OCD, I mean, his desk all the time and he's just, he's a killer, man. I have literally an office full of killers. I really do. My whole production staff and my PR girl that's out here is a killer. I mean, just, yeah.
Do you think that you attract those people at this point?
Now, when you're wired the way I am, you need to be surrounded with people that are wired like that and it's crazy because I have 500 employees and I would say a majority of my team are like that.
Yeah. You know, I asked a friend of yours this morning about you a little bit and then I was looking you up. I mean, obviously I know of you so well, but I wanted to just see if I could pick something up and there was this word that kept coming up in conversation and online, which was loyalty. And it feels like it's one of those things where, you know, people don't necessarily call themselves loyal, right? You need to be called that by someone else. You actually probably have to have a legitimate body of work of being a loyal person to be called that. And then I think about like the fight at the White House and your history with President Trump is what people misunderstand sometimes that the root of this relationship is a friendship and about loyalty. And obviously it's politicized, but it feels like when I saw that word come up over and over again, know your guys' history, that that's what that is at the core.
It's so true. Like, because I'm in New York, I did the New Yorker radio yesterday and I, you know, CNN and, you know, they just come at me, you know, political, political, political. What about what's going on? I listen, he's the president of the United States. When he and I became friends, I never dreamed that that guy would become the president of the United States. That was never even a thought in my mind. And think about this. When the UFC, when we first bought it, to wrap your head around this because it's hard for people to now because of the success of the UFC. It wasn't allowed on pay-per-view. You as a grown adult didn't have the option to buy it. Porn was on pay-per-view. UFC was not allowed. So you can imagine the venues around the country, the stigma that was attached to the UFC, their thought process was what kind of people will show up to our arena to watch this disgusting, you know, that was the way it was looked at. So when President Trump had us come to the Taj Mahal in Atlantic City for our first event and second event after we bought the company, he showed up from the first fight of the night and stayed till the last and cut us a great deal. You know, obviously love the sport. Trump brand here, UFC brand, you know, and Taj Mahal was the spot. Yeah, absolutely right. And every good thing that ever happened to me in my career from there on out, always the first guy to reach out and say, 'Congratulations. I always knew you'd do it. Send me something in the mail.' You know, and we created a friendship. We became friends. And then when he decided to run, and this is what he said when he called me, and this is the type person he is. He's like, 'If you don't want to do this, I completely understand, but I would be honored if you would speak at the Republican convention.'
So cognizant of what that could mean for you.
Now, when you talk about politically now, back then, I didn't even know who the hell the governor of the state was. You know what I mean? I wasn't into politics and I'm still really not to be honest with you.
I feel like nobody really knew anything prior to COVID the way they do now. The common person.
So true. People are so political now. Nobody was when, and especially these young kids. I mean, think about yourself when you were in your 20s.
You know, it's funny. I swear to you, this sounds messed up, but I didn't even fully understand the magnitude of 9/11 at the time. And I lived here and was impacted by it, but understanding the total like world diplomatic impact and how that was political. Didn't think anything about it.
So true. And what a different world it was then, but before the 9/11, I remember I was driving to work that day and we had a guy that worked on the east coast. He worked in Jersey for us and I was on the phone with him and he was, you know, he's like, 'A plane hit the World Trade Center.' And we were like, 'Holy, you're talking about why we're on the phone.' He goes, 'Another plane just hit the World Trade Center.' And you know, I said, 'What the is going on with air traffic control?' Same.
You would never think that it was an attack and that it was a, you know, it just all of that stuff changed the world in so many different ways.
And you know, it's funny when I read about you too, I realized you were a manager of talent earlier in your career. I was as well. And I feel like that's like a tiny bit of a cheat code for a founder because managing talent takes a level of almost like selflessness and it's not the most thankful job.
That's the truth, right? You understand how to put out fires and navigate issues. And I even think it's why some agents have become good front office people in the NBA. I think that all of these positions in sports and entertainment, if you can't connect with talent and understand talent and manage talent, you're not going to be able to reach the success you need. Do you think those like skill sets that you kind of honed a bit as a manager have helped you?
100%. And one of the crazy things about being a manager. When you were asking me earlier about fear in running your business, first of all, it teaches you how to deal with people. Having people's lives in your hands like every day when you're the leader of a company, you know, a lot of people depend on you for paychecks and to do all these things. And I remember when I would get into some of these negotiations in the old days, you want to make sure that you push far enough to get them everything that you can get them, but you don't want to push too far and break the relationship. And you know, it's a very... it's, there's a balance there that you have to have. And if it wasn't for being in the representing talent business, would have never bought the UFC. I mean, I was in a contract battle with the old owner, Bob Meyrowitz. And one day he's like, 'You know what? There is no more money, okay? I'll be lucky if I can even put on one another event.' And we hung up the phone and I said, 'Holy, UFC is going out of business.' I called my partners, the Fertitta Brothers, and said, 'I just got off the phone with Bob Meyrowitz. UFC's going bankrupt. We should try to buy it.' And literally 2 months later, we own the UFC.
That's insane. So, had you not been in that position, this would have never happened. Did you understand the magnitude? Maybe not to this degree, but you saw how big this could get. It wasn't just like this is a garage sale of a brand, right?
You never see, I mean, we're about to do a fight on the south lawn of the White House and 85,000 people will be at the Ellipse and you don't see that and all the other things. But if you look at interviews from with me from 2001 to 2005, I'm saying this is going to be the biggest sport in the world. This is going to work everywhere. I always believed in this because I've always believed in fighting. I believe that no matter what color you are, what country you come from, or what language you speak, we're all human beings. Fighting's in our DNA. We get it and we like it. If a fight broke out right here, right now, we'd rip this door open and we'd all sit here and watch it. And it's just even if you claim you don't like fighting, you can't not feel that. And there's a certain energy that you feel, a little bit of fear, a little bit of adrenaline, a little bit of when something like that breaks out. One or the other, but you're looking. It's true. And there's nothing else in the world that makes you feel that way like when a fight breaks out.
Yeah, I would love a fight to break out in here. Be hilarious. Back to the White House one second. Who made the first call? Was that your idea? Was that President Trump's?
I can't remember if we were in New Jersey or Miami, but we're sitting at a fight and he leans over me and goes, 'You know what? We should do a fight at the White House.' And I said, 'Yes, yes, we should do a fight at the White House.' And he's the type of person if it comes out of his mouth, it's happening. And literally, that was a Saturday night, Monday, the White House was calling saying, 'Let's start figuring out logistics for the White House.'
And have the logistics been complicated?
Incredibly complicated. This will be, so before this, the sphere in Las Vegas was the most complicated thing that we've pulled off. This makes the sphere look like, you know, and after the sphere, I was like, where do you go after the sphere? And now we're at the White House and, you know, where do we go from here? Like the moon. Exactly. We'd have to put on a fight on the moon.
The moon. Definitely doable in the next 10 years. You'd have to be training fighters now that also are like built to go to space. That would be, if you want, I'll break that division off for you. That would be fun as hell.
Yeah, that would be interesting.
Artemis 3 UFC fight. That'd be insane. June 14th, security a major issue. Something that's been like a bit of a headwind.
Yeah. So, you know, it's always been a huge piece of this puzzle that we've been putting together and then now it went to another level after the, you know, what happened at the correspondence dinner.
Yeah. What an amazing quote. By the way, true to your point about if a fight broke out, I'm running out there. I saw you say, 'I stood up and watched everything.'
It was awesome. It was like surreal. So, we sit down and I got Pete Hegseth sitting next to me having a fascinating conversation with this guy. Yeah. And they have the dais up here. My table is right in front. They bring the dais out and the woman that runs the media, the correspondence media, she gets up and she says, 'Thank you for coming, Mr. President, Mr. Vice President, all the members of the media. We're going to eat and then we're going to start the show.' Right? So, they got salads in front of us. And all of a sudden, man, you just hear plates breaking and glasses. You just hear all this commotion. Like when a fight breaks out, you turn around, there's 50 Secret Service guys with guns out and they're screaming, 'Get on the ground now.' And I'm like, 'Holy shit.' And we don't know what's going on. You know, there's a threat. They get the president and the vice president out of there. They clear the dais. Now the dais is full with guns, guys with guns like this with the lights on the end of them pointed at us out into the crowd. And I'm just like, 'Holy, everybody's on the ground.' Hegseth did not go on the ground either. And then literally these guys are moving so fast through this thing and they're coming toward our table. And I'm like, is the guy over here or is there a bomb over here or whatever. And it was just... Now think about the greatest movie you've ever seen like that. You were in it times a million. Okay. My adrenaline was through the roof for 4 hours after that. I flew back to Vegas. I was bouncing off the walls in the plane and but to be able to be involved in something like that and nobody gets hurt, but you get to experience...
Well, that's the point is if somebody got hurt, you couldn't even tell the story.
But also, I might have a much different feeling about it, too. Bullets started flying around the place. But to be honest, like I don't know if this like came across your mind at all, but like of all the people in there, it's like the president, you are in that like few handful of people who are the most recognizable, most famous in that room. And you know, you didn't think for a second like holy like this is like I'm in it. You'd only thought I'm in it. I'm watching this.
Yeah. I'm like, I'm not missing one. Well, we don't even know. I don't know. There's a bomb. Is there a shooter? Is there what's something is obviously in here that they just came out and snatched the president up and ripped him off the, I mean they ripped him out of there and like something bad is going on in this room right now. So but and nobody knew and think about this like this was the correspondence dinner and you had like the who's who from the government, the who's who from business and the who's who from media and which is a lot of women. Yeah. And you know how you'll be watching like YouTube or Instagram or something and bad turbulence on a plane, you hear all these women screaming. There wasn't a peep out of any of these women. Not one woman screamed. Everybody got down, did their thing, and then once they cleared the room and they said everything's good and got up, like a lot of these women reporters were gangster with this thing and we all just sort of started getting together and talking and it was a very unique, cool experience.
So, what will success ultimately look like at the White House? How many people will be there? You said...
So there will be 4,000 people on the south lawn. The president has 1,000 tickets. I have 200 tickets and Rahm Emanuel has 200 tickets and most of the people on the south lawn will be military. So every branch of the military will be represented for America's 250th. And then if this is the south lawn, right over here is the Ellipse and there's a road that goes through here. This is a huge park. There'll be 85,000 people on the Ellipse. Over 300,000 people have applied for tickets. Insane. And it's gonna be on Paramount. Yeah. So, so success will be this. Obviously, the thing gets pulled off. Yeah. You know, as far as production goes, with close to no hitches, you know, we have to worry about the weather, right? How cold is it? Is it too hot? Is it too muggy? Does it rain? The only thing that can really crush us is lightning. Yeah. You know, everybody, you all have kids that have played soccer, whatever. As soon as lightning hits, shut it down. It's a wrap. Everybody's got to go hide and then you can't go. So, if lightning happens that night, we'll wait out the lightning until it goes away and we'll do the show a little bit later or however that plays out. Hopefully, none of that happens. The other problem that I always think about, especially on the East Coast, bugs. Yeah. So, President Trump just opened the Rose Garden two nights ago and he invited me to dinner there. Yeah. The amount of gnats that were flying around. I'm like, 'Holy.' As soon as I got on the plane, I called my head of production and said, 'Yeah, let me tell you about the gnat situation tonight.' So, when you're a fighter, think about that lighting grid, the claw that we're going to have, the amount of power in the lights, moths, gnats, and god knows what else. Fighters trying to deal with that. So, you remember Joba Chamberlain? Remember the Yankee game where the pitcher was pitching, came in for like the save and the gnats were flying all over his face and his eyes and he threw the game. You got to see the footage of it. These are all the things I think about. And I never knew that. No, but yeah, in your mouth and your nose while you're trying to fight. So, I was telling Craig, my head of production, I was like, maybe we put fans in that can, you know, because gnats have a hard time in the wind. Yeah. I don't know, man. These are all the little details that we have to think about. That's why I don't like fighting outside. Yeah. Ever.
You mentioned Ari. Why is that partnership with Ari Emanuel so well?
So, when you think about when I was talking about my team of killers and like-minded people that I have, you know, those two are killers. I mean, they are such a valuable piece to this whole puzzle. And not just, you know, when you think about UFC, but TKO as a group and what Ari has built, you know, this public company with wrestling, UFC, boxing, PBR, and you know, and right now if you look at sports and these streaming, have you watched Landman? It's incredible. I don't watch TV a lot and I don't watch a lot of movies. I think Landman's the best TV show that I've ever seen. And MobLand too is another one which are both on Paramount. And I was talking about these before we did deal with Paramount, just for the record. But when you think about a streaming service like Landman, if you haven't seen Landman people, I'm telling you, greatest show on TV. So you can watch Landman whenever you want to. You can watch the whole thing tonight or you can watch it 3 years from now. Sports is destination. You have to see sports live. So, I always knew the streaming services were eventually going to get into sports. But I mean, it's going to be the backbone of these streaming services.
Is pay-per-view dead, do you think, or...
I don't think pay-per-view will ever be dead if you have the right event. Yeah. Listen, if you have the right event that ends up on pay-per-view and it's one of those things that it's a must-see. Yeah. People will pay to see it. All right, Zuffa Boxing.
Yes. So, I interviewed Bud Crawford like two years ago and I started asking him some like intricate questions about promotion and managers and I knew a little bit growing up. I mean, I think growing up there was a bit more clarity, I thought, on like who the heavyweight champion was and who like the contenders were. Over time, it became so confusing that as like a bit of a casual consumer, I just checked out, right? I had like no understanding what was happening in boxing. I didn't get the belts anymore. I didn't get the different like federations. I didn't understand why when everyone knew two people should fight, they didn't fight. So I kind of just like moved on from boxing. Then when I was asking Bud about it, we had a really good conversation and it felt so, the more we spoke, the more confusing the whole structure became for me. Was that a bit of the genesis for you or did you see it as just like here is this one of the oldest if not the oldest sports in the world. I have mastered the blueprint and this is still broken in my eyes. Was that it?
I mean I couldn't have said it better myself. You're absolutely right and think about this now. If you look at the UFC, look at the rise of the UFC. In 25 years everybody told me you'll never be able to beat boxing. Boxing is the, you know, and here we are today. The UFC is simple, easy to follow. Yeah. Not as many weight classes, no sanctioning bodies making fights not happen. So yeah, brilliantly laid out and you're absolutely right. And everything in life is about timing and right here, right now was my time to get into this sport and take a crack at it because I've been talking about them for years and now it's time to put my money where my mouth is. So, how did it get so broken? Just like the corruption and... Corruption and here's what you can't do to any, think about this. Tell me a business that has generated trillions of dollars in revenue. Yet, at the end of the day, there's nothing there. And every fight that these guys put on is like a going out of business sale. Let's grab as much money as we can from everybody. And then every time you would turn off the TV, you're like, 'God damn it, they got me again.' Yeah, that sucked. And you know, so they'll come back a year later and you forget. You're like, 'Oh, this...' and they've just been doing it over and over and over again. My brand, my fans know that if the main event falls out or something, I'm going to replace it with something just as good or maybe even better sometimes. And that there's a lot of times we'll put tickets on sale and I don't even have the fights announced yet and then the fight will sell out. Yeah. Because I've created this trust with my fans that they know we're going to deliver when we come into your town. And you know, boxing used to do Atlantic City and Vegas because that's where all the money was. We moved this thing around everywhere. Every major city in the world we've taken it to.
It feels like the practical decision which a lot of times people don't go to when it's right there in front of you is how you've always operated like how clean and structured UFC is as well as all the other variables is part of the reason why I feel like you have so many fans like it is what it is. It's like two people in the ring. You number every fight in chronological order. Like nothing is confusing to the consumer. Nothing. I think there's more star power that could be developed in UFC in terms of like you are the biggest star in UFC and some of the other big stars are fighters of 20 years, right? Over 20 years. And clearly you see in the NBA more so than the NFL. I almost think the NFL has some comparison to you guys, right? In that like the Shield is what it is. Like the NFL could put a game on and tell you, we'll tell you the teams in a few weeks and you would buy tickets. The NBA that would never happen. They'd have to know what stars are coming in.
Well, we're all different, too. And that, you know, in my opinion, the NFL on television is just, you know, when the NFL season starts, man, everybody's ready, you know, and you stay home on Sunday and you watch games that you don't even give a about the teams and all this kind of stuff, right? But I go to the live, I don't love it. I don't love going to football live. I don't like the live experience as much as I do TV. The NBA brutal on television. All you got to do is watch the last five minutes of the game on the NBA. But live and if you're sitting in the right seats, I mean, it's an incredible experience. And these dudes are monsters and watching them dunk and running up and down. I love live basketball. Now, the UFC incredible product on television if you're home with your friends and family or you can go to a bar and it's incredible at the bar and the vibe and the energy at the bar and the live event. I think it's the best live event in all of sports. So, we're lucky in that we hit every one of those and it's super important to me. When I got into the business, boxing still and UFC then, they didn't give a about the live event. All they cared about was the TV and the pay-per-view and all this stuff. The people who come to the live event spend more money than the people who sit home and buy the pay-per-view. So, you have to give them, I have a full team that just focuses on the in-house live experience. And then you have the television team. Both are very important to me.
