In 2025, Uber had its best year ever. I expect every year to be our best year, right? If next year is not our best year, then I failed. At the center of that turnaround is Dara Khosrowshahi, the man who took over Uber as its CEO in 2017 amid the chaos that followed the ouster of Travis Kalanick.
I'm not looking to establish moats. It means I'm playing defense. I like playing offense. Our largest competitor in the end is a personal car.
We sat down with him during his 5-day India trip, and the timing couldn't be more telling. On Friday, Uber's closest challenger in India, mobility startup Rapido, announced a $240 million fund raise. India is Uber's third largest market by trip volume, and by Khosrowshahi's own admission, its toughest.
The Indian consumer is super demanding. The one word I would use to describe the Indian market is dynamic. If I look 10 years forward, I think India is going to be our largest market.
On today's episode, we ask Khosrowshahi about Uber's big India bets, its new data center partnership, a possible return to food delivery, and what AI and autonomous vehicles mean for millions of gig workers whose livelihoods depend on the platform.
India is the second largest talent base that we have other than the US.
Building out data centers on a local basis here, I think it's strategic. I think it's strategic to the country.
It's something that we're going to revisit.
We see autonomous vehicles, for example, has actually introduced new entrants to the transportation space, and human drivers on our platform are earning more.
And the question that nobody in Silicon Valley can quite stop asking, is there a partnership coming with the man Khosrowshahi replaced, Travis Kalanick?
Met the finance minister. What is it that you're looking at in terms of policy changes or your discussions with the policy makers this time around?
Well, I think one of the definitional reasons why so many people join Uber, including myself, is the impact that we're having on the greater society. On a global basis, we've got over 10 million earners on our platform. We now have in India over 2 million people earning on the platform. The last time I came here 2 years ago, it was a million, which is a big number, but the expansion here is pretty extraordinary. So, we want to be aligned with policy makers as far as how we grow. The goal of this company isn't just growth and profits, but it's to make sure that our impact on society continues to be constructive and positive. And those are the discussions that we're having with the ministers as far as how we grow.
What is it that they have to say to you?
Well, part of it is, for example, discussion on social security benefits now and the new policies here, which we're quite supportive of. If you look at historically in many countries, people look at full-time work with benefits and then they say part-time flexible work with no benefits. The solution that we're talking about, which is part-time flexible work with benefits including social security, is quite constructive. So, we were having some dialogue there and how we continue to do so in an environmentally friendly way as well. We very much support the shift towards electrification and EV, but at the same time we are humble and also realize the challenges therein. And that has been certainly a part of the discussions that we're having with ministers, even more so now with the challenges in terms of the cost of fuel now.
So, I'm just going to use that as a segue to understand from you, how do you look at fuel prices sort of going up? I mean, there was some announcement yesterday here as well. How does that impact the business not only in India, but globally? Because that's at the center of what you do.
Yes. It's very early here, obviously. Yesterday was I think the first announcement as it relates to fuel price increases. So, it's difficult to predict the impact on our business here. Globally, fuel prices have been a headwind, especially more recently as it relates to our earners and the cost of transportation, but they've been relatively modest. What we are seeing consistently is the demand for transportation of all types, food delivery, grocery, etc. continues at a very robust pace. We announced recently our Q1 earnings. Transactions growing over 20%, top line growing well over 20%. So, while it's a headwind, it is a relatively modest headwind compared to the increase in demand for all things in the physical world. So, the business continues to grow, but it is something that we take into consideration. We think it just underlies this transition to EVs as being healthy for the environment, but also healthy in terms of the diversification of energy sources for India and many other countries in which we operate.
Dara, what you said earlier about you wanting to sort of create more livelihood in India, expanding mobility in a more environment-friendly way. One of the ways we've seen mobility companies do that is bike taxis, two-wheelers. And just very recently there's been some sort of threat from the state government over taking criminal action against bike taxis. What message do you take from that?
Well, I think what we want to have is a dialogue with local authorities. There is no question to us that bike taxis are making transportation more affordable for a greater percentage of the population. Bike taxis are often a complement actually to mass transit. About a quarter of our bike taxi trips either start or end with mass transit of one sort or the other. And we're investing now in moving beyond just being a car hail service. Now we have four-wheelers, three-wheelers, bike-taxis, and through our partnership with All in DC, are connecting with buses and mass transit as well. So, we think that bike-taxis should be a part of this entire transit ecosystem. It's a much more affordable way for earners to come onto the platform and start earning. Some of them then graduate up to four-wheelers, either through our fleet partnerships, etc. So, we're hoping that we can find that win-win solution where the policy makers make sure that they get what they need in terms of following rules and regulations, but also we continue to expand the availability of affordable mobility as well as a way to earn for a greater segment of the population here.
Understood. Over the last few years, Uber has added a bunch of offerings. Now, of course, at the Go-Get event, you announced Uber being an everything app. In India, how does that trickle down beyond just mobility, or will you sort of stay razor-sharp focused on mobility in India?
The opportunity for mobility in India is enormous. So, we do want to stay focused on the mobility sector. That said, we are exploring other areas, for example, logistics. And in particular, what we're quite interested in is hyper-local logistics within your city and empowering, especially small businesses, to be able to deliver on-demand transportation, just like what you see in quick commerce and or the large companies like a Flip or Amazon. We want to empower the local businesses to also offer on-demand, very quick delivery as well of their goods, because we think that a commerce ecosystem that includes large companies, there's nothing wrong with that, but also small businesses is a healthy ecosystem and we are very early in our investments in commerce, but we think it's a very interesting area for us to explore.
I just wanted to double click on that. Data we spoke last time around as well. Uber Eats for you in the US is as much as 50% of your revenue now. There's a lot of huge and I remember asking you last time as well, is food something that you will look to do again in India considering you want to be in the delivery ecosystem and food and grocery has become a large part whether you look at Amazon, Flipkart. Amazon's now doing quick commerce in the US taking a leaf out of what they're doing here in India. So, is that something that you will revisit at all?
You know, I believe in continually asking myself hard strategic questions. At this point when we look at the ecosystem in India, the mobility ecosystem and the local logistics sector is quite promising and has enormous potential growth ahead of it. It's something that we're going to revisit. In Europe for example, we have relaunched in food in a number of markets that we pulled out of. And there's so much potential here in India, but at this point I think to the extent we get into food, it'll be through partnership, not through ownership.
Is it something on the anvil? Can we look forward to some announcement?
You seem to be very focused on partnerships as a company and I just want you to talk a bit more about the Adani partnership on the data center. Is that the stack which will play out in India on the AI space and how do you see it sort of unfolding here?
Well, I think that AI generally is going to be empowering a greater and greater percentage of the information economy. Building out data centers on a local basis here, I think it's strategic. I think it's strategic to the country. And India is quite strategic to us on a global basis and I can't think of anyone better to partner with than the Adanis. I have known them for some time now. We have built a lot of trust together and building out a local data center here to power the entire business, but also the AI innovations that are coming up is something that I'm very excited about and I'm thrilled to do it with the Adani Group.
And what's the kind of timeline that you've set for putting this together?
Well, based on the discussions that we had with them, we all want it to happen tomorrow. We know that may not be possible. So, the timelines aren't clear here, but the intent certainly is.
And just talk me through the two tech centers also you've announced between Bangalore and Hyderabad. How much of Uber's engineering and product etc. are already being done out of India and with these two being set up, where will it sort of take it?
Well, India is the second largest talent base that we have other than the US. We always believed in the entrepreneurial talent here. And so, our approach here in India was always building engineering teams that are what we call full stack, that are entirely responsible for the products that they're building, so they don't have to check with the US etc. They can just go. One of the changes that we're seeing here is, frankly early on we were able to attract top engineers. We had a hard time for example, attracting product managers, first-rate designers. That's all changed. The product innovation that we're seeing here is core to the business. Like, they are building every part of Uber, whether it's the rider app or two-wheelers or merchant tools or actually the AI stack, the core AI stack. And so, the investment in the tech centers are a reflection of that. I wouldn't be surprised if we add even more tech centers. This is just the beginning here. The talent, the technical talent, and the entrepreneurship, and the hunger that I see here is wonderful, and I want more of it.
How does that tie up with the fact that your CTO very recently said you had exhausted all your tokens in 4 months of the year?
Our engineers are working. They're working hard, and they're building agents to work for them as well.
Where do you get the confidence to hire more engineers and set up these tech centers when at a time when almost 60% of the code is being done by AI?
Yeah, so my view is that AI is building engineers with superpowers. And if the next engineer that I hire is one that has superpowers, I want more. The business is growing very quickly. It's growing even more quickly here in India. So, at this point, I see growth ahead of us both in terms of business and talent. Right now, I want to build, then I want to build faster.
There are just to add to the earlier question on how do you see the whole AI ecosystem build out play in India? Do you essentially think that India will become more of a back end what it was in the software era as well? You've done these tech centers. You're also very big on data labeling from India and all of that sort of rolls up into India being that back end center. Is there more to it that you see?
Well, I think that there are all kinds of technologies, both hardware and software, that are needed to power AI. Most people look at us as a transportation company, but one way that I look at Uber is we are a platform for work. And just the first type of work that we empowered had to do with the transportation sector, but now with AI, there's all kinds of other needs in terms of labeling both for digital tasks, but also physical tasks. And so, why not involve our workforce in India on that? But that said, I think that what we are building and what our talent is building is far more than the back-end. And again, I think India is going to play a huge part in our innovation for the next 10 years.
You mentioned India now has 2 million workers globally that 10 million plus. What does it mean for the jobs? And also, as Uber sort of moves more and more towards autonomous vehicles, how does that impact this worker base? There's a lot of drama around and questions around machines replacing humans, so to speak, human labor.
But if you look historically, we have seen machines augment human labor, which has led to very significant productivity gains. We see autonomous vehicles, for example, where we've introduced them in the US at small scale, admittedly, has actually introduced new entrants to the transportation space, more consumers coming in, and human drivers on our platform are earning more. So, I'm hoping that that pattern continues going forward, but there are these questions that all of us are asking. Will it go from augmentation to replacements? We want to be a part of that transition in a responsible way as the game-changing technologies like AI.
Just want to come back to how partnerships have become really key for Uber. If you look at autonomous vehicles, you had a business there which you sold off. And now you're a marketplace for Waymo and Zoox and others in the US. Is that a regret again, Dara, or is that something that you would continue to do wherein you will just aggregate these robotaxis?
