Principles Over Politics: Chase Koch and Demario Davis on Building What Lasts

Hey, hey, John Hope Bryant here. This is the Money and Wealth podcast series on iHeart Radio on Black Effect Network, season 3. This is a very special podcast that you're about to witness. It's one of the few live podcasts that I have ever done. And as you know, again, when I bring on a guest, they're always special. This ended up different than I thought it was. This interview with Chase Koch, who is the heir apparent of one of the wealthiest private companies, most successful in the world. I think it's grown 9,000 times since its founding in the 1960s. It's one of the biggest private companies in the world. They have 8,000 employees just in Georgia alone, 120,000 plus employees around the world. And not to tell their business, but I think his father's worth about $70 billion. So, you think that Chase might be a jerk, you know, because it's hard not to be for some people. It's hard for him to be. He's a really decent, good guy. And I was prepared actually not to like several years ago based on some of the things I'd heard and seen a few years ago, the political dynamics, and to see them self-correct and come into what I call the middle of America on their own says a lot to me about their true character and that I just gained a lot of respect. And so this meeting that we had both behind closed doors, in the green room, conversations leading up to it, and the podcast that was recorded live with no editing. I mean what you see is what you get. I mean it just shows you should never prejudge people. Be nosy. Give everybody a shot because you never know where you're going to meet a friend or meet somewhere in the middle and build bridges versus walls. And that's what happened. I mean, you had every race of people in this podcast, every class structure, Republicans and Democrats, blacks and whites, rich and poor, billionaire, and somebody trying to buy some air. And it was just really, really inspiring. And he was there to promote his new book, which is, I would tell you, fantastic. I'm reading it now. And I was there for my podcast, but also my new book, Capitalism for All. And he wrote a book with his father. And I wrote a book with my spiritual father, Ambassador Andrew Young, his father Charles Koch. The book, his book is called Becoming a Principled-Driven Leader by Charles Koch and Chase Koch. And my book is Capitalism for All by me and forward by Ambassador Andrew Young. I also put him on the phone with Ambassador Young. Ambassador Young really liked him as well. And we would find it hard to agree to argue on something. I mean, we found ourselves in massive agreement on things that really matter and it inspired me like maybe we can bring this country back together. Anyway, I want you to watch the podcast and listen to it for yourself and make your own determination. But I think it's going to make you cheer for the country to feel like we're not hopeless to see that people still listen, even the most powerful in the world listen because his dad who's now I think 90, who's brilliant obviously for running, built, and by the way, and you'll hear about challenges they've had in their own family. I mean, they sued each other, not Chase and his father, but the brothers and whatever. They almost destroyed this empire over power and money and other things. So, everybody's got problems. Everybody's got drama. But life is about how you deal with that. How do you come out on the other side? How do you punch through? Rainbows only follow storms. You cannot have a rainbow without a storm first. And what drives that? What centers that? And for them, for Chase and his dad, it's the last men standing so to speak in the company are principles and values. And so this book, Principled-Driven Leadership, they have 41 principles and they even have an app, it's called the Principle Companion. I've downloaded it and you should pull up the app, it's pretty cool and it has all of the principles and you can ask questions like what are you trying to solve and how do you solve it? And you can literally just type in your question. It says overcome your problems by taking principled action and use the principles that they have outlined. None of which you'll have any problem with. They're all just really good common sense things very much like things I talked to you about and 100% nonpartisan, non-political, non-drama to help you just move your life forward. As I say, PhDs are good and PhDs are better. So download the app. That's free. Get the book. I'm endorsing it. Yes, I said endorsing it. It's a good book. And I think I've got a new friend. Like, I really like this guy, Chase. Like, he stuck with me. So, this is going to be a longer podcast than normal, particularly with this little intro. But, I think you'll be inspired, fascinated. You'll learn something about business, learn something about building something, growing something, making something, sustaining something, working through problems, admitting you're not perfect, falling forward, punching through to your greater version of yourself through principles and values that are timeless. We were there with this great NFL pro, Demario. He's also written I think a forward for this new book or he's one of the endorsers for this new book from Chase and he's a friend of Chase's and he's got his own story. Yeah, be inspired, be encouraged and this is part of money and wealth because this is a wealth mindset that we all need to get. There's some things that he said that inspired me and I learned from and yeah, hope it inspires you, too. Let's go. This is John Hope Bryant, Money and Wealth. And let me introduce you to my new friend, Chase Koch.

Demario, come on, give him some love. You know that the Bible says, 'Be hot or be cold.' Hey. Hey, mommy. Bible. Bible says, 'Be hot or be cold. If you're lukewarm, I'll spew you out.' Translation: Even God is not like mediocrity. You're going to do something, do it with both feet or don't do it at all. I didn't have any idea what this group would look like when because we have, you know, I've been in the back running my mouth. Before I do anything, let me acknowledge my beautiful wife who everybody thinks is my daughter. Shadra Bryan, can you stand up? Shadra, that's her mom and dad. So look, this is Ambassador Young, who wanted to be here, but he had a speech at 94 years of age. He had a speech in Monterey. But he talked to Chase on the phone about an hour ago, and he likes him, by the way. But Ambassador Young has a quote, 'Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous.' And I had no idea what this is going to look like. But as I come out and I see this, this is America. I mean, look around you. This is exactly what we should want in every room in America. Every race, every place, every space, gender. And so it's a really beautiful and elegant way to start this conversation. Just so you know, this is going to be on my Money and Wealth podcast. So it'll go around the world, but we're going to ignore that. Have a natural conversation. I want to introduce Demario Davis, who any sports aficionado already knows is a legend, a linebacker, and team captain, which means he was a leader. New Orleans Saints, that's what he's most known for, a founder, a devoted Dreamers Foundation. His wife is also here, who's also his, I thought was his daughter. Demario Davis is a five-time All-Pro linebacker and six-time team captain currently with the New York Jets. He is one of the NFL's most respected leaders on and off the field. He and his wife founded Devoted Dreamers Foundation in 2013 and running youth leadership academies, mentorship programs, and community development initiatives across New Orleans. He has been nominated three times for the Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year Award and the league's highest individual honor. He contributed the forward and endorsement to Becoming a Principled-Driven Leader. Demario is a good brother. Honored to have you with us and I want your hair.

Thanks for having me, brother.

And they met in 2019, these two. Chase Koch is my brother from another mother. I really like this dude. Most, I mean, I'm going to just say the obvious. Most billionaires and billionaire kids, the children of, are sort of jerks because life just comes too easy and he's just so normal and approachable and kind. And here's the most important part, authentic. I met him and I can't say where we met because there's no website for this meeting, but I met him in the middle of the country and I walked up to him and I just started talking to him and we had an instant comfort and I said, 'You're just so abnormal because you're normal.' And what I meant by that is what I said earlier that people who are insecure and uncomfortable with themselves and who are impressed with themselves spend a lot of time walking around with sunglasses on at night. And he has no need for any of that. He's just reasonably comfortable in his own skin. And I was fascinated how he formed his own personality in the midst of this entirely overwhelming legacy. And I'm going to read you his bio, but just to give you some context of what he had to overcome to become himself, his dad is reportedly worth just his dad about 70 billion. Now that means he's baller adjacent. And it'd be very easy just to fold in and to become somebody else's personality. And I just want to say in public in front of everybody, I think you're a really cool guy.

So, here's the official, official introduction. Chase Koch is the co-author of Becoming a Principled-Driven Leader and the fact that you and your dad like each other is also extraordinary. You, the audience, really needs to loosen up. Hey Curly. 41 principles to build an enduring business which is from Simon and Schuster. The book draws on 60 years of real world experience at one of America's largest private companies. So nobody really knows what it's worth actually, which I think is pretty cool. Chase is the founder of Koch Disruptive Technologies within Koch, which I love that, and served as executive vice president of origination and partnerships at the parent company. Georgia has a second largest company presence in the country within the company. Approximately 8,000 employees across Koch businesses including Georgia-Pacific, Flint Hills Resources, Infor, and Vista Guardian, Koch Engineering Solutions. You get the gist. It's a lot. And I didn't, well, first of all, I feel a little similarity with you because my play father is 94, Ambassador Andrew Young, and your dad, and he's a legend in the world. Your dad's 90ish.

And they both live for something larger and more important than themselves. And they both have this humility that they're willing to admit they're wrong. And I didn't really feel in your family a few years ago because of what I thought I knew. And then I heard them course correcting themselves. I like, 'Oh, that's somebody I can get with.' And to me, it's how somebody manages failure and not just success that defines their personality. So let's now get to that and then tomorrow you just jump into this whenever you feel so inclined. So talking about failure, this is extraordinarily interesting to me. You fired yourself as an executive within the company. What principles gave you the courage to do that? You fired yourself within your own family company.

Anybody who's unfamiliar, Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass in the 1800s had this unique, sometimes troubled friendship, constructive friction and they didn't agree on a lot of stuff but Lincoln learned from Frederick Douglass and ultimately became his strongest adviser and it appears your dad has learned from you. Yeah. And has opened up and become, I mean he seems to be like an endless learner now. And tomorrow, we were in the back talking, the three of us were talking about what really matters, how you got connected, how we got connected. And by the way, I really think this is the future of America right here. Because we may not agree on everything, but we agree on the most important things. And we're focused on what we agree on versus what we don't. And one thing I'm going to throw out here as I ask you about your relationship with our friend and can somebody bring me the book? I want to promote the book. I actually like the book. There's 41 principles in the book. Everybody should know. Somebody bring the book. I'm going to put it.

I don't want anybody taking my book. I don't want anybody taking my copy of the book. Thank you very much. And this is the real boss here, by the way. Yeah.

So in the back I said that in a relationship 2 plus 2 should equal 6, 8, or 10. If you're not better together what are you doing? And a giver and a giver is exotic. A giver and a taker is neurotic. And a taker and a taker is psychotic. And most of our relationships are the last two. And it appears that you and your dad have, you like me and Ambassador Young, Ambassador Young and I, we like each other and respect each other. He allows me to disagree with him. You and your dad seem to have that good relationship and you like each other and you respect each other. You and I have had wide-ranging conversations. I'm going to just say it right here. I've intentionally sort of messed with you. I've intentionally...

You just wanted to see who you were, you know, you can confirm you are who you are and I loved it and we have not had one uncomfortable conversation with you and we've talked about a lot of stuff and none of it was edited or prepped or there was nobody else around us, you know. And my guess is and I want you tomorrow to frame this in your own words, your experience from a completely different perspective, he passed your test.

Well, all of it helped me to really understand this thing of mutual benefit that you guys talked about, Frederick Douglass and Abraham Lincoln. When you really look at their friendship, Abraham Lincoln couldn't win the war without Frederick Douglass because he needed those black soldiers and he had the voice to him.

That's right.

And Frederick Douglass couldn't end slavery without Abraham Lincoln because he had the power and access. How I even got into this space long before I met Chase and Charles Koch.

And by the way, businessman in his own right, an investor. I mean, much more than an NFL pro. This is a really, really...

Listen, we up here talking about mutual benefit. I don't know what mutual benefit they getting from me. I'm getting a bunch of wisdom from these guys.

I just sat in the back. I wish I had my notebook out. Can I just turn AI over my record?

No, he's way more than the cool factor. He's got that too, of course. But like the book Becoming a Principled-Driven Leader, from what knowing Demario the last 6 years, there's like no better example of a principled-driven leader and someone that's constantly thinking about the world whether it's his craft with sports or helping others through the lens of these principles and I wanted to make sure the world hears because he is an example.

Well, thank you for having me. So when my journey started was in the country streets of Mississippi. My grandmother had 10 kids. My mama was the youngest and it was pretty much a single mother raising me in between my mom and my grandmother. And that's where I learned a lot of principles on humility, putting people first and all these things. And though I played sports, my mom also had me reading books and doing all these different things. So by the time I got to high school and got a chance to get a scholarship, what I noticed was the first time I saw a separation between me and my peers. I was going to take the ACT and I was scoring 24, 27 and I didn't really study and my friends were trying to get scholarships but they were scoring 13s and 14s. So that just stuck with me. That was the first time I saw an abnormality. I didn't know what was going on. I mean we did everything together. So by the time I got to college and then going on to make pros, I always wanted to have a solve for that gap. And I realized that a lot of those guys were struggling with reading comprehension I would later find out. And so it really was just about me making it to a place and saying I didn't do anything different than my peers. Not much. I made a lot of the same bad decisions, did all these things not right but here I am in a place and I always said I think God brought me to this place because he knew I would go back. And so it was about what could I do to create a solution? That's what Devoted Dreamers was birthed. Me and my beautiful bride right here of 14 years, this beautiful black angel right here on the front row. We started that in 2013. And it really was just to have a solve for a problem that I had experienced in my life that I had solved. Well, years later, I get a chance to hear about, learn about Stand Together at a Super Bowl event. I had been part of Players Coalition. We had got a chance to continue to do that human thing just looking out for people. I meet him at an event and I read up a little bit about Stand Together. I hear about the principles that they say, bottom-up empowerment and I'm looking at this gigantic empire. With all this access to resources, people capital, all these different things. Well, if you guys live out these principles that many people know on the bottom in these places of power and I didn't really know Chase and Charles at the time. I walked up to him the first day. I shook his hand. I said, 'Hey, if you guys live out these principles, it's going to work.' What shocked me was I was just saying in general if you live out these principles, going to help people with organizations, small organizations that are doing it right, those people closest to the problem are the closest to the solution, if you go empower these organizations, going to work. Within a couple of weeks they were sitting down with me and my wife, what are you guys doing at Devoted Dreamers, how can we help? With pen and pad and trying to figure out how they could supercharge and 100x us. And that work hasn't stopped and that is who he is, that's who his father is, that's who the organization is, that's who the community is, and that's why we've been premier partners with Stand Together since then.

Yeah. So, let me back up a little bit. So, great testimony to Demario for what we've said earlier which is authenticity for Chase. But I didn't know everybody else. So, I knew Chase. I thought he was cool. But the Stand Together group, Brian Hooks, he's really quiet, you know, the guy who runs it. And I'm trying, he's checking me out. I'm checking him out. You know, are you real? He's asking, I'm sure he's asking the same question about me. I said to somebody earlier, Brian Hooks is like a slow burn. He just keeps staring at you until he makes up his mind. Then it's all in. Anyway, so I'm just used to people trying to play games with me and so I'm waiting there for the shoe to drop on the conversation. You know, by the way, look at it. Charles has donated like $8 billion to charity. They've endowed Stand Together. I didn't know this until later and was one of our largest, I call it nonprofit venture capitalists in the country and I'm just waiting for this to be like some partisan drama, you know, and it's just the drama never comes. I'm sitting there having these meetings and meetings, I'm telling my people like, you know, we don't play these games. We're just right down the middle and they're like, John, it's pretty much what you see is what you get. And we entered into a partnership with them. It's been very successful. And all I can tell you is it's the real thing. It's transparent. It's straight, straight, no chaser. And to me, that says who your dad's character is. And you and the whole family right now more than anything else is what Stand Together is doing among, I mean, it's one of the biggest national platforms of philanthropy in action that I've seen in the country. And I encourage people to access it. And I can say without a flinch that it is the real deal. And right now we need real deals and we need, you know, rainbows only follow storms, people. You cannot have a rainbow without a storm first. It's a scientific fact. Also, we're living in a moment in history. Right now, I call it the third reconstruction. First one was freedom, civil war. Second one, Frederick Douglass, Abraham Lincoln. Second one was civil rights movement. By the way, all three of those movements rooted here in Atlanta. Civil War ended in Atlanta. The March to the Sea, the Battle of Atlanta and that was Black and White together, by the way, Republican and Democrat together. That got Lincoln reelected, little is known, the battle here. Then the civil rights movement for which my mentor Andrew Young of course was right in the middle of that with Dr. King. Bernice King, I believe, might be here somewhere, by the way. She said she was coming tonight and who's still doing her dad's work and that was black and white together, Republican and Democrat together. But it was a difficult time for the country and we were trying to figure out who we were going to be when we grew up. And I think the third reconstruction is about ownership from the streets to the suites. And the color is not black or white or red or blue. It's green, economic green. And the country once again is having on the 250th anniversary of America an identity crisis, one huge colonic. You audience, you guys are really tough. This is some good stuff I'm giving you and it's one huge family fight and we're going to get through it. We're going to be better together. We're going to stand together. But I think we got to come back to each other after we've gone so far out. Come back to each other with some common sense principles to help people prosper together. I guess the question is if this is a third reconstruction, if this is a moment in history, and if the only way we succeed to be the light on the hill, the biggest economy in the world for 50 more years, because if we don't get this act together, we speaking Mandarin in 20 years. You get that? Like everybody wants to be an American but Americans and no one can win in a fair fight. We got to give this away. So we got to stop arguing with each other and find Stand Together and find some common ground and build an economy together with all groups of people. I guess I want to know because Koch had 9,000, is some crazy thing like 9,000 turns of growth since 1960. It's unbelievable. But defined really these values, defined more from his failures than his successes. What people don't know is that the family had a huge blowup and fell apart and sued each other and had to come together and your dad was not feeling good about that for a few years because it was personal to him. But these values rooted and I think if we can find some values from these 41 that Demario and I and everybody here, you know, Phil Ward over here who's running a business, all these businessmen and women, if we can find a way to root ourselves in shared values that even when the tree, when the storms come, we're still rooted in something that brings us together and keeps us together. What jumps out from either of you from this book that are things that are practical and literally and I, you know, I have a book out right now that's a bestseller, but I wasn't smart enough to do what he did. If I was going to reprint this, I'd steal his idea. What page is this where the graph is? This thing is amazing.

I mean, this is, here we go. This is just brilliant. Literally all 41 principles just laid out and I don't, you know, and there's not one of these I disagree with by the way.

Sure. Grab a couple.

What is it?

Guys, just get the book and if you don't do anything else, just go to the back where it goes through all the principles one by one.

If you don't have time to read the whole book, if you just go and sit with a principle a day, it's going to change your life. But two of those, so contribution motivated and preferred partnership.

So for me, I was contribution motivated at the time when I started Devoted Dreamers. It was how can I contribute to society something that doesn't exist. And then there was this word around innovative education. And then when preferred partnership, what preferred partnership is is someone that has shared value, shared vision and complementary capabilities. That's what Stand Together has 10x and close to 100x our work with Devoted Dreamers. Well, all we wanted to do was holistic development around students and now we have the ability to reach the entire country just because of different schools. We all over the country. My wife is traveling more than me now going and visiting with different schools. We have an app that's getting ready to come online that are teaching kids this five-strand model that we started in 2013. If we didn't have the preferred partnership, we wouldn't be able to do that. So, you have to be okay with working with people who don't look like you, people who don't have the same things as you, a different skill, and be able to make those connections. And when you do that, it allows you to accelerate your impact at rapid rates and have more influence or affluence that you would have originally thought you could have imagined. And so that's what I would say is the key for our country going forward is people having a contribution mindset. How can I contribute to society but then forming unlikely partnerships with people on different sides of the track. And if you can create that, it's going to accelerate and it's going to bring our country together.

From a leadership standpoint within the NFL and helping so many NFL players, like, you know, there's beyond the game, what are we going to do? How can I help you succeed whether it's in business or in philanthropy? What do you want to do with...

Yeah. That's what has happened is we become friends. We hang out now and so we get a chance to connect and we co-create. So that's what's happened with the philanthropic locker room. We co-created that Stand Together and us and other athletes, we co-created this. How can we serve athletes of today? Well, athletes can't sustain their impact most of the time when they're done playing if they don't put the right system, structures, and partners around. And so we put together complimentary capabilities again and we came up with something. But that was a principle from bottom-up empowerment and this understanding that those closest to the problem aren't the problem. Those are the solutions. The leadership team that Stand Together, we have more that are here today. They sat down with athletes, got on phone calls and said, 'What are the issues? What are the pain points? How can we fix them?' And that humility allowed for vast change to happen in our game. And what we're doing inside the NFL is looking to be modeled in the NBA and MLB.

That's very sad.

So if that's your attitude, who do you look for to fix your problems?

Questioning capitalism itself and free enterprise.

I want to, yes, agreed, and to both what both of you said. Deario, excellent comments. And by the way, thanks for reminding me, Deario, about the back of the book for anybody with ADD, just go to page 245. It summarizes all the rules. I want to come back, Chase, to you as an example because people again, people look at your life, to a lesser degree, they look at my life, Mario's life, and they, 'Oh, these guys have got it. It's perfect. Everything's perfect.' Well, I can't relate to that. And I talk about the challenges so that people realize we're human beings. I wish my friend Bernice was here for me to brag on her in person. Again, she called today specifically saying she was going to be here, but I know she was coming back from I think it was Birmingham or some place doing some civil rights work, but she could have so easily just gotten either into depression or just become a stamp out of somebody else's image, but she's stuck with that name, King. You have this name, Koch. And I was fascinated and I'm still fascinated with how normal you are. What was that barrier? What was the obstacle, the barrier, the challenge that you had to bust through to get comfortable with yourself that the audience might take some inspiration from? What is that failure, that insecurity that you had to punch through so you just weren't up...

I'm going to thank you for being, thank you for that openness. Brother Deario, I'm going to come back to you. I want you to pick a principle that defines that pivot point for you that the audience can take inspiration from. As we come to the conclusion of the formal structure, I'm going to actually do something because it's my podcast and I can, I'm going to ask the audience if they have a question or two. By the way, I want to give Curly, Curly Dossman, a lot of love. He runs the foundation. He represents very well, extraordinary human being and a great leader in Atlanta. So, I'm going to take a couple questions from the audience if you have it. So, think about that. Hey Sam. But question from you as you think about your point. I want everybody to pick up like one principle that is like really important to you from the book that is the signature for you. But Chase, if you ever noticed, we're black. I don't know if anybody else noticed. And with a lot of my, I live in two worlds. I live in the streets and the sweets. And I'm constantly moving between these worlds and often I have to translate and I got to be bilingual and I find very few people who are multilingual. Michael Milken I don't need a translate for. Tony Wester I don't need to translate for but the older they've seasoned and they've really made an intention to be normal and all that. How did you get so comfortable around brothers? I mean is it the music? What the hell? I know you listen to cool music.

Let me rave on him for a little bit and I'm going to answer your question about what principle stands out the most. So when I hang around Chase I feel like I'm two-color not blind. I mean he has a, he is a gatherer. He makes a melting pot, one of the most beautiful melting pots that you ever seen. Like I've gone to a few events that he's hosted. I mean, you got people from every imaginable background, no matter ethnicity, color, orientation over here, political belief over here, religious belief over here, crazy story over here, worst story over here, all in one room. And when it really comes alive is when he plays music with the group. You hear the most unique sound. I'm in New York right now. I think one of the most beautiful sound is Brooklyn Tabernacle in the church because all these different nationalities are singing and they worshiping where it's supposed to go. But the sound that they make with that band, I mean, from the instruments and the sound coming together, but it really shows what his superpower is, his ability to gather people. So, walking in a room like this is nothing for him. He thinks I'm the one that's actually playing the music if the other guy actually. But this what Deario is saying is like that like my north star is to unite people around solutions that empower people that are disruptive.

Amen. And that's why I'm here. The reason why I left football practice today, got on a plane and flew down here. Though I love Chase, though I love Charles, I live these principles, but it's not about this book and it's not about these principles. It's about you. That's why I came in the room. It's about you. For anything to work in our society, it begins with you. Nobody else. It begins with you. God created everybody in this room with inherent value. He created that. It's in you. And the world needs your contribution. You have to have a contribution mindset. We all have to have a contribution mindset. What contribution can you make to society? That's the first part. The second part is people need to see a pathway that they can go and make that contribution. If there are barriers that exist and people want to try, it's going to lead to learned helplessness. Meaning, I try, but I keep getting shocked by defense. And that's where we come together using our complimentary capabilities to remove those barriers for people. And the last piece, and this is what's great about being an American, you have to have a resilient attitude. You will get knocked down. It will be things that you try that you will fail and you will fail horrendously. It could be at work. It could be in relationships. It could be as parenting. It could be anywhere. But you have to get back up. And so I know we in dark times right now, but trouble don't last always. That's what the creator say. But what's going to matter is what we do when we come out of the other side of the dark time. Are we going to be a people with more hope or people with less hope? And I got here, I came here for this to make sure that this room walk out of that tunnel with more hope. And I cannot do it without each and every one of you. So I'm grateful to be here talking about the country.

Reverend Deario, the church was happening now. What have you done for me lately? Did you have a point you want to make from the book?

The principle is self-actualize. Number five, self-actualize. It was what he spoke about earlier. What these gentlemen are doing in their life, they're being the best versions of themselves. But this only going to go so far. We need everyone to be the best version of themselves. Self-actualize. And it takes all of us. It takes a contribution mindset. It takes pathways where the barriers are removed. And it takes a resilient mindset to do that.

You're a bad brother, man.

Amen. Have you guys enjoyed tonight? Now, we can end this right now and have a great evening. You want to hear a question or two? All right. And by the way, anybody was not clear on whether Chase was a brother or not. Just look at those boots you got over. I want those boots.

Yes. This beautiful lady. Say your name.

Courtney.

Who? Who? Who? Love you, babe. Who? Who? Yes. Good job, Courtney. You make him cool. Great.

Leona, she runs one of the most important business organizations here in Atlanta, Atlanta Business League.

Houston. Yeah.

So, a couple of things. Well, and I'll make it brief, John. I met either your father or your uncle when you first came to Atlanta. Curly hosted a reception at Georgia Pacific. And I recall going in and there were a ton of people that were walking in front of me and everyone was talking shop, you know, business, business. It was just, I'm sure he was tired of it. But anyway, I said to him, 'You're one of two people I know from Kansas.' And he said, 'Who is that?' I said, 'Dorothy and Charles McAfee.' And I don't know if you know Charles McAfee, McAfee Architects, but in a few minutes he shared with me that his son did not want to be a part of the business and that he was working as an EMT at Grady. Is that you or your cousin?

But interestingly enough, based upon what you've said tonight, I see there's a theme. You all had to find your own way. And I think that's powerful. And John, I want to thank you for bringing him here tonight because it really helped me to see another side of what I thought I knew, which you talked about. I thought I knew, too. But I appreciate it and thank you. Continue to do the great work. Thank you.

And I just, there's no question. Just keep doing what you're doing and I like what I hear and thank you. And Curly, that's great. Jatherine, the entire team back there representing the Koch company. Well, and for the sake of the audience around the world, say your full name, your...

Leona Bar Davenport. I'm president and CEO of the Atlanta Business League.

Yes. Oh, wonderful. Can I make a comment?

Yes, for sure. Your idea might have been completely different. That's right. Have enough courage to say, 'No, Dad. I'm not doing that.'

I want to let everybody know I believe it's true that everybody tonight gets a copy of Becoming a Principled-Driven Leader. They get a copy and I believe you get a copy of Capitalism for All, my bestselling book. By the way, Chase and I were, I've read his book, he's read my book, or since we're reading each other's books and we're so busy and we found enormous commonality. We found very few things to argue about. We actually were tripping over each other like complimenting each other saying, 'Oh, I believe that too.' It's amazing what happens when you talk to somebody. God gives you two ears and one mouth. So you listen twice as much as you talk. People just need to shut up and listen these days. Shut up and listen and ask somebody their actual opinion versus presuming and assuming based on what you've read or what you've heard, what you think you know about the other person. And I am so glad that I just nosy and got up all in your face and fortunate to be my friend. We have a last question here or maybe we have one or two questions. Okay. Yes, right here.

Hi, my name is Terry Matthews Woodall. This is my husband, Lee. I have a question for you. You actually touched a little bit. There are seasons in our lives as entrepreneurs where success doesn't necessarily align with our purpose. Have you ever felt disconnected where success that you're having is disconnected from your purpose? And what principle in your book would you apply to that?

By the way, Chase, I'm also a lousy operator and I'm a like chief inspiration officer. Chief aspiration officer. Chief tree shaker. And one of my operators is right there, Brian Best, my president, chief financial officer. He does a great job. And I know what I'm not good at. Well, I can be good at if I wanted to. I don't want to. I was average at it. And I mean, Demario, jump in here if you want to with any of this. If you have something, I'm not sure there's anything you're not good at. I've seen you before.

Well, to answer her question, and I think this is where Charles will really come alive for this as I've had a chance to kind of sit down with him. The principle that this is, actually something he just turned me on in the book, is a life of meaning and synergy. That's the principle. And so, he put me on a book by Viktor Frankl with one line and it was if someone has a means to live but no meaning for which they live, then they're going to be off. And so I don't see those two as, and I don't think what the principle will point to is those two aren't mutually exclusive. They need to be synergetic. So you see him living it out with all the success of Koch Industries and everything that he's achieved in his life but also with this purpose of moving through life and pouring in the principles. Nobody would care about the principles if he hadn't had the success that he had. And so you see those two kind of coming together. For me my purpose is being a human potential unlocker. So yeah, I've been able to have success at the highest level on the football field, but that's just the platform. And people wouldn't care for me to come in and unlock their potential if I hadn't had the success that I was put here to have. So those two kind of go hand in hand. I need the success, but I'm not fulfilled if I'm not unlocking people's potential. And so that's the principle that were pointed to, but it's infused in the entire book. It's infused in all the principles being lived out. You know, Deario, as you're talking, Chase, Deario, as we're talking...

By the way, his answer was a hell of a lot better than mine. And mine. It sounded better, too. He hit the nail on the head. Nail on the head. If you think about as we started this, as we're ending this conversation, I think there's one more question, by the way. Wrap it. As we end this where we started it, I said there's three types of relationships. There's a giver and a giver. And that's exotic. A giver and a taker. And that's neurotic. And a taker and a taker. And that's psychotic. And just in talking, what you keep saying is you're just pouring. You're giving. And as you're giving, yes, you're receiving, but you're focused on the giving. And that's just a natural leader. And the humility and the authenticity. People trust that. They want to follow that. And I think that's a real mark of a great leader. Both of you. I'm proud to call you friends in the fight to do what's right. I'm going to end with a Michael Milken quote who is a forward in one of the forwards in my book along with Ed Bastian, Ambassador Young. He said that intelligence is equally distributed but opportunity is not. And so he spends his life trying to level the playing field on opportunity. And that's what each and every one of you hopefully leaves here wanting to do is to level the playing field. To whom much is given, much is required. If you succeeded, and I'm looking at each one of you now. Public service is the price you pay for the success you've achieved. You didn't get here by yourself. You didn't get here by yourself. I'm looking at a man right here. I've never met him before. I'm looking right now. Just raise your hand. You look, I'm standing you right now. Yeah. Yes. Raise your hand. You met somebody and I know we got to wrap this up. You met somebody when you were a young man. You're a businessman, corporate guy. You met somebody. You saw somebody as a young man, a man, and you said, 'My god, I can do that.' Yes or no? You see, you said yes. We've never met this young man right here. You were, when you were coming up in business as a corporate executive, you met somebody. You saw a man and you said, 'I can do that, too. I think I can do that.' And then somebody gave you a shot, gave you a job, interns, what? Yes or no? I'm a mind reader. No, this is just, I mean this is human experience. None of us got here by ourselves. So lean back and help somebody else. You think you're helping them, you're really helping yourself. Thank you all for being here for Money and Wealth podcast. You get a free book. When you leave, make sure you shake hands with these two individuals. But I have one last special strange request. Say hello to somebody you don't know. Meet somebody who makes you a little uncomfortable because 2 plus 2 has to equal 6, 8, or 10. I want you to leave here a little uncomfortable which make you a lot better. We are better together when we stand together. Ladies and gentlemen, say thank you.